date:19990109


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.netspace.net.au/~mrg/hempcon.html

During my research in June1996, I was reading a book titled, 'Hemp -
Lifeline to the Future', by Chris Conrad, and I was overwhelmed by the sheer
number of commercial and industrial applications of hemp. These applications
included textiles, paper, valuable Medicines, food for humans and animals,
fuel, and an untapped resource of biomass energy. We have a planet with
dwindling, limited resources, and we are still gouging out mines and bores
for energy supplies which are killing us. Car fumes daily poison the air for
Billions of people in cities each day. The EPA found that up to half of all
toxic related cancer deaths are from automobile emissions. A different fuel,
such as octane boosting, naturally anti-freezing "ethanol", reduces carbon
dioxide emissions by 30%, can be produced from a hemp crop. People with hemp
crops would have growing oil wells. Sounds fantastic doesn't it.

It doesn't sound good for everybody though. Think of the money that a
petrochemical company could stand to lose, if we stopped using all of their
synthetic products, and thoughtfully replaced them with natural hemp
alternatives.

The first disaster occurred in the United States of America, on the 2nd
August, 1937, where a tax act was passed on hemp production. This law made
the commercial and industrial applications of hemp virtually impossible.
This required citizens to pay $1000 tax on each pound of hemp purchased.
This tax act was no ordinary event. It was a masterminded scheme developed
to protect certain industries from what would have been an early death. Four
individuals have been credited in a number of resources as key conspirators
against hemp. Each of the four had a significant vested interest in the
demise of hemp, and it's commercial applications.

Harry Jacob Anslinger, headed the Federal Bureau of Narcotics from the
1930's to the 1960's, and played a key role in destroying the name and real
potential of hemp. Anslinger created his own brand of "Reefer Madness"
propaganda, which played off the fears of the uneducated American
population. Making casual links between Heroin and Marijuana use, between
those 'filthy dope smoking Mexicans' and excessive violent behavior and
crime, Anslinger was able to generate a snowball of paranoia. Once the ball
was rolling, he was soon granted more manpower and more money, allowing him
to cause more damage.

Andrew Mellon, Harry Jacob Anslinger's uncle, owned Gulf Oil, which made him
the richest man in the U.S. Mellon owned large areas of woodlands which were
being transformed into wood pulp to make paper for the Randolf Hearst
newspaper chain. Mellon lost some of his valuable woodland to Poncho Villa,
a Mexican General. This could explain some of the anti-Mexican sentiments
arising in Hearst's headlines and articles. Mexicans, African Americans, and
Asians were popular scapegoats for white America's miseries, such as
unemployment, violence, crime, and narcotic trade.

Lammant Du Pont, owner of a the large petrochemical company DU PONT, the
inventors of the synthetic fabric "nylon", would have had considerable
difficulty trying to compete with hemp's superior quality and strength
fabric, it's potential for fuel and energy resources, and many other
applications which would have been front line competitors with Du Pont's
synthetic products.

Anslinger, Mellon, Hearst and Du Pont achieved the ultimate American dream
by aiding in eliminating the opposition, allowing vested interests to be
realized in the form of a high profit margin for all involved. Such
attitudes are still reflected in contempory politics, by politicians like
Bill Clinton. Whose attitudes are vastly different to earlier American
Presidents, like George Washington, who made it law that everyone must grow
hemp. George understood the value of hemp, he knew hemp-cloth would keep
people warm throughout the cold winter, its seeds were nutritious, and it's
medicine was effective, and it's economical status valuable.

Matt Gardiner / Hemp Conspiracy images / Curriculum Vitae

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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To

[CTRL] Can anyone help?

1999-01-09 Thread Jim Condit Jr.


 -Caveat Lector-

Can anyone forward me anything on the Democratic Congressmen who took to the
floor of Congress and said that Clinton should be impeached for making war
on Iraq without COngressional approval? Thanks. Send to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks. Jim Condit Jr.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fw: [InTheShadows] U.S. preparing to hit Iraq harder

 -Caveat Lector-

Willy is at it again!!!

-Original Message-
From: Dan S [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:38 PM
Subject: [InTheShadows] U.S. preparing to hit Iraq harder

From: Dan S [EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: http://www.herald.com:80/usa/digdocs/019140.htm
-
U.S. preparing to hit Iraq harder

Response possible to attack or chemical weapons discovery

By JOHN DONNELLY
Herald Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON -- As the United States and Iraq continue skirmishing, the
Clinton administration is preparing for an escalation that would involve
air attacks against Iraq far more severe than the 70-hour Operation
Desert Fox that ended Dec. 19, according to administration officials.

Instead of pinpoint strikes, the administration is ready to carry out
sustained bombing that could last up to three weeks, said three
officials with the State Department and the National Security Council,
who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The attacks would begin if Iraq downed an American or British plane
patrolling the ``no-fly'' zones in southern and northern Iraq.

Other triggers would be if Iraqi President Saddam Hussein threatened the
Kurdish minority in northern Iraq or the neighboring Arab states of
Kuwait or Saudi Arabia, or if the administration learned the Iraqi
leader was reconstituting biological, chemical or ballistic weapons.

The use of sustained strikes would mark a more aggressive policy aimed
at overthrowing Hussein rather than simply isolating his regime, the
officials said.

Few U.S. options remain

Hussein's ability to stay in power has continually frustrated American
policymakers. Now, only a few options remain, including limited
retaliation or stepping up scenarios to overthrow Hussein. As it chooses
the latter, the administration expects a particularly difficult period
ahead.

Following the December bombings and reports this week that the CIA and
the National Security Agency had worked with United Nations weapons
inspectors to listen to conversations among Hussein's elite troops,
administration officials said the best they can expect is a less
intrusive U.N. inspection regime.

Under U.N. resolutions, Iraq must be disarmed before the lifting of
economic sanctions imposed after its invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

``We know that we are going to lose the battle on UNSCOM,'' the U.N.
Special Commission charged with disarming Iraq, one of the national
security officials said.

Richard Butler, the executive chairman of the inspection effort, is
expected to lose  his position because of questions about his
cooperation with American spies, two U.N. Security Council diplomats
said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Hazards of new policy

The new, go-it-alone policy against Hussein is not without potential
pitfalls. For one thing, it is predicated on the Iraqi leader provoking
an attack, which means letting him set the pace. For another, analysts
say, sentiment against the Americans from U.N. Security Council members
France, Russia and China will probably grow if the standoff continues.

Today, some argue, the United States is in a far worse position with
Iraq than a year ago.

``The crises are all driven by Iraq,'' said Laurie Mylorie, publisher of
Iraq News, an online newsletter that closely monitors developments
there. ``Who would have thought a year ago that UNSCOM would be gone.
That's a significant change [working] against the United States.''

But others see factors mounting against Hussein.

Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, head of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf, said
Friday that Hussein had revealed some vulnerability about security in
southern Iraq by executing key military commanders during or after the
bombing raids.

``I think there is some confusion in the ranks and some
disgruntlement,'' Zinni said, referring to Iraqi troops in the south.

--

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[CTRL] Fw: Clinton's new Hustler column

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Rputnam5 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 11:40 AM
Subject: Clinton's new Hustler column

The business of America is business.  The publishers
of Hustler magazine are only too aware of this maxim,
so they're recently engaged President Clinton to write a
new monthly column for them, entitled "Dear Mr. President ..."
This column will feature intimate letters written by and to
President Bill Clinton.

Check out the full story at --
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/9610/

Here's a selection from the satire:

"We'll begin 'Dear Mr. President ...' in our March issue," says
Nevada Lahon, Senior Editor of Hustler.  "The first few letters
will be from young women -- primarily in their late teens and
early twenties  describing what they'd like to do sexually with
and to the president.  Each will be followed by a presidential
response in which the president clarifies exactly what each girl
is talking about and why each act referred to, no matter how
explicit or blatantly sexual, will not be construed as sexual
intercourse.

Cheers,

Rob

Rob Putnam - Chicago
See my satire and news parody page at:
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/9610/

Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms
Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by:
***
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Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the
entire political-ideological spectrum.  Quarterly journal, book sales,
rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date
Lists  E-text Archive of research, intelligence, catalogs,  resources.
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Who Killed Diana?


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.scallywag.org/diana/index.html


IX - The Marwan Mystery

There is a whole other level of theory which is personally most attractive
to me but does not necessarily directly include the Super-Establishment or
any security services. It creates an entirely rather different scenario. But
each scenario would be intricately linked. I hope I have established the
simple fact that the British Old Guard had wholly disapproved of both
al-Fayed and Diana. Even if they were not directly responsible for an
assassination, it would have been remarkably convenient to them to dispose
of the Princess before she did what they considered to be further serious
damage to British interests. It is an earnest, if grim, contention of mine
that, had they have been aware of an assassination plot against either the
Fayed family or Diana, it would have been in the interests of the Old Guard
to turn a blind eye. It is therefore important to establish that the tragedy
may not have been against the Princess in particular, but could well have
been against the Fayeds themselves.

When, at 17, Dodi first came to live in London his father gave him for his
birthday his own mini-moke - and his first bodyguard. In later life, before
the royal romance, he was never seen without at least two minders. This used
to amuse people at, say, Tramps - the fashionable London night-club -
because one man would always be close to Dodi while the other prowled around
looking for threats of any kind. A table for six at the Ivy - one of his
favourite London watering holes - would always have to be accompanied by at
least two more seats for his minders. When the wars, first between al-Fayed
and Tiny Rowland over the House of Fraser, and then during al-Fayeds
celebrated public fight with the Tory government, were at their height, Dodi
may increase his personal bodyguard to four or even six. Other friends also
noted that if he lost sight of his table at any time, he would discard all
the drinks and order fresh ones. He was terrified that someone may have
spiked his drink. This was the same in Hollywood where friends would joke
about it with him. As an excuse, he would sometimes say, "my father is
involved with some very dangerous things," and once he referred to a
mysterious "kidnap attempt in Egypt when I was young." The Broccoli family
(of James Bond film fame) - close friends for years - put it down to his
"James Bond make-believe fantasies." But now, no one is so sure.

There is strong evidence to suggest that all the Fayeds lived in a constant
state of paranoia. Mohamed himself still lives in a series of fortresses,
guarded by a private army of professional minders. Paranoia or not, both
al-Fayed and his son certainly believed there was a constant threat to their
lives. In early 1998 it was alleged by a former top Harrods security man
that all the phones in the store were bugged and anything of sensitivity
was reported back to the boss. It is the same at the Ritz. This is a
positive sign of latent paranoia.

While trawling the net for leads I suddenly came across an item which looked
very familiar. And as I read through it I realised I was the original
author. I remember the story well, but had forgotten (the article was five
years old) that it had a very heavy al-Fayed connection. Enough anyway in
this narrative to diverge somewhat. I had written the article while
Scallywag was still confined to Camden in North London which, as hundreds of
thousands of tourists know, has a huge and cosmopolitan open-air market each
weekend. One section is called The Stables and was once used to house horses
overnight which during the day had pulled the barges along the Regents
Canal. The Stables had a chequered history and had changed hands several
times. Camden council had virtually given it away to a collection of artists
and craftsmen to set up workshops. By the nineties the whole market had
taken off and the real estate had become almost priceless. The entire area
around the market and canal had become vastly fashionable and such things as
old railway sheds and canal warehouses were being converted into flats at
astronomical profits. At Scallywag we set out to find out who was making all
the money. We established that The Stables had been ultimately bought by -
to us - a mystery Egyptian called Ashraf Marwan.

Virtually nothing was known about him at the time. There were a couple of
innocuous cuttings in newspaper libraries, but no real information. We did a
check at Companies House on the finance company behind the deals called
Cabra. (Companies House is the official register of any British limited
company and any such company is obliged under the law to lodge all their
official papers and accounts there). We discovered a fascinating web of
dodgy companies run by "faces" which put their names to it, but were not the
power behind the throne. Marwan - in hundreds of sheets of financial
detail - got a single cursory mention and his

[CTRL] Who Killed Diana? [2]


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.scallywag.org/diana/index.html

X - "Le Cercle"

One very positive connection which supports the theory that Marwan and his
cronies were not just tolerated but actively encouraged by the
Super-Establishment, is that they were at one stage (and almost certainly
still are) king-pins of what the establishment first called the "Safari
Club". This was an extraordinary but loose organisation which, because of
its strong anti-Communist intentions, was heavily backed by the entire
Western right wing. The Safari Club actually existed as an extraordinary and
very exclusive Afro-French club in Paris. It had a ground floor restaurant
and bar, but there was a proper club underneath which was very exclusive. By
chance in London I met a man who, when he was a student, had worked there as
a bus boy. The club itself no longer exists, but then it was decked out
exotically with such things as elephant feet as stools. The whole place
resembled a safari tent and people met by the flickering light of kerosene
lamps. My friend worked mainly in the restaurant above, but also sometimes
acted as a relief in the club itself. He said: "It was entirely eccentric in
a sinister sort of way. I knew for sure that it was ultra-right wing, and it
was always heavily conspiratorial. I was told never to recognise any of the
patrons and they would literally huddle and talk in whispers. They always
stopped talking if I was in earshot. It was an eerie place but at the time I
needed the money. I didnt really know the significance of it all until much
later when I read that Chirac had had it closed down. I didnt really
actually recognise anyone, but some of them looked familiar and they were
multi-national".

This clandestine but highly active international group in turn led to an
offspring loosely called "Le Cercle" or the Pinay Circle, which became
altogether more organised and dangerous. This was the group that the
Baroness had emphasised I should look into if I wanted to get positive clues
as to an assassination, and the more I did, the more convinced I became that
they might be implicated in some way. These people would not have smiled at
Dianas pacifist activities

The original "Safari Club" was set up by the French ultra right-winger,
Count Alexander de Maranches, who was the Director of the French Service for
External Documentation and Espionage (SDECE) during the seventies. A group
which the socialist Francois Mitterand described when he took power in
France in 1981, as "a haven of fascist hysterics and military retainers
inimical in their right to govern." A year later he abolished the SDECE and
replaced it with the Direction Generale de la Securite Exterieure (DGSE).
Under the Director, Pierre Marion, the entire French security system was
re-directed towards Industrial Espionage which wholly supported the Group
Bull, a "state-owned company which sits at the very heart of Frances
formidable military-industrial complex" (Mark Shernik). Bull, went into a
curious alliance with Honeywell, the US computer firm, with full DGSE
backing. Honeywell was the largest manufacturer of landmines. It was this
group who was to supply landmines to both sides in Bosnia.

In the seventies, when all this was being formulated under the auspices of
the Safari Club, Marwan and co. were most active. The club had originated as
a consortium formed between the secret police forces of the Shah of Iran
(SAVAK), Saddam Hussein of Iraq, Anwar Sadat of Egypt (The Marwan
connection), and the Saudi Intelligence Service headed by Kamal Adham (later
of BCCI fame). It was expressly formed to support regimes that were actively
anti-Communist and to try and put down regimes that were not. In this second
category it arranged coup detats in Central Africa, Congo, Nigeria and
Mali. Because of its nature, the group was heavily into the supply of arms.
When billion dollar contracts for arms are floating about, the Establishment
is amazingly tolerant and it was during this time that Marwan became a very
rich young man.

"Le Cercle" eventually spread its tentacles throughout the Western World,
but it started in France, as a cogent force, during the Premiership of
Antoine Pinay in 1951. Pinay attended the notorious Bilderberg meeting in
Ossterbeek, Holland in May 1954. Here he identified others of his extreme
political ilk and with the active co-operation of Jean Violet of the then
SDECE and Otto von Hapsburg, heir to the Austrian throne, he formed the
club. By the sixties their covert membership was truly astonishing. The
"inner circle" included, among many others, Nicholas Elliot, a department
head at MI6; William Colby, former controversial director of the CIA;
Colonel Botta, of Swiss Military Intelligence; Stefano Della Chiaie, a
leading member of the Italian Secret Service; Giullo Andreotti, former
Italian Prime Minister and member of P2, who, it was later proved, gave the
Italian Mafia presidential protection; General Antonio de Spinola,

[CTRL] Fw: Culling of Humanity Has Begun by Mysterious Aerial Spraying ?

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 12:28 PM
Subject: Mysterious Aerial Spraying ?

The Environmental News Service reports that in remote
regions of the U.S., fleets of jets are creating massive
grid-work contrail pattern across the sky and apparently
are also spraying some kind of substance out of their
wing tips that seems to be making people deathly ill.

The fleets of jets lay a grid-work pattern of contrails
that expand and turn a once clear sky into an overcast,
and then according to witnesses a "cobwebb" like material
falls from the sky, which seems to make people very ill.

One witness to these events goes so far as to suggest that
with the secrecy said to surround these aerial activities
and the illness they seem to induce in those on the ground,
there is secret plan in the works for a mass culling of the
human race (which United Nations population reports suggest
is too large, and the U.N.'s Universal Declaration of Human
Rights does stipulate that your right to life can be revoked
if it's deemed to be "contrary to the purposes of the U.N.")

Full story: http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jan99/1999L-01-08-05.html

Anybody know of an innocuous explanation for such spraying?
Could this be some kind of cloud-formation experimentation?
Is such formation-flying consistent with commercial-pilot
practice (which airport officials claim to be the case)?

__

I just discovered this shocking fact the other day:

The United Nations Universal Declairation of Human Rights
defines the right to revoke all human rights if and when
they are determined to be contrary to the purposes of
the U.N. as stipulated in Article 29, which states:

"These rights and freedoms may in no case
be exercised contrary to the purposes and
principles of the United Nations."

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/a_udhr.htm

So if my right to life is deemed to be contrary
to the central purpose, I may not exercise it! :(
This is a great contract! Where do I sign? Oh ya,
our government already signed us up, how sweet.

Visit Ian Williams Goddard  --  http://Ian.Goddard.net

(+)  Something can come from nothing, if, and only if,  (-)
(-)  that something is equal to nothing ((-)+(+) = 0).  (+)

"[I]n any closed universe the  negative gravitational energy
cancels the energy of matter exactly. The total energy, or
  equivalently the total mass, is precisely equal to zero."

- + - +  Dr. Alan Guth (The Inflationary Universe)  + - + -

--
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Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by:
***
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Ferndale, MI 48220), a ruling class/conspiracy research resource for the
entire political-ideological spectrum.  Quarterly journal, book sales,
rare/out-of-print searches, New Paradigms Discussion List, Weekly Up-date
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  To Discuss Ideas:
   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://msen.com/~lloyd/
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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[CTRL] Fw: Dr. Louis Jolyon West, RIP

 -Caveat Lector-

Yikes!  AP left out Dr. West's MKULTRA, CIA mind control program
leadership!  What injustice!

-Original Message-
From: FightBack2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 5:33 AM
Subject: Dr. Louis Jolyon West, RIP

 LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Dr. Louis Jolyon West, a psychiatrist and
cult expert who conducted court-ordered examinations of Jack Ruby and
Patricia Hearst, has died of cancer. He was 74.
West, who died Saturday at his home here, headed the psychiatry
department and the Neuropsychiatric Institute at the University of
California at Los Angeles for 20 years. He retired in 1989, but remained
active in research and mentoring students.
West began studying torture and brainwashing during the Korean
War, and eventually expanded his research to include post-traumatic
stress syndrome, alcohol and drug abuse, pain, sleep problems, dreams
and hypnosis.
West frequently served as a court-appointed expert
psychiatrist.  He testified that Ruby, killer of President Kennedy's
assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, suffered from ``major mental illness
apparently precipitated by the stress of his trial and its aftermath.''
That opinion forestalled Ruby's death sentence, and he died of cancer in
prison.
West was also one of four psychiatrists who examined Hearst, the
kidnapping victim turned bank robber, before her 1976 trial. The panel
found she was sane and able to stand trial but ``psychologically damaged
as a result of torture.'' It recommended she should be treated before
the trial, a recommendation ignored by
the court.
In a speech after Hearst's conviction, West said, ``The
government finished the destruction of her life started by an
anti-government group.'' Her sentence was eventually commuted.
West was sought out by the news media for insight on cults as
recently as 1997, when the group Heaven's Gate staged a mass suicide in
San Diego.
A civil rights activist, West was the first white psychiatrist
to go to South Africa to testify on behalf of black prisoners during the
attempt to end apartheid. He was a member of the White House Conference
on Civil Rights in 1966, and he worked for years to abolish the death
penalty.

Forwarded for info and discussion from the New Paradigms
Discussion List, not necessarily endorsed by:
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] CTRL List

1999-01-09 Thread Barb Witt


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 2:32:46 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of Ame,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Hiya Kris,

 My vote would be for 2 lists: one for discussion and the second one to post
 articles.  A combined lists would mean way too many posts.  IMHO.

 Hilary
  
I concur with Hilary!
Bill


I agree with Bill and Hilary(who'd have thought?)

