[CTRL] Autoreply: Re: [CTRL] Forwarded Post
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- The account x98 has been closed. Please contact the user directly for more information. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Autoreply: Re: [CTRL] RADICALS ON THE WEB IN WACO
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- The account x98 has been closed . A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] New Waco Video! Doyle's Boyz Exposed!
New Waco Video! Doyle's Boyz Exposed!by Carol A. ValentineCopyright, March, 2000Published by Public Action, Inc.X: A True Revelation is available from [EMAIL PROTECTED]===As you know, the US wants the American public to come to closure on theWaco Holocaust. And what better way to do this than to show that survivingDavidian Clive Doyle and the other Davidians have come to closure? Recallthat Clive's beautiful 18-year old daughter Shari was killed. If Clive cancome to closure on the Waco Holocaust while the murderers of his daughterstill walk free, shouldn't we be able to do the same?To this end, Clive and a number of patriots have stepped forward to showAmerica that we shouldn't hold grudges. With volunteer labor and donatedmaterials, Clive and the patriots -- let's call them the happy campers --are building a new Davidian church on the old killing fields while themurderers continue to run our country.You can see the happy campers at work building the new church.http://www.rebuildthechurch.com/See the dozens of American flags on the background panel, all flying rightside up? Ironic, since the 82 innocents were murdered under its shadow.Those happy campers sure are patriotic!;-)But now along comes a new Waco video which shows the truth of this come toclosure cover up effort. The subject of the video is a November 28, 1999,demonstration by a single man against the cover up church outside thegates of the Mt. Carmel Center.The protester had the foresight to ask a colleague to videotape thedemonstration. This video, called X: A True Revelation, is now availableto the public. When you get your copy, you will see that:* Clive Doyle objects to free speech on the cover-up church and threatensto call the McLennan County Sheriff's Department to remove the protester,* Clive Doyle challenges the protester to a fist fight,* The Sheriff's department sends A HELICOPTER and three squad cars toarrest the protester, who is unarmed! It's all there on the video!* The protester is arrested while demonstrating on public land outside theMt. Carmel Center,* During the confrontation, one of Clive's happy campers boasts that hehelped soak the American flag in the blood of the world.We know that the video addresses an issue of substance because the incidentit documents resulted in these remarkable incidents:* On March 12, when the protester was again outside the Mt. Carmel Center,he received a death threat from a Clive Doyle supporter who cocked a 9 mmsemi-automatic at him.* The sheriff's department refused to take a report of the assault, tellingthe man that you were warned to stay away from the Mt. Carmel Center.If something happens [that is, if the murder threat is actualized], we'llgo from there with it, the Sheriff's department said.* The sheriff's department threatened the protester with arrest if he everreturns to the area *outside* the Mt. Carmel Center to protest, saying thatdemonstrations outside the Mt. Carmel Center are against the law becausethe sheriff's department says so.X: A True Revelation has been produced by the protester, a man who callshimself Andrew X98.Believing that Clive Doyle was propagating David Koresh's teachings, Andrewcame to Waco three years ago to study the Bible with Clive. For threeyears he served as the watchman over the Mt. Carmel grounds. Andrewbrought with him an eclectic background in the study of religion andmysticism.* Keeping the Sabbath Holy *The Seventh Day Adventists, of course, take their very name from theimportance they attach to Saturday, the seventh day, the Sabbath of theOld Testament. The governing Scripture reads as follows:Exod.20[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work.[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thoushalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant,nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thygates:[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all thatin them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed thesabbath day, and hallowed it.Being Seventh Day Adventists, the Branch Davidians observe Saturday as theSabbath. Notice that the Scripture says that work on the Sabbath is notonly forbidden to the master, the servants, and the cattle, but that workis also forbidden to any stranger that is within thy gates.Of concern to this story is that, on Saturday, September 18, 1999, thehappy campers measured and staked the ground for the new church; Cliveworked with them. If Clive had been following Branch Davidian rules, hewould have not worked himself, nor would he have permitted the happycampers to work within the gates of the Mt. Carmel property.Andrew found out that the happy campers and Clive had worked on theSabbath. And since that day, Andrew has vociferously objected to the newstructure, calling it an insult to David Koresh
Re: [CTRL] FAKE WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIAN
Eric, How are you so mislead? I am the watchman appointed by the survivors. I have given my life to them and the Martyrs. I am protesting the placing of the Abomination That Maketh Desolate. You know that this is one of the signs of the coming of Christ. Do you have any idea about what is going on down here Biblically? I am peaceful. And will protest peacefully as before, but be assured that I will defend myself to the fullest in the same manner that David Koresh and Livingstone Fagan did, if attacked in any physical manner. In the video you SEE who is Violent. I am attacked by Clive Doyle and his fellow government agents. Many people have seen this video and all agree that the building of the new church is a government operation under the control of the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. What is wrong with the minds of the people of the country? Do you think that the oppression has stopped! or that you will put an end to it by praying? We are at WAR! Wars are not won by Feel Good delusions obtained through the Zionist media. Wars are won by fighting, as Christ had pointed out that when his Kingdom is of this world then would his servants FIGHT. These are the teachings of David Koresh. The Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco want us to come to closure on this, so it is Feel Good time in the minds of the sleeping masses. You are playing right in to the hands of your enemy. Hear the ALARM and wake up! You don't have to be a scholar to understand what I am saying, but the beast through the (ZOG) media has got us drunk with the wine of her fornication. We are all victims of mind control in this sense. Use the power of prayer to suspend this mental confusion and look at the clarity of what I am saying. The church was founded on the Sabbath, Saturday 18,1999. Also 99% of the Christians in this world believe that Sunday is the Sabbath, yet every Sunday work is being done. Do you believe in the Ten Commandments? Only those of Anti-Christ will support this Abomination. If a man who longs to be married falls in love with a woman and just before the wedding he finds out that she is a whore; Should he still marry her to satisfy his desires, or should he leave her because she is an Abomination to those that Love the Lord? I am The Watchman and I am telling you that this woman that you seek to marry is the cheapest of WHORES known to man, she will Make you Desolate! Lets discuss the teachings for which these people gave their lives. O.K.? Andrew The Watchman Waco Video: X A True Revelation $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] They were HACKED to death before the fire!http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html If you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. -Original Message-From: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Saturday, March 18, 2000 10:07 AMSubject: [apfn] Re: FAKE WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIANFrom: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED] CHURCHDate: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:12:04 -0600Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1Guess I'll be seeing you there, not to protest, but to remember allthose killed in the massacre at Waco, and to pray that it will neverhappen again. I am going as a Christian, a believer in God and Christ.I hope you protest peacefully, as not to disrupt the serious mattersthat will be going on at the rebuilt church. If you cared for theDavidians, both survivors and those killed in the massacre, you toowould be there to remember them, not protest against them. Eric Radtke[EMAIL PROTECTED]ali andrew wrote:FAKE WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIAN CHURCH From: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you no Shame! Only those of Anti-Christ will enter a church built on the Sabbath. ThisAbomination will make all those that enter it Desolate. I will be at the gateApril 19, 2000 to protest the continuing government control of Mt.Carmel byThe Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. I urge all those of Christto join me in this protest against this COVER-UP CHURCH. Andrew The Watchman Waco Video: X A True Revelation $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] They were HACKED to death before the fire! http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html If you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmelin New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in thesubject line. -Original Message- From: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shonda Ponder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 8:46 PM Subject: [apfn] WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIANCHURCH From: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED] History Made - Memorial Services to Be Held on April 19, 2000
[CTRL] FAKE WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIAN CHURCH
FAKE WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIAN CHURCH From: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you no Shame! Only those of Anti-Christ will enter a church built on the Sabbath. This Abomination will make all those that enter it Desolate. I will be at the gate April 19, 2000 to protest the continuing government control of Mt.Carmel by The Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. I urge all those of Christ to join me in this protest against this COVER-UP CHURCH. Andrew The WatchmanWaco Video: X A True Revelation $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED]They were HACKED to death before the fire!http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.htmlIf you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line.-Original Message-From: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: Shonda Ponder [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 8:46 PMSubject: [apfn] WACO MEMORIAL SERVICES TO BE HELD AT REBUILT DAVIDIAN CHURCH From: Eric Radtke [EMAIL PROTECTED] History Made Memorial Services to Be Held on April 19, 2000 in Waco,Texas Inside the New Memorial Church That Volunteers Built for AllThose KilledX Andrew Wrote:In The Name of Truth Most Gracious, Most Merciful.The WatchmanSubject: Protest UpdateDate: March 12, 2000This Sunday I went to Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas to protest the building of the new church . As many of you know this church was founded on the Sabbath, which was on a Saturday September 18,1999. Most people in this world believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday and yet they are building this church on that day. So no matter which day you believe is the Sabbath you must declare this church to be an Abomination. Know this; According to the teachings of David Koresh it is: The Abomination That Maketh Desolate!Many of you have already seen the new video that was, in part, shot at the beginning of this Protest on November 28, 1999. In the video X A True Revelation I was attacked, by Clive Doyle who is a government agent posing as a follower of David Koresh. For telling people the truth of his crimes against God he had me arrested. They sent a helicopter gun ship and squad cars to take me into custody. Since then I have continued my protest on the days of my choosing. March 12th was the first 'Sunday I protested there since the attack by Clive Doyle and the builders. When I arrived outside the gate I was met by a visitor who asked about the reasons for my protest. Once I explained it to him he, like all other Christians, swore that he would in NO WAY support this sinful project. While speaking to him two trucks came from the building site just as they do in the video. Those that have seen the video know how violent these people are. Anyone with knowledge of this current government church project call The Phoenix Project can imagine what I expected. Since there were no videos there to protect me I thought that there would be trouble.The truck drove up to where I was and James Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] stepped out. This is the same man in the video that physically attacked me with Clive Doyle. Mr.Ritter extended his hand in peace and apologized for his behavior and for Clive's. He said that things just got out of hand. Yeah they got out of hand all right, and I got put in Jail! So, it seems that he has been told by his handlers that they are to use different tactics since this video has been released. This is a weak attempt to stop the truth, but the video shows them for who they are Members of the Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco.At about 5:00 that afternoon I was approached by Scott the watchman for their church. He had a passenger, white male in his mid twenties. He drove up next to me and pulled a Semi-automatic 9 mm pistol, waved it at me cocked the hammer and smiled. This is a crime! A clear assault! I called the police to report it. You will not believe what happened next.After giving the Waco police a report #00-15973 I was told that since the crime occurred outside of Waco I would have to report it to the McLennan County Sheriffs Department. This I did and was put in contact with Officer Keon. He is the cop that arrested me in the video. Officer Keon said that he was too busy to come out to my house to take a report! He was suppose to be here today, Tuesday the 14th. When he didn't show up I called again. This time when he called back he said that I had NO RIGHT to be there and that he will arrest me if I protest there again! Also he stated that he would not take a report from me!!Should I lay down like a good doggie? I will lay down only if they are cowards enough to beat me down. I am The Watchman and I will sound the alarm!Please look at this for what
[CTRL] Waco protest Update 3-12-00
In The Name of Truth Most Gracious, Most Merciful. The Watchman Subject: Protest Update Date: March 12, 2000 This Sunday I went to Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas to protest the building of the new church . As many of you know this church was founded on the Sabbath, which was on a Saturday September 18,1999. Most people in this world believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday and yet they are building this church on that day. So no matter which day you believe is the Sabbath you must declare this church to be an Abomination. Know this; According to the teachings of David Koresh it is: The Abomination That Maketh Desolate! Many of you have already seen the new video that was, in part, shot at the beginning of this Protest on November 28, 1999. In the video X A True Revelation I was attacked, by Clive Doyle who is a government agent posing as a follower of David Koresh. For telling people the truth of his crimes against God he had me arrested. They sent a helicopter gun ship and squad cars to take me into custody. Since then I have continued my protest on the days of my choosing. March 12th was the first 'Sunday I protested there since the attack by Clive Doyle and the builders. When I arrived outside the gate I was met by a visitor who asked about the reasons for my protest. Once I explained it to him he, like all other Christians, swore that he would in NO WAY support this sinful project. While speaking to him two trucks came from the building site just as they do in the video. Those that have seen the video know how violent these people are. Anyone with knowledge of this current government church project call The Phoenix Project can imagine what I expected. Since there were no videos there to protect me I thought that there would be trouble. The truck drove up to where I was and James Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] stepped out. This is the same man in the video that physically attacked me with Clive Doyle. Mr.Ritter extended his hand in peace and apologized for his behavior and for Clive's. He said that things just got out of hand. Yeah they got out of hand all right, and I got put in Jail! So, it seems that he has been told by his handlers that they are to use different tactics since this video has been released. This is a weak attempt to stop the truth, but the video shows them for who they are Members of the Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco. At about 5:00 that afternoon I was approached by Scott the watchman for their church. He had a passenger, white male in his mid twenties. He drove up next to me and pulled a Semi-automatic 9 mm pistol, waved it at me cocked the hammer and smiled. This is a crime! A clear assault! I called the police to report it. You will not believe what happened next. After giving the Waco police a report #00-15973 I was told that since the crime occurred outside of Waco I would have to report it to the McLennan County Sheriffs Department. This I did and was put in contact with Officer Keon. He is the cop that arrested me in the video. Officer Keon said that he was too busy to come out to my house to take a report! He was suppose to be here today, Teusday the 14th. When he didn't show up I called again. This time when he called back he said that I had NO RIGHT to be there and that he will arrest me if I protest there again! Also he stated that he would not take a report from me!! Should I lay down like a good doggie? I will lay down only if they are cowards enough to beat me down. I am The Watchman and I will sound the alarm! Please look at this for what it is. These people that are building this Abomination are agents of the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. The government remains in total control of this site of mass murder. Do not be fooled by the Waco Suits for Waco Suckers They are a smoke screen. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws.html This Abomination must not be permitted to continue! Speak against it! Do not support it with money! And for the sake of your own soul do not enter it! Andrew The Watchman Waco Video: X A True Revelation $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] They were HACKED to death before the fire!http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html If you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line.
