Re: [CTRL] hello

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey, I was wondering the same thing.  Guess great minds think alike.

Or they are small minds who sign up with ISPs which provide multiple IDs,
and/or 'freebies' like Juno, Hotmail, et al, and pretend to be different
people...   ;-)



June

 __,  ,__)__,  ,__)   __, ,__)
(--|__| _ ,_ ,_  (--|\ | _   (--\ | _  _ ,_
  _|  |(_||_)|_)(_|_| \|(/_(_|_) \|(/_(_||
 (|  |  ,_|   ((__|

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Source: Fate Of Clinton Being Decided At Hilton Head

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

All this stuff brings back to mind some stuff I remember reading in
1992...

Now, this is TOTALLY 'anecdotal'...I haven't saved the publications (not
feeling the need to)...

But 1992 was a personally traumatic year...and the presidential election
was NOT a priority of mine...I only knew I wanted Bush out, but I
definitely didn't like Clinton -- I didn't know a heck of a lot about him
at the time, but had read the year before that he was 'hand picked' by
the Bildebergers to replace Bush...

As a sort of 'mental vacation' when I took a week's vacation that year
and wanted some 'beach reading', I bought some astrology magazines...
each one was ostensibly published by a separate publisher, and the
articles were ostensibly written by different authors...

...but I noticed they all seemed to be saying the exact same thing
regarding the November elections, and beyond...to the point that the
articles on the election seemed to be written by one person...

Now perhaps this has something to do with any validity of astrology...
if an astrologer looked at the charts of all the 'players' in the
election, one would expect they'd all 'see the same thing'...

But if you ever read any of these rags, it quickly becomes obvious that
they NEVER agree on ostensibly the same subject...like, the month's
horoscope for any one sign is completely different depending on the rag
one is reading...so the fact that they all agreed to the minute detail
seemed 'strange' at the very least...and perhaps reflected an underlying
'agenda'...

Anyways, they all agreed that Clinton would win in November...but they
also ALL agreed that he wouldn't finish his term...that if he 'managed'
to make it to the 1996 election, that it would be his 2nd term he
wouldn't complete...

Because of this prediction, they spent a lot of time analyzing Gore's
chart, it was here that some discrepancy in 'interpretation' arose, some
predicting he'd complete Clinton's term and go on to win the next
election, some predicting that Gore himself would have problems
completing his term...

When they conjectured as to WHY Clinton wouldn't complete his term of
office (whether it was the 1st or 2nd term), assassination came in at the
bottom of the list, altho there WAS some feeling that health may have
something to do with it...but all seemed to feel that scandal of some
sort would be the main cause, a scandal which would involve Hillary
Clinton (and perhaps Al Gore)...

So when all this started to 'shake out', I had a strong feeling of 'deja
vu'...

Now, I'm open minded about astrology...but my gut feeling was (and is)
that all these supermarket astrology rags had an agenda to push, and that
their predictions in 1992 didn't reflect the science/art of astrology as
much as it did 'someone' pulling the strings beyond the sight of the
audience...that whomever had decided that Clinton would run and win in
1992 also was going to make sure he didn't stay in office...


June
   (Ring out, wild bells to the wild sky.
)The flying cloud, the frosty light;
  ) *  ( The year is dying in the night;
)(  Ring out, wild bells, and let him die.
   (  ) (
)*   ))   -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
   (((  *
)  H ))
  [ ](
   (  *   |-|   * )(
  * ) |_|.  )
   (  | |.
 )   /   \ .' .*
(   |_|  '  ..
 )  | ___ |  \~~~/  ' .   (
*   | \ / |   \_/  \~~~/   )
| _Y_ ||\_/   (
 *jgs   |-|  __|__   |  *
`-`__|__

 __,  ,__)__,  ,__)   __, ,__)
(--|__| _ ,_ ,_  (--|\ | _   (--\ | _  _ ,_
  _|  |(_||_)|_)(_|_| \|(/_(_|_) \|(/_(_||
 (|  |  ,_|   ((__|

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used 

[CTRL] Introduction and Inquiry (fwd)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:56:07 -0500
From: "John V. Wilmerding" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Introduction and Inquiry

I am subscribing here at the behest of a casual friend, William D. 'Bill'
Reynolds, from my home town, who has a concern I would like to bring to the
list.

Bill, age 67, is an acute allergy sufferer.  He says the main allergens
involved are triphospates (food additives), sugar, and newsprint.  He takes
antihistamines on a regular basis, especially nightly in order to be able
to sleep, and uses topical cortisone -- he says he has done so for years.

Bill traces the onset of his allergic reactions to a period immediately
following an announcement by, or direct quote from, one Miles Copeland
(perhaps the same person as the manager of Sting and his band, 'The
Police') that appeared in Rolling Stone magazine in the late 1980s, to the
effect that "the CIA has developed means to make anyone allergic to anything".

Bill has a theory that his allergies were intentionally induced by a person
or persons unknown who were in disagreement with certain aspects of -- or
false assumptions about --  his academic and political activism.

Bill's interests and areas of inquiry to this list:

* At the recognized risk of appearing paranoid about his theories, Bill
would like to know more about a category of pathogens or other substances
that can cause allergies or heightened sensitivity -- decreased immunity --
leading to serious allergies or more frequent or exacerbated allergic
reactions to common substances, including anaphylactic shock.  Does anyone
have any links to archives, research, or institutions working in this area?
One possible referent, though not relevant in Bill's case, might be the
research done on Agent Orange and other pathogens released in the Vietnam
and Gulf wars, to which large numbers of US service people were exposed.

* Bill would also like to know if anyone connected with this list is
knowledgable about governmental covert operations -- domestic or foreign --
or any organized human experimentation with -- or applications of -- such
substances.  In this context, Bill mentions a former CIA agent and
'whistle-blower', Vincent Marchetti, who possibly may know something about
this matter.

I have no way of vouching for or against any of Bill's theories or
imputations here.  However, he does not have Internet access, and I thought
it might be helpful if I could assist him in answering his questions.

While Bill's theories seem very tenuous to me, they are lent some creedence
by some very recent authoritative reports in the London Times regarding
Israel's organized research into -- or development of -- pathogens
(especially biological) that can be targeted at people of specific genetic
makeup or ethnicity.

John Wilmerding
Putney (VT) Monthly Meeting of Friends (Quakers)

 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
  Please Begin Your Subject: line with one of these:
 AIR or AIRBORNE GENERAL ANAPHYLAXIS OTHER
   ARTICLE or STORYINDOOR  PRODUCTMEETING
  KIDS or PARENTS ASTHMA SERVICE STINGS
ANNOUNCEMENTTESTING LATEX   DRUG
   FOOD PETS TREATMENT SYMPTOM
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] CHRISTMAS WISHES

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
 OK. I should have said that Adam and Eve were promised a Savior, and that
 the promise they passed on got distorted in many cultures up to the time of
 Noah -- but you have to sometimes try to cut these posts short when you
 think you've made the essential point.

There were no such persons as Adam and Eve for sure, and the existence
of Noah is highly doubtfull. How do you feel about Mickey Mouse and
Donald Duck? How about the tooth fairy?

Well, as I stated in my own responses, it all boils down to a matter of
FAITH...

Almost all ancient cultures WORLDWIDE have legends/myths regarding a
terrible flood, replete with their own 'Noah' who saves at least a
remnant of the people/flora/fauna...and archeological digs worldwide HAVE
found evidence of a catastrophic flood at the same geological layer -- so
there would seem to be SOME basis in fact for such legends...


  It is by FAITH alone that one is saved, not by turning THINGS into icons
  and worshipping them...

People don't need to be saved for being born. They need to be saved
from the insanity of people like you.

_I_ posted the statement you're responding to...the point I was trying to
make is that he's expending a lot of energy into making THINGS into
objects of worship...

It boils down to the fact that ANY religion is a 'leap of faith'...and
one wastes one's time by trying to argue 'objective scientific facts' on
such a subject...


June

 ===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
 ===

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] nurev learning about birth control pills

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Jim Kinney wrote:
Huh?  Most of the women I know who are on the pill have chosen to be on
it, not because their 'man' has demanded it..  They see it as a personal
choice that allows them to decide what happens to their bodies.

I wonder what he has to say about those women who voluntarily choose to
have their tubes tied as a method of permanent birthcontrol...


June

 ===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
 ===

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Larry Flynt on MSNBC Cable

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

   Flynt: “... As far as the investigators that I have on the payroll,
if they know people in the White House, that’s a very possibility, but I
have no contact with the White House.”

So he can truthfully say he has no contact with the White House -- while
those whom he employs CAN possibly have contact...he sounds like he went
to the same parsing English classes as the prez...

It's highly unlikely that anyone at the WH has direct contact with
Penthouse or Flynt, either...but that's not to say that those whom the WH
employs to conduct it's 'dirty tricks' don't...


   Flynt: “Look, all I know is that we hired a firm in Washington that
is made up of former FBI and CIA operatives, that are assisting in the
investigation, and we have two of the most respected investigative
journalists in the business, but they would only take this assignment with a
deal of anonymity.”

And one has to wonder if this investigative firm has contacts in/with the
WH...


   Flynt: “I’ve never met Clinton. I’ve never been to the White House. I
have no contacts with the White House.

But his employees DO...


June

 ===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
 ===

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Snvel snivel was Re: Echoes from the Past

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Smooth move from republicans and lying and blow jobs to sixties liberals
fighting against the dreaded "Jim Crow south."

Especially considering that those very same Jim Crow laws were kept in
effect by southern Democrats, who firmly controlled the south...


June

 ===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
 ===

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] (no subject)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lilke it, I like it !!
For once can say, no way !  hehehe !  Okay, so I'm a rebel at heart
but then spent (lived) in Maine too long.  Suits the downeast Yankee part of
itvbg
Go for the gusto

Uhhh...care to elucidate?

(For the rest of the list, THIS New England Yankee has NO idea what Lynne
is babbling about.)


June

 ===
   Ring out the old, ring in the new,
 Ring happy bells, across the snow;
 The year is going, let him go;
   Ring out the false, ring in the true.

 -- Tennyson:  In Memoriam
 ===

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

[CTRL] Check out this Woman's New Years Resolution! (fwd)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

--Forwarded Message--

I just thought this was a really fantastic New Years
resolution.  And at 89 years old too!
Gerry
(Read the article below)


1998

Granny To Walk U.S. For Campaign Finance Reform

By Av Harris
DUBLIN, N.H. (Reuters) - An 89-year-old New Hampshire woman
has resolved to start 1999 with an eastward walk across the
entire United States to take a personal crusade for election
campaign finance reform to the capital.

Doris Haddock, fondly known as "Granny D," hopes that by
crossing thousands of miles, she will convince politicians
that so-called "soft money" is a cancer in the U.S.
political arena.

"My purpose is to create a groundswell for campaign finance
reform to eliminate the cancer," she said said. "My goal is
to convince Congress that we, the people, do care about
campaign finance reform." She has public meetings planned
along the way.

Unrestricted "soft money" mostly is raised by political
action committees, or PACs, which can be linked to political
parties. Such money is supposed to be for promoting party
policies or messages, not the election of any particular
candidate.

Haddock aims to start her journey with California's Rose
Bowl parade in Pasadena, Los Angeles, on Jan.1. She plans to
reach the capital, Washington, D.C., in October.

She has been practicing for her haul across 11 states for
months near her home in the small southern New Hampshire
town of Dublin.

Haddock said she expects to carry all she needs on her back
and will find places to lay her sleeping bag along the way.

"I'll just walk 10 miles a day," she said.

Her son, James Haddock, has set up a website for his plucky
mother, www.grannyd.com, showing towns on her route and a
copy of a petition she will hand out calling for Congress to
enact campaign reforms.

So far Haddock, shown in a website photograph in her straw
hat and knapsack, has met with former New Jersey Senator
Bill Bradley, the only Democrat to have formally announced
his intentions to run for president in 2000.

Bradley has made campaign finance reform a key issue of his
own.

"We the people do care how money is spent to become a
political candidate," Granny D says in her website.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] Heavenly Host

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

A very Merry Christmas to all...

June
   (\  _  /)
   ( \ O / )
(// \\)
   X
  / \
 /___\
   "
And suddenly,
  there was with the angel a multitude of the
heavenly host praising God and saying, Glory to God in the
   highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

  _  /)
 (\  _  (\  _ (\  _  /)   o / ) _  /)
 ( \ c  ( \ c ( \ O / )  \/)\)   _  /)  o / )
(\  _ (/(\/  (/(\/ (\  _   (// \\)|\ o / ) \/)\)   _  /)
( \ c   /| /|  ( \ c  X   | \   \/)\)   |\ o / )
 (/(\/ / |/ |   (/(\// \  |__\   |\ | \   \/)\)
   /| /__|   /__| /|/___\  " | \|__\   |\
  / |   "  " / |  "  |__\" | \
 /__|   /__|_  /) " =_ |__\
   "  (\  _   " o / )  _  /)||\ "
(\  _  (\  _  ( \ c  (\  _ \/)\)   o / )|||\ _ /)
( \ c  ( \ c   (/(\/ ( \ c_  /) |\\/)\) \O/  )
 (/(\/  (/(\//|   (/(\/   o / ) | \|\   \/\   )
   /| /|/ | /|   \/)\)  |__\   | \  // \  )
  / |/ |   /__|/ ||\ " |__\ |||/  __\|
 /__|   /__| "/__|| \   "   |__: //| |
   "  "  (\  _  " |__\
(\  _( \ c "  !   -
( \ c  (\  _  (/(\/\ _  /)  (   )
 (/(\/ ( \ c/|  ___ \O /  )   -\ _  /)
   /|   (/(\/  / | /   \/|)   )   - \O / )
  / | /|  /__||   ./||\  )   _  (  )/)\)
 /__|/ |"  \___/ | \/\ | (_)  -\/|\
   "/__|/|\  |__\   -- | | \
(\ _  "   "   /|\|__\
   (  \O __(\ _ /)"
  (   /\/  (\_-_) (  \O/@ ) (\_  /)
  (  /  \_(  \O /___| (  _|/_ ) \  _ /)(  O @  )
   |/__( /_oo-#=|  (/( )_\   \-O/  ) _ /)  (   \|_ )
   | |\\  :|(/| \/  _ /)  ;/_)_(_ \_\  ) O/  )  ( / |_\
 (\ _||__  |O/  )  _(   )  \|\) /|   )   / ( )
(  \O /  | |\\ =#-@@|   ) /  /  / __\  / |\ )  ;/__)_(
( /_oo-#=\/ |\ ) _  /)   //| | __||V  (   )
 (/| \/  (\ _ __||V   ___O / )//| | _  /) /_|_|
  ||__  (  \O /  //| | \ \/  )  _ /))==O / ) '  '
  | |\\  ( /_oo-#=   |\ )   O/  )  \/)\)   _ /)
 (\ _ (/| \/   __||V   /|   )|   .-O/  )
(  \O /||__ ejm97 //| |   / |\ )   __|| (=) )  )
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Re: [CTRL] Brian, Furby Update It's Worse than We thought !!!

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, MARK wrote:
Lets not forget that last year in the UK you couldn't buy a Tellytubby
toy for love nor money, or a Tickle Me Elmo.

Actually, it was obvious earlier in the year that Tellytubbies were being
positioned to be the 'fad' toy of the holiday season here in the U.S. --
but then Tiger Industries released the first Furbies in September, and
Tellytubbies are completely ignored, sitting forlornly (some may argue,
'deservably so') in a corner of the store while people riot over the few
Furbies available...

And to keep OT with the conspiracy speculation, for those who aren't
familiar with Tellytubbies, they are in some ways very similar to Furbies
--when pressing their stomach, they babble their own language...but they
aren't as 'interactive' as the Furbies (neither do they have fur coats,
blinking eyes, wiggling ears, etc.), and so lost this year's holiday
competition...

At least Tellytubbies don't fart...but it was reported that one
particular type of Tellytubby was repeatedly stating the word 'faggot',
initiating a recall a few months ago...


June
|
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 | ||  ___o  /|/_
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Re: [CTRL] AIDS Herbs Cocktail Said to Cure AIDS-related Ailments

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

BLANTYRE, Malawi (PANA, 12/23/98) - The Catholic Church in Malawi claims a
number of AIDS patients in the country have been cured of AIDS-related
illnesses through the use of local herbs such as aloe vera, frangipani, guava
leaves, sweet potatoes and okra.

Sr. Lilia Conol of the AIDS Patients Home-Based Care Unit of the Church told
reporters the use of a cocktail of the herbs have successfully cured
AIDS-related ailments like shingles.

"People have been cured of shingles and mouth sores after using these herbs,"
she said.

First off, I'm extremely supportive of 'alternative' medical options,
including the use of herbs...

That said, it SHOULD be pointed out that both shingles AND oral canker
sores have the same cause, namely the herpes zoster virus (same one as
causes chicken pox)...

One is never 'cured' of this virus...once infected, the person always has
it present, albeit in remission...

So before jumping on the 'we found an herbal cure' for these things, I'd
make doubly sure that the patients with these conditions didn't just go
into remission, as normally happens with these conditions...


June
   \|/   Best wishes for a
  --O--
   /|\MAGICAL HOLIDAY
  //|\\
 ///|\\\  and a
|
   /|\   HEALTHY and HAPPY
   O O ||| O O
 __|||__NEW YEAR!


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Re: [CTRL] Dodi, Di,Barrantes Alan J.Pakula

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Source - Richard wrote:
I think this whole concept is uncanny. Has anyone done any research
into this field???

Yeah...but they've all died in mysterious car crashes...   ;-)


May i just add that Rik Mayall had a serious accident last year. I'm
happy to report that he is OK though. But does that mean he is safe in
future??

Well, there's that case of the drummer for...?

Here I go again...can picture the guy, but draw a blank on his name and
the name of the band he was with...I want to say 'Iron Butterfly' but
don't hold me to it...

But he was involved in some 'interesting' stuff...and just went missing a
few years back...last verified whereabouts was on the highway a few miles
from his home (from cellphone records), told his wife he'd be home soon,
right after meeting with someone...

And he was never seen again...and his car was found at the airport, but
no evidence he ever took a flight out of the airport...

And a few people have claimed to have seen him at various places around
the globe...from all accounts, he had a great marriage, adored his kids,
and was doing well financially...so it doesn't seem to be a case of
someone taking a powder to get out of an uncomfortable situation...


June
|
  -=*=-
(| (}   |
 |/||\{\
 | ||  ___o  /|/_
   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\


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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Dodi, Di,Barrantes Allen J.Pakula

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Hilary Thomas wrote:
I think you are talking about Jessica Savage.

Yes, thank you...that is exactly who I was thinking of...

I could picture her in my mind, but the mind shut down when coming up
with a name...


June
|
  -=*=-
(| (}   |
 |/||\{\
 | ||  ___o  /|/_
   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\


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 email.
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] The Debate and The Media

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
No mention on the network news of the Democratic  mass walkout before
the actual impeachment votes as a demonstration against the fierce
partisanship that clearly drove the impeachment.

Once again, I have no idea what networks you watch, Marilyn, as every one
I watched made mention of the totally meaningless (my viewpoint)
Democratic gesture...


It was an eye-opener in terms of what is going on down there in D.C.
I know it will not be a popular thing to say here, but I came away
with a lot more respect for the Democratic members of the House and
for Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is the lone Independent (a
Socialist, actually.)

And so is not particularly independent, altho he claims to be
Independent...

(Again, watch those capitalized descriptions, people)...  ;-)


I also find it curious that we get absolutely no details and very
little discussion of why Mr. Livingston is stepping down. Why does he
deserve such consideration from the press in terms of privacy that he
gets off with an apology to his wife?

Uh...maybe because he never had sex with a subordinate (according to
him), and was never required to give sworn testimony about such
relationships, and hence never committed perjury nor obstructed justice
in regards to them...

I suggest you reread, and constantly reread, the two articles of
impeachment, Marilyn...nowhere in those two articles does it say Clinton
was impeached because of an extramarital affair...


And why is his party so rigid
that they are forcing him not only to give up the Speakership but  to
resign from the House?

The AREN'T...this is Livingston's own choice, and took the Republicans by
surprise...if any party forced him, it's the Democrats who are insisting
on conducting a sexual witchhunt...

I wonder how many DEMOCRATS have strayed beyond the bounds of matrimony,
but who won't be 'outed' by Flynt et al...


June
|
  -=*=-
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 |/||\{\
 | ||  ___o  /|/_
   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\


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 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] The impeachment of President Clinton

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 20 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well said, but this Jerry Harp won't understand, neither will Prudy or
the other Clintonites.  He could nuke Ohmaha and they would still support him,

Or perhaps OKC...

Ooops!  Forgot...already done...


June
|
  -=*=-
(| (}   |
 |/||\{\
 | ||  ___o  /|/_
   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\


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 email.
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
It is absolutely clear, June, that no one is going to change your
mind. Just as it was clear today, despite reasoned, impassioned
statements and even pleas from the Democrats for fairness and the

I listened to most of the debate on Pacifica Radio, and am watching it
right now on CSPAN...and don't know where all these 'reasoned' Democrats
of yours are...

'Impassioned', yes...but fanatical to the point of being cult followers,
ala Jonestown/Heaven's Gate...

They admit that Clinton lied and is guilty of misconduct of office, but
they don't want the constitutional process of impeachment to be
instituted, instead they bleat for a meaningless slap on the wrist...


So where does it go from here?

To a Senate trial...where it should be...


It did occur to me that a trial in the Senate might lead to
exoneration.

Indeed it might...but I doubt it...I think a lot of dirt is going to
shake out, some of which might fall on congressional members on both
sides of the aisle...so Clinton will not be completely exhonerated...
but that doesn't mean that there will be enough votes to remove him from
office...


But you could hear the deep division between people deeply committed
to social problems and social concerns that would be shelved in the
event of the Senate trial and the people who frankly don't give a

The Senate holds impeachment trials all the time (federal judges) and
life goes on...as it will when the president's trial commences...


If it broke down and we were thrust into a civil war, would you know
who to trust? Do you know which "militias" are not racist. Which are
not infiltrated and corrupt? Would you know who are the
real "patriots"?

Marilyn, you are the only one thinking in terms of a civil war...the rest
of us are quite willing to trust in the Constitutional processes...


Funny--the question of our time is who is "real."

Indeed, Marilyn, indeed   ;-)


And all this questioning of who is "real" only makes things
absolutely surreal.

Sounds like you're a woman who is particularly 'in the know' on this
issue...care to tell us about it?  ;-)


June
 o   .
\   /^\ /_\
))  /|\ |Q|
 .--#. //|\\  .-' '-.
/_[Toy Store]_\   o//|\\ /[SCHOOL]___\
 |++ .-. |  -(^)- ///|\\\__O/_O_\O__  | [] .-.-. [] |
   ..|++ |*| |...(^)..///|\\\.(^)(^)(^)...|| | ||..{ldb}

   artist:   SheDragon/Spirit of the Night {ldb)

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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
I think that we fought a terrible and bloody Civil War to end
slavery.

No, the Civil War was about States' Rights...slavery was a side issue,
and Lincoln did NOT support the Union coming out with a diffinitive
statement against slavery...

But neither the emancipationists nor the women's suffragists had to stage
a coup d'etat to gain the right to vote, they were eventually able to
gain that right thru legislative means...


June
 o   .
\   /^\ /_\
))  /|\ |Q|
 .--#. //|\\  .-' '-.
/_[Toy Store]_\   o//|\\ /[SCHOOL]___\
 |++ .-. |  -(^)- ///|\\\__O/_O_\O__  | [] .-.-. [] |
   ..|++ |*| |...(^)..///|\\\.(^)(^)(^)...|| | ||..{ldb}

   artist:   SheDragon/Spirit of the Night {ldb)

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Constitution is a 'political document.

It is not a legal document using 'Law' definitions.

It most certainly IS a legal document, it is the document from where all
other U.S. laws stem...

CONSTITUTION:   ...a) the system of basic laws and
principles of government, society, etc.  b) a document
stating these.  c) such a document of the U.S.

-- Webster's New World Dictionary


CONSTITUTION:  an established law or custom...the basic
law in a politically organized body; also a document
containing such law

-- The Merriam-Webster Dictionary


"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a
more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic
Tranquility, provide the common defence, promote the
general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish
this Constitution for the United States of America."

--  Preamble to the U.S. Constitution


"This Constitution, and all Laws of the United States
which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all
Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the
Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall
be bound thereby...

-- Article VI, U.S. Constitution


"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned,
and the Members of the several State Legislatures,
and all executive and judicial Officers, both of
the United States and of the several States, shall
be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this
Constitution..."

-- Article VI, U.S. Constitution


If the Constitution is NOT a legal document, then it is meaningless...
and I don't want to hear you, or anyone else complaining about 'the right
to free speech', or 'the right to keep and bear arms', if you sincerely
believe it is nothing except a 'common' piece of paper...



By a quick perusal of quotes from the Federalist and by the very actions of
the generation that founded our great country with blood and fortitude; and
wrote that great document, that sexual matters and personal 'crimes', (a
felony or misdeamors leagally) were not impeachable offenses.

No, but perjury, and obstruction of justice -- which is what the 4
articles of impeachment against Clinton comprise -- ARE considered
impeachable offenses.

And as I've mentioned more than once, federal judges HAVE been impeached
for behavior which could be construed to be solely 'sexual matters and
personal crimes'...so if conduct is considered an impeachable offense in
a federal judge, why WOULDN'T it also be an impeachable offense in the
President of the United States?


On checking in the good Document,  and impeachment is just removal from
office, disqualification from trough flow;"but Party convicted shall
nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and
Punishment according to law."

Yes, the party who is impeached and removed from office can than be
subject to a criminal trial...but a criminal trial is not required...
IOW, a party impeached and removed on criminal matters may NOT
necessarily get a criminal trial afterwards, while OTOH a party may be
impeached and removed from office on matters which are not necessarily
legally criminal, but fall under the umbrella of 'misconduct in
office'


I would rather Clinton resign.

I'd rather it go to a trial -- that way each article can be laid out for
all to see, and all the evidence in support of, or opposing, be shown for
all to see...

With resignation, you'll just get the Clintonistas bleating forever about
how he was 'unfairly hounded out of office' (which now the Republicans
can complain was done to Livingston, who just announced his resignation)
...with a trial, both sides get to present their case...

And since everyone seems to feel that there aren't enough votes in the
Senate to carry a resolution to remove Clinton from office, one would
think Clinton and his supporters would be embracing this option...so one
does have to wonder what those who claim to support Clinton but call for
his resignation which to hide...


I do not believe that a partisan impeachment is the way to go.

Well, impeachment seems to be a foregone conclusion...Clinton WILL be
impeached today...so the question lies in whether he resigns, or
undergoes a Senate trial and is possibly voted by the Senate to be
removed from office...


June
|
  -=*=-
(| (}   |
 |/||\{\
 | ||  ___o  /|/_
   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\


[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among...

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, E Mael wrote:
it is the pervasiveness of alcoholic poisoning in this country that
accounts for the all pervasive symptom that people think that they can
change someone's mind about anything at all. furthermore it is only the
ones who step out from the alcoholic poisoning loop who know that, no
matter what method you may use, there is no way that anyone can change
anyone else's mind about anything.

what do you drink june, and how often?

It's a shame I have to waste my limited allottment of posts to this list
to respond to this slander...

But typical of the Clintonistas in Congress, instead of sticking to the
issues, you attempt to slander those with whom you disagree.

But in answer to your question, I drink coffee, tea, and an occasional
soft drink...I do not partake of alcohol...

I also do not partake on any illicit/illegal chemical substances.

Can YOU say the same?


June

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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon
LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom?  White males? Blacks?
Women? Native Americans?

It WAS founded on liberty, albeit a flawed one...

But what other country in 1776 (or 1783) gave social and political
liberty to blacks, women, or native populations?

At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could
peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so
that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the
electorate...

And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal
process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are
able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in
office, including the President...


June

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   /%;@\
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 '^^^M^^^`

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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
And I say that before they hold Clinton over the spit, let every
single on of those legislators who has had an extramarital affair
step downand let's see who's left.

Did any of those legislators perjure themselves regarding the affair?

Did they have an affair with an employee while undergoing a sexual
harassment suit by another employee?

You see Marilyn (and KNOW very well, altho you refuse to admit it), it
has NOTHING to do with sex, within or without the boundaries of the
marriage contract...

Clinton is being impeached for PERJURY, and OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE...

Altho WAR CRIMINAL should now be added to the list...

So it is irrelevant if Livingston's had an affair in his own past...it is
irrelevant if EVERYONE in the House of Representatives has had an
extramarital affair, since the impeachment ISN'T ABOUT SEX...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
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/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
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 '^^^M^^^`

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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
I take it you favor a strict caste system. Would you say that "The
Nanny" portrays a criminal situation?

Potentially.

Are you saying your parents situation equates to the Clinton/Lewinsky
matter?  Did your Mom lap dance with a cigar while your father kept an
important business meeting waiting as he watched your Mom's performance?

What sort of performance reviews did your Mom get from your Dad while she
was dating him?  How did her coworkers feel about it, if they were passed
over for promotion, or at the very least got lesser performance reviews
than your Mom, solely due to your mother enjoying a cozy relationship
with your eventual Dad?

Once again, you know very well what the difference is, but refuse to
recognize it, or are deliberately obfuscating matters...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
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 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

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*---*
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Gerald Harp wrote:
Isn't it a little overboard to believe that every consensual illicit affair
between adults is a case of sexual harassment?

Ask the other people in the office who are passed over for promotion,
people who have the experience and qualifications for the job, while the
young chippy who lapdances for the boss gets the promotion...

Or the coworkers who are expected to be at work on time, not come back
late from lunch, and at least leave work on time, if not put in overtime,
while the babe who's blowing the boss gets away with coming in late,
taking long lunches, leaving work early, taking excessive time off, etc.
etc.


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] !!! NEWS FLASH !!!

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Alamaine Ratliff wrote:
Commander in Chief (CINC), Arkansas National Guard (Air and Army); plus
they have an active C-130 base in Little Rock and used to have something at
Blytheville (Eaker?) ...

What actual military grade did Clinton achieve during the Vietnam War?

You accuse Trent Lott of being a draft dodger, but I don't seem to
remember Clinton being drafted, either...

Serving as CIC as part of one's elected office doesn't count...spell out
for us just when Clinton himself was drafted, what military grade he
achieved, and where he was stationed...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
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 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

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*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Linda Minor wrote:
get a law passed.  If you can't control the president any other way, you
select someone to set him up (like Monica, with her sexually obsessive
background and ties to wealthy families like Peter Straus), then get her a
job as an unpaid intern.   She flirts, smiles, wiggles, and does all the
things Bill is known to respond to.  When he repeatedly says no to her, she

It was fine up until the last bit (altho I'd argue whether Lewinsky was
part of a deliberate setup)...

