Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Gavin Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? But he is basing his assumptions on supposed facts of science. And that is exactly my point. In my Geometry class we began with the assumption that such a thing as a straight line exists. It made proving the theorems fun but there's no proof, for that assumption. And, given the structure of the universe, a straight line is very unlikely to exist. See the work of Buckminster Fuller for a fuller explanation. You are arbritrarily deciding that science is lying about there being no atmosphere on the moon. Yes I am, but so are they. You cannot contradict something without evidence that it is false. Why not? Philip Klass does it every time he opens his mouth, as do many of the highest officials of earth's nations and their military. What gives them the right but not me? We'll never know what is true or false though using your methods. Well, the accepted method usually involves coming to a conclusion BEFORE finding the facts, and only the facts that fit and support the conclusion are then accepted as assumptions. And round and round it goes. These same scientists still probably use the nonexistent concepts of up and down and claim to be sitting still or moving in a straight line. From the big picture of the motion of the universe all those things are not only impossible but ridiculous. These are not my ideas nor are they new. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- re: straight lines in the universe one word - light... -- -- -- -- -- Planet spins - so do I neo-sufi wisdom NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew From: Dale Stonehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:19:17 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? -Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Gavin Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? But he is basing his assumptions on supposed facts of science. And that is exactly my point. In my Geometry class we began with the assumption that such a thing as a straight line exists. It made proving the theorems fun but there's no proof, for that assumption. And, given the structure of the universe, a straight line is very unlikely to exist. See the work of Buckminster Fuller for a fuller explanation. You are arbritrarily deciding that science is lying about there being no atmosphere on the moon. Yes I am, but so are they. You cannot contradict something without evidence that it is false. Why not? Philip Klass does it every time he opens his mouth, as do many of the highest officials of earth's nations and their military. What gives them the right but not me? We'll never know what is true or false though using your methods. Well, the accepted method usually involves coming to a conclusion BEFORE finding the facts, and only the facts that fit and support the conclusion are then accepted as assumptions. And round and round it goes. These same scientists still probably use the nonexistent concepts of up and down and claim to be sitting still or moving in a straight line. From the big picture of the motion of the universe all those things are not only impossible but ridiculous. These are not my ideas nor are they new. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/7/01 7:10:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: one word - light... Light can be and is bent by gravational fields. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- yes it can be, and yes it is - however throughout most of space there are not gravitational fields that strong - stars are very very very far apart so for the most part light travels in a straight line -- - --- - --- --- Complete liberty of contradicting our opinion is the very condition which justifies us in assuming its truth. John Stuart Mill NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew From: Bill Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:36:10 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/7/01 7:10:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: one word - light... Light can be and is bent by gravational fields. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] yes it can be, and yes it is - however throughout most of space there are not gravitational fields that strong - stars are very very very far apart so for the most part light travels in a straight line Gravity is apparently strong enough to bend light around our nearest heavenly body, the Moon, which is most readily observable right before and after a solar eclipse (when the sun peeks 'round the horizon). This simple test was used to prove Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in 1919. - jt A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- inside of gravity wells light bends most of space is sans such wells -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew From: Joshua Tinnin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:41:34 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] yes it can be, and yes it is - however throughout most of space there are not gravitational fields that strong - stars are very very very far apart so for the most part light travels in a straight line Gravity is apparently strong enough to bend light around our nearest heavenly body, the Moon, which is most readily observable right before and after a solar eclipse (when the sun peeks 'round the horizon). This simple test was used to prove Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in 1919. - jt A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/7/01 10:52:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yes it can be, and yes it is - however throughout most of space there are not gravitational fields that strong - stars are very very very far apart so for the most part light travels in a straight line Yes, for today. Who knows what tomarrow will bring. It wasn't that long ago that scientists were saying that bumble bees couldn't fly. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- thew wrote: -Caveat Lector- re: straight lines in the universe one word - light... Naw. Light is a vibration. No straight lines, just very tight wavy lines. -- ´´ Mark McHugh A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- a vibration that's motion tracks in a straight line -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew From: Mark McHugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Líonra Meiriceánach Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:33:10 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon? -Caveat Lector- thew wrote: -Caveat Lector- re: straight lines in the universe one word - light... Naw. Light is a vibration. No straight lines, just very tight wavy lines. -- ´´ Mark McHugh A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- But he is basing his assumptions on supposed facts of science. You are arbritrarily deciding that science is lying about there being no atmosphere on the moon. Find a scientist who agrees with you. You cannot contradict something without evidence that it is false. You can of course make up any story you want to and using your rules so can everybody else. We'll never know what is true or false though using your methods. Gavin --- Dale Stonehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.thule.org/looksaucer.html How could there be diffused light on the moon? on the moon there is no prism of atmosphere to diffuse or bend light so the sky is totally black. Here we have a classic example of someone assuming a desired conclusion and fitting the facts to prove' that conclusion. I can do the same thing; all that is necessary is to change the assumed lie from we went to the moon to the moon has no atmosphere. The author, who is not willing to believe what he was told about the moon landing, is nonetheless unable to question the same authority which also told him the moon has no atmosphere. Did they lie about one and not the other? So if I assume then, that I have been lied to about the moon's atmosphere, I can conclude: 1. There is atmosphere on the moon. 2. Therefore light will be diffused and produce soft shadow and color. 3. Therefore the NASA photos are not faked (at least not for that reason). 4. Therefore NASA astronauts landed on the moon and the photos in question are genuine. See how easy it is? Not that I am happy about either lie; but this illustrates the trap of assuming we know anything or are even capable of knowing things as absolutes. At what temperature does film melt? I asked. One hundred and fifty degrees. But NASA video and film prove the astronauts to be on the moon's surface when the sun was at high noon; the temperature was +250 F. degrees. The film, in the uncooled cameras would melt, Kodak said. Once again the author does not question the accepted surface temperature of the moon but chooses to question other things. The film would indeed not survive that temperature, IF true. So it seems we pick and choose the things we wish to believe. This is a trap set for the human mind that works all too well. The only way out of the trap is to question each and every concept we have been conditioned to believe is real. Until we can conceive the possibility of frequency (electromagnetic) manipulation of our minds by earthly or other means, we have no way out of our present reality matrix. And we are so easily deceived as to make doing so child's play, even for lowly humans who have acquired the knowledge and methods. Can you tell the difference between reality and a holographic insert? Neither can I. Yet. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- But he is basing his assumptions on supposed facts of science. You are arbritrarily deciding that science is lying about there being no atmosphere on the moon. Find a scientist who agrees with you. You cannot contradict something without evidence that it is false. You can of course make up any story you want to and using your rules so can everybody else. We'll never know what is true or false though using your methods. Gavin --- Dale Stonehouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.thule.org/looksaucer.html How could there be diffused light on the moon? on the moon there is no prism of atmosphere to diffuse or bend light so the sky is totally black. Here we have a classic example of someone assuming a desired conclusion and fitting the facts to prove' that conclusion. I can do the same thing; all that is necessary is to change the assumed lie from we went to the moon to the moon has no atmosphere. The author, who is not willing to believe what he was told about the moon landing, is nonetheless unable to question the same authority which also told him the moon has no atmosphere. Did they lie about one and not the other? So if I assume then, that I have been lied to about the moon's atmosphere, I can conclude: 1. There is atmosphere on the moon. 2. Therefore light will be diffused and produce soft shadow and color. 3. Therefore the NASA photos are not faked (at least not for that reason). 4. Therefore NASA astronauts landed on the moon and the photos in question are genuine. See how easy it is? Not that I am happy about either lie; but this illustrates the trap of assuming we know anything or are even capable of knowing things as absolutes. At what temperature does film melt? I asked. One hundred and fifty degrees. But NASA video and film prove the astronauts to be on the moon's surface when the sun was at high noon; the temperature was +250 F. degrees. The film, in the uncooled cameras would melt, Kodak said. Once again the author does not question the accepted surface temperature of the moon but chooses to question other things. The film would indeed not survive that temperature, IF true. So it seems we pick and choose the things we wish to believe. This is a trap set for the human mind that works all too well. The only way out of the trap is to question each and every concept we have been conditioned to believe is real. Until we can conceive the possibility of frequency (electromagnetic) manipulation of our minds by earthly or other means, we have no way out of our present reality matrix. And we are so easily deceived as to make doing so child's play, even for lowly humans who have acquired the knowledge and methods. Can you tell the difference between reality and a holographic insert? Neither can I. Yet. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need
[CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.thule.org/looksaucer.html ARTICLE THAT APPEARED IN MEDIA BYPASS MAGAZINE AUGUST, 1997 INVESTIGATOR CHALLENGING NASA By James M. Collier IN 1994, Victoria House Press in New York received a manuscript titled 'A Funny Thing Happened On Our Way to the Moon.' Its author, Ralph Rene, a brilliant lay physicist who had studied Bill Kaysing's thesis (see July issue) that NASA faked seven Apollo moon shots, wanted it published. Since I had written the investigative report Votescam: The Stealing of America, (Victoria House Press) they asked me to investigate Rene and his manuscript to determine the credibility of both. I read Kaysing's book 'We Never Went to the Moon', Rene told me, and although it was compelling, it lacked technical details, a grounding in physics that would convince scientists, beyond a doubt, that America never went to the moon. Rene was positive that NASA had pulled off the hoax of the century. NASA didn't have the technical problems solved by l969 when they launched the first moon shot, he insisted, but I believe they couldn't admit it or they'd lose thirty billion dollars in taxpayer-money. I read Rene's manuscript and although I understood basic physics, I couldn't immediately assure the publisher that Rene's assertions were scientifically accurate. Least of all, I couldn't assure them that we didn't go to the moon. I needed time. So what began as simple research turned into months at the New York Public Library, the Library of Congress in Washington and the United States Archives. Surpisingly, precious little had been written about the Apollo missions except standard puff pieces in the New York Times and the Washington Post. Then my research turned to Grumman Aircraft in Beth Page, New York. Grumman built the Lunar Module (LM), that unwieldy looking craft that never flew on Earth but supposedly landed safely on the moon six times. I asked for blueprints detailing the scientific thought behind its design. Did it run by computer? If so, who built the computer? What made Grumman engineers think it could fly? Grumman told me that all the paperwork was destroyed. I was stunned. The LM historical paperwork was destroyed!? Why!? They had no answers. I turned to Boeing Aircraft in Seattle. They built the Lunar Rover, the little car that NASA claims traversed the moon on Apollo missions15-16-17. NASA claims it was transported to the moon in a five-foot high by six-foot wide, triangular corner section of the LM. (The LM's bottom section was basically a tic-tac-toe design with nine sections. Five sections were squares with the four corners being triangles). But my research indicated that the Rover was at least six feet too long to fit into that corner compartment, thus making it impossible to ever get to the moon. Next was the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and the Johnson Space Center in Houston where I video taped an actual LM. Here research indicated that the crew compartment and hatches were too small for the astronauts to actually enter and exit. After taking the video footage I challenged NASA to prove that two six-foot astronauts, in ballooned-out pressure suits (4-psi in a vacuum) could either get in or get out of a LM. Trying to understand how the moon aquired a ten-foot layer of top soil without wind, rain or water to erode the volcanic-crystaline surface, I spoke to a geologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston. Much of my time was spent just trying to mentally picture the physics of light and shadows, jet propulsion and solar radiation, because most of what NASA was claiming about the moon shots -- and what was supposedly discovered on the moon -- appeared to be diametrically opposed to present text book physics. * * * Anyway, I was knee-deep in all this research, when Rene became impatient and decided to self-publish his book. He changed the title to NASA Mooned America. I, however, had been hooked. But now there wasn't a book to research. I was left hanging, questions plaguing my mind. Questions that neither Kaysing nor Rene entertained. Their research had led me into a scientific wonderland, filled with possibilities. What was I going to do? I had been thrown out of a great movie and I'd never know how it ended. I decided to continue the research. I proposed a book to the publisher titled Was it Only a Paper Moon? and I promised it by 1998. * * * I started with the technical problems NASA faced in outer space. In fact, I discovered there are two separate zones out there, an inner space and anouter space, and that fact eventually became very significant in my research. It appears that humans are most likely operating in inner space (the space lab) but outer space, beyond the Van Allen radiation belt, the magnetosphere, 560 miles up, may be too deadly
Re: [CTRL] Jim Collier: Only a Paper Moon?
-Caveat Lector- http://www.thule.org/looksaucer.html How could there be diffused light on the moon? on the moon there is no prism of atmosphere to diffuse or bend light so the sky is totally black. Here we have a classic example of someone assuming a desired conclusion and fitting the facts to prove' that conclusion. I can do the same thing; all that is necessary is to change the assumed lie from we went to the moon to the moon has no atmosphere. The author, who is not willing to believe what he was told about the moon landing, is nonetheless unable to question the same authority which also told him the moon has no atmosphere. Did they lie about one and not the other? So if I assume then, that I have been lied to about the moon's atmosphere, I can conclude: 1. There is atmosphere on the moon. 2. Therefore light will be diffused and produce soft shadow and color. 3. Therefore the NASA photos are not faked (at least not for that reason). 4. Therefore NASA astronauts landed on the moon and the photos in question are genuine. See how easy it is? Not that I am happy about either lie; but this illustrates the trap of assuming we know anything or are even capable of knowing things as absolutes. At what temperature does film melt? I asked. One hundred and fifty degