Re: [CTRL] Ashcroft a Threat to Freedom of Press

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:00:59 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Nasty prejudiced words. The truth is the opposite of this piece.

As usual, the TRUTH is probably somewhere between the two poles.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: WARNING: New date rape drug used against men...

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:25:36 -0500 flw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
   All girls have to do is buy a "BEER" or two for almost any guy
  and then simply ask the guy home for no-strings-attached sex.
  Men are rendered  literally helpless against such tactics.

Sure are, but the beer would have to be a good one.  I may be easy but I
ain't cheap.
Jayson

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[CTRL] nothing changes

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Naval History Wooden Ships and Iron Men
The following is from a tale related by the Chief Curator of the National
Park Service, and printed in no less an authoritative source than
"Oceanographic Ships, Fore and Aft", published by the Oceanographer of
the
Navy. It has to do with a cruise of the 204-foot frigate USS
Constitution,
commonly known as Old Ironsides, in 1779.

The quote:
On 23 August 1779, the USS Constitution set sail from Boston loaded with
475
officers and men, 48,600 gallons of water, 74,000 cannon shot, 11,500
pounds
of black powder and 79,400 gallons of rum. Her mission: to destroy and
harass English shipping. On 6 October, she made Jamaica, took on 826
pounds
of flour and 68,300 gallons of rum. Three weeks later the Constitution
reached the Azores, where she provisioned with 550 pounds of beef and
6,300
gallons of Portuguese wine. On 18 November, the ship set sail for England
where her crew captured and scuttled 12 English merchant vessels and took
aboard their rum. But the Constitution had run out of shot. Nevertheless,
she made her way unarmed up the Firth of Clyde for a night raid. Here her
landing party captured a whiskey distillery, transferred 40,000 gallons
aboard and headed for home. On 20 February 1780, the Constitution arrived
in
Boston with no cannon shot, no food, no powder, no rum, no whiskey. Just
48,600 gallons of water.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Ashcroft Christian Nation Speech at Bob Jones Univ. Should Disqualify No...

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

There is also a general resistance to any more gun laws in the whole west
(except California of course).  I concur that the 'school shootings' were
highly publicized in order to promote ever more rigid gun laws.  By
highly publicizing the first 1 or 2, the media actually CAUSED the rest.

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:26:34 -0800 Tenorlove [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

--- Marilyn Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Considering that much of the most
 sensational school violence has occurred in Bible Belt states,

The school shootings are a set up to condition the public to accept
disarmament. Most of the resistance to same has been in Bible Belt
states. They have the most liberal gun laws, too. The sensationalism
is
NOT accidental.

Tenorlove

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Ashcroft Christian Nation Speech at Bob Jones Univ. Should Disqualify No...

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

They are doing it here in Oregon too.  Funny, but I was wondering if this
is a subtle ad campaign to promote christianity and the republican party.
 Gee, could they be that devious?
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:37:30 -0500 Damaeus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:57:23 -0500, Marilyn Wright
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
posted article [EMAIL PROTECTED], which
said:

 Moreover, I have also noticed in just the past month that the six
 o'clock news is punctuated with advertisements for "Songs of
 Worship"--CDs that center on hymns and songs of Christian
 worship.  I have no objection whatsoever to these ads in and of
 themselves and have seen them often on late nite time slots but
 find it disturbing to see them mixed in the with daily news.
 This is upstate NY and I am wondering if the ads are playing on
 the six o'clock news in the cities, too.

I wonder how long it's going to be before they put Jesus on a Wheaties
box.

Damaeus

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fuzzy22
From: fuzzy22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PCL] POLL: Pardon Clinton?
References: 3A61C4DD.29174.3A074AE@localhost
X-Status: Unsent


On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:25:17 -0600 "kl" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
KL:
That's because most of the sheeple are out dreaming in=20
the fields and still believe they are being protected=20
from the bad guys by the LEA's and the legal system.  I=20
think most folks will never realize how close we are to=20
a total police state until someone they know personally=20
gets robbed by the state for little more than being=20
alive.  But I have confidence that eventually enough=20
eyes will be opened that critical mass will be=20
achieved.  I hope to live to see it.=20=20

More people than you may realize are becoming aware of the "State of the
Union".

KL:
I like the idea of changing the state constitution -=20
here in Oklahoma I think a state rep has introduced a=20
bill to ease the forfeiture laws, but I haven't seen=20
the details.  A constitutional amendment would be a=20
stronger solution no doubt.=20

I find it reprehensible that it takes a Constitutional Amendment to
secure what should be obvious:  You can't take away a person's property
unless you convict them of a crime, or unless you compensate them for the
taking.  The Police State is backed by teh Judicial System.  Another
reason that I do not want Ashcroft in office.

p has introduced a=20
bill to ease the forfeiture laws, but I haven't seen=20
the details.  A constitutional amendment would be a=20


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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Mental disorders set to rise, UN says

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

But the drug companies are making a killing on it.  Maybe one reason the
gov is so insistant that we can not choose our own medication that makes
us feel better.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:03:58 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

June,
You are right that any admission of being "unhappy" is
coming to be viewed as a mental illness.  I have also read
of the return of electro-shock therapy which, to me, is
appalling.  I think anybody receiving this treatment would
never again complain of being unhappy whether they were or
not for fear of a repeat of the treatment.  There was
something in the UN documents concerning this and all people
having a "right" to "treatment" and I wondered at the time
if it meant electro-shock therapy as that seems to pretty
well erase everything personal from one's memory.
We had better be very careful about how we complain in the
future!  And the day may come when we also have the right to
be released from physical pain through euthanasia.
With the UN/NWO view of the world as grossly overpopulated,
guess we had better state we are hap, hap happy! at all
times lest our "rights" be enforced upon us.
Amelia

 - Original Message -
 From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Mental disorders set to rise, UN
 says


  -Caveat Lector-
 
  What bothers me ( I shan't say 'distresses' me, since
 agencies like WHO will construe that to mean I am
  suffering from a psychological disorder) is that no
 attempt is being made to differentiate between clinical
  depression -- which SHOULD be treated with meds -- and a
 natural reaction to one's circumstances.
 
  We now live in a world where any emotion deemed
'negative'
 is also deemed a pschological condition that
  warrants draconian intervention by the medical and
 pharmaceutical establishments.  This is aided and abetted
  by the Boomers, who grew up expecting, and then
demanding,
 instant gratification.
 
  Unhappy that you are stuck in a dead-end job?  Don't
blame
 yourself for being too lazy to extend the effort to
  do what is necessary to change careers; rather, get
 yourself a bottle of DammitAll yellow, for that 'golden
  nothing-at-all' feeling...
 
  Do your kids get on your nerves?  Don't dismiss it as
just
 a phase of growing up, and under no circumstances
  look internally to assess whether your own parenting
 skills leave much to be desired.  No, now parents can
  assure that their little Janies and Johnnies don't act
up
 or sass back, by making sure that little Janie and
  Johnnie are evaluated by the school medicos and duly
 prescribed any range of medications to make little Janie
  and Johnnie pliable and easy to control.  After all,
what
 authority figure wants to admit that they themselves
  may be making the children in their care 'depressed'?
 
  And when your children and your childrens' peers start
 killing themselves, perhaps taking a few companions
  along with them, blame it on society, blame it on the
 music they listen to, blame it on the video games they
  play, blame it on everything and anything, except
 yourselves.
 
 
  So let's start medicating into oblivion all those who
are
 unhappy with the status quo (remember how the
  Soviets used to throw all dissidents into mental
 hospitals?)...it is easier to deem someone who is
 'depressed'
  because they live amongst poverty and disease as
suffering
 from a mental disease, and remove the 'depression'
  via drugs, than spend the time, effort, and money in
 removing the CAUSE of such emotion...
 
  So beware of articulating too stridently your
unhappiness
 with the government and/or the society it is bring
  about, because soon that will be deemed 'proof' of your
 suffering a mental disease (after all, you are
  admitting being unhappy about something), and you will
be
 forced to take meds to remove the feeling of
  unhappiness, or to be 'put away for the benefit of
 society'...
 
 
  June

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Re: [CTRL] FW: [RRE]restoring the Confederacy

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:16:35 -0600 kl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

How does Carl's least corrupt/offensive/restrictive government differ
from Libertarianism?

Probably not much.  Depends on the details.  I was just tossing out my
core belief.

Creeds must disagree: it is the whole fun of the thing.
If I think the universe is triangular, and you think it is square,
there cannot be room for two universes. We may argue politely,
we may argue humanely, we may argue with great mutual benefit;
but, obviously, we must argue. Modern toleration is really a tyranny.
It is a tyranny because it is a silence. To say that I must not deny
my opponent's faith is to say I must not discuss it . . . It is
absurd to have a discussion on Comparative Religions if you don't
compare them. - G. K. Chesterton

Good quote.  I love discussion.

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Re: [CTRL] Global warming claims 'based on false data'??

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

In my field we use other indicators as to climate temps over time.  One
of the more important being records of ice in various parts of the world.
 From all I have seen there is a general warming pattern for the past
14,000 years.  Jayson
On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:31:42 EST DIG alfred webre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Are there any comments or retorts to this controversial report?
==
LONDON TELEGRAPH   Jan. 14, 2001
Global warming claims 'based on false data'
By Robert Matthews

FRESH doubt has been cast on evidence for global warming following the
discovery that a key method of measuring temperature change has
exaggerated
the warming rate by almost 40 per cent.

Studies of temperature records dating back more than a century have
seemed to
indicate a rise in global temperature of around 0.5 ° C, with much of
it
occurring since the late 1970s. This has led many scientists to
believe that
global warming is under way, with the finger of blame usually pointed
at
man-made pollution such as carbon dioxide.

Now an international team of scientists, including researchers from
the Met
Office in Bracknell, Berkshire, has found serious discrepancies in
these
temperature measurements, suggesting that the amount of global warming
is
much less than previously believed.

The concern focuses on the temperature of the atmosphere over the sea,
which
covers almost three quarters of the Earth's surface. While scientists
use
standard weather station instruments to detect warming on land, they
have
been forced to rely on the crews of ships to make measurements over
the vast
ocean regions.

Crews have taken the temperature by dipping buckets into the sea or
using
water flowing into the engine intakes. Scientists have assumed that
there is
a simple link between the temperature of seawater and that of the air
above
it.

However, after analysing years of data from scientific buoys in the
Pacific
that measure sea and air temperatures simultaneously, the team has
found no
evidence of a simple link. Instead, the seawater measurements have
exaggerated the amount of global warming over the seas, with the real
temperature having risen less than half as fast during the 1970s than
the
standard measurements suggest.

Reporting their findings in the influential journal Geophysical
Research
Letters, the scientists say that the exact cause of the discrepancy is
not
known. One possibility is that the atmosphere responded faster than
the sea
to cooling events such as volcanic eruptions.

The findings have major implications for the climate change debate
because
the sea temperature measurements are a key part of global warming
calculations. According to the team, replacing the standard seawater
data
with the appropriate air data produces a big cut in the overall global
warming rate during the last 20 years, from around 0.18¡C per decade
to
0.13¡C.

This suggests that the widely-quoted global warming figure used to
persuade
governments to take action over greenhouse gases exaggerates the true
warming
rate by almost 40 per cent. The team is now calling for climate
experts to
switch from seawater data to sea-air temperature measurements.

One member of the team, David Parker, of the Hadley Centre for Climate
Prediction and Research at the Met Office, said that the discovery of
the
discrepancy "shows we don't understand everything, and that we need
better
observations - all branches of science are like that". Yet according
to Mr
Parker, the new results do not undermine the case for global warming:
"It is
raising questions about the interpretation of the sea-surface data."

Even so, the findings will be seized on by sceptics as more evidence
that
scientists have little idea about the current rate of global warming,
let
alone its future rate. Climate experts are still trying to explain why
satellites measuring the temperature of the Earth have detected little
sign
of global warming - despite taking measurements during supposedly the
warmest
period on record.

Some researchers suspect that the fault may again lie with the
ground-based
temperature measurements. They say that many of the data come from
stations
surrounded by growing urban sprawl, whose warmth could give a
misleading
figure. A study of data taken around Vienna, Austria, between 1951 and
1996
found that the air temperature rose by anything from zero to 0.6¡C,
depending
on precisely where the measurements were made.

 __
EcoNews Service - Always online for Exopolitics  a Universe Ecology.
EcoNews http://www.ecologynews.com/
Prague  http://mujweb.cz/www/ecologynews/
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [CTRL] FW: [RRE]restoring the Confederacy

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:33:50 EST Carl Amedio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/12/01 5:27:27 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 You statement is unquestionably true - however I fail miserably
 when I try to understand how a self-professed anarchist ends up
 supporting a government, laws, a judicial system.

Carl Replies:
I will just speak for myself. Rational Anarchism acknowledges that all
government is inherently corrupt.  It also understands stands that
humanity by its very nature, needs social organization/government. hence
it is
concomitant upon the rational anarchist to seek that social
organization/government which isleastcorrupt/offensive/restrictive.

Jayson writes:
"The theory that regards the absence of all direct or coersive government
as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary
association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of civilized
society."  That is my ideal.  However, Libertarianism is a viable and
acceptable step in that direction.  It does us all good when the
Republicrats fight among themselves.  It shows them for what they are.
If we can use their own words, actions and even institutions against
them, so much the better.  Tea Party anyone?
Jayson
(Gotta lay off the exprsso late at night)

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[CTRL] The Resolution

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

   A Libertarian's New Year's Resolutions

   by Harry Browne

1. I resolve to _sell_ liberty by appealing to the
   self-interest of each prospect, rather than _preaching_
   to people and expecting them to suddenly adopt my ideas
   of right and wrong.
2. I resolve to keep from being drawn into arguments or
   debates. My purpose is to inspire people to want liberty
   -- not to prove that they're wrong.
3. I resolve to _listen_ when people tell me of their wants
   and needs, so I can help them see how a free society will
   satisfy those needs.
4. I resolve to identify myself, when appropriate, with the
   social goals someone may seek -- a cleaner environment,
   more help for the poor, a less divisive society -- and
   try to show him that those goals can never be achieved by
   government, but will be well served in a free society.
5. I resolve to be compassionate and respectful of the
   beliefs and needs that lead people to seek government
   help. I don't have to approve of their subsidies or
   policies -- but if I don't acknowledge their needs, I
   have no hope of helping them find a better way to solve
   their problems.
6. No matter what the issue, I resolve to keep returning to
   the central point: how much better off the individual
   will be in a free society.
7. I resolve to acknowledge my good fortune in having been
   born an American. Any plan for improvement must begin
   with a recognition of the good things we have. To speak
   only of America's defects will make me a tiresome crank.
8. I resolve to focus on the ways America could be so much
   better with a very small government -- not to dwell on
   all the wrongs that exist today.
9. I resolve to cleanse myself of hate, resentment, and
   bitterness. Such things steal time and attention from the
   work that must be done.
   10. I resolve to speak, dress, and act in a respectable
   manner. I may be the first Libertarian someone has
   encountered, and it's important that he get a good first
   impression. No one will hear the message if the messenger
   is unattractive.
   11. I resolve to remind myself that someone's "stupid"
   opinion may be an opinion I once held. If _I_ can grow,
   why can't I help _him_ grow?
   12. I resolve not to raise my voice in any discussion. In a
   shouting match, no one wins, no one changes his mind, and
   no one will be inspired to join our quest for a free
   society.
   13. I resolve not to adopt the tactics of Republicans and
   Democrats. They use character assassination, evasions,
   and intimidation because they have no real benefits to
   offer Americans. We, on the other hand, are offering to
   set people free -- and so we can win simply by focusing
   on the better life our proposals will bring.
   14. I resolve to be civil to my opponents and treat them with
   respect. However anyone chooses to treat me, it's
   important that I be a better person than my enemies.

   * * *

   Wow. Not only is that inspiring -- anyone who followed
   Harry's campaign knows that he actually *kept* his New Year's
   resolutions to a remarkable degree! If enough of us follow
   Harry's advice, we can make 2001 the best year yet for the
   libertarian movement -- and that's something to aspire to.

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[CTRL] Patience

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

 PERSUASION POWER POINT #97

Chinese Bamboo

   ...retold by Michael Cloud

   Chinese farmers raise an interesting variety of bamboo.

   One day they plant and fertilize the bamboo. They water it
   properly.

   They water it all spring and summer. No bamboo breaks through
   the soil.

   The next year, they water their fields. No bamboo comes up.

   The next year and the next year, they water it still.

   Finally, the fifth year, bamboo shoots break through the
   topsoil.

   In a period of 6 weeks, the Chinese Bamboo grows 90 feet
   tall.

   90 feet of growth in only 6 weeks!

   Why? How?

   For 5 years, the Chinese Bamboo was developing a root
   structure capable of supporting and sustaining a 90-foot
   plant.

   For 5 years, the Chinese Bamboo was securing its foundations.

   For 5 years, the Chinese Bamboo was preparing to break
   through... and rise.

   Suppose the farmers had deserted the fields after 1 year
   because no bamboo had broken through.

   Suppose the farmers had quit after 2 years because they
   believed that "the crop was a failure."

   Suppose they walked away after 3 years or 4 years because
   their "more practical" neighbors were able to grow weeds year
   after year with little effort.