But to suggest that Clinton 'repeatedly' said no to Lewinsky is the most
hilarious thing I've heard from you Clintonistas...especially since both
he and Lewinsky verify the fact that it didn't take much more than
Lewinsky batting her eyelashes to get Clinton to go down on her...

There is NOTHING in Clinton's own decidedly flawed testimony where he
implies that Lewinsky had to work very hard to get him interested in an
illicit relationship with her...


Goldberg and Linda Tripp to send Monica back to make more enticements.  At
the same time they were bribing Paula Jones and actually putting up the
money to keep her lawsuit going alleging harrassment, when her reputation in
sexual matters was equally as seedy as Monica's.

Again, I'd argue that either Ms. Jones or Ms. Lewinsky had 'seedy'
reputations (except amongst you Clintonistas, who endeavor at all costs
to besmirch their reputations -- a real shame in the case of Ms.
Lewinsky, who seems to actually be in love with Bubba)...

But since even prostitutes can be victims of rape, your argument is
meaningless anyways...


Anyone who refuses to see that this was a set up is no different than the
people who followed Hitler blindly into the holocaust.

No, it's you Clintonistas who are slavishly devoted to a charismatic
leader who is leading you ultimately to doom and destruction...if not
quite on the level of Hitler, then definitely in a class like Jim Jones,
or Heaven's Gate...


It's easy to create
a law and then focus on its technicalities.  That's why we no longer have
justice under the American system of jurisprudence.  The big picture of the
Constitution, due process, fundamental fairness have been removed.

Uh, let's see...when two original articles of the Constitution are
followed strictly to the letter, you interpret that as being unfair?

I suppose throwing the Constitution out the window, and doing something
unconstitutional, like censure, WOULD be considered fair by you?

Or perhaps not doing anything at all, allowing Clinton to get away with
perjury, while any regular citizen committing perjury would find the full
weight of the jurisprudence system crashing down on their heads -- such a
double standard would be 'fair' to you?


 June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally, I think the president should resign.  Perjury is not an
impeachable offense.

Sure it is...legally, perjury is considered a 'weightier' crime than
bribery...

Federal judges have been impeached merely for frequenting bawdy houses...

Any behavior which is considered misconduct in office is impeachable,
somethign our founding fathers recognized, as they drew upon the history
and precedents of impeachment in the English Parliamentary system...where
members have ALSO been impeached for spending time with prostitutes...


Even if it is perjury. That is up to a criminal court He
may be indicted in a criminal indictment but he may not be brought to a
criminal trial untill after he leaves office.

Which is why the House impeaches, and the Senate holds a trial...if two-
thirds of the Senate deems that the charges have merit and vote the
president out of office, then the criminal proceedings can commence...

What you are arguing for is keeping a potentially criminally liable
person in office until his term of office ends...


There are many other 'offenses'
that Clinton could be impeached on but those involve both political parties
and the cryptocracy.

No argument there...


June


 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, E Mael wrote:
it could certainly be said that monica sexually harassed him into their
sex acts.

How?

Did she hold a gun to Bubba's head and force him to go down on her?

I don't care if she pranced into the Oval Office stark naked and threw
herself on him -- he, as a man more than twice her age, he as a married
man, he as her employer, should have just said "Thank you Miss Lewinsky,
I find your interest flattering, but inappropriate...", and escorted her
out the door...and immediately seen to it that she was transferred
elsewhere, where they would not have contact with each other...

If she indeed DID stalk him, then he should have had her fired, and
gotten a restraining order against her...


it might do well for you to think about your posts before
jetting them off for all to see, without any thought as to what you are
actually saying.

Just because YOU are thoughtless, doesn't mean the rest of us are.  Talk
about not thinking before posting, I suggest you reread YOUR post,
perhaps it will dawn on you just how preposterous and ridiculous it is...


June

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sexual harassment IS a crime. 

I don't think asking is a crime?

Sure it is, if the person asking is in a position of authority.


June

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Ru Mills' Dream

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Brian Redman wrote:
In light of a report that Sherman Skolnick is saying an attempt
to arrest Bill Clinton had occurred yesterday afternoon, a

I sincerely doubt this happened, as the President of the United States
can not be subjected to criminal proceedings until he is out of office...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
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/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
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 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] !!! NEWS FLASH !!!

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Gerald Harp wrote:
I trust you are not like Trent "draft dodger" Lott who complained a short
while back that Clinton missed an opportunity to bomb Iraq.

"Trent 'draft dodger' Lott"?

Perhaps you can elucidate on CLINTON's military experience for us?


June


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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
He is accused of perjury in relation to matters which do not, in any
way, relate to criminal acts.

Bull!  He was sworn to give truthful testimony in a sexual harassment
case...sexual harassment IS a crime...

June

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   /%;@\
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 '^^^M^^^`

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Is the media turning on Clinton?

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
I keep hearing the media saying that as far as Clinton goes, it's all
over. He's as good as impeached and politically dead.  Any opinion
that counters that view is given short shrift in passing.

If the media IS doing this (and you seem to never give reference to
specific media outlets, Marilyn), then it's something that's occurred
since this weekend...what I've been hearing on NBC, CNN, FOX, is that
Clinton is so popular, that all the polls prove how popular he is, so how
can impeachment be seriously considered?

It's only since the articles were actually passed by the Judiciary
Committee and sent on to the House that, as was pointed out, there has
been a subtle shift in the media's reporting...but what I've seen is a
reaction akin to amazement that this is actually happening, and perhaps
the rats are deciding to abandon a sinking ship...

I think also that in the past, the WH wielded a lot of power in only
'allowing' certain reporters and media outlets access to the WH (this
applies to past administrations, too, not just Clinton's)...and that now
that impeachment seems imminent, those in the media realize they are in
the position of Clinton now needing them more than they need him, and
they are therefore taking advantage of the situation...

This scenario would come about irregardless of the party and the politics
of whomever was in the White House...the rats abandon the sinking ship
and turn into a flock of vultures circling their dying victim...


There's hardly any mention of what this trial would do to the country

Not surprising, since the media's never discussed what Chinagate,
Whitewater, Vince Foster and all the other murders, have done to this
country, either...


it's highly unlikely that the Senate would agree with an impeachment.

Doesn't matter if the Senate 'agrees'...by the time it comes to the
Senate for a trial, the president's already been impeached.

Impeachment means only that a public official has been accused of
misconduct in office...impeachment does NOT mean removal from office.

If the House impeaches, then the Senate holds a trial...a trial which may
or may not lead to Clinton's removal from office, but that's why the
trial is held...to determine the validity of the charges...


The national opinion may be 68-32 in favor of non-impeachment, but

The 'national opinion' is as ignorant of what impeachment actually is (as
your statement above displays you yourself to be), and therefore when
asked about impeachment, 'the public' who equates the word with 'removal
from office' answers in the negative...

I'd hazard the guess that if the polls instead worded their questions
more like:  "Do you think the House of Representatives should adopt the
charges against the President, and then have the Senate hold a trial
based on those charges?", the answers would be very different...



Tiresomebut essentially frightening. Not to mention the
arm-twisting and career threats going on within Republican
ranks to get the desired effect.

And the anti-impeachment forces aren't doing the same thing?


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
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/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

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*---*
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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Ron Reagan/Dick Powell (was: Heads Up...)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  And so I ask the list membership the question I always ask when I've
  recounted this -- does anyone remember this article, or hearing this
  story elsewhere?  And more importantly, does anyone have a clue as to
  what Powell said or did to Reagan during those 20 minutes?

I don't recall ever actually reading anything in Parade Magazine. I usually
find the K-Mart ad there with it in the center of the Sunday paper more
absorbing. But I would suggest that this doesn't sound really plausible. Maybe
Ms. Allyson remembers it that way. Maybe she embellished it.

If she hadn't divorced Powell later, I may have said the same thing...

But you'd have to have actually read it...the way she presented it was
not in a way to necessarily make Powell look good...only that she was
pretty sure that that was the definitive moment when Reagan 'became' a
conservative (but perhaps he always was, and the 'liberal' thing was just
an act?)...

She really came off sounding like she knew more than she was willing to
tell...and like I said, there HAS been a few things written over the
years about Powell, who apparantly was involved in more things than just
acting/directing...but for some reason, no one seems willing to delve
into his background...

I almost got the feeling that whatever Powell was involved with was a
mitigating factor in Allyson seeking a divorce from him...


take it seriously, and that's not necessarily a defense of Ronald Reagan. But
then again, maybe Powell wrote him a nice check. What do I know?

How nice of a check would it have to have been, to cause someone to make
a 180 degree turn in philosophy/politics?

Remember, it was shortly after this strange encounter that Reagan started
expressing an interest in politics beyond the sphere of the actors'
union...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Ron Reagan/Dick Powell

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Reagan hosted General Electric Theatre which was similar to Playhouse 90.
Could you have the two reversed?

I just remember 'Death Valley Days', which was definitely Reagan...he may
have had an earlier show he was host of...but Powell was host of his own
anthology series, which was a popular type of show in those days...


And OK, who wants to be first to step up and make the ominous connection with
the evil General Electric?

Not to mention 20-Mule Team Borax   ;-)

(One of my clearest, earliest memories is of Reagan doing an ad, cast as
a driver of one of those 20-Mule teams...)


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Che wrote:
I brought up Bu sh  Rea gan to emphasize the similarities between the
Republocrats  Demicans.  They all eat from the same dog dish.

What an insult to canines!

No self-respecting dog I've ever known would eat from the same dish as
THAT crowd!  ;-)

I think it would be a better country if dogs DID take over from the
Republicrats!

At least we'd know the White House wasn't being used as a 'cat house'...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
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 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] jumping in

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Kenn Thomas wrote:
Good ol' CTRL. It's hard to know where to jump in, except to say that 2
inches is a difference that makes no difference

Only a man would make that comment!

;-)

June

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks, but I would wonder about ole Ronnie. Have you read Moldea's Dark
Victory and/or Freed's Secret Life of Ronald Reagan?  What would a 'B'  do to
play 'AAA'?

Exactly.  Reagan is probably WORSE, since he was so good at hiding it
behind his teflon veneer...

Which gives me an opening for once more 'trolling' a nagging question
regarding Ronnie and his politics (and with apologies to those on the
list who've read this from me before)...

But shortly after Reagan won the election in 1980, I read an article in a
mainstream magazine (I believe it was something like Parade), where the
actress June Allyson discussed her life...it wasn't a particularly
political interview, but there WERE a few interesting paragraphs in the
middle of the article where she mentioned the relationship/friendship she
and her then husband, Dick Powell, had with the Reagans in the late 40s,
early 50s...

Ronald Reagan was president of the actor's union at the time, and
professed a political philosophy that was extremely left of center...
while Powell's politics were extremely 'rightwing'...

So it seems strange that two men with such ostensibly divergent views
would not only be friends, but would come over to each others' houses at
least once a week for dinner...but this is the scenario Ms. Allyson
presented...

And she said that Dick and Ron would often get into heated political
arguments...Allyson presented herself as being 'apolitical' and not
getting into these arguments herself, and claims not to remember the
exact arguments, only that they'd always disagree, and heatedly so...

But according to her, one night at one of these dinners, when Dick and
Ron were beginning to get into one of these arguments, Dick took Ron
alone into the Powell's library and closed (and locked?  how would
Allyson have known it was locked?) the doors...and according to Allyson,
it got very quiet in there, and after about 20 minutes they both came
out...at which time, Ron's political philosophy had taken a 180 degree
turn, and he was now as 'rightwing' as Dick Powell...

Allyson recounted this incident as the 'defining' moment when Ronald
Reagan went from being liberal to conservative, and gave her ex-husband
the credit for 'bringing Ron around'...

As I said, the article wasn't particularly about Reagan nor even
political, and after recounting the above, the article went into other
matters...but it always stuck with me, wondering just WHAT Powell said
and/or did behind those closed doors that was able to turn Reagan from a
liberal to a conservative in 20 minutes, after months of weekly heated
arguments had failed...

And so I ask the list membership the question I always ask when I've
recounted this -- does anyone remember this article, or hearing this
story elsewhere?  And more importantly, does anyone have a clue as to
what Powell said or did to Reagan during those 20 minutes?

I personally don't have a clue, but when I read that article it gave me
the creeps...I mean, if someone's ideals can be so easily turned in only
20 minutes, it implies either a weak (or non-existent) mind/ego, and
possibly a mind-control scenario of the Manchurian Candidate type...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
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/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe that I mentioned that the Reagan Administration was peopled with
white collar criminals Wall Street, CIA... they swooped in from
everywhere.  I wouldn't take issue with any of the items you mentioned.
However, you have no proof that Reagan himself had personal knowledge, any
more than I have proof that he did not.

Then you argue that if Reagan had no personal knowledge, then he was
grossly incompetent...   ;-)


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Happy Hanukkah

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To wish those of the Jewish faith a Happy Hanukkah (and bug the Nazi
sympathizers on the list)  ;-)

Nazis were a political party which no longer exists, so wouldn't that
be like being a sympathiser of lepracauns?

[and a lot of other claptrap deleted]

Obviously my ploy worked!  ;-)

June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I don't discount the idea that something was done to him in that time
period.  I'm aware of his change of political position.  I was not aware of
this incident.  It probably would be of value to try and find something about
Powell.

What little I know, Powell apparantly was the head of, or at least
influential with, the extremely conservative, rightwing Hollywood crowd
of the era...1930s until his death...he was basically Reagan's
counterpart on the right...(which makes their weekly get-togethers even
MORE intriguing)...

Implications were that he held 'Nazi-sympathies'...and that he had
dealings with important conservatives outside of Hollywood...but it's
always been shadowy, and I got a feeling from the article that Allyson,
rather than being the unquestioning apolitical wife she claimed to be,
actually knew more than she was willing to discuss in the article...

As I said, there's never been a lot said/written about Dick Powell and
his politics (a deliberate coverup?), but it DOES seem he was moving in
some influential circles in the 1950s...

As a sidebar (which perhaps has something to do with a potential
'conspiracy', perhaps not), it's interesting that both Powell AND Reagan
found renewed popularity in the new medium of television in the 50s 
early 60s...Reagan on 'Death Valley Days', and Powell on a series which
(if my memory serves me correctly) was an anthology of 'serious' drama,
along the lines of 'Playhouse 90'...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Ron Reagan/Dick Powell (was:Heads Up...)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, E Mael wrote:
And so I ask the list membership the question I always ask when I've
recounted this -- does anyone remember this article, or hearing this
story elsewhere?  And more importantly, does anyone have a clue as to
what Powell said or did to Reagan during those 20 minutes?

i believe it was a david niven annecdote from his series of biographical
books.

Uhhh...Powell told Reagan a David Niven anecdote from one of Niven's
books?  ;-)

No, the article I remember was definitely an interview with Dick Powell's
then-wife, actress June Allyson, and it was Allyson's recollection...and
it was in something like Parade magazine (or perhaps the NY Times Sunday
magazine)...

But I'd be interested in knowing what you remember of Niven's anecdote on
the matter...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

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*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
Just one more case of the media--which seems to be in the pocket of
the Republicans and the radical right and whoever the puppetmasters
are--calling the shots before the play is done.

What media are YOU watching?

All the mainstream shows I watch (CNN, The Today Show, et al), they all
unanimously kowtow to the Klintons...treating them like royalty, never
subjecting them to hard questions.  And this past week, the talking heads
on these shows have looked 'shell shocked', totally surprised that the
impeachment articles were passed...

Just a few minutes ago, on Fox News, one of the talking heads opined that
'the media' will present impeachment in the worst possible light, and
that the media 'will not allow impeachment of the president'...

Hardly sounds like they're in the pocket of the Republicans...


Nothing new. They haven't stopped all year and they're not about to
stop now. The only thing that makes this "surprising" is the
polls--which still say this is NOT what the American public wants.

First off, even if these polls are accurate, they matter not a whit.

The government is one of LAWS, and hopefully of our representatives going
with their conscious, and not one of public opinion polls.

Secondly, I am extremely skeptical of these polls...first off, most of
the public equates the word 'impeachment' with automatic removal from
office, so if you ask them just a blunt "Should the president be
impeached?", they assume the questioner is asking "Should the president
be immediately removed from office?", and answer no.

I think the resulting answers would be very different if the question was
worded "Should the charges against the president be assessed by the House
of Representatives, and if judged to have some basis, then passed on to
the Senate to conduct an investigation, and if such an investigation
uncovered serious wrong-doing, have the Senate remove the President
from office by a two-thirds affirmative vote in the Senate?"...

The debate on the Judiciary Committee yesterday touched on this...the
Republicans finally brought the fact that most people have an erroneous
idea of what 'impeachment' means by repeatedly stating 'the House
accuses, the Senate tries (and possibly convicts)'and the Democrats
reaction to that betrays their desire to keep the exact definition of
'impeachment' cloudy in the minds of the public, so they can 'justify'
their claim that the public doesn't want it...

Listening to the callers into CSPAN, those who support Clinton amply
displayed their ignorance of just what impeachment is...in fact, they
almost all betrayed the fact that they don't even know what the 4
articles of impeachment actually state...


And that is the most frightening element of this whole thing.  That
neither the Congressional majority nor the media cares a fig what the
electorate wants.

The majority of Germans supported Hitler, too...

The majority of Americans at one time supported the enslavement of the
Negro race...

The majority of Americans at one time supported the right of only white
males having the right to vote...

The majority of Americans at one time supported denying the right of a
woman to a safe and legal abortion...

Just because a majority supports an idea or a person, does NOT mean such
support is morally, or legally, correct...


Someone here made an excellent post some time back about the
humiliation of Democratic presidents in our time. They have not
merely been accused of "wrongdoing," but have been dragged before the
American public in shame.

Lord knows I'm no knee-jerk Republican supporter, but the only Democratic
presidents 'in our time' have been (going in reverse order):

1.  Clinton -- who came into office with a lot of 'baggage',
and an obvious defect of character where he admittedly
allows his hormones to control his actions...

Not to mention all the other really serious stuff...
all the mysterious deaths surrounding him, Whitewater,
Vince Foster, Chinagate, etc

Hardly a saint without blemish, one can NOT blame anyone
but Clinton himself for his own undoing...


2.  Carter -- shot himself in his own foot with the Panama
Canal, the neutron bomb debate, and the economy...

While the release of the Iran hostages was obviously
'gummed up' by the Reagan camp, one cannot forget the
fact that it was Carter's policies which LEAD to the
Embassy takeover in the first place...

   Again, someone who has to take a significant amount of
   blame for his own downfall...which, in fact, he does,
   based on an interview with him I heard a few months ago.

So, that about covers the two Democratic presidents whom could reasonably
fit the bill of those you feel have been the victim of some sort of
rightwing vendetta...

But that only takes us 

Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now that's an interesting observation. The media have been defending and
covering for the current president since before his first election. For years
prior to that they have consistently espoused a left-wing agenda.

I wouldn't say that...they consistently defended and 'covered for' Reagan
and Bush, too...

It's more a matter of not wanting to be 'locked out of the loop' by the
current administration, no matter WHO is in power nor the party they are
affiliated with...and so we no longer get JOURNALISM asking hard-hitting
questions, but REPORTING which utilizes blown-dried heads talking fluff
pieces (like Katie Couric at the White House this past week, on the very
day the President's council was to go before the House Judiciary
Committee, talking with Bill and Hill about the WH Christmas tree, how
'lovely' Hillary's dress was, a dress which apparantly got Hill a Vogue
cover shot...asking the Prez what the holiday season meant to him, how
was the First Family going to spend Christmas, etc. etc. -- hardly 'hard
hitting journalism', and hardly an example of what Marilyn claims is the
media's vendetta against the Clinton's)...


Yes, it is surprising that the polls say this - if they are legitimate.
Actually the most frightening element would be the possibility that these
polls might indeed be true, which would prove that our society has finally
devolved literally into "the ignorant masses."

It hasn't 'devolved' into ignorant masses...it always has been.  It's the
rare citizen who has actually read the Constitution and Bill of Rights,
let alone UNDERSTANDS them...and you will find more Americans find
politics 'boring' than not...hence, someone who doesn't read a newspaper
(most Americans don't), perhaps gets their news via radio during the
morning commute, and would rather watch a repeat of Seinfeld than CSPAN,
are NOT going to have a clear idea of what exactly the term 'impeachment
means'...a confusion which the Democrats are exploiting...

You will find that most of the polls are either conducted by the media --
which we have shown is strongly in the Clinton camp -- or by pollsters
hired by the Democrats themselves

Hardly objective...