Barb

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fw: TURMEL: TRAGEDY AND HOPE Chapters I-IV

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: John Turmel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups:
can.politics,sci.econ,sci.engr,ncf.ca.lets,alt.politics.greens,alt.fan.john-
turmel,alt.conspiracy
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:46 AM
Subject: TURMEL: TRAGEDY AND HOPE Chapters I-IV

TRAGEDY AND HOPE Chapters I-IV
by Dr. Carroll Quigley
ISBN 0913022-14-4

CONTENTS

I. INTRODUCTION: WESTERN CIVILIZATION IN ITS WORLD SETTING
II. WESTERN CIVILIZATION TO 1914
III. THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE TO 1917
IV. THE BUFFER FRINGE
V. THE FIRST WORLD WAR
VI. THE VERSAILLES SYSTEM AND RETURN TO NORMALCY 1919-1929
VII. FINANCE, COMMERCIAL POLICY AND BUSINESS ACTIVITY 1897-1947
VIII. INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM AND THE SOVIET CHALLENGE
IX. GERMANY FROM KAISER TO HITLER 1913-1945
X. BRITAIN: THE BACKGROUND TO APPEASEMENT 1900-1939
XI. CHANGING ECONOMIC PATTERNS
XII. THE POLICY OF APPEASEMENT 1931-1936
XIII. THE DISRUPTION OF EUROPE
XIV. WORLD WAR II: THE TIDE OF AGGRESSION 1939-1941
XV. WORLD WAR II: THE EBB OF AGGRESSION 1941-1945
XVI. THE NEW AGE
XVII. NUCLEAR RIVALRY AND COLD WAR, AMERICAN NUCLEAR SUPERIORITY 1950-
1957
XVIII. NUCLEAR RIVALRY AND COLD WAR, RACE FOR THE H-BOMB 1950-1957
XIX. THE NEW ERA
XX. TRAGEDY AND HOPE: THE FUTURE IN PERSPECTIVE

Back cover
 TRAGEDY AND HOPE is a lively, informed and always readable view
of our not quite One World of today, seen in historical perspective.
Quigley has already shown his command of the kind of historical
perspective seen in the a world like that of Toynbee and Spengler; but
unlike them he does not so much concern himself with projections from
a distant past to a distant future as he does with what must interest
us all much more closely - our own future and that of our immediate
descendants. He uses the insights, but in full awareness of the
limitations of our modern social sciences, and especially those of
economics, sociology, and psychology. Not all readers will agree with
what he sees ahead of us in the near future, nor with what he thinks
we should do about it. But all will find this provocative and
sometimes provoking book a stimulus to profitable reflection.
David Brinton

Inside cover
 TRAGEDY AND HOPE shows the years 1895-1950 as a period of
transition from the world dominated by Europe in the nineteenth
century to the world of three blocs in the twentieth century. With
clarity, perspective and cumulative impact, Professor Quigley examines
the nature of that transition through two world wars and a worldwide
economic depression. As an interpretative historian, he tries to show
each event in the full complexity of its historical context. The
result is a unique work, notable in several ways. It gives a picture
of the world in terms of the influence of different cultures and
outlooks upon each other; it shows, more completely than in any
similar work, the influence of science and technology on human life;
and it  explains, with unprecedented clarity, how the intricate
financial and commercial patterns of the West prior to 1914 influenced
the development of today's world.
 Carroll Quigley, professor of history at the Foreign Service
School of Georgetown University, formerly taught at Princeton and at
Harvard. He has done research in the archives of France, Italy and
England, and is the author  of the widely praised "Evolution of
Civilizations." A member of the editorial board of the monthly Current
History, he is a frequent lecturer and consultant for public and semi-
public agencies. He is a member of the American Association for the
Advancement of Science, the American Anthropological Association, and
the American Economic Association, as well as various historical
associations. He has been lecturer on Russian history at the
Industrial College of the Armed Forces since 1951 and on Africa at the
Brookings Institution since 1961, and has lectured at many other other
places including the U.S. Naval Weapons Laboratory, the Foreign
Service Institute of the State Department, and the Naval College at
Norfolk, Virginia. In 1958, he was a consultant to the Congressional
Select Committee which set up the present national space agency. He
was collaborator in history to the Smithsonian Institution after 1957,
in connection with the establishment of its new Museum of History and
Technology. In the summer of 1964 he went to the Navy Post-Graduate
School, Monterey, California, as a consultant to project Seabed, which
tried to visualize what American weapons systems would be like in
twelve years.

CHAPTER I: INTRODUCTION: WESTERN CIVILIZATION IN ITS WORLD SETTING

Page 3
 Each civilization is born in some inexplicable fashion and, after
a slow start, enters a period of vigorous expansion, increasing its
size and power, both internally and at the expense of its neighbors,
until gradually a crisis of organization appears... It becomes
stabilized and eventually stagnant. After a Golden Age of peace and
prosperity, internal crises again arise. At this point, there appears
for the

[CTRL] Clinton's new Hustler column Duh

1999-01-09 Thread H Samuels


 -Caveat Lector-

I saw Flint's daughter on some program and they
said Flint actually got the scoop on republicians
from the FBI files that the democrats took
illegaly.
By this story Flint is pretending to get scoops
from the public when he is actualy working
for the democrats and using copies of the
fbi files to get his info ...
of course the democratic mob family would
not be blamed for what Flint does.

If Flint is getting his scoop from the public, is
it only republician politicians who engage in
such sex acts?

If Flint is not working for clinton, then where
are his exposures of whoremonger democrats?

HMmmm

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying

1999-01-09 Thread PRUDYL


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 1:54:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 
   U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan has obtained what he regards as
   convincing evidence that United Nations arms inspectors helped collect
   eavesdropping intelligence used in American efforts to undermine the
   Iraqi regime, according to confidants who said he is deeply alarmed by
   the implications of the relationship for the world body. 

I thought my husband was crazy when he said this almost a  year ago.  He has a
lot of military experience behind him, and he said it was pretty obvious.
Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Weir-ere They May Roam ...






From: "Gregory or Cheryl Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED]



__

Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:10:28 -0800
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy B. Carmain)
Subject: Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: HRH  Prince  Nicholas  deVere

I've finally managed to enlarge de Vere's genealogy from the Dragon Order
web page, and I must say it gets points for sheer inventiveness.  Much of
it
is absolutely certifiable, i.e the descent from Pepin III and the lineage
of
the Earls of Oxford (with the possible exception of their descent from the
Tuatha de Danaan who are mythological beings).  However, de Vere's line
seems to be grafted on circa 1139 with a younger son of Alberic de Vere,
Count of Guisnes by the name of Robert, who I can't seem to locate in my
usual sources.  This Robert is purportedly the progenitor of the "Royal
Vere
of Scotland" line (odd since I've never come across a reference to the de
Veres as kings of Scotland), wherein the name was corrupted to "Weir" some
centuries later.  The unbroken line continues down to the present day
through various Lords Weir of Vere (?), who surprisingly aren't noted
anywhere in Burke's Peerage, Burke's Landed Gentry, Debrett's Peerage, or
Ruvigny's Titled Nobility of Europe.  This, according to Prince Nicholas,
is
the line of the Hereditary Dragon Lords of Sarkany Rend - but he stops
short
of explaining how a Scots family (and the "Royal" family to boot!) came to
head up what he identifies elsewhere as a Hungarian order, established by a
German Emperor and consort of a Queen of Hungary who was herself of French
ancestry... 'tis a mystery still.  The line culminates with "HRH The
Princeps Draconis, Nicholas II (?) de Vere, Sovereign Grand Master of the
Imperial and Royal Dragon Court, Sarkany Rend, Grand Master of the Knights
Templar, and HRH The Prince Drakenberg".  It would appear that "Prince"
Michael and the Stewarts have been swept aside for the "Weir de Veres".

I faxed these charts to a genealogist chum up in San Francisco, as he is
fairly up on his faux claimants as well.  Surprisingly, my friend called me
to say that he had seen these charts before, although the "Weir de Vere"
surname was a new inclusion.  He identified "Prince Nicholas" as one Tom
Weir, a Scotsman who at one time claimed that the Habsburgs were
illegitimate and that they had usurped the throne of the Holy Roman Empire
from the de Vere dynasty.  Aside from the fact that it's a bit difficult to
usurp an elective throne, Mr. Weir's contention that the German "W" is
pronounced "V", thus Weir=Vere is a bit off.  In German, "ei" is pronounced
as a long "i", thus if pronounced in German, "Weir" would be pronounced as
"Vire", rhyming with "fire".  My colleague seems to think that the author
of
these very imaginative charts is none other than "Sir" Laurence Gardner
himself, apparently a close associate of Mr. Weir.

Tim Carmain

Timothy B. Carmain
Business Manager, Mesa Court Housing
University of California, Irvine
(949) 824-7533 voice, (949) 824-3046 fax



Tim --

How valid then is the below in light of the above?

'









Clan Weir







The name Weir, like many lowland Scottish names, is of Norman origin from
one or several of the places named Vere around the Calvados region of
France. The word was introduced into Normandy by the Norsemen from their own
word "ver" meaning a station. It appears that Ralph or Radulphus de Ver is
the first of the name recorded in Scotland. He was taken prisoner along with
Richard the Lion in 1174; he later witnessed a charter by King William I
sometime between 1174 and 1184. During the same period he gifted a bovate of
land in Sprouston, Roxburgh to the Abbey of Kelso; his brother, Robert de
Ver, was a witness to this charter. The Weirs of Blackwood, Lanarkshire,
claim their descent from this Ralph de Ver, although this cannot be proven
as their name does not appear on record until 1400 when they acquired their
lands. Other Weirs were vassals of the Abbots of Kelso and as such held
extensive lands in Lesmahagow. Some of the MacNairs in Cowal anglisized
their name to Weir or Veir, the Gaelic original being Mac Amhaoir; the "mh"
is pronounced "v". MacAmhaoir has been extinct as a name for about two
hundred years and the anglicization into Weir may well have contributed to
its disappearance. William Weir was created 1st Viscount Weir in 1 938; he
had been Secretary of State and Chairman of the Air Council in 1918 and
industrial adviser to the Ottawa Conference in 1932. The best remembered of
the Weirs is Major Thomas Weir of Kirktown c.1600-1670, the "Bowheaded
Saint". Born in Lanarkshire, he was a lieutenant in the army sent by the
Covenanters to protect the Ulster colonies in 1641. Later he was a major in
Lanark's Regiment and was appointed to command the City Guard of Edinburgh.

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

It is becoming increasing clear to me that Saddam is being set up.  Now,
before people start gnashing teeth, I think one of the reasons he was
"selected" is because of his willingness to the more nefarious things he is
being credited with doing.

Some of you may recall (and my memory is fuzzy on this because it was so
long ago) that a year before the Desert Storm (not Fox) Saddam approached
the US government to mediate a dispute he was having with Kuwait.  He said
that they were stealing Iraqi oil (and I don't remember the details of how
this was being done.  I believe through the pipeline that runs through
Kuwait).  Basically, Bush brushed him off and told Saddam to deal with it
himself.  Which, of course, he did.

So, IF Saddam is being set up, I want to know to what end.  If it were
simply a matter of "eliminating" him that would have been done long ago
despite being told how difficult it is to locate him.

Hilary

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 1:54:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 
   U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan has obtained what he regards as
   convincing evidence that United Nations arms inspectors helped collect
   eavesdropping intelligence used in American efforts to undermine the
   Iraqi regime, according to confidants who said he is deeply alarmed by
   the implications of the relationship for the world body. 

I thought my husband was crazy when he said this almost a  year ago.  He
has a
lot of military experience behind him, and he said it was pretty obvious.
Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] End of oil economy


 -Caveat Lector-

nurev wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 The Death of the Oil Economy
   by Ted Trainer

 From Earth Island Journal, Spring 1997

 Australia - A new report on world oil resources, World Oil Supply 1930-2050 (Campbell
 and Laherre, Petroconsultants Pty. Ltd., 1995), concludes that the planet's oil 
supplies
 will be exhausted much sooner than previously thought.

 The report, written for oil industry insiders and priced at $32,000 per copy, 
concludes
 that world oil production and supply probably will peak as soon as the year 2000 and 
will
 decline to half the peak level by 2025. Large and permanent increases in oil prices 
are
 predicted after the year 2000.

   They wish. How did you get your copy? Did you pay $32,000? If not how
did you get it? Did you steal it?

   Notice how new it is? 1995? If this report were believeable gas
prices should have gone up considerably since then. Have they? Or is
this just propaganda?

Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

Welcome Carlene
This is a research list and even limited to a 100 posts a day it can
still be hard to keep up.  There are achieves available at
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
that when you check this thread you will see what was posted before you
signed on.  I for one don't have much truck with personal discussions and so
this is the last that you will see me on this thread.  I am starting a new
one with something that I have only posted as a URL.
Education, Religion and Propaganda
It starts slow and then takes off.
Laura
AKA The Pied Piper

-Original Message-
From: Carlene M. Wojahn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

Thank you for your warm welcome..the first post I opened up was the post
accusing you to
be someone else.  The mentality of that first message got me wondering
about this list.
But I will stick around and see what I can learn, if anything I can learn
from
youand others who actually think before they write..

and for those of you wondering if I am someone else from this list check
out my isp and
you find out that I am not..I really am me.

Carlene

Carlene

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Carlene,
 Welcome to the list!  This is the second time I've subscribed...and you

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] Education, Religion and Propaganda

http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/EducationReligionandPropoganda.htm
(c) Dec 6, 1998 by Laura Lee Lanning*Shipton
The main url for this site is http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm
Disclaimer: PG educated open mind Because
this is a different view point on Religion then is found from straight
scripture. This means that kids better check with their parents before
reading farther.
Education, Religion and Propaganda
Part 1
Working rich normally realize how they got there and that
most anyone could potentially have a chance to get to the same
place. That what they have is a responsibility and Obligation. Many
(of them) do not think of what they have as toys, but as tools! If you are
capable of using these tools (as carrots) to motivate others to study and work
to get to that level too, that is the ultimate! To teach people to read so
that they are capable of educating them selves.
To put this on a personal basis. I check with
my conscience on many things that I do. Example: I am great at
phonics and eventually would like to help at the public library with the people
that are learning to read. Why don't I - Not counting kids, school, and
finances? Because I see things in the school to work law that
will make me a commodity (my mind and education) that can be directed (bought
and sold) by the government if it goes into effect. That can make me
unable to direct my life because if the Texas Constitution (which is based on
the US Constitution) is able to be re-written (like they have talked about and
want to currently do) - If I even want to go to school, and have my children
schooled, then I will have to bow to however the government decides that they
are able to make the most money from my education. Sold to the
highest bidder.
A year ago I aspired to go to the Department of Education
as a person that was financially independent - as a science fiction writer -
then on to Astronomy with Physics, still writing science fiction. I should
be past Linear Algebra, yet I have not been able to take time to go past the
College Algebra that I learned a year ago because I am trying to make my voice
heard. Waco of the 1980's was clean enough that the the major people /
members of Baylor and the Catholic Church were willing to go into the night
clubs, and there was no stigma (except economic need - have and have not - that
you had to work) attached to working at one of the clubs. Gradually they
left (were driven out) and that protection / insight left with them. They
may have turned there noses up at some of the patrons, but they respected the
Management (etc.) and realized that people were human. When some
people tried to keep the US from finding out that the fact that sugar
seems to be the main reason that some alcohol is addictive, and by
keeping us from researching and finding that in England a pub owner that adds
sugar to his brew is (a little more than) discredited they helped take this town
down.
Why? Genetics, like Hitler. By being able to
say that alcohol addiction has a genetic basis you open the door to things like
eugenics and trying to say that ethnic things are genetic. Homosexualism -
Genetic? Get real. But if you know about Iceland being predominantly
Female and China being predominantly male you start to look and wonder.
*urls*
Demasculization of Animals, Humans next?
Then to the current scoop on chemicals http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/1998/10/102998/chemical.asp
World Wildlife Fund - chemicals in the environment -
http://www.worldwildlife.org/toxics/
Demasculization of Animals, Humans next? - http://biology.usgs.gov/frog.html
This mostly relates to the connection between pesticides
and BSE, These include Organophosphate sheep dip Diazinon, Propetamphos,
Chlorfenvinphos, Carbophenothion; and via a third party, went on to
Cufomate, which he had used as a warble fly dressing. I later explored all the
OPs which had been used in the Gulf War.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/2836/index.html

---Why would people want to put this on a genetic
basis? from: Rockefeller Drug Censor Empire
ftp://ftp.tetrahedron.org/pub/Rockefeller_Drug_Censor_Empire.txt

The Drug Story ---
*end of urls*
So where would this leave us eventually? Eventually?
How about today! Courting homosexuals? How about keeping some from
realizing that they have no chance of having offspring. What better way
then for many of them to not even want offspring? Also, saying that it is
genetic? Homosexualism genetic? What if this were common knowledge
(if the males and Churches) were to stop Idolizing Maleness and realize that the
human male is a endangered item. --my comment, (I like the fact that there
are males - Viva La Difference!@$^))*%##@^*)(-!... If that is being
dominated then what else is that testosterone good for? Worry about me
wanting to be a male and have to

[CTRL] RABBI MARVIN ANTELMAN - FATHER OF JEWISH NWO STUDY

1999-01-09 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 ---
 Antelman

 Author:barry chamish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:  1998/07/29
 Forums:israel.lists.il-talk
 ---

 RABBI MARVIN ANTELMAN - FATHER OF JEWISH NWO STUDY

  by Barry Chamish

 My recent article on CFR control of American Jewish organizations
 led to requests for more information.  I recalled that Rabbi Marvin
 Antelman had researched the subject and I quickly reread his 1974
 book 'To Eliminate The Opiate' (Zahavia Ltd.  New York, Tel Aviv),
 which has since become a bona fide classic of contemporary
 conspiracy literature, endlessly quoted by authors of the field
 from both the Left and Right.

 Upon perusing the work again, I was amazed how advanced was Rabbi
 Antelman's perspective.  No other Jew that I'm aware of was writing
 exposes of the New World Order back in 1974.  The title of the book
 sums up the thesis that an organized assault on the Jewish religion
 was mounted by Illuminati forces in the eighteenth century and the
 plan is capably enforced today by the court Jews of the NWO.

 Rabbi Antelman begins his book with a look at the Bund, the first
 organization dedicated to the assimilation of Judaism into nothing.
 He writes:

 The Bund which existed as a secret society was later to become
 known as the International Communist Party.  The actual origin of
 the Bund seems lost in obscurity but it is believed by many
 political scientists to have been influenced largely by another
 secret organization, the Illuminati, the brainchild of a Bavarian
 intellectual named Adam Weishaupt...  [or, by the Frankists...]

 Their lust for power was of such great dimensions that it could
 cause any loyalties that they may have harbored for their own
 religious orders to become ancillary to the objectives of the Bund.
 It suited these people both socially and by temperament to retain a
 facade of religious formalism which did not prevent them from going
 about their demonic business of destroying religion methodically...

 It was Jacob Schiff and his family who played a prominent role in
 developing the Reform and Conservative apostate Jewish movements
 and who aided them at critical stages of their development in
 putting into action the demonic masterplan to undermine all world
 religions.  Fragmentation and divide and conquer tactics were the
 order of the day.  If Jews could be fragmentized and irreversibly
 split, success in implementing the religious revolution would be
 achieved.

 A hundred and six pages later, Rabbi Antelman brings us up to date
 and claims the same forces are at work in America today:

 The Frankists today no longer call themselves by that name.  The
 Organization has grown into an international group labelled by
 outsiders as The Cult Of The All-Seeing Eye...

 In the United States they are most active in Boston, New York,
 Washington and San Francisco.  Their ranks and sponsors include
 some very famous people, numbering diplomats, senators, governors
 and clergymen...  In Jewish circles they dominate the Reform
 movement at many levels and the Conservative movement at the
 highest level...

 The other Jewish circles that they dominate are the Anti-Defamation
 League, the American Jewish Congress and Federations of Jewish
 Charities in many American cities.

 These days, I meet with Rabbi Antelman often at his home in
 Rehovot.  He now acknowledges that the headquarters of the forces
 he wrote about a generation ago are in the Manhattan offices of
 the Council On Foreign Relations.

 end


 ---
 Copyright © 1995-98 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved.



 +++

 Communist Strategy for Conquest:

 Subversion and destruction of religious faith:

 Rabbi Marvin Antelman's TO ELIMINATE THE OPIATE (New York:
 Zahavia, 1974) explores the illuminist/communist subversion
 of traditional Judaism.

 +++

 From an old A-Albionic Catalog:
 http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/LITTLE.html

 To Eliminate the Opiate: The Frightening Inside Story of
 Communist and Conspiratorial Group Efforts to Destroy Jews,
 Judaism, and Israel - by Rabbi Marvin S. Antleman, 1974
 Rare/Out-of-Print Paperback, 166 pages, Order #00867 $25.00

 +++


 from:
 Evidence of a Master Conspiracy, by William H. McIlhany, 4-4-87

  http://home.earthlink.net/~whm/download.txt

 These are two books that are most important on understanding the
 organized effort of the Conspiracy to destroy Judaism.  I recommend
 strongly Rabbi Marvin Antelman's, TO ELIMINATE THE OPIATE, a very
 important study on the setting up of phony movements among Jewish
 communities in Europe and the United States to destroy Jewish faith.

 The accompanying book, PERFIDY by Ben Hecht, is the only accurate
 book on the real founding fathers of the present-day state of
 Israel.  It tells

[CTRL] Fwd: FREE THE AIRWAVES



  Source:  Investors Business Daily

  FREE THE AIRWAVES

  By SCOTT G. BULLOCK

  What do a North Dakota farmer, a Berkeley political radical and a
  Connecticut gospel radio-station owner have in common? They're all
  considered outlaws in the Federal Communications Commission's
  misguided campaign to get rid of low-power radio.

  Roy Neset's Tioga, N.D., farm isn't quite in the middle of nowhere,
  but it's close. Neset wanted to listen to talk radio while cultivating
  his fields on his tractor. But the only radio station in the area
  plays country music and refused to change its programming.

  So Neset bought a low-power radio transmitter, got written permission
  from a Colorado station to carry its signal and began transmitting
  that station via satellite. Neset's station extends only about five
  miles in each direction, most of which consists of his farm. His
  station is also listened to by a handful of people in the area.

  When the local radio station manager learned of Neset's broadcasts, he
  complained to the FCC's field office in Minneapolis. The FCC sent an
  agent to Tioga on at least two occasions to monitor the station. On
  learning that Neset was broadcasting on 88.3 FM without a license, the
  FCC convinced the U.S. Attorney in North Dakota to file a lawsuit.

  During a hearing, the FCC admitted that Neset wasn't interfering with
  any existing station. In fact, no FM stations broadcast in the area.
  But the agency stuck with its argument that it's illegal to broadcast
  without a license.

  So why doesn't Neset simply get a license from the FCC? He can't.

  The FCC allowed small broadcasters to acquire Class D licenses until
  '80. That gave them the right to broadcast at 10 watts. But the
  Corporation for Public Broadcasting, among others, convinced the FCC
  that 10-watt stations would clutter the lower end of the radio
  spectrum that might otherwise carry National Public Radio.

  The result? The FCC stopped issuing Class D licenses, and small
  stations were squeezed off the air. This regime left pockets of unused
  parts of the airwaves - too small for full-power stations, but perfect
  for small ones.

  But listeners' growing displeasure with homogeneous radio, along with
  affordable transmission gear, has led to an upswing in microradio
  stations - and FCC crackdowns.

  It's estimated that as many as 1,000 ''pirate'' stations are on the
  air today. The FCC took more than 100 actions against micro-
  broadcasters in '98 alone.

  Although people often associate low-power broadcasting with the
  political left, microradio has received support from free-market
  economists and libertarians for decades.

  Economists such as Thomas Hazlett and Nobel Laureate Ronald Coase
  argue that orderly allocation of the broadcast spectrum would be much
  better served by recognizing private property rights in the spectrum.
  Any interference with those rights, they say, should be treated as a
  tort. The current FCC system of licensing, regulation and control
  would be unnecessary.

  Other economists have undermined the FCC's rationale for banning
  microradio - the supposed ''scarcity'' of broadcast frequencies.
  Scarcity of valuable goods is a universal fact and can't serve as
  justification for regulating one activity and not another.

  But the explosion of new communications technologies in the past 30
  years shows the obsolescence of the scarcity doctrine.

  Creating a system for the limited regulation of microradio could
  fulfill the FCC's interest in regulating the spectrum without
  trampling on the First Amendment.