   Chinese Bamboo takes care and cultivation to raise.

   It takes a long-view to begin. And faith and endurance to see
   it through.

   The Libertarian Movement may be like Chinese Bamboo.

   Some sprouts are just beginning to see sunlight.

   Others may break through soon.

   We must water and nurture them.

   We must plant more and more and more libertarian seeds... so
   that when the massive, swift growth happens... it happens
   everywhere in America.

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Re: [CTRL] [endsecrecy] Right-wing idealogue as Att Gen?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:22:57 EST "Samantha L." [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
  If this appointment process were carefully scripted it couldn't have
been done more prefectly.  Chavez drws fire and takes the heat off
Ashcroft.  Many think her appointment was intended to do that.  She
backs down and the heat is back on Ashcroft.  Thank God Almighty the
heat is back on
Ashcroft But WAIT.  Everyone is ignoring Rumsfeld.   Aha!  It
worked.
That slippery sucker is going to glide on through.
Samantha

It is a double layered tactic.  Chavez takes the initial heat over
something that is questionable.  A lot of people feel that what she did,
though illegal in a technical sense, was a good thing.  They are
ambivilent about dumping on her for this, ignoring the other things she
stands for that are the real issues, and why we should oppose her
nomination.  Then comes Ashcroft.  We are already set up, via the Chavez
thing, to have some sympathy for him.  I'm pretty confident that he will
also fail.  That really puts everyone in a bipartisan mood, after all we
shot down the first two nominations of George II.  The really nasty
people are subsequently passed in a rush of fellowship.  Corporate
America directly takes over the government instead of just owning the
people in charge.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Lets Not Return to Peyton Place

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:06:32 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
In a message dated 01/11/2001 11:45:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Oh Prudy, was JFK a sodomist?   I am sure if he had been, it would
have been reported by the press

I'd bet money on it.

You'd win.  Sodomy includes oral sex.  JFK did love his BJ's.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Would you strip to beat a DWI ticket?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:47:06 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
So Jayson,  these days things are just not as they sometimes seem to
be.

Would I strip for $15,000,000 - fifteen million dollars that is - yes,
but for $1,200 which would have been drunk driving cost - hell no.   I
have some pride.

No, I think in this case things are just what they appear to be.  We know
what is for sale, but are just arguing the price;)
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Would you strip to beat a DWI ticket?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:13:51 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
That is an old joke, Jason.

Sorry!  But you laid yourself bare for that one.  (OOOPS I did it again.
SORRY)

 this is why I wonder if there was really a cop involved - he has not
been proven to be the one yet, or just this after noon it came out a
man in the mid west was arrested - had all these flashing lights in his
car, and he pretended to be policeman and pulled over women, etc.

Yeah, that happens a lot.  I was married to a cop for 18 years, and my
brother is a Lt. in the State Police.

So something rather strange about this.so quick to name a price to
sue - $15,000,000 and you know many cops hang around with some strange
peoplecould be scam?

Well, the legal trick (under our current system) is to come in at a high
figure and settle for less.  There is always the possibility of a scam,
but that will play out soon enough.  The interesting thing for me to
watch is how the cop is "handled" if it turns out he is a real cop.  Who
is paying his legal expenses, who is represented at the brgaining table,
etc.  Many cops do indeed know some strange people.  Some cops are pretty
"strange" in their own right.  Power Corrupts.

Both women sue each for $15,000,000 -and look what the lawyer gets.
Be interesting case to follow.how easy it is to set up someone.

The lawyer probably gets 1/3.  It is all too easy to set someone up if
you know how and have the right connections.

Still think this reeks of some type of scam .the one woman looked
really rough

Don't judge on looks.

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Has America lost its Goodness?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

And that is how it has been for thousands of years.  Basic life.  Too bad
we have been led so far from the path.
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:31:59 -0600 kl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:00:03 -0800, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:

In the America of older times, whole families of children were
taken in by neighbors if their parents died.  Widows received food,
fuel and other help from neighbors if it was needed.  The old were
kept in the homes and maintained; so were the
mentally and physically afflicted.  Hungry people were given food.
Sick people were helped and treated by neighbors and doctors
who could only hope for remuneration.  Neighbors helped each
other with the plowing, the planting and the harvesting.   If a
woman died in childbirth and the baby lived, a neighbor woman
might volunteer to nurse the child along with her own.  In other
words, people cared for and helped people.

Anyone offering or receiving such help these days will very likely be
paid a visit by the IRS demanding their cut.

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: NOV - DEC coldest on record

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Don't let the short term fluctuations fool you.  Global Warming is
happening.  Pollutants and chemicals in the atmosphere are harmfull, but
in the cycle of weather over the long haul, we have been in a general
warming trend for the past 14,000 years.  Change is not always bad, we
could lose most of California and all of Florida;)
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:03:17 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
So are we in immenent danger from global warming or not?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010105/aponline133428_000=
.htm
Nov.-Dec. Was Coldest on Record=20
By Randolph E. Schmid=20
Associated Press Writer=20
Friday, Jan. 5, 2001; 1:34 p.m. EST=20
WASHINGTON =AD=AD The suspicions of millions of shivering Americans
were confirmed Friday by government weather experts it was the
nation's coldest November-December period.
"Two months in a row of much below average temperatures resulted in
the coldest November-December U.S. temperature on record, 33.8 degrees
Fahrenheit," said Jay Lawrimore, chief of the Climate Monitoring
Branch at the National Climatic Data Center. This broke the old record
of 34.2
set in 1898.
It was the country's second coldest November nationwide and the
seventh coldest December, according to records kept by the Center in
Asheville, N.C.

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Re: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:09:55 -0500 Marilyn Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

On 7 Jan 01, at 14:01, Jayson R. Jones wrote:
 Every time I bring this up in public there is a dead silence.  How
can churches get away with running for profit schools, factories,
rentals, and such and not pay taxes?  The Organized Chruches in this
country
 are vastly rich, and getting ever richer.  Yet they do not pay taxes.
 Jayson

Actually, money and  poverty has always been a major issue within
the church and I do believe that some groups who advocated
following Jesus' example and living austerely, frugally, and sharing
cooperatively with others --which you may call "socialistic" or even
"communistic" --have been excommunicated for the commission of
heresy. I believe this was one of the issues between the Cathars
and the Church leading to horrific massacres--See The
Albegensian heresy.

I very much admire the way the Amish, and others of that mindset, live.
I do not mean the beliefs they hold or their religious practices.  What I
mean is they live simply, and well.  They take care of the land, and
themselves at the same time.  The are respectfull to each other and share
equally.  That is neither socialism nor communism.

The Church, it seems, is aligned with money--since money gives
power. Humility and poverty are reserved for poor priests whose
parishes embrace the poor in remote outposts. "The Name of the
Rose" by Umberto Ecco also had this issue of money/poverty as a
central issue and it did involve, if I remember correctly, advocating
poverty as a heresy.
sno0wl

I don't know where you're going here.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Wiccan Pseudohistory

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

There has been much research that shows the power of the mind over the
body.  Some of the better known are the studies using cancer patients.
The ceremony was part of the cure.  The patient believes that the
medicine will work and therefore it does.  An advancement of the Placebo
Effect.  Your mind can make you sick and your mind can heal your body.
Ceremony is the delivery vehicle.  Makes no difference if it is White
Witchcraft, VooDoo, Christian Prayer or any other ceremony; if you
believe it will cure you then it probably will help you.  Combine that
with knowledge of natural medicine and you have a pretty good medical
system for most patients.  We know that brain surgery took place at least
5000 years ago, and the patients survived. (Healed areas in anciet skulls
prove this).  We have physical evidence of the use of many herbs that go
back 35,000 years, and they are the chemical basis for much of what we
have today.  The use of wine, beer and marijuana can be traced back at
least 8000 years, and are today being understood as good for you in
moderate amounts.   It is the belief, not what is believed, that has
power.
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:20:43 - Johannes Schmidt III
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

The lethal nature of medicine in centuries past is well documented,
however the effectiveness of traditional medicines in some areas
is/was little better.

Your points about midwifery are quite true, this is an area which
women have always been pre-eminent.

However, none of this alters the fact that, with the exception of a
few hapy co-incidences, the types of cures offered by 'Wise Women'
etc., consisted mainly of prayers, invoking of angels or devils,
talismans, potions with no beneficial effect, strange rituals (animal
sacrifice, burying potatoes in the light of the moon, unlikely
aphrodisiacs) etc. I am sure there are numerous practices which have a
negative effect on subjects practiced by WW, but which aren't much
touted by their fanclub.

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Re: [CTRL] Would you strip to beat a DWI ticket?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

So your just a more expensive stripper8-)  What would it take to get a
dance thrown in?

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:14:54 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Ah Jayson, I would strip for 15 million dollars - two different women
now sue for 15 million each...if this was the man and he was a
policeman, wonder if someone did not make a deal.

Now this alleged officer, was he on duty?   Was he a real policeman?
What a set up - who are these ladies - well  wonder someone had not
set
up a camera in advance - like Rodney King and Zapruder film..

Did anybody see these "ladies" walking home in the cold in that
condition?

15 million dollars?   Yes I think for 15 million dollars I would oben
an
officers commandand split 50/50 with him after the suit is filed.

Were any of these ladies prostitutes?   Soundns like a scene from that
Stern's show not too long ago where this woman was paid to go into
streets in - well almost nothing.

Even playboy doesn't pay that much.

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Re: [CTRL] Has America lost its Goodness?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Bob,
While I don't agree with every word, I certainly agree with the
general tone of what yu said.  All to often we argue amongst ourselves as
to the proper label, to which nuance are we addressing which comment,
etc.  I truly believe that most people would agree with most of what you
said.  If we ever got together and realized we had essentially the same
goals, but differed as to the causes, means and philosophies, there would
be another revolution in this country.
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:02:04 EST Bob Stokes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/7/01 1:12:56 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 Why is sex the only thing that strikes you as immoral?  In the
America of
 older times, whole families of children were taken in by neighbors if
their
 parents died.  Widows received food, fuel and other help from
neighbors if it
 was needed.  The old were kept in the homes and maintained; so were
the
 mentally and physically afflicted.  Hungry people were given food.
Sick
 people were helped and treated by neighbors and doctors who could
only hope
 for remuneration.  Neighbors helped each other with the plowing, the
planting
 and the harvesting.  If a woman died in childbirth and the baby
lived, a
 neighbor woman might volunteer to nurse the child along with her own.
 In
 other words, people cared for and helped people.  That is the
goodness that
 DeTocqueville was talking about.  It was unlikely that he spent his
time
 dwelling on the possibility that women were having abortions or that
there
 was homosexuality loose in the land.  In this day,  when neighbors
are only
 concerned about controlling the actions of their neighbors and trying
to
 amass the most "stuff," there is every possibility that DeTocqueville
would
 believe that "goodness" has been lost. 

You've made some very good observations and comments here.  Things
were very
different before WWII.  Government wasn't involved in every aspect of
our
lives.  People lived together as real neighbors that cared for each
other.
They depended on each other, not the Mommy-Daddy government we have
today.
The government didn't regulate everything and give tax advantages to
corporate (rich) interests.  Taxes were a very small part of a
person's
income, then the "Do-gooders" of the Democratic Party changed things
to help
the poor, the minorities, the infirm, the people who could not control
their
sexual urges or their urges that made them rape, kill, murder, steal
...
after all these people weren't bad people and drunks weren't drunks by
choice, an illness made them drink ... they were "sick" not
irresponsible
(and the Republicans went along with it). Few people worked for
massive
corporations -- they worked at jobs where the business was owned by
local
people -- they didn't buy groceries in a Supermarket, they bought them
at the
Mom  Pop grocery store.  They didn't go out and buy a Japanese or
German
car, they bought an American car made by an American, their neighbors.
 Fact
is nearly everything they bought was made in America.  Neighborhoods
stayed
together, people lived in the same house most of their life rather
than being
moved all over the country by the Corporation for which they work.
Then the
Republicans got in office and used their influence to give even more
power to
corporate interests in the name of Americanism and proceeded to set
the stage
for moving businesses from a local level to a national level resulting
in
mega-business and an end to the neighborhood economy (and the
Democrats
helped pass these measures).  All this time both parties passed tens
of
thousands of laws and regulations to control people who couldn't
control
themselves and to supposedly help people who couldn't help themselves.
 And,
We the People voted for all these politicians who changed life in
America to
what it is today until our culture no longer exists.  We brought this
shitty
way of life on ourselves by not being wary of government  -- now only
an
armed revolution will end the relationship between government and
Corporations.  Any thing less than armed resistance will be futile
because
those that have the power aren't going to give it up without a fight.
It's
not about sex, it's about common decency, but common decency has been
redefined by those that make the laws and define what is taught in
schools so
that now there is not any common decency even at the highest levels of
government, in once respected teaching positions and certainly all
respect
for police has also been mitigated.  It's not about sex, nor morality
--
we've lost common courtesy and have only ourselves to blame ...
Conspiracy
maybe had something to do with it, but selfishness and not bothering
to care
about the important things in life are the real causes.  If decent men
and
women had cared enough about this country and their children -- things
would
not be this way, but if you do nothing, the corrupt individuals will
define
government and 

[CTRL] Would you strip to beat a DWI ticket?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:46:34 -0700 MICHAEL SPITZER [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.msnbc.com/news/MSNBCCABLE_Front.asp
http://www.msnbc.com/news/512352.asp

MSNBC SURVEY:

Would you accept a DWI arrest or take off your clothes?

Considering that a DUI in this state costs about $1500 PLUS the possible
forfeiture of your vehicle, I'd not only strip, but I'd dance too.
However, as I am an over 50 white male I don't think that would go over
well.  I might get "confinement for observation" at the local psych ward.
 Women get all the breaks.
Jayson

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:41:28 -0800 Cliff Hume [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
When you are checking out you history of Christianity, also look for
the numbers of people who have been turned away from Christianity for
the
atrocities perpetrated in the name of religion or faith.

Millions of people belong to churches who listen to and believe the
pastors or preachers, or whatever name they might be called, but the
majority
of them are turning people away from Christianity. Some of those who are
preaching from the pulpits are socialists and communists, the
difference between the two being nil.

Most of the preachers are pretty right wing republicans.  I don't get the
impression that they are either communist or socialist.  Isn't the
Religious Right the driving force in the republican party?

The churches which operate with a government sanctioned, tax-free
status, should be suspect, because the minute they begin to teach and
preach
the truth, their free ride at the expense of the tax-payers is canceled.
Of course, the tax thing is a whole new topic to cover, because it is
an illegal, 'voluntary' scam, enforced by criminal governments.
Yours very truly,
Cliff Hume.

Every time I bring this up in public there is a dead silence.  How can
churches get away with running for profit schools, factories, rentals,
and such and not pay taxes?  The Organized Chruches in this country are
vastly rich, and getting ever richer.  Yet they do not pay taxes.
Jayson

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] DPFOR: New York Times: Another Prohibition, Another Failure

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/30/opinion/30JOHN.html

December 30, 2000

Another Prohibition, Another Failure

By GARY E. JOHNSON

ANTA FE, N.M. -- While many Americans followed the coverage of President
Clinton's symbolic gesture granting clemency to two federal drug
offenders
last week, an important development in national drug policy received less
attention: Mr. Clinton became the first sitting president to question the
impact of our nation's war on drugs.

In a recent issue of Rolling Stone magazine, Mr. Clinton said he
supported
decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana and an end to the
disparity
in sentencing for offenses involving crack and powder cocaine. He also
questioned the use of mandatory sentences for nonviolent drug offenders
and
called for serious reconsideration of the federal imprisonment policies
that result in hundreds of thousands of nonviolent drug offenders winding
up behind bars for years.

I hope that governors, members of Congress and other elected officials
will
take note of Mr. Clinton's comments. Americans want policies that save
lives, keep drugs out of the hands of children and humanely treat those
suffering from drug addiction. The drug war accomplishes none of that.
Too
many Americans have lost faith in our approach to the war on drugs, as
shown on Election Day when voters in five states approved various ballot
initiatives that moderate harsh drug policies, including some measures
that
allow drug treatment instead of prison for nonviolent offenders or
approve
the medical use of marijuana when it is recommended by a doctor.

As governor of New Mexico, I have called repeatedly for a serious
reevaluation of our current drug strategies. I'm neither soft on crime
nor
pro-drugs in any sense. Yet when I ask whether our costly, protracted war
on drugs has made the world safer for our children, I must answer no.

The federal anti-drug budget in 1980 was roughly $1 billion. By 2000,
that
number had climbed to nearly $20 billion, with the states spending at
least
that much. Yet according to the federal government's own research, drugs
are cheaper, purer and more readily available than ever before. As a
nation
we now have nearly half a million people behind bars on drug charges,
more
than the total prison population in all of Western Europe. And the burden
of this explosion in incarceration falls disproportionately on black and
Latino communities.

When we consider the social and public health costs, the illogic of our
distinction between legal and illegal drugs is staggering. Nearly 70
million Americans have smoked marijuana, which remains the third-most
popular recreational drug in the country after tobacco and alcohol.
Deaths
attributable to marijuana are very rare. In fact, deaths from all illegal
drugs combined, including cocaine and heroin, are fewer than 20,000
annually. By contrast, more than 450,000 Americans die each year from
tobacco or alcohol use (not counting drunk-driving fatalities). Should we
outlaw liquor and cigarettes? Ask anyone who remembers our nation's
disastrous experiment with alcohol prohibition.