Especially since we don't see the ACTUAL questions the pollsters ask when
they call a person...it's been reported that in some cases, a preliminary
question along the lines of 'Who did you vote for in the last election?'
or 'Are you a Democrat, Republican, or unaffiliated?', or a blatant 'Do
you support President Clinton?' is asked...and any answer which implies
the answerer is not already a firm supporter, or at least leaning in that
direction, garners a polite 'thank you for your time', and is hung up on,
without the question regarding impeachment being asked.

I haven't seen any poll where it was first determined that the person
being polled even understood what impeachment really is.

And I'd like to see the RAW DATA garnered by such polls, instead of the
'spin' put on those numbers...as anyone who's taken a basic statistics
course, it's easy to 'massage' data to imply whatever conclusion one
wishes...

As Mark Twain once opined:  "There are lies...there are damned lies...
and then there are statistics!"


I would not argue that
"neither the Congressional majority nor the media care a fig what the
electorate wants," but in fairness, and in the interest of accuracy, I would
have to add that neither does the congressional minority.

I would hope that both the Congressional majority, AND the Congressional
minority, would operate from their own conscious, and NOT based on public
opinion polls.


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
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*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
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 email.
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread 

Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Che wrote:
If you don't believe the polls, try crawling out of your troll cave
sometime and asking your fellow citizens how they feel about the subject.

First off, Che, I don't seem to remember seeing you post to this list
before, so I assume you are a new list member.

Try reading the statement which gets automatically appended to every post
to the list, especially regarding respect to others.

We endeavor to remain polite, even when disagreeing with someone...there
is no room for such 'flamebait' as your 'crawling out of your troll cave'
statement above...if you have something of worth to say, say it -- it
should be able to stand on its own merits and not need 'flamebait'...

Anyways, in answer to your question, yes I HAVE asked/discussed this
directly with people I know -- and have found the majority don't even
know what impeachment really is...and that when it is explained to them,
they then usually support impeachment.  Which is why I expect the polls
are reflecting an ignorance of what impeachment really is, rather than
what the public really wants...


I had an interesting conversation w/ some coworkers at the company
Christmas party tonite.  First there was a discussion about how Clinton's
sexual peccadillos were nothing compared to Bush's involvement in the both
the SL  Iran/Contra scandals.  Then we discussed Bush's ties w/ C I A
drug running.  A coworker and his wife from Texas acted like the Bush/C I
A/drug connection was common knowledge.  I can hardly characterize them as
being a part of "the ignorant masses".

If you are all so knowledgable regarding Bush/Iran-Contra/CIA/drug
running, then "Mena, Arkansas" should be meaningful to you...

And just WHO was governor of Arkansas at the time?


The irony is that Carter is probably the last honorable man that will serve
as president (honorable relative to other presidents, that is, I know about
Jimmy's dirty laundry).  It's hard to find anyone that thinks he was a good
president (myself included), yet he is to this day a decent human being.

Yes...how many other ex-Presidents do you find climbing up on a ladder in
the hot summer sun to swing a hammer, helping to build houses for Habitat
for Humanity...I daresay you won't see Clinton doing so, either...


I do not for a minute think Clinton is an innocent choirboy.  But I'd
prefer that he be given the benefit of the protections afforded by our
Constitution and the laws of the land.

Uhhh...then I suggest you read Article I, Sections 2  3, and Article II,
Section 4, of the U.S. Constitution, and then come back here and discuss
what IS and is not, constitutional...


June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 13 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you actually think the press is "right wing?"  You think the media is in
bed with Ken Starr?

I've never heard one mainstream media pundit say anything supportive of
Starr...if anything, they consistently present him as 'strange',
'dogmatic', 'driven', 'fanatical'...


Starr and Clinton are buddies, Starr is saving Clinton's
butt by not bringing up charges of treason for accepting bribes from the Red
Chinese in the form of campaign donations.

And other matters...

But I suspect the vehemence against Starr is due more to the fact that
Clinton and his camp expected Starr to be a knee-jerk butt-kisser, and
have been surprised that he's shown a measure of independence from
them...of course, this doesn't mean that Starr may not be kissing someone
ELSE's butt, and is serving THEIR agenda...

But the end result is that the Clintonistas have been surprised that
everything wasn't swept under the rug...but I suspect that Starr focused
on the 'easy' subject of Clinton's sexual escapades, a subject easily
understood by the American public, sure to garner 'OJ Clinton' type
coverage by the media, and hard for Congress to ignore...

I suspect Starr's strategy was to hand Congress an 'easy' matter to
investigate, basically washing his hands of the harder and dirtier stuff,
leaving that for Congress to deal with, if they so choose...an 'iffy'
proposition, since a lot of that dirt is squarely on many members of
Congress, too...

So the Lewinsky scandal gives them an 'out' to investigate, and possibly
remove the president from office, charges which are solely on Clinton,
and wouldn't lead into areas that could be very embarassing, to say the
least, for some of those in Congress...

June

 !  _  _  _  _  _  _` __  _ _  _  |_ . _  _  _  |
   -~*~-  _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_)  (_|| (/_(/_ |  || )(_|/_) o
/!\_| _|
   /%;@\
  o/@,%\o
  /%;`@,\
 o/@'%',\o
 '^^^M^^^`

www.xs4all.nl/~klr

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Happy Hanukkah (fixed-width font necessary)

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

To wish those of the Jewish faith a Happy Hanukkah (and bug the Nazi
sympathizers on the list)  ;-)


  (
  ) ( ) ((_)( ( ) (
 (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)   |~|   (_)   (_)   (_)   (_)
 |~|   |~|   |~|   |~|   |:|   |~|   |~|   |~|   |~|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
 |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|  +++  |:|   |:|   |:|   |:|
+++ +++ +++ +++  }~{  +++ +++ +++ +++
 }~{   }~{   }~{   }~{   {+}   }~{   }~{   }~{   }~{
 {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}   {+}
  {}{} {}{}  {+}  {}{} {}{}
   `{}   `{}`{}   {} {+} {}   {}`{}`   {}`
  `{}   `{}   `{}  {}{+}{}  {}`   {}`   {}`
`'{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}+{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}'`
  `{}{}{}{}__/_\__{}{}{}{}`
   \/   \/
   /\___/\
   ~~\_/~~
 {+}
 {+}
  __+++__
  ___{}{}\O/{}{}___
   __+__
  {}{}{}{}{}{/O\}{}{}{}{}{}
  `"""`
-jgs

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
The very best of children's literature seems to resonate with
"something" we already know--rather than imposing or teaching
external principles.

The main reason being, the very best of children's literature did not
start out as children's literature...it was turned into such by the
Victorians and the Edwardians, and solidified in that genre by Disney...

But if one is lucky enough to get one's hand on a very early copy of,
say, Grimm's, one easily can see that what got termed 'fairytales' were
adaptations of earlier folktales, stories told around the fireside for
the whole village, adults included...

Those original stories contained quite a bit of sex and violence, which
got sanitized in the Victorian era, and all but excised in the 20th
century...

But they were stories which reflected the psyches of the listeners...
and dealt with matters both sacred and profane, with day-to-day life and
with matters of the spirit...and so it is no wonder that they still
'resonate' with us, as that is exactly what they were designed to do, no
matter what era they were told...the issues these stories dealt with are
issues we still deal with today...love, politics, day-to-day survival
(and the quest to raise oneself above one's station), seemingly random
events/disasters and the search for meaning in same...

And yes, these stories were a convenient way to present the moral
precepts of the dominant religion, whether one prayed to Thor or
Yahweh...


I think one can only see this as dangerous or "evil" if one is
entirely wedded to a religious dogma that considers the ideas
in these stories heretical.

The irony is, the Christian church latched on to many of the pre-existing
legends and gave them a Christian veneer...others were developed later,
DURING Christian rule, and presented esoteric Christian precepts in a
guise that was palatable and understandable to the illiterate masses
(including the aristocracy, most of whom were illiterate throughout the
Medeival era...)


June
__
  .::o:.
 .::::o:.
 :o:__:::
 `:}_()_{:'
   `'//\\'`
/'  '\
   jgs

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

Today, Bill Clinton  gave  his  final  good-bye  to America in an
abrupt Rose Garden speech where he reiterated his  apologies  for
misdeeds, both the implied specific and the unmentioned general.

It reminds me of when one is suing someone...at the point that the party
you are suing comes back and makes an offer to settle (at terms more
favorable to the defendant than what would be imposed by the court),
they've basically admitted guilt and the unliklihood that they will
prevail in court -- else they wouldn't be making the offer in the first
place...

Considering most congresscritters are lawyers (or ex-lawyers), they are
very aware of this principle...so I suspect this latest POTUS ploy
asking for censure will in fact backfire...


In the normal context, his speech made no sense, coming as it did
synchronous  to  the  House  committee  having approved the first
article of impeachment.  What  an  odd  time to apologize (in the
normal context)!

They're aware that they've lost the fight to stop the articles from being
approved and passed onto the House of Representatives, so now they're
switching their focus to those moderates of both parties in the House who
are waivering on whether to vote for impeachment or not...Clinton and his
advisors are hoping that by offering to 'accept censure' (like he'd have
a choice, anyways), that they can sway those fence-sitters to vote
against impeachment...

With censure, Bubba gets a slap on the wrist, and then continues on with
business as usual...including the ability to collect his presidential
pension and hold high government positions after the year 2001...

Irregardless that censure is unConstitutional...


But suppose Bill Clinton is about to disappear, in one manner  or
another.   This  news service cannot say whether a FAKED DEATH of
Bill Clinton is  on  the  horizon.

I doubt it.  Bubba wants too much to join the Hollywood and international
jet-set crowd after his term to accept such a situation, which would
necessarily require that he become an international persona non grata...

The only way this scenario would make sense is if 'someone' has big plans
for Hillary to make a run for the office of president sometime in the
future...as the spouse of an impeached president, even a 'wronged'
spouse, and especially if Bubba is removed from office by the Senate, her
chances for a future bid for the presidency are nil...

But as the 'widow' of a president 'assassinated' while in office, she'd
find that the American public's memory of Bubba's antics is short, and
she'd be in the position of an 'honored' widow

But quite frankly, if such a scenario DOES have any element of truth, for
the life of me I can't see why they'd FAKE the death...with all that
they'd have to keep secret, hidden, and covered up, why add the extra
burden of keeping Bubba undercover for the next 30 or more years...?

It would be easier just to 'off' him in fact.  They got away with it 35
years ago, no reason they wouldn't think they could get away with it
now...

