Re: [CTRL] A genius of film
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 8/15/02 1:22:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Riefenstahl was never Hitler's lover; you seem to be confusing her with Eva Braun, or accepting the WWII-era Allied slander/propaganda regarding Riefenstahl as fact.. There was some talk that Eva Braun wasn't even Hitler's lover. That doesn't mean he didn't love her, but there was strong suspicion that Hitler was impotent. Seems like many of the rich and powerful are plagued with what some Brit said when discussing the father of the present monarch, trouble with his willy, you know.Prudy A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A genius of film
-Caveat Lector- From: thewI don't know. Being Hitler's lover, a fact omitted from this article,certainly says something. I'm not sure what, but something.Riefenstahl was never Hitler's lover; you seem to be confusing her with Eva Braun, or accepting the WWII-era Allied slander/propaganda regarding Riefenstahl as fact June __Created and best viewed with IncrediMail!Get your free copy at: www.incredimail.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A genius of film
Title: Re: [CTRL] A genius of film -Caveat Lector- I am not confusing her with Eva are you so sure Hitler was monogamous? I think leni was a brilliant filmmaker, I love her stuff shows the power of film to both convey beauty and ideas at the same time, without sacrificing either. But her claims of not knowing how the films were to be used, or what the message she so brilliantly conveyed was is poo-poo. It does not matter if she was a nazi or not just as it doesnt matter if anyone on the Manhattan project was a pacifist. Its the results that count. As to her sleeping with Hitler I dont see who is being slandered I guess I dont see sex as evil, compared to say, creating beautiful art that glorifies the achievements of the master race, and justifies a program of wiping the inferior. At any rate she traveled in Hitler's private train, was consulted privately by him quite often, and wielded a lot of power in the Nazi central command. Does this mean she was fucking him? Does it matter? on 8/15/02 10:31 AM, RevCOAL at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: thew I don't know. Being Hitler's lover, a fact omitted from this article, certainly says something. I'm not sure what, but something. Riefenstahl was never Hitler's lover; you seem to be confusing her with Eva Braun, or accepting the WWII-era Allied slander/propaganda regarding Riefenstahl as fact June __ Created and best viewed with IncrediMail! Get your free copy at: www.incredimail.com http://www.incredimail.com/imstamp.html A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A" DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlArchives" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A" To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth. Henrik Ibsen NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A genius of film
-Caveat Lector- I don't know. Being Hitler's lover, a fact omitted from this article, certainly says something. I'm not sure what, but something. on 8/10/02 6:16 AM, Euphorian at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-379192,00.html Opinion August 10, 2002 A genius of film forever in the frame with the Nazis ben macintyre In 1926, Adolf Hitler watched a silent film entitled The Sacred Mountain, one of the mystical Teutonic mountain epics then in vogue. He was particularly captivated by a scene in which a striking young actress named Leni Riefenstahl performed an airy seaside dance, a sort of Aryan Beauty and the Beach. Eight years later, he asked the 32-year-old Riefenstahl, by then an acclaimed and accomplished film-maker in her own right, to make a movie of the Nazi Party¹s annual mass rally at Nuremberg. ³I am not looking for a newsreel,² Hitler reportedly told her, ³but an artistic document.² He got what he wanted: the greatest work of art to emerge from Nazism, a fascinating fascist masterpiece of propaganda, a creation of the highest art in the service of the basest politics. Riefenstahl¹s films are seldom screened now, and never without controversy, but the techniques of cinematography she pioneered have endured, as has Riefenstahl herself, the most troubling artist of the 20th century, and an enduring enigma. On August 22 Leni Riefenstahl will be 100 years old. Her birthday sees the premiere of Impressions Under Water, a 45-minute documentary shot beneath the Indian Ocean, her first film for 50 years. Meanwhile the film-maker will soon get the full bio-epic treatment herself, with Jodi Foster in the title role. None of this attention is likely to make Riefenstahl any easier to understand for, as Ray Müller showed in his brilliant 1993 documentary film The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl, this is a biography of tense internal contradiction: between beauty and truth, aesthetics and politics, art and manipulation. Nazism might have lacked much of its lethal (and enduring) glamour without Riefenstahl, but the art of cinema would have been far poorer. Riefenstahl made two films during the Third Reich Triumph of the Will, depicting the 1934 Nuremberg rallies, and Olympia, about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Both were inspired, inspiring and horrible. From the opening shot of the Fuhrer¹s plane descending from the golden heavens, Triumph of the Will is the ultimate artistic realisation of the Nazi ideal, an iconography of totalitarianism depicted in ways that were then revolutionary, mixing staged with genuine footage. Brownshirts on the march, forming great fiery swastikas in the Nuremberg night with their flaming torches; enraptured young faces, upturned to the light. The effect is both entrancing and repulsive. In Olympia, Riefenstahl¹s art is still more remarkable. The New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael judged Riefenstahl ³one of the dozen or so creative geniuses who have ever worked in the film medium². Olympia is a 220-minute elegy to the human athletic form. True, she dwells lovingly on Jesse Owens, black hero of a supposedly inferior race, but finally this is a film about victory, conquest and power, the attempted theft of the Greek Olympic ideal by the would-be Master Race. Its opening sequence includes a shot of the nude athletic form of Riefenstahl herself, arms outstretched to greet the new dawn. That image is one of the most beautiful and powerful in cinema, and one of the most disturbing. Riefenstahl and her defenders insist she pursued beauty only as an aesthetic ideal; but in the hands of the Nazis, the pursuit of beauty was the justification for oppression and murder on a Olympic scale. How far was Riefenstahl complicit in Nazism? She never joined the party, was strongly defended by her many Jewish friends and even claimed to have challenged Hitler¹s racist views. She maintained that she had produced pure art, on to which Nazi politics had been grafted. In a similar way Friedrich Nietzsche¹s writings were hijacked by Nazism with the connivance of his grisly sister Elisabeth. ³What did I do that was political? Riefenstahl demanded in a 1965 interview, while maintaining that Triumph of the Will is artistic reportage. ³It reflects the truth that was then, in 1934, history. It is therefore a documentary, not a propaganda film.