Perhaps the most pernicious aspect of the drug war, in fact, is the crime
and violence that drug prohibition generates. Without achieving anything
like the goal of a drug-free America, our policies have empowered a
lethal
black market, complete with international armies of latter- day Al
Capones.
Their warfare against each other and against law enforcement will not be
stopped until the public takes the regulation and control of their
commodity away from them.

In considering alternatives, we might look to Holland as a model. The
Dutch, who decriminalized marijuana in 1976 and treat drug addiction
medically rather than criminally, enjoy far lower rates of crime and drug
use than we do.

It is not outlandish to suggest that an alternative approach might lead
to
less drug-related harm, less imprisonment and less crime in America as
well. Let me be very clear: We must never tolerate the violence resulting
from the use of drugs. But neither should we, nor do we have to, tolerate
the needless casualties of drug prohibition.

Here in New Mexico, I am looking for new ways to deal with drug- related
problems at the state level. We are working to redirect our resources
into
drug education programs; into harm reduction programs like needle
exchange
for injection drug users, which has been proven by numerous government
studies to reduce the spread of diseases like AIDS and hepatitis without
increasing drug use; and into treatment programs like methadone
maintenance, the treatment proven most effective for heroin addiction.

President Clinton's recent words on drug-policy reforms were a welcome
first step. His comments should be the start of a new national debate,
and
not simply the last word of a departing administration.

Gary E. Johnson, a Republican, is the governor of New Mexico.

Copyright 2000 The New York Times Company

Forwarded by:
Arthur 

Re: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:30:29 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Generally this is true...but Indonesia has been having a lot of civil
turmoil the past couple of years, and
the divisions are drawn along religion lines -- Islam against
Christianity against Buddhists and animists
(immigrants from China and other far-eastern countries); it is like
the Catholics and Protestants of Northern
Ireland...while factions are drawn along the lines of religious
affiliation, the actual gripes have little to
do with religion...

Unfortunately there HAVE been a number of slaughters occuring in
Indonesia over the past 2 years...
June

So it would be fair to say that their "Christianity" had less to do with
their deaths than their political standing?  I'll bet the christians will
make a big issue out of the fact that they were christians and play down
the political reality.
Jayson

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Foreign Press Views bush presidency as Fraudulent

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:06:52 EST Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
FOREIGN PRESS QUESTIONS U.S. ELECTION

He's still George II our unelected president to me and many others.  It
should be interesting though.  If he gets Ashcroft through, AND holds the
economy together, he may just slide through with little active protest
(Ashcroft will make sure any public protest is squelched).  If Ashcroft
fails to pass, but the economy stays strong, there will not be too much
protest (depending on what other moves he makes).  If Ashcroft fails AND
the economy goes poop, George II may be the first president run out on a
rail.  Th EU is sizing this turkey up to see how best to break the
stranglehold the U.S. holds on the rest of the world.  The inherited Plan
Columbia should put Central and South America firmly against us.  His
trade policy with Canada and Mexico is based on the continued strength of
the U.S. monetarily and militarily.  A weakened U.S. will not be able to
muscle favorable trade agreements from either of these two.  George II
seems to be too dubya to realize he has big credibility problems.

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Art Bell Back on Air Feb 5, 2001

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

June, what is your problem with Art Bell?   He is one of the best
interviewers on radio.   He also deals with all kinds of things that
would never make it on the air, and he deals with them fairly.  CTRL is
the LAST place I would expect to hear criticism of Art Bell.  His
replacements were not up to the task and were losing audience.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:15:34 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 ART BELL BACK ON AIR FEB. 5, 2001

Was there any doubt that he WOULD eventually be back?

 Bell states, "The negotiation was brutal and bloody! The result...
fewer commercials and back to five hours."

Well, quitting IS one way of forcing your own terms to be accepted...

 Bell resigned last April because of family and legal issues that
required his full attention.

Yeah, right.

 "I am ecstatic to welcome Art Bell back to his program," said Kraig
T. Kitchin, president/COO of Premiere Radio Networks. "It was a bloody
 negotiation - pulling someone out of retirement always is. I am
wildly enthusiastic to bring the news to affiliates and listeners
nationwide... imagine their reaction! I also want to add my thanks to
Mike
Siegel."

Who, I am sure, is simply thrilled to have been used as a patsy in
Art's machiavellian machinizations

June

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Wiccan Pseudohistory

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:57:15 EST William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
From Sex to Superconsciousness - http://www.truthbeknown.com

--- ListBot Sponsor --
Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb
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The Scholars and the Goddess.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/01/allen.htm

Historically speaking, the "ancient" rituals of the Goddess movement
are almost certainly bunk by Charlotte Allen
WICCA, sometimes known as the Goddess movement, Goddess spirituality,
or the Craft, appears to be the fastest-growing religion in America.
Thirty
years ago only a handful of Wiccans existed. One scholar has estimated
that
there are now more than 200,000 adherents of Wicca and related
"neopagan"
faiths in the United States, the country where neopaganism, like many
formal
religions, is most flourishing. Wiccans -- who may also call themselves
Witches
capital W is meant to distance them from the word's negative
connotations, because Wiccans neither worship Satan nor practice the
sort of
malicious magic traditionally associated with witches) or just plain
pagans
(often with a capital P) -- tend to be white, middle-class, highly
educated,
and politically involved in liberal and environmental causes. About a
third of them are men. Wiccan services have been held on at least
fifteen
U.S. military bases and ships
Starhawk offers a vivid summary of the history of the faith,
explaining that witchcraft is "perhaps the oldest
religion extant in the West" and that it began "more than
thirty-five thousand years ago," during the last Ice Age. The religion's

earliest adherents worshipped two deities, one of each sex: "the Mother
Goddess, the birthgiver, who brings into existence all life," and the
"Horned God,"
a male hunter who died and was resurrected each year.

 In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true.
The evidence is overwhelming that Wicca is a distinctly
new religion, a 1950s concoction influenced by such things as Masonic
ritual and a late-nineteenth-century fascination with the esoteric and
the
occult, and that various assumptions informing the Wiccan view of
history are
deeply flawed. Furthermore, scholars generally agree that there is no
indication, either archaeological or in the written record, that any
ancient
people ever worshipped a single, archetypal goddess -- a conclusion that
strikes
at the heart of Wiccan belief. IN the past few years two well-respected
scholars have independently advanced essentially the same theory about
Wicca's founding. In 1998 Philip G. Davis, a professor of religion at
the
University of Prince Edward Island, published Goddess Unmasked: The Rise
of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality, which argued that Wicca was the
creation of
an English civil servant and amateur anthropologist named Gerald B.
Gardner(1884-1964)

Enough.  Modern Wiccan, Witchcraft, etc has the same relationship to the
past practices of witchcraft and shammanism as Modern Christianity has to
Abraham, Moses or Jesus.  Almost none.  They are all different
manifestations of the same belief system.  Whether the belief is in
multiple gods and goddess' or in one god, makes no difference.  Some
people have always needed to believe in something to explain what they do
not know.  Prayer of any kind can allow the mind the freedom to heal the
body or do any number of other "miraculous" things.  Science is not
proving that.  I can tell you that the Archaeological record has better
documentation for early belief systems than they do for the folk lore in
the bible.

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:34:03 -0600 "Stopforth, Jamie"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
if you think it is literal then do oyu really want a god who wants
to keep you ignorant- but protects you?

give me the apple baby...

If the above is an example of your reasoning, you must have had some
bad apples.
Jamie

Personally, I prefer IBM Clones.  However, an apple (the fruit) a day
keeps me from getting ignorant again.  It reminds me that there are those
out there who believe in a vengfull god who arbitrarily denies this and
that to show his power.  Gee, sounds like the government.  Please pass
the apples (the fruit) over here.  Don't Bogart that apple my friend.
When god gives you apples, make apple juice.  You go girl.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Californias Power Crisis - a natural result of rampant Environmentalism

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:50:49 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

From: "Nessie" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If anybody remembers the contrived gas shortages of the 1970s,

Yes, it was later shown that there WAS no 'shortage', and in fact the
big oil companies had had plenty of
reserve oil anchored offshore (as you observed), and the whole thing
was manipulated by them just so that the
prices could be artificially inflated to an extent that the public
wouldn't have accepted otherwise...

I worked for the oil companies in the 70's.  I was involved in their
offshore drilling and production.  In the first place, I can tell you
that there was no shortage.  Every tank, tanker and barge was full.  Not
only was the price raised, but there were government handouts put into
law.  The government gave the oil companies a tax free gift when they
allowed the oil companies to write off all expenses incurred in the
search for new sources of oil.  This allowed the oil companies to search
for new oil without any cost to the company.  The result was that the
companies drilled holes all over the place, but capped them BEFORE they
broke through to the oil lying below, and writing off the whole thing as
'unprofitable' based on the data from the level they STOPPED DRILLING AT.
 Once the whole thing died down, all they had to do was come back to
these "unprofitable" wells and drill a few more feet to find very
profitable deposits of oil.  What a deal!  Raise prices AND get the
taxpayers to fund finding more oil.  I strongly suspect the same sort of
thing is happening with the current energy crisis.

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Re: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:25:53 EST William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/3/01 4:54:44 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Jakarta:  Muslims have slaughtered 93 Christians  on  a
   small island of the  Maluku chain for refusing to convert to
   Islam, a church activist said

And this compares to the wholesale slaughter of non-xians during the
Crusades and up 'til today how?
Bill.

In the first place, I have some grave reservations about the veracity of
this blurb.  It does not correspond to what little I know of Islam, in
that Islam does not have any evangelicism (convert or die) in its
history.  No religion other than christianity does.  Secondly, as Bill
points out, it is christians who have historically slaughtered
nonbelievers when they object to forced conversion.  I suspect that, if
this 'slaughter' actually happened, it was for far different reasons than
given here.
--part1_e3.e8b2247.27852b21_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaFONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED"
FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"In a message dated 1/3/01 4:54:44 PM
Central Standard Time, BR[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
BR
BR/FONTFONT  COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0"
BRBLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"gt;
nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;Jakarta:
nbsp;Muslims have slaughtered 93 Christians nbsp;on nbsp;a
BRgt; nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;small island of the
nbsp;Maluku chain for refusing to convert to
BRgt; nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;Islam, a church activist said
nbsp;yesterday./BLOCKQUOTE
BR/FONTFONT  COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier
New" LANG="0"
BR
BRAnd this compares to the wholesale slaughter of non-xians during
the Crusades BRand up 'til today how?
BR
BRBill./FONT/HTML

--part1_e3.e8b2247.27852b21_boundary--

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Re: [CTRL] Christians and Conspiracy Theory

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 09:53:53 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Mythology: other people's religion

Dangerous Mythology:  Other people's beliefs that conflict with yours.

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Re: [CTRL] What's ahead for Freedom Lovers?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Bill, I have to agree with this assessment.  There are three things that
have to occur: 1. a precipitating event, 2. a charismatic leader, 3.
serious economic problems.  If these things come at the same time, open
revolt could well follow.  The precipitating event could well be
anything, a true variable.  The charismatic leader would have to declare
himself early if already a politician.  If he arises from outside, he
would have to declare at the point of open revolt.  I have to chuckle at
the people who are upset when one of the founding fathers is portrayed as
a real person (good points/bad points) who drank and had mistresses.  I
feel that the more we understand that the founding fathers were just like
us, the more likely we are to think we too can be free of a repressive
government.
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:35:57 EST Bill Richer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

What's ahead for Freedom Lovers?

By Chuck Baldwin

January 2, 2001


I use the term Freedom Lovers intentionally. The word "conservative"
or even
the word "Christian" is far too vague and indefinite. In today's
lexicon,
Bill Clinton is said to personify the term Christian and Colin Powell
is
hailed as a conservative. Yet, both men betray the substance of the
accolades heaped upon them. It's to the point that the terms
conservative or
liberal seem to share more in common than most care to admit.

Liberals will steal one's freedom in the name of welfare or
entitlement
programs, while conservatives will steal one's freedom in the name of
law
enforcement or free trade. The result is the same: Americans continue
to
lose their liberties.

What Nazism and Communism could not do through acts of war and
conquest,
both major political parties in America are doing through acts of
congress,
court rulings and executive orders: putting the shackles of bondage on
the
American people. And the unfathomable part to the story is the fact
that, on
the whole, the America people don't seem to mind.

Of course, there are those who do mind. There are those who yet regard
individual liberty (as described and defined in the Declaration of
Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights) as worth fighting and
dying
for. Their lot may not be large, but it is principled and determined.
What
does a new century hold in store for them?

Sooner or later, lovers of freedom will have to make the same kinds of
choices that yesterday's lovers of freedom had to make. It appears
inevitable. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have the courage
or
fortitude to make the hard political decisions necessary to return
America
to the founding principles of limited government, states rights, and
individual liberty. (It may be questioned how many of them even
understand
those principles?)

Only the rise of a potent and principled third party can avert the
hard
decisions to come. And since this seems remote, it would appear that,
like
our ancestors, Freedom Lovers would have to choose from the following:

We can choose the option made by our Pilgrim Fathers and relocate. Or,
we
can choose the option made by our Revolutionary brothers and separate.
The
only other option is to live in subjugation, which to Freedom Lovers
is not
an option at all. The unknown factor is how many Freedom Lovers will
be left
when it becomes necessary to make the hard choices described above?

A few months ago, a friend of mine (who was recently elected to public
office) gave me a wonderful history book. On the inside cover he
wrote, "To
Chuck, A Patriot and Friend. Sometimes I think you were born 200 years
too
late." Or, at age 48, maybe 50 years too early.



*COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use
without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for nonprofit research and
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Re: [CTRL] Netbusters

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:50:22 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
From: "BB" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  CTRL seems to be inundated with graduates of the
 "How to disrupt a reasonable discussion group and turn it
 into a disgusting mess of squabblers and pig-mouths"
 School of Left-wing Infiltrators.
 Wonder where they all came from??

So anyone who disagrees with your Religious Right view of the world are
forbidden to speak up?    Reasonable discussion means hearing
from all sides of an issue, weighing the merrits of differing opinions,
and reaching your own conclusion as to the facts.

You should be able to tell us, since you seem to be one of the
leaders...
June

I don't think a "...disgusting mess of squabblers and pig-mouths" has a
leader.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: The news media and political protests

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:04:35 -0800 radman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
January 1, 2001 | Protests were effective in the 1960s because the
news media covered them. Today media organizations often ignore protest
demonstrations. When TV news networks do not cover a protest, the
demonstration cannot move public opinion. The various news media
organizations serve as the public's eyes and ears. When the media
fail to report any given event, the public remains blind and deaf
regarding
the story.

No kidding!  Look at the changes in FCC regulations over the last 30
years.  Look at the death of independent broadcasting.  All the media( in
the U.S.) is owned and controlled by a very few people, some of whom are
not even U.S. Citizens.  Except for a few privately owned newspapers, and
even fewer radio stations, all the media in the U.S. is Corporate
owned...as are all the politicians.  TV has the biggest impact on the
people, and is the most tightly held by Corporate America.  Why do you
think the government (by proxy, it is really Corporate America who is
pulling the strings) is so insistant on 'controlling' the internet and
email.  Once the government gets control of the internet and email, all
hope for change is gone.  The attacks are coming from all angles; safety
of our children from porn, safety of our children from meeting strangers,
national security, anti terrorism, general police investigations
necessity.  So far, they have not gained legal control.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Lima Sex Maniacs

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 07:58:32 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

The following came in today from a list which announces the formation
of new email lists.
Is this a 'conspiracy' to undermine the true tenets of the Libertarian
party?
June

Doubtfull that they are that organized.  Probably more an unfamiliarity
with colloquial American idiom.  To me it sounds like an ad for some of
the quirkier Fundamentalist Christian Groups. Polygamy is replaced by
Group activities.  Mothers encouraged to offer up their daughters for the
"teaching" by their leader.  Homeschooling to brainwash the young with
out the confusion of public education.  Creating a New Nation of People
by breeding programs.  Of course they don't want other men to join,
better not have anyone who could be a direct comparison to whoever their
"Leader" is.  I would bet that the only men allowed are thoroughly
screened to insure they do not rival the "Headman" in any way.
 ENGLISH-LANGUAGE SECTION
 Description: We are an association of libertarian husbands and
 libertarian wives who practise group sex, polygamy, consensual
incest, human commensalism, homeschooling.  We should like
 to make up one or more intentional communities of many polyamorous
clans in which we will rear our descendants under the
libertarian/objectivist guidelines and sexual freedom as rational
permissiveness.
 Wanted: Clans, formerly nuclear families, single mothers with
daughters, formerly monogamous conventional  couples, women
(ALL ages up to 40 years, ALL body builds save the obese, ALL races)
living in Lima City, Republic of Lima, South America (Yes!
 We intend to be a sexually liberated new nation).
 In case you do not live in Lima and plan to come here, none of the
 members is compelled to pay your travelling expenses, but we will
find a nice but spartan accommodations with us when you arrive in Lima.