[CTRL] Justifiable Homicide 2-28-93
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I wander if a "MAN" like Livingstone Fagan would pray in a church founded on the Sabbath? I wonder if ANY Christian would! I wouldn't!Would you? That is the type of church Clive Doyle and fiends founded on Saturday Sabbath September 18, 1999 and are building each and every Sunday, which is the Sabbath to most Christians in this world. This Abomination is being built on the very ground where the blood of Fagan's family was shed by The Bill Clinton Murderers the Children of Waco! What more *EVIDENCE* do we need to know that Clive Doyle is an agent of falsehood? If the laws of God mean nothing to you then a great deal more is needed so that you can stay asleep. Christians need no more than what is before us! Wake up and hear the alarm of "The Watchman". We are in the 70 week prophesy! There will soon be an Earth Quake here in Waco! Andrew "The Watchman" Livingstone Fagan / Mar-09-00 13:50 Thrown to the Lions It has been brought to my attention that a "statement" I made in a deposition early February has caused a stir. It concerned something I did after members of my community were fired upon and killed in the assault against us, February 28th 1993, by agents of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. My statement made clear that I, after being fired upon myself, I likewise responded in an act of self-defense. I believe this was unavoidable given the position we were placed in. On the face of it, my making this statement might to some seem foolish! Indeed I myself felt a great degree of reluctance when the Spirit moved me to speak concerning it as the deposition itself showed. Nevertheless, I could not resist The Spirit that hitherto had guided us as a community. Perhaps I should say something about her. We refer to her as Wisdom. In the Hebrew she is known as Shekinah the Spirit of God. She's referred to as the Spirit of Truth. She is further known to those of our community as the heavenly mother. The female side of the Godhead. Proverbs 8 speaks expressly concerning her. Versus 22-56 highlights her nature and origin with God from everlasting at Mt. Carmel we became intimately connected with her to the point we were perceptive of her nuances by which we were made able to perceive the meanings and truth of the scriptures. This was particularly in regard to the matters concerning the book sealed with Seven Seals spoken of in the book of Revelation. Without her we would not be who we are. Being led by her we are not always cognitive of the end design of her leading. Nevertheless, over time we had come to trust her. Walking by faith with her in a relationship of mutual trust. There were times the prospects of following her lead seemed not to our immediate liking and we sometimes resisted. This was true of David Koresh too through whom she had brought much truth to our attention. Nevertheless, we know in our hearts the righteousness of her counsel and came to trust her though sometimes hesitantly. In a way it was like when as a child your mother asked of you something not to your liking. You end up complying though not cheerily. Proverbs 1:20-33 again captures something of her personage. She is known to us- a very real presence. Christ made reference to her in her context as Wisdom and her children in Mt, 11:16-19, note verse 19. Growing to know and trust her guidance was something that happened over time and experiences with her. She became our law and governance, known to us as the Law of the Spirit. How does all of this relate to the matters at hand? Well, it was by her that the Mt. Carmel Community came into being. It was by her that David Koresh was made able to reveal the book seal sealed with Seven Seals. It was via her workings we sought to prevent what eventually occurred on February 28th through April 19th 1993. When this effort failed it was by her we were able to mount a defense. During the negotiations it was by her that David was directed. By her he was informed of God to "wait" and subsequently to write down the matters he did in the closing days before he was killed. In the aftermath and up to today we have continued to trust her lead. It was by her I was prompted to make the statement in the deposition reluctant though I was on account of my distrust of the system. It is by her that I now write this paper. What started the stir was a news article containing my statement written by Dick J Reavis, a journalist with The San Antonio Express News. In his article he draws attention to certain matters that have a bearing on the credibility of the government and its system of "justice". In effect, he shows it not to be true, but in fact a lie posing as truth. You will appreciate that in my deposition my statement was accepted unequivocally as being true. Ms. Hagen and those present did not believe for one instance that it was otherwise. And rightly so, because it was spoken in the
Re: [CTRL] waco Protest update
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- No. I am making current information available to those that care about the truth of what this filthy government did and is doing. I wonder why you have nothing but sales pitches and praise for McNaughty's Government film? Hm! Spooky isn't it? Andrew "The Watchman" Waco Video: "X A True Revelation" $10.98 [EMAIL PROTECTED] They were HACKED to death before the fire! http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html If you do not want updates on the current Government control of Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem Waco Texas, reply to this post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. -Original Message- From: Tara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:14 PM Subject: [CTRL] Ali has a video for sale! You wrote: Now you are using this list to sell a video. Prosletyzing, and using the list for commercial purposes. (That is Ali's email address.) Because I spoke truth: In The Name of Truth Most Gracious, Most Merciful. "The Watchman" Subject: Protest Update Date: March 12, 2000 This Sunday I went to Mt.Carmel in "New Jerusalem" Waco Texas to protest the building of the new "church" . As many of you know this "church was founded on the Sabbath, which was on a Saturday September 18,1999. Most people in this world believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday and yet they are building this "church" on that day. So no matter which day you believe is the Sabbath you must declare this "church" to be an Abomination. Know this; According to the teachings of David Koresh it is: "The Abomination That Maketh Desolate"! Many of you have already seen the new video that was, in part, shot at the beginning of this Protest on November 28, 1999. In the video "X A True Revelation" I was attacked, by Clive Doyle who is a government agent posing as a follower of David Koresh. For telling people the truth of his crimes against God he had me arrested. They sent a helicopter gun ship and squad ca rs to take me into custody. Since then I have continued my protest on the days of my choosing. March 12th was the first 'Sunday" I protested there since the attack by Clive Doyle and the builders. When I arrived outside the gate I was met by a visitor who asked about the reasons for my protest. Once I explained it to him he, like all other Christians, swore that he would in NO WAY support this sinful project. While speaking to him two trucks came from the building site just as they do in the video. Those that have seen the video know how violent these people are. Anyone with knowledge of this current government church project call "The Phoenix Project" can imagine what I expected. Since there were no videos there to protect me I thought that there would be trouble. The truck drove up to where I was and James Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] stepped out. This is the same man in the video that physically attacked me with Clive Doyle. Mr.Ritter extended his hand in peace and apologized for his behavior and for Clive's. He said that things just "got out of hand". Yeah they got out of hand all right, and I got put in Jail! So, it seems that he has been told by his "handlers that they are to use different tactics since this video has been released. This is a weak attempt to stop the truth, but the video shows them for who they are "Members of the Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco". At about 5:00 that afternoon I was approached by "Scott" the watchman for their "church". He had a passenger, white male in his mid twenties. He drove up next to me and pulled a Semi-automatic 9 mm pistol, waved it at me cocked the hammer and smiled. This is a crime! A clear assault! I called the police to report it. You will not believe what happened next. After giving the Waco police a report #00-15973 I was told that since the crime occurred outside of Waco I would have to report it to the McLennan County Sheriffs Department. This I did and was put in contact with Officer Keon. He is the cop that arrested me in the video. Officer Keon said that he was too busy to come out to my house to take a report! He was suppose to be here today, Teusday the 14th. When he didn't show up I called again. This time when he called back he said that I had NO RIGHT to be there and that he will arrest me if I protest there again! Also he stated that he would not take a report from me!! Should I lay down like a good doggie? I will lay down only if they are cowards enough to beat me down. I am "The Watchman" and I will sound the alarm! Please look at this for what it is. These people that are building this Abomination are agents of the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. The government remains in total control of this site of mass murder. Do not be fooled by the "Waco Suits for Waco Suckers" They are a smoke screen. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws.html This
[CTRL] Protest Rebuilding the Church at Waco
-Original Message-From: mary [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:20 AMSubject: [apfn] Rebuild the Church at Waco From: mary [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Don't Rebuild the church plan to Protest the chapel at Waco Can you help this Sabbath? Stop this ongoing crime against the laws of God Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum: DeathDirectory of Exhibits Catalogue of Evidence Search Museum TextRemains of a two year old Davidian child, Mt. Carmel Doe 51A, photographed on May 7, 1993, just 18 days after alleged date of death. The remains have never been identified. Of all the forms of murder, none is more monstrous than that committed by a state against its own citizens . . . The homicidal state shares one trait with the solitary killer--like all murderers, it trips on its own egoism and drops a trail of clues which, when properly collected, preserved, and analyzed are as damning as a signed confession left in the grave. --Forensic anthropologist Clyde Snow, speaking before the May, 1984 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He used his skills to expose the atrocities committed by governments. (Quoted by Christopher Joyce and Eric Stover in Witnesses from the Grave, Pg. 217). From the evidence we have examined so far, we hypothesize that the story of the Waco Holocaust is a story of at least three crimes: Mass murder Destruction of evidence Fabrication of evidence and perjury The stories are simple in concept, but complex in details. Mass Murder: The nation's top military and paramilitary agencies are involved in one of the most horrendous mass murders in the nation's history. These are: the Pentagon's Special Operations Command and the select forces that serve under its auspices; the Department of the Treasury's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF); and the Department of Justice's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Among their victims are many mothers and children. This is the stuff that could topple a government . . . How to hide Crime Number One? Destruction of Evidence: The times, causes, and circumstances of death must be disguised. The mothers and children's bodies are burned, mutilated, and dismembered. Almost every technique in the book is used to launder these bodies, applied as if by the hands of experts. How to hide Crime Number Two? Fabrication of Evidence and PerjuryA cover story is invented. It runs, in part, as follows: The mothers and children sought shelter from the C/S gas in the concrete room, and the structure collapsed on them and killed them. The bodies are laundered to disguise the real causes, times, and circumstances of death, and the concrete room is slated for demolition. Control of the crime scene and the bodies is given to incompetent and compliant local yokels. The locals can provide a plausible cover for the destruction of evidence already effected, and, through incompetence, effect even more destruction of evidence through their independent actions. FBI agents and other helpers are salted among the local yokels to ensure the results.But some things go wrong along the way. First, the demolition job fails: The concrete room does not collapse. Instead, only a two-foot hole is punched in the roof. Second, the FBI panders to the news services, permitting photography from the air and the ground. The widely publicized pictures contradict the cover story. The photos show the concrete room in pretty good shape, thank you, except for the two-foot hole. But it's too late to change the cover story. Third, FBI personnel forget the old adage, Loose lips sink ships. They talk too much, and reporters dutifully print their ramblings. Is it news when leading FBI agent Jeff Jamar speculates on the location of the bodies before they are found? Only when he is right. And he is. The damaged roof is permitted to contaminate the remains. False information is placed in the Autopsy Reports, along with observations about the remains which provide evidence of crimes One and Two. Some of the locals testify at the Davidians' trial. They variously tell the truth, or hedge, or commit perjury, but they do give away the show. The hypotheses offered in this gallery are based upon a preliminary analysis of evidence on exhibit. Summary of Preliminary Findings Death: Directory of Exhibits Death: Catalogue of Evidence Next: Summary of Preliminary Findings Home: Museum Entrance Search: Museum Text Alert! Learn about the continuing attempts to cover up the Waco Holocaust. Read a short or more detailed review of the disinformation video Waco: The Rules of Engagement, Waco Documentary Is A Hoax! Learn the truth about
[CTRL] Don't Rebuild the Church at Waco!
Don't Rebuild the Church A plan to protest the chapel at Waco. Can you help stop the crimes of the Davidian Impostors this Sabbath? Protest update: Today some of the people that learned that this church is being built on the Sabbath, refused to even enter the property. All others vowed that they would never pray in it nor would they give a penny to it. Amen Directions to the Mount Carmel Site Just east of WACO Texas Take I-35 towards WACO, Texas Get Off at North Loop 340(also known as: Lake Shore Dr.) Head East on North Loop 340 until you get to Farm Rd 2491 Turn Left onto Farm Road 2491 Go 8 to 9 miles until you get to the Y in the road. Veer Left at the Y and continue about 1/2 mile. Where you should see TWO BLUE WATER tanks. Turn Left onto EE Ranch Road and continue for about 1/2 mile to the site located on the right. Andrew The Watchman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today!
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- This was probably your attitude seven years ago when the "Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco" were torturing men women and Babies because they would not submit to the illegitimate authority of Babylon.. as you have. Andrew -Original Message- From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest Today! -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- 3/5/00 I wish that religion could produce as prodigious a supply of fresh clean water, as well as it produces such an overflowing of lunatics. Joshua2 = ali andrew wrote: In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful An Open Letter to "Clive Doyle" I am coming to New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel) to declare the"Truth" about the crimes that you are committing against the Martyrs and against the laws of God. I will not trespass on the property, because as I said on November 28,1999 when you had me arrested for speaking the Truth, "I don't want to come on that land be be a part of the "Synagogue Unto Satan" that you are building there for the Bill Clinton Murders of the Children of Waco. I will be unarmed, because my God is enough of a protector from the EVIL you and the KKK spread. I will again raise the flag of Christ again against your flag that is soaked in the blood of the Children of the World. If you attack it again I will defend it again...and again you will lose. I will be handing out flyers that state: X XX The Abomination That Maketh Desolate The foundation of this "church" was laid on the Sabbath by Clive Doyle This is a violation of the Laws of God and a Slander of the Martyrs *Now that you know "DO NOT" enter it or support it* For more information about the current government control of New Jerusalem Contact Andrew "The Watchman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/index.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] The Destroyed Pagan Altar
This is an update on the Current Situation at Mt.Carmel in New Jerusalem, Waco Texas. From: The Watchman Charles Pace, You are a disgrace to the Word of God and to the memory of the Martyrs. I received this forward from Ron Goins. How dare you ask a True seeker of God to help you rebuild your Pagan Alter unto Satan your god? Ever since I came to New Jerusalem that alter has been attacked by the children of God. Praises are due to Tina for bring that filth to an end. I am told that you have tried to rebuild it but that ONE of the stones from the original is missing. I was shown that stone some time ago when I asked what was to become of it, not wanting it near me, I was assured that it would be pulverized. AMEN. If you send the police here to question me as to who had it I will tell them the that it was Clive Doyle. And that he sees you in truth... that you are a cancer in New Jerusalem because you slander the Martyrs and are in your person an Abomination. Liars always change the subject when they are confronted with the truth. Ron wrote a testimony concerning my character and the corruption you are involved in by building a church on the Sabbath. Why not speak to what he has witnessed to? The TRUTH speaks louder than your lies. Andrew From: Charles Pace [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re:Repairing the AltarDate: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:43:31 PSTIn the Spirit of Truth,When do you plan on repairing the damage to the altar and the sign your friend Tina caused. Actions speak louder than words!!!Charles -Original Message-From: ron goins [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:54 PMSubject: Re: Building a Church on the Sabbath Peace and Blessings to all of an open mind; I've received this request by E-mail from an interested party and thought to answer it in the most logical way. I am often a poor vessel for the truth since I try to look at situations from many angles. From: John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:36:42 -0600So whats up with Andrew and this new church? What did he mean the killers of the children of Waco and the abomination that maketh desolate. Im familiar with the verse. Not seeing the connection. ~ interested party. IJN Well it's a long story starting with the personal relationship between Andrew and Clive Doyle,the interim leader of the survivors group in Waco. Andrew came to Waco in December of 1996 from Philadelphia, Pa. He has a long history of fighting authority (especially abusive authority). April 19 1993 was a traumatic date for this entire country but especially traumatic for those sensitive to issues of human rights and religious freedoms. All of Andrew's circuits were fired that day , seeing men , women and children consumed in a fire after being held hostage 51 days by the armed forces of The Great Satan ,the U.S. government. Familiar with many aspects of previous misdeeds of the past administrations and somewhat knowledgeable of comparative religion, Andrew made a study of this event. It would mark the rest of his life. I knew Andrew at this time and saw many of the same things and puzzled at the same mysteries. Why the raid ? Why the siege ? Why the assault? What had these people done to deserve this gross injustice? Andrew spoke often of finding out the facts regarding Waco, but like must of us never made the trip down here to find out. Until an accident on his motorcycle left him injured and unemployed, Andrew probably would have worked and studied at home, but this accident was advantageous to Andrew's vision quest, and he decided to face his life and his life-long demons on the road. Upon Andrew'a arrival he was faced with not only his issues of personal survival , but with issues related to the conditions faced by the survivors and the land (Mt. Carmel) itself. He lived in his van, knew nobody, had very little resources, but with will and determination he pitched in to the lives of people he felt a strong common bond with. He worked on the land, attended Sabbath meetings, guarded the often vandalized property overnight for weeks at a time.He had many questions at this time related to the history of the land, and the people who lived there. Not only the Branch Davidians but as far back as the original native tribes. He brought these questions and more to the survivors. Andrew learned much in his research and in his studies with Clive Doyle (though Clive might say that Andrew came in with certain fixed ideas and chose what might fit them (also true), and was in constant debate with any and all he might talk to . So Andrew and Clive may have been called friends at that point. Of course there will always be points of difference
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?
It is like I said to you before on other list that you respond to my posts on You Spooks make me sick.! But being sickening is your job You are good at it. I too am good at my job. What is my job? Well, for now it is being ha Watchman, but in the near future it will be Isa 13. :-) Andrew -Original Message-From: Tara [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Sunday, March 05, 2000 4:16 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?-Caveat Lector- A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org//A -Cui Bono?-Now you are the Watchman! And more prosletyzing! Will it ever stop?Tara-Original Message-From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]OnBehalf Of ali andrewSent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:08 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?Peace and Blessings Alan,NO! I am NOT happy. I am broken hearted at this crime against God and theMartyrs. I will lift up a loud CRY. For I am the WatchmanIsa.58[1] Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew mypeople their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.The Sabbath is spoken of 197 times in the Holy Bible. The people that werekilled at New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel). by the forces of Babylon kept thatSabbath, they .A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/ADECLARATION DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid mattersand 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outrightfraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effectsspread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial andnazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.Archives Available at:http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.htmlhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Om
[CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?
