From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy B. Carmain) I've finally managed to enlarge de Vere's genealogy from the Dragon Order web page, and I must say it gets points for sheer inventiveness. Much of it is absolutely certifiable, i.e the descent from Pepin III and the lineage of the Earls of Oxford (with the possible exception of their descent from the Tuatha de Danaan who are mythological beings). However, de Vere's line seems to be grafted on circa 1139 with a younger son of Alberic de Vere, Count of Guisnes by the name of Robert, who I can't seem to locate in my usual sources. This Robert is purportedly the progenitor of the "Royal Vere of Scotland" line (odd since I've never come across a reference to the de Veres as kings of Scotland), wherein the name was corrupted to "Weir" some centuries later. The unbroken line continues down to the present day through various Lords Weir of Vere (?), who surprisingly aren't noted anywhere in Burke's Peerage, Burke's Landed Gentry, Debrett's Peerage, or Ruvigny's Titled Nobility of Europe. This, according to Prince Nicholas, is the line of the Hereditary Dragon Lords of Sarkany Rend - but he stops short of explaining how a Scots family (and the "Royal" family to boot!) came to head up what he identifies elsewhere as a Hungarian order, established by a German Emperor and consort of a Queen of Hungary who was herself of French ancestry... 'tis a mystery still. The line culminates with "HRH The Princeps Draconis, Nicholas II (?) de Vere, Sovereign Grand Master of the Imperial and Royal Dragon Court, Sarkany Rend, Grand Master of the Knights Templar, and HRH The Prince Drakenberg". It would appear that "Prince" Michael and the Stewarts have been swept aside for the "Weir de Veres". I faxed these charts to a genealogist chum up in San Francisco, as he is fairly up on his faux claimants as well. Surprisingly, my friend called me to say that he had seen these charts before, although the "Weir de Vere" surname was a new inclusion. He identified "Prince Nicholas" as one Tom Weir, a Scotsman who at one time claimed that the Habsburgs were illegitimate and that they had usurped the throne of the Holy Roman Empire from the de Vere dynasty. Aside from the fact that it's a bit difficult to usurp an elective throne, Mr. Weir's contention that the German "W" is pronounced "V", thus Weir=Vere is a bit off. In German, "ei" is pronounced as a long "i", thus if pronounced in German, "Weir" would be pronounced as "Vire", rhyming with "fire". My colleague seems to think that the author of these very imaginative charts is none other than "Sir" Laurence Gardner himself, apparently a close associate of Mr. Weir. Tim Carmain Timothy B. Carmain Business Manager, Mesa Court Housing University of California, Irvine (949) 824-7533 voice, (949) 824-3046 fax ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.albino.com/circle/pos/ - list of priory-related books, associations, and websites .... to unsubscribe, contact list-managers [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