(Just to make sure I'm being perfectly clear on this, there is NOTHING in
my speculation that should be construed that I ENDORSE a possible
assassination...I am just responding to the speculation presented in the
original post, and presenting my reasons for why, if an assassination
scenario IS in the works, an actual assassination would make more sense
to those who are planning it, rather than a 'faked' one...)


Bob  Schiffer, on the CBS Network News broadcast of 12/11/98, was
all choked up -- really all  choked  up and not faking it -- when
he reported on Bill Clinton's abrupt FINAL GOOD-BYE speech  today
in the Rose Garden.

Did anyone catch Katie Couric at the WH earlier this week, for the tree
lighting...she was like a puppy, licking the shoes of the Clintons...
Bubba was properly subdued and contrite...


A key CNNS source, DOUBLE CODE-NAMED "Slim Bacall," had privately
speculated that a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton was on the horizon,
probably in Israel.

There seems to be an inordinate amount of congresscritters -- including
Schumer -- also going along on this trip...

Last major event in this process seemed to coincide with Rosh Hashona and
Yom Kippur...now Bubba goes to Israel right when Hannukkah starts,
corresponding to when the House commences impeachment proceedings...
don't know what this might mean (if anything), it just seems more than a
tad coincidental...perhaps a ploy to try to gain Jewish support?

Will we get a picture of Bubba praying at the Wailing Wall, with
explanation that that 'proves' he's repented and that God Himself has now
forgiven him (why can't Congress?)

Don't be surprised to hear him make some sort of reference to Hannukkah,
comparing Congress to the ancient Assyrians who forbade the Jews from
lighting the temple lights...


  As i said, things are going on in the Jud  Comte  with  the
  Dems  learning  things  that  they  are having BAD problems
  with.  They have  promised  to  

Re: [CTRL] Jews use Christian blood for matzoh. REPLY

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
Then you are too easily offended by body parts.

I find neither vaginas nor penises offensive in and of themselves...I AM
offended at human beings being referred to by the pornographic terms for
vaginas and penises, as if they were nothing BUT their genitalia.

As a woman, I find it particularly offensive to be referred to as either
a 'twat' or a 'cunt', especially by white Liberal males who constantly
mouth platitudes about supporting the feminist movement...such language
blatantly reveals the real contempt you have for women.

(My apologies to anyone else who may find the terms offensive, for using
them in the above statement to make my point)


June

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: IT'S WHO SHOT JOHN

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm sure the cryptocracy thought it quite humorous to link the killing of
Lennon with the then popular catchphrase "Who Shot J.R.?"

Is the reference to Lennon, or to Kennedy?

Since we ostensibly 'know' who shot Lennon, the question would seem
meaningless if in reference to him...

Unless Hinkley was only a mind-controlled patsy, then the question could
in fact be referring to the assassin's controllers


June
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Re: [CTRL] Jews use Christian blood for matzoh. REPLY

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
In reaction to the acceptance of Jana/Psychotwat's racist rantings as

I find the term 'psychotwat' as offensive as any reference to Jews
drinking Christian babies' blood...

While Joshua professes not to hate Jews, Catholics, et al, such a
term betrays a great hatred of all women in general...


June

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Re: [CTRL] Jews use Christian blood for matzoh. REPLY

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
 I find the term 'psychotwat' as offensive as any reference to Jews
 drinking Christian babies' blood...

 While Joshua professes not to hate Jews, Catholics, et al, such a
 term betrays a great hatred of all women in general...

Really? Just as offensive? Are you sure you're not exaggerating just a
wee bit?

No, not at all...I DO find it a grossly offensive term...but ample proof
of my contention of how you Liberal males actually hate women.


I would call her a psychoprick, but that doesn't seem appropriate.

It would be just as offensive.


June
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
I admit Joshua2 has gone overboard but in the past two decades, it
seems to me that it hasn't been "liberal white males" but
conservatives--mostly Republicans, but conservatives of every stripe
who have fought against ERA, against abortion and a woman's right to
choose, and done everything in their power to keep women in the
kitchen.  The corporate wife  and the gracious hostess is the
conservative model.

Reread my posts regarding Liberals/liberals,
Conservatives/conservatives

Liberals of the capital-L variety give lip service to all the causes you
name, but not only do NOT practice such philosophies, but for the most
part actively work to see that they are NOT enforced in their direct
spheres, whether that be employment, or in their private lives...

But they'll be the first to give lipservice to 'empowering minorities',
all the while making sure that any minorities in their personal vacinity
are NOT empowered...

This is versus liberals of the small-L variety, who don't go around
crowing about their philosophy, they just DO it...

In your statement above, I have found that it has been Conservatives of
the capital-C variety who give lipservice to 'whatever' (usually whatever
opposes what the Liberals of the capital-L variety are espousing)

But I have found conservatives of the small-c variety actually more
'empowering' of various minorities in their day-to-day dealings...but
they just DO it as a matter of course, they don't go about preaching
about it, nor trying to legislate that everyone else do the same...


Even today most women in public roles are praised for beautification
projects, interior decorating, hospital visits and involvement with
children--even Princess Di fits this bill.

Don't blame Conservatives/conservatives for this...this is the VERY role
that Liberals put women into...


Admittedly, most men have had trouble grasping what it is that "women
want", but it seems to me that those who define themselves as
"liberal" have made more of an effort to understand than most.

I have found the opposite...I have found Liberal males just want a woman
to be in a supportive role, while I have found conservatives (not the
capitalization) have been putting women into more roles that have REAL
substance (instead of just a title for show, with no real power)...

But most people who hung their hopes on the Liberals as the 'saviours of
women' have a problem seeing the real truth as to how those Liberals
really treat women...


Sounds like you have had a bad experience and have your own axe to
grind.

Not really...just day-to-day living, meeting men who espouse various
philosophies...and I've never met a male of the Liberal variety who EVER
gave up power to women in any sort of organization, and rarely in their
personal lives...in respect to women, such men espouse Liberalism as a
euphemism for 'free sex', but expect the women in their sphere to stay in
the background baking cookies and brewing coffee when anything of
substance is being planned...


June
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:

I hate this fascist bullshit. I think that you and people like you should
be rounded up and sent to places where you would be set straight. If you
refuse your families should be held until you get your ugly fascist heads
straight. I f none of this works, all you bastards should be deported or
hanged.

And what is NOT fascist regarding the above philosophy you espouse?

What is it about the Constitution and the writ of habeas corpus you don't
understand?



We have a world on the edge of catastrophe here and there is no place for
people like you holding back the progress necessary to save us all.

Legislating Orwellian double-speak is NOT progress...


Just because you conservative right wing nuts are sexually repressed and
defective, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.

Why do you feel a Constitutionalist is:

a)  conservative
b)  right wing
c)  sexually repressed
d)  'defective' (whatever that means)

FWIW, I also object to Liberals (capital "L") legislating speech in the
name of 'political correctness' and 'hate speech', and I am:

a)  liberal (small "L")
b)  a supporter of gay rights
c)  a supporter of a woman's right to an abortion
d)  a supporter of the ORIGINAL intention of Affirmative
Action (but not what Liberals -- capital "L" -- have
turned it into)


As for being repressed, sexually or otherwise, you need look no further
than your own mirror, since you seem to be the biggest proponent of
repression...


Keep your stupid opinions to yourself or get the fuck out of this
country.

What is it about freedom of speech that you have a problem with?

Since it is YOU who seems to desire a political and social system
diametrically opposed to what the U.S. Constitution specifies, then it
would seem that it is YOU who should be finding another country to
emigrate to...

I think the Taliban would welcome you to Afghanistan with open arms.


June

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 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
I don't work for the guvment and I hate semi-educated white morons
like you.

As opposed to a totally ignorant (presumably) white moron like you...


You are a paranoid idiot and shouldn't be living amidst
decent people trying to make the world a better place for all the
different kinds of people who make up this country.

Gee, this doesn't sound too fascist...

Sounds like the 'hate speech' you seem so willing to have legislated into
law...


Someday we'll take the bunch of you and ship you off to Idaho where
you can be with the rest of your bullet headed neo-nazi pig fuckin
brothers. Then while you moroons argue about whether the Fuhrer had
only one or maybe two balls, we will be free of you and able to build
the socialist paradise this country is waiting for.

I'd rather deal with 'neo-nazi pig fuckin brothers', than white Liberal
males like you, who are the worst racists and worst sexists I've ever
met...

After the revolution, comrade, how many women and people of color will
have positions of power in your regime?

And don't give me your platitudes and promises, tell me the TRUTH, how
many women and people of color are going to have active roles?


June

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Mike Moxley wrote:
 and shouldn't be living amidst
decent people trying to make the world a better place for all the
different kinds of people who make up this country.

Translation: All these "different kinds of people" who are socialists and
make up this country.  All others should not be living amongst us elitist
socialists.

Including women and people of color.  The worst racists and worst sexists
are white males who consider themselves (or at least publicly state that
they are) Liberal...take a close look at their associations, and
especially who is in the role of organizing/leading...except for a
handful of public figureheads, the real power lies with those same white
male Liberals...who are very good at giving lip service to 'empowering'
women and people of color, but have a very poor track record in actually
following thru...

So if Joshua and his bunch DO take over, look for a lot of white males
running the show, with women making the coffee and people of color taking
care of their children and their landscaping...


Who is "we'll"???  Socialists?
Who is "bunch of you"?  Non-socialists?  Those whom don't agree with you?

The rest of the human race...   ;-)


June
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
Yeah I bet you like this. You're the fool who studies philosophy at feet
of that loonytwat JanaButterfly.

With the above statement, Joshua proves my point regarding the typical
white male Liberal's attitude towards women...

He is unable to objectively, rationally, and unemotionally discuss
whatever philosophy 'JanaButterfly' espouses, but can only refer to her
in gross, pornographic terms.


You think that spouting Libertarian tripe makes you political? Getting
key people into government is being political. Minorities and Jews know
how to do it.

And by the above statement, he makes my point regarding the typical white
male Liberal's attitude towards 'minorities', as he displays their
typical view of 'minorities' as separate from themselves, and not as part
of 'the movement' these white male Liberals espouse...


You guys are pathetic. You have much more than you deserve.

And how do YOU presume to know how much anyone on this list has, let
alone what they 'deserve'?

What does ANYONE 'deserve'?