  The FCC could create a similar system of licensing micro-broadcasters,
  assigning frequencies and monitoring technical and safety requirements
  that exist for full-power broadcasters.

  Better still, instead of licensing, the government could merely set up
  rules for microradio broadcasters that would bar interference with
  existing stations.

  The one thing the FCC may not do, though, is completely ban
  microradio. Such a prohibition sweeps far beyond what's necessary or
  justified and is not ''narrowly tailored'' as required under the First
  Amendment.

  Until the legal issues are resolved, the FCC should take a ''do no
  harm'' approach. If the agency can show that an unlicensed station is
  interfering, then it can take action. But until the FCC permits
  micro-broadcasting, it should allow farmer Neset and hundreds like him
  to exercise their free speech rights on the airwaves.

  Scott G. Bullock is an attorney at the Washington-based Institute for
  Justice, which represents Roy Neset in his prosecution by the FCC.

  
  Copyright (c)  1999 Investors Business Daily, All rights reserved.
  Investor's Business Daily - Viewpoint (01/05/99)
  Free The Airwaves01/04/99 20:48

  ---
  NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this

Re: [CTRL] CTRL List

 -Caveat Lector-

-Original Message-
From: Bill Richer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] CTRL List

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 2:32:46 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of Ame,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Hiya Kris,

 My vote would be for 2 lists: one for discussion and the second one to
post
 articles.  A combined lists would mean way too many posts.  IMHO.

 Hilary

I concur with Hilary!
Bill

Please, Add my vote to this.
Laura

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

As I research my recollection for the specificity of information to clarify
this point,

I think Saddam's claim was the Kuwaitis were engaged in horizontal drilling
(as in under the border into a well in Iraq).



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
--
: From: Hilary Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying
: Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:50 PM
:
: Some of you may recall (and my memory is fuzzy on this because it was so
: long ago) that a year before the Desert Storm (not Fox) Saddam approached
: the US government to mediate a dispute he was having with Kuwait.  He
said
: that they were stealing Iraqi oil (and I don't remember the details of
how
: this was being done.  I believe through the pipeline that runs through
: Kuwait).  Basically, Bush brushed him off and told Saddam to deal with it
: himself.  Which, of course, he did.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

Alamaine,

I couldn't remember if it were horizontal drilling or tapping into the
pipeline.  In either case, Saddam did make the effort to go through proper
channels.  We can only second guess why Bush brushed him off, why he went to
the US (perhaps knowing he wouldn't get assistance??? or it may have been a
genuine request for help).  I can't recall if he approached the UN or not.

Hilary


-Original Message-
From: Alamaine Ratliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

As I research my recollection for the specificity of information to clarify
this point,

I think Saddam's claim was the Kuwaitis were engaged in horizontal drilling
(as in under the border into a well in Iraq).



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
--
: From: Hilary Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying
: Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:50 PM
:
: Some of you may recall (and my memory is fuzzy on this because it was so
: long ago) that a year before the Desert Storm (not Fox) Saddam approached
: the US government to mediate a dispute he was having with Kuwait.  He
said
: that they were stealing Iraqi oil (and I don't remember the details of
how
: this was being done.  I believe through the pipeline that runs through
: Kuwait).  Basically, Bush brushed him off and told Saddam to deal with it
: himself.  Which, of course, he did.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] A New [Old] Heroin Conspiracy

 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/marijuana/medical/nahas

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Gabriel Nahas
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 9:12:14 CDT

 If anybody has any *facts* about Nahas as his reported retractions of
 findings and his fall from grace with Colombia Univ. I'd like to hear the
 details.

 I think Jack Herer's book has some citations to retractions made by Nahas.
 If it wasn't Jack's book, then it was Chris Conrad's book, "Lifeline to
the
 Future."

Neither one has specific references to newspapers or anything.  They state
that Columbia University held a press conference in 1976 distancing
themselves from Nahas' research, and that Nahas made retractions of
_some_ of his studies at a press conference in 1983, after much
professional ridicule.  I wish one of them had thought to include a
newspaper reference or a specific date.  It may be in the latest
edition of Emperor; I've got a 1991 copy.

They also talk about Nahas' associations in the UN with Kurt Waldheim
and Lyndon Larouche, his control over all UN-sponsered cannibis research
for a period in the early seventies, and a professional scandal in 1971
when he published a report of a marijuana fatality in Belgium.  Larouche
and Nahas both worked at the OSS, which later became the CIA.  And,
get this, Nahas is trained as an anesthesiologist!

This guy's serious bad news, and he has no credibility within the
medical community whatsoever.

References for studies repudiating Nahas' claims:
Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), 4/30/1973, pg.631:
highly critical review of book on cannabis by Nahas

Disproval of immune-system damage claims:
Science, vol.186, 1974, pp.740-741 "Normal Skin Test Responses in Chronic
Marihuana Users", M.J. Silverstein  P.J. Lessin

---
Somebody needs to hook Chris Conrad up to the net.  I'm sure he's got this
kind of info ready at-hand.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] Steven C. Anderson MN Grassroots Party Secretary

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying


 -Caveat Lector-

Fro anyone who wants a real slam-bam book AGAINST the war(s) with Iraq, I
suggest

Desert Slaughter:  The Imperialist War Against Iraq
Labor Publications, Inc
ISBN 0929087-54-2
$18.95

Can be obtained from wsws.org

Now, be forewarned there's a LOT of polemically political Socialist
vocabulary (it's their book so they can do this) contained in the articles
that make up the book.  It literally chronicles the days before, during and
after DS/DS, through bulletins.  There is also a section that tells the
history of the region and the events and circumstances leading up to August
1990.  If one can read through the political verbiage (one's own choice to
agree or disagree), it tends to bring up the OTHER side of the push toward
war.  Some answers (right or wrong, politically or otherwise) can be found
therein.

Also be mindful that as I recommend the book, I endorse it ONLY from the
standpoint that it does look at the issue from another point of view, a
view that I do not necessarily, specifically, personally endorse.

AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
--
: From: Hilary Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying
: Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 5:01 PM
:
:  -Caveat Lector-
:
: Alamaine,
:
: I couldn't remember if it were horizontal drilling or tapping into the
: pipeline.  In either case, Saddam did make the effort to go through
proper
: channels.  We can only second guess why Bush brushed him off, why he went
to
: the US (perhaps knowing he wouldn't get assistance??? or it may have been
a
: genuine request for help).  I can't recall if he approached the UN or
not.
:
: Hilary
:
:
: -Original Message-
: From: Alamaine Ratliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:55 PM
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying
:
:
:  -Caveat Lector-
: 
: As I research my recollection for the specificity of information to
clarify
: this point,
: 
: I think Saddam's claim was the Kuwaitis were engaged in horizontal
drilling
: (as in under the border into a well in Iraq).
: 
: 
: 
: AER
: 
: The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
: new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
: + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
: --
: : From: Hilary Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: : Subject: Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying
: : Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 3:50 PM
: :
: : Some of you may recall (and my memory is fuzzy on this because it was
so
: : long ago) that a year before the Desert Storm (not Fox) Saddam
approached
: : the US government to mediate a dispute he was having with Kuwait.  He
: said
: : that they were stealing Iraqi oil (and I don't remember the details of
: how
: : this was being done.  I believe through the pipeline that runs through
: : Kuwait).  Basically, Bush brushed him off and told Saddam to deal with
it
: : himself.  Which, of course, he did.
:
: DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
: ==
: CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
: screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
: and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
: frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
: spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
: gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
: be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
: nazi's need not apply.
:
: Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
: 
: Archives Available at:
: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
:
: http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
: 
: To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
: To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
: Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and

Re: [CTRL] Iraq inspectors seem guilty of spying

1999-01-09 Thread Hawk


 -Caveat Lector-

Hilary Thomas wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Alamaine,

 I couldn't remember if it were horizontal drilling or tapping into the
 pipeline.  In either case, Saddam did make the effort to go through proper
 channels.  We can only second guess why Bush brushed him off, why he went to
 the US (perhaps knowing he wouldn't get assistance??? or it may have been a
 genuine request for help).  I can't recall if he approached the UN or not.

How about the idea that it was nothing more than the same "trick" that was used to
encourage Hitler to take more territory, or that South Korea was not "in our
sphere of influence," only to use their aggression as an excuse to get into
another war??? Why do such a thing, you ask?  Well, could be that the NWO folks
want to establish "credible" precidents for sending NATO (the only official
military force for the NWO at this time) forces to "teach someone a lesson."  As I
recall, our Secretary of State met with Saddam when he asked for help in a
squabble with Kuwait (which was an artificial state previously carved out of
Iraq), and told Saddam, "You go ahead and take care of it... We won't interfere."
Seems Saddam wasn't politically astute enough to know that when the USA
politicians tell you something, you should assume the opposite is true.  Thus, he
took action, and there was a "ready made excuse" to set a precedent... Remember
Bush saying the war was to "Strengthen the New World Order" or that "out of this,
a New World Order will emerge"???

Hawk

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread Jim Norman


 -Caveat Lector-

You are correct.  It is your list.  But, (oh shit here, it comes) what I see is
censorship because you don't like his method of supporting his position.  I enjoy
the list and have learned a lot from both positions of the debate.  My appraisal
of the intercourse was (in Hawk's defense) honest debate using facts and
historical documents; countered by name calling and personal assault.  Hawk's
retorts to the effacement efforts were, in my opinion, superior.  The other
debators resorted to name calling and debasement after the second post and it
degenerated from there.  I think you should be able to sustain your position with
substance, not censorship.  I further believe, in any debate you should be able to
support your position for more than two post without resorting to name calling.
Thank you for your work in maintaining this list.  I learn a lot from the folks
who post here.
Sincerely,
Jim Norman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 I will agree, that there is much 'blame' to go around during the recent
 'STUPID' bs flamings.  And I really don't want to be a recess monitor.

 Sometimes I figure, if ya dish it out better expect to deal with it. Mostly it
 is a bore.

 Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal
 distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical
 outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and interpretation"
 are futile and a waste of time. MHO

 And personally, somekind of hang-up, I guess, but I just don't 'cotton' to
 racism, bigotry and slavery, 'authorized' by the Bible, Chamber of Commerce or
 whatever.
 Excuse me.

 And besides what/whose sides?

 There is the cryptocracy. Their helpers and us, hoi polloi.

 Om
 K

 If people wish to pursue a more broader range discusion list, relating to
 conspiracy theory, that can be accomplished. But the utility of CTRL goes down
 when there is a high posting level and a lot of 'noise'.

 In a message dated 1/8/99 8:19:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides
 and
 if one
 
 goes, they should all go.
 
 Jim norman
 -
 Aloha, He'Ping,
 Om, Shalom, Salaam.
 Em Hotep, Peace Be,
 Omnia Bona Bonis,
 All My Relations.
 Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
 Amen.
 Roads End
 Kris

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Larry Flynt Outed?

1999-01-09 Thread Gavin Phillips


 -Caveat Lector-

www.cbn.org/news/stories/990107b.asp


Flynt's Daughter Claims New Evidence That Ties
Father to White House
January 7, 1999


[Transcript from The 700 Club TV show]
Pat Robertson: Yesterday we mentioned there might be some revelations
at the National Press Club today and we have a quick update on that.
Here is Lee at our news desk.
Lee Webb: That's right, Pat. As we mentioned earlier, Larry Flynt is
expected to drop yet another bombshell on his crusade to expose the
alleged sex scandals of congressional Republicans. Now in a surprising
counter, the daughter of the Hustler magazine founder is threatening to
expose her father. Today in Washington, Flynt's daughter, Tonya
Flynt-Vega, is holding a news conference to counter her father's
allegations. We go now by phone to the National Press Club in
Washington where Melissa Charbonneau is standing by. Melissa,
what's happening?
Melissa Charbonneau at the National Press Club, D.C.: Well, we are
here at the National Press Club and Tonya Vega said she is here to
give revelations about her father's motivation and what kind of man her
father is. She says she has evidence to reveal the relationship between
her father Larry Flynt and the White House and she says she believes
her father Larry Flynt is being used to launder information from illegally
obtained FBI files on high-ranking Republican politicians. She believes
James Carville, her father's friend, is behind all this. However, she is not
willing at this point to present any hard evidence of that. She said she
might present that after her father's press conference next week.
Lee Webb: Why did she say she was going to wait to do that, to bring
that evidence, Melissa?
Melissa Charbonneau: She said she did not get any information. She said
she had not provided this information to any law enforcement
authorities, but she will use it to protect herself.
Lee Webb: Are there other folks at the news conference, mainstream
media types who are there?
Melissa Charbonneau: Yes there are a number of video cameras here
and the press conference is still going on. Ms. Vega also introduced
what she called a surprise witness, Ms. Sharon Frank Dunbar, who had
heard her on a broadcast recently. She said that she was a dancer in
Larry Flynt's Hustler club and apparently accuses him of involvement in
sexually assaulting her.
Lee Webb: Melissa, keep us posted. If you find out anything else, please
let us know. We will stay on top of this story. Pat, again we need to
point out she is making this allegation that there is a connection between
James Carville and her father but no evidence at this point.
Pat Robertson: If anything she is saying can be supported, the misuse of
FBI files to expose dirt on congressional republicans -- that in itself is a
misuse of office. That is an impeachable offense and it is very serious if
proved. But she has brought no evidence apparently that would validate
her assertions. If they can be validated, that is extremely significant
since the White House took 900 FBI files, confidential dossiers on all
sorts of people who were considered enemies of the President. Do you
have something else, Lee?
Lee Webb: We need to keep in mind that just a few months ago James
Carville said "this is war." And no one really knew at that time what he
meant. It remains to be seen if that was really what he did mean by that.
Pat Robertson: There is a nexus between FBI, James Carville, Larry
Flynt, and all these exposures. This is very, very serious and goes to the
very heart of our constitutional republic. So, it's one of those things
someone should treat with some care but still it is unproven.
RELATED STORY

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al

1999-01-09 Thread Jim Norman


 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk had nothing coming to him for defending his position in the debate.  As far as I 
could see, he received nothing he did not respond to honestly and
effectively.  He also won the pissing contest.
Jim Norman

Source - Richard wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Hawk really had what was coming to him. I also agree that William 'egged' him on but 
he does not deserve throwing off, he was simply defending his views.

 RoadsEnd wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Howdy all,
 I have just gone through a lengthy post from Hawk, using the bible to justify
 slavery and comments about how it really wasn't that bad and if ya look at the
 farm logs, some places only whipped their slaves "0.7 whippings per year".
 
 Now I was raised in the south, Virginia and Tennessee, and realize that the
 'official line and history' of the Civil War is no more accurate than todays
 news. But I got no time for a bible thumping slavery apologist. He can start
 his own list, about that crap(MHO),  it is an easy thing to do these days.  He
 could even start a anti-CTRL, with some nazis, for all I care.
 
 Hawk can recieve CTRL posts, he cannot post from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to CTRL
 right now.  And with all the chatter I am really too busy for anymore 'noise'.
 
 Please all, let us be civil and think a bit before ya post.
 
 Om
 K
 
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.
 
 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
 
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Om
 
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 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread Teo1000


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 4:30:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 You own the list. You can do what ever you want with it. However,
 your banning Hawk from the list without even a warning or and ending to
 that particular thread is objectionable to me. Will I be next? Now I
 will have to be looking at everything I write and wonder if I will be
 cut off for writing it. I don't know if your cutting him from the list
 is because of what you stated or if it was because you did not wish to
 deal with an arguement you had firmly planted in your mind and did not
 wish to have shaken. I personally do not recall a passage in the Bible
 which condemns slavery even though my own code of ethics precludes it.
 Perhaps a deeper understanding of the moral code of 3,000 years ago and
 its relationship to that of today would be useful. I don't know. But
 apparently we aren't going to be discussing it here.

 best wishes, Howard Davis 

I beg to differ with you here.  Kris did indeed warn him and all others about
the rhetoric, and has on several occasions made his wishes known as far as
what is acceptable and what is not on this list.  The use of the bible and
other religious material for the furtherance of ones own particular viewpoints
is off topic here and smacks of proselytizing and if you will look at the
disclaimer in every post this is clearly forbidden.  Personally I would have
done the same, but maybe would have added a few other people to the list as
well.  Kris does an admirable job here having to deal with so much garbage
makes the job that much harder.  This list is about conspiracy theory, get it?
If not, bye, bye.
Thanks
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread Teo1000


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 12:51:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  Political and religious 'stances'
 discussions are subjects based upon 'personal' 'beliefs' and continual
 battlement on these subjects deter our study of 'social history and the
forces
 behind the scenes. 

They are no win arguments that just go on and on, and that is why they should
not be discussed here because they take away space that could be better served
discussing other things that can be useful to everyone on the list.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread Jim Norman


 -Caveat Lector-

I believe the problem is a misunderstanding of his beliefs.  I don't believe he 
supports
slavery, he simple reported the truth about what happened in history.  Slavery still 
exist
today and is not limited to black people.  His debate is not about his views, but 
about the
history.  I think he is factual in his references.
I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from 
personal
experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone.  There was no racial 
tension
as today.  Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same.  We 
worked
together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied 
men were
still at war.  Everyone helped everyone else.  If uncle Joe or uncle John wanted to 
leave a
box of food and supplies on a Black's front porch, it had to be done early in the 
morning
before they woke up, cause if they saw him, they would chase him down and make him 
take it
back.  No body wanted charity.
My first real introduction to charity was when my Uncle John with bargain for 30 
minutes
with a Black fellow who lived down the road to swap his carved stick figure for a 
quart of
Uncle John's corn liquor.  He threw the carving in the wood box.  When I questioned 
him as
to why he threw it away after trading for it he replied, " You don't think that man 
would
take charity, do You?"  Things have changed a lot since then.
The "hit the delete button" remark was un-necessary; hitting the delete button only
perpetuates ignorance.  It is not an escape.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Jim Norman


William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 What constitutes "baiting"?  While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
 posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals."  Plus, all of the vile
 and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary.  In addition, I've
 read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
 Americans.  Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
 general.  Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.

 I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
 possible.  Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
 pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
 disagree with.  I don't think I've "baited" anyone.  If anything, I have
 been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
 snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.

 I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
 disguise!!!  Ha ha...go figure!  Yes, there is a similarity between the
 two of us...  And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with
 everything he believes.  I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
 who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards
 showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
 country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
 respect for property...the same things he values

 I'm not a white middle class American.  I didn't go to an elitist
 school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
 twelve...  I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
 hungry...how many of you can say the same?  Have you ever worked at a
 factory? washed dishes to eat?  worked in construction?
 ...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
 strata.  We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
 shovels.  I understand his sense of betrayal and rage.  He's my brother..
 although I disagree with his views.

 So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.

 On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if 
one
  goes, they should all go.
  Jim norman
 
  William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
 
-Caveat Lector-
  
   Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
   I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
   All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
   this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
   spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
   I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
   in my opinion, that his posts..
  
   Best wishes,
   William
  
   On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
  
 -Caveat Lector-
   
I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of states
leaving the Union...per se.
   
In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.
   
Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned

[CTRL] Philosophers Discuss Latest News

1999-01-09 Thread Brian Redman


 -Caveat Lector-

PHILOSOPHERS DISCUSS LATEST NEWS


(CNNS, 01/09/99) -- With the continued jumble of news, CNNS  once
more  called upon its trio of unemployed philosophers -- Glaucon,
Polemarchus, and Thrasymachus -- to provide insight and analysis:

CNNS:  Says here that this  last  Wednesday  a bomb exploded at a
high school in Kansas City, and that 11  students  were  injured.
("Bomb Explodes At High School, Injures 11 Students," AP 1/6/99.)
And  yesterday, some youngsters in Fort Worth stole some roosters
and then used pliers to  rip  off their beaks.  ("Boys Accused of
Mutilating Roosters," AP, 1/8/99.)  The suicide rate among  teens
has gone sky-high. What does it all mean? What say you, Glaucon?

GLAUCON:  Youth hath its exuberances.   It is proper for youth to
be playful, with winter far away.  But the  spirit  of  rejoicing
knows  no  bounds, and the sky will not limit nor gravity oppress
the folly of the eaglet's premature flight.

POLEMARCHUS:  But Glaucon, how then is it when winter invades the
season of youth?  For the  seasons  are  not  constant,  and  the
honeybee oft freezes on the vine.

THRASYMACHUS:  Then too, Friend Glaucon, the seasons of youth oft
are  born in wintertime, so that some youth never know their true
season and are birthed in winter's cold.

GLAUCON:  Aye. Many are the seasons,  and many are the youth born
to them.

[Pause]

CNNS:   Ummm   All right.  There's another story.  "Ru Mills"
has reported that one  of  her  sources  foresees trouble for the
Federal Reserve, due  to  competition  from  the  "Euro,"  a  new
European  currency.   Then  the Japanese finance minister went to
Europe last week; maybe the  Japanese  are worried about the Yen,
their currency.  They must be worried about the Yen:  they're  in
an  economic depression but they've raised their interest rates!!
Capital is being courted,  worldwide,  by  4 entities:  the Euro,
the Yen,  the  stock  markets,  and  the  Federal  Reserve.   The
Dollar/Yen  ratio  has gone down, big-time, and it looks more and
more like Ru Mills's source could  be correct when he said, "Kiss
the Federal Reserve good-bye."  Is the dollar going to crash?

POLEMARCHUS:  I've heard tell of this Ru Mills.  She  dwells  far
off, in the Western Lands.
   Friend Brian, consider this:  when you get into the  bath-tub,
do you not notice that the water rises?

CNNS: Yes, that's so.

THRASYMACHUS:   And  like  the  water in the bath-tub, is not the
stock market also rising?

CNNS: That also is true.

GLAUCON:  Does this not mean that,  for the stock market to rise,
something else must be displaced?  For where the scale rises,  it
rises  not  without  cause.   And  since  matter  is constant, it
increases not.

CNNS: There's something in what you say.

THRASYMACHUS:  Therefore,  since  the  amount  of  matter  in the
universe is constant, and since an increase in  material  in  one
place always means a decrease of material someplace else, then Ru
Mills speaks true: the dollar is in trouble.

GLAUCON:   Friend Brian, look not for a stock market crash -- not
just yet -- since all eyes  look for that.  Look instead to where
no eyes look; look to what force is pushing downward and  thereby
causing the water to rise.

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

INFORMATION PLEASE:  Conspiracy Nation  News  Service (CNNS) is a
co-operative effort.  Without the hints/rumors provided  by  many
excellent  sources,  we could not exist.  Have YOU heard anything
lately  that  might  be  important?   Pass  it  along  to  us  at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Anonymity is guaranteed.  If you  prefer, send your news tip or
clues  on  same  to:   Brian  Redman,  310  S.  Prairie   (#202),
Champaign,  IL  61820.   Or you can go to a pay phone and call in
your news tip: 217-356-4418.
  THEY will never tell us the whole truth about what is going on.
But we, the People, working together, can find out what is REALLY
happening.