Peace and Blessings Alan, NO! I am NOT happy. I am broken hearted at this crime against God and the Martyrs. I will lift up a loud CRY. For I am the Watchman Isa.58[1] Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. The Sabbath is spoken of 197 times in the Holy Bible. The people that were killed at New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel). by the forces of Babylon kept that Sabbath, they love not their live even unto death. They honored the Words of Lord of the worlds. Who would build this church on the ground that ran red with the blood of men, woman and children for the word of God? The only ones that could do such a sinful act before the eyes of the people of the world and God are those that have forgotten the Book. Exod.20 [8] Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. There is no excuse for this for this action. For the past three years I have lived at New Jerusalem where the land has been desolate accept for my care. For seven years it has been a waist land. Now that the Beast has decided to make a show. He puts his tabernacle where David's was and calls the foolish to honor it. It is an Abomination that will, according to the Word of the Lord in the Seventy Week prophesy, be totally destroyed. Da 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. Da 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. David taught that he was the Daily. We know thatb means a sacrfice. He was working to open the Sixth Seal. So naturally after the taking away of the Daily there is to be Seventy Weeks just before the reserection in Daneil 12. Da 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. According to the teachings for which these people gave their lives we are about to experience the terror of the Reserection. [12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Andrew -Original Message-[EMAIL PROTECTED]From: Alan Bacon To: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 1:15 AMSubject: Re: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath? Funny how simple it is for people to trash God andthen wonder why the world's going to hell.Funny how we believe what the newspapers say,but question what the Bible says.Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have tobelieve, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.Or is it scary?Funny how someone can say I believe in God butstill follow Satan (who, by the way,also believes inGod).Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' throughe-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when youstart sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely throughcyberspace, but the publicdiscussion of Jesus is suppressed in the schooland workplace.FUNNY, ISN'T IT?Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be aninvisible Christian the rest ofthe week.Are you laughing?Funny how when you go to forward this message,you will not sent it to many on your address listbecause you're not sure what they believe,or what they will think of you for sending it tothem.Funny how I can be more worried about what otherpeople think of me than what God thinks of me.Are you
[CTRL] Finishing Off the FAKE Branch Davidians
Dear Folks, There has been a great deal of misinformation about Waco and New Jerusalem where 82 human beings were hacked to death before the fire by the Bill Clinton murderers of the Children of Waco. The media which is Zionist controlled, is more guilty than the pigs that did the slaughtering, because they continue to murder the minds of the people. The article bellow is an example of this psychopathic component of our society. This is our National shame! If we do nothing about these children of darkness they will be our damnation. I am the Watchman for the Martyrs. I am sounding an ALARM. The new church is an Abomination because the foundation was laid on the Sabbath. For sounding this alarm I have been attacked and slandered, even thrown in jail. I will not be silent! I will declare this truth even in my death and when I stand before my Lord I will declare the truth continually. The FAKE Davidians that are occupying New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel) will not tell you the truth of what David taught. 1.Christ returns to Waco 2.There will be an Earth quake here soon, followed by a great flood. 3. The Seventy Week Prophesy is to be fulfilled at this time. 4. Koresh comes from Iran to destroy this government and set up the Kingdom of God. Why don't they warn the people? It is simple these are the people that Murdered 82 human beings to keep you from hearing this truth. The writer below Sharleen A.K.A. Janice A.K.A. Clinton Mouth Piece, is an example of the ZOG agents of the Bill Clinton Murders of the Children of Waco. Know this that the Government is still very much in control down here.or do you think that they are sorry for what they did. The Zionist Media are working over time on our minds in hopes of capturing our souls. Their only problem is that we are not all sleeping and will fight them until the return of the Lord!!! The Philadelphian, Andrew Sharleen Wrote: All of this makes me very angry. And angrier still, that I cannot do anything to make this mess below stop. How DARE the KKK even show their faces at Mt. Carmel! They were at the roadblock during the siege, telling agents they were more than willing to help out, ( help attack the church, so the standoff would end), saying, We're volunteering our services, we're just sick of seeing it drag on so long. THEN they contact Mt. Carmel survivors 6 years later to offer help of another kind they want to help rebuild!? The survivors told them their help was not appreciated nor wanted. Cheers to them!But now, it appears KKK has been threatening people and the church with fire!Another person referred to in this letter below, (the attacks to e-mail addresses), has been banned from Waco Tragedy News for trying to spread his poison and general harassment of Mt. Carmel survivors and supporters. His ranting was of a 'mental patient' variety, and he has been arrested several times on Mt. Carmel property.Unfortunately, he has not been banned permanently from Mt. Carmel itself, and continues to be a thorn in their side. I commend Judith for writing this, and showing the rest of America, just how the abuse continues to this day.I pray for you all.~Sharlene~ Finishing Off the Branch Davidians by Judith Vinson There is any number of ways to kill people. They can be shot, burned alive, gassed or otherwise condemned to some kind of hell. If the observation that hell is the loss of hope, then the surviving Branch Davidians are destined for Hell. Apparently, for some, their departure will not be soon enough. Six months ago, there were about a hundred Americans from all over this country who decided to rebuild a modest church for the twenty surviving Branch Davidians. For the most part those survivors are elderly. Two are in there eighties. Some have been badly burned, with hands scarred into almost useless claws, or minus all their fingers, as in the case of one young girl who was 16 at the time. They have no families now, some no homes, and most are unemployable due to age or disabilities. When asked how they might be helped, they said they only hoped one day to have a little church in which to worship. It seemed a reasonable request considering this was America. A bank account was set up at Bank of America in Waco, Texas, with the name, Rebuildthechurch.com. At the time, the bank's name seemed more than appropriate. Rebuildthechurch.com was also the name of a web page where donors around the country might be shown pictures that have been put up every week showing the progress on the church. For six months now, donations have been received through that account. So far, the total from all sources has been $76,859.00. All spent on materials. Heroic volunteers who have given their Sundays for the last twenty-four weeks have donated the labor. One American hitch hiked all the way from West Virginia to donate a week of labor. Two weeks ago, the donations stopped when
Re: [CTRL] Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?
I am not proselytizing. I am informing you of a very important development in a current situation. Andrew -Original Message-From: Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 9:37 AMSubject: Re: [CTRL] Who would Build a church on the Sabbath? Whatever happened to the rule against proselytizing on this list? June
Re: [CTRL] Day by Day
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I agree. I have lived here in Waco for the last three years studying the teachings of David Koresh. The major players involved at the decision making level were from Baylor. If you look at its beginning and the writings of Braun in the "Iconoclast" you will see the filth on which this cesspool was founded. And what can come from a cesspool but scum! It is said in Waco, by Sam Naive, an historian in his eighties that "Baylor is the registration center for all those destined for hell". :-) Andrew -Original Message- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Day by Day -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Baylor College is heavily CIA connected. Implicated in GWS conspiracy, and others. It's also near the military base where the delta-murder commandos that were illegally sic'd on American citizens @waco were based. Based on the high level of unmitigated trash posted by shannon, I'd say this one is par for the shannon course. Get a clue, budman. Dave Hartley http://www.asheville-computer.com/dave -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of William Shannon Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 8:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Day by Day -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/29/00 9:11:58 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill, Please cite your proof that Koresh was a child murder/rapist. Hmmm...I'll try though you'll dispute the source (undoubtedly)... PRELIMINARY STATEMENT CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS ON WACO Bruce Duncan Perry, M.D., Ph.D. The Child Trauma Programs A Partnership of: Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Children's Hospital *This is an Academy version of testimony of Dr. B.D. Perry, before the Subcommitee on National Security, International Affairs, and Criminal Justice of the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight and the Subcommittee on Crime of the Committee on the Judiciary at the Oversight Hearings on Federal Law Enforcement Conduct in Relation to the Branch Davidian Compound near Waco, Texas, and appended documents, Congressional Record, July, 1995. ABUSIVE CHILDREARING PRACTICES AT RANCH APOCALYPSE Destructive characteristics of this setting included undermining traditional parent-child relationships by David Koresh. Attachments to parent figures were continually undermined and replaced with inappropriate dependence upon a central figure, David Koresh. Continuous undermining of other relationships, including sibling relationships, husband and wife relationships, and friendships was pervasive. Any attachment judged to be more important to an individual than the attachment to God or David was undermined. By 1992, these children were taught to view David Koresh as their father, and later, these children were taught to consider David as God (see slides). In the context of this evolving theology, Koresh's views became increasingly restrictive, unpredictable and harsh for the children living at Ranch Apocalypse (see Attachment 7). These children had a set of inappropriate and age-inappropriate behaviors and significant gaps in general understanding, reflecting the idiosyncratic teaching practices present in the compound. For example, very young children, including a six year old girl, knew an incredible amount about weapons, while they knew almost nothing about other common age-appropriate concepts. In one example, we had a room with a variety of toys, including a small bolt action toy rifle. Invariably, in the first visit to the room, each child first went over and picked up the rifle. In one interview, a young girl went over, picked up the rifle, pulled the bolt back, looked down the barrel and said with disgust, "This isn't a real gun." It is clear that these children were significantly traumatized by previous harsh and inappropriate disciplinary techniques including severe corporal punishment, extended isolation (overnight), severe food restrictions and separation from primary caretakers. These children were continually exposed to harsh, capricious, and humiliating disciplinary techniques. Children expected to be beaten for events such as spilling milk. Infants were severely spanked for 'misbehaving'. In addition, these children were threatened with death if they revealed aspects of life inside the compound to the 'non-believers'. As is typical when an abusive adult threatens a child, they were told that 'they will not understand our special ways'. These children were convinced that David Koresh would return from the grave and punish them if they betrayed the Davidians by interacting with, or disclosing to, the 'bad guys' (law enforcement, non-believers, 'Babylonians'). Koresh was exploitive and manipulative of these children and exposing
Re: [CTRL] Indy: NO MORE WACOS - Exclusive
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- So here we have it another opportunity to sell the FAKE Waco Government video to the American people through the Zionist media. They will use every opportunity to effect your mind. And if there is no opportunity then they will make one such as this. Do you think for a moment that this is not being staged at this sensitive time? Andrew -Original Message- From: SierratimesAlert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 6:16 PM Subject: Indy: NO MORE WACOS - Exclusive http://www.SierraTimes.com SierraTimes.com Update... Local Talk Show Host Makes Defiant Stand. Breaking... Sierra Times Breaking News By: J. Johnson March 4, 2000 16:15 Pacific Time Indianapolis A crowd estimated at over 1000 people from across the nation attended the Rally for Religious Liberty in hopes of saving the Indianapolis Baptist Temple. Greg Dixon, Pastor of the Temple, stated to the crowd and to the government, Were not here to tell the government that we re tax exempt. Were here to tell them that Churches don't pay taxes. Federal Judge Barker reversed her own ruling, and ordered the Baptist Temple to pay $5.9 million in taxes and penalties to the Internal Revenue Service. This tax, according to the Church leaders and its congregation will not be paid. Stan Solomon, a well-respected, local radio talk show host addressed the audience as the Keynote Speaker. His message to the U.S. government was more direct. You can take away our land, but you will NEVER take away our churches. Sierra Times Reporters Paul Zimmerman and Johnny Johnson have the exclusive coverage. Full Report can be found at: http://www.SierraTimes.com Coming up: Report from The Heritage Rally in Montgomery. all can be found at: http://www.SierraTimes.com "Waco-A New Revelation" has created a landslide of events unprecedented by any other documentary in history. See and hear for yourself these new, shocking findings on the newly released video, "Waco-A New Revelation." Now, Only $23.95 + 3.50 s/h CDS P.O. Box 14002 Fort Worth, TX 76117 888-658-2913 Pre-Paid Legal Service: Coverage Americans Can No Longer Do Without. Contact your (PPL Independent Associate) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information. Can you beat $.04 per minute? We didn't think so. Check out our site for details. http://www.SierraTimes.com. An Internet Publication for Real Americans. SierraTimes.com Publishing Communication Associates Is a Subsidiary of J.J. Johnson Enterprises, Inc. - A Nevada Corporation © 2000 Sierra Times - all rights reserved = If you wish to Subscribe or Unsubscribe from this list, please go to our website at: http://www.sierratimes.com/listmanager.htm A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath?
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I don't know Jah. It is my hope in life to know her/him one day. Religion is for people that believe in hell, while spirituality is for people that have lived there.I am NOT religious. Andrew -Original Message- From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath? -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Hey ali, Do you know a guy named Jah? I have always maintained that religion causes insanity. Here's more proof. J2 ======== ali andrew wrote: Peace and Blessings Alan, NO! I am NOT happy. I am broken hearted at this crime against God and the Martyrs. I will lift up a loud CRY. For I am the Watchman Isa.58 [1] Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. The Sabbath is spoken of 197 times in the Holy Bible. The people that were killed at New Jerusalem (Mt.Carmel). by the forces of Babylon kept that Sabbath, they love not their live even unto death. They honored the Words of Lord of the worlds. Who would build this church on the ground that ran red with the blood of men, woman and children for the word of God? The only ones that could do such a sinful act before the eyes of the people of the world and God are those that have forgotten the Book. Exod.20 1. [8] Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. There is no excuse for this for this action. For the past three years I have lived at New Jerusalem where the land has been desolate accept for my care. For seven years it has been a waist land. Now that the Beast has decided to make a show. He puts his tabernacle where David's was and calls the foolish to honor it. It is an Abomination that will, according to the Word of the Lord in the Seventy Week prophesy, be totally destroyed. David taught that he was the Daily. We know thatb means a sacrfice. He was working to open the Sixth Seal. So naturally after the taking away of the Daily there is to be Seventy Weeks just before the reserection in Daneil 12. According to the teachings for which these people gave their lives we are about to experience the terror of the Reserection. [12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; [13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. [14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. [15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: [17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Andrew -Original [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Alan Bacon To: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: Re: Who would Build a church on the Sabbath? Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says. Or is it scary? Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan (who, by the way,also "believes" in God). Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace, but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and workplace. FUNNY, ISN'T IT? Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week. Are you laughing? Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not sent it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them. Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me. Are you thinking? A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Su
[CTRL] It Show Time Again
Here is more government mind-screw put out but the two of the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco.TOMMY WITHERSPOON and MARK ENGLAND Tribune-Herald staff writers. They were on the scene from the beginning. And are responsible for the Sinful messiah series that ran in the paper the day before the murdering began. The show goes on! the Waco Suits are for Waco suckers. No one is being charge with these murders and the ones paying for the new church are the American people. Clinton must be having quite a laugh at the fools of this country. Why shouldn't he? Anybody that falls for this line of garbage is a fool. Read this article about the show being put on by this murderous Government. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws.html Kathryn Schroeder and Rita Riddle are to of the most questionable people involved in this mass murder. It is Schroeder who put innocent men behind bars to save her our skin. And Riddle left her daughter Misty behind to die. Consider for a moment the unbelievable testimonies of the so called fire survivors. And Rita Riddle. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws04.html We have got to take our heads out of the sand and look at the truth that this government is still very much in control of New Jerusalem,i.e. Mt.Carmel. Their agent Clive Doyle,who laid the foundation of the new church on the Sabbath! is doing all he can to suppress the teachings of David Koresh. This law suit is a joke. The show is being staged for those that love their sleep and sleep they will until it is their children that are mutilated and tortured. They must think that the Murderer of the Children of Waco, Bill Clinton, will not harm them. David taught that he, The King of the North, will make this world desolate! Andrew Waco Suits for Waco Suckers or They Couldn't Even Get the Names Right! by Carol A. Valentine Judge Charlie McCarthy presiding ... Hey, Wow! They're finally doing something about Waco! That video showed how the government shot the Davidians as they were trying to escape the fire, and tough Davidian lawyers are suing the government because of what they did! The judge is the same judge who was real mean to the Davidians back in 1994 and sent them to prison for 40 years, but don't worry, he is nice now--he had a change of heart! Now he's going after the government, not the Davidians! The FBI has admitted it lied about stuff. Janet Reno and Louis Freeh are real ANGRY! There are Congressional investigations, too, complete with turf battles! The nation is coming together! Folks are feeling sorry about what happened, and are helping the Davidians rebuild their church! They've even had a ground breaking ceremony, with the American flag fluttering in the breeze! It was very nice! Truth! Justice! The American Way! Yes, indeed, it's all just around the corner! * * * Do you believe all this? THEN YOU ARE A SUCKER. The lawsuits and attendant media hoopla are part of a tawdry, choreographed vaudeville show designed to cover up the Waco Holocaust yet again. The bad actors include Kirk Lyons, Ramsey Clark, Gordon Novel, Brigadier General Benton Partin, Michael Caddell, Michael McNulty, and Judge Walter Smith. Before we get into details, allow us to pose a question. Imagine you are a surviving Branch Davidian or a family member of one of those killed. Suppose you had voluminous, incontestable, publicly available evidence that members of your family and your friends were murdered with malice aforethought and their bodies desecrated in an attempt to cover up the crime. Would you file a lawsuit claiming that your women folk and children (a) died by accident, (b) committed suicide, (c) were murdered by other Davidians? Would you claim your dead friends and relatives set Mt. Carmel on fire? Would you ask that Americans who had no part in the planning or performance of the murders pay millions of dollars to you while the murderers went free? Would you take part in the falsification of history and consider your loved ones were in any way avenged? Now you understand the Davidian civil suits. They re-assert the government's most pernicious black propaganda against Davidians living and dead, make exotic claims against the US that are completely unsupported or supported by weak and contested evidence, and ignore the most powerful and convincing evidence against the US. Table of Contents1. Judge Charlie McCarthy Presiding ... 2. The Importance of Truth in Justice 3. Kirk Lyons 3a. Startle Summers ... No Body to Speak Of ... 3b. It IS Aisha Summers. (Please Don't Read the Autopsy Report.) 3c. Forget Lyons' Death Squad. Aisha Suicided 3e.