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Re: [CTRL] Shalala won't implement prescription drug law

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 07:15:15 -0600 kl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 WASHINGTON (AP) -- A new law aimed at cutting prescription drug
prices by allowing them to be reimported from Canada won't be
implemented
by Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala.
 In a letter Tuesday to President Clinton, Shalala said the law had
 "serious flaws and loopholes."

Looks like the pharmaceuticals have another big fish in their pocket.

Their pockets are full of fish from both sides of the aisle.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
--9th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

I'm heartened that others remember this often overlooked Amendment.  The
big battles are fought over the !st, 2nd, and fourth amendments that
actually define rights.  Those rights not enumerated in the Constitution
are long gone.  That is the tragedy.  We lost them by default.  This is
the 'death by a thousand cuts' that puts us in the position of having to
fight like hell to retain those actually named.  We get so hung up on the
question "Why shouldn't (this or that) be illegal (legal)?" that we
forget the even more basic question "Why should (this or that) be illegal
(legal)?"  It is the small laws, rules and regulations that bind us in
everyday life that we don't give a thought to.  Rights and freedoms start
in your own home.  If you are not free there, as we are not, then you
have no meaningfull rights or freedoms left.
Jayson

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[CTRL] Crime and Punishment

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:15:05 -0800 mirage [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Philadelphia Daily News and Inquirer
Tuesday December 26 07:45 AM EST
Gun law traps unmeant targets
By Amy Worden,INQUIRER HARRISBURG BUREAU
Federal law prohibits anyone from buying or possessing a weapon who
was convicted of a crime that carried a penalty of more than one year in

prison.

With so many "crimes" now carrying more than a year in jail (as well as
forfieture of property), a legal system that lets prosecutors indict a
rock, draconian manditory sentence laws that insure a plea bargain on a
lesser charge, and a missguided "Lock em all up forever" mentality, who
will be left to own a gun?  Or vote?  Or get a good job? Or get a student
loan?  We have a "crime problem" more due to everything being made
illegal and punishable, than from the effects of real crime.  A 0.8 DUI
law
that, in many states also carries forfieture of your vehicle, costs you
all your rights.  Possession of 1 marijuana cigarette costs you
all your rights.  Hiring a prostitute costs you all your rights.  Playing
poker in your livingroom costs you all your rights.  Any sex other than
vaginal costs you all your rights.  Here in Eugene Oregon dumping a pie
on the head of the Mayor (assault) costs you all your rights.  Think
about it folks.  This is our legal system in action.  It is not only your
right to Keep and Arm Bears that you lose.  It is the right to vote.  It
is the loss of any chance at a good job.  It is getting grants and
scholarships for education.

Several lawmakers say they are exploring legislative remedies.

Yup, putting more gobblety-gook in the books.  The remedy is repeal the
laws, rules and regulations that nullify the freedoms and rights given us
in the Constitution.
Grumpy Ol' Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: The Invisible Hand: Still Scary After All TheseYears]

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:26:17 -0500 flw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Capitalism:  You hire me to build a fence on your property
to a specific specification for a certain compensation. We
sign a contract. I build the fence as directed.  You provide
the compensation as directed.  Where is Government 'depended upon'?
--MJ

Don't make the mistake to equate modern captalism with the Free
Market.
Modern capitalism as practiced throughout the world is State
Capitalism.

State Capitalism can be defined as an unholy alliance between
Corporate Interests and their political servants to use the police power
of the
state to manipulate the Free Market for their own self interest.

A skunk by any other name still smells.  No matter what you call it, what
we have is NOT a free market.  What we have is Corporate America running
the country, and in the proposed George II administration Corporate
America is taking control directly.  "What's good for (was it GM or
Chrysler) is good for America."  thinking is dominate.

 For example, the FDA is a tool of the drug corporations, essentially a
means to
destroy competition and monopolize the prescription drug industry.

A good and timely example.

The very concept of a "corporation" is anti free market. A
"corporation" is an artificial construct which is a creature the State.
It is a legal
fiction. The history of the modern corporation can be traced to special
licenses granted by the King to his favorites. Any state regulated
entity that insulates the owners of that entity from personal liability
(i.e. a "corporation") is by definition anti
Free Market.
flw

I think you are preaching to the choir here.  The trick is how to get Joe
6pack to understand this, and then motivate him to take some action.

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[CTRL] Boy Scouts

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 03:01:51 -0700 MICHAEL SPITZER
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.archaeology.org/curiss/newsbriefs/boyscouts.html
Anti-Gay Policy Sparks Concern of Archaeologists
By ELIZABETH J. HIMELFARB
In October, a subscriber to the historical archaeology internet
discussion list HISTARCH fired off a spam (the "e"-equivalent of
junk mail) to the entire list, lamenting the withdrawal of
funding the Scout stance had engendered, adding, "...the Scouts
have refused to cave in to the pressure of 'politically correct'
groups who despise the fact that the Scouts stand for faith and
morality!"

Recipients of the message seized the opportunity to note the
effect the ban on gays has had on the archaeological community.

A flurry of messages followed, some advocating that
archaeologists withhold support from the Scouts. Others took a
different approach. "As a private organization, it is appropriate
that the Boy Scouts should lose the support of tax dollars,"

This Pro Boy Scout spam also showed up on the archaeology list I am a
denizen of (SUB-ARCH, a specialized list for Underwater Archaeology).  It
met with criticisms because it was out of place on that, or any other
professional list.  Our individual personal feelings on the matter were
beside the point.  The effect of the Boy Scout ban has had NO DISCERNABLE
EFFECT on Archaeology.  It is an internal issue for the Boy Scouts to
deal with.  It is up to those who contribute to the Boy Scouts to
evaluate how the decision to ban gays affects them, and decide for them
selves whether to continue to contribute money.  Personally, I think the
Boy Scouts made a decision that they had every right to make.  They must
also, like everyone else, live with the consequences of that decision.  I
don't think there is much to whine about.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] : Hospitals told to treat patients' pain

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:15:36 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
HEALTHBEAT: Hospitals told to treat patients' pain
By LAURAN NEERGAARD
The Associated Press
12/26/00 12:48 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- When you enter a hospital, you have a right to have
your pain properly treated.
That sounds so common-sense, yet millions of Americans suffer every
day because pain is routinely ignored or undertreated.

Many doctors hesitate to prescribe opioids, which are heavily
regulated because they can be abused by addicts. But for people who have
never
abused drugs and have no history of psychological problems, hardly any
become
dependent on pain medicine, Miaskowski said.

So what's state-of-the-art treatment? For moderate to severe pain from
acute illness or surgery, expect a short-acting opioid like Percocet, or

morphine in a patient-controlled quick-dose pump. For cancer, expect a
long-acting version of morphine or oxycodone, or a fentanyl skin patch.

For chronic pain not due to cancer, new guidelines recommend similar
opioids.

Methadone is an alternative when those drugs fail.

Doctors also are trying antidepressants and antiseizure drugs like
gabapentin for patients with nerve-related pain.

And relaxation and hypnosis help, too -- but shouldn't replace proper
medication, Miaskowski stresses.

I participated in the Governor's Inquiry into Chronic Pain here in
Oregon.  What was made abundantly clear is that there is an effective
alternative to these drugs that has no toxicity threshold, has no
addiction problems, has few unpleasant side effects, and is a naturally
occuring plant that is affordable to everyone.  That led to the passage
of the Medical Marijuana Law.  Why anyone would not try it before trying
these other much more dangerous drugs is directly attributable to the War
on Drugs hype.  So far 9 states have made this step.  Here in Oregon, the
average age of those holding Medical Marijuana cards is 47years old.
The major speakers against the use of marijuana were more concerned that
the patient may "enjoy" the medication.  Many on the panel openly
questioned the validity of this arguement;  that a patient may derive
pleasure from a medication, as well as relief from pain, is no reason to
withold that medication.
Jayson

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[CTRL] voting

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:15:05 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

We want “paper ballot, handcounted” systems under the control of the
citizens themselves in each voting precinct.

After listening to many proposals, I think I have to agree.  The Canadian
system seems to work well.  Paper ballots with big fill-in-the-circle
next to each candidate or issue.  Numerous counting places so that no one
person has to count very many ballots.  Bottom-up reporting.  No exit
polling.  All polling places across the country open and close at the
same time.

And we want ONLY eligible residents to vote – which means that voters
must register 30 days in advance, so that postcards with “address change
requested” can be
mailed out by each county Board of Elections to catch those who do NOT
live
at the addresses they gave, or who have moved or died.

Here in Oregon we have a totally vote by mail system.  This was the first
year of it's implementation in a national election, and there were few
bugs even though the reporting was slow.  I have to say that I like vote
my mail very much, and I think it would solve some of the issues you
bring up.  We have to register in advance, the ballots are mailed out to
an address.  If you procrastinate, or desire, there are polling places to
go to.  The state is a very active initiative state, and there are always
initiatives to look at.  One thing that makes life for the voter easy is
that the state publishes a book (sent to each registered voter) that
gives the wording of the proposition, an interpretation by the government
as to the economic costs (if any) and the effect of the proposition.  Pro
and Con arguements of one page may be paid for by interested parties.
The candidate has a self descriptive page as well as paid for pages by
supporters/detractors.  With vote by mail we can sit at home, read the
information and vote carefully.  I think it is a very good system, but
there are detractors (and I'm sure we will hear from some).

Jim Condit Jr.,
Director, Citizens for a Fair Vote Count

Jayson Jones

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Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: The Invisible Hand: Still Scary After All TheseYears]

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:05:48 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Under fascism, the capitalist class OWNS the government. Under
"communism" the government IS the capitalist class.They're different,
but not much. Either war, working people have no say whatsoever.=20

OK, lets look at ourselves.  Are we fascist or communist?  It is a given
that corporate america owns the politicians, the process, the judiciary,
etc.  Now are they the capitalist class that OWNS the government
(Fascists)? Or, since their nominal employees are the government, and
they control their employees, are they communists?

I think we are making the same misstake that anthropoligists have made
for years.  Marxist theory was used to 'explain' indiginous behavior.
That forced anthropologists to fit the square peg of observed behavior
into the round hole of Marxist theory.  What we have today is not pure
anything.  It is an amalgum of capitalistic greed mixed with what ever
political form is available and electable.  Let's stop arguing about the
proper label and get to the nut of the problem.  Look at George II's
nominations so far.  Big Business (a lot from big oil) nominees dominate
where money is involved (Treasury, Commerce, OMB, National Security).
Attorney General is Ashcroft, and I can safely say that if he does get in
you can kiss a lot of our rights goodbye, all in the interests of "Law
and Order" which protects big business and government from the rest of
us.  Whitman, not very knowledgable on the environment has thankfullness
(for a big job promotion) and controlability going for her.   Vampire
Capitalism has been with us for over 20 years, and is just now being
recognized for what it is.   George II is putting Vampire Capitalism in
control of the government.That sucking sound you will soon hear is
the last of our natural resources being vaccuumed out from under us.
Privatizing Social Security is just another way to suck it dry and not
even leave an I.O.U.

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Re: [CTRL] What Bush Should Do In His First 24 Hours as President

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 00:45:55 -0800 Birds [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 07:59:42 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
OK, how far down the list would we have to go to get to someone
acceptable?
Jayson, with a good supply of ammo.

I see you agree!
Birds
Private Mail Welcome

While I do not advocate anyone shooting these people, I have no objection
to their self removal from the gene pool.  I would be willing to supply
the ammo if they gave me written assurances as to the ultimate end use.

Jayson
Just being helpfull;)

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Re: [CTRL] No suspects? Just DNA test everyone.

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:34:53 - Johannes Schmidt III
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Scores of men living near the scene of a rape attack on a 16-year-old
girl are to be DNA tested, police said today.

This is a good example of how we get stampeded into passing some very
stupid laws.  Take a horrible example (preferably where a child is the
victim) and whip up public sentiment to the point where you can get the
most egregious laws, rules or regulations passed.  MADD has taken a real
problem and whipped everyone up to the frenzy of the 0.8 DUI.  Megan's
Law was passed in the same way, and is so egregious that it is under
attack everywhere.  The rash of school shootings have made possible the
enactment of laws, rules and regulations that would never have been
passed in calm times.

 Look at the article in Scientific American (January, 2001, pg 19, "Pink
Slip in your Genes") and see what can come of mass genetic testing.  In
this case the donors would have to be identified individually.  Do you
think the results, reports, samples etc will be destroyed after the case
is closed?   What should be a boon to mankind is being perverted into a
threat.  Why?  As the article points out, it is the old profit motive.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Peter Dale Scott

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:21:06 EST Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
That is 6:30 PST
or this is a program from alternative radio and will be played on many
npr and other stations world-wide.
This is Dr. Scott's talk in Eugene 6/23/00.
I submitted several and Dr. Scott;s was the one they chose.  I am just
pleased that a message is going out to many from a source that  many
listen to.

Peter's going to be on Alternative Radio tonite @ 6:30 on KLCC.

Kris, I heard you on The Dan Nims Show and wrote it down.  I'll be
listening.  Keep up the good fight.

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] OT - Jason Robards Dies at 78

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:46:00 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Anyway...Mr. Robards was no ditz when it came to his finances.  Turns
out that he had been married a couple of
times, and each of the ex-wives were granted alimony based on his
annual income.  He didn't want to pay it, so
he incorporated himself, with himself as president of Jason Robards,
Inc., and his lawyer as treasurer.  As
president of the corporation, Mr. Robards had unlimited drawing power
on the treasury of Jason Robards, Inc.
As an individual, Mr. Robards had a fairly paltry annual salary.  But
Jason Robards, Inc., DID make a
substantial income via the acting duties of Jason Robards, the
individual, which as a corporate entity was
beyond the reach of the ex-wives.

Yet another example of our 'fine' legal system at work.  This sort of
legal BS really pisses me off.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Drug help request

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 00:45:58 -0500 Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Holy Gawd Jayson!  Thank you!  You get an A+ and ten gold stars in by
book!

A bottle of Irish Whiskey (Tullemore Dew if you please) will do.

 Do you mind if I send this to other people?

No, in fact you can give them my email address if you want.  This is a
subject I have been intimately involved with for over 30 years.  I have
all kinds of research sources that are not connected to either the
government or the NORMAL folks.  Independent research is the only
effective way to fight stupidity.  Then they can't say it is biased.  I
also have the research on Urine Testing.

 And again, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my
request - I didn't know where to begin looking!  There's a sea of
information out there but
you summarized it beautifully!

There is a mass (mess) of information out there indeed.  Much of it is
useless in real debate as it is obviously biased on one side or another.
Some of it, on both sides, is pure B.S.  I only use government sources of
hard data, not their press releases, media spin or "groomed data".  I do
not use obviously biased sources such as Rolling Stone, High TImes or
NORMAL unless I get to the research data behind the story.  The truth is
out there, you just have to go to the sources to figure out what is truth
and what is spin.

Forever grateful!
Kelly

I appreciate that
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Preparing for the Terrorist Threat

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 01:31:12 -0700 MICHAEL SPITZER
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Preparing for the Terrorist Threat
By Jon Basil Utley
Full article at:
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb1075995
Excerpt:

A congressional advisory panel reports that a national strategy
is needed to defend against terrorist attacks, but some plans
would have us give up our civil liberties.

The potential for terrorist attacks inside U.S. borders is a
serious, emerging threat," warns Republican Virginia Gov. James
Gilmore. Gilmore is chairman of a congressionally mandated panel
studying the changing threat to U.S. security and what kind of
responses the nation will have to make.

What's needed, according to Gilmore, is a "truly national
strategy" with the creation of a "National Office to Combat
Terrorism" reporting to the president. Moreover, the national
office would be overseen by a new joint congressional committee.
The implications for the future of American society, the way it
is organized, and the implications for civil liberties are just
now beginning to be examined by a number of groups.

Now why am I not surprised that it is the Republicans leading the charge
to take away more of our rights and freedoms?   They are good at creating
a 'boogyman' and then whipping up public sentiment to demand more of our
rights and freedoms be taken away.  What is it with today's list
offerings?  Almost every one seems to be glaring examples of our
continual loss of rights and freedoms.  Is it just me or are others
seeing an escalation of the attacks on the Constitution "for our own
good"?
Jayson (Too much coffee???)

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[CTRL] Fwd: A signature to remember

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:41:29 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
I am really curious about something--how many believe these events
actually happened?  Could I have a show of hands?  I don't mean that
things
like this happen, pedophiles, child molestation, etc. but that the
events and
people stated here are real and actually took place.  Anybody care to
comment
or state your belief that this DID in fact occur?
Amelia

This IS Conspiracy Theory after all.  I don't know if I totally believe
it or not, but it is as credible as some of the other stuff that crosses
this list.   I can't dismiss it out of hand, but I wouldn't await some
Ken Starr to come along and 'investigate' it either.  I've learned that a
lot of people have some very nasty proclivities, and every once in a
while the wildest sounding allegations are indeed true.   One thing I do
know/believe is that Bush Sr. is a very powerfull man.  He knows where a
lot of skeletons are buried, and that gives him power over other
powerfull people.  Cheney is another, though less powerfull, man who
understands how to cover his ass after the fact.  This is what makes
George II so dangerous: very powerfull people behind the scenes.  In and
of himself, George II is just a "Good Old Boy"; likeable, affable, easy
going.  A front man.  Bush Sr. is an alltogether different story.   I'd
like to see this story thoroughly investigated by a truly independent and
very savvy investigator.  But it never will be.  All the 'investigations
of allegations' will concern George II, and there is plenty of fun stuff
there to keep us busily distracted for years.  "Plausable Denyability"
will continue to protect whatever is lurking in Bush Sr.'s and Cheney's
background as well as what they currently do behind the scenes. The
"October Surprise" has turned into the "Millennium Surprise".
Jayson

- Original Message -

Help: I'm being blocked from sending email to the media source list at
the end of this report. Please copy the list and try forwarding this
report to
these contacts. I suspect ATT personnel are responsible. Kristen
Schlicht,
Internet Abuse Coordinator (904-374-8221) for ATT claims I am sending
spam to
these media sources. This is censorship.

