Re: [CTRL] Israelis, Germans, and Kant
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/8/2003 8:02:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But many jurists and sociologists say that the exports, though completely legal, are very problematic. In Israel, they argue, the exports were decided upon without any public discussion or even any discussion by national committees on medical ethics; while in Germany, the move has elicited considerable public criticism, including from that country's National Ethics Council. Maybe the stem cells are all from Palestinian women and Israeli ethics do not come into the picture. Prudy A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Israelis, Germans, and Kant
-Caveat Lector- on 01/08/03 8:03 PM, flw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Export of human stem cells from Israel to Germany sparks ethical storm Two Israeli institutions, Haifa's Technion Israel Institute of Technology and Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, began exporting stem cells culled from human embryos to Germany this month, arousing a storm of controversy within both countries' scientific and medical communities. snip on 01/09/03 8:54 AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe the stem cells are all from Palestinian women and Israeli ethics do not come into the picture. Prudy Maybe stem cell research is only frowned on by religious fundamental idiots and is one of the most hopeful new bio technologies, with the potential to cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, a host of other genetic diseases, replace lost white blood cells in leukemia and cancer patients, etc, and is something that should be applauded. Are you so close-minded Pru ( I know you are not on other topics) that you cannot say while I dislike Israel's politics, they are leaders in the medical field internationally, and this stem cell stuff gives us all hope? Free your mind and your ass will follow. St George NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Israelis, Germans, and Kant
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:12:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you so close-minded Pru ( I know you are not on other topics) that you cannot say "while I dislike Israel's politics, they are leaders in the medical field internationally, and this stem cell stuff gives us all hope?" Actually I'm not, and you have phrased it exactly right. I just couldn't resist a chance to give a dig. It is hard for me to consider Israel as a country where ethics has a higher place than hatred. Still I am fully aware that many Israeli are people of the highest moral and ethical standards even when the treatment of Palestinians is the issue. Prudy A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Israelis, Germans, and Kant
-Caveat Lector- w w w . h a a r e t z d a i l y . c o m --- - Export of human stem cells from Israel to Germany sparks ethical storm Two Israeli institutions, Haifa's Technion Israel Institute of Technology and Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, began exporting stem cells culled from human embryos to Germany this month, arousing a storm of controversy within both countries' scientific and medical communities. Because stem cells have enormous medical potential, many scientists, doctors and ethicists favor the move, saying the research project for which the cells will be used has the potential not only to advance scientific knowledge, but also to develop new medical treatments that could save many lives. But many jurists and sociologists say that the exports, though completely legal, are very problematic. In Israel, they argue, the exports were decided upon without any public discussion or even any discussion by national committees on medical ethics; while in Germany, the move has elicited considerable public criticism, including from that country's National Ethics Council. Like many other countries, Germany forbids stem cells to be culled from human embryos for research purposes within its own borders. A year ago, however, the Bundestag passed a law permitting human stem cells to be imported in exceptional cases. At the time, the German press pointed out the ethical double standard of this law and the absurdity of permitting an act that is forbidden on German embryos to be carried out on embryos that come from other population groups, notes Yael Hashiloni-Dolev, a lecturer in sociology at Tel Aviv University who is currently writing a doctoral thesis on the application of genetic knowledge in Israel and Germany. The stem cells are being culled by Professor Yosef Itzkowitz-Eldor, the head of Rambam's gynecology department, using the Technion's facilities. The Technion, says Itzkowitz-Eldor, is not being paid; this is a joint scientific venture in which the Technion will receive part ownership of any fruits resulting from the research. The German researcher who is receiving the cells, Dr. Oliver Brustle of Bonn University, is trying to determine how a stem cell can be convinced to develop into an adult nerve cell. Brustle, who has been studying nerve cells and stem cells in rats for many years, hopes that it will eventually be possible to use transplants of nerve cells grown from stem cells to cure diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Brustle has wanted to move on to studying human stem cells for some time, but until last year, German law made this impossible. When the new law permitting imports of stem cells was passed last January, he immediately applied for an import license from an interdisciplinary ethics council. According to the law, this council may grant such licenses only for research of outstanding scientific quality that can not be performed either on animal cells or on adult stem cells (which are found in bone marrow). Last month, Brustle became the first German to receive a permit from the council - a decision that aroused much opposition in Germany. Professor Jens Reich of the Max Delbruck Center for Molecular Medicine in Berlin says the German reluctance to permit research on embryonic stem cells has two main sources. The first is the memory of the Nazis' experiments on human beings. The second is Immanuel Kant's philosophy of ends and means, which has gained wide currency in Germany. This philosophy holds that man is an end in himself and must, therefore, not be used as a tool for achieving aims that do not directly benefit him. Thus, human experimentation is justified only if the subject would benefit personally from the research. Professor Asa Kasher of Tel Aviv University's philosophy department, an expert in bio-ethics, responds that an embryo is not a person, so the Kantian prohibition does not apply. The embryos from which the stem cells are produced are five days old, he says. They look like a microscopic ball of cells and have not yet developed the special characteristics that we perceive as `human.' Furthermore, he argues, the Germans' position deprives many sick people of the possible medical benefits of stem cell research. Perhaps we, the Jews of Israel, are the only ones who can tell them that on this matter, they are exaggerating, he concludes. But Professor Amos Shapira of Tel Aviv University's law faculty, also an expert in medical ethics, disagrees. The German law, he says, is a problematic ethical compromise, along the lines of `we won't do the dirty work, but we will do research if [the dirty work] is done by someone else.' Dr. Carmel Shalev, head of the Gartner Institute's ethics and patients' rights department, adds that whether or not stem cells should be exported, the decision should be made at the national level rather than by individual institutions. By Tamara Traubmann