As a woman, I'm SURE [sputter, cough] that you will agree that I
represent a community which has been oppressed and victimized by you
white males for centuries (if not millenia), and therefore I DESERVE more
than you, who represents a class of humanity which has benefitted from
the labor of women and people of color without giving anything back in
return...therefore, I have the right to take away everything you have,
since I DESERVE it more...

[Now removing tongue from cheek]


PS: More in next post.

Spare us.


June

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Re: [CTRL] 010.000 HATE SPEECH

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
What is your basic gripe about "white liberals"?

My 'gripe' as you put it is not with white liberals, but white
Liberals

The 'capital L' variety are big on mouthing platitudes, but are the worst
racists and sexists around...

They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk...


I'm curious. I'm a
Native American (of European-Native American ancestry)...and I don't
remember "white conservatives" or "white libertarians," for that matter,
risking their lives on freedom rides to the south to end segregation in

That is because you remember liberals of the 'small L' variety...

BTW, I consider myself a white liberal (small L)...


I guess I must be one of the deluded masses... I have two daughters of
my own... I want them to be strong feminists...

I consider myself a feminist too...but not a Feminist, and I hope you're
not raising your daughters to be the 'capital F' variety...

okay, what's the difference between the 'capital' and 'small letter'
variety?  the 'capital' variety wear their designation like jewelry, an
adornment for show which is not an integral part of their being...

the 'small letter' variety just ARE...their philosophies are such an
integral part of their being, they just live it without thinking about it
(or feeling the need to crow about it and call attention to it)...

this applies to Conservatives/conservatives, too...


his property.  So, I'm one hundred percent for women being free of the
kind of crap they had to put up with back in the pre-60s era

Then you don't want them to marry a white male Liberal, who are worst
sexists than any conservative or Conservative I've ever met...


 On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, nurev wrote:
 Yeah I bet you like this. You're the fool who studies philosophy at feet
 of that loonytwat JanaButterfly.

 With the above statement, Joshua proves my point regarding the typical
 white male Liberal's attitude towards women...

I notice you don't take exception to Joshua, good Liberal that he is,
referring to women by a pornographic term for the female sex organ...

I guess you don't mind if your daughters, of Native American descent, are
called squaws then...even tho the term 'squaw' means female genitalia...


June
__
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/'  '\
   jgs

*---*
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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] New twist in O.J. saga

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jim Condit Jr. wrote:
Can anyone provide more details on the death of Ron Goldman's five friends?
I never heard of this.

I don't have details, but from what I remember, Goldman apparantly had
some sort of 'business deal' going on...either 'real estate' in a general
way, or talk of buying his own restaurant and going into business for
himself (remember, he was presented to the public by the media as 'an
aspiring actor')...and supposedly in the months following Goldman's
death, his 'business associates' (don't know if they were 'friends' as
such) met demises of an untimely nature...


planted the evidence -- it could have been planted for him to find. There
is at least one former Hollywood Detective (Gareth Wean) who has said from
the beginning that this was a frame-up of OJ with the complicity of some of
the powers that be in L.A.

I've always felt that while OJ was probably framed, this does not imply
that he is 'innocent'...

But there's layer upon layer of various 'illegalities' afoot here...


June
__
  .::o:.
 .::::o:.
 :o:__:::
 `:}_()_{:'
   `'//\\'`
/'  '\
   jgs

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] A COCKROACH REMEDY FOR SNOW OWL

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But beware, pennyroyal is a strong abortificant, so pregnant women should
 handle it or be exposed to it. 

I've heard some warnings from vets too.  It seems that it can cause similar
troubles to animals.  Prudy

I perhaps should have been more clear in my statement...no breeding
female of ANY species should be exposed to pennyroyal if there is a
chance she is pregnant, as the abortificant properties apply to all
species.

As for fleas, diatomaceous earth works, too...just sprinkle the
garden-grade variety on the animal (make sure it's garden-grade, which is
ground fine enough as to not harm the animal if it licks it off)...

This stuff works for garden slugs, too...it's basically like little
knives slicing into the bugs' bodies, so they go elsewhere...

This could also be the reason you didn't have fleas where you lived...
if the soil was comprised of enough silica, it would have been mighty
uncomfortable to most bugs...

But not, I believe, to roaches...they are so 'armored' that the glass
particles wouldn't effect them...and apparantly they can digest the stuff
with no problems...


June

*===*

 HAPPY SINTERKLAAS DAY!
 (may you only find treats in your shoe!)

 .-'-,
  ___`\/!/_=.'_
   \`'   `-x/_.'x-~
\   \`  |\
 hjw_`./_
   `--"---'


 Wanna jazz up your mail? 
 Try Flump's Ascii - www.xs4all.nl/~klr





*===*

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] A COCKROACH REMEDY FOR SNOW OWL

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, E Mael wrote:
 But beware, pennyroyal is a strong abortificant, so pregnant women should
 handle it or be exposed to it. 

I've heard some warnings from vets too.  It seems that it can cause
similar
troubles to animals.  Prudy


what is pennyroyal and where can it be obtained?

It's a plant (herb?), and it's oil can be bought wherever essential oils
are sold...try your local healthfood stores...


June

*===*

 HAPPY SINTERKLAAS DAY!
 (may you only find treats in your shoe!)

 .-'-,
  ___`\/!/_=.'_
   \`'   `-x/_.'x-~
\   \`  |\
 hjw_`./_
   `--"---'


 Wanna jazz up your mail? 
 Try Flump's Ascii - www.xs4all.nl/~klr





*===*

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Possible Santa Conspiracy Uncovered

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Dan S wrote:
 (CNNS,  12/05/98)   --   Sherman   Skolnick   III,   grandson  of
 Chicago-area researcher Sherman  Skolnick,  has  issued  a  press
 release  in  which the 7-year-old investigator insists that there
 is no Santa Claus.  "It's  all  a  plot  by adults.  They are all
 lying to us.  There is no Santa Claus," said the young Skolnick.

This is propaganda from the same labs that suggested the Easter Bunny
isn't real. Santa continues to bring me toys and partake of the snacks I
leave for him.

And SOMEONE left treats in my shoes last night...if not Sinterklaas
(Santa's original name, before Immigration anglicized it at Ellis
Island), then WHO?


Brian Redman is Santa Claus, and he's sick of bringing us gifts.

Not so much sick of bringing us gifts, just in desperate need of
vacationMrs. Claus has made arrangements for the both of them to get
away to Cancun after the first of the year...


June

*===*

 HAPPY SINTERKLAAS DAY!
 (may you only find treats in your shoe!)

 .-'-,
  ___`\/!/_=.'_
   \`'   `-x/_.'x-~
\   \`  |\
 hjw_`./_
   `--"---'


 Wanna jazz up your mail? 
 Try Flump's Ascii - www.xs4all.nl/~klr





*===*

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] New twist in O.J. saga

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
Does this explain the murder of Ron Goldman and five of his friends,
all connected to that restuarant--Mezaluna, or whatever?

I've always thought there was more to the story, and no, I'm not talking
about whether OJ did it or not, or whether there was organized crime (of
whatever flavor) involvement...

Namely, there were a fair amount of 'little things' which were easily
ignored by the public, the media, the prosecution...

Like, the whole reason for Goldman ostensibly going to Nicole Simpson's
was to return a pair of sunglasses...either Nicole's or her mother's, I'm
not sure...but it was reported that when the sunglasses were noticed to
be missing, that Nicole called Mezzaluna's and told them they'd find the
sunglasses in the gutter out in front of restaurant -- and that's
supposedly where they were found...

Now, these were supposed to be very expensive sunglasses...so it sounds
strange that they'd just lie there in front of the restaurant without
someone seeing them, and either stealing them, or turning them into the
restaurant staff...

So I always thought that the sunglasses story sounded like a convenient
cover to explain Goldman's presence at Nicole's

The time span for Goldman getting off work that night, going home and
taking a shower to ostensibly go nightclubbing after stopping at
Nicole's, getting dressed, and then arriving at Nicole's, has always
seemed a little too short...

The neighbors' explanations of being disturbed by a barking dog, and then
their actions afterwards, always seemed to me to be that of people who
for some reason were 'leaving something out'...

And no one's ever explained to me why the people who took in the dog
which was covered in blood, didn't think such a thing was unusual...
from their description, they didn't even check to see if the dog was
injured...

And it seems that everyone connected with OJ -- his kids, and that
'hanger on', Kato...well, it seems that they all have crystal clear
memories, and can account for every single second of that
evening...something which most people can't do under normal
circumstances, let alone traumatic ones...


June

*===*

 HAPPY SINTERKLAAS DAY!
 (may you only find treats in your shoe!)

 .-'-,
  ___`\/!/_=.'_
   \`'   `-x/_.'x-~
\   \`  |\
 hjw_`./_
   `--"---'


 Wanna jazz up your mail? 
 Try Flump's Ascii - www.xs4all.nl/~klr





*===*

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Long-Neck Women

[KA]

 -Caveat Lector-

Cleaning her entire neck brace took about 20 minutes, including time out
to gossip with Mah Nang and other long-neck women nearby who were trying
to sell souvenirs to some European tourists.

And how long does it take western females to 'attend to their toilet'?


As she spoke, a long-neck teenager displayed how itchiness under the
coils is a problem, especially in Thailand's humidity.

And let me tell you about itchiness under bras, especially underwired
ones, and especially in humid weather...


The teenage girl, sitting on a wooden bench in front of her hut, tugged
at the coils to lift them slightly from underneath near her collar, and
scratched herself under the lowest coils.

Sounds like how one sneaks a scratch under an underwired bra


It was impossible to determine if the tribe purposely stressed the
positive aspects of the tradition in an effort to attract tourists.

I doubt it...they don't view the neck coils as unusual or cruel, just
like we don't view underwired bras that way...

Or pantihose...

Or hotrollers...

Or starving oneself to achieve an artificial image of 'beauty' which is
arbitrarily contrived by one's society...


At Na Soi, meanwhile, the mood appeared relaxed and sometimes carefree
as young long-neck girls teased each other, rode a bicycle, and
gleefully admired themselves in postcards for sale.

If they can ride bicycles, it sounds like the neck rings neither restrict
nor constrict the wearer...


June

*===*

 HAPPY SINTERKLAAS DAY!
 (may you only find treats in your shoe!)

 .-'-,
  ___`\/!/_=.'_
   \`'   `-x/_.'x-~
\   \`  |\
 hjw_`./_
   `--"---'


 Wanna jazz up your mail? 
 Try Flump's Ascii - www.xs4all.nl/~klr





*===*

*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om