Re: [CTRL] Day by Day
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- We have never referred to a "CHURCH" as a compound until me were taught to do so by the media which is fully under the control of the Bill Clinton Murderers of The Children of Waco. The *EVIDENCE* shows that the government use this story to justify the tank attack on a "CHURCH". Andrew -Original Message- From: Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Day by Day -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- This is one person/source. There are many who say the children were not treated badly and that this is untrue. Undoubtedly there are others that would concur with this source. I am just curious as to how you or anyone who was not living in the compound could know which of these opinions to believe so positively. IMHO, I do not think this can be proven either way except possibly by the survivors and not even there does one find a consensus. I am reluctant to accept the "official" storyline on this as self-serving. Que bono, indeed. Gottta work the children into the necessity for an armed assault. Otherwise, looks bad for launching this type of assault on a compound known to be full of children and subsequently killing them one and all. In a message dated 2/29/00 9:11:58 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bill, Please cite your proof that Koresh was a child murder/rapist. Hmmm...I'll try though you'll dispute the source (undoubtedly)... A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Building a Church on the Sabbath
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- -Original Message----- From: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Building a Church on the Sabbath This is a response from Ron Goins a Student of The Seven Seals living here in Waco. READ! Andrew -Original Message- From: ron goins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Building a Church on the Sabbath Peace and Blessings to all of an open mind; I've received this request by E-mail from an interested party and thought to answer it in the most logical way. I am often a poor vessel for the truth since I try to look at situations from many angles. From: "John Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:36:42 -0600 So whats up with Andrew and this new church? What did he mean "the killers of the children of Waco" and "the abomination that maketh desolate". Im familiar with the verse. Not seeing the connection. ~ interested party. IJN Well it's a long story starting with the personal relationship between Andrew and Clive Doyle,the interim leader of the survivors group in Waco. Andrew came to Waco in December of 1996 from Philadelphia, Pa. He has a long history of fighting authority (especially abusive authority). April 19 1993 was a traumatic date for this entire country but especially traumatic for those sensitive to issues of human rights and religious freedoms. All of Andrew's circuits were fired that day , seeing men , women and children consumed in a fire after being held hostage 51 days by the armed forces of The Great Satan ,the U.S. government. Familiar with many aspects of previous misdeeds of the past administrations and somewhat knowledgeable of comparative religion, Andrew made a study of this event. It would mark the rest of his life. I knew Andrew at this time and saw many of the same things and puzzled at the same mysteries. Why the raid ? Why the siege ? Why the assault? What had these people done to deserve this gross injustice? Andrew spoke often of finding out the facts regarding Waco, but like must of us never made the trip down here to find out. Until an accident on his motorcycle left him injured and unemployed, Andrew probably would have worked and studied at home, but this accident was advantageous to Andrew's vision quest, and he decided to face his life and his life-long demons on the road. Upon Andrew'a arrival he was faced with not only his issues of personal survival , but with issues related to the conditions faced by the survivors and the land (Mt. Carmel) itself. He lived in his van, knew nobody, had very little resources, but with will and determination he pitched in to the lives of people he felt a strong common bond with. He worked on the land, attended Sabbath meetings, guarded the often vandalized property overnight for weeks at a time. He had many questions at this time related to the history of the land, and the people who lived there. Not only the Branch Davidians but as far back as the original native tribes. He brought these questions and more to the survivors. Andrew learned much in his research and in his studies with Clive Doyle (though Clive might say that Andrew came in with certain fixed ideas and chose what might fit them (also true), and was in constant debate with any and all he might talk to . So Andrew and Clive may have been called friends at that point. Of course there will always be points of difference between friends, and they had many. One major difference was in the way each thought about the coming end times. Both believed that David Koresh was an anointed messenger of God, in the role of the Daily Sacrifice spoken of in Daniel. Clive, however did not find a way to apply the Bible prophecies to the current conditions other than to adopt a wait and see attitude. Andrew, not being a "wait and see" kind of guy, wanted to shout from the rooftops the truth as he sees it; that the messiah long hoped for would be coming from Persia(Iran) to deal personally with the enemies of light (the New World Order of The Beast). David Koresh means Beloved Cyrus (of ancient Persia, who freed the captive Jews to rebuild Jerusalem). Andrew also holds to the time prophecies of Daniel, dealing with the cleansing, rebuilding, and eventual destruction of the temple due to the "over-spreading of abominations" therein. So, 1290 days passed with no sign, and also 1335 days. At the 2300 day point (from the taking away of the daily) no change, but soon (about 40 days )September 15,1999 it was announced that a new "memorial chapel" would be built at Mt. Carmel.This was to be a good thing, but
Re: [CTRL] Building a Church on the Sabbath
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- This is a response from Ron Goins a Student of The Seven Seals living here in Waco. READ! Andrew -Original Message- From: ron goins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 02, 2000 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Building a Church on the Sabbath Peace and Blessings to all of an open mind; I've received this request by E-mail from an interested party and thought to answer it in the most logical way. I am often a poor vessel for the truth since I try to look at situations from many angles. From: "John Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:36:42 -0600 So whats up with Andrew and this new church? What did he mean "the killers of the children of Waco" and "the abomination that maketh desolate". Im familiar with the verse. Not seeing the connection. ~ interested party. IJN Well it's a long story starting with the personal relationship between Andrew and Clive Doyle,the interim leader of the survivors group in Waco. Andrew came to Waco in December of 1996 from Philadelphia, Pa. He has a long history of fighting authority (especially abusive authority). April 19 1993 was a traumatic date for this entire country but especially traumatic for those sensitive to issues of human rights and religious freedoms. All of Andrew's circuits were fired that day , seeing men , women and children consumed in a fire after being held hostage 51 days by the armed forces of The Great Satan ,the U.S. government. Familiar with many aspects of previous misdeeds of the past administrations and somewhat knowledgeable of comparative religion, Andrew made a study of this event. It would mark the rest of his life. I knew Andrew at this time and saw many of the same things and puzzled at the same mysteries. Why the raid ? Why the siege ? Why the assault? What had these people done to deserve this gross injustice? Andrew spoke often of finding out the facts regarding Waco, but like must of us never made the trip down here to find out. Until an accident on his motorcycle left him injured and unemployed, Andrew probably would have worked and studied at home, but this accident was advantageous to Andrew's vision quest, and he decided to face his life and his life-long demons on the road. Upon Andrew'a arrival he was faced with not only his issues of personal survival , but with issues related to the conditions faced by the survivors and the land (Mt. Carmel) itself. He lived in his van, knew nobody, had very little resources, but with will and determination he pitched in to the lives of people he felt a strong common bond with. He worked on the land, attended Sabbath meetings, guarded the often vandalized property overnight for weeks at a time. He had many questions at this time related to the history of the land, and the people who lived there. Not only the Branch Davidians but as far back as the original native tribes. He brought these questions and more to the survivors. Andrew learned much in his research and in his studies with Clive Doyle (though Clive might say that Andrew came in with certain fixed ideas and chose what might fit them (also true), and was in constant debate with any and all he might talk to . So Andrew and Clive may have been called friends at that point. Of course there will always be points of difference between friends, and they had many. One major difference was in the way each thought about the coming end times. Both believed that David Koresh was an anointed messenger of God, in the role of the Daily Sacrifice spoken of in Daniel. Clive, however did not find a way to apply the Bible prophecies to the current conditions other than to adopt a wait and see attitude. Andrew, not being a "wait and see" kind of guy, wanted to shout from the rooftops the truth as he sees it; that the messiah long hoped for would be coming from Persia(Iran) to deal personally with the enemies of light (the New World Order of The Beast). David Koresh means Beloved Cyrus (of ancient Persia, who freed the captive Jews to rebuild Jerusalem). Andrew also holds to the time prophecies of Daniel, dealing with the cleansing, rebuilding, and eventual destruction of the temple due to the "over-spreading of abominations" therein. So, 1290 days passed with no sign, and also 1335 days. At the 2300 day point (from the taking away of the daily) no change, but soon (about 40 days )September 15,1999 it was announced that a new "memorial chapel" would be built at Mt. Carmel.This was to be a good thing, but for certain unfortunate circumstances. Some felt that the location of the chapel in it's original spot would be offensive to the memory of the martyrs, considering it to be a crime scene and thus an open wound not to be
Re: [CTRL] Building a church on the Sabbath
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Tom Cook you are a disgrace to New Jerusalem. But that is why I am here to expose you and Doyle for the criminals that you are. You know very little of the teachings of David. You have proven that by stating that you don't believe that Koresh is to come from Iran and Destroy the government. You have stated that you would like to heal the wounds between Clinton and the Branch Davidians! Also you openly rejected David when he was alive and only became involved with the bill Clinton murderers of the Children of Waco when you bailed Jessie Amen out of jail for Clinton. Only a brain dead idiot would believe that he was not an agent sent in there to confuse and distort the truth, and you are helping to continue that. This Government's control of New Jerusalem. You will fail! You admit that Doyle worked on the Sabbath, because there are too many witnesses other wise you would have lied about this as you did when you were telling people a few months ago about Clive Doyle and others being thieves of the churches money. I opposed you then and I will forever oppose you in you attempts to corrupt the teachings of David Koresh. Your Enemy Andrew -Original Message- From: Thomas Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:24 PM Subject: Mt. Carmel Chapel detractor has tunnel vision. Clive found the volunteers staking out the perimeter of the chapel on Saturday September 18, 1999 and instead of running them off he worked with them and explained to not let this happen again as he stated before anything was started. Alex Jones and Mike Hanson understood but the word did not filter down the line well. Since then there has been no work on the chapel on Sabbath. Peaceful approach with good results. - Original Message ----- From: ali andrew ISP # 208.215.1.90 To: cd ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; David Thibodeau ; tom Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 4:06 AM Subject: Waco: Building a Church on the Sabbath! In the Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful Building a Church on the Sabbath! I sent out a post asking those that know about the Sabbath their opinion on a Church that was founded on the Sabbath by "fire survivor" Clive Doyle who is a government agent posing as the spokesman for David Koresh. Sharleen has attack me with out right lies and slander. It stands to reason that those that would mutilate children would lay the foundation of a church on the very ground that they caused the blood of men, women and children to bleed into. This is my response to this governments attack. I fear no man. My lord is enough of a protector between me and those with the mark of the Beast. Sharleen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] You are a lair! Clive Doyle laid the foundation to this church on September 18, 1999. Anyone can ask him. He can't lie because there are plenty of witnesses. I even have Clive Doyle admitting it on video. So go peddle your lies to those that feed on them. Anyone that is interested in this crime against God should ask Clive [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can ask Ron Goins he is also a student here in Waco. [EMAIL PROTECTED] These are others that are witnesses but they like Clive Doyle try to make excuses! [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] What these people have done is set up the "Abomination That Maketh Desolate". What I am doing is sounding the alarm! Do you call Doyle and the murders of the children members of the Koresh's church? Whatever their Church is it is not mine. And I have never said that I was a member of their corruption of the Word of God. I am a student of the Seven Seals a follower of David Koresh and a member of the Church of Philadelphia. I have never threatened anybody or that church! I have worked there for three years cutting the grass and protecting the interests of the true survivors and the Martyrs. Where were "you" then? It's time for a "feel" good church so it is time for your kind. I will continue to declare the truth that the foundation was laid on the Sabbath September 18,1999 by Clive Doyle. I know that means nothing to you and those that would murder innocence. Your case is with God my Job is to sound the alarm those that listen will benefit those that do not will be rewarded accordingly. Andrew "The Watchman" From: "ali andrew" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace and Blessings all, I have a question for you folks. I am involved with a group that laid the foundation of their church on September 18,1999. this was a Sabbath. Since that time I have protested the building of this church. Am I pushing this thing too far? What is you opinion? What would God say to this? Andrew Sharleen wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 12:28 AM Subject: [Melchizi
[CTRL] Express-News/Dick Reavis/Koresh fulfilled prophecy of doom?
