Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] IS AMERICA ABOUT TO BE PULSED?
-Caveat Lector- What the Chicken Little poster below fails to note is the time stamp on the radar loop, showing that it is a timeframe lasting approx. 90 minutes, starting at 7:45 CST and ending at 9:13 CST...each frame of the animation was captured at 10 minute intervals, hardly a DETAILED rendition of events. If the streak on the lower portion of the image is supposed to be the HAARP scalar weapon in action, then it is 'aimed' at the DFW area some 15 minutes BEFORE the shuttle arrived in the area, and remains there for over an hour after the shuttle crashed... This 'theory' also ignores the fact that at least one eyewitness reported seeing the shuttle start to break up over CALIFORNIA, and indeed last night NASA was calling for people to be on the lookout for shuttle debris not only in Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi, but also in California, Arizona, and New Mexico -- which suggests that NASA itself believes the disaster started BEFORE the shuttle reached the DFW area...A more worthwhile track of speculation/discussion is just WHY have the PTBs declared it a FEDERAL LAW probibiting anyone to even TOUCH any of the debris? We're not talking about proscribing TAKING the debris for souveniers or to sell on EBAY (a media story yesterday which I suspect was a plant -- as are all the 'we have many sick people reporting to area hospitals who got too close to the debis' stories -- to help vilify anyone actually touching/taking debris), we're talking that if someone finds a piece of debris in the middle of their driveway and shoves it to the side so that they can get their vehicle out of their garage, then they have broken a federal law. We can also discuss how subservient the national media is regarding this -- lots of bios about the astronauts, lots of talking heads stationed at various NASA sites wringing their collective hands and wailing 'woe is me', but nothing INVESTIGATIVE regarding the crash and what may have caused it. The media slaves have a few minor reporters 'on site', but none of them are actually out in the field filming debris, they're all in the center of some little, quaint Texas town talking about what is going to be done, but not daring to actually SHOW anything...This morning one of the news channels reported that the airspace over the suspected debris path has been declared off-limits, suggesting that there is definitely something they don't want the public to know; and the local head of the disaster recovery unit gave a press conference in which she assured that they, the locals, would do absolutely nothing until FEMA gets on the scene and takes over...The shuttle crash most likely IS 'just' an accident (never assign to 'conspiracy' that which can more easily be assigned to 'incompetence' and 'laziness')...but the REACTION to this disaster is the "heads up" for what is to come -- national agencies abrogating the power of local and state agencies, and the media complacently reporting what the national agencies tell them to report...Not that it was very much different before -- it is just so very much more blatent now...June - Original Message - From: Dr. Byron Weeks To: Paranoid Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:18 PM Subject: National Weather Service Radar Image - Short Range Composite Reflectivity - Dal Watch yellow beam--HAARP (Tesla) scalar weapon in Dallas at the time of the Columbia debacle? http://www.srh.noaa.gov/radar/loop/DS.p37cr/si.kfws.shtml IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory
Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] IS AMERICA ABOUT TO BE PULSED?
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: RevCOAL [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip A more worthwhile track of speculation/discussion is just WHY have the PTBs declared it a FEDERAL LAW probibiting anyone to even TOUCH any of the debris? We're not talking about proscribing TAKING the debris for souveniers or to sell on EBAY (a media story yesterday which I suspect was a plant -- as are all the 'we have many sick people reporting to area hospitals who got too close to the debis' stories -- to help vilify anyone actually touching/taking debris), we're talking that if someone finds a piece of debris in the middle of their driveway and shoves it to the side so that they can get their vehicle out of their garage, then they have broken a federal law. -- A variety of opinions from the Politech list - I copied the most relevant part to the top of this post: From: CoolAl027 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 23:47:14 -0600 2/1/03 7:00:09 PM, Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Legal question: If a piece of shuttle debris falls on my land, does it become my property? I assume not. --Declan] Declan, Throughout the numerous times that they advised the public about not touching debris due to the toxicity, CNN occasionally tossed in a line along the lines that not only is it dangerous but illegal as well. From what I found as well, it appears this happened with the Challenger a couple years ago ( http://www.space.com/news/challenger_wreckage_010128.html ) and from what they told Charles Starowesky, who tried selling it online, that it is illegal to own as well as sell the debris according to US Code Title 18 Sec. 641 ( http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/641.html) Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or... The reason being according to Space.com is that: As NASA never relinquished ownership of the spacecraft, possession of Challenger debris translates to theft of government property. All parts recovered today are interred with the original wreckage in two abandoned missile silos at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. So since they never severed ownership rights, it still is technically government property which is what the law applies to. Not only that, but like they said, since the Challenger investigation had been completed long before 2001, who knows what (if any) help this might have provided to investigators at the time. Probably the most sick and disturbing part is the intent of some individual (regardless of ignorance to the law) is that they would be profiting off of a national tragedy quite blatantly without any regard to life over money. Brian -- Complete Politech post: --- Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 19:58:01 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew G. Saroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FC: Space shuttle Columbia disintegrated during descent today For what it's worth, I am a mechanical engineer, who has worked with SAMS and artillery rockets, but this is my assesment of the incicent, feel free to forward to politech: What I've heard at this point, along with the video of the breakup, indicates a failure of the thermal protection system. There were changes in the pressure of the left main tires consistent with heating, and the drop in hydraulic pressure is consistent with the fluid boiling. -- Matthew G. Saroff Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. --- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: More on Space Shuttle Columbia disaster earlier today Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:10:13 +0530 Organization: -ENOENT On Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:43 AM [GMT+0530=IST], Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know Dian, but Terry is a longtime and valued subscriber to Politech. NASA still has Dian's bio online, which says she was a propellant engineer: http://ltp.arc.nasa.gov/women/bios/dh.html A previous crash (the Challenger) introduced me to one of my favorite poems - High Flight, by a world war II fighter pilot - John Gillespie Magee. It deserves a rerun now :) http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/276.html srs --- From: Bradford A. Patrick, Esq. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Shuttle - legal. Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:45:47 -0800 RE: Falling shuttle debris A space shuttle, in whole or in part, is not exactly what you would call lost or abandoned property. Many people are looking for it. Finder's keepers doesn't work against Uncle Sam. -Brad Bradford A. Patrick, Esq. Preg O'Donnell Gillett PLLC 1800 Ninth Ave., Suite 1500 Seattle, WA 98101-1340 (206) 287-1775 wk
Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] IS AMERICA ABOUT TO BE PULSED?