Brian Redman   | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html
Editor-in-Chief| ---Phone: 217-356-4418
Conspiracy Nation  |   "The perfect slave thinks he's free."

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

Re: [CTRL] CTRL List

1999-01-09 Thread Alan Howard


 -Caveat Lector-

what a great idea!  You have my vote for an articles-only list - I currently delete a 
lot of discussion postings, as it's only the various articles that I'm interested in 
reading.



Regards

Alan Howard

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of Hilary Thomas
 Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 6:32 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [CTRL] CTRL List


  -Caveat Lector-

 Hiya Kris,

 My vote would be for 2 lists: one for discussion and the second
 one to post
 articles.  A combined lists would mean way too many posts.  IMHO.

 Hilary

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
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 Proselyzting propagandic
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 sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections
 and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and
 minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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[CTRL] Looking Back on Berlin 1993/1996 (AIDs)





Intresting Article - Will follow this up later - 
need to get to the store.
Laura
AKA The Pied Piper
http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/aids/john-l/berlin.html




 

Looking Back on Berlin 
 1993/1996 by John Lauritsen
[Note: This article was published in the Fall/Winter 1993 issue of the 
HEAL Newsletter (New York). I hereby give permission to print out this 
document and to photocopy it. However, it may not be published commercially 
without my permission. -- John Lauritsen, Box 1902, Provincetown, MA 
02657-0245. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] 



In June 1993 I attended the International AIDS conference in Berlin as a 
working journalist. There I observed what happened and did not happen. These 
had little resemblance to what was reported in the media, where almost 
everything newsworthy was blacked out. At some point -- whether in the 
self-censoring heads of reporters or in home-office editorial rooms -- 
widely observed events became non-events, if they were displeasing to the 
AIDS Establishment. For the record, I'll describe what happened, and then 
pose the question: what do AIDS conferences really accomplish? 
Despite over 6,000 presentations, nothing useful came out of the IXth 
International Conference on AIDS (Berlin: 7-11 June 1993). The prevailing 
mood was one of despair and confusion. Initially hopes had been aroused by 
an experimental vaccine developed by Jonas Salk, to be given to those 
already infected with HIV. These hopes were shattered when Salk 
gave an unimpressive presentation, which showed that the vaccine did 
nothing. 
Some drama was provided by Wellcome Pharmaceutical's frenetic efforts at 
damage control, in the aftermath of the Concorde Trial. The top 
researchers of the Anglo-French Concorde study adamantly stood by their 
findings, that AZT had no benefits for asymptomatic, HIV-positive 
individuals: AZT neither delayed the onset of AIDS nor prolonged their 
lives. Wellcome sponsored satellite symposia, gave free lunches, and 
published advertisements designed to disparage and downplay the Concorde 
findings, but to no avail. The media were unsympathetic, and share prices 
continued to fall. 
However, in one respect Berlin was a breakthrough. For the first time at 
an international AIDS conference, alternative voices could be heard, 
attacking the HIV-hypothesis, antiviral therapy, and other AIDS dogmas. The 
AIDS Establishment, which had previously relied upon censorship, was forced 
to respond with a series of slander campaigns and even violence directed 
against AIDS-critics. 
AIDS-dissidents came to Berlin from North and South America, Africa, 
India, and most European countries. Many of us had not met, or even known 
about each other before. During the entire week of the conference, the 
English language version of Fritz Poppenberg's documentary film, The 
AIDS Rebels, was shown in a Berlin cinema. AIDS-critics stood outside 
the conference center (ICC), with signs and leaflets denouncing the 
AIDS lie and the rat poison, AZT, and calling for a 
boycott of Wellcome. On Berlin's Open Channel Television, a total of 9 hours 
of AIDS-critical programs were shown, produced by Peter Schmidt and Kawi 
Schneider. For one day, before the conference organizers retaliated, 
AIDS-critics had a table inside the ICC itself (about which more below). 
And, not least important, some mainstream journalists began to criticize 
AIDS-orthodoxies, and to demand a hearing for alternative views. 
At the first press conference (6 June), several journalists asked 
conference organizer Karl-Otto Habermehl why no alternative viewpoints were 
represented. Why had not an invitation been issued to the foremost 
AIDS-critic, Peter Duesberg? Habermehl said that Duesberg had not submitted 
an abstract, and that alternative voices had not been excluded: they 
were represented at the conference by Act Up. Journalists were not satisfied 
with his answer, and pointed out that the conference had issued special 
invitations to members of Act Up and Project Inform, as well as to the 
discredited American AIDS expert, Robert Gallo. Habermehl angrily refused to 
respond, and the moderator said that no more such questions could be 
allowed. 
Later on the 6th, Act Up held a press conference, attended by only a 
handful of media people. Most of the 300 Act Up members had the 950 DM 
entrance fee waived by the organizers. Many of them had travelled to Berlin, 
staying in luxurious hotels with swimming pools, with all expenses paid by 
Wellcome Pharmaceuticals, the manufacturer of AZT. In response to a 
journalist's question, the Act Up representative from London admitted that 
his group had taken 50,000 pounds from Wellcome,

Re: [CTRL] Coo-Cou-Coup

1999-01-09 Thread MICHAEL pUGLIESE0


 -Caveat Lector-

Correct me if I'm wrong but Gore would only be precluded from running for
reelection in
2004, due to constitutional amendment passed after F.D.R.'s 4 terms.

michael

YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, M.A. Johnson wrote:
 A. America is NOT a democracy.

 Correct.  But you'll get 'dumb sheep' looks from the majority of U.S.
 citizens to whom you point that out...

 Since AlGore will be sworn-in if Mr. Clinton is removed or
 resigns this emotive is nonsense.

 Yes...which has lead me to wonder if perhaps there's 'something' which
 the Dems are afraid may come out in the impeachment trial which may lead
 to Gore's impeachment...

 The only other thing they may have feared would have been if Clinton was
 removed from office, or resigned, before January 20th, in which case Gore
 would be precluded from running for the presidency in 2000...but it seems
 now the process will go beyond the 19th, in which case if Gore ends up
 in 'the cat birds seat', he can still run for the office in 2000...

 A move which would -- on the surface -- seem to put the Dems in an
 advantageous position...so one has to wonder if their bleatings regarding
 'overthrowing the past 2 elections' is so much smoke and mirrors, or if
 it reflects fear of something deeper being exposed that may just possibly
 put the 2000 elections in the laps of the Republicans...

 It may explain why they don't want witnesses at the impeachment trial...

 D. Since when did we decide whether or not an American is
guilty/innocent AND establish punishment/non-punishment
by poll?

 Exactly.

 Heck...let's just set up an online kangaroo court, and let 'justice' be
 meted out via all and sundry voting on the Internet...

 And before any of you who think such would be a good idea jump up and say
 so -- just remember that public opinion sways from one end of the
 spectrum to the other ever generation or so...so the public opinion you
 may agree with today will be diametrically opposed to you in another 20
 years or so...

 June

  ===
   The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
   Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
 -- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
  ===
 *---*
 revcoal AT connix DOT com
 *---*
  It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
  address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
  $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
  email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
  terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
  unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
  email.
 **

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:

Re: [CTRL] Truth About Evil

1999-01-09 Thread MICHAEL pUGLIESE0


 -Caveat Lector-

First paragraph sounds exactly like a recent op-ed by Michael Kelly in the
N.Y.Post.
Believe he is a former editor of the New Republic

michael

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 1/9/99 12:11:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:

 
  And this is a tremendously painful prospect, because it is a tremendously
  personal one. There were never many Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in America
  and very few political, cultural and intellectual figures of note among
  them. But such is not the case with communism 

 Oh yes there were.  Many, many of our elite business community, including the
 grandfather of the man who may run for president, George Bush Jr.  And there
 were lots less well known folks as well.  Nazi sympathisers were fairly thick
 on the ground (so to speak).  At least one radio personality of those old
 days, a guy named Rudy who yodeled and whose number one fan was yours truly.
 He suddenly was no longer on the radio, and it was years before a visiting Air
 Force colonel with whom I was discussing espionage mentioned him.  It seems he
 was sending coded messages (by yodeling) with information about the convoys
 leaving the United States for England.   Prudy

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Drudge Report

1999-01-09 Thread BStokes45


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-01-05 12:12:29 EST, you write:


 Since you admire Mr. Harding, would you please share with us some of the
 great man's accomplishments?  What exactly did Warren do?

 How did President Harding revolutionize and transform American society?
 In 1999, do we speak of "the Harding vision" or "the Harding effect"?

 (Did he pull the nation out of a depression?  Did he fight for the
 protection of the civil liberties of all Americans? Did he build a
 national highway system?

 Was he witty? wise? profound?  Perhaps, we need a book devoted to him:
 "The Wit and Wisdom of President Warren Harding."
 But I don't mean to be unkind. He must have done something memorable. Or
 perhaps his special genius, like so many Republicans, was in the
 NOT-DOING.


 Regards,
 Wm
  
  Sounds a lot like Clinton except Clinton doesn't know how to definr the
word "IS" and Clinton is a traitor.  Seems to me I have asked these same
questions about your King... Clinton... what has this low-life done that is so
spectacular??? Still waiting for an answer from the Clintonites.  But, I don't
mean to be unkind... just truthful, I'm not like youe lying hero Clinton.

No Regards,
To those who can't "walk the walk"

Bob Stokes

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 7:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 Hawk had nothing coming to him for defending his position in the debate.  As
 far as I could see, he received nothing he did not respond to honestly and
  effectively.  He also won the pissing contest.
  Jim Norman

Where's the scoresheet?

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: They are trying to stop free speech on the NET


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 10:58:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  If this is true... what is the number on this bill...House or  Senate.
  Our Representatives are so stupid they cannot keep up with bills unless you
  have a number... even though they have their minions to keep up with the
 mail.
I am hearing much debate on whether or not this is true at all.  If it turns
out to be valid, we'll just have to call it the LAST straw. smile

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al

1999-01-09 Thread Gerald Harp


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 6:11:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Hawk really had what was coming to him. I also agree that William 'egged'
him
 on

If any person disagrees with a defender of slavery, does that disagreement
constitute egging on?

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Truth About Evil

1999-01-09 Thread Barb Witt


 -Caveat Lector-

From the Wasington Post, Wednesday, January 6, 1999; Page A25
The Truth About Evil By Michael Kelly

Some months ago, I wrote a column in which I expressed revulsion at an
affectionate feature in the New York Times about a small band of elderly
communists and socialists who do good works among the downtrodden of Los
Angeles and, by the way, still revere Marx and Lenin. For this, Sam
Tanenhaus, author of an estimable and honest biography of Whittaker
Chambers, takes me politely to task in the current New York Review of Books.
My finger-pointing, says Tanenhaus, is emblematic of a regrettable "revival
of the familiar cold war Manichaeanism, whereby the entire burden of world
communism is laid crushingly upon every [Communist Party] member or
sympathizer."
This is a debate worth having, for it is central to the intellectual and
cultural history of this century. It has been, you have to admit, a pretty
Manichaean sort of century: good and evil in the form of democracy and
totalitarianism duking it out for global domination; concentration camps;
gulags; a couple of hundred million dead-that sort of thing. The good was
not absolute (we had Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn on our side, alas), but the
evil was pretty close to pure.

American liberalism came to terms with one face of the century's evil-that
of the Nazis and their allies-immediately, honorably and unequivocally. The
fight to destroy the Nazi version of fascism was waged in such unabashedly
Manichaean terms that we called it The Good War (we were not being ironic
either; only Parisians and a few guys at Oxford knew about irony back then).
And organized American political liberalism-that is, the Democratic Party
and the labor movement-also came to terms soon enough with the communist
version, and firmly rejected it. But the treatment of communist fascism by
liberalism's intellectual and cultural establishments-as distinct from its
mainstream political bodies-has been profoundly different.
The intellectual and cultural elites have never come to terms with
communism as an evil on a par with Nazism and, more important, with their
role in supporting, or at least tolerating, that evil. This failure, which
is one of immense moral dimensions as well as rational, persists. (Witness
the 24-part CNN television series on the Cold War, a history massively
distorted by the light of moral equivalency that shines in Ted Turner's
dim, dim bulb of a mind.)
The failure persists and adapts because it is too large to come to terms
with. Coming to terms means not merely admitting the fundamental evil of
the communist system and its root philosophy (as opposed to admitting the
evil of one or another communist tyrant) but also admitting our own
sympathetic complicity. It means not merely reassessing the century's
political figures but its intellectual and cultural figures too. It means
reassessing us.

And this is a tremendously painful prospect, because it is a tremendously
personal one. There were never many Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in America
and very few political, cultural and intellectual figures of note among
them. But such is not the case with communism.
Twentieth-century political, cultural and intellectual history is thickly
peopled with respected and even revered figures-labor leaders, progressive
reformers, novelists, playwrights, artists, luminaries of the news and
entertainment businesses-who were deeply supportive of a system and
philosophy that we now know beyond doubt was every bit as monstrous as the
Nazi regime, was morally indistinguishable from the Nazi regime. And on the
more intimate level, when we talk about American communists or communist
sympathizers, we are talking about family.
So when we contemplate admitting the full profundity of communism's evil,
we are contemplating a radical reevaluation of everyone who traveled some
distance with that evil. We are talking about reevaluating Upton Sinclair
and John Steinbeck and Pablo Picasso and Ernest Hemingway and Charlie
Chaplin. And we are talking also about reevaluating Uncle Harry and Aunt
Edith and Grandpa and maybe even dear old Dad.
What further complicates matters is we know that Uncle Harry and Aunt Edith
are good people. They sided with the communists because they sincerely
believed in the promise of communism to address the wrongs of our own
society-its gross class inequities, its racial oppression, the rough
cruelties of capitalism.
But the fellow travelers were wrong, and in their wrong, they helped to
perpetuate a system that caused immense human suffering. To say this is not
to gainsay that most Communist Party members and sympathizers were
motivated by the desire to make a better world, nor is it to lay the whole
burden of communism's crimes on their shoulders.
It is simply to say this: At some point it becomes a seriously immoral act
to refuse to acknowledge the truth. At some point, you have to ask whether
it is morally acceptable to regard those who yet refuse to come

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

I will agree, that there is much 'blame' to go around during the recent
'STUPID' bs flamings.  And I really don't want to be a recess monitor.

Sometimes I figure, if ya dish it out better expect to deal with it. Mostly it
is a bore.

Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal
distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical
outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and interpretation"
are futile and a waste of time. MHO

And personally, somekind of hang-up, I guess, but I just don't 'cotton' to
racism, bigotry and slavery, 'authorized' by the Bible, Chamber of Commerce or
whatever.
Excuse me.

And besides what/whose sides?

There is the cryptocracy. Their helpers and us, hoi polloi.

Om
K

If people wish to pursue a more broader range discusion list, relating to
conspiracy theory, that can be accomplished. But the utility of CTRL goes down
when there is a high posting level and a lot of 'noise'.

In a message dated 1/8/99 8:19:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides
and
if one

goes, they should all go.

Jim norman
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] External Forces


 -Caveat Lector-

McAfee from Network Associates.  It has a built-in webscan feature that
checks e-mail attachments.  I've used Dr Solomon (which I believe has been
Hoover-ed by McAfee) and Thunderbyte.  I graduated to McAfee when it became
the flagship virus checker for the folks that make NutsBolts (another nice
little group of programs).



AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.

--
: From: Harry Hendrickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] External Forces
: Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 3:52 PM
:
:  -Caveat Lector-
:
: Hello Richard,
:   Suggest you purchase top of the line anti-virus program now before the
: higher functions of your system come crashing down as well. I have a
: moderately well designed system but I will be installing the best
: anti-virus system I can afford. Too much at stake to lose my hard drive
at
: this juncture ! Ask some of the "computer kids" out here what they would
: suggest. I may listen in myself. Good luckharry
:
: --
:  From: Source - Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Subject: Re: [CTRL] External Forces
:  Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 9:27 AM
: 
:   -Caveat Lector-
: 
:  I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I have had MAJOR
: technical errors when passing and recieving information, particularly
: regarding Mind Control or Government conspiracies. I also accessed a CIA
: affiliated site and was infected with a serious virus.
: 
:  Can anyone deny or confirm if this is intentional and how it
happens
: 
:  MARK wrote:
:   -Caveat Lector-
:  
:  Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and
Remote
:  Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my
e-mail
:  is working only sporadically.
:  
:  Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
:  Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??
:  
:  MARK
:  
:  DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
:  ==
:  CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
: propagandic
:  screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
: matters
:  and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
: outright
:  frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
: effects
:  spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
: CTRL
:  gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
: readers;
:  be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
: and
:  nazi's need not apply.
:  
:  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
: 

:  Archives Available at:
:  http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
:  
:  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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[CTRL] DeTocqueville


 -Caveat Lector-

From the Un of Virginia, a basic text on American history by a man who
visited a republic to study its democratic form of government.  Note that
the first part is "setting" followed by the author's preface to his work.
The remainder of the text can be found by following the links from

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/home.html

~
From http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/TOUR/beforleav.html

"I have long had the greatest desire to visit North America: I shall go see
there what a great republic is like; my only fear is lest, during that
time, they establish one in France."

Tocqueville, letter to a friend, August (Pierson 31)

Picture

It was October 31, 1830 that Alexis de Tocqueville, and Gustave de Beaumont
submitted a mission request to the French government to travel to America
and study the new prison reforms (Pierson 30). To have their proposal
accepted proved to be somewhat difficult. It was not until February 6, 1831
that the pair were even granted leave. Although they tried, there really
was little hope of convincing the government to fund their trip. The young
gentlemen's families paid for the journey (Pierson 35).

Tocqueville and Beaumont made extensive preparations for their trip. A
large part of their effort went to collecting letters of introduction which
would ensure that they would be received by the finest and most important
people in America. They got copies of Cooper's and Volney's descriptions of
the United States. Other books they took along included a prayer book, and
a two volume daily devotional. They needed to outfit themselves with
clothing for 18 months of travel. Tocqueville's purchases were as follows:

Leather trunk (40 fr.)
with engraved nameplate (3 fr.)
a chapeau rond (25 fr.)
a silk hat recovered (5fr.)
two pair bottines -- half-boots (25 fr. each)
one pair pied en tirant (17 fr.)
a pair de fort last -- laced shoes? (12 fr.)
a pair resoled (10 fr.)

(Pierson 38-9)

His other furnishings included his clothing, a gun, and writing supplies.
Everything had to be packed into the one trunk. Beaumont had similar
possessions with the addition of two sketchbooks, a watercolor set,
brushes, pen, ink, and his flute (Pierson 39).

From http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/preface.htm

Democracy in America

Author's Introduction

AMONG the novel objects that attracted my attention during my stay in the
United States, nothing struck me more forcibly than the general equality of
condition among the people. I readily discovered the prodigious influence
that this primary fact exercises on the whole course of society; it gives a
peculiar direction to public opinion and a peculiar tenor to the laws; it
imparts new maxims to the governing authorities and peculiar habits to the
governed.

I soon perceived that the influence of this fact extends far beyond the
political character and the laws of the country, and that it has no less
effect on civil society than on the government; it creates opinions, gives
birth to new sentiments, founds novel customs, and modifies whatever it
does not produce. The more I advanced in the study of American society, the
more I perceived that this equality of condition is the fundamental fact
from which all others seem to be derived and the central point at which all
my observations constantly terminated.

I then turned my thoughts to our own hemisphere, and thought that I
discerned there something analogous to the spectacle which the New World
presented to me. I observed that equality of condition, though it has not
there reached the extreme limit which it seems to have attained in the
United States, is constantly approaching it; and that the democracy which
governs the American communities appears to be rapidly rising into power in
Europe.

Hence I conceived the idea of the book that is now before the reader.

It is evident to all alike that a great democratic revolution is going on
among us, but all do not look at it in the same light. To some it appears
to be novel but accidental, and, as such, they hope it may still be
checked; to others it seems irresistible, because it is the most uniform,
the most ancient, and the most permanent tendency that is to be found in
history.

I look back for a moment on the situation of France seven hundred years
ago, when the territory was divided among a small number of families, who
were the owners of the soil and the rulers of the inhabitants; the right of
governing descended with the family inheritance from generation to
generation; force was the only means by which man could act on man; and
landed property was the sole source of power.

Soon, however, the political power of the clergy was founded and began to
increase: the clergy opened their ranks to all classes, to the poor and the
rich, the commoner and the noble; through the church, equality penetrated
into the government, and he who as a

[CTRL] Coup de Satire, then Coup de Pat


 -Caveat Lector-

From http://www.thepornographyofpower.com/tom30.html

The Pornography
Picture
of Power

"I'm Wide Awake.
 I'm Wide Awake.
  I'm Not Sleeping."
-"BAD", U2

Tom J. Wright

A Semi-Weekly Column of Political Commentary
December 15-December 31, 1998

Clinton Impeached:  Republican Coup D'Etat Nearly Complete
AND
Where Did These Lunatics Come From?


"Make no mistake, my colleagues, not all coups are accompanied by the sound
of marching boots and rolling tanks.  Some, like today, are wrapped in a
constitutional veneer, softened by pious assertions of solemn obligation
and duty, but the result is the same:  defiance of the public will and
rejection of the regular political process."

---Representative Nita Lowey, Democrat from New York, 1998


Not since the CIA's coup d'etat of November 22, 1963, when the men in
that organization murdered United States President John F. Kennedy, have we
seen anything like what just happened in Washington.  The only difference
is that the coup of 1963 was bloody.  This one, in December of 1998, is not
(so far).

Now granted, we do not yet know if this Republican-led coup will
ultimately remove the President from office entirely as the coup of 1963
did, or merely leave him seriously wounded politically.  And this coup is
designed to kill the President's political life not his actual life
(although there are of course plenty of anti-Clinton zealots and fanatical
Republicans out there who would gladly kill the man himself if they could).


Nonetheless, we are dealing with an equally dangerous band of zealots
whose sole thought when they awake in the morning is "I hate Clinton.  I
hate Clinton.  I hate Clinton.  I hate..." and whose last words at night
before bed continue the mantra:  "I hate Clinton.  I hate Clinton.  I
hate..."

And, as you can imagine, it is awfully hard to get anything done when
your mind does nothing but repeat those three words all day.  That explains
of course, why the Republican Congress has no major accomplishments in the
last six years, except for attacks on Bill Clinton.

It is an obsession on the part of the Republican party bordering on
dementia.  And it is what makes the Trent Lotts and Dick Armeys and Henry
Hydes and Tom DeLays and Ken Starrs of Washington politics so dangerous.
Dangerous to democracy and dangerous to America.