  Did George Bush Procure a Child for His Pedophile Father?

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Re: [CTRL] Panel blames stress for Gulf War ills

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:06:34 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 —  In its long-awaited report, a presidential
panel said the Pentagon did not cover anything up in investigating Gulf
War
 illness and concluded that stress is a likely cause of the vets
ailments.
One of the seven panelists dissented, charging that the board lacked
 independence from the Pentagon office it was overseeing. And the head
of one veterans advocacy group called the conclusion whitewash

Stress!  Of course, why didn't I think of that?  We're all so
relieved. Let's hear it  for the panel!  Prud

If you remember the "Agent Orange" studies and conclusions you would not
be surprised at this.
Jayson

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Media recount

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:28:19 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 Governor Jeb Bush said he wasn't sure what the media review would
 accomplish. "Everyone will have their own conclusion, and I'm not
 sure all this is going to solve anything," he said. 

I'm really surprised at his statement.  I was positive he was pretty
sure about the results.  Isn't that why he pulled all those maneuvers?

Prudy

Yup, old Jeb is sure that it won't matter when the results are made
public.  At this point the line up will be the same no matter who counts
the votes.  Nobody is going to believe anybody else.  The only open
question is:  How long are we the people going to put up with the BS?  If
the economy goes south rapidly, the people may just pull a Boston Tea
Party and oust George II.  Not the Bore would be any better.   If a
revolt does happen, I would hope that a THOROUGH house cleaning takes
place.
Jayson

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] JW: BUSH EMBRACES HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:52:45 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
And that's just it--legal harassment.  The Republican Party and their
good buddies have turned our legal system into trained attack dogs.
This goes all the way from Judicial Watch to the US Supreme Court.
The dignity and honor that were once a part of the business of law
and our courts are as dead as the justice they once served.  Prudy

Prudy, it isn't just the republicans who have done this to us.  This
started a long time ago.  It is getting more flagerant lately, and
particularly the last decision on the Florida Election.  Justice Stevens
had it right.  The more people see what is happening the more disgusted
they get.  No wonder some flee the country, some arm themselves, some try
to raise the awareness of others, and some just shrug and hope it doesn't
hurt them personally.   The sad commentary is that as long as the economy
is chugging along nothing will happen to rock the boat.  Rest assured, at
some point the people will revolt.  I just wonder what the precipitating
event will be.
Jayson

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[CTRL] Need Safety Net for Poor

[Jayson R. Jones]

d at the
least offer a shoulder when that is all there is.
In a country as rich as this one, with the GDP we have, with the
amount we pay in taxes, THERE SHOULD NOT BE ONE PERSON WITHOUT A PLACE TO
LIVE, WITHOUT ENOUGH FOOD, WITHOUT GOOD MEDICAL CARE  Many of the
poor do have jobs.  Minimum wage jobs.  Many of the poor are over 40
years old.  Many once had good jobs.  The working poor, many working 2 or
3 jobs such as yourself, are particularly bitter.  In the past 20 years
the average blue collar pay has went up about 60% while the average
executive pay has went up between 360% and 1400% depending on whose
figures you use and who is considered an executive.  In those same 20
years the percentage of jobs that are minimum wage has grown steadily.
I do not begrudge the taxes I pay.  What I do get irate about is
how that money is used and the comparison between what I make and pay in
taxes and what the top 1% make and pay in taxes.  We are told that the
top 1% pay more than we do on a percentage basis.  That is a flat out
lie.  Yes, they pay a higher percentage on their "Taxable Income" but
that is only a small fraction of what they really earn.  Then there are
the corporations who pay next to nothing, or even get rebated money from
the government.
Look at the major contributers to political campaigns.   Who are
they?  Are they the same people who seem to benefit/profit from the
government regulations?  Now does it seem in any way reasonable that the
beneficiaries of government should be those who are able to finance the
candidates?   Who just got picked as head of the Commerce Commission?  A
top businessman.  Is that putting the fox in charge of security at the
hen house, the wolf as protector of the sheep?
I would ask you to think about who is the real problem, the poor
or the rich? Who is causing you more grief and aggrevation?  Who is
making life harder for you?  Who has more control over every aspect of
your life?  When you answer those questions you will have a direction for
your anger.  It is easy to blame the poor, they can not directly affect
you, they have no power.   In subtle ways we are taught that to be poor
means you are a loser, a drain on society.  We are told that the poor are
a drain on our economy.  The reality is that most of the money spent on
the poor is spent on ADMINISTRATION!  In other words, it goes into the
pockets of well paid executives who administer the programs.  Very little
trickles down to the poor themselves.
Direct your anger where it belongs.  The rich run this country
through their paid-for representatives in government.  Is it any wonder
that the number of poor are growing?  Is it any wonder that the working
poor are so hard pressed to make ends meet?  Where are the benefits of
our booming economy going?  Who will be harmed when the economy turns
downward?  Who will be left holding the bag when layoffs come?  Why?
Jayson R. Jones

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Re: [CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Re: [CTRL] Fwd: 'pres'-elect bush: Takeover would BE EASIER IFIWEREDICTATOR! EXACT QUOTE!

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:27:51 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
I have not heard the same level of malice returned to
Liberals/Democrats either


That's incredible. Are you reading the same list!?!  Has anyone  else
here missed out on the constant stream of (oft deserved) venom that
pours from the right? This list fairly drips with it.

Missed it?  Hell I have been the target of some of it.  But you forget,
when it comes from the left it is malicious, when it comes from the righ
it is truth (just ask Rush).

Personally, I don't like either of them. They're both liars,
they're both thieves and they're both bullies.  Nothing would make me
happier than if the left got out of my wallet and the right got out of
my bedroom. But don't hold your breath.

Same here.  I'll bet most of the list also agrees.  How about it lurkers?
Jayson

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [narconews] News on Albany co. that refuses to close Narco News

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Keep up the good work Kris.  The government is under so much attack from
so many angles that something has to break soon.  You know this issue is
one of my pet GO buttons.  I'm sending it around my own network of
activists.


On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:28:28 EST Kris Millegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Narco News salutes our Internet Service Provider,
Voxel.net, for standing tall in the face of threats
against it, and for recognizing Narco News as "a
public service."

Here is the local angle by reporter Larry Goodwin
of Metroland...

And what After Tuesday's VOICE article, Akin Gump's
McLish is suddenly "not authorized" to speak to the
press? A self-inflicted gag order? More to come...

Other Mexican papers have reported how Hernández hosted a private
reception at his ranch this year that was attended by newly elected
Mexican
President Vincente Fox, U.S. ambassador to Mexico Jeffrey Davidow and
President
Bill Clinton.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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[CTRL] frosting

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

JAYSON,=20
   Here's a lil sumpin't frost your cookies:
CDT POLICY POST Volume 6, Number 22, December 18,=20
2000

A BRIEFING ON PUBLIC POLICY ISSUES AFFECTING CIVIL=20
LIBERTIES ONLINE
from
THE CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY

CONTENTS:
(1) CONGRESS PASSES FILTERING MANDATES FOR SCHOOLS=20
AND LIBRARIES
(2) LAW WILL REQUIRE SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES TO BLOCK=20
BROAD CLASSES OF CONTENT
(3) MANDATES RAISE CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS AND POLICY=20
OBJECTIONS

--

(1) CONGRESS PASSES FILTERING MANDATES FOR SCHOOLS=20
AND LIBRARIES

The U.S. Congress has approved language requiring schools and=20
libraries that receive federal technology funding to block=20
objectionable material on the Internet by installing and using filtering
=

software. The "Children's Internet Protection Act" (CIPA) was passed=20
by both the House and Senate on December 15 as part of the=20
massive budget bill funding the government for next year, and is now=20
all but certain to become law.

CIPA imposes a one-size-fits-all filtering approach on thousands of=20
schools and libraries, ending the ability of local communities to=20
choose which Internet safety measures best meet their needs and=20
values. Potential overblocking by imperfect filters also raises
serious=20
free speech concerns that make it certain to be challenged in the=20
courts. CDT expects to join efforts to challenge to the bill.

Internet filtering has been a contentious issue throughout most of=20
this Congress, gathering opposition from a range of businesses,=20
library and school groups, and conservative and liberal public
interest=20
groups. CIPA was added as a "rider" amendment to HR 4577, the=20
end-of-year spending package, by Senator John McCain (R-AZ) and=20
Representative Ernest Istook (R-OK), longtime proponents of filtering.=20
Although the White House opposed the amendment, the President=20
will almost certainly sign the budget bill it is now a part of. CIPA =
will=20
go into effect 120 days after enactment, and at that point will begin to
=

impact school and library funding applications for the following year.

A copy of the language passed by Congress can be found at:
   - http://www.cdt.org/legislation/106th/speech/001218cipa.pdf

--

(2) LAW WILL REQUIRE SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES TO BLOCK=20
BROAD CLASSES OF CONTENT

The "Children's Internet Protection Act" requires that schools and=20
libraries install and use Internet filtering software to block a wide=20
range of online content. Failure or refusal to do so would cause a=20
school or library to lose important federal funds.

The bill is actually four mandates in one, each linked to a different=20
funding source but all with the same effect. The funding sources at=20
issue are:

* School technology funds under the Elementary and Secondary=20
Education Act
* Library technology funds under the Museum and Library Services=20
Act
* "E-rate" service discounts for schools
* "E-rate" service discounts for libraries

These far-reaching federal programs distribute billions of dollars in=20
assistance to schools and libraries that otherwise might not provide=20
Internet access at all. As a result, many schools and libraries whose=20
Internet policies differ from CIPA's language will be forced to
comply,=20
or lose Internet access altogether.

To keep their funding, schools and libraries must install and use a=20
"technology protection measure" (defined in the bill as a "technology=20
that blocks or filters Internet access" to covered material) to
control=20
access to material that is obscene, child pornography, and, in the=20
case of minors, material "harmful to minors." CIPA defines a minor=20
as anyone 16 years of age or younger.

CIPA's "harmful to minors" standard only applies to visual depictions=20
of inappropriate content, and apparently not to text-based material of=20
any kind, though CIPA does not proscribe efforts to filter additional=20
material, and most filters block more than just pictures.

Adults using library or school computers may ask to have filtering=20
deactivated during their session only if they can demonstrate "bona=20
fide research or other lawful purposes." Minors may or may not be=20
able to have filtering deactivated, depending on the funding source=20
involved.

Under U.S. law, distribution of child pornography or obscene material=20
is already illegal. CIPA reaches a far broader category of "harmful to=20
minors" material. The bill defines "harmful to minors" as:

"any picture, image, graphic image file, or other visual depiction =
that--
  "(A) taken as a whole and with respect to minors, appeals to a=20
prurient interest in nudity, sex, or excretion;
  "(B) depicts, describes, or represents, in a patently offensive way=20
with respect to what is suitable for minors, an actual or simulated=20
sexual act or sexual contact, actual or 

Re: [CTRL] President Bill Clinton Advocates End of Farming in U.S.

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:50:10 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

The agricultural system in this country is the best in the world.

WAS the best in the world, and that depends on the meaning of "Best".

With a tiny persentage of the population acting as farmers, we have not
only
fed ourselves but much of the world.

Yup, and the percentage of farmers is dwindling every day.  This is not
progress.  Most of the farmland is now Corporate.  The family farm is all
but gone.  Since the 50's the farmers have been caught in an upward
spiral of debt, overproduction, over stressing the land,
overfertilization, chemical dependancy of the worst sort, and pricing at
the whims of the government.

Food can only be grown "cheaper" elsewhere
using slave labor and with no EPA nor other health standards.

I wouldn't exactly call it slave labor.  They are using the same
production techniques that built this country.

This is one of the most frightening of the plans of the liberal
Democrats.

I think you are worried more about not being the top of the economic food
chain.

If you think an oil shortage is bad, wait until it is your food!

Both should teach us a very valuable lesson.  SUSTAINABILITY is the only
security.
We have the technology and knowledge to continue to feed ourselves.
However, the prices that would be required would be substantially higher
than they are now.  If we import much of our food to keep the prices
down, we become DEPENDANT on others. I would suggest that it may be
better to bite the bullet now, get ourselves on a SUSTAINABLE footing,
and stop antagonizing the rest of the world.
Amelia
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: 'pres'-elect bush: Takeover would BE EASIER IFIWEREDICTATOR! EXACT QUOTE!

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:03:45 -0800 Vera Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
What a joke!!! Get a sense of humor! Do we have to turn EVERYTHING
into a conspiracy?

No, I agree with you that not everything is a conspiracy.  Sometimes it
is just stupidity.

 Let W. make dumb jokes and start seeing him as he
is;

Yup, he sure is dumb.

not some sinister Nazi, but a good guy who uses humor to help
everyone ease up.

I see nothing even remotely funny about his 'election'.  He may, at
heart, be just a "Good Old Boy" but then so is Clinton.  But a GOB with
the power of a president of the U.S. is still very dangerous; even if he
later says "I was only kidding."

 Are we going to spend the next four years accusing
him of the same things as Clinton? And Bush Sr? And Reagan? And
Carter? And .?

Of course.  Fair is fair.  The right continually attacked Clinton on
personal foibles, so do you really expect that George II will not be torn
apart piece by piece.  Just on my pet peeve alone he is subject to
acusations of hipocracy.  Clinton smoked but did not inhale (Nudge,
Wink), Bore smoked (back in college), and George II smoked, snorted,
drank and then "found god".  Yet all are in favor of ramping up the Drug
War.  What a bunch of BS.  I'm sure there are plenty of bimbo's, old
friends, and the like who already have books written and are just waiting
for the right deal to come forward.  Not only did the right shoot itself
in both feet and the groin while trying to impeach Clinton, but they set
the stage for the future.  Bush's past will now be public knowledge, and
he is not as good at ducking and Reagan or Clinton.  A sitting duck is
replacing a lame duck.

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Re: [CTRL] Secret plan for EU 'Superstate'

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:15:05 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
From: "Lloyd Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Secret plan for EU 'Superstate'
Date: Saturday, December 16, 2000 7:28 AM
Secret plan for EU 'Superstate'
Dec 6 2000
Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,47203,00.html

While it should be abundently clear by now that I am in favor of
DECENTRALIZATION of power, I can see why Europe would want to centralize
economic power.   Centralization of economic power is the only effective
way to fight the 600 lb. gorilla that currently domonates the world.  By
combining economic forces, Europe would have a combined GDP that
surpasses the U.S., while still maintaining a social system that provides
a REAL safety net for the poor.  The U.S. has yet to wake up to the fact
that they have to play nice now.  The U.S. can no longer count on their
economic and military power to get what they want.  If Canada and Mexico
get tired of the shafting they get in trade agreements with the U.S. they
may go elsewhere, further freezing out the U.S.   I do believe that
Kharma has finally caught up with the U.S., and it is time to reassess
their place in the world.
The other real threat to U.S. economic dominance on the world is China.
China has geared up to make rapid economic growth over the next 20 years
(and this planning ahead is what the U.S. has forgotten in the quest for
the bottom line growth RIGHT NOW) and will be a major economic player
soon.  China already has a large military, so combined with a large GDP,
China will be a major power player in the future.  If China is able to
set aside old hatreds with their neighbors in the Pacific Rim, they may
yet form an economic block that is truly formidable.  All this, of course
is putting politics aside and talking economics only.  That is why the
political maneuvering is so important.  Hence the big push by the right
in the U.S. to cast China as the main villain, the current boogyman, the
great menace.  China has adopted capitalism and has the resources to grow
mightily.  That is the real threat the U.S. perceives, and rightly so.

So here we have the 600lb gorilla about to face both an economically
coheasive EU, and China who is on economic steroids and growing fast.
The gorilla has not played nice with Canada or Mexico, and is alienating
most of Central and South America with its policies of interference.  Is
it any wonder that the U.S. is getting mighty nervous?  If the EU and the
Pacific Rim (with China as a partner) decide to make blanket trade
agreements instead of separate trade agreements country by country,  the
U.S. will be in a very poor position.  If foreign investors start pulling
out of the U.S. the sucking sound will be the effective death rattle of
the 600lb gorilla.