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Reavis, Once again your garbage spews forth. First you say Pace is a fraud then you give him copy for his message. Only the weak in mind are taken by your linguistic babblegarf. Why is Pace and Government Agent Clive Doyle working hand in hand? If you want to write about something why don't you tell the people of America the truth about David's teachings i.e. Davidians believe that Koresh is coming from Iran to destroy this filthy government and those that support it? He will lay this place to waist! That Government church that is being built was founded on the Sabbath. Now I know that doesn't mean anything to you since you don't believe in God. At least that is what you told me in June last year at "New Jerusalem" (Mt.Carmel). Regardless of your honesty, or the lack there of, the fact remains the foundation to the Abomination you are calling a church was laid on September 18,1999 By Clive Doyle. I have him on video admitting it just after he assaulted me. He is working for Bill Clintonyour Boss. I will be exposing some of the other tripe that you have written, i.e. You work to setup Fagan! Andrew -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: undisclosed-recipients:; undisclosed-recipients:; Date: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 2:40 AM Subject: Express-News/Dick Reavis/Koresh fulfilled prophecy of doom? I chose to hold this story back a day, because I felt it would disrespect the survivors and the memories of those who died on the 28th. This is an interview with Charles Pace, who "lives" off to the side of Mt. Carmel. Like his fellow "squatter" Amos Roden (Ben Roden's widow), they reject the Branch Davidian testimony of what happened during the siege, and the consequent fire. They are frequently seen preaching to people their own version of what happened, to anyone that will listen. Please keep in mind, that these people have also taken the position that it's perfectly fine to collect "tourist money" from anyone who wanders too close to where they are staying. They offer their services at what amounts to a few misguided "tour guides", re-creating their own brand of truth as they go. Off of my web site alone, I have been mailed from a dozen people who have visited Mt. Carmel, and each one reported experiencing the exact same thing. Their actions exploit and shatter the memories of those killed, and I have to comment that I find all of it very offensive. There are others that live on the fringe of Mt. Carmel too... some of them have attempted to disrupt several memorial services and have been arrested. Someone has even went so far, as to threaten the new church with fire and demolition. ***Side note*** I received this in my e-mail, AS I was writing this letter to you just now! I cannot believe the outright coincidence of this, and the COMPLETE verification of what I just said above. As they say, I rest my case. Subj:Waco Protest Date: 02/28/2000 11:39:51 AM US Mountain Standard Time Today (Feb 28th) I go to the church of David Koresh to protest the building of a church that was founded on the Sabbath, September 18,1999 by Clive Doyle. It is "The Abomination That Maketh Desolate". There is a party going on there today. The party is being thrown by the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. They will most likely have me arrested,as they did on Nov. 28,1999.) It's sad to know that even after being abused by the government and losing their families... the Davidians determination to rebuild and survive once again, is being attacked by people in their own back yard. I can only pray this church and these courageous people, will be around for many years to come. And that they are free to finally live in relative peace and harmony, away from the "lunatic fringe". ~Sharlene~ A HREF="http://mysa.com/pantheon/homebase/hbm%26s/2801a-waco-prophetic_end.sht ml "http://mysa.com/pantheon/homebase/hbm%26s/2801a-waco-prophetic_end.shtml/ A Express-News Metro State News Davidian claims Koresh fulfilled prophecy of doom (Last updated Sunday, Feb 27, 2000) By Dick J. Reavis Express-News Staff Writer If the sworn statement they are now giving attorneys and authorities is true, the fire that destroyed Waco's Mount Carmel in 1993 took David Koresh's followers unaware. But their fate could not have come as a surprise to Koresh, a longtime rival is saying, because he warned the young Branch Davidian leader of what lay in store. Charles Pace, who today lives in a mobile home only yards from where Koresh died, is out to convert the dead preacher's following â and anyone else who will lend an ear â by repeating predictions that he made as early as 1984. Pace claims that he, former Davidian leaders and even the Bible prophesied what happened during the 51-day federal standoff in 1993, down to the fatal blaze. Koresh's rise and fiery fall, Pace claims, "were all part of a divine plan to show
[CTRL] Day by Day
THE EVENTS AT WACO: AN INTERPRETIVE LOG by James D. Tabor A careful reading of this chronology makes clear some rather significant and startling conclusions. Notice the various periods in which there were people being let out of the Mt. Carmel Center--once this seemed to stop, and David Koresh's position became firm about not coming out until he heard from God, the FBI began to significantly toughen its stance. You can see this in particular from March 15th on, and even though significant numbers of people exited (7 on March 21st alone), the tactical side of the FBI kept stepping up the pressure, harassment, threats, and so forth. Note also they totally gave up on David's ``Bible Babble,'' early on, and never understood that such was actually the only substantive channel of negotiation. Also, note how absolutely consistent David Koresh is, utterly to the end. He holds out, against all pressures, for his ``word from God.'' Yet when he finally gets it, it is not even given a moment's attention. Even when things began to move very positively with the visits of the lawyers on March 29-April 4th, the FBI became only deafened to what was going on and hardened its positions and actions. Their independent plans for the CS GAS attack, which were begun as early as March 22nd, the very day they had their get tough'' strategy meeting, had moved to a fast pace by April 9th, and it became clear that this was going to be the outcome--regardless of what else was going on. The experts'' who evaluated the letters which were sent out on April 9, 10, 11, and 14th are much to blame for this whole matter, and are obviously unqualified when it comes to Biblical materials. They reinforced completely the FBI's impression that David's Biblical ideas were crazy, incoherent, and psychotic, that he was not coming out. What Dr. Phillip Arnold and Dr. James Tabor had done with their tapes, and through consultations with Dick DeGuerin, the very strategy that was working and getting a positive, coherent, and totally rational response from Koresh, was lost somehow in the background. It was actually the only coherent negotiation strategy'' pursued in the whole episode, and it was working. Sunday, February 28 9:30am BATF assault on Mt. Carmel Center (MtCC). 9:48am 911 call made by BD Wayne Martin pleading that they call them back, stop firing. Justice Department Report does not mention time of call, later classifies the whole affair an ambush by the BD. 11:00am FBI Agent Jeff Jamar notified in San Antonio, negotiators requested. Agent Byron Sage sent, gets on 911 line by 2:00 p.m. Texas Rangers arrive (32 within few days), to lead criminal investigation. FBI role to be limited to ending standoff. US Attorneys also arrive, two of which (Johnston Phinizy) had assisted with initial warrants, to immediately work on case against BD, with homicide and assault charges formulated immediately. 4:00pm Koresh message broadcast over KRLD. Repeated twice. 4:55pm Gun fight: Mike Schroeder shot, Delroy Nash arrested, Robert Kendrick escaped, but later caught. They had been at Mag Bag at time of raid. 8:00pm CNN carried live telephone interview with Koresh. FBI told them not to conduct any more. By 10pm Four children exit(2 Sonobe; 2 Fagan) Monday, March 1 Clinton informed by Acting AG Stuart Gerson, told strategy was negotiation, not tactical-- he was to be informed of any change to tactical resolution. Gerson states the FBI policy is to talk them out, no matter how long it takes. FBI HRT begins arriving. Two phone lines left open--calls out to FBI only. 6:00pm Armored vehicles moved into inner perimeter. Koresh very upset over phone lines being cut and restricted and armored vehicles coming in. Ten children exit by 11:00pm (4 Wendel; 3 Mabb; 1 Schroeder; 1 Martin; 1 Silvia). Koresh promised to come out after a taped message played nationwide. Tuesday, March 2 1:20am Two children exit (Nobrega; Vaega) 8:10am Two adults; two children exit (Margaret Lawson, 75; Catherine Matteson, 77; 2 Martins). 1:30pm Koresh Message played over KRLD and CBN Network 6:00pm Koresh reports God had told him to WAIT, he was not coming out until he received additional order from God. Wednesday, March 3 Two elderly women released the previous day are charged with attempted murder; BD very upset; FBI got charges dropped. 12:40pm Koresh preaching (1 hour). All is up to his Father now, he must wait. He would still keep his word and surrender when God told him it was time. Request to speak with Robert Rodriquez denied Body of Michael Schroeder recovered by agents 2:49pm Koresh preaching(1 hour). FBI REPORTS IT RAMBLED, MADE LITTLE SENSE, WAS ALL ABOUT UNLOCKING THE SEVEN SEALS AND THE END OF THE WORLD. 4:26pm One child exits with puppies (Jones) 9:40pm Koresh
Re: [CTRL] Day by Day
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Billy boy I mean Casper... As I pointed out yesterday it is you and others that are obsessed with the sexual issues. That are as I have said non existent except in your libido. If you are so concerned with sexual issues why don't you call for the impeachment of the Murderer of the Children of Waco..Bill Clinton he is a freak that you could spend hours titillating yourself with. Yes David Koresh was the Christ that will destroy this country and the pigs that support it. Read Isa. 45. You Casper and the sow you work for will soon know who it is that rules this world. Fear God! you fool. Andrew So Ali, you never did answer the reason for your obsession with a child rapist/killer, nor the proof of his divinity...Is Koresh a messiah? Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] The FBI Told The Child Abuse Lies!
Title: From 1995 PBS Waco Documentary Transcript -- Who In The FBI Told The Child Abuse Lies? [Free Republic] FreeRepublic.com A Conservative News Forum [ Refresh | Top | Last | Latest Posts | Latest Articles | Post | Abuse | Help! ] From 1995 PBS Waco Documentary Transcript -- Who In The FBI Told The Child Abuse Lies? News/Current Events Breaking News News Keywords: HUBBELL, WACO, RENO, FBI, LIES, SESSIONSSource: www.pbs.orgPublished: October 17, 1995 Author: Peter Boyer Michael Kirk, Frontline CorrespondentsPosted on 09/06/1999 05:34:34 PDT by L.N. Smithee PETER J. BOYER: The siege has gone on now for 23 days, 23 days of two competing solutions: talk and action. [Jeff] Jamar, the agent-in-charge, has signed on for action. He makes it clear to Sage that his mind is made up. Byron Sage, the most visible negotiator, then recommends in writing an escalation of tactical measures, including tear gas. MIKE KIRK: You signed on. BYRON SAGE: Absolutely. I mean, this is kind of a radical departure for a negotiation team to recommend tear-gassing, but we're now what, 20, 23 days into a siege. Haven't had a child out since the 5th of March. PETER J. BOYER: The HRT are ready with a plan. It's simple, aggressive and quick. Under the cover of darkness they would take the compound with Bradley tanks and gas. The Davidians, overwhelmed, would come out. They are ready to act, but first the plan must be approved by Washington. The record shows that using tanks and gas on a compound still holding 25 children was a tough sell to this attorney general. As a local prosecutor, Janet Reno had built a reputation as a zealous child advocate. And on Monday, April, 12th, she said no to the gas plan. The FBI didn't relent. They came back at the attorney general. The plan's too aggressive,'' she said. Then they'll water it down. She worried the Davidians might use the children as shields. If they did, the FBI promised to back off. Most of all, she worried that the gas would permanently damage the children. A military expert assured her the gas was safe. For five days the FBI tried to eliminate her objections. After the Waco fire, Reno would say again and again that she authorized the gas plan because children were being abused. JANET RENO: [ABC News Nightline''] We had had reports that they had been sexually abused, that babies had actually been beaten. I asked when I first heard that for them to verify it and, again, that was the report that was brought back. PETER J. BOYER: When she said, I was told that babies were being beaten and I said, 'What do you mean? Babies are being picked up and beaten?' 'Yes,' I was told, 'babies were being beaten' ''_ WILLIAM SESSIONS: Then she will have to say who told her that. Certainly, I did not. PETER J. BOYER: She says she doesn't remember. WILLIAM SESSIONS: Well, if it was impressive_ something that impressed her tremendously, then she's responsible for what she heard. PETER J. BOYER: But FBI documents uncovered by FRONTLINE confirm that as the Bureau was pressuring Reno to approve the gas plan, someone in the FBI told her that children were being abused at Waco. But the FBI knew that children were not being beaten during the stand-off. [interviewing] At the time, what she said was, I was told that babies were being beaten.'' She told me that she was told that. Web Hubbel [(sic)] told me that he heard her being told that. Did you tell her that? WILLIAM SESSIONS: No. PETER J. BOYER: It is still not known who had told Reno about the child abuse, but on Friday, April 16th, she changed her mind and approved the gas plan. The FBI is ready, but will the Davidians play the role the FBI has scripted for them? When the gas goes in, will they come out? Click here for entire transcript. It is illuminating. I don't think folks who are looking at Byron Sage for the first time have any idea of how contentious the negotiations with Koresh were, although Koresh was definitely a frustrating and bizarre character. I posted this to make sure that it is understood that Reno's ignorance of the facts is not enough to get her off the hook. She has got to explain who gave her the story of the abused kids, which, if Boyer is accurate, seems to have been a carefully contrived lie to sway her to action. That person must be called on the carpet with the full weight of the bloodguilt for spurring the final deadly assault. If she can't or won't answer the question, the guilt shifts back to her. We should not tolerate the idea of a Deep Throat telling Reno the kids are being beaten in a parking garage. (BTW, has Webster Hubbell been asked who told Reno the kids were being beaten? I don't know where I can find a transcript of the original hearings online.) I am sure that some will suggest that this would be going over old ground, but it should be pointed out that with the new revelations, no ground is old anymore. 1
[CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In The Name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful February 28, 2000 Today I go to the church of David Koresh to protest the building of a church that was founded on the Sabbath September 18,1999 by Clive Doyle. It is "The Abomination That Maketh Desolate". There is a party going on there today. The party is being thrown by the Bill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco. They will most likely have me arrested,as they did on Nov. 28,1999. But Christ never said that walking in the truth was going to be easy. In fact he said that the beast would lock you up torture you and kill you. I have a video that shows Clives Doyle on Nov.28 in full cooperation with the police and assaulting me. This video is free. I may be out of action for awhile after today so if you are interested in seeing how the Government still controls "New Jerusalem" in Waco Texas contact my friend Ron Goins he is a "Witness" living here in Waco: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I go now to defend the Martyrs, Andrew A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I only hope that I am as big a pain in your ass, which you obviously use as your head, as I wish to be. -Original Message- From: William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Waco Protest -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 2/28/00 12:39:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I go now to defend the Martyrs, Good...will you be gone long? Take your time... Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] 2-28-93 A Day to Remember
Nice work Bill Clinton! You and the Murderers that support you will one day stand before the Lord of the Universe and on that day there will be none to help you. God is calling you to judgment. Do you think that you will escape the judgment of his hand? NO! By Killing the servant of God ,David Koresh you have brought upon our country a judgment that will be ever lasting in the suffering that will result. Look and see what the Clinton Murders did while Clinton was dedicating the (ZOG) holocaust museum in Washington. As these children were dismembered Al Gore spoke in Warsaw on the 50th anniversary of the burning of the Warsaw Ghetto and quoted Deuteronomy 4:9. What evil!!! Waco Holocaust Electronic Museumhttp://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseumor http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum Mt. Carmel Doe 70Autopsy photograph of the alleged remains of Mayannah Shneider Waco Holocaust Electronic Museumhttp://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseumor http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum Waco Holocaust Electronic Museumhttp://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseumor http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum Mt. Carmel 31 AAutopsy photograph of the alleged remains of Aisha Summers --identified on Feb. 8, 1994 by DNA study (see identification matrix). Photograph also shows remains of Mt. Carmel Doe 31b (allegedly unborn Fetus Summers), Mt. Carmel Doe 31 DE, and Mt. Carmel Doe 31 F
[CTRL] The First Death Count (http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/pa
Title: The First Death Count The First Death Count14 may be dead in compound, ran a headline in the Dallas Morning News, March 3, 1993. Heavy casualties among the Davidians is believable, given the strafing, the frontal infantry assault, and the flimsy structure. With time, however, the February 28 death count was revised downward. The modest plywood shelter the Branch Davidians had built with the own hands could not be expected to withstand the barrage of helicopter machine gun fire and the hail of bullets from the frontal infantry assault of February 28. Early accounts indicated that a child, or children had been killed that day. This was surely not unexpected, because the helicopters had fired into the second story quarters where the children lived. When the Davidians were attacked, they called 911. The call was taped. The recording captured David Koresh's voice: You see you brought your bunch of guys out here and you killed some of my children. We told you we wanted to talk. . . Dallas Morning News, March 1, quoted Steve Schneider: People are lying dead in here, babies and everything . . . (pg. 13A), and also reported David Koresh saying a 2-year old girl was killed. Early in March, Waco researcher Ken Fawcett captured raw TV footage, not shown on nightly newscasts, which showed several black clad men carrying what appeared to be a small body in a body bag to an ambulance waiting outside the Mt. Carmel Center. The identical footage is shown in Waco, the Big Lie. Reports also indicated that 14 Branch Davidians in the Mt. Carmel Center at the time of the raid had been killed. On March 3, the Dallas Morning News reported that a McLennan County official who was familiar with the negotiations said that as many as 14 people are believed dead and that 'a whole lot' are wounded, (pg. 14A) Another Davidian, Michael Schroeder, was off site when the raid occurred, and was killed when he was repeatedly shot in the back while attempting to get back to the Center to reach his family. Schroeder's death would have been the fifteenth Davidian death on February 28. On March 2 arrangements had reportedly been made to end the confrontation. David Koresh was to tape a message he wanted the American people to hear. The taped message would be aired on national radio. The dead and the wounded would be taken to Hillcrest Baptist Medical Center and the Branch Davidians would confront the government in the courtroom (Dallas Morning News, March 3, 1993). Hillcrest Hospital had set up a temporary morgue and emergency room to handle the Davidian dead and wounded. According to the Dallas Morning News, Hillcrest expected that the Davidians were going to arrive after 2:30 pm on March 2. A triage area was set up outside the emergency room, and an area for a temporary morgue designated. Shortly before 1:00 pm, agents arrived at the hospital in a large white truck and took up positions on rooftops surrounding the emergency room. They surveyed the area through binoculars and clutched assault rifles to their chests. (Dallas Morning News, March 3, 1993, pg. 14A.) But the dead and wounded Davidians reportedly never arrived at Hillcrest. David Koresh's taped massage was not aired on national radio, but aired on a local station. The FBI would later say that David Koresh simply broke his word on March 2 and refused to let anyone leave. They implied that the local radio airing of Koresh's taped message should have been good enough. On the other hand, there could be an alternate explanation for the events of March 2. The FBI's Hostage Rescue Team had fully installed itself as the tactical unit in charge of the siege on that date (Treasury Report, pg. 118). Perhaps the new management decided against the release of the dead and the wounded. Surely there would be good reason to make the change. The confirmation that a child or children had been killed in the February 28 raid would have surely had the gravest political consequences for the US government. The raid had taken place just weeks after the new Democratic president, William Clinton, had been inaugurated. But the raid had obviously been planned months in advance--when the Republicans were in power. Simple political expediency would dictate that the news of a murdered child or children be suppressed. The news reports of the death of a child or children abruptly stopped about March 3, and the news reports of the numbers of the dead Davidians also ceased. Occasionally there would be a reference to the wounded who were still inside. Recall that Mt. Carmel was implanted with sophisticated surveillance devices, and that there were a number of informants living within the community. Throughout March many Davidians who had been inside the Mt. Carmel Center at the time of the raid left. Upon leaving, each was immediately interrogated by the commandos from the Hostage Rescue Team
[CTRL] WAR
Title: War: Directory of Exhibits War: Directory of Exhibits See also the Catalogue of Evidence The War Gallery is organized into exhibits, each dealing with a definable topic. They were designed for a sequential tour. To make a sequential tour as simple as possible, each page provides a link to the next. If you have not read carefully the main War Gallery page, you should do so now. Most of the following exhibits assume an understanding of the ideas in War, Not Law Enforcement. In order to understand what happened at Waco, we have to introduce you to something very few Americans know about: The New Military and the New Paradigm The Black Army Operational Philosophy Training Ruse Mind Set of Secret Commandos Murder and Torture of Civilians The Making of a Commando Lying and Secrecy--Standard Operating Procedure Special Ops Commandos Wear Civilian Disguises Retired from the Military Smear Jobs and Character Assassination Surprise--No Congressional Oversight A Death Cult Wears Black The Night Stalkers Bring Death in the Dark Body Mutilation and Drug Use Body Laundering HRT--Rescue Team or Death Squad? Melissa Morrison before the HRT Melissa Morrison after the HRT Peas in a Pod Dirty Harry with a Vengeance Now back to our story The Stage Where the Branch Davidians Lived Aerial Photos of the Mt. Carmel Center Dumb Diagrams of the Mt. Carmel Center Smart Diagrams of the Mt. Carmel Center Ham Radio Tower The script Psychological Operations and the Verbiage of War Redefinition of Words Everybody's Satan: How Political Opposition Was Neutralized The actors and the victims Trojan Horses and Branch Davidians They called it Operation Trojan Horse The Davidians--How Many, and Who? More actors The Soldiers--How Many, and Who? Did Special Ops Take Part in February 28 Raid? The law enforcement facade The PretextThe agenda Waco: National Testbed Center Purpose of National Response Plan National Military/Police Take-over Plan How the Plan Was Tested Delta Force Founder on Hand to Critique Military Occupation of Local College And How Did the Test Come Off? And the Tests Go On . . . Designed to Fail Gulf of Tonkin Precedent The Secret Raid That Lacked a Marching Band That's Not Murphy's Law The action, February 28, 1993 Who Struck John? Not an Ambush Blind Fire Entry of Agents into Second Story Window Killed by Expert Marksmen Death of ATF Agents Necessary Helicopter Attack Eyewitness Statements Death of Jaydean Wendel Attorney Inspection of Building Unmarked US Army Helicopters Used Historical Perspective First Death CountThe siege What's To Negotiate? Communications Cut Davidians Prevented from Leaving--Tanks and Grenades Used Electricity Turned Off Morse Code Signals Jammed Mind Manipulation Experiments Acoustic Psycho-Correction Technology War Gallery: Catalogue of Evidence Back: War Gallery Entrance Home: Museum Entrance Search: Museum Text Alert! Learn about the continuing attempts to cover up the Waco Holocaust. Read a short or more detailed review of the disinformation video Waco: The Rules of Engagement, Waco Documentary Is A Hoax! Learn the truth about the bogus new revelations and the Davidian civil law suits. Read Waco Suits for Waco Suckers Published by Public Action, Inc., a news and news analysis service. All commercial rights are reserved. A full statement of terms and conditions for copying and redistribution is available in the Museum Library. Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum, SkyWriter, and the sky writing logo are trademarks of Public Action, Inc. To receive occasional dispatches on Waco issues, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum or http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum [EMAIL PROTECTED] All original material is copyright 1996-2000 by Carol A. Valentine, on loan to Public Action, Inc. Postal Address: Carol A. Valentine, PO Box 10933, Burke, VA 22009 This page last updated February 6, 2000.