These self-righteous fanatics would be labeled as the political
terrorists that they are and put behind bars for life as menaces to a free
society if they hadn't managed to first get elected to Congress.  In
Congress, these nuts have been able to cloak themselves in an aura of
respectability that they do not deserve.

How did this horde of locusts ever get to Washington in the first
place?  Most are Frankensteinian products of the Christian Coalition, an
organization with a frightening amount of money at its disposal and a very
successful grassroots program in place to get their pet monsters elected to
Congress.  This is especially true of those in The House of
Representatives, who are elected from small Congressional districts, not
statewide, as Senators are.  Therefore, it is easier to get a fanatic into
the House than the Senate.

This is why most of the coup planners are in the House, not the Senate,
and why the strongest invective, most personal attacks, and insidious
partisanship also are occurring mainly in the House.  Once in the House,
these Freaks of Nature slithered into leadership positions, number one,
because the Republicans controlled the House and number two, because Gnewt
GetRich, their political idol, helped put them there.  Gnewt GetRich named
the most rabid of these fanatical Clinton-haters lieutenants in his Army of
the Apocalypse.

This freaky band of Wingnuts has even cowed moderate Republicans into
voting their way on impeachment.  This has been done by threatening the
moderate Republicans with the prospect of facing a Christian
Coalition-backed Republican opponent in the primaries of their next
Congressional election.

Of course, as one concerned citizen wrote in a letter to the editor of
The San Francisco Chronicle, the coup planners were also aided by other
Republicans, some moderate, who just wanted plain old revenge against
Clinton.  Revenge because of his two electoral victories in two
Presidential elections, revenge because of the ousters of Nixon, Dole,
Gingrich, and company, ad nauseum infinitum.

But, it is GetRich's Band of Zealots who are running the show.  They
are why Congress is so full of partisanship and hatred and personal
attacks.  Gnewt GetRich, with his Politics of Hate (patent still pending),
and the Christian Coalition, with its Holy War, are the source of the
cancer eating away the American body politic.

CNN, a multi-billion dollar operation with hundreds of so-called
"experts" at its disposal, tried to figure this out on the day of the
impeachment vote, but failed.  And millionaire celebrity pundits everywhere

Re: [CTRL] Tunnels - GREAT URL

1999-01-09 Thread RGates8254


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 9:11:01 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  Hiya Robert,

  Can't say that I'm a Hoagland fan.  I believe that there are tunnels for
  very innocent reasons.  But why would we need 5 and 10 mile long tunnels in
  the middle of no where?  There's a 9 mile tunnel in Chama.  I've been to
  Chama.  It's dinky little town - there's nothing there.  I mean a small
  town - with a gas pump and that's about it!  Now, the southwest is famous
  for old mines but, I suspect that this isn't an old mining tunnel.  It's a
  little weird.  I could ask around and see what the local folk have to say
  about it.

  Hilary
  Hilary,
  As I recall from running the numbers the Chama NM/CO tunnel is 12.6 miles
long
and 10.92 feet in diameter.  Where it is listed as a BuRec project, I would
imagine
it has something to do with water...although you never know.
  If you happen to be in the area sometime, I would be curious as to
what the locals say.
  Up in Idaho in a little town on I-15 between Idaho Falls and the Montana
border is a  town called Dubois.  Just north of Dubois is a large Dept of
Agriculture "sheep station."
To set the flavor of this  picture the Dept  of Agriculture station which was
used as a cover for a circlular underground lab which worked on viruses
and such in the movie Andromeda Strain.
 When you talk to the folks in Dubois (of which the small community
supposedly depends on sheep station money for its small economy) nobody
and I mean absolutly NOBODY has any clue what is done, other then to say
something  about "sheep research."When you ask some locals the question
"do you have family that works there?"  The answer seems to be "yes, but they
don't
talk about it"
Usually is one newspaper article  a year about some sheep this or that and
that is the size of it.
  Then you have the LA County Dept of Corrections (Yup you read it right,
Los Angles Calif) BUS that appears in Dubois during the night about twice
a year or so.  Apparently the bus stays for "a couple of weeks" then it drives
off again in the middle of the night.  Supposedly nobody knows who the driver
is, why the bus is their, or 'who' comes in the bus but they are so used to
its
appearance that it isn't given a 2nd thought.
   Probably just as strange as a 12.6 mile tunnel out in the middle of no
where. :)

Cheers,
Robert

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men


 -Caveat Lector-

Gerald Harp wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 1/5/99 6:05:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 writes:

  the nation
   and the south and even the black population of the south would probably
   have been better off if Lincoln had not forced the south through
   military means back into the union.

 You don't seem
 to understand much about human nature.  Slavery was not just an economic
 issue.
 It was a way of life and cheap self esteem.  It was the dark pleasure of
 having absolute power over others.  Slavery had deeply corrupted the South.
 To think that the results of slavery were typically benign or even neutral is
 fantasy.  It is also naive to think that the slave
 masters would ever have voluntarily given up their corrupt power.  Don't just
 focus  on  the shallow economics oriented histories, consider and read about
 the social/psychological realities.

 Jerry


So I don't know much about human nature? But you, I suppose are an
expert. Have you ever lived in the south? Have you ever really gotten to
know someone who had been a member of the Klu Klux Klan? Do you have a
friend who is black and lived in the south and is married to the
daughter of an Alabama farmer? You have NO comprehension of what you are
talking about when you start prattling about how "corrupted" the south
might have been or is now. You are the one who is living in a fantasy
world. Is it naive to think that the slave masters would ever have
voluntarily given up the "corrupt" powers? Is so, why had Lee and others
freed freed their slaves? Yes, there were economic reasons to believe
slavery would end. But there were other forces that would have ended it
as well. You are the one who is fantasizing in order to justify in your
own mind the federal government's war on the south and its imposition of
powers it was never granted by the Constitution.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] House Cleaning


 -Caveat Lector-

From http://www.rollcall.com/newsscoops/3rdscoop.html

House Clerk's Office Shake-up Continues

Two Assistant Clerks Fired After Carle Resignation

By Ethan Wallison

Two top officials at the House Clerk's office were fired this week in the
wake of a December audit that contained allegations of poor to lax
management at the chamber's key procedural division.

Ray Strong and Julie Perrier, both assistant clerks, were key lieutenants
under House Clerk Robin Carle, who resigned last month in the aftermath of
an inspector general's audit.

The audit focused on lax management practices throughout the office. It
also led to a referral to the House ethics committee of potential charges
against Carle, who was alleged to have used a House credit card to pay for
hundreds of dollars in personal expenses.

Carle was also alleged to have used staff at the Clerk's office for
personal errands, which would constitute a felony.

While the ethics committee loses jurisdiction once a potential target of an
investigation leaves Congress, it can refer information that suggests
criminal wrongdoing to federal law enforcement entities for possible
prosecution.

Ethics committee chief counsel Ted Van Der Meid refused to discuss any
details related to the Carle matter.

A knowledgeable source said the firings of the two assistant clerks were
not related to the alleged malfeasance by Carle, but were part of a larger
shake-up at the Clerk's office, where management problems have been cited
for more than a year.

Deputy Clerk Jeff Trandahl, who made the firings, has been appointed
interim Clerk while a replacement for Carle is sought. The fired aides did
not respond to phone inguiries.

House Democrats, who only Tuesday received a copy of the Nov. 24 ethics
committee referral, were agitated by what they claimed were conspicuous
efforts to keep them uninformed about the extent of the problems at the
Clerk's office.

They charged that Republicans had tried to gloss over the problems in order
to avoid embarrassment similar to that which followed revelations of
malfeasance by former Chief Administrative Officer Scott Faulkner two years
ago.

"The whole IG thing was set up when we were in the majority, because
[then-Rep.] Newt Gingrich [R-Ga.] and the others were complaining about the
way we were running this place," said one Democratic leadership aide.
"Here, they have clearly corrupted the process."

A senior Republican aide disputed the allegations, contending that
Democrats on the House Oversight Committee were kept informed at every
stage of the audit process.

The aide said no access should have been given to the ethics committee
referral.

Carle, 42, who was the first female Clerk in the history of the House,
declined to respond to repeated inquiries, citing the ongoing ethics
matter.

Through an associate, she released a statement to Roll Call yesterday
saying she took "full responsibility" for "various operational concerns,
specifically certain expense reports" cited by the inspector general.

Carle said she has reimbursed the government for $619 in questionable
expenses. She did not address the allegations that she had misused staff at
the Clerk's office.

The IG report, which was released Dec. 16, 1998, painted a picture of a
Clerk's office laggard in numerous basic management areas.

Among other things, the report noted that Carle had failed to establish any
policies and procedures for the use of government vehicles and computer
equipment. There were also no procedures established for the use of two
government charge cards -- an American Express card meant for travel
expenses and an Exxon card meant for gas.

"Specifically, there is no guidance prohibiting personal use of such
resources," said the report, which was prepared by John Lainhart, the
inspector general. "Without adequate policies and procedures in this area,
the Office of the Clerk is vulnerable to abuse and misuse."

Elsewhere, the audit refers to an anonymous "manager" who reported that no
staff meetings had been held in more than a year.

The ethics referral was unavailable but some of its details were made
available through sources who had read the material.

Among other things, Carle was alleged in the referral to have used a
staffer to put up her Christmas tree and to fill out paperwork for an
adoption she sought, according to sources who also said the referral cites
routine absenteeism by the Clerk throughout the last year of her tenure.

Carle was appointed Clerk following the GOP's ascension to the majority in
1994.

A Carle associate said the irregularities associated with Carle's use of a
House credit card stemmed from her decision to forgo the chauffeur-driven
Town Car available to House officers in favor of her Jeep, which she also
used for personal matters.

Carle retained the chauffeur and wound up driving the Jeep for personal use
on gas charged by the chauffeur

Re: [CTRL] Proud to be an American?

1999-01-09 Thread J. Dolan


 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:17:25 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 -Caveat Lector-
 snip

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand
by the
president or any public official, save exactly to the degree that he
himself
stands by the country" -Theodore Roosevelt

Great Quote! I'll add that to my list. Too bad I just did a report on
Teddy Roosevelt, that would have been a great addition to my report.

I'll post it on my friend's BBS...

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Coup de Satire, then Coup de Pat

1999-01-09 Thread RGates8254


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 11:59:00 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Tom J. Wright

  A Semi-Weekly Column of Political Commentary
  December 15-December 31, 1998

  Clinton Impeached:  Republican Coup D'Etat Nearly Complete
  AND
  Where Did These Lunatics Come From?
  What Tom, author of this commentary, fails to describe is that in order for
his perceived "Republican Coup D'Etat" to work, 15 Senators of the party he
likely supports and pays homage to have to vote to remove from office.
If that happens, no matter what anybody says, claims or does, it is
no longer a Republican effort, but both a Republican and Democratic
determination
that this President is no longer fit to serve in office.
  The truth is there was no Republican plot to get the President.  If
anything, the
so called plot originated inside the Oval Office when the President dropped
his pants
to a 21 year old intern many times then lied about it.  Had the President
told the truth in January of 1998, we would  never have been at this point.
  According to Washington Insiders, the plan amongst Democats
is to make sure Clinton is still in office
until either Jan 20th, or 21st, when Clintons 2 year mark is up
BECAUSE Gore can run for office TWICE after serving out Clintons term.
If Clinton resigns or is removed from office before that Gore can only run
for 1 term AFTER serving out the balance of Clintons term.  See the
political difference a day makes

brevity snip

  Get loud.  Get rowdy.  Get serious.  The VAST MAJORITY of Americans
  want censure, not impeachment or removal from office.  This huge majority
  of voting Americans cannot and will not be ignored by Senators anxious to
  retain their seats in Congress.
  This country is governed by the rule of law,
not the rule by lynch mob, i.e. rule by whatever the majority decides.
Imagine what Tom would do if an opinion poll was done, or the "vast majority
decided"in his home town which advocated tearing down his house to make
room for some new  community something.  Tom would instantly go and want
to talk about the rule of law and the Constitution as opposed to what the so
called
vast majority want.



  In the long term, Democrats and the American People must do more,
  though.  They must get out and vote, as so many did in November, in each
  and every election.  However, this is especially true of the year 2000
  elections.  If the People really get out and vote, Democrats will control
  both Houses of Congress and the White House.
  Inspite of the "pending" impeachment threat against a President that
supposedly has over a 65 percent approval rating from the people of America,
 these same people  still permitted the Republicans to retain a majority.
Before the election many of  the  Democrat blow hards were all proclaiming
how the American public was sick of a ll this, how they were going to vote the
Republicans out etc etc.


  That still leaves Republicans in control of The Supreme Court, the
  majority of Governorships, and most of the Establishment Media, often
  called the fourth branch of government.  However, it will put a serious
  dent in Republican plans to practice more of their slash and burn system of
  anti-democracy which they've become so good at these past six years.
  If you believe in the Constitution then you are anti-democracy...because
you realize just as the founders did that a democracy is dangerous and ends
in a very violent death.  America is a Constitutional Republic where the rule
of law is greater then any ONE person, any GROUP of persons, any IDEA's
whether they be conservative or liberal and any POLITCAL party.

  All of this is very doable, my friends.  A little-remembered, but much
  worried-over fact (by the Repubs), is that in terms of the raw number of
  voters out there, the Democrats are the majority party in the United States
  (with Independents running a strong second).  And since we have a
  winner-take-all system of elections, instead of the much more civilized
  proportional representation, Dems have an advantage.
  Democrats lost in 1980, 1984, 1988, lost Congress in 1994, 96 and 98.  So
what is the point about having an advantage.


  The Republicans though are able to compete by utilizing their most
  cherished, most highly-valued and sacred commodity:  $$money$$.  Lots of
  it.  Preferably corporate.  And in large, unmarked bills, thank you very
  much.
  Tom fails to comprehend that both partys milk the money cow.  It was
Democrats who were in power and who gave us the current system of soft money
in 1974/75 during the post watergate campaign money reforms.
Of course back then Democrats were milking the money cow major big time and
people like Tom didn't care as long as his party was at the money trough.

  But mainly, the Republicans think American voters will forget all about
  the Republican coup of 1998, come 2000, because of voter ignorance and
  memory deficiency.

Re: [CTRL] The Truth About Remote Viewing and Much More

1999-01-09 Thread RGates8254

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/7/99 1:36:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  Subject: The Truth About Remote Viewing and Much More
  From: "Jerry Newport" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thu, Jan 7, 1999 12:41 AM
  Message-id: kv_k2.1067$[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  The Truth About Remote Viewing and Much More

  The CIA and the USA military have shown a great deal of interest in what is
  being called remote viewing. What this is, is the ability to call up
  images and sounds in ones own mind of far away places even though they are
  not physically there to gain information about others that can be used to
  the persons advantage.

  Whenever I hear about remote viewing, my mind immediatly reverts to Courtney
Brown,
and Ed Dames.  Over the year we heard such pronouncements  (this is a very
short list of a long list of tales and remote viewing) from the supposed RV
community of:
  1) There is a martian hive colony living underground in New Mexico and in
1996 the martians were going to come out and invade earth.  Didn't happen.
  2) After amateur astronomer Chuck Sharmak unloaded his pictures of the
supposed companion object allegedly following Hale Bopp, within 3 days of the
announcement the remote viewers confirmed the claim.  No Companion object and
Sharmak apologized for
his mistake.
  3) The remote viewers told us that they had RV'ed how the earth, when it
transversed through the path of Hale Bopp was going to get some type of
pathagon which would destory all grass and other green plant life.  Never
Happened.
   4) We had remote viewers all extolling why the other remote viewers were
full of crap, but they weren't.  Partially true.  Both were full of crap.

Cheers,
Robert

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Ziggurats for Danno...

1999-01-09 Thread Daniel Holly

 -Caveat Lector-

"-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:24:26 -0500
From: Homer Simpson 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: W Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Victory City

I received your E mail of Dec. l8, l998 but there was no message. Could
this
have been lost in transmission somehow? Please try again, as I will be
interested in hearing from you.  Homer Simpson"

Yup..

.Homer Simpson meet Saddam Hussein.
Saddam Hussein meet Homer Simpson.

You have very sane,smart and powerful people backing
your loony *ziggurats for all* programs.

Have you hugged your ziggurat [or Saddam] today?

Danno

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 10:59 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Ziggurats for Danno...

 -Caveat Lector-

we the Ziggurat builders of the world are conspiring against you
Danno.
FWP.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:05:42 -0800 (PST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Future-Cities] Victory City

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

For Future-Cities list. See http://www.victorycities.com. Seems to be one
of the city-in-one-building designs like the Ziggurats of Keesy and
Shimizu or Bini's Tower City which would be built on shallow coastal seas.
FWP.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:24:26 -0500
From: Homer Simpson 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: W Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Victory City

I received your E mail of Dec. l8, l998 but there was no message. Could
this
have been lost in transmission somehow? Please try again, as I will be
interested in hearing from you.  Homer Simpson

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

*** With world population increasing at almost 100,000,000/year what will
cities of the next century and next millenium be like? ***

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Slavery - was Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

nurev wrote:


  (Though I can
  understand the problem of those who (like Jefferson) inherited slaves
  and did not understand what to do about the situation). I don't,
  however, believe that Jesus would have called upon his disciples to take
  up the sword against their owners.

 That's exactly what he did.


What is the chapter and verse on this? I don't remember anything like
this at all.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Howard: Baseless accusations


 -Caveat Lector-

Edward Britton wrote:

 Yes, I believe, based on what I have read and have heard from Libertarian
 pundits, that Libertarians subscribe to the same basic philosophies as
 Republicans with respect to government. The only possible exception, again,
 according to my experience and research, is that Libertarians are more
 closely aligned with anarchy than fascism.
***
Republicans, in general, advocate both economic and social
interventions. Libertarians advocate neither. That seems to me to be a
rather greater difference then you would indicate above.

In a recent discussion with a very liberal friend of mine he asked me
for my definition of fascism. I replied that it was a system of
government which does not own the means of production (as in communism)
but controls these businesses and society in general through regulation.
He agreed with me on this. What is your definition of fascism?

Both groups seek a
 rationalization for an otherwise socially heinous subscription to social
 Darwinism.

***
Please define what you mean by social Darwinism. I have never heard a
libertarian say that they were a social Darwinist.

 Yes, I have labored through Mein Kamph, and I also realize that there is
 only an ideological difference at best between Hitler's "form of
 government" and that proposed, in-practice, by Republicans and
 Libertarians. This is especially true in regard to the need for political
 scapegoats (e.g., the homeless or welfare recipients) and scapegoating
 (e.g., stereotyping).

***
The need for scapegoats is a form of government? You mean like the
Department of Scapegoating?


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

[CTRL] Tetrasil (tetrasilver tetroxide)

1999-01-09 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 Re: Colloidal silver, (the) Marvin Antelman
 ---
 Tetrasil: Cure for AIDS

 Author:EEllinwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:  1998/01/07
 Forums:hiv.aidsweekly
 ---

 Foundation for Incurable Diseases
 28 Overland Avenue, Cranston, RI 02910
 (401) 942-8399 voice/fax -
 please limit faxes to 2 pgs (no cover needed)

 06 January 1998   Release No.: 980106

 For Immediate Release:

 CURE FOR AIDS AT HAND!

 The Foundation for Incurable Diseases is pleased to announce it
 has come to an agreement with Dr. Marvin Antelman of Antelman
 Technologies, which will provide to those suffering from AIDS
 a cure for little or no cost!

 Dr. Antelman has developed Tetrasil (r) (tetrasilver tetroxide)
 which is a patented bioinorganic antipathogenic molecular crystal
 device.  Tetrasil kills pathogens by electrocuting them!

 Dr. Antelman, whose work throughout the years has varied from
 innovative designs for nuclear submarine reactors and smart card
 batteries, discovered that silver (Ag) actually is formed by Ag
 and Ag3, and it is this discovery that lead him to the development
 of Tetrasil.  (Tetrasil is not colloidal silver.)  Through the
 construction of a molecular sized semiconductor, Dr. Antelman was
 able to force natural silver (which is actually ag2) into its two
 separate components of Ag and Ag3 and to keep them separate, thus
 retaining the potential for an electron discharge.  In layman's
 terms, one section of the Tetrasil machine contains an extra
 electron charge that desparately wants to cross to the other side,
 but cannot due to the manner in which the molecular machine is
 constructed.  The molecular machine is, thereby, polarized and
 charged, and remains so until triggered.  The Tetrasil machine is
 triggered when it comes into contact with a pathogen (thus the
 reason for the name "anti-pathogenic molecular crystal device").
 Pathogens (bacteria and virii alike) are drawn to the device by
 strong covalent forces, and when they come into contact with the
 machine they are locked into place by these forces.  The extra
 electron charge is then free to make its way to the other side of
 the Tetrasil machine by traversing the cellular membrane of the
 pathogen, which it immediately does.  The 2 volt discharge
 electrocutes the pathogen in the process.  A chelation process is
 triggered as a result and both the Tetrasil machine and the dead
 pathogen bound to it are removed by the liver.  The liver is
 stressed, but not damaged.

 Tetrasil is classed as an EPA Class IV substance - the SAFEST
 rating available, which means it is safe for human consumption.
 EPA Class IV status is equivalent to FDA Stage One approval.

 Tetrasil has redefined the standards by which the govt. judges
 efficacy against e-coli: nothing works faster and more effectively
 than Tetrasil.

 In human clinical AIDS trials, a SINGLE IV injection of Tetrasil
 cured 8 of 10 terminal AIDS patients, who showed no sign of disease
 one year after treatment.  The two other patients succumbed due to
 the damange already inflicted by the disease.  It was too late for
 them.

 Tetrasil will be distributed:

 -  as a cure for FAIDS (feline AIDS - 30% of all cats suffer from
the disease) in the USA, for which FDA approval is not needed.
 -  as spray disinfectants and wipes
 -  as treatment for drinking water and waste water (no poisonous
chlorine needed any longer)
 -  as disinfectant for cooling towers (no more legionaires disease)
 -  AS A CURE FOR HUMAN AIDS
 -  and many other uses

 Dr. Antelman turned down millions of dollars from an NIH associated
 group that wanted all rights to Tetrasil because he knew they would
 make the treatment too costly or suppress it altogether.
 (Dr. Antelman knows how the system works and is disgusted by it.)

 Tetrasil has the potential to cure practically all disease caused
 by pathogens, from TB, to the common cold.  Dr. Antelman, an
 orthodox rabbi, is a righteous man, who seeks to help ease human
 suffering, not profit from it.  (Rabbi Marvin S. Antelman is
 a member of The Supreme Rabbinic Court, aka 'the Sanhedrin',
 the oldest established court in the world.)

 The Foundation for Incurable Diseases needs public support to
 bring this modern miracle to the people of the world.