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[CTRL] Arming America has the facts all wrong

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Not only does he have the facts wrong, but he has the intent wrong also.
After just using guns to secure freedom, does it make any sense that the
newly freed patriots would then turn around and want the very citizens
that fough for freedom unarmed? Not likely.  THe founding fathers knew
full well that an armed citizenry was the only guarantee of freedom from
a despotic government.  Most gun owners are not members of a
"gun-culture".  They own guns for a variety of reasons, but do not spend
much time thinking about them except at hunting time.  The rise in gun
violence, if at all true, would be better laid at the steps of the
government Drug War than the general population.  Much of the mass gun
violence is perpetrated by armed thugs fighting over the more lucrative
drug sales areas.   Why is it that the highest rates of gun involved
crimes (not just possession of a gun, but where a gun was used in the
commission of a crime) occur in places with the most stringent anti gun
laws?  Why is it that everywnere carry permits have been issued more
freely, crime in general has dropped?  I am not of the "gun culture", yet
I own several guns.  They will have to come to my house and pry them from
my dead hand before I will ever willingly give them up.  They are my last
defence against all sorts of threats, plus they put meat on the table in
tough times.  The Constitution states that freedom is the way of life in
America; an armed citizenry insures it.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Anarchists

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

It would seem that we are at an impass.  Regardless of the label, one
mindset believes that man, left to his own devices, would act in a
selfish, greedy, and erratic way.  The other mindset believes that man,
left to his own devices, would act in a cooperative way with those around
him.

I would have to say that history, particularly before Gettenburg, shows
that man is generally self regulating.  The view that man, not knowing
the christian god, is not capable of organized society, fairness and
freedom, or self control.  The facts do not support this.  Vast areas of
the world did not know the christian god, but managed to attain high
levels of sophistication in both technology and culture.  The often
overlooked falacy in Western Civilization teaching is that "Different
does not mean Lower".  What the christian european conqurers found in the
Americas did not match their concept of "right", so it was "wrong".  Take
a look as the Iriquios League, the Cherokee Culture, the Southwestern
Cultures, The Northwest Coast Cultures to name a few.  These were highly
organized mutually cooperative cultures that functioned without the
'benefit' of a single belief system.  I am purposly omitting the more
aggressive cultures that also flourished, even tho none of these came
close to matching the agressiveness of their christian european
conqurers.

I maintain that 99.8% of man can get along just fine without any formal
religion or governance.  They are also quite able to handle the 0.2% who
do not have the requisite skills to get along.  Over 100,000 years of the
history of man shows this to be true.  This history also shows that the
few instances of mass violence have been the result of a strong religion
or a strong central governance taking control.

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Babies on mood drugs

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

I'm surprised that this comes out of Canada.  What do they have to be
depressed about?   Their country is respected world wide.  Their country
held an election and accurately reported the results in less than 24
hours.  True, they do get a continual screwing at the NAFTA table.  True,
they are suffering an influx of refugees from the U.S.  I just find it
amusing that more and more people are perscribed mood altering drugs,
while at the same time more and more people are being jailed for taking
mood altering drugs.  Could it be that the perscribed mood altering drugs
are better at making the user conform, while the 'illegal' mood altering
drugs make people feel more independent?  I think the dangerous drugs may
well be those perscribed rather than those made illegal.  I eagerly (but
fearfully) await the Supreme's newest release on the medical marijuana
issue.  Could it be that they are OK with kids on prozac or ritalin, but
not adults on marijuana?
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Broward County's War On the Boyscouts.

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

The opening paragraph sure sets the tone for this rant.   In a funny
juxtaposition, I just heard on the radio that 2/3 of teen boys admit to
sex other than intercourse.  Let's get a couple things straight.
FIrst, I don't care what the Boy or Girl Scouts do.  It is a free
country.  However, if they take a stance, they should be open to the
consequences of that stance.  They came out and stated that personal
sexual preferences would play a part in whom to let into the groups.  OK,
I'll buy that.  What I really have no tolerance for is the whining they
are doing over the consequences of that decision.  Most people, who
appreciate the good work the scouts do,  can not in good conscience lend
their financial support to any organization that discriminates against
anyone based on race, color, creed, national origin or sexual preference.
 The United Way is correct in withholding funding for the scouts because
of their stance.  If the United Way, or any other agency did not, they
would lose a lot of money that would do good work.  I will not contribute
my money to any organization that actively discriminates.
On the related issue of sex education in public schools, the news
of the "other than intercourse" sexual practices of teen boys indicates a
lack of knowledge about how STD's are transmitted.  Far from "teaching
homosexuality", sex education MUST tell kids that STD's (AIDS being the
most dangerous) can be transmitted by any exchange of bodily fluids.  We
must tell them how to protect themselves.  "Just Say No" didn't work for
anti-drug education and it won't work for sex either.   Tell the kids the
truth, and they will at least be able to make an informed decision.  Lie
to them and they will make decisions out of ignorance; and they will lose
any respect for those lying to them when they find out the truth.  Put
your petty prejudices aside for once and think about the kids and what
your fanaticism is doing to them.
Jayson
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:18:57 EST Bill Richer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War!

Broward County's War On the Boyscouts.


What is prompting the sustained homosexual attack on the Boy scouts,
and now
girl scouts of America? Why do the radical queers find it so necessary
to
infiltrate organizations founded on Godly principles?

I think I know why. They are casting a net for America’s youth. They
are like
a lion on the edge of the tall grass seeking the young antelope. They
have
for years, like the lion moved in for the kill ever so slowly, and
then when
the time is right, as the lion makes it’s move at maximum speed, the
queers
have also stepped out from among the tall grass and are racing toward
America’s youth to pounce on the future. The lion must eat to live
another
day. The queer must evangelize lest his way of life wither as a dying
flower.

 Hoolyard


South Florida's War on the Boy Scouts

"The presidential recount isn't the only voting controversy in Broward
County, Fla.  On November 16, the Broward County school board voted
unanimously to ban the Boy Scouts from its schools and buses because
the
organization bars homosexual leaders.   The school board's 9-0 ruling
comes
six weeks after the United Way of Broward County announced that,
beginning
in 2002, the South Florida Boy Scouts will no longer be eligible for
program
grants because the group discriminates against homosexuals."

- Washington Times Weekly, 12/3/00


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Re: [CTRL] FR: SNEAK ATTACK ON THE BILL OF RIGHTS

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 04:26:44 -0700 MICHAEL SPITZER
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
TO YET ANOTHER SNEAK ATTACK ON THE BILL OF RIGHTS
http://www.constitution.org/
Author: Dave Kopel

End-of-Session Robbery Congress limits civil liberties before
going home for the holidays.
By Dave Kopel
The Independence Institute

This is the most common and egregious ways for our elected officials to
strip away our rights and freedoms.  The whole "Rider" tactic should be
illegal in the first place.  It is legal blackmail: "Vote for the main
part of this bill and swallow the rider or else."  So many things have
been passed into law that would never have passed as stand alone
legislation.  The title of any bill should reflect the content.  Why do
we allow this to continue to happen?  And they want to take our guns
away?  Little wonder.  They are scared that one day we will wake up and
revolt.  This really pisses me off to no end.
Jayson

Congress may adjourn today — but not before inflicting a series
of blows on civil liberties and federalism. As is usual for
end-of-the-session assaults on civil liberties, the plan is to
speed the new laws through as attachments to some innocuous law,
before most people in Congress have time to notice.

The only real chance for stopping this plan lies in House and
Senate leadership (especially the House) being flooded with phone
calls objecting to yet another sneak attack on the Bill of
Rights.

At issue is H.R. 46, a seemingly harmless bill titled "Public
Safety Medal of Valor." The bill sets up a federal board to award
federal Medals of Valor to policemen, federal agents, and the
like. But Congress, unlike many state legislatures, does not
operate under a constitutional requirement that a bill's subject
matter and title be the same. And it turns out that there's much
more in this bill than just medals for firefighters. What the
bill does is:

Expand federal asset forfeiture.

Expand wiretapping Provide special additional punishments for
people who use encryption. Federalize juvenile crimes, which are
properly matters for state governments to address.

The House committee report on the bill, of course, only discusses
medals for police officers — and not any of the unrelated
material which is being added in the closing hours of Congress.
The unrelated, dangerous, material comes mostly from the
never-passed H.R. 2448.

These new provisions were added to H.R. 46 on October 24, 2000,
by the Senate. (See Congressional Record page 10913).

Forfeiture

Section 304 of the "Medal of Valor" bill provides for "Criminal
and Civil Forfeiture for Computer Fraud and Abuse." Although
federal forfeiture laws have been partially reformed, they are
still massively weighted in favor of the government, and allow
the government to seize property from people who have never been
convicted of a crime.

H.R. 46 would expand federal forfeiture law to include various
computer crimes, and allow the forfeiture of any personal
property used "to commit or to facilitate the commission of such
violation." So the federal government could seize every computer
you own, before you have even been charged — let alone convicted
— of a computer crime.

Wiretapping

Section 308 of the bill provides federal wiretapping authority
over people suspected of committing various computer crimes —
allowing the interception of "wire, oral, and electronic
communications relating to computer fraud and abuse." So if the
federal government asks for a warrant (and wiretap warrants are
almost never denied), not only could federal agents read your
e-mail (an "electronic communication"), they could also put
listening devices in every room in your house.

If a teenager were suspected of computer hacking (even hacking
which caused no real damage, but which allegedly posed "a threat
to public health"), then H.R. 46 would allow the government to
wiretaps the parents' telephone. The average telephone wiretap
results in the interception of 1,971 conversations, according to
the Wiretap Report for 1999 (Published by the administrative
office of the United States Courts).

Current federal wiretap authority stems from the Wiretap Act of
1968. President Lyndon B. Johnson was very concerned about the
dangers of wiretapping--perhaps because he personally had ordered
some abusive wiretaps; so the president opposed proposals to
create federal wiretap power.

Eventually, he accepted the Wiretap Act as part of a larger
compromise to allow passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. Part
of the compromise was that wiretap powers would be invoked only
for certain enumerated and particularly dangerous offenses. These
were crimes involving espionage, treason, violence, or organized
crime.

Unfortunately, in the following three decades, the number of
suspected offenses for which wiretapping is allowed has
quadrupled, to over 100. Among these offenses are making false
statements on student-loan applications or passport applications.
18 U.S.C. sec. 

Re: [CTRL] PROTEST AT THE INAUGURATION

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:44:42 -0800 Cliff Hume [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 It is real simple.

 1=Create a problem.

 2=Trump it up to the point of instilling fear of it in the minds
of the people.

 3=Offer a solution that would bring about change that would have
been unacceptable to the people without the fear created in their
minds by the trumped up problem.

THAT is a perfect description of how we got into the War On Drugs and all
the loss of freedoms that flowed from that.  I congratulate you on
putting it in so few words.  From the appointment in 1932 of former
Assistant Prohibition Commissioner Harry J. Anslinger as Commissioner of
Narcotics in the newly formed Federal Bureau of Narcotics to the outgoing
Drug Czar General Barry McCaffery, the whole plan of action has followed
the above precepts.  However, there is good evidence that more and more
people have had enough of this crap and see it for what it is.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Anarchists

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:39:12 -0800 Cliff Hume [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
At 06:10 AM 12/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
The problem is that Anarchists believe in self-rule, which man has
proven, over and over again, unattainable.

This is quite simply untrue. You really need to read more
anthropology.

Quite true.  If you study anthropology you find that most aboriginal
people functioned quite well with self rule in spite of not having any
monotheistic diety.  That is untill the Christian Europeans invaded.  We
all know what happened then.

I guess that, if I am to believe you and take the bible as a whole and
follow its teachings that I could have stoned to death my ex for
cheating, sold my children into slavery and condemed all who touch pig
products to exile or death.  Get real.  I have no quarell with your
belief in christianity.  To me it is the same as believing in Sant Claus,
the Easter Bunny, or the boogyman.  Believe what you want and don't let
facts stand in the way, but leave the rest of us alone.  The only use I
have for the bible is as a collection of folktales that help guide us to
ancient sites where we can dig up the facts.  So you have read the bible,
have you read anything else?  The recently released Dead Sea Scrolls from
which some of the bible is supposedly taken?  How about any readings in
anthropology, archaeology or even Evolutionary Theory?  Pretty hard to
reconcile scientific proofs with the folktales in the bible isn't it?
Oh,  I'm sure you have answers, but are they from peer reviewed sources
or are they just the wild eyed ramblings of the 'faithfull'?  Like you
say of Clinton "...lied so much that I can't believe a word said" that is
how I feel about christian dogma.  History is repleat with the acts of
christianity, and no matter what is said, the acts speak for themselves.
Jayson

Jayson
archaeology or even Evolutionary Theory?  Pretty hard to reconcile
scientific proofs with the folktales in the bible isn't it?  Oh,  I'm
sure you have answers, but are they from peer reviewed sources or are
they just the wild eyed ramblings of the 'faithfull'?  Like you say of
Clinton "...lied so much that I can't believe a word said" that is how I
feel about christian dogma.  History is
rep£ „OÄ«é“ r´Àq5 F „/ԏ!¸Ñ ÍÕèÿÿ¼D è ºÞŽ  ¯ ?Z
líhô3€:*~n™óó ¬ó ö š[™´ãé  3Z ¹From fuzzy22
From: fuzzy22
Fcc: Sent
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Status: Unread
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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Re: [CTRL] Anarchists

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:39:12 -0800 Cliff Hume [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
At 06:10 AM 12/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
The problem is that Anarchists believe in self-rule, which man has
proven, over and over again,
unattainabl  From
fuzzy22
From: fuzzy22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fcc: Sent
Subject: Urine Testing
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Status: Unsent
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49

I read this article with great interest.  While a case may be
made for drug testing pilots, and certain others in the transportation
industry, two things should be pointed out.  First, marijuana metabolites
are detectable in the body for up to 8 weeks after use, long after any
effects have worn off and long after much more dangerous drugs are
undetectable (1 -7 days).  This encourages the use of harder drugs
because they are less detectable.  Second, eating some commercially
available health foods can cause a positive result for marijuana.  I
refer you to the "Journal of Analytical Toxicology", vol 21, July/August
1997.  Once a positive test result is obtained, it is impossible to
remove the "taint".
I am not adverse to drug testing where absolutely necessary, but
I do question why 75% of blue collar jobs advertised require a drug
screening before employment, and often random testing thereafter, while
very few management or executive jobs have that requirement even at the
same company.   Elected officials at all levels are excluded from drug
testing.  Most public school teachers, at least in Oregon, are also not
tested.  Why is it considered a necessity to test my Burger Flipper, but
not my elected representatives?  Why is it that there is a push to test
my children but not their teachers?
Like Prohibition, the time has come to end this madness.  The
Drug War is costing us billions every year, yet any 12 year old can show
you where to buy drugs.  Over 50% of our prison population are nonviolent
drug offenders, many incarcerated for simple possession of drugs.  Nine
of our states have legalized the use of marijuana for medical purposes,
but these legal users are barred from employment by "Zero Tolerance" drug
testing programs that the federal government has encouraged in private
industry.  It is time to stop the madness aimed at the poorest segments
of our society, the minimum wage and blue collar workers.

Jayson R. Jones
P.O. Box 67
Swisshome, OR, 97480
(541)268-9986
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[CTRL] SNET: GOD OVERRULES SUPREME COURT VERDICT]

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:52:41 -0700 BB [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

I wonder what God thinks about the stalwart who presumed to
write in HIS behalf.

When I channeled him last night he said it was funny 8-)

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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Re: [CTRL] Commiserations

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Mostly, the people have bought into the propaganda put out by the two
ruling parties: "A vote for a third party is a wasted vote."  I find it
remarkably funny that when I talk to people on a one to one basis, they
agree more with Libertarians than with either of the Republicrats.
However, when I suggest that what they actually want will not come about
unless they actually vote for the man who espouses their ideals, they
parrot the line "But I don't want to throw away my vote."  Very
frustrating.  It seems that, to many
Americans, voting is like betting; they want to bet on who they think
will win, not who they want to win.  To me, if you don't vote you have no
right to bitch about how things are going.
Jayson

On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:33:27 EST Bob Stokes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/14/00 7:59:33 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 If we want to send a protest message to the big two in
 power, we vote for an independent or someone the partys in power like
to attack. 

Unfortunately here in the US most people are too busy voting against
the person they consider the "bad guy" rather than making their vote
count
by showing their disapproval of the ruling party and voting for one of
the "third" parties.  Either that, or they are just too afraid of
liberty
because they have been sucking the tit of government handouts so long
they
think they can't make a living by themselves.  I belong to the majority,
the 50%
that didn't vote for Bush or Gore.
Regards,
Bob Stokes

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Re: [CTRL] Will of the People?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:11:34 -0500 "M.A. Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Will of the People?
by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
The state needs to invent an endless series of
myths about its powers and importance in order to
exist, and there is no bigger myth than the notion
that democratic governments are mere expressions
of "the will of the people." No matter how heinous
the deeds performed by democratic governments,
no matter how much property they steal or people
they kill at home and abroad, the basic institutions
of the state are almost never challenged because
they supposedly enjoy the support of "the will of
the people."

The will of the people was last best expressed in 1776.  You are correct
about the rest of the 224 years since then.

This means that what little the average, rationally
ignorant citizen does know about government tends to
be mostly lies and statist propaganda.

We only recognize what affects us directly.  We have been placed in water
and the heat has bee turned up incrementally.  Most do not realize that
the precious Constitution no longer applies.  As long as the people, in
general are fat, dumb and happy, they don't care.