² That adamantly maintained naivete is what ultimately condemns Leni Riefenstahl, a vaunted disingenuousness that simply does not chime with the vivid intelligence of her art. Nietzsche had been insane for years by the time his complex thoughts were mangled into simplistic fascism; Riefenstahl¹s acute eye and consciousness run through every frame of her evocation of Nazism on film. All art is political; Riefenstahl¹s art was unmistakably, emphatically so, but unlike, say,
[CTRL] A genius of film
-Caveat Lector- From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-379192,00.html Opinion August 10, 2002 A genius of film forever in the frame with the Nazis ben macintyre In 1926, Adolf Hitler watched a silent film entitled The Sacred Mountain, one of the mystical Teutonic mountain epics then in vogue. He was particularly captivated by a scene in which a striking young actress named Leni Riefenstahl performed an airy seaside dance, a sort of Aryan Beauty and the Beach. Eight years later, he asked the 32-year-old Riefenstahl, by then an acclaimed and accomplished film-maker in her own right, to make a movie of the Nazi Partys annual mass rally at Nuremberg. I am not looking for a newsreel, Hitler reportedly told her, but an artistic document. He got what he wanted: the greatest work of art to emerge from Nazism, a fascinating fascist masterpiece of propaganda, a creation of the highest art in the service of the basest politics. Riefenstahls films are seldom screened now, and never without controversy, but the techniques of cinematography she pioneered have endured, as has Riefenstahl herself, the most troubling artist of the 20th century, and an enduring enigma. On August 22 Leni Riefenstahl will be 100 years old. Her birthday sees the premiere of Impressions Under Water, a 45-minute documentary shot beneath the Indian Ocean, her first film for 50 years. Meanwhile the film-maker will soon get the full bio-epic treatment herself, with Jodi Foster in the title role. None of this attention is likely to make Riefenstahl any easier to understand for, as Ray Müller showed in his brilliant 1993 documentary film The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl, this is a biography of tense internal contradiction: between beauty and truth, aesthetics and politics, art and manipulation. Nazism might have lacked much of its lethal (and enduring) glamour without Riefenstahl, but the art of cinema would have been far poorer. Riefenstahl made two films during the Third Reich Triumph of the Will, depicting the 1934 Nuremberg rallies, and Olympia, about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Both were inspired, inspiring and horrible. From the opening shot of the Fuhrers plane descending from the golden heavens, Triumph of the Will is the ultimate artistic realisation of the Nazi ideal, an iconography of totalitarianism depicted in ways that were then revolutionary, mixing staged with genuine footage. Brownshirts on the march, forming great fiery swastikas in the Nuremberg night with their flaming torches; enraptured young faces, upturned to the light. The effect is both entrancing and repulsive. In Olympia, Riefenstahls art is still more remarkable. The New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael judged Riefenstahl one of the dozen or so creative geniuses who have ever worked in the film medium. Olympia is a 220-minute elegy to the human athletic form. True, she dwells lovingly on Jesse Owens, black hero of a supposedly inferior race, but finally this is a film about victory, conquest and power, the attempted theft of the Greek Olympic ideal by the would-be Master Race. Its opening sequence includes a shot of the nude athletic form of Riefenstahl herself, arms outstretched to greet the new dawn. That image is one of the most beautiful and powerful in cinema, and one of the most disturbing. Riefenstahl and her defenders insist she pursued beauty only as an aesthetic ideal; but in the hands of the Nazis, the pursuit of beauty was the justification for oppression and murder on a Olympic scale. How far was Riefenstahl complicit in Nazism? She never joined the party, was strongly defended by her many Jewish friends and even claimed to have challenged Hitlers racist views. She maintained that she had produced pure art, on to which Nazi politics had been grafted. In a similar way Friedrich Nietzsches writings were hijacked by Nazism with the connivance of his grisly sister Elisabeth. What did I do that was political? Riefenstahl demanded in a 1965 interview, while maintaining that Triumph of the Will is artistic reportage. It reflects the truth that was then, in 1934, history. It is therefore a documentary, not a propaganda film. That adamantly maintained naivete is what ultimately condemns Leni Riefenstahl, a vaunted disingenuousness that simply does not chime with the vivid intelligence of her art. Nietzsche had been insane for years by the time his complex thoughts were mangled into simplistic fascism; Riefenstahls acute eye and consciousness run through every frame of her evocation of Nazism on film. All art is political; Riefenstahls art was unmistakably, emphatically so, but unlike, say, Albert Speer, she has consistently declined to accept the artists moral responsibility or apologise for the enormous influence she had within the Nazi project. Indeed, her entire career has arguably been a self- exculpating effort to prove that art and beauty can be forged in a state of pure