 The pharmaceutical industry is already rallying to stonewall
 distribution of Tetrasil, because it will replace all their
 poisonous (and highly profitable) treatments for AIDS -- all of
 which will kill a healthy person.  Help us fight the true killers
 -- the pharmaceutical industry.  More people die from treatment for
 AIDS than from the disease itself.  The time has come to cease this
 nonsense.

 No one need ever die of AIDS again.

 For information, please write to the above address, or e-mail
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Edwin Ellinwood
 FID

[CTRL] Zionism and the Conspiracy

1999-01-09 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 from:  http://reformed-theology.org/html/israel.htm

 Zionism and the Conspiracy


  The Nation Of Israel
   by Robert L. Pierce

   "Zionism is the most stupendous fallacy in
   Jewish history"  --Henry Morgenthau, Sr.* 1


 To learn the background behind the modern Nation of Israel we
 need again to go back in history, this time to the year 1881 and
 the city of St. Petersburg in Czarist Russia.  There, in March,
 the movement to establish the Nation of Israel received its
 energizing impetus from the explosion of a bomb.  The bomb,
 thrown by a Russian revolutionary, murdered the benign
 Czar Alexander II, ending his policy of conciliation toward
 the Jews of Russia and inaugurating an oppressive reign under
 Czar Alexander III.

 Within months after the assassination, the Russian minister of
 the interior, Count Nicolai Ignatiev, announced that, since the
 tolerant policies of Alexander II had failed, harsh measures
 against Russian Jewry were now in order.2  The notorious pogroms,
 anti-Jewish riots under thinly-veiled government sponsorship,
 soon followed, with the loss of many Jewish lives and the
 extensive destruction of Jewish property.  Next came a series of
 anti-Jewish decrees, termed "temporary regulations", which came
 to be known as the "May Laws" since they were placed into effect
 on May 3, 1882.  These "temporary" laws were so repressive and
 restrictive on Jewish life that, by the year 1900, nearly 40% of
 Russia's Jews were dependent upon charity.3  The combined effect
 of the pogroms and the May Laws drove the Jews of Russia, in
 desperation, to seek relief in whatever direction it could be
 found.  As chance would have it, leadership was available to
 the Russian Jews in either of two directions.

 One direction was into the underground revolutionary movement,
 and a minority of Jews did indeed become revolutionaries,
 participating in the subversive movement which culminated in the
 successful Communist subversion of Kerensky's government in late
 1917, and in the consolidation of Communist control by 1922.
 Although the presence of many Jews in leadership positions in
 the Communist revolution has led some observers to the mistaken
 conclusion that Communism is a Jewish conspiracy, those Jews were
 in fact driven toward and led into an already-existing conspiracy
 by the events of 1881 and 1882.  As all students of the Master
 Conspiracy are well aware, the Conspiracy by then was at least
 a hundred years old, fully capable of having planned and
 perpetrated those events.  Certainly the Conspiracy benefited
 immensely from the entry into the revolutionary movement of
 so many Jews.

 The second direction in which the hard-pressed Jews of Russia
 were encouraged to seek relief was emigration from the country.
 The idea of Zionism, the return of Jews to their original
 homeland of Palestine, had been discussed academically among a
 few Jewish leaders for many years, but very little of a practical
 nature had been accomplished.  One of the first to promote the
 Zionist idea was Zvi Hirsch Kalischer, in writings published
 during the period 1843 to 1862, but most of the religious Jews of
 his time considered his proposals to be blasphemous.4  Another
 promoter of the idea was Moses Hess, who in 1862 published "Rome
 and Jerusalem."  Hess, a friend of Karl Marx when they were both
 students at the University of Bonn,5 was a collaborator with both
 Marx and Engels,6 a dedicated socialist, and a member of the
 First International.7  Walter Laqueur in his "A History of
 Zionism" remarks at the "curious coincidence" that, in the same
 year of 1862 in which Hess's book "Rome and Jerusalem" appeared
 in western Germany, a pamphlet on the same subject should appear
 in the Hebrew language in eastern Germany, written by Kalischer.
 Laqueur considers it "remarkable" that the two publications,
 emanating from two such diverse sources as a radical socialist
 and an ostensibly Orthodox rabbi, should appear at the same time
 advocating such similar doctrines and political solutions.8
 Laqueur follows the usual pattern of not daring or not wishing
 to call it conspiracy.

 But in the 1860's and 1870's Zionism was an idea whose time had
 not yet come.  It was advocated only by a tiny minority of Jews,
 discussed and debated by a few, denounced by a substantial
 number, and ignored by most.  Since the Jews residing in the
 various European countries were experiencing better treatment
 during the nineteenth century than they had been accustomed to
 in previous centuries, they had no particular incentive for
 emigrating.  But the assassination of Czar Alexander II and the
 tragic events which followed changed all this abruptly so far as
 the Russian Jews were concerned, and it was the Russian Jews who
 provided the main driving force toward Zionism.  The Zionists
 among the Russian Jews were encouraged in their endeavors by

[CTRL] Fwd: CC: Canadian hemp farmers on trial in Nicaragua!

1999-01-09 Thread Jolly Roger







I received the following message from Don Wirtschafer of the Ohio Hempery,
and thought it deserved more attention. This message is a bit long, but it
is important and this will soon become a very big issue.

Don travelled to Nicaragua to testify on behalf of the Canadian hemp
farmers who had their 100 hectares of hemp burned to the ground by US DEA
agents, and who are now charged with widespread cultivation of marijuana.
They face the real possibility of spending time in a Nicaraguan jail for
legally growing 100 hectares of low-THC hemp grown from legally imported
Chinese hemp seed.

-Dana Larsen

**
**


Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:59:48 -0500
From: Don Wirtshafter [EMAIL PROTECTED]

A story is breaking in Nicaragua that should reach the world stage soon.  I
just returned from trying to turn around an ugly situation, but left
without visible results.  I hope some fair treatment in the U.S. and
Canadian media can do some good.

The story starts with a group of Canadian investors who wanted to do some
good for Nicaragua.  Bankers, builders and merchants got together and
incorporated Hemp Agro International with offices in Vancouver, Toronto and
Managua.   Their website (http://www.hempagro.com) describes their project
and development they hoped to bring to the tropics.

Nicaragua stagnates in the aftermath of series of natural disasters and a
U.S. financed civil war.  If there was ever a place to demonstrate
industrial hemp's utility for sustainable economic development, Nicaragua
is it.  Hemp Agro planted 100 acres of Chinese hempseed and hired a
full-time professional botanist to supervise a crop improvement program.
The company envisioned growing a series of hempseed crops, pressing the
seeds for oil, making products from hemp oil and utilizing the stalks for
particleboard.  The project was dependent on their developing an improved
tropical variety of seed hemp, something not being attempted anywhere else
in the world.

The project took on additional significance in the aftermath of Hurricane
Mitch.  Tens of thousands of homes need to be replaced.  The relief
agencies had a choice, cut down thousands of acres of trees for building
materials or accelerate the building of the hempstalk particleboard mill.
Most of the traditional crops suffered heavy damage during the storm, Hemp
Agro's crop withstood the winds and rain.  Fifty employees were busy
harvesting bags full of hemp seed and building a mountain of hemp stalks.

That's when a U.S. DEA agent went ballistic.  One day before Christmas, he
caused an army of black hooded soldiers to move in and occupy the field.
The men each posed for their picture in front of the large signboard that
marked the "Hemp Agro Nicaragua, S.A. Research and Development Site."

See:
http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/archivo/1998/diciembre/24-diciembre-1998/
nacional/nacional10.html

(This and the following links are in Spanish.  For those who do not speak
Spanish, paste these URL's into
http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?  for a rough translation
into English.)

Then they began the long task of gathering the crop in piles and setting
them on fire.

http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/archivo/1998/diciembre/26-diciembre-1998/

Dr. Paul Wylie, the Canadian horticulturist who was hired by the group to
supervise the project, was feeling pretty satisfied with his work in
Nicaragua.  His employees were busy harvesting their first crop of seeds.
He had learned quite a bit about growing hemp in the tropics.

Christmas was approaching and the harvesting would have to stop for the
holidays.  Dr. Wylie was in a taxi on his way back from the bank with the
payroll for his 50 workers.  A black car tried to force them off the road.
A couple of motorcycles approached.  Both Wylie and his driver thought they
were being robbed.  The driver started to head up on the curb to get away
when bullets began tearing up the cab.   Wylie and the driver were
terrified until their attackers finally identified themselves as police.
Wylie thought his troubles were over, but they were just beginning.

Wylie was arrested and taken to the brig.  The same prison that former
dictator, Anastasio Somoza, used for his worst political enemies.  A
perfect movie set for an 1850's western, except it's an historic military
base.  Perched on the rim of the volcano, it's got an incredible view.
Only the prisoners can't see a thing, they are kept in dungeons underground.

In Nicaragua, you are considered guilty until proven innocent.  Forget the
right to counsel, forget the right to remain silent, this is not America.
In the aftermath of his arrest, ten days of hearings took place on the
case, only Wylie had no right to attendor help his attorneys prepare.  He
was locked up tight.  Bail or bond were not available.  Without an
explanation of the charges, Wylie could not even figure out what he was
being accused of.  Thankfully, his wife was

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

You own the list. You can do what ever you want with it. However,
your banning Hawk from the list without even a warning or and ending to
that particular thread is objectionable to me. Will I be next? Now I
will have to be looking at everything I write and wonder if I will be
cut off for writing it. I don't know if your cutting him from the list
is because of what you stated or if it was because you did not wish to
deal with an arguement you had firmly planted in your mind and did not
wish to have shaken. I personally do not recall a passage in the Bible
which condemns slavery even though my own code of ethics precludes it.
Perhaps a deeper understanding of the moral code of 3,000 years ago and
its relationship to that of today would be useful. I don't know. But
apparently we aren't going to be discussing it here.

best wishes, Howard Davis

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 I will agree, that there is much 'blame' to go around during the recent
 'STUPID' bs flamings.  And I really don't want to be a recess monitor.

 Sometimes I figure, if ya dish it out better expect to deal with it. Mostly it
 is a bore.

 Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal
 distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical
 outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and interpretation"
 are futile and a waste of time. MHO

 And personally, somekind of hang-up, I guess, but I just don't 'cotton' to
 racism, bigotry and slavery, 'authorized' by the Bible, Chamber of Commerce or
 whatever.
 Excuse me.

 And besides what/whose sides?

 There is the cryptocracy. Their helpers and us, hoi polloi.


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Colliers - Some True History of these courageous investigators

1999-01-09 Thread Jim Condit Jr.


 -Caveat Lector-

Dear Gavin --

Sorry for the delay in answering, and thanks for your kind words. I believe
the Collier book is indispensible reading. The book, as you know, is a kind
of journey of the "Colliers as Investigative Detectives" -- it was their
story and the incredible type of experiences you have when you go all out to
take on the Ruling Elite on the local or national level.

The Colliers were the real "Geraldos" or the real "Jack Andersons" of our
age. The "Geraldos" and "Jack Andersons" are phonies who only go so far, and
it isn't very far -- so they can continue to have access to the evil Big TV
networks. I have no respect for the position that the Collier book is "not
credible" as has been stated by The New American (betraying their
predecessor, American Opinion, which carried the first national article ever
on Vote Fraud in the computer age, written by Susan L.M. Huck in 1977) or,
for instance, The Clinton Administration Scandals (CAS) list on the internet
moderated by Ray Heiser, which covers very effectively much of the minutia
of the Clinton Scandals, but doesn't seem to want to see the big picture.

One caution: the reader must use critical thinking when reading the Collier
material in one respect: The Colliers would present some of their educated
guesses as virtually certain. They have usually  been proven right over
time, but in some cases the jury is still out. Example: In the first or
second chapter of Votescam, they intimate that John Sununu was rewarded by
George Bush with the Chief of Staff position in the Bush White House because
Sununu was instrumental in fixing the computers in New Hampshire to give
Bush an upset victory there in 1988 against Bob Dole. They point out that
Sununu was an owner in some way or another of the computer company that
counted the votes in Manchester -- about 30% of the vote in New Hampshire
(the rest of the votes in NH are counted in the proper way, by citizens at
the precincts before the votes leave the precinct -- and NH is the only
place left where that happens at all). Now I am still open to the
possibility that Sununu was involved in such chicanery. Very strange things
happened against Pat Buchanan and for Bush in NH in 1992.

But it's not proven yet, and Sununu has never commented on it (probably
doesn't feel the need to do so) one way or the other. I personally think
that people like Sununu are not at a high enough level to be told about how
and when computer elections are fixed, which I believe is done by a "deep
cover" operation of CIA types who cooperate with the Big Media to make sure
that the Ruling Elite (centered around the FED in this country) remains in
power against any and all challengers. But's that just a guess, too.

So, with the caveat to be careful to scrutinize what the Colliers prove, or
what they testify to from first hand experience, vs. what they present as
educated guesses --- I highly recommend the book, and really feel it is
essential reading at this time in America.

I met them in 1985 when we invited them to Cincinnati to help investigate
the Board of Elections on election Night 1985 in Cincinnati, Ohio. This
story is told in Votescam: The Stealing of America in chapter 12 entitled
"Strange Bedfellows."

We had a court order allowing us to name experts to investiage "any and all"
aspects of the election process", and two of the experts we named were the
Colliers. This story is also told in a pamphlet I wrote called "The Greatest
Cover-up of All: Votefraud in America" -- the Colliers did a great job, as
proven by the fact that the Judge was called down to the Board of Elections
to modify his court order to forbid videotaping on election night!

There is a great exchange between Ken Collier and Judge Richard Niehaus,
caught on the audio portion of the film, in which the Judge is trying to
defend his decision to forbid videotaping. The Colliers had guts and they
risked arrest in the minutes that followed, at which time they did capture
on videotape women tweezing votes out of ballots with household tweezers.
The next morning we were on the Jan Mickelson Show on WCKY and the Board of
Elections would not put anyone on against us. I have this on audiotape also,
and we really should make these available for historical posterity.

I learned a lot from the Colliers, including the existence of the scoundrels
at Voter News Service who "conduct" all those bogus exit polls every
election day for all four (now five) of the Big TV networks. Chapter 15 and
16 in Votescam are absolute dynamite on exit polls and the Big TV network's
darling, Voter News Service. Thank God, the Colliers got their life
investigation down in writing.

Why did the Colliers call the chapter about themselves and ourselves
"Strange Bedfellows" ?? Well, the Colliers were sixty leftists who were
deeply involved in that whole movement. They were friends with Tom Hayden,
who later wouldn't help them at all. Hayden, another sell out. They arranged
the now

Re: [CTRL] Hawk

1999-01-09 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

You never show what you are replying to . Duh!!!

Agent Smiley wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Ditto, or, ruff-ruff.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] External Forces

1999-01-09 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks Harry. Hope your listening M.A.R.K (pseudonym) and anyone else who suffers from 
this bizarre scenario.

Harry Hendrickson wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Hello Richard,
  Suggest you purchase top of the line anti-virus program now before the
higher functions of your system come crashing down as well. I have a
moderately well designed system but I will be installing the best
anti-virus system I can afford. Too much at stake to lose my hard drive at
this juncture ! Ask some of the "computer kids" out here what they would
suggest. I may listen in myself. Good luckharry

--
 From: Source - Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] External Forces
 Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 9:27 AM

  -Caveat Lector-

 I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I have had MAJOR
technical errors when passing and recieving information, particularly
regarding Mind Control or Government conspiracies. I also accessed a CIA
affiliated site and was infected with a serious virus.

 Can anyone deny or confirm if this is intentional and how it happens

 MARK wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
 Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
 is working only sporadically.
 
 Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
 Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??
 
 MARK
 
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
and
 nazi's need not apply.
 
 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
 
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
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 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's

Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al

1999-01-09 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk really had what was coming to him. I also agree that William 'egged' him on but 
he does not deserve throwing off, he was simply defending his views.

RoadsEnd wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Howdy all,
I have just gone through a lengthy post from Hawk, using the bible to justify
slavery and comments about how it really wasn't that bad and if ya look at the
farm logs, some places only whipped their slaves "0.7 whippings per year".

Now I was raised in the south, Virginia and Tennessee, and realize that the
'official line and history' of the Civil War is no more accurate than todays
news. But I got no time for a bible thumping slavery apologist. He can start
his own list, about that crap(MHO),  it is an easy thing to do these days.  He
could even start a anti-CTRL, with some nazis, for all I care.

Hawk can recieve CTRL posts, he cannot post from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to CTRL
right now.  And with all the chatter I am really too busy for anymore 'noise'.

Please all, let us be civil and think a bit before ya post.

Om
K

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Subject:  [CTRL] Hawk et al
To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread William Hugh Tunstall


 -Caveat Lector-

What constitutes "baiting"?  While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals."  Plus, all of the vile
and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary.  In addition, I've
read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
Americans.  Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
general.  Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.

I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
possible.  Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
disagree with.  I don't think I've "baited" anyone.  If anything, I have
been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.

I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
disguise!!!  Ha ha...go figure!  Yes, there is a similarity between the
two of us...  And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with
everything he believes.  I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards
showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
respect for property...the same things he values

I'm not a white middle class American.  I didn't go to an elitist
school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
twelve...  I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
hungry...how many of you can say the same?  Have you ever worked at a
factory? washed dishes to eat?  worked in construction?
...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
strata.  We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
shovels.  I understand his sense of betrayal and rage.  He's my brother..
although I disagree with his views.

So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if 
one
 goes, they should all go.
 Jim norman

 William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
  I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
  All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
  this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
  spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
  I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
  in my opinion, that his posts..
 
  Best wishes,
  William
 
  On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
 
-Caveat Lector-
  
   I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of states
   leaving the Union...per se.
  
   In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
   and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.
  
   Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
   point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
   For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
   slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
   would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
   free your slaves.  However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
   owner ...and you were MY slave.  You might have a completely different
   perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.
  
   If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
   you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
   chattel.  Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
   wife.
   Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
   absolute lord and master over the Davis family.  Your wife, your children,
   your lives would be held in my tender hands.  Now, being a thinking and
   reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
   would object to this state of affairs.  In fact, it might not be a legal
   or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
   issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
   and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
   the Constitution to your untutored ears.and explain the finer points
   of the noble English Common Law tradition It would not surprise me
   that you might be unimpressed with the wisdom of my philsophy.  Perhaps,
   you might even be emotional about it.
  
   Regards,
   Wm
  
   On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:
  
 -Caveat Lector-
   
William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers

Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al

1999-01-09 Thread Ted Daniels


At 11:56 PM 1/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Howdy all,
I have just gone through a lengthy post from Hawk, using the bible to
justify
slavery and comments about how it really wasn't that bad and if ya
look at the
farm logs, some places only whipped their slaves 0.7 whippings
per year.

Next time you write to Hawk, ask him over to work at your place and be
paid 0.7 whippings per year just to see what he says.

--Ted Daniels

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Frank Rizzo: Name Ring A Bell?]

1999-01-09 Thread Ted Daniels


At 06:06 PM 1/6/99 -0500, you wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

 Rizzo approved the firebombing of the Philadelphia
tenement..

 Hmmm, I might be totally wrong, please correct me if so, but I'm
pretty sure
 William Goode (sp?) was the mayor of Philadelphia when the MOVE
bombing took
 place in May 1985. If I'm not mistaken, he beat law 'n'
order Frank Rizzo
in
 the mayoral election, which was a pretty big deal because Goode
was a black
 mayor who won by coalition-building, while Frank Rizzo... well,
he had his
 supporters, too. Rizzo had been mayor forever, but in 1985 Goode
had
recently
 won the mayor's office, one of the few black mayors in major
U.S. urban
areas
 at the time.

That's all correct. I watched the smoke from MOVE out my kitchen window
at the same time that TV was reporting the curious shyness of the PFD,
who'd been trying all morning to dislodge MOVE's rooftop bunker with
water cannons. When the State Police helicopter dropped its C4 charge on
MOVE's roof and the fire started, it suddenly became too
dangerous for the fire trucks to approach.

Naturally, no one (except the MOVE survivors) stood trial.

[CTRL] Tokers Jailed - Murderers Released

1999-01-09 Thread flw


 -Caveat Lector-


The Week Online with DRCNet, Issue #73 -- January 8, 1998

Murder Charges Against Four in Baltimore Dismissed for
Lack of Court Space

The backlog that exists in Baltimore's Circuit Courts, due
mainly to thousands of drug cases, resulted in the dismissal
of murder charges against four individuals this week (1/6)
who had waited more than 13 months for a trial.  Felony
trials are supposed to begin no later than six months
following arraignment, but the city has neither enough
judges, courtrooms, nor prosecutors nor public defenders to
handle the caseload.

Michael N. Gambrill, District Public Defender for Baltimore
told The Week Online that more than 80% of the cases in the
district court are drug cases.

"The police might arrest one junkie for passing a small
amount of something to another junkie.  Now, technically,
they're distributing, but the reality is that it's just
people who are addicted who are feeding their habits,"
Gambrill said.  But they're being brought into the system as
felonies, which is overloading the system."

The by-product, says Gambrill, is a lack of justice.  "It's
not uncommon for people to sit in jail for six to eight
months, and sometimes longer before trial.  These people
haven't been found guilty of anything.  They lose their
homes, they lose their jobs, they lose contact with their
families and loved ones based simply on the fact that they
have been charged.  That is not justice."

In the case of the dropped murder charges, the four
defendants had been waiting more than three years for a
trial.  In that case, the normal delays were compounded by
the difficulties of finding dates on which the four separate
defense attorneys (none of those defendants were represented
by the public defender), the prosecutor, the judge and a
courtroom were all available.



DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Snitch Alert

1999-01-09 Thread flw


 -Caveat Lector-

MEDIA ALERT:  PBS Frontline to air "Snitch"

On Tuesday, January 12 at 9pm (check local listings), PBS
will air "Snitch," a 90 minute feature exposing the use and
misuse of confidential informants by the U.S. government.

Frontline will examine how mandatory minimum sentencing
legislation turned the use of informants into the lynchpin
of prosecutorial strategy in the Drug War.  Producer Ofra
Bikel takes viewers inside the mind of the informant and
profiles some unsettling cases in which the most minor
offenders are serving harsh prison sentences on the word of
a snitch, while higher-ups, with information to trade, walk
free.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Pandering Pols Federalizing Frenzy

1999-01-09 Thread M.A. Johnson


 -Caveat Lector-

flw forwarded:
Rehnquist to Congress:  Stop Federalizing Crime

   On New Year's Eve day, Chief Justice of the United States
   Supreme Court William Rehnquist delivered his annual end-of-
   year report on the judiciary to Congress.  His message to
   legislators, spoken in blunt terms, was to stop making a
   federal case out of every crime that hits the headlines,
   overburdening the federal judiciary in the process.