 What all of this means is that government at all levels devotes
enormous energy and resources to manufacturing the
will of the people, not merely responding to it.
Government has become the master, not the servant, of
the people, even under democracy. Unless we want to
live our lives as serfs, working for half the year or
longer to feed the voracious appetites of the tax
collectors, the powers of the state need to be scaled
back as much as is humanly possible.

There is only one way to accomplish this: take the lesson the founding
fathers taught us and repeat it till we get it right.  They, too, found
themselves living under a represive government which overtaxed them, was
not in any way responsive to their needs or wishes, and used armed men to
enforce the dictates handed down from on high.   It may be happenstance
that our new "leader" is George II, or it may be a"sign".

 The free market is the only institution about which it can be said
that the will of the people is satisfied.

That depends on what you mean by a "free market".  A very big part of our
problems stem from the power of Big Corporations and the wealthy 1%.  If
you mean that corporations and wealthy people should have free reign, I
would agree only if all of the power is vested in the people, with state
and federal governments having only very limited power in very narrow
areas.  I would much prefer doing away with capitalism entirely, and
replacing it with a better way.  However, that is entirely too long a
dialogue to go into, and is mostly beside the point in this discussion.
Suffice it to say that we have the knowledge, technology and resources to
provide a good life for everyone IF we share things fairly.
Jayson R. Jones

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Re: [CTRL] For those who believe the Constitution is a living document

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:44:23 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

The parasitic segment of the population will always be loyal to the
government, reinforcing its power.

Absolutely true. The rich love government. Its troops keep us from
lynching them and taking back the fruits of our labor which they have
stolen from us under color of law.

Let me second that opinion.  Look at the Body of Law in this country, it
is designed to protect the wealthy and powerfull from the people.   It is
not surprising that we are continually fed the mantra "We are a Nation of
Laws, not of Men".  What utter hogwash.  If anyone believes that the
'people' make the laws (with the exception of initiatives), then they are
seriously delusional.
Jayson

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[CTRL] No Victory for Bush; Not a Just and Fair Verdict

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:28:39 -0700 MICHAEL SPITZER
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

http://www.mrc.org/news/cyberalert/2000/cyb20001213.asp

Media Research Center CyberAlert
Wednesday December 13, 2000 (Vol. Five; No. 266)

If you remember the election night SNAFU, this would not surprise anyone.
 I don't listen to any of these idiots more than absolutely necessary.
However, I WAS pleased to hear the references to Stevens' Dissent.  He
had it right.  The loser is the American people (and their trust in any
arm of government, not just the Judges).  The best description I heard
was sort of in these words: "The Supreme Court, while not killing Gore
themselves, gave him a handgrenade with the pin pulled and told him to
find a solution to the puzzle before it blew up."
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] California Blackouts--What's Going On?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:11:08 EST William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

12/12/00: California Blackouts--What's Going On? A
HREF=3D"http://www.whitl=
eysworld.com/news121200bp.html"text version/A

Just this past summer our local utility company (EPUD) was gleefully
telling the public (who nominally owns it) of the windfall profits they
are making by selling electricity to San Diego at many times the previous
rate.  They told us that they now had the 'extra money' to complete
several planned projects.  Only a few of us mentioned that it may not be
in our best interests to gouge California in their time of need, and that
a more equitable pricing would be more moral and fair.  This was hooted
at by EPUD and most citizens.  I hope the situation is never reversed and
it is this area that needs help.  Gouging us would be a fair turnaround.

Jayson
Oregon

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[CTRL] Constitutional Convention

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

~M,
I hope you do research "Constitutional Convention" and report
back to us.  I have a vague understanding that, in a Constitutional
Convention, everything is open to a revote.  IIRC any changes go back
through the legislatures of the states for ratification.  I don't know if
it is only the legislators who get to vote (sort of dangerous to my way
of thinking) or if the people in each state vote and then the legislature
pass/fail the ammendment.  One thing I do recall when this came up years
ago is that most people feel it is a very dangerous undertaking for we
could completely rewrite the Constitution.  I, for one, would like to
hear from you on this.  I do not support any party, though I have given
support to this or that issue/candidate because it/they aligned with what
I feel is correct (or at least most correct).
Jayson
Doesn't anyone see the constant state and federal legal volleying
which is prolonging this painful 'election', as being a little stagey,
odd,
contrived, suspicious?  Possibly this is a manufactured event designed
to...
to what?  Force a crisis?  And why?  To create more false divisions in
the
American public?  Foment civil unrest which will be cause to implement
and
impose the ML/ FEMA organizational structure?  Jim Marrs, author of
"Ruled by
Secrecy" said on the Dec 3rd Dreamland broadcast, he believed the
situation has been engineered to call for and hold a constitutional
convention, at which
time the constitution could be revised, rewritten and in doing so,
pretty well
trashed out.  Hadn't thought of that one, and am not familiar with
'Constitutional convention', which I plan to research.

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Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 06:41:32 -0800 Vera Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Mulva,
 Nessie is an anarchist. He believes we should all govern
ourselves.

Anarchy:  The theory that regards the absence of all direct or coersive
government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and
voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of
organized society.

And the problem with governing ourselves is...  Instead of a top down
control structure with power concentrated at the top, how about a bottom
up control structure with power concentrated at the bottom.  Sure, there
must be some 'organization' at a state and national level, but only  very
limited in scope and power.

 These people can't even form their own opinions, so imagine
how that could work!

Very well, actually.  Why should everyone think alike?  Why should
Washington, or Salem have much of a say in how I run my daily life?  Many
actually do live in semi-anarchy now in that they pay very little
attention to the Laws or Rules, yet manage to get along fine.  You see,
most people are fully able to run their lives with out breaching the
trust and cooperation of their neighbors.  That they can be arrested and
jailed for this is the proof that we are well down the road to where the
Constitution no longer matters.

 Actually, if all anarchists could just find the
Lord, they wouldn't be that far off.

So, with the blessing of christianity, anarchists would be right, but
without it they are not?  It is thinking such as that that is at the core
of much of the problem many have with christians.  If I live my life in
accordance within the 'social' precepts described in the bible, but
reject the 'religious' precepts, I am wrong, but if I accept the
'religious' precepts I am right?   Interesting.  That thinking was pretty
evident in the "christian" treatment of indigenous people world wide.
"Accept Christ or die".

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: comments?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:55:15 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Decriminalization is the only solution. Nothing else will work.=20

More and more people, as well as a few politicians, are in agreement.
Decrimminalization, and I would go so far as legalization, is the only
answer.  From any point of view you can take (except "The Moral
Imperative" that is against any and all forms of free will) the current
policy of crimminalization for certain drugs while other more dangerous
drugs are touted on tv is a total failure.  But there is money to be made
in the War on Drugs so be assured it will continue.

A little mentioned, and far more destructive to society as a whole, side
issue is the whole drug testing issue.  In most areas 75% of the blue
collar jobs demand a drug test BEFORE any hiring, and random testing
thereafter.  This is not true for management or executives in those same
companies.  Many are not aware that, while we are deluged with calls to
make drug testing mandatory for students, no public school teachers,
coaches, janitors or secretaries are tested.  In fact, unless you fall
under DOT mandates, no government employees can be tested.  No
politicians can be tested.  Now ask yourselves this; if our politicians
maintain that we must test all workers, students, and welfare recipients,
why shouldn't the politicians be tested?  If a company demands drug
testing for all blue collar workers, why shouldn't all managers and
executives be tested?

Another interesting thing:  According to the Supreme Court drug testing
is a search of the person.  Do you realize that, according to our legal
system, the Constitution only applies to what government does to us, and
NOT what private companies can do to us?  That's right, private
employeers can do pretty much what they want to the workers as a
'condition of employment'.
Rant over
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] To: Governor Bush and Vice President Gore

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Laughed so hard I broke my chair.  WELL DONE!!!  Gotta send this around.
Still laughing.  Now if we could only get them to do it.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Election 2000: SNAFU or NWO Plan?(part IId)

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:10:58 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Freedom from or Freedom of Religion.when those Pilgrims landed on
the Rock - little did they know what would happen when the Gentry
Landed.

Chuckle.  So true.

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Re: [CTRL] Election2000: Hegelian Style

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:01:57 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Well Jayson or Jason -

It's Jayson, outlawlady can't spell.

neither candidate and would be King will be known
as Landslide..
Enough to humble even a President to the will of the people.

HUH?  I doubt that.

One thing - Bush promised no US Soldier would EVER wear UN Uniform and
I hold him to that promise - and I hope he got that dump truck driver's
ID, for that was a warning to him.

Promises, are like southern body orifices, all politicians have two.  We
can disagree respectfully on the UN.

So to win by a landslide is a great victory - and to lose or win by a
handful of votes, is not greata victory.oh the agony of
defeat.

Again, HUH?  No one is going to win this election by a landslide.

Saba

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:07:29 -0800 Mulva [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Jesus whom IMHO is far above the class of any
political association and is/was/always has
been/always will be in the business of cleansing of us
sins through His ultimate sacrifice so that we would
have a path to His Father's Kingdom  also said,
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be
Caesar's." Luke 20:22-25. Translation: Give the
government what the law says but don't make them your
God (a very unliberal approach I must say and
certainly unlike the agenda of Al Gore's!)

OK.  Wasn't one of the first things he did upon entering the temple was
to throw out the moneychangers?  A little more direct approach than the
"Render..."bit.  I realize that the religious reading of this is that
they were desecrating 'holy' ground, but the Dead Sea Scrolls put that in
a much different light (I am not an expert in this, I came across them
while researching archaeology in that area).

Now before you flame me for this..these are my
personal beliefs. If one does not believe this so be
it--Christ leaves the choice to us (yet another
unliberal approach).  Let me also add--as if
needed--tham I am far from mastering the art of
seperating my own needs from wants and that I too
struggle with the temptation of financial gain and
materialistic issues. However, I am also aware of the
problems they can cause from first hand experience
with my relationship with God.

I would not flame anyone, much less someone who is trying to carry on an
honest dialogue about a touchy subject.  Needless to say, I am not a
believer.  I am just continually amazed that christians can find a couple
of lines that MAY be regarded as being anti gay, but ignore the numerous
direct warnings about the evils inherent in capitalistic ventures.  To me
the bible (old and new testiments) is a good reference book, and has some
good concepts for getting along with each other.  No better and no worse
than any of the other major religions.  However, the role of christianity
in history leaves one to wonder about the valididy of allowing it any
modicum of power.  It is that history that makes me very nervous when I
see politicians invoking that same religion as 'the right way' or calling
this a christian country.
Interesting thread.

Thanks
Mulva
Jayson R. Jones

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Re: [CTRL] Election 2000: SNAFU or NWO Plan?(part IId)

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:47:38 -0600 outlawlady [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Dear Jason:

My father was learning english phonetically  when I was born so it is
(Jay)(son).  I've had to spell it for people ever since.

When was the last time you read the Constitution? Or the First
Amendment?

When I wrote the message that you replied to.

It says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of
speech, or of the press; or right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

My reasoning is as follows:  Establishing religion in this country is a
conspiracy by default from the start.  Our money reads "In God We Trust",
our Pledge of Allegiance says (in part) "One nation, under god",   we
take an oath on the bible, get sworn to all public offices including
president on a bible, and every legislature opens it's sessions with a
prayer (almost always a christian prayer.  The one nonchristian prayer
offered at the opening of a legislative session (that I know of) was here
in Oregon a couple years ago.  A Wiccan was schedualed to give the
opening invocation.  The howl from the christians was deafening, and some
of the more narrowminded legislators walked out in protest.).  We are
continually told by our elected officials that this is a christian
country, founded on christian principals, and use the bible as a
reference book when debating.  That is a defacto establishment of the
christian  religion in America.  The government also prohibits the free
exercise of other religions, namely many Native American religions, and
any others that do not conform to christian concepts of propriety,
including 'Black Magic'.

 (all churches in America were Christian at that time).

But not all religions.

 In the second place, these are not MY words. The "In Their Own
Words" series is about the QUOTES of people involved in this
New World Order (New Age) takeover. In this instance,
 I was quoting a United States Supreme Court JUSTICE!

Considering the present SNAFU, quoting a Supreme Court Justice may not be
acceptable proof of anything.   However, it is interesting that you
equate New World Order with New Age beliefs.  Is there something we are
missing here.  Are all NWO advocates also praticianers of New Age
thinking?  What exactly do you think makes up New Age thinking/Beliefs?

Hope this clears things up for you.

Ditto

 Take care  Godspeed!

I always take care.  As for taking Godspeed, I quit doing that in
college.  However I did see Godspell, Superstar, and The life of Jesus
while smoking herbs.  Does that count?

 The OUTLAWLADY

Jayson (irreverant and impudent as always)

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:36:13 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

It's hard for ANYONE on the Internet to 'prove' they are who they
claim to be...
Whether Duncan is or is not who he claims to be doesn't matter...his
posts should be allowed to stand or fall on their own...
June

That is true of everyone.  We all have a DELETE key as well as a REPLY
icon.  One of the things that attracted me to this list is the free flow
of information, thoughts, ideas and comments on a wide variety of
subjects from a wide variety of viewpoints.   However, I too, do not like
flagrant commercialism on a list like this.   Ideas YES, Advertising NO.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] How Dare Government License Drivers?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:36:25 -0600 K [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.infomagic.net/liberty/vs001208.htm
Vin Suprynowicz
December 8, 2000
And now ... armed guards at the DMV

Constitutional authority for licensing cars and drivers is pretty
 tenuous, largely based on early legal sleight-of-hand designed to
purposely confuse the excisable professional of "driving" -- hauling
passengers or freight for profit on the public roads -- with simple
civilian travel.

Just one more example of the sleight-of-hand that has negated almost
everything in the Constitution.  From the straight forward document
setting out the basic rights of people in a free society, to the mountain
of legal doubletalk we have to day took slight-of hand to a whole new
level.  Today we have 'magicians' pulling all sorts of rabbits out of
hats, making everything dissappear, and creating the illusion of peace
and prosperity while they pick our pockets (and the environment) clean of
anything of value.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:06:19 -0700 BB [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Steve, where do you COME UP with this stuff??
Are you very angry at everybody??
A few liberals are christians..
Where were you given insight to Jesus' heart and mind??

I can't answer for Steve but if you read the Dead Sea Scrolls you
certainly get that impression.  How many times does it state in the
christian bible that Jesus warned the people about the 'evils and
dangers' of money, money lenders, the rich, and capitalistic concepts?
Jayson
(Heathen, Heretic, Blasphemer, and all around nice guy)

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Re: [CTRL] BSE from space?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:22:00 +1100 Guitar Virtuoso [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
 ... and became a Vegetarian.
I does however occur to one, that the heathen practice of cannibalism
existed long before the recent mad cow hoopla?   Which would suggest
that this authors contention may not be all that airtight?
V.

Not so fast there Bucko.  The authors are correct in asserting that some
deseases are passed on through cannibalism.  They very correctly point to
the well known and well documented instance of Kuru Kure being passed
through cannibalism among the New Guinea highland people.  Given that,
there is legitimate concern as to what other deseases can be transmitted
through eating animals.  True the New Guinea tribes did eat the brains of
their loved ones raw, and we usually (except sushi) cook our meat,
however it would be a wise move to watch the research now being carried
out on Mad Cow Desease.  Remember the outbreak of various forms of Huanta
Virus that occur most every year in winter?  Contact (either direct or
through inhalation of the dust) with feces from mice (symbiotic hosts)
who are infected spreads this.  It is one of the things archaeologists
are warned to watch for as it can lay dormant in the dropping for a VERY
long time.
Jayson
PS: "heathen's"??? Who are you calling heathen  Think about the
Catholic ritual communion and the symbolic "Take this and drink from it
all of you, for this is my body (the host) and this is my blood (wine)".
If that is not symbolic cannibalism then what is it?  What about the
Donner Party, or the group of South American soccer players who survived
a plane crash in the mountains?  Are they heathens?  Untill you are put
in the situation, please reserve your Judeo/Christian judgement.