[CTRL] War Gallery (http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/war/war.html)
Title: Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum: War Gallery Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum:WarDirectory of Exhibits Catalogue of Evidence Search Museum TextThe above picture of the ambulance and armored personnel carrier at the Mt. Carmel Center was taken on February 28, 1993 and appeared in the Dallas Morning News, March 1. The caption does not say when the photograph was taken, but the presence of the ambulance and the APC together suggests that the APC was already there at about the time of the raid. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Operation Trojan Horse--the code name for the Waco operation--was planned and executed from the beginning to the end as a military action, not a civilian action. That is, from February 28, 1993 to the final day on April 19, 1993, Operation Trojan Horse was a military action, and military equipment was on the scene. The Waco Tribune-Herald, March 1, 1993 also published a photograph of a military combat vehicle moving into Mt. Carmel on the day of the raid. On April 21, two days after the inferno at the Mt. Carmel Center, an Air Force cargo plane transported the ATF agents from Waco. Thus we see that the civilian law enforcement facade in the Waco action was thick in rhetoric but thin in fact; from beginning to end, the US military presence was the dominant theme. Difference Between War and Law EnforcementWar and law enforcement have different goals. The purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law. Alleged violators of the law are apprehended with only the force necessary to arrest and deliver them to the judicial system for trial. The purpose of war, on the other hand, is the domination of the target. It is the job of the war machine to kill, to maim, and to destroy. The war machine must also create terror to convince potential opponents to submit on command. Therefore, the war machine must not only inflict maximum death and suffering on its victims, but must also broadcast its achievements to convince others to submit on command. This is the story of the attack on the Branch Davidians. For reasons that are not clear at this time, a military and intelligence operation, with a civilian law enforcement facade, was planned against the Branch Davidians. The complex details of the Davidians' history and lives were woven into this facade. These details and their subplots serve to direct attention away from the essentially military attack and extermination of the Branch Davidians. Next: The New Military and the New Paradigm Reference: Directory of Exhibits Next Gallery: Fire Gallery Home: Museum Entrance Search: Museum Text Alert! Learn about the continuing attempts to cover up the Waco Holocaust. Read a short or more detailed review of the disinformation video Waco: The Rules of Engagement, Waco Documentary Is A Hoax! Learn the truth about the bogus new revelations and the Davidian civil law suits. Read Waco Suits for Waco Suckers Published by Public Action, Inc.,, a news and news analysis service. All commercial rights are reserved. A full statement of terms and conditions for copying and redistribution is available in the Museum Library. Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum, SkyWriter, and the sky writing logo are trademarks of Public Action, Inc. To receive occasional dispatches on Waco issues, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum or http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum [EMAIL PROTECTED] All original material is copyright 1996-2000 by Carol A. Valentine, on loan to Public Action, Inc. Postal Address: Carol A. Valentine, PO Box 10933, Burke, VA 22009 This page last updated February 6, 2000.
[CTRL] Fire Heart
Title: Waco Survivor's Story(s) --True of False? *ITNOG* Peace and The Blessings of God Unto All that Read this Post, On, Friday, February 04, 2000 2:46 PM I received this post from David Thibodeau who is a Fire Survivor of the Waco Holocaust. He was never treated for C.S. gas poisoning, yet he maintains that he was in there? He was only at Mt.Carmel a short while before the Bill Clinton Murders were committed. He never went to prison and he and Clive Doyle are at this time suppressing the *EVIDENCE* that proves that the children and the others were mutilated prior to the fire. What does this mean??? Well, lets look at his post first...and then the *EVIDANCE* will show us the meaning of this betrayal of the Martyrs of Mt.Carmel. -Original Message-From: David Thibodeau [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:46 PM Andrew,I think you are very troubled. I am praying for you, that you see the reality of things and stop listening to conspiracy theorist like Carol Valentine who attacks the truth and THE SURVIVORS of the horrific incident. Who would target thoes who LIVED THROUGH IT ANDREW!!! You wern't there and I was so get over it please.David ThibodeauAndrew,I think you are very troubled. I am praying for you, that you see thereality of thingsThank you for your payers, but you should save them for yourself David Thibodeau you are in greater need of them in the Light of what you and Clive Doyle have done and are sill doing!You are right about my being troubled. I am very troubled by what theBill Clinton Murderers of the Children of Waco have done here. Your Testimony is one of the things that troubles me most of all. Lets look at the reality of these things, as you have said.Why David Thibdeau do you refuse to answer basic questions, with honesty, about why you are notin jail?And why does your testimony about the death of the Children not hold up to the light of common sense and truth?You state that:My lawyer had information on Judge Smith that forced him tolet me go. He did not want that information out because it would have puthim behind bars!I questioned you at the last memorial April 19,1999 about this story thatyour lawyer had black-mailed Judge Smith into letting you off. You of course confirmed this story, as you have many times on this net and in interviews. At that time I told you that the thousands of people that I have welcomed to Mt.Carmel weren't buying that story. I asked you then and I will ask you now:What was this information that was so damaging to Judge Smith?If what you say is the truth don't you think that you should come out with it to help those that are still in jail?Also let me ask you this:If your lawyer had enough Juice to keep you out of jail; why didn't he get the others out too? Or at the very least have their sentences reduced?What do you say Thibodeau? The people who care about the women and children that were Murdered by Bill Clinton would like to know!!!and stop listening to conspiracy theorist like CarolValentine who attacks the truth and THE SURVIVORS of the horrific incident. In this statement alone you reveal yourself for who you really are. David Koresh taught for years, before you came to Mt.Carmel, that he and those that followed him would one day killed by the President of the United States, (The King of The North). He said that according to the Bible the women would be raped and the children would be cut to pieces before the eyes of their parents.Why is the work of Carol Valentine to bring this *EFIDENCE* forward bothering you and Clive Doyle? She is only asking that we look at the *EVIDENCE*. You David Thibodeau and Clive Doyle are not only refusing to do this, you are attacking the one that is bringing it forward. What can be your motives for suppressing this information? Are you afraid of that it shows both of you and Clive Doyle to be among the Clinton Murders? Lets have a look at this *EVIDANCE* and see why both You and Clive Doyle are suppressing it. Before we look at your Testimony lets look at the *EVIDENCE* that proves that neither you nor Clive Doyle are followers of David Koresh. You and Doyle state that the children died from the fire, gun shot wounds and mutilation from the bunker falling on them. You have even suggested that they were shot by their own parents and or set the fire themselves! Both of you follow the government line that the people died on the 19th of April 1993, but the *EVIDENCE* does not show that at all. Neither does the *EVIDENCE*show that the bunker collapsed on them causing decapitation and mutilation, but you, David Thibodeau and Clive Doyle, follow the Clinton lies, by saying that it did! The *EVIDENCE* you are suppressing shows you and Doyle to be two of the sickest liars in the whole Waco Holocaust Here is the evidence: Summary of Preliminary Findings The dead can
[CTRL] Who says........
Title: Sources of Information So who says that Clinton is The Murder of Waco? Only the Brave because they know that Bill Clinton cut the children and the women to peices and then set them on fire. The Brave fear no man so why should they fear the sub-man ? I have been asked for the sources of my information here are some of them. To this list you could add the Holy Bible. Andrew Sources of Information (also see Bibliography) In assembling the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum, the following information sources were consulted. A specific listing of these and other applicable materials can be found in the Bibliography. US Government Reports The Report of the Department of the Treasury on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Investigation of Vernon Wayne Howell also known as David Koresh. We will call it the Treasury Report. The Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas, February 28 to April 19, 1993. We will call that the Department of Justice Report, or the DoJ Report. Veracity of US Government Reports The US Department of Justice and the FBI have a track record of destroying, fabricating, and altering evidence. See one such example described by FBI explosives expert Dr. Frederick Whitehurst during his direct testimony in the World Trade Center bombing case. The US Government reports concerning the Waco Holocaust are examined critically, but fairly. Autopsy Reports Autopsy Reports from the Justice of the Peace in McLellan County, Texas, in June and July, 1995. Autopsies were originally obtained by Waco Remembrance, from which the Museum project grew. Veracity of Autopsy Reports The people performing the autopsies had no discernible reason to exaggerate the degree of decomposition, dismemberment, and incineration of the corpses. The Museum accepts the descriptions of the corpses as accurate, but does not necessarily accept evaluations made by the autopsists, and will examine those evaluations in light of the evidence as a whole. Autopsy Photographs and Crime Scene Photographs Autopsy, crime scene, and a number of other photographs were donated to the Museum by unofficial sources. Veracity of Autopsy Photographs and Crime Scene Photographs Secret police and military intelligence organizations employ disinformation specialists whose mission is to guard the secrets of the agency. To achieve this, disinformation is leaked through unofficial sources with intent to mislead the recipient. The disinformation contained in the false leaks is often mixed with true information to give credibility to the package as a whole. Thus information from unofficial sources can be almost as unreliable as information from official sources. All sources of information must be reviewed critically. Internal inconsistencies are the most damning, of course. Corroboration from several sources is not always confirmation. The Museum has relied primarily on the Autopsy Reports for information on the condition of the remains of the Branch Davidians. Most of the autopsy photos bear close resemblance to the remains described in the reports. In those cases, the autopsy photos have been used to supplement the Autopsy Reports. In a few cases, the autopsy photographs are not consistent with the Autopsy Reports. In those cases, the official Autopsy Reports alone have been relied upon, and the photographs are regarded as problematic. The veracity of the crime scene photos are evaluated in the appropriate exhibit. Many photos were taken at the crime scene by the FBI, the ATF, and the Texas Rangers. Many photos and x-rays were taken in the autopsy rooms. The Museum is currently in the process of requesting both crime scene and autopsy photos from official sources. Trial Transcripts Transcript of the trial of surviving Branch Davidians for the murder of ATF agents, held in San Antonio in 1994 (US v. Branch et. al., Case No. W-93-CR-046). Turn to Bibliography for more information. Transcript of the World Trade Center bombing trial; testimony of FBI explosives expert Dr. Frederic Whitehurst. (US v. Rahman, Case No. 93-CR-0181).) Completeness of Branch Davidian Trial Transcript At least one segment of 1994 San Antonio trial of the Branch Davidians is missing from the official transcript. That section is Judge Walter Smith's instructions to the jury regarding the right to self defense when faced with the threat of death or serious bodily harm at the hands of police forces. Judge Smith's instructions were made available to those who attended
[CTRL] Waco Shrooms?
I have been following this talk and it is great! McKenna's food of the gods is a good referance book for any good preacher of the word. my reason for writing is that I've been down here from Philadelphia for the last three years and have been unfortunately Shroomless : ( I have searched through more cow shit than a little but no luck. my studies show that the Wac Indians used maskel beans. You would think being so close to the Holy land there would be plenty of Manna. Question: what is the deal on the Shrooms in Waco (City of the Noble One)? Andrew -Original Message-From: Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:54 PMSubject: Re: [CTRL] MANNA FROM HEAVEN This is my first post to this list, so greetings everyone...I've been interested in Manna and psychedelics for a while now and I agree with the shroom theory. Soaking shrooms in honey for a long time will result in a stained blue and psychedelic honey...I liked the idea so much that I created www.bluehoney.org - This is my reply: Something falling from heaven is entirely different than something springing from the earth. The Israelites just couldn'thave been so stupid they could not tell that difference--No one saw anything fall from the sky, the Manna appeared overnight with the morning dew (also they had no roots like other plants that they were familiar with). Now, I wouldn't call anyone stupid but the Israelites did wander for 40 years, you can't do that without going in a lot of circles. Besides...look at what these people did before they left Egypt...they were slaves, not gardeners. This is ignorance, not stupidity. How many Israelites could have had a mushroom experience before they escaped Egypt? None, hencethe name Manna - meaning What is it? - Whatever it was, it was important enough to preserve for future generations and keep in the Ark of the Covenant.Shrooms in the desert!?! No way. Too dry. Need rain and cow pies. Trust me.--Exodus 16-14 And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground... Frost? Dew? Wilderness? Is this a desert?? Need grass, trees and moisture. Trust me.As for cows, well (to quote that web-page about Manna) again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.the taste of it was like wafers made with honey(l6:31)...Wrong!After trying EVERY conceivable methos of eating those babies without gagging, the ONLY way we ever found that was tasteless(later in life the taste of freeze dried Kubensis didn't even really bother us that much any more), is to make a REAL ice cream shake out of them. That is the ONLY way that we ever found that even the slightest taste of them is not detectable...and we triedALL KINDS of things using honey in my dayto no avail!--Wrong!I have mushrooms that have been soaking in honey for many months (that's what blue honey is), you don't even need to eat the mushrooms, just the honey will do; but if you did you would not taste anything but sweet honey. Is there any other natural preservative other than honey?John 6-56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.He is saying pretty clearly that the eating and drinking is physical. My body is flesh indeed, and My blood is drink indeed, and the added statement that when you eat, it is inside of you leaves little room for debate that this is a substance and not a phantom symbol alone. For those who choose to debate this I ask that they show me their substance because according to Jesus' words unless you eat and drink of IT you have no life in you. By the way, do I really need to mention that this is not some strange reference to Cannibalism? I sure hope not.John 6-31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.John 6-32 Then Jesus said unto them, verily verily I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my father giveth you the true bread from heaven.John 6-34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.John 6-35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life.John 6-41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I
Re: [CTRL] Cosmic Awareness speaks 1
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- hi eartthperson, this is great stuff. As you know I am in Waco and have been studying the Waco Indians in my efforts to find answers to the Holocaust of the Davidians. One of the mysteries concerning these people is what happen to them. Where did they go? Well Chief BOWELS who staged the 1828 massacre of the waco's for Steve Austin, said that he could not defeat the WACOS BECAUSE THEY HAD A HOLE THEY WOULD GO INTO . HE REPORTS THAT THE OPENNING WAS SMALL, BUT INSIDE IT WAS HUGE AND CAVERN LIKE. THE ENTERANCE TO THIS CAVERN WAS AT 8TH AND COLUMBUS STS DOWN TOWN WACO this CAVERN WAS ALSO THEIR TEMPLE. TODAY IT IS A TEMPLE TOO. IT IS LODGE #86 THE THE GRAND LODGE OF THE MASONS OF TEXAS! ANDREW -Original Message- From: earthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:14 AM Subject: [CTRL] Cosmic Awareness speaks 1 -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Whoa, what a read. Peter Subject: Further News About The Grand Canyon Temple.Feb. 1, 2000. In the past I have posted information about the discovery of a temple in the Grand Canyon. I also posting items from a lady called Mysty Moon who went into this temple a few years ago. Now there is some information from an intelligence called The COSMIC AWARENESS that I will post at this time. The information it puts out is channeled material. Some people hate channeled material. Some people don't like for me to make the statement, "This is channeled material so be careful." Other people hate the writing of the COSMIC AWARENESS because it repeats the statement, COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates." If one or all of these things upset you then please don't read this material. . . COSMIC AWARENESS SECTION: That is the story that appeared in the Phoenix Gazette, April 5, 1909. Would Awareness comment on that and whether basically the information is true? COSMIC AWARENESS: This Awareness indicates the information is correct. This Awareness has previously discussed underground caverns that run throughout the earth. This Awareness indicates that this civilization was a remnant of that which has been termed Lemurian civilization: The Lemurian civilization being essentially in the Pacific as its own origin, and it had some spreading in the direction of the present area referred to as the Oriental world. There is also an opening in these underground caverns in Egypt; that Atlantis contained an opening into these underground caverns and that they do connect into Tibet and that which is called Shamballah. This Awareness indicates that many of these underground caverns or what may be termed "underground highways" have been blocked although many areas are open. This Awareness indicates that some of these also go down into South America. This Awareness indicates that the entities, the American Indians, particularly the Hopi, are descendants of entities who once lived in these underground caverns. This Awareness indicates it has been theorized that the American Indians have an origin in the China or Asian continent. This Awareness suggests that the theory is that they came across the area of Alaska. This Awareness wishes to suggest, however, that some of these entities came through tunnels that went beneath the Pacific to Lemuria, of which the Hawaiian islands are a part, and on to the North American continent. This Awareness indicates that these underground caverns were once part of a great world civilization that included high technology from extraterrestrial civilizations. How the Great Flood Was Created The Titans, the Atlans, the Lemurians and many others of the time did travel underground through these subterranean fields or caverns and also had space travel. Much of this was destroyed after the conflicts that occurred in what may be termed a kind of space war or extraterrestrial war, when the firmament was likewise destroyed and that great flood was created. The flood was created from the melting of the polar caps through the use of certain extraterrestrial technologies. Earth Changes Split Huge Cavern In Two This Awareness indicates that the Grand Canyon was a schism that occurred from the result of enormous earth shifts and broke apart a cavern that went through this area. If one could examine the opposite side of the canyon, downstream, one could find the continuance of this cavern, except that the canyon has been sealed from the shifts of the rocks and the movement of the plates so that it is not directly opposite the wall of the canyon. This Awareness indicates that it does carry on from the shearing-off action of the Grand Canyon, where the walls were the result of a shift and
[CTRL] LAMB LIKE BEAST
Title: Why the Waco Holocaust Matters THE CLINTON MURDERS OF WACO AND THOSE THAT ARE HELPING THE COVER-UP SHOULD LOOK CLOSELY AT THESE FACES FOR ONE DAY SOON THEY WILL SEE THEM AND BE ASHAMED FOREVER MORE. Why the Waco Holocaust Matters Jennifer Andrade, age 21 at death. Melissa Morrison, age 6 at death. Among those who died during the Waco Holocaust. When barbarities are practiced by a government, civilized people must stand up and say STOP! lest the whole society be consumed by barbarism. Over the cornice of the US Supreme Court these words are etched: Equal Justice Under LawTo fair-minded Americans, those words apply to both the Branch Davidians and their murderers. As a society, we do not let murderers go free, for experience shows they will murder again. Under a system of equal justice, when physical and circumstantial evidence indicates a person has committed a crime, he or she is indicted and brought before a jury. So it should be: one rule of law for all. The American Revolution specifically rejected the concept of the Divine Right of Kings. The American revolutionaries believed that legitimate political power arose from each and every individual person, and was delegated by them to government. The government was to be a servant of the people. Under this system, servants of the people (the government) have no Divine Right to murder their employers (the citizens). Thomas Jefferson said that the tree of liberty is nourished by the blood of tyrants and the blood of patriots. We citizens of the US will not be intimidated into silence or acquiescence. We are the inheritors of the American Revolution. By this crime, the US government proclaimed itself to be the enemy of the people. When the executive branch of government turns to murdering the citizens, what redress do the citizens have? Who will arrest and try a murderous general, and who will arrest and try a murderous attorney general? Congress could have taken a number of immediate remedial actions. It could have conducted an honest, vigorous investigation. It could have immediately reduced funding to the agencies involved by the amount spent. It could have disbanded the units involved, fired the personnel, and prohibited them evermore from federal benefits and employment. It could have impeached the military and civilian officials involved; it could have seen that a Special Prosecutor was appointed, and vigorous prosecutions conducted. When the Congressional hearings on Waco took place in the summer of 1995, many Americans hoped that an honest investigation would be done. But Congress suppressed the evidence and became accessories to the crime. For less evidence than you see on these pages, ordinary people are convicted and sentenced to death. After World War II, the Allies prosecuted defeated Germans for alleged crimes against German citizens. What hypocrisy makes the world community turn its face from the American crimes against the Branch Davidians? Six years after the atrocity, not one of the murderers has been indicted. Americans no longer live under the rule of law. That is why Americans are arming themselves, to protect their families against the outlaws, whether the outlaws wear the uniforms of the US military or law enforcement. Look at the evidence against the US military and law enforcement. We have documented their outrageous lies. We have the evidence of their murders. We have the autopsy reports, we have photos of the twisted bodies, of the tortured, gassed, mutilated, and burned. Righteous people of the world: Look! You are the jury. Look at our shame! Next: How to Tour the Museum Home: Museum Entrance Alert! Yet another attempt to cover up the the Waco Holocaust. Read about the new hoax documentary, Waco: The Rules of Engagement in the Museum's Burial Gallery. Published by Public Action, Inc, a news and news analysis service. All commercial rights are reserved. A full statement of terms and conditions for copying and redistribution is available in the Museum Library. Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum, SkyWriter, and the sky writing logo are trademarks of Public Action, Inc. http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum or http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum [EMAIL PROTECTED] All original material is copyright 1996-1997 by Carol A. Valentine, on loan to Public Action, Inc. Postal Address: Carol A. Valentine, PO Box 10933, Burke, VA 22009 This page last updated April 2, 1999
Re: [CTRL] My beliefs
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Alice, I have attended Colleges and Universities in Pennsylvania in the past. In these "schools" I have studied comparative religions ,Philosophy, Physics,Arabic, English, law and psychology. When I said that I didn't "know" the Books of God I meant that to "know" is a very unique state of consciousness. It is what Kant called becoming "the thing in and of itself". I, as a student can see with this light that I don't "know" anything, because I am separated from my experience, e.g.The Books of God, by the confusion of the sensory world. David "knew" the Bible, he was a walking and talking Book. Please lets consider what he had to say to see if it makes sense. Andrew -Original Message- From: Tenorlove [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 5:44 AM Subject: Re: My beliefs --- ali andrew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not have a great deal of knowledge of the Bible or any book of God for that matter. My reason for wanting to study "his" message is to see if what my heart sees can be confirmed in the material world. Start with the book of Galatians in the New Testament. THE most important factor in salvation is FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Everything else: good works, end times prophecy, the Great Commission, etc., follows faith. FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST is the foundation, the cornerstone. The rest is built upon that foundation of FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. From that standpoint of FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, everything else falls into place. I will be happy to answer your questions, and help you in your spiritual growth. Vaya con Dios, Alice __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [last-days] John3:16
Now this is news! I am forwarding this to all the people that need to know the nature of this lying government. God is showing us over and over again who Bill Clinton really is, so that there will be no argument on the day of Resurrection. Truth will judge on that day and many will be ashamed. Andrew -Original Message-From: Bob McReynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:45 PMSubject: [last-days] John3:16From: Bob McReynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] John 3:16 Al Gore gave a big speech a couple of weeks ago about how his faith isso important to him. In his attempt to convince the American peoplethat we should consider him for president, he announced that his favoriteBible verse is John 16:3. Of course the speech writer meant John 3:16 butnobody in the Gore camp was familiar enough with Scripture to catch theerror. Do you know what John 16:3 says? And they will do this because they have not known the Father or me. Does the Lord have a sense of humoror what? Please click above to support our sponsor
Re: [CTRL] FLASH!! MD-80 Makes Emergency Landing In Phoenix
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I think people should remember that the air-lines was a major target of FC. Why is no one considering that they are still at work? Or do you believe the government line about FC? Andrew -Original Message- From: Bard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:30 PM Subject: [CTRL] FLASH!! MD-80 Makes Emergency Landing In Phoenix -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- MD-80 Makes Emergency Landing In Phoenix Reportedly Experiences Possible Stabilizer Problem PHOENIX, Updated 2:15 p.m. EST February 2, 2000 -- An American Airlines MD-80 made an emergency landing in Phoenix Wednesday morning after experiencing a possible stabilizer problem. The pilot reported the problem about 20 minutes after taking off for Dallas. The plane immediately turned around and landed safely at Sky Harbor airport in Phoenix. There were no injuries. The passengers boarded another plane to Dallas. The American jet is part of the same series of McDonnell-Douglas planes as the Alaska Airlines plane that went down off the coast of California Monday. The Alaska Airlines MD-83 also apparently had problems with its horizontal stabilizer, which controls the pitch of the aircraft's nose. http://local.mediaone.rr.com/losangeles/partnerframe.html?http://www.channe l2000.com/ Bard A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Gen. Partin Goes Down in Flames
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- One day your work will be honored by the TRUE followers of David Koresh, as they are now hated by his assassins. Andrew -Original Message- From: Carol A. Valentine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 5:08 PM Subject: Gen. Partin Goes Down in Flames Apologies, friends. An odd technical problem cropped up when I tried to submit this a day or so ago. I am making a second attempt. Forgive me if you received this already. === Gen. Partin Goes Down in Flames by Carol A. Valentine Copyright, January 2000 Published by Public Action, Inc. I had a recent exchange with a correspondent who read "Waco Suits for Waco Suckers" in the Burial Gallery of the Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum. You can find a copy at http://www.Public-Action.com/ (See especially sections 4c and 4d, "The Fireball and the Hole" and "General Partin Goes Down in Flames.") This correspondent liked the article well enough, but did not like my treatment of General Partin. He said: Interesting reading, Carol. I think you're too harsh on Partin, however. *Something* made the hole in the roof of the concrete room. It's probable that he hasn't seen the autopsies, and so is only making a reasonable assumption that an explosion on the roof of the room would subject the interior to a spray of concrete rock shrapnel, killing anyone inside who might be alive. In any event, it makes little sense to have him lie about Waco if he's telling the truth about OKC. Consider the points I make in response: Of course we know SOMETHING caused the hole in the roof of the concrete room. But there is a reason Partin was asked. Partin gives those reasons in his affidavit. He spends several paragraphs describing his extensive background in air weapons. "Because of my weapons background, I was asked Gordon D. Novel, and encouraged by The Honorable Ramsey Clark, to do a bomb damage analysis of the reinforced concrete church records vault ..." says Partin. Partin was asked as an expert. Partin was not asked for a "reasonable assumption." He was asked for expert opinion. In his affidavit, Partin gave his *expert* opinion about the hole in the roof of the concrete room and the fireball. As an *expert,* he said the fireball appeared over the roof and was part of the phenomenon that caused the hole. As an *expert* we might expect Partin to base his opinion on the evidence. But the evidence contradicts Partin. The fireball did not appear over the roof of the concrete room. Therefore the fireball was not part of the phenomenon that caused the hole in the roof as Partin inferred. Partin got the location of the fireball wrong, despite easy availability of photographic evidence and layouts of the Mt.Carmel Center. Partin also said the fireball was caused by a breaching charge. So Partin also got the cause of the fireball wrong. Are we supposed to believe Partin wrote and signed an affidavit on the fireball and the hole in the roof without looking at the photographic evidence and layout diagrams, and Partin pontificated about the deaths of the mothers and children without looking at the autopsies? What WAS Partin basing his analysis on, if not the evidence? Ian Goddard e mails? Or does the same military intelligence unit write the scripts for Partin and Goddard? Twice during the last several years I have confronted Partin at public meetings and interrupted him as he was spooning out Waco disinformation ... disinformation about the concrete room and the bodies of the women and children. The first confrontation occurred before dozens of people at the 1997 Surveillance Expo (organized by Jim Ross of Ross Engineering in N. Virginia).When I spoke up, Partin just tried to shut me up. On one occasion Partin addressed the critical issues I raised with these words: "Details, details, details." If details are beyond an explosives expert, I'd hate to be around when one of his bombs go off. They'd probably go off an hour early, in his back pocket. I had a second confrontation with Partin at a meeting of the Sarah McClendon Study Group in Washington DC. The results were pretty much the same. He just ignored my questions and went on with his script. On neither occasions did Partin seem to be even remotely embarrassed. After both events I approached Partin and spoke to him amicably. Because we have known each other slightly over a number of years and because we both live in the N. Virginia area, I invited Partin to my office to have a look at ALL the relevant evidence on my very own computer. Despite my repeated invitations and his knowledge of my phone number, Partin never called me to take me up on the offer. That is, he did not call me until the evening of January 5, 2000. Someone had faxed him a copy of "Waco Suits for Waco Suckers." What did Partin have to say about my representation of him? He had one
Re: [CTRL] important scottish x-file