MJ:
Listed in the Constitution as (federal) crimes ARE:

  Article I, Section 8, Clause 6:
 To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the
 Securities and current Coin of the United States;

  Article I, Section 8, Clause 10:

 To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed
 on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of
 Nations;

  Article I, Section 8, Clause 17:
 To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases
 whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten
 Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular
 States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become
 the Seat of the Government of the United States,
 and to exercise like Authority over all Places
 purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of
 the State in which the Same shall be, for the
 Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards,
 and other needful Buildings;--And


So unless it is in DC, on the high seas, between nations OR
counterfeiting ... it is plainly stated that ALL crime is
local.

Another exposure of the vast usurpation of powers not bestowed
upon the US Government.


Regard$,
--MJ

Congress cannot, under pretext of executing delegated power, pass
laws for the accomplishment of objects not entrusted to the Federal
Government. -- Linder v. US, 268 US 5, 17 (1925).

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men


 -Caveat Lector-

"Howard R. Davis III" wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Gerald Harp wrote:
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  In a message dated 1/5/99 6:05:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  writes:

  the nation  and the south and even the black population of the south would
 probably  have been better off if Lincoln had not forced the south through
 military means back into the union.

Constitutionally, they should of been allowed to secede, but I think what might
have happened here, is Lincoln may have thought it was a minor rebellion led by a
few.  Not until he got forces out, did he realize how dedicated each southron was
and is dedicated to the cause.

The North and the South had and still has a different culture, economic structure,
and I believe due to these reasons ...misunderstanding occurred.  It is interesting
to note, the people selling the slaves were black men themselves, and the one slave
owner who had the most slaves was a Haitian that lived in Louisiana.   One must
also remember there were white slaves.

But getting back to slavery issue, and beatings,...when you buy a mercedes...or
something expensive like that do you intentionally go out to harm it..crash it,
scratch it.  Heck, no you paid good money for it, and you will try to do your best
so nothing happens to it...well slaves were expensiveand expensive to
maintain(slavery would have faded out on its own)

It was the over-seers that were the culprits, people who learned how to abuse their
power.  But if the were caught...many times it was there behind.

Slavery as we see it, in the situation that we are in is evil, we were raised that
way, but let me throw out this one question on this, how can we today dare judge a
society of yesterday...without understanding the culture, and the mores of that
society.


 
 You don't seem to understand much about human nature.  Slavery was not just an
 economic issue. It was a way of life and cheap self esteem.

Many black folk were like family and treated as of such.


 It was the dark pleasure of  having absolute power over others.  Slavery had
 deeply corrupted the South.

Only 5% were slave owners, the war was over preservation of cultures on both sides.




  To think that the results of slavery were typically benign or even neutral is
 fantasy.

Huh ?

 It is also naive to think that the slave masters would ever have voluntarily
 given up their corrupt power.

Economics is what one looks at, it was becoming uneconomical to have slaves, and
was going out.  Those that owned the slaves would have made this transition from
slavery to freeman a lot more smoother, many slaves were thrown out in the streets,
did not have a place to go, the mighty liberals of their day did not have a
plan...the owners would have.


 Don't just focus  on  the shallow economics oriented histories, consider and read
 about  the social/psychological realities.

Bunk


 
  Jerry
 

 You have NO comprehension of what you are
 talking about when you start prattling about how "corrupted" the south
  so, why had Lee and others
 freed freed their slaves? Yes, there were economic reasons to believe slavery
 would end. But there were other forces that would have ended it as well.

Carlene M. Wojahn

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread Gerald Harp


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 12:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:


  Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal
  distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical
  outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and
interpretation"

  are futile and a waste of time. MHO


I agree with all that you state.  Hawk causes my hair to rise straight up, the
man is more than a little wrong headed.

However, variety in opinion is a good thing because it forces some of us to
clearly state why we are opposed to that which is anathema to us.  If you
don't push Hawk, he remains fairly courteous.  I wish to add my voice to
Tunstall and Shrum in suggesting that although Hawk's temporary (?) exile was
probably a good thing for him, it will be good for all of us if he is now let
back in.  CTRL is a marvelous forum, maintained at no small price by RoadsEnd.
One hears (ok, reads) things here that are essentially forbidden in the
mainstream media.  I understand that folks like the butterfly should be given
the boot because they are incoherent and obviously insane.  Hawk has his head
on backward but he will state chapter and verse for his opinions (thereby
revealing that civilization requires more than "just the facts, mam").  In his
own way he makes us think anew and thus adds to the CTRL goal of freeing
through the truth.

Jerry

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

 Geeshh you had me worried there, that you weren't who you are, and Hawk isn't who he 
is,
 and I was even beginning to wonder if I was who I am.I was beginning to sense a
 conspiracy of our identities being taken away...oh, well...I am glad you cleared 
that all
 up for me.

 -

 What constitutes "baiting"?  While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
 posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals."  Plus, all of the vile
 and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary.  In addition, I've
 read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
 Americans.  Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
 general.  Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.

 I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
 possible.  Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
 pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
 disagree with.  I don't think I've "baited" anyone.  If anything, I have
 been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
 snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.

 I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
 disguise!!!  Ha ha...go figure!  Yes, there is a similarity between the
 two of us...  And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with
 everything he believes.  I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
 who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards
 showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
 country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
 respect for property...the same things he values

 I'm not a white middle class American.  I didn't go to an elitist
 school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
 twelve...  I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
 hungry...how many of you can say the same?  Have you ever worked at a
 factory? washed dishes to eat?  worked in construction?
 ...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
 strata.  We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
 shovels.  I understand his sense of betrayal and rage.  He's my brother..
 although I disagree with his views.

 So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.

 On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if 
one
  goes, they should all go.
  Jim norman
 
  William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
 
-Caveat Lector-
  
   Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
   I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
   All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
   this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
   spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
   I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
   in my opinion, that his posts..
  
   Best wishes,
   William
  
   On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
  
 -Caveat Lector-
   
I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of states
leaving the Union...per se.
   
In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.
   
Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
free your slaves.  However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
owner ...and you were MY slave.  You might have a completely different
perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.
   
If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
chattel.  Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
wife.
Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
absolute lord and master over the Davis family.  Your wife, your children,
your lives would be held in my tender hands.  Now, being a thinking and
reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
would object to this state of affairs.  In fact, it might not be a legal
or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
the Constitution to your untutored ears.and explain the finer points
of the noble English Common

Re: [CTRL] Truth About Evil

1999-01-09 Thread PRUDYL


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 12:11:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:


 And this is a tremendously painful prospect, because it is a tremendously
 personal one. There were never many Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in America
 and very few political, cultural and intellectual figures of note among
 them. But such is not the case with communism 

Oh yes there were.  Many, many of our elite business community, including the
grandfather of the man who may run for president, George Bush Jr.  And there
were lots less well known folks as well.  Nazi sympathisers were fairly thick
on the ground (so to speak).  At least one radio personality of those old
days, a guy named Rudy who yodeled and whose number one fan was yours truly.
He suddenly was no longer on the radio, and it was years before a visiting Air
Force colonel with whom I was discussing espionage mentioned him.  It seems he
was sending coded messages (by yodeling) with information about the convoys
leaving the United States for England.   Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Coup de Satire, then Coup de Pat

1999-01-09 Thread PRUDYL


 -Caveat Lector-

Where in the world did the idea come from that the left had anything to do
with the downfall of Richard Nixon?  Bob Woodward was the point man in this
operation, and he is as conservative as they come, both in heritage and in
personal belief.  He was not a cub reporter.  He was an ex-Navy commander who
had been a briefing officer at the White House.  I don't know when he decided
to leave the White House and take a job with the Washington Post.  How did he
get the plum?  Your guess is as good as mine.  He was not a good writer, but
he did have the background of Yale where he was involved in journalism to some
extent.  He didn't make Skull  Bones, but he was Snake  Book or Book 
Snake, whatever.  After him we have Alexander Haig and a host of others who
could never be considered to be "left or liberal" however you want to slice
it.  It was the "right" that booted Nixon.  It was his own that decided he had
to go.  Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] OEN 1/8/98


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/
A HREF="http://www.aci.net/kalliste/"The Home Page of J. Orlin Grabbe/A
-
Impeached POTUS

Starr Pursues More Oval Office "Groping"

Julie Hiatt Steele indicted

THE independent counsel Kenneth Starr is reviving his pursuit of Bill
Clinton for allegedly fondling a 51-year-old socialite from a prominent
Virginia Democratic family when she visited him at the White House,
asking for help, in November 1993.
Kathleen Willey has told of how the President embraced her in the Oval
Office and lured her to his adjoining study to grope her breasts. She
said: "I just could not believe the recklessness of that act."

It emerged yesterday that Mr Starr is now building a solid case,
indicating that he thinks Mr Clinton perjured himself about Mrs Willey.
Republican prosecutors in the Senate impeachment trial said they now
wanted to call Mrs Willey as one of their witnesses to bolster their
case against the President.

Towards the end of Mr Clinton's four-hour evidence to a federal grand
jury on Aug 17, Mr Starr's deputy, Jackie Bennett, homed in on Mrs
Willey's claim. The President's tone changed abruptly. Instead of
carefully parsing his answers and looking shifty, as happened during the
Lewinsky cross-examination, he was almost defiant. Asked if he made
sexual advances towards Mrs Willey, he said: "That's false." Questioned
about specific acts alleged by the woman, he said: "I did not" and "No,
I didn't."

He then said: "Mr Bennett, I didn't do any of that, and the questions
you're asking, I think, betray the bias of this operation that has
bothered me for a long time. She was not telling the truth."

However, yesterday Mr Starr obtained grand jury indictments against a
former friend of Mrs Willey, Julie Hiatt Steele, 52, charging her with
lying to the jury in the Lewinsky investigation, and obstructing
justice.

Mrs Steele is being drawn into the affair because a television producer,
Bill Poveromo, has insisted that she told him "the President had groped"
Mrs Willey, and that she knew about it "right after it happened". She
also supported Mrs Willey's account in what she said was an
"off-the-record" interview in 1997 with a Newsweek reporter. However,
she later retracted the statement.

The indictment alleged that the retraction was a lie, which Mrs Steele
provided under oath last February in a deposition in the Paula Jones
sexual harassment lawsuit against the President. The charges are a
severe blow to the White House, which fears that Mr Starr might be
putting pressure on Mrs Steele to become a witness against the
President.

Aides have tried desperately to paint Mrs Willey as too unstable to be
believed. They were helped by the crime novelist Patricia Cornwell, who
lives near her in Richmond, Virginia. Apparently enraged that the author
had defected from the Democratic Party to the Republicans, taking with
her a $10,000 campaign contribution, Mrs Willey visited her home,
leaving a pile of books and a vicious letter on the doorstep.

If Mrs Willey becomes a Senate witness, she might be even more riveting
than Miss Lewinsky. She claims that the President "put my hand on his
genitals". He was "aroused" and grabbed her breasts, she alleges. As she
drew away "I recall him saying he had wanted to do that for a long
time".

Senate prosecutors are interested in her evidence to a Washington grand
jury in which, according to Newsweek, she told of a two-day visit to the
estate of Nathan Landow, a wealthy Democratic ally of the President. She
said he repeatedly pressed her about her version of the encounter,
telling her: "Don't say anything."

Of Mrs Willey, the President has said that she came to him because she
was upset about domestic problems. He said that he was simply comforting
her, he said: "I embraced her. I put my arms around her. There was
nothing sexual about it."

Mrs Willey, whose lawyer husband Edward shot himself on the day of the
encounter because of financial problems, said that all she had wanted
was to change her job as a White House volunteer to a paid member of the
staff. Her marriage was in ruins and she was facing a desperate
financial situation.

The London Telegraph, Jan. 8, 1999


The Politics of Lying

French See Danger in Too Much Truth

"Lying gets a good press"

PARIS - ''Truths!'' Charles de Gaulle is supposed to have shouted. ''Did
you think I could have created a (Free French) government against the
English and the Americans with truths? You make History with ambition,
not with truths.''
The quote is from a new book by Thierry Pfister, a French editor, who
uses it to illustrate his thesis that for the French mind, lying in
politics is the norm, and that anyone trying to attach a standard of
truthfulness to a politician's behavior is naive and worthy of contempt.
The general, he suggests, said as much.

This is part of Mr. Pfister's explanation of why he believes the French,
and particularly France's elites, do not understand how

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

what is this..I don't understand this list, first message I opened, one was
accusing one to be another.,,now you are saying it happens all of the time.  Is
this what this list is about, if so I might as well leave.
I want to learn about things not argue if he is really he..if she is he ..if me is
me...or whatever. I hope this list is more than that.

Carlene

"L. Shipton" wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 We have had this before.  Multiple personal conversations (expessally from
 the same person, on the same thread) without documentation, citations, or
 URL's!  My answer.  Substance--Not soapboxing!

 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Laura
 aka The Pied Piper
 PS I hope this is clear enough for you to understand, this time.

 -Original Message-
 From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 8:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

  -Caveat Lector-
 
 What constitutes "baiting"?  While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
 posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals."  Plus, all of the vile
 and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary.  In addition, I've
 read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
 Americans.  Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
 general.  Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.
 
 I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
 possible.  Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
 pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
 disagree with.  I don't think I've "baited" anyone.  If anything, I have
 been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
 snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.
 
 I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
 disguise!!!  Ha ha...go figure!  Yes, there is a similarity between the
 two of us...  And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with
 everything he believes.  I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
 who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards
 showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
 country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
 respect for property...the same things he values
 
 I'm not a white middle class American.  I didn't go to an elitist
 school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was
 twelve...  I know what it's like to live on the streets and be
 hungry...how many of you can say the same?  Have you ever worked at a
 factory? washed dishes to eat?  worked in construction?
 ...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low
 strata.  We are the people who follow behind your parade with the
 shovels.  I understand his sense of betrayal and rage.  He's my brother..
 although I disagree with his views.
 
 So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button.
 
 On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote:
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  May I second the motion.  In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both
 sides and if one
  goes, they should all go.
  Jim norman
 
  William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
 
-Caveat Lector-
  
   Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
   I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
   All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
   this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
   spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that
 offensive.
   I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more
 offensive,
   in my opinion, that his posts..
  
   Best wishes,
   William
  
   On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
  
 -Caveat Lector-
   
I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of
 states
leaving the Union...per se.
   
In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were
 confused
and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no
 compromise.
   
Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon
 your
point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular
 discussion.
For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who
 owned
slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and
 you
would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to

[CTRL] End of oil economy

1999-01-09 Thread nurev


 -Caveat Lector-

The Death of the Oil Economy
  by Ted Trainer

From Earth Island Journal, Spring 1997

Australia - A new report on world oil resources, World Oil Supply 1930-2050 (Campbell
and Laherre, Petroconsultants Pty. Ltd., 1995), concludes that the planet's oil 
supplies
will be exhausted much sooner than previously thought.

The report, written for oil industry insiders and priced at $32,000 per copy, concludes
that world oil production and supply probably will peak as soon as the year 2000 and 
will
decline to half the peak level by 2025. Large and permanent increases in oil prices are
predicted after the year 2000.

Industry experts assumed in the past that oil resources would last 50 years, based on
calculations that simply divided estimated reserves by the present annual use. But this
method of prediction failed to account for an increase in Third World oil use.

If everyone on Earth were to consume petroleum at the per capita rate of industrialized
countries, it would require a fivefold increase in current oil production to meet the
demand. If, by 2060, the world's population reaches the expected 11 billion mark and 
all
were to consume as much energy as the average Australian does now, annual
worldwide oil production would need to be increased about 30 times.

It seems that the oil companies and oil exporting countries have been fibbing. It is 
in their
interest to state that remaining resources are in good shape, because their business
agreements limit them to pumping and selling a proportion of their remaining resources.
In fact, the rate of oil discovery is falling sharply. The world consumes 23 billion 
barrels a
year, but the oil industry finds only 7 billion barrels a year.

Economists argue that scarcity will result in price increases, making it more 
profitable to
access poorer deposits. That seems plausible only if one thinks only about dollar 
costs.
The fact is, as an oil field ages, increasing amounts of energy must be exerted to pump
the oil out. The cost of this energy must be subtracted from the total value of the 
energy in
the oil retrieved. According to a 1992 study, these two curves actually will intersect
around the year 2005. Beyond that point, the energy required to find and extract a 
barrel
of oil will exceed the energy contained in the barrel.

There is reason to believe that the oil industry is well aware of oil field depletion. 
No new
supertankers have been built for 20 years, while interest in squeezing oil from shale
deposits seems to be growing.

What, then, is the solution to our acute energy problem? There isn't one.

Natural gas resources are about as limited as petroleum and gas use recently has been
growing at a rate of 9 percent per year.

Relying on nuclear energy to provide 11 billion people with First World living 
standards
would require a system of 250,000 giant breeder reactors using around 1 million tons of
plutonium.

The tremendous amount of energy necessary to build fusion reactors (if they ever could
work on a commercial scale) would guarantee a far worse greenhouse problem than
what we face already. Even then, fusion power could supply perhaps only 2030 years of
energy for an affluent 11 billion people.

There is no question that we should convert to renewable energy sources as quickly as
possible, but even "clean" energy is not capable of bringing the Western world's
energy-intense way of life to all people.

Beyond 2005, the energy required to find and extract a barrel of oil will exceed the
energy contained in the barrel.

There is not enough plant matter to fuel the world's transport fleet. To supply 11 
billion
people with the number of cars used by people in rich countries would demand 10 times
as much fuel as used today. Because the wind does not blow all the time, wind-energy
never will be able to contribute more than 5-30 percent of the world's present 
electricity
demand.

And a popular proposal to meet Northern Europe's winter energy demands by utilizing
solar collectors in the Sahara desert fails to acknowledge that about 95 percent of the
collected energy would be lost in transmission and conversion.

A person living in a First World city requires the equivalent of about 4.5 hectares 
(11.1
acres) of productive land for food, water, housing and goods (as well as carbon sinks 
to
soak up the carbon dioxide produced by their energy use). Applying this "ecological
footprint" standard to Australia shows that Sydney needs an area of productive land 35
times as big as the city to sustain itself. For 11 billion people to live like people 
in
Sydney, we'd need about 50 billion hectares (124 billion acres) of productive
landaround six times all the productive land on the planet.

By the year 2060, if the world maintained a mere 3 percent annual economic growth rate
and all the world's people were to benefit equally, world economic output would have to
increase to 80 times its current rate.

These

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

Howdy all,


The utility of CTRL as an informational exchange network starts to diminsh as
the volume gets larger. Much of the volume is being created by discussions of
asides and other trivial matters.  Political and relgious 'stances'
discussions are subjects based upon 'personal' 'beliefs' and continual
battlement on these subjects deter our study of 'social history and the forces
behind the scenes.

Yes, there is much to be learn from the discussions, in both understanding
others and ourselves, but IMHO, get it the way of 'reading the river' 
looking at the news and what-not, to see where the hoi polloi is being
directed. Much of our newsmedia is directed at 'prodding' the paradigm into
the cryptocracy's direction. In other words, some of the news and ' public
actions' are for the purpose of validating/massaging the cryptocracy's future
plans.

Now, I been a-thinkin', Lord have mercy, I can create a list that will recieve
all posts from CTRL and will be open for more discussion and chat.

What say yea?


I will put Hawke back on 'post'.

Please, let us all think before we post.

As to the question of whether slavery is a sin or not. If you have to ask the
question . . .

The understanding of 'moral codes' of 3,000 years ago is not the purpose of
this list.

The cryptocracy doesn't give a damn. Your beliefs are used against you. Stand
upon a rock not on the sand. Understand the son of man, not enslavement to
'words'.

MHO

We shall see. . .

Om
K

I got a life . . .

In a message dated 1/9/99 1:30:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You own the list. You can do what ever you want with it. However,
your banning Hawk from the list without even a warning or and ending to
that particular th I will be
cut off for writing it. I don't know if your cutting him from the list
is because of what you stated or if it was because you did not wish to
deal with an arguement you had firmly planted in your mind and did not
wish to have shaken. I personally do not recall a passage in the Bible
which condemns slavery even though my own code of ethics precludes it.
Perhaps a deeper understanding of the moral code of 3,000 years ago and
its relationship to that of today would be useful. I don't know. But
apparently we aren't going to be discussing it here.

best wishes, Howard Davis

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 I will agree, that there is much 'blame' to go around during the recent
 'STUPID' bs flamings.  And I really don't want to be a recess monitor.

 Sometimes I figure, if ya dish it out better expect to deal with it. Mostly
it
 is a bore.

 Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal
 distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical
 outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and
interpretation"
 are futile and a waste of time. MHO

 And personally, somekind of hang-up, I guess, but I just don't 'cotton' to
 racism, bigotry and slavery, 'authorized' by the Bible, Chamber of Commerce
or
 whatever.
 Excuse me.

 And besides what/whose sides?

 There is the cryptocracy. Their helpers and us, hoi polloi.

-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-09 Thread William Hugh Tunstall


 -Caveat Lector-

Carlene,
Welcome to the list!  This is the second time I've subscribed...and you
will be exposed to every kind of conceivable opinion here. So, don't
leave.  But at times, the exchanges become particularly nasty.

Just before you posted, one of the list contributors suggested that I
(William) might be, in reality, another contributor who goes by the net
monicker of Hawk.  I assured her that I am not.  [William checking himself
carefully...no black wings in evidence]

This kind of lunacy does occasionally take place here.  People are free to
sound off about any topic they so desire... And I think it is a good
thing.  But at times a lynch mob mentality prevailsand some of us want
to control the direction/topics/kind of verbal exchanges that take place.

I tend to approach the list from the standpoint that one can actually
LEARN from people whom one disagrees with.  Debate...even if at times it
sinks to the level of acrimony is a good thing in a free society...because
we are exposed to new ideas...new information...new
perspectives on old topics

Our list has a number of exceptionally well-informed individuals coming
from a variety of different backgrounds who make invaluable contributions
to the list serve.  Then, there are others who approach the list from a
combative perspective They believe that they are the sole possessors
and purveyors of "the truth"and it is their mission in life to
enlighten the rest of us who have strayed into darkness.  But even they
make a contribution of sorts.

Ordinarily, I don't tend to lock horns with the individuals on the
list...but I get tired of their bullying supercilious attitude and feel
that I have a duty to give some kind of response.  (But if I were to
respond to every post...I would never get away from this computer screen.)

Best wishes and welcome to the list
William




On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Carlene M. Wojahn wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 what is this..I don't understand this list, first message I opened, one was
 accusing one to be another.,,now you are saying it happens all of the time.  Is
 this what this list is about, if so I might as well leave.
 I want to learn about things not argue if he is really he..if she is he ..if me is
 me...or whatever. I hope this list is more than that.