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Re: [CTRL] Election2000: Hegelian Style

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello,
I have commented on varius posts that fall within my interest
grouping, but have pretty much refrained from comment on the current
election.  However, a couple of things contained in the flood of postings
concerning this have caught my attention.  Spin, dissinformation and
blatant ideology aside, there are some issues here that strike to the
heart of us as a people, and what we believe ourselves to be.
The percentage of "problem ballots" in states other than Florida
are substantially lower than the percentage of "problem ballotst" in
Florida.  In the other states, the number of "problem ballots" would not
cause a change in the winner EVEN IF ALL WERE FOR ONE CANDIDATE.  In
Florida, with the margine so close, every vote counts.
There seems to be a thread going around that no one with an IQ
over 70 thinks that Bore won the popular vote in Florida.  Well, I can
safely say that I have an IQ over 70 and I think that, if all the
disputed votes were to be fairly counted, Bore would be the winner.
Let me point out that I am NOT a supporter of either of these
BOZOs.  To me they are Twedle de dee and Tweedle de dum.  Both have some
points I agree with and both have so many flaws in ideology and logic
that I could not in good conscience vote for either of them.  I am not a
listener to the "Talking Heads", I prefer NPR, PBS, CSPAN, Nightline,
Rush (for comic relief), a state and a local talk show, and Coast to
Coast.  If this "Labels, Categorizes, Pidgeon Holes, or otherwise gives
an insight into the inner workings of my mind" so be it.
Bore has offered the proposition that ALL the votes in Florida
should be counted.  That seems logical and fair minded.  George II
refuses to let any votes be counted and relies on legaleese to claim
victory.  I admit a bias against legaleese, but even setting that bias
aside, Bore's seems to be the logical position.  No law can ever be
written that covers all eventualities, so what is wrong with counting all
the votes.
It seems to me that the Florida Supreme Court has made a hash of
all this by (correctly I think) ordering the recount, but failing to give
enough time to do it.  TWICE!!!  Florida is the only contested state, so
far, and Florida is where the power should lie to correct the problem.
Florida judges, elected and appointed officials, and election officials
all are ultimately accountable to the Florida voters, so it is up to them
to fix the problems in their state.
To me, Judge Saul's ruling was seriously flawed.  To rule that
the the Bore team had failed to prove that the recount would
'substantially change' the outcome while at the same time refusing to
look at the evidence (ballots) that would conclusively prove whether this
was true or not, is absurd.  But then, this sort of thing happens in the
lower levels of our justice system every day.
Like people everywhere, and of every time, we are going to get
exactly what we are willing ot accept.  V. Gordon Childe (I will
elaborate on this reference if you ask, but suffice it to say the he was
a noted archaeologist in the 40's and 50's) once said:  "Man has never
adapted to reality, only to his perception of reality".  On a fundamental
level this is unimpeachable.
Are we in a crisis?  Well, yes and no.  Yes, this could be the
straw that finally breaks the dam of resentment, unrest, polarization,
etc. that has built since (at least) the 1950's.  If that dam is
breached, the direction of the flood is hard to ascertain, and the net
change is hard to assess.  I have my own theories about what should stand
after this flood, but they have no more weight than many others.  In
fact, from the conversations I've had over the years with many people,
the result I advocate is pretty universal, though the methods stem from
my own perception of the ills we have today.
No, there is no crisis unless a majority of the people refuse to accept
the outcome.  This is the more likely outcome for several reasons.  We
(in general) are currently fat, dumb and happy with the economic boom and
lothe to rock the boat at this time.  Secondly, we are sufficiently
confused as to our core beliefs because there is no real pressure on us
to make hard choices AT THIS TIME.  It is like a frog being dropped in
hot water; he will jump out.  But if you put the frog in cool water, then
heat the water up; the frog will stay there till he is thoroughly cooked.


Jayson R. Jones
Oregon

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Re: [CTRL] The most absurd economic system ever invented.

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:21:27 -0500 Nurev Ind Research
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Farmers can't earn a living. Nurses and trash collectors, can't earn a
living wage even though your health depends on them doing their jobs.
Teachers struggle to keep their families afloat.

Then you have CEOs who get million dollar bonuses even though their
company looses money. Mediocre actors like Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, and
Arnold
Swartzejrgh make 20 million per picture. And then you have this
obscenity...

Joshua2
=
Dec. 11, 2000
 Texas win$ A-Rod sweepstakes; slugger agrees to $252M deal

Yup, makes you want to revolt doesn't it.  What do you expect?  Corporate
America Rules!  I refer you to Sarah Anderson and John Cavanagh's report
"The RIse of Corporate Global Power" (Institute for Policy Studies, Dec
4, 2000).  She posted a synobsys to this list and I emailed her to send
me a hard copy (an internet one is available).  Very eyeopening to get
hard data, and just one more board in the building of resentment and
distrust of Vampire Capitalism.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] The Truth

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:16:32 - Oscar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~alb/misc/truth.html

The Truth
Good Piece!!!
OK, so both you and I realize this.  How do we get the fat dumb and happy
to wake up? I'm afraid that they won't listen untill "they come for
them".  Ao many people speaking the truth and so few people listening or
acting on the truth.  Must be 'Merica.
Jayson

These are some basic truths about our society today. Look around, see
for yourself. I am not going to be sidetracked into the wasted effort
of ``proving'' these things here for people who will not listen anyway
[but please see the additional reading section]. Listen to me, listen
to the press, listen to the government. Who do you believe?

The United States Government tortures its own citizens.
The U.S. Constitution is just a piece of paper to covert thugs. The
only rights you have are the ones you can enforce.
``Freedom'' is an empty concept used for social control. You are free
only to the extent that you do not, for any reason, step on the toes
of any ``important'' people.
The elite and powerful in the U.S. are effectively immune to law. The
law is a tool to serve the ends of the powerful. Selective enforcement
is the norm.
The elite opinion-makers are not nearly as smart as they think they
are.
The mainstream press will not challenge -- and at times participates
in -- outrageous governmental abuses.
The ``ruling class'' elites typically respond positively only to the
threat of losing their privileged positions or of violence.
There need not be any official, organized conspiracy. Conspiracies do
occur regularly -- they have throughout history, and our time is no
exception
They blame it on ``rogues'' if they are caught, but knowledge goes
straight up to the top.
The U.S. government is not the United States or America. Most
Americans are decent people who would be appalled to know the dirty
tricks their government carries out in their names.
 The public will never go to the voting
booths knowing which of their leaders participated in domestic spying,
political surveillance, and outright torture.

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Demystifying Democracy: And delegitimating the State

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

I don't think that just seeing through the BS gives anyone power but your
closing remark by Andrew Fletcher (1698): "Arms are the only true badges
of liberty.  The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from
a slave."  certainly points to a reality that is hard to ignore.  When
all is said and done, all the lines drawn, and the battlefield defined,
it is the man with the gun who will prevail over the man without one.
Jayson

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:58:47 -0600 K [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a341b9f6f53.htm

December 10, 2000

THE UNVEILING; Behind the Political Curtain
By NEAL GABLER

THINGS used to be simpler in America.
 Americans clung to the belief that the system was sound
 and democracy inviolate. They even believed their leaders
 were generally decent and honorable men, statesmen
 rather than hacks, which is why the president nearly always
 topped the list of the most respected people in the nation.

But in an atmosphere of demystification, even this belief could
withstand only so many blows before it began to crumble.
This wising up was not necessarily a bad thing.
 They were seeing things more cynically, perhaps, but also
more realistically.
Still, there had always remained one beacon of hope and belief: the
election process itself. Whatever our political leaders did, however
much our political institutions may have been compromised, the
ultimate authority rested with the people through the exercise of
the vote. The vote was holy. When one entered the voting booth
with a pencil (or, as we now know, a stylus), pulled the curtain and
cast a ballot, one was entering the real cathedral of democracy.
Here it was simple again. You made your choice. Your choice was
registered. The candidate with the most votes took office. The
Republic endured.

Then came Florida
In this way the electoral process itself has been both demystified
as just another hoax and delegitimized, so that whoever becomes
president cannot possibly be a symbol of our idealism. Rather, he
will be the one whose party managed to work the system better.
That is where 50 years of revelation and cynicism has brought us
— to the point where the presidential election has become the
biggest pseudo-event of all and power resides not in the electoral
system but in those who feel they have the perspicacity to see
through it.

Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The
possession of arms is the distinction of a free
man from a slave.  ~~ Andrew Fletcher 1698

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] UNEXPECTED GLACIER MELT MAY DROWN VAST AREAS

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 07:02:30 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/2000 8:51:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 12/07/00:Â UNEXPECTED GLACIER MELT MAY DROWN VAST AREAS
 Word has just leaked out that the ice sheet that covers Greenland is
melting.
Not to fear.  Former President Bush said there is no global warming,
and you know that when Dubya takes office, he will say the same thing.
That
means there is no global warming.   That's the facts.  Prudy

It is true, there is no global warming.  I heard Rush say so. 8-(P)
Jayson
(Tongue firmly in cheek)

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Re: [CTRL] Drinking Like A Revolutionary

[Jayson R. Jones]

ake for the modern patriots of freedom to
spill out into the streets for a "Boston Tea Party 2"?  What
"Intollerable Act" are we waiting for?
Jayson R. Jones

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Re: [CTRL] Right-Wing Takover Of The Court Almost Complete

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:14:41 EST William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Widely regarded as a fair-minded moderate, Kenneth Starr comes from
a movement of right-wing judicial activists who are determined to
revolutionize American law -- and are succeeding.

Well, I almost fell out of my chair when I read this first sentence.
However, the rest ofthe piece led me to a speedy recovery.  All the more
reason for me to hope that Bozo Bore gets in rather than George II.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Wakenhut runs Australian Concentration Camps

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:31:25 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

PROTECTION: PAY YOUR MONEY, TAKE YOUR CHANCE

We are a nation of shirkers. We collectively shirk our responsibility
to protect and care for each other. We have no ligitimate excuse. We
have
reaped the consequences. The public trust has been ravaged by
unspeakable government misfeasance. Scandal is the civic norm. We, in
our naive folly, increasingly opt for the "lesser evil." Sometimes,
that's exactly what we get.

SOMETIMES???  Where have you been  I agree that we have grown fat,
dumb and happy and that we are afraid to look too closely at either the
founding fathers or the document that they founded this country with.  We
lack the guts to call it like it is and rebel.  THe founding fathers were
no different than we are, they just got fed up sooner.

 Privatization of public responsibility
metastasizes through out society. Reliance on government contracts has
so ravaged the private sector that no employee feels secure. Public
reliance on government protection has so corrupted society that we can
no longer depend on each other for even common courtesy, let alone
mutual aid.

Let George do it!  Or Al!  Or Bill!  Yup, we do seem to lack the guts to
act for ourselves.

 Mass media mind control more or less sucessfully shifts
the blame for our mutual socio-pathology onto relatively defenseless
scapegoats. We suffer ever more greatly as these trends feed on each
other, and on us. We who refuse to care for each other have been
bankrupted and left to die by an avaricious and uncaring medical
system.

You forgot GREEDY.   No money no medicine.

We who refuse to clean up after ourselves are choking on each other's
fumes. We who refuse to teach each other are dragged back from an
otherwise promising future by the collective ignorance that our
education system so lovingly nurtures. We who refuse to protect each
other are at the mercy of a legal system whose very business is crime.
And a lucrative business it is.

Not only lucrative, but also a way of demonizing those among us who are
willing to make changes.  Most think that if you are charged with a crime
you muct be guilty.

By this point in history, all but the most naive of us have stopped
expecting cops, public or private, to all behave like Boy Scouts.
There has been simply too much evidence to the contrary. In the gray and

murky zone where law enforcement overlaps with organized crime, an
underground empire has arisen. It is a world where the so-called "War on
Drugs" is
often a war on rival drug dealers, and always a war on the poor.

It is also a way to distract us from the real problems by blaming our
troubles on "Drugs", and ramping up the police to a military force that
enforces social order through "No Knock" warrants, forfeiture without
conviction, and "justified shootings".

It is a world where "National Security," excuses war crimes and genocide
is a
salable commodity. It is a world where justice is for sale and cops
are for rent.=20

What do you think the Gulf War was all about?

A family business, Wackenhut Corp., was founded by one time FBI man
George R. Wackenhut, in 1954

He learned it from Old Man Rockefeller and the Pinkertons (ask the
descendents of the coal miners).  None of this is new.  How long we will
put up with it now that a majority of Americans have it in their face is
another matter.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Not Everyone Adores Gore

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:17:41 -0500 Nurev Ind Research
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
The Rich have extracted about as much as they could from this extended
cycle, and now the rest of us will have to take it in the neck.

It's my speculation that this downturn will be the deathblow to
Corporate Capitalism. I sincerely hope so.
The world can't take much more of it.
We'll see.
Joshua2

Well, they did it to us with gold back in the late 70's, and I think you
are correct about it now.  I would bet that, if we could dig out the
facts, we would see that the top cats have shifted their money to a safe
place already.  All that is left are the smaller fish greedily trading
the empty shells around.  I could be wrong.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Fw: [CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Fw: [CTRL] Fwd: Names of Participants in MiamiRiot

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 00:00:11 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Since neither side will have more than about a 40% support base of
the voters,=20

And that's just the voters. Remember, more than half of us didn't
vote.
If you don't think we're part of the calculus, your counting the wrong
thing. Stop counting votes. Votes don't matter. Count what does
matter. Count heads.

True, voters and nonvoters alike are in this mess.  I wonder how long we
are going to have patience with the BS?  All it would take is a
particularly aggregious event to spark revolt, and a charismatic leader
to emerge to lead us.  Where that leader would lead is the question.  It
could be back to the original concepts of the Constitution (I would hope)
but it could easily be to a worse case scenario.  I just wonder what
issue/event will be the straw that broke the dam of resentment/rebellion
that has been building in this country for the past 40 years?  As you can
probably tell, I have no doubt that it will happen, only as to the
trigger and the outcome.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Fla. Legislature Convenes

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 09:13:48 EST "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

 ``Much of the world is watching and history is watching as well,''
said Florida House Speaker Tom Feeney, the most forceful advocate for
the
 gathering, said in opening remarks. 

That's absolutely true.  We've never watched the will of the people
subverted so overtly.  Always before they just used disinformation.
This time, it's the candidate's big brother telling the world,
 "My brother's going to be president, and I don't care how anyone
 votes or what they say.  My brother's going to win this election.
 Just don't try to get in my way."  It is historical.  Prudy

Or 'hysterical' ;)  One thing for sure, all this is going to shake some
things up.  I don't think, at this point, anyone can predict just how
this will all turn out but it sure is fun to watch.  If this was
happening in a 'Third World Country' (tm) ole Jimmy Carter and the rest
would be there insuring a fair and impartial count of the votes.
Personally, I can't understand why all the votes should not be counted.
It is illogical to argue otherwise.  Getting this whole thing tangled up
in legalese is laughable.  The essential nut of the whole thing is count
the votes.  A simple concept (like no forfieture unless ther is a
conviction, or if the government takes my land they must pay me fair
market value for it) but one that seems to have escaped the talking
heads.
Jayson

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] _=5BCTRL=5D_Fw?= : [CTRL] Fwd: Names of Participants in MiamiRiot

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 00:20:22 -0600 Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
I think there are good and intelligent people on both sides of this
election.  We are all being cheated!  Looks like the Gore/Daley crowd
will prevail Chicago-style (yeah, we heard you, Bill, and are still
laughing at your defense of the integrity of Chicago elections)
But if Bush wins, it will be the Bush/CIA crowd to the liberals.
"We" have lost because "they" have succeeded in truly dividing us.
Each side sees the other as evil and as people who will stop at nothing
to win, cheaters, thieves and liars at best.  So what are we being set
up for with all this?  Something BIG you can bet.  Columbia?  Israel?
The more chaotic it becomes in Florida, the more I am looking around
trying to see what this is a distraction away from so we will not notice
until it is too late.

I'm in agreement that there are good intelligent people on both sides,
and that we are all being abused by the legal wrangling and whipping up
of support for one or the other candidate.  However, I don't think this
was planned or that there is any great intelligence behind the scenes
(even tho this IS Conspiracy Theory List).  I think this is one of those
rare opportunities where unforseen circumstances combine to produce a
real chance for total reform of a corrupt system.  If enough people get
fed up with the BS surrounding this, they may just revolt.  Here's
hoping.
Jayson

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: [Activist_List] The Rise of Europe]

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:00:06 -0500 Nurev Ind Research
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
November 3, 2000
Washington's Nightmare: The Rise of Europe

Globalization is not going to happen. Borders are not about to come
down; states are not about to disappear; US corporations are not about
to
take over the world. The moment of global US supremacy has come and
gone.
The world is dividing into geopolitical power blocs. The United States
today confronts a superpower rival stretching across much of the
Eurasian
landmass – the European Union allied with Russia. The European Union,
once merely a trading bloc, then a single internal market has evolved
into
a political federation, aspiring to its own foreign and defense policy.
Now itis threatening to make Russia’s vast energy and mineral resources
its
own. This is the stuff of Washington nightmares.

Tribes to states to nations to regions to global.  Maybe this is just the
next logical step in the steady progression towards one world government.
 While I do not, in theory, object to some form of world governing body
with limited power, I do have concerns.  Any world governing body should
be for the betterment of the world as a whole, not as an
economic/military power structure.   I can't help but think that the EU
is adopting more of the American Vampire Capitalistic concepts than the
old European Benevolent Uncle concept.   Washington may be in a tizzy
because their corporate puppeteers are getting nervous.  With the rise of
"Trading Blocks" around the world freezing out Corporate America, they
see a limit on their growth potential.  If the EU can rival Corporate
America, and develope a military equivalent to the U.S, can the 600lb
Gorilla learn to behave in a world of equals?  Maybe it is time for us
(US) to play nice with Canada and Mexico before they get really pissed
and join some other "Trading Block".

Just a thought
Jayson

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] True Believers

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 03:47:39 -0800 Tenorlove [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

--- William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If Van Impe is using the bible as his guide in these matters his
 opinion is worthless IMHO.

Only to those who don't believe in the Bible. Van Impe, like most of
the media hucksters of Churchianity, has a following of true
believers, for whom his opinion is anything but worthless.

Scary to contemplate, isn't it?  Are they ALL registered Republicans 8-)?
Jayson (Conservative Independent)

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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