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Hi Andrew, I have for the last three years been studying X. It is closely related to the Clinton Murders in Waco. Would you like to know how? Andrew -Original Message- From: Andrew Hennessey To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:53 PM Subject: [CTRL] important scottish x-file -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- RUSSELL : important scottish x-file. by Andrew Hennessey I have been researching the ancient secrets of the edinburgh area [scotlands capital] for some time now - for something has been covered up and kept secret here - and in fact I have a briefing on it etc [also as a commercial CD] but thats not the point of this post. I have met a chap called Russell who has had some totally incredible life events. Generally a badly behaved chap in his early years - and prone to being on the wrong side of the law - a Big ball of light came down for Russell one night and took him away. It turns out to be an old friend - who takes him through a vortex and across the other side of the galaxy - where he looks down on the spiral arms of the milky way. The friend shows russell inhabited planets here and there - but there wasn't much happening - then takes him to a planet near the rim of the spiral arm - yes there was something going on there - its a blue glowing light in a dark and dense region - and he could see as he got closer, america - yep - something going on there - and then he could see a glowing cord coming from him stretching down to what looked like scotland - and zap - he was back in his body. He says that at that point he completely forgot who he was - he asked strangers he met who were actually his friends - who am I this time ?? - no I'm not kidding - who am I - he asked ? When he finally got it together after a couple of weeks, a profound change had come over Russell - who - aware of a greater eternity than most of us could imagine sought comfort in the Bible. Over the next few years - the lights would come back to him - as ball lightning he could hold - or expanding into glowing ufos the size of his house - or wandering stars that zapped back and forth at his behest. He would be taken away by these lights - and they would teach him things about the bible. They say that they are the Angels and that they have shown him the 'Host' - fleets of darting lightships - some huge. His friends of course, laughed - thinking him mad - so he took them outside on starlit nights and summoned the ships to him - calling down wandering stars to teach a mocking group of hells Angels as they zapped past them back and forwards at all heights and sizes - and some people who knew him that laughed - have had these lights in their gardens or outside their bedroom windows. One family of four - hid behind a couch. No-one that knows Russell now finds his claims of the returning angels of the host laughable - Russell believes that the host and the angels are currently in the process of turning the world around - bringing down the proud and base. Russell also knows and quotes the Bible with real authority - relating the signs and wonders and vapours of the end days - and the many lights documented in the old testament - to his own experiences. He has gone to the churches to seek wise counsel - but they just laugh and turn him away. Russell sees himself as a 'Watchman' who has a duty to remind people that there is still time to get real and change our ways - for these angels - he has seen in their thousands - as bright flying ships or stars - and they are here to assist in the transition of the human race - as it judges itself and is judged. On Russells wedding day two years ago - there was thunder and lightning and heavy rain - and as he went to church - he said Lord - this is not a day to get married - its so black - two of his light being/ships appeared and seemed to zip across the clouds and horizon and back - and it was as if someone had placed a pane of glass in front of the dark clouds, .. they were held back static above was a blue sky - the sun shining and the rain began evaporating from the churchyard. The strange weather front remained for the duration of the wedding - and when he shook the ministers hand in a parting handshake after the ceremony - the storm recommenced. Russell points out that his home town kirkcaldy - means kirk of the Culdeas meaning church of the workers of God. I point out again the connection with edinburgh and its seven hills and bloodlines, grails, arks, spears of destiny etc etc and the tolkein connection where the returning king who will claim the throne from the stewards or stewarts belongs to the dunedain - 'dunedain' also being edinburghs celtic name [there are many others] The people who have met russell and have been changed by these truths also see these lights and beings - so it is not a phenomena that is confined to Russell, and
[CTRL] My beliefs
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- *ITNOG* Peace and blessing to All, I have been asked by a number of folks about my position on the Seven points of David Koresh's teachings. While my personal belief system it not at issue here, there is a need to state my position in this study. I am a student of the Seven Seals. I believe in all of the prophets I make no difference between them. I think that David was the Word of God and that he brought a great truth to mankind The United States government,lead by Bill Clinton, killed him for that message. I do not have a great deal of knowledge of the Bible or any book of God for that matter. My reason for wanting to study "his" message is to see if what my heart sees can be confirmed in the material world. Andrew A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Brief History (http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/cover/c_page02
Title: Brief History Brief HistoryBetween the days of February 28, 1993 and April 19th, 1993, approximately 80 men, women, and children living peacefully in their home near Waco, Texas, were killed by the combined efforts of the US Defense Department and other government paramilitary units: the US Treasury Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The incident also claimed the lives of four ATF agents. The civilians lived in a religious community called the Mt. Carmel Center. They were called Branch Davidians. The incident began with a military-style raid on February 28, complete with helicopter gunships firing down upon the women's and children's quarters. Then followed a long siege. On April 19, the US government sent tanks to GAS the building where the people lived. The government said they decided to gas the Davidians because they were concerned about the sanitary conditions in the house, because they were afraid one of the Davidians, David Koresh, was spanking babies, and because the FBI agents were getting tired. The tanks tore big holes in the walls, drove into the house, and knocked down whole sections of the building. The government said they were only making holes in the building so they could get the gas in, and let the people out. But no Davidians came out. To some, it seemed the tanks were demolishing the Branch Davidians' home while the people were still inside. A fire broke out as the tanks were driving about. The fire became an inferno, lasted 40 minutes and burned the house to the ground. As they watched the inferno on TV, many wondered why they could not see Davidians escaping the burning building. Seventy-five people are said to have perished in the flames. Much public concern was focused on the circumstances surrounding the deaths of the 33 women, children, and babies whose remains were found in a concrete room which served as a pantry and food storage area off the kitchen in the Mt. Carmel Center. Circumstantial and physical evidence suggested to some Americans that the Branch Davidians were deliberately killed by the US government. A video was made which contained TV footage that showed what seemed to be a flame throwing tank backing out of the smashed building, flames coming out of its muzzle. Other footage showed uniformed US military personnel at the scene, and tanks fitted with plowblades pushing debris into the flaming rubble. The video was circulated nation-wide and caused people to become outraged. The US government repeated that the tanks made holes in the building so that the Branch Davidians could come out, but that the Davidians refused to do so, and then committed suicide by setting themselves on fire. Others said that the TV footage of the flame throwing tank was misleading. They said the fire started when the tanks accidentally tipped over some lanterns, and was fed by hay and household fuels that happened to be in the building. A public outcry for full Congressional hearings ensued. Two years to the day after the April 19 fire, the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, where many federal offices were housed, was bombed. The US news services immediately inferred the building was bombed by those who objected to the Waco Holocaust. Waco Holocaust protesters said that the bombing of the Murrah building was most likely the work of the US government, seeking an excuse to extinguish Constitutional liberties, as evidenced by events in Waco. Finally, more than two years after the April 19, 1993 inferno in Waco, Congress held lengthy hearings. The hearings were held with the stated purpose of finding the truth, wherever it lay. It was promised that the hearings would put the Waco controversy to rest. Any serious investigation looks at physical evidence. And it examines that evidence directly. When serious investigators must rely on interpretations, they do not seek out interested parties to give those interpretations. However, Congress ignored most of the available physical evidence. When they did look at evidence, Congress was highly selective. When interpretations were sought, most came from interested parties. And finally, when penetrating questions were asked, government employees were permitted to avoid answering. The Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum will now make available to the public some of evidence that was suppressed by Congress. Next: Why the Waco Holocaust Matters Home: Museum Entrance Alert! Yet another attempt to cover up the Waco Holocaust. Read about the new hoax documentary, Waco: The Rules of Engagement in the Museum's Burial Gallery. Published by Public Action, Inc, a news and news analysis service. All commercial rights are reserved. A full statement of terms and conditions for copying and redistribution is available in the Museum Library. Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum, SkyWriter, and the sky writing logo are
[CTRL] Fw: Frontline: FBI/ATF Raid ELF Spokespersons Home (OR, USA)
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 10:49 PM Subject: Frontline: FBI/ATF Raid ELF Spokespersons Home (OR, USA) Frontline Information Service - Update 2/02/00 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Earth Liberation Front Spokesperson's Home Raided By FBI/ATF Agents;Subpoena Issued For Federal Grand Jury _ URGENT NEWS ADVISORY February 2, 2000 PORTLAND, OR - Earth Liberation Front (E.L.F.) spokesperson, Craig Rosebraugh, had his home raided today by FBI and ATF agents. For nearly six hours agents searched and seized a virtual truckload of property presumably related to Mr. Rosebraugh's work publicizing the actions of the underground E.L.F. Mr. Rosebraugh was also issued a subpoena to testify before a federal grand jury in Portland on February 29, 2000 which is investigating recent actions by the E.L.F. This is Rosebraugh's fifth subpoena he has received to testify before a grand jury in three years. At 8:00am some 15 federal law enforcement personnel from the ATF and FBI entered Rosebraugh's home with guns drawn and a search warrant allowing the search of his home and vehicle. Simultaneously, FBI and ATF agents also raided the offices of Liberation Collective in Portland, where Rosebraugh previously worked. "As it is obvious the law enforcement has no idea who is succeeding with economic sabotage in this country, it seems only fitting that they are going to target and harass the public spokesperson", Rosebraugh commented today. Recent E.L.F. actions have included the destruction of Boise Cascade's regional headquarters in Monmouth, Oregon, the burning of a genetic research program at Michigan State University, and a burning of a new home in Bloomington, IN. For more information contact: Craig Rosebraugh E.L.F. spokesperson (503)284-5432 .. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F R O N T L I N E - N E W S Now With 2100+ Subscribers! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.enviroweb.org/ALFIS/ - Temporary mirror Brought to you by www.animal-liberation.net - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Questions? Please read our FAQ before e-mailing us. http://www.enviroweb.org/ALFIS/about/faq.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Would you like to Unsubscribe or Subscribe to the Frontline-News mailing list? http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=frontline-news - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - For general questions, feedback and requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - For problems with Frontline-News Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Frontline Information Service/animal-liberation.net administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP keys available at: http://www.enviroweb.org/ALFIS/about/pgpkey.asc Animal Liberation Frontline Information Service Bringing you uncensored news from around the world since 1994 __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] The Work
What is the work YOU are becoming? "If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787. ME 6:58 A man traversed land and sea to check for himself the Master's extraordinary fame. "What miracles has your Master worked?" he said to a disciple. "Well, there are miracles and miracles. In your land it is regarded as a miracle if God does someone's will. In our country it is regarded as a miracle if someone does the will of God." Anthony De Mello, SJ "The highest reward for a man's toil is not what he gets for it but what he becomes by it." -John Ruskin
[CTRL] Clinton Murders in Waco
*ITNOG* The Murderers of Waco: Who are the murders of Waco? Was it just a few men who got out of hand? Was it a sick general or maybe even a sick congressman? Or was it the work of the Beastly Reno. If you answered yes to any of these, you are right and dead wrong. They are all guilty, but their leader is Bill Clinton the mass murder of Waco. He is what David called the Abomination that Maketh Desolate. Most of us did not need Waco to know that Bill Clifton is an abomination as a human being, but now that we have Waco before our eyes only the evilest of people will stand with him. The murderers of Waco are a complex group of military, civilian, political and media people who have chosen to give their lives to the Beast. They knowingly killed these people and are now knowingly attempting to kill our minds with misinformation anchored in emotionalism. Through media confusion like the bleeding heart work of McNaulty we are stimulated with anger and guilt to demand justice. But justice for what? For setting them of fire and shooting some of them when they ran out the back of the building? The truth has been reduced to nothing and the people eat the refuse of the murders that they vomit through out the media. Our attention is directed away from the truth of the murders through the vaudeville act in the courts at this time, see: Waco Suits for Waco Sucker. http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/burial/page/b_wsws.html The media is Bill Clinton's favorite weapon of mass destruction. With it he has left millions brain dead. The article below is written by one of the saddest murders involved with the slaughter from before February 28,1993. His name is MARK ENGLAND. This is the guy that started the Sinful messiah series the day before the attack. Here is a criminal that we know had prior knowledge of the coming Holocaust in which he was to play the roll of mentally conditioning the public to accept the torture of children.and yet he walks the street un-chained and un-charged because...he did a damn good job of it. So good is he at confusion that he writes all most everything connected to the Branch Davidians in the Waco Tribune. Because of his ability to lead people astray he is working over time these days to get people to swallow the current Clinton lies. Most of all Clinton wants that we should be happy. If we look at the truth we will not be happy we will demand that he be arrested and tried for the murders of these innocent people. What really happened here? Well for the most part we don't know, because the EVIDENCE surrounding this crime has been destroyed by the murders and what is left of it that proves that it was murder in the first degree is being suppressed. David Koresh taught for year that this government would kill him. He said that when that would happen the people that are with him will be kill also. And he showed in the Book that the children would be cut to pieces before the eyes of their parents, Some of what he prophesied can be witnessed to by our very eyes. As for the dismemberment of the children we can only speculate. At least that is what the Clinton Murders would have us believe. The truth is that the evidence proves that they were dismembered. Some people were found without heads! In the coroner report we are told that there where piles of body parts! Clinton does not want us to look at the evidence so we are given the Waco Suits For Waco Suckers and the babblegarff of MARK ENGLAND . He present one story and tries to pass it off as news of a disagreement among witnesses. There is no disagreement. The Gov... says why they were doing it and the witnesses say how and why. MARK ENGLAND wants us to believe that there is a problem because the government is not admitting that they wanted to gas the men ,woman and babies by entering the back of the building. Why would they care if you thought that. Week after week we watched silently as babies were being tortured. And even now with all we know Bill Clinton is allowed to walk the streets a free man. So if they could tortured them before our eyes and we said nothing why should there be a problem saying they went in the gym to put more gas in?. This is NON-NEWS. MARK ENGLAND knows as well as anybody that is studying the Clinton Murders of Waco that the gym is NOT in line with the tower. In that little bit of information and its implications is NEWS. Andrew Mark England can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 757-5744. From: DjL [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.accesswaco.com/auto/feed/news/local/2000/01/29/949181398.08003.0971.0489.htmlFBI employees dispute government's explanation for actions at MountCarmelBy MARK ENGLAND Tribune-Herald staff writerFBI employees dispute the government's official explanation forrippingapart the Branch Davidians' gym as detailed in the Department ofJustice's1993 report on
Re: [CTRL] WACO BOMB Update
Title: Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum: Fire Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum:FireCatalogue of EvidenceFireball over Mt. Carmel Center on April 19, 1993 (Time Magazine, May 3, 1993). Military experts say this explosive phenomena is characteristic of Special Ops demolitions, effected by detonating 55-gallon drums of jet fuel. The Justice Department Report makes no mention of this fireball (see section The Fire, pgs. 295-304). Fire is so efficient at erasing things, it is very popular as a means of hiding the evidence of murder . . . --Douglas Ubelaker, Curator of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institute, top consultant to the FBI in Waco, quoted in Bones, A Forensic Detective's Casebook,pgs. 140-141. September 5, 1999--A magician focuses the attention of the audience by twirling the hat in his right hand. His audience is so distracted by the hat, they do not notice his left hand, in plain sight, performing the magic trick. That is what is happening now in the new revelations about the inferno that engulfed the Mt. Camel Center in Waco, Texas on April 19, 1993. Whatever you do, don't look at the fire! says the magician. Look here instead, at the debate over pyrotechnic tear gas canisters! We look. Outrageous, we say. Look, the FBI was only trying to get the Davidians to come out, but they used the wrong canisters and caused this huge house fire . . . And the magician gets away with the trick, yet again. Ever since April 19, 1993, the US has presented the fire at the Mt. Carmel Center as one BIG house fire. Various explanations for the fire were given. Cover story Number One: The Davidians set their own house on fire. Not everybody believed it. Then we heard cover stories 2.0 and 2.5, the Mrs. Murphy and cow explanations: Tanks knocked over kerosene lamps inside Mt. Carmel, the kerosene spilled onto the hay, the hay caught fire and set the house on fire. That story did not sell too well, either. There never was a satisfactory explanation of why the Davidians -- Bible students -- kept hay in their house. Many members of the public smelled bull. All of these explanations, and now the current ones, are designed to deflect the public's attention from the obvious truth. The Mt. Carmel inferno was not a house fire. It was started deliberately by the US military, the Special Operations Command, to cover its murders of the Branch Davidians. The fire at the Mt. Carmel Center was a Special Operations demolition fire, and it was fueled by petroleum. Let's have a look at the evidenceHere are some pictures of the ruins: US News and World Report, May 3, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Chicago Tribune, April 21, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Aerial view of the Mt. Carmel ruins Notice that we can not see even the skeleton of the house. The fire lasted 40-45 minutes. It burned with extraordinary intensity. No beams. No rafters. Nada. Nothing. This was no ordinary house fire. Now let's have a closer look at the Mt. Carmel Center before the fire, and note its architectural features. Take a viewpoint facing the front of the building. Notice that the three story residential tower in the center of the structure; notice that immediately behind that tower and to the left there is empty space and a swimming pool. To the right there is a gymnasium. US News/World Report, May 3, 1993: Model of Mt. Carmel on final day Chicago Tribune, April 21: Diagram of Mt. Carmel site before the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Diagram of Mt. Carmel Center Treasury Report: Mt. Carmel before raid Now look at this picture of the Mt. Carmel Center during the inferno, and notice that this empty space and swimming pool area immediately behind and to the left of the three story tower is aflame. Newsweek, May 17, 1993: Aerial view of the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Newsweek, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire (later photo) Soldier of Fortune, July, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Time, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire Time, May 3, 1993: Ground level view of the fire (reduced image of above) Notice the height of those flames! Such magic! Surely only the most gifted magician could get empty space to burn like that! But, no, Josephine. Swimming pools and bare ground don't burn unless someone applies a flammable agent. Now go through those photos again and look at the color of the smoke. Yes, the smoke--all of it -is pitch black. Even the smoke coming from the burning, empty ground immediately behind and to the left of the three story tower . . . Black smoke is characteristic of a petroleum fire. Click on a page in oil-well fire fighter Red Adiar's web page: http://www.redadair.com/thriller.html Kuwait was stripped and set on fire by the retreating Iraqi troops during the final days of the Gulf War. Black smoke filled the sky . . . Read