-Caveat Lector- US Code Title 18 Sec. 641 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/641.html)"Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use orthe use of another, or without authority, sells,conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of theUnited States or of any department oragency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for theUnited States or any department or agency thereof; or..."The reason being according to Space.com is that:"As NASA never relinquished ownership of the spacecraft, possession ofChallenger debris translates to theft of government property. Okay, so there's a US Code covering recovering debris of 'government property', but this is at odds with the historical 'law of the sea' (which should have set precedent, especially in the recovery of the Challenger debris which all fell in the ocean) that any 'wreck' or portion thereof becomes the property of either whomever expends the time and effort to recover it, or it becomes the property of the owner of any land it happens to wash up on...but what the hell, since the PTB no longer care about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, why should International Law cause them any concern?It seems to me that above a certain height, space should become 'international waters' -- or does the U.S. government claim ownership of ALL space that happens to lie above any U.S. land?If a U.S. battleship sank out in the open sea, would the U.S. government prosecute anyone who dived to the site of the sunken ship and recovered any items? Would they do so even though international law has historically allowed such operations, stating that those who recover the property become the new owners of such property? If 'transfer of ownership' applies to something that sinks in the open ocean, it should also apply to something in space (altho where 'space' begins would have to be defined, just as 'international waters' are defined)...It would have been interesting to see what would have occured if Columbia fell apart over Libya or Cuba or the interior of China or over some other country not particularly friendly with the U.Show would the U.S. go about prosecuting locals who gathered up debris and decided to either keep it or sell it to the highest bidder...?June . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] IS AMERICA ABOUT TO BE PULSED?
-Caveat Lector- Your analogy fails to reflect this situation, since the debris is not suspended up in the atmosphere (which would be equivalent to your law of the sea 'internation waters' argument) and being salvaged from there. In this case the battleship washed ashore (albeit in pieces) and thus salvage rights under any maritime precedent are not applicable. - Original Message - From: RevCOAL To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] IS AMERICA ABOUT TO BE PULSED? -Caveat Lector- US Code Title 18 Sec. 641 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/641.html)"Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use orthe use of another, or without authority, sells,conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of theUnited States or of any department oragency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for theUnited States or any department or agency thereof; or..."The reason being according to Space.com is that:"As NASA never relinquished ownership of the spacecraft, possession ofChallenger debris translates to theft of government property. Okay, so there's a US Code covering recovering debris of 'government property', but this is at odds with the historical 'law of the sea' (which should have set precedent, especially in the recovery of the Challenger debris which all fell in the ocean) that any 'wreck' or portion thereof becomes the property of either whomever expends the time and effort to recover it, or it becomes the property of the owner of any land it happens to wash up on...but what the hell, since the PTB no longer care about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, why should International Law cause them any concern?It seems to me that above a certain height, space should become 'international waters' -- or does the U.S. government claim ownership of ALL space that happens to lie above any U.S. land?If a U.S. battleship sank out in the open sea, would the U.S. government prosecute anyone who dived to the site of the sunken ship and recovered any items? Would they do so even though international law has historically allowed such operations, stating that those who recover the property become the new owners of such property? If 'transfer of ownership' applies to something that sinks in the open ocean, it should also apply to something in space (altho where 'space' begins would have to be defined, just as 'international waters' are defined)...It would have been interesting to see what would have occured if Columbia fell apart over Libya or Cuba or the interior of China or over some other country not particularly friendly with the U.Show would the U.S. go about prosecuting locals who gathered up debris and decided to either keep it or sell it to the highest bidder...?June . A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