 Carlene

 "L. Shipton" wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  We have had this before.  Multiple personal conversations (expessally from
  the same person, on the same thread) without documentation, citations, or
  URL's!  My answer.  Substance--Not soapboxing!
 
  CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
  propagandic
  screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
  and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
  outright
  frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
  spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
  gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
  readers;
  be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
  nazi's need not apply.
 
  Laura
  aka The Pied Piper
  PS I hope this is clear enough for you to understand, this time.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 8:08 AM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison
 
   -Caveat Lector-
  
  What constitutes "baiting"?  While I've subscribed to the list, I've read
  posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals."  Plus, all of the vile
  and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary.  In addition, I've
  read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native
  Americans.  Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in
  general.  Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery.
  
  I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as
  possible.  Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has
  pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I
  disagree with.  I don't think I've "baited" anyone.  If anything, I have
  been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with
  snide remarks and ad hominem attacks.
  
  I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in
  disguise!!!  Ha ha...go figure!  Yes, there is a similarity between the
  two of us...  And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with
  everything he believes.  I've spent my entire life surrounded by people
  who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards
  showing him that liberals and people of color also love their
  country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity,
  respect for property...the same things he values
  
  I'm not a white middle class American.  I didn't go to an elitist
  school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: CC: Canadian hemp farmers on trial in Nicaragua!


Jolly Roger wrote:

One problem confuses the issue for all involved.  For the position of
local
manager, the investors chose to hire an historic figure, Oscar Danilo
Blandon (sp?).  Blandon is a central character in the C.I.A. drug running
scandal that was so well exposed by Gary Webb in the San Jose Mercury News
and in his recent book Dark Alliance.  Blandon was one of the founders of
the Contra party and remains well connected with the power structure in
Nicaragua. But to finance the contra armies in the Reagan 1980's, Bland
imported tons of cocaine into America.  He served almost two years in a
federal prison.  Blandon holds an MBA, is bilingual and became quite
excited by the potential of what hemp can do for his country.  He proved a
natural choice for project manager.   But the tide turned. 




So what's really going on here?  Who are these Canadian investors?  Could
they possibly be those same investors who owned George Bush's corporations
when he went into business?  Is hemp in competition with the oil industry?

Linda

More info:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/nws7.htm


Hemp opponents maintain the crop is a loser both economically and
politically. White House drug czar Barry McCaffrey says that the push to
grow hemp is "a subterfuge" for efforts to legalize marijuana and that hemp
is unlikely to be a profitable crop anyway.

"Legalizing hemp sends the wrong message about marijuana," says David Des
Roches, an aide to McCaffrey who specializes in hemp. "These poor farmers
are being conned by the marijuana legalization groups. If hemp were a viable
crop, we'd have a harder time putting forward our agenda. Thankfully, it's
not."

The critics note that world hemp production has fallen from 1 million acres
in 1960 to 250,000 acres today. The traditional big growers - China,
Romania, Hungary - have always relied on cheap labor for a profitable crop
while the new Western European farmers depend on government subsidies worth
$222 an acre in 1998.

+++
from:
http://www.parascope.com/mx/hemp01.htm

Hemp-based newsprint could be produced at half the cost of inferior
wood-based newsprint. Superior hemp fabric could easily compete with cotton.
And scientists had just begun to explore the medical uses of marijuana. In
1937, hemp was a rapidly growing industry with virtually unlimited
potential, which, according to conservative estimates, would currently
generate $500 billion per year -- if it had not been criminalized by a group
of elite industrialists with very different plans for industry in the 20th
century.

http://www.parascope.com/mx/hemp03.htm
The criminalization of marijuana in 1937 presented some difficulties in
World War II, when the Japanese seized the Philippines, the source of
America's cordage at the time. (The Philippines were seized forty years
earlier by the United States during the Spanish-American War, a war which
Hearst worked very hard to help initiate -- but that's another story.) Hemp
was temporarily re-introduced in 1942 to fill the hemp gap, and films such
as the USDA's Hemp for Victory encouraged patriotic American farmers to make
good use of cannabis. George Bush, whose War on Drugs would send untold
American citizens to prison, was actually saved by hemp during World War II:
the webbing of the parachute he used after bailing out of his burning
airplane over the Pacific was made from -- that's right -- hemp.


http://www.parascope.com/mx/hemp04.htm
The global elite use numerous tactics in their struggle for one-world
economic hegemony, and one of the main pressure points is the oil industry.
If you can control a nation's fuel supply, you can exert tremendous
influence over that nation's affairs. You can make it do your bidding.

The fossil fuel leg of the globalist pyramid would be yanked out by
widespread use of biomass fuel, of which hemp is probably the best source.
Hemp would also dislodge certain pharmaceutical monopolies, who charge
exorbitant prices for drugs which cost pennies to produce and whose effects
can be readily replicated by cannabis-derived drugs.

Ah, but what about the timeless argument that "You people are just using all
that as an excuse to smoke pot"? No doubt, the prime motivator for some
marijuana decriminalization activists is that they simply enjoy smoking it.
Evidence in this article provides plenty of other compelling reasons to
support legalization, but the argument can still be made. Well, what of it?

According to the federal Bureau of Mortality Statistics and the National
Institute of Drug Abuse, tobacco kills 340,000 to 425,000 per year.
Alcohol -- NOT including 50 percent of all highway deaths and 65 percent of
all murders -- kills more than 150,000 Americans per year. Even aspirin
takes out between 180 and 1,000 people per year.

According to these same figures, marijuana kills not one person per year.
Zero. Zilch. Nada. So pick your poison!

In light of the vast economic potential of hemp, does it really matter that
some

Re: [CTRL] Tunnels - GREAT URL


 -Caveat Lector-

Robert wrote:

  As I recall from running the numbers the Chama NM/CO tunnel is 12.6 miles
long
and 10.92 feet in diameter.  Where it is listed as a BuRec project, I would
imagine
it has something to do with water...although you never know.

It's listed as being near the San Juan river so it could have been used, or
is still being used, to divert water.  This is cattle country.  I'm sure
many (if not all) of these tunnels are for utility purposes.  Though I do
question A LOT, I don't see a conspiracy with each and every event.

  If you happen to be in the area sometime, I would be curious as to
what the locals say.

Chama is only about 30 minutes from here so, the locals here should know.
I'll ask around.

  Up in Idaho in a little town on I-15 between Idaho Falls and the Montana
border is a  town called Dubois.  Just north of Dubois is a large Dept of
Agriculture "sheep station."
To set the flavor of this  picture the Dept  of Agriculture station which
was
used as a cover for a circular underground lab which worked on viruses
and such in the movie Andromeda Strain.

Yikes!!!  That's nice to have in one's backyard.  I used to live near
Washington, D.C. and was in the area when there was "that minor incident"
with the ebola virus.


 When you talk to the folks in Dubois (of which the small community
supposedly depends on sheep station money for its small economy) nobody
and I mean absolutely NOBODY has any clue what is done, other then to say
something  about "sheep research."When you ask some locals the question
"do you have family that works there?"  The answer seems to be "yes, but
they
don't
talk about it"
Usually is one newspaper article  a year about some sheep this or that and
that is the size of it.
  Then you have the LA County Dept of Corrections (Yup you read it right,
Los Angles Calif) BUS that appears in Dubois during the night about twice
a year or so.  Apparently the bus stays for "a couple of weeks" then it
drives
off again in the middle of the night.  Supposedly nobody knows who the
driver
is, why the bus is their, or 'who' comes in the bus but they are so used to
its
appearance that it isn't given a 2nd thought.

Prisoners have been used as test subjects before.  H...that is
interesting.


   Probably just as strange as a 12.6 mile tunnel out in the middle of no
where. :)

Yeah, it's a little weird and may have a completely reasonable explanation
for being there.  Things do happen in these small southwest towns.  12 of
the 80 some members of the Colorado cult (now dispersed all over the world)
came from here.  The employer of one of the young women had very nice things
to say about her but, that she had seen some changes taking place a year or
so before she joined the cult.  For reasons of confidentially, I won't go
into details.  It's typical cult stuff - no big secrets.

Hilary

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] The Truth About Remote Viewing and Much More


 -Caveat Lector-

Robert wrote:

  Whenever I hear about remote viewing, my mind immediatly reverts to
Courtney
Brown,
and Ed Dames.

That's because they have the biggest mouths and the greatest need for the
spotlight.  Unfortunately, their information is bad.  I have an interview
that I did with Lyn Buchanan that I will post later.  Lyn's one of the good
ones!!!

Over the year we heard such pronouncements  (this is a very
short list of a long list of tales and remote viewing) from the supposed RV
community of:
  1) There is a martian hive colony living underground in New Mexico and in
1996 the martians were going to come out and invade earth.  Didn't happen.
  2) After amateur astronomer Chuck Sharmak unloaded his pictures of the
supposed companion object allegedly following Hale Bopp, within 3 days of
the
announcement the remote viewers confirmed the claim.  No Companion object
and
Sharmak apologized for
his mistake.
  3) The remote viewers told us that they had RV'ed how the earth, when it
transversed through the path of Hale Bopp was going to get some type of
pathagon which would destory all grass and other green plant life.  Never
Happened.
   4) We had remote viewers all extolling why the other remote viewers were
full of crap, but they weren't.  Partially true.  Both were full of crap.


This sounds like a bunch of Dames' nonsense.

Hilary

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Fwd: SOLDIERS ATTACK NIGERIAN COMMUNITIES



  ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS ACTION (ERA)

 ERA ALERT
  SOLDIERS ATTACK OIL COMMUNITIES
  ? TRADITIONAL RULER, OTHERS FEARED KILLED
  [By Olu Owolabi, Reporting from WARRI. Punch, Lagos, January 7, 1999,
  Back page]

  Armed men attacked on Monday, two villages in Warri North Local
  Government in Delta State: Opia and Ikiyan, during which some of the
  villagers, including a traditional ruler, were killed.

  Narrating their experiences in Warri on Wednesday, some of the survivors
  of the attacks, told newsmen that attack was in two batches, one by an
  unspecified number of men who raided the villages in an aircraft.

  Shortly after the departure of the aircraft, another group of armed men
  came in four speedboats to launch their attack.

  They said the aircraft, owned by an oil company, was occupied by people
  in Army uniform, who stormed the villages around 2.00 p.m. on Monday, to
  unleash the attack.

  They said that just a few minutes after the aircraft took off, four
  speedboats with fully armed soldiers arrived the shore and fired
  sporadically at the villagers. They also razed down the villages.

  According to them, after the burning down of Opia village, the invaders
  moved to Ikiyan, about four kilometers to Opia, where a woman, who was
  fishing, was attacked and her whereabouts still unknown.

  Spokesmen for the communities: Messrs Tony Lawurn, Andrew Lelekumo,
  Solomon Sode and Sule Akpasubowei, stated that during the shootings, one
  of the villagers, Mr. Bright Pablobuagha, waived his hands to indicate
  that the communities are at peace, but the armed soldiers continued
  their indiscriminate shooting.

  Sode, who looked disturbed, said that just as Mr. Pablobuagha waived,
  the aircraft slowed down and the armed soldiers started to shoot
  indiscriminately, leading to the death of Chief Agbagbadi of Ikiyan
  village.

  For more information contact:
  ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS ACTION/ FRIENDS OF THE EARTH (FoE, Nigeria) +
  OILWATCH
  AFRICA
  #214, Uselu-Lagos Road, P. O. Box 10577, Benin City, Nigeria
  Tel/Fax: + 234 52 600165 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Port Harcourt:
  # 13 Agudama Street, D-Line, Port Harcourt
  Tel: + 234 84 236365 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Lagos:
  # 1 Balogun Street, Ikeja Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Owerri:
  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London:
  Tel/Fax: + 44 181 7800574Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]







ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS ACTION (ERA)

   ERA ALERT
SOLDIERS ATTACK OIL COMMUNITIES
? TRADITIONAL RULER, OTHERS FEARED KILLED
[By Olu Owolabi, Reporting from WARRI. Punch, Lagos, January 7, 1999,
Back page]

Armed men attacked on Monday, two villages in Warri North Local
Government in Delta State: Opia and Ikiyan, during which some of the
villagers, including a traditional ruler, were killed.

Narrating their experiences in Warri on Wednesday, some of the survivors
of the attacks, told newsmen that attack was in two batches, one by an
unspecified number of men who raided the villages in an aircraft.

Shortly after the departure of the aircraft, another group of armed men
came in four speedboats to launch their attack.

They said the aircraft, owned by an oil company, was occupied by people
in Army uniform, who stormed the villages around 2.00 p.m. on Monday, to
unleash the attack.

They said that just a few minutes after the aircraft took off, four
speedboats with fully armed soldiers arrived the shore and fired
sporadically at the villagers. They also razed down the villages.

According to them, after the burning down of Opia village, the invaders
moved to Ikiyan, about four kilometers to Opia, where a woman, who was
fishing, was attacked and her whereabouts still unknown.

Spokesmen for the communities: Messrs Tony Lawurn, Andrew Lelekumo,
Solomon Sode and Sule Akpasubowei, stated that during the shootings, one
of the villagers, Mr. Bright Pablobuagha, waived his hands to indicate
that the communities are at peace, but the armed soldiers continued
their indiscriminate shooting.

Sode, who looked disturbed, said that just as Mr. Pablobuagha waived,
the aircraft slowed down and the armed soldiers started to shoot
indiscriminately, leading to the death of Chief Agbagbadi of Ikiyan
village.

For more information contact:
ENVIRONMENTAL RIGHTS ACTION/ FRIENDS OF THE EARTH (FoE, Nigeria) +
OILWATCH
AFRICA
#214, Uselu-Lagos Road, P. O. Box 10577, Benin City, Nigeria
Tel/Fax: + 234 52 600165 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Port Harcourt:
# 13 Agudama Street, D-Line, Port Harcourt
Tel: + 234 84 236365 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lagos:
# 1 Balogun Street, Ikeja Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Owerri:
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
London:
Tel/Fax: + 44 181 7800574Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


__
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[CTRL] Great Heroin Coup


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.pir.org/cgi-bin/nbonlin1.cgi/GA

Kruger, Henrik. The Great Heroin Coup: Drugs, Intelligence, and
International Fascism. Boston: South End Press, 1980. 240 pages. (Originally
published in Denmark as "Smukke Serge og Heroinen" in 1976.)
Henrik Kruger spent five years as a correspondent in Bangkok, Santiago, and
Washington for the Copenhagen daily "Politiken," and has written or
co-authored eight books. His work on what is today called "narcoterrorism"
began more than ten years before the term was used in the U.S., and without
the anti-Soviet baggage that became obligatory under the sponsorship of
Reagan-era think tanks. Unfortunately this book is one of a kind and is
invariably ignored by today's mainstream writers.
The Great Heroin Coup raises awkward questions. The first half of the book
concerns French intelligence, the OAS, the Corsican Mafia and the CIA, the
Ben Barka affair, and the story of Christian David; the second half examines
the CIA and Mafia in the Golden Triangle, Cuban exiles in Florida, the
Nixon-Vesco connection, and the CIA's infiltration of the DEA in Latin
America. The conclusion is not essential to the rich detail and dense
footnoting throughout the book, but here it is: Nixon's war against the
Turkey-Marseilles heroin allowed Trafficante's marketing "coup" using heroin
from Southeast Asia, and for Kruger it appears that there may have been
passive collusion in high places.
ISBN 0-89608-031-5


http://www.pir.org/cgi-bin/nbonlin1.cgi/WD
Messick, Hank. Of Grass and Snow: The Secret Criminal Elite. Englewood
Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1979. 190 pages.
This book is Messick's attempt to expose the new elements behind the drug
trade: blacks and Cubans, South Americans, and the counterculture. He
describes the trade in marijuana, cocaine, and heroin, and the efforts of
U.S. federal and local authorities to curb the supply. Richard Nixon's war
on drugs -- which involved Lucien Conein and 14 ex-CIA agents assigned to
him, all operating through the DEA -- is discussed in one chapter. Rumors
that this was some sort of assassination squad are still circulating today.
Hank Messick's many books on organized crime are widely respected. In 1965
he was hired by the Miami Herald for a series on Meyer Lansky, and his first
book, The Silent Syndicate (1967), reported on crime and gambling in
Kentucky and Ohio. Messick makes a distinction between the syndicate and the
Mafia. The former is international and multicultural, and often includes the
latter as a subset. But beginning with the Joseph Valachi hearings in 1963
and J. Edgar Hoover's "La Cosa Nostra" hype, the Mafia got all the attention
while Lansky was left alone. Messick was the first to hint at the reason for
this: Hoover had been compromised by Lansky, as Anthony Summers recently
confirmed in "Official and Confidential" (1993). This debate is significant
today for assassination theorists, because most "Mafia did it" authors still
give Lansky a mere footnote or two at best.
ISBN 0-13-630558-X


http://www.pir.org/cgi-bin/nbonlin1.cgi/HB

Anderson, Scott and Anderson, John Lee. Inside the League. New York: Dodd,
Mead  Co., 1986. 322 pages.
The World Anti-Communist League (WACL) was founded in 1966 as a public
relations arm for Taiwan and South Korea. WACL didn't attract much notice in
the U.S. until John Singlaub's United States Council for World Freedom, the
American branch of WACL, was launched in 1981 with a loan from Taiwan and
soon began raising money for the contras.
Singlaub and his supporters also operated through a network of similar
groups: Western Goals, Council for the Defense of Freedom, American Security
Council, Council for Inter-American Security, and the Conservative Caucus.
But WACL is particularly known for its international conferences that
attract "American congressmen and senators, archbishops, members of
Parliament, bank presidents, and scientists. There, they have been in the
company of Nazi collaborators, Japanese war criminals, Latin death squad
leaders, disciples of Moon's Unification Church, and fugitive Italian
terrorists."

There's even a CIA connection. Ray Cline, station chief in Taiwan from
1958-1962 and later deputy director for intelligence, attended conferences
in 1980, 1983, and 1984. The authors believe that covert U.S. funding played
a role in the establishment of WACL, and note that Cline was in a position
to be helpful when preparatory meetings were held in 1958.
ISBN 0-396-08517-2

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always

[CTRL] Interview with Lyn Buchanan - Remote Viewing

1999-01-09 Thread Anonymous

Remote ViewingAn Interview withLyn BuchananRemote Viewing is a fascinating subject of human potential
which has captivated the attention of Lyn Buchanan for many years. Mr. Buchanan
is considered a leading expert on the topic and for years has used his skills to
assist the military, US government and various police departments on numerous
projects. Since his retirement from the military he has devoted much of his time
in using his talents in finding missing children. This article is a combination
of an interview and some responses to questions that had been prepared prior to
our time together. I am grateful to Mr. Buchanan for his generous efforts in
making this article possible. Hilary Thomas HT: What is Remote
Viewing? LB: First of all, I would make a strong distinction between
Remote Viewing (RV) and Controlled Remote Viewing (CRV).
Controlled Remote Viewing (CRV) stands for a single, very scientific
method for training non-psychic people to do the same work as a natural, gifted
psychic. It was researched, developed and used by the US government from the
late 1970s through the early 1990s to gain military and political intelligence
against foreign targets. Remote Viewing, on the other hand,
is nothing more than the New Age term for psychic. It has so many
definitions that it has come to have no definite meaning. It can stand for
hundreds of different methods and practices, all of which fall under the more
familiar term, psychic. The CRV name is the proprietary property of Mr.
Ingo Swann, and may only be used with his permission. Recently, though, many
people have begun using remote viewing with some other first word in
front of it. So, instead of Controlled Remote Viewing, you get
Scientific Remote Viewing or Technical Remote Viewing or
some other type of remote viewing. It only means that the person is
teaching/doing psychic work according to a set of rules he made up. Some even
say that their set of rules are derivatives or improvements upon the
Ingo Swann method. This gives them the opportunity to use Mr. Swann's name and
thereby subliminally tie themselves to him in the reader's mind. The fact still
stands that they are being less than honest and what they are training is not
Controlled Remote Viewing. The public must be careful about this point.
A plain vanilla remote viewer, then, is pretty well the
equivalent of a psychic of one form or another. Now, that is not to
say that there aren't some very good and talented people who are using the term.
It does say something about them, though. It says that they do not understand
the basic terms for what they are doing for a living. There is a simple test for
a person who calls him/herself a remote viewer: remember that when a person says
he is a remote viewer, it means by definition that he is not a natural psychic,
but had to be trained. If he tells you that he is a natural remote
viewer or that he has been remote viewing since he was a child, or that he
has been remote viewing for 20-30-40 years. You can be sure that, at
best, he doesn't know his subject well enough to know the proper words to use.
At worst, he is out to get your money. There is a lot of misinformation
and outright disinformation flying around. It has been really confusing for new
people to find reliable information simply because there is so much bad
information. Therefore, throughout this interview, I would like to talk about
Controlled Remote Viewing, since that is what I have learned, what I do, and
what I teach others to do. The things I say will not necessarily apply to
remote viewing in its meaning of psychic. So,
back to your original question: What is Controlled Remote Viewing?
Controlled Remote Viewing, or CRV, is the name of a specific, highly
structured scientific methodology which develops and utilizes a non-psychic
person's ability to gain information without the aid of the normal senses,
without logical deduction, without the use of devices, electronics, photos, etc.
In the beginning, the people at Stanford Research Institute wanted to
separate this scientific process from the word psychic as that word
had so many definitions that it had no meaning either. They came up with the
term, remote viewing. As soon as this method gained scientific
acceptance, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and all kinds of people started
calling themselves remote viewers. Ingo Swann came along and said,
Just give me the coordinates of any place and Ill tell you what's
there. He started the protocol of always giving the coordinates of a
location at the beginning of a session and using that as the only information
given to a viewer. The wannabes countered with the statement that they, too,
could use coordinates and therefore they, too, were coordinate remote
viewers. Finally, Ingo came up with the term, Controlled Remote
Viewing. He believed that the word controlled is one thing
that natural psychics and others would tend

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison


 -Caveat Lector-

Thank you for your warm welcome..the first post I opened up was the post accusing you 
to
be someone else.  The mentality of that first message got me wondering about this list.
But I will stick around and see what I can learn, if anything I can learn from
youand others who actually think before they write..

and for those of you wondering if I am someone else from this list check out my isp and
you find out that I am not..I really am me.

Carlene

Carlene

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Carlene,
 Welcome to the list!  This is the second time I've subscribed...and you

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] CTRL List


 -Caveat Lector-

Hiya Kris,

My vote would be for 2 lists: one for discussion and the second one to post
articles.  A combined lists would mean way too many posts.  IMHO.

Hilary

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] A New [Old] Heroin Conspiracy