Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures
But modern electronics don't experience that. You have a chip that runs at 35C (idle) ramping from room temperature to operating spec. That is stress, no? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures
It is stress, yes. But so is *operating* at 35C. And the latter occurs far more than the former. On 4/9/07, Eric S. Sande [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But modern electronics don't experience that. You have a chip that runs at 35C (idle) ramping from room temperature to operating spec. That is stress, no? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures
You don't leave your car on all night do you? Actually I don't have a car, I ride a bicycle :-). Yes, the device is designed to operate at certain temperatures; it's also designed to be *turned on and off* without failing. Of course. I don't dispute that. But the question related to is it better to leave it turned on. I say yes, it is better for the devices and if you are running [EMAIL PROTECTED] you will get more credit. Moving parts, OTOH, such as fans and disk drives, can be said to have x hours of life to them, and they will fail when they reach that point. Leaving a machine off overnight _will_ extend their lives. Well, on that point you are theoretically right. But in actual fact the mechanical parts are so reliable that you can expect many years of reliable use out of them. So it makes no sense to switch off to extend their life. - Original Message - From: Tony B [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures I understand your point. I'm just saying there's no hard evidence to back up the assertion equating this to an increased failure rate in non-filament items. And all kinds of evidence that failures occur *during use* all the time. Yes, the device is designed to operate at certain temperatures; it's also designed to be *turned on and off* without failing. Moving parts, OTOH, such as fans and disk drives, can be said to have x hours of life to them, and they will fail when they reach that point. Leaving a machine off overnight _will_ extend their lives. You don't leave your car on all night do you? On 4/9/07, Eric S. Sande [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is stress, yes. But so is *operating* at 35C. And the latter occurs far more than the former. No, the device is designed to operate at 35C. It is also designed to operate at higher temperatures, but not beyond a maximum at load depending on the chip. My point is that the initial switch on is the hardest thing that the chip and the system has to deal with in terms of operational stress. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures
Moving parts, OTOH, such as fans and disk drives, can be said to have x hours of life to them, and they will fail when they reach that point. Leaving a machine off overnight _will_ extend their lives. This is always an interesting question because both answers are correct. Turn-on causes failures and wear causes failures. Hence the best answer is in the middle. If you are not going to use a device for 8 to 10 hours, turn it off. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
[CGUYS] Lightning [Was: Speeding Up XP]
First of all, telephone loops aren't grounded. We were hit by lightning in 1998 and it fried all of the phones. There were burn marks coming out of the jacks, no kidding. When we recently remodeled I found a carbon block arrestor on my phone line. I replaced it with a solid state model for about $35. Somewhere I read about how far into the house the voltage spike will travel based on the clamping time of the arrestor. The electronic model limited it to just a few feet. The old arrestor let the surge travel over 100 feet -- not too useful. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Speeding Up XP [Was: Vista Memory Needs
Analogy: A surge protector is like a bucket that the surge energy is dumped into. [The excess electrical energy is turned into heat by the surge protector.] After the surge is over, the bucket is emptied, [the surge protector cools down] but if you look closely, a small amount of the rim of the bucket has been burned away [the surge protector is slightly damaged with each surge], and it doesn't hold quite as much. Not all surge protectors have the same size bucket. Some are too small. Normal surges are like a cup of energy; bigger surges are like a quart or even a gallon of energy. A lightening strike is like a tanker truck of energy dumped into the bucket. The bucket is so small in comparison, that it's swamped; [the heat energy raises the temperature of the surge protector way beyond what it can cope with] it doesn't matter if it's there or not. Many years ago I witnessed a laboratory demonstration of the power of lightning. They rigged up a very high voltage spark (a shadow of a real lightning bolt) and had it jump to a block of wood. In an instant, the spark jumped and the block of wood was just gone. In that instant, all of the moisture in the wood was turned into steam, and the steam just shattered the wood into dust. Not to burst your bubble, but in my personal experience surge protectors are worthless for lightning strikes. Our home was hit by lightning in 2003 and at least one piece of equipment was fried on (a) the AC line, (b) the phone line, and (c) the cable TV. Not sure where the jolt actually came into the house but it fused a phone line (physically welded the conductors)knocking out a couple of telephones and a fax machine, wiped out the cable box (no connection to the phone system) in the family room, and fried my WiFi access point (connected to a cable modem that suffered no damage -- go figure). And all the affected gear except the telephone handset was on a surge protector. -Mike -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Announcements and Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:26 PM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Speeding Up XP [Was: Vista Memory Needs Not so sure about it being a good idea that personal machines run around the clock. Besides the --- waste of electricity My brother and I have different takes on this. He is a power off guy, I'm a power on guy. Since day one I've always run 24/7 with all my electronics. In the tube days it made sense to switch off, but then you had to wait for the set to warm up. --- greatly increased exposure to corruption from power fluctuations and network baddies Not with a hardware firewall and a good UPS. --- 24/7 operation brings on the inevitable failure of $10 cooling fans which then can cook your chip Possibly a valid point. However, the most stressful moment for electronics is the initial power cycle (i. e., turning it on). The only real danger that I can see with an always on condition is lightning strikes. Overvoltage conditions, in other words. But we have surge protectors for that. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] changing the subject line
Well we'll get the windows users to change he subject to make it easier for the mac users to keep up. NP there. Mike On 4/9/07, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much does it cost to change a subject line? I ask because some members seem to be getting awfully lazy lately. Easy to do for Macs. I think this is primairly a Windows problem. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Speeding Up XP [Was: Vista Memory Needs
On 4/9/07, Lowe, Michel D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to burst your bubble, but in my personal experience surge protectors are worthless for lightning strikes. Lightning is pretty darn powerful, that's for sure. The other problem with home surge protectors is that you can't tell if they are good any more. My understanding is that if it protected you from some regular surges already, it may not be doing anything any more. I'm sure someone on this list can elaborate. -- John DeCarlo, My Views Are My Own * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] electronics failures
Lightbulbs and vacuum tubes give off electrons as they operate, and the filiment becomes thinner and more brittle. The construction of the filiment will determine the expected life of the bulb. Electronics are quite reliable once they have passed their 30 days 'burn-in' period. If they make it this far, they will lilkely give you years of trouble free operation. But the power supply is often the killer of the electronics. They can absorb some voltage spikes early in life. Several years later, due to weakened components from repeated voltage spikes, they will begin to allow some of the spike to pass through to the electronics, damaging the electronics. This is why I use a surge protector with all my delecate electronics... to extend the life of the power supply as well as the electronics. Heat (and extream cold) is another enemy of electronics.. weakens the solder joints... that has already been discussed. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] Lightning [Was: Speeding Up XP]
- Original Message - From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] When we recently remodeled I found a carbon block arrestor on my phone line. I replaced it with a solid state model for about $35. I supplemented mine with a 3 stage ($69) surge protector at the entry point to my house 15 years ago after an incident that literally smoked my modem and several phones. I heard the thunder about 4 seconds later, indicating that the lightning strike was quite far away. Since the upgrade, I have not lost any phones or modems to phone line surges. (I realize that this would be useless in a direct hit.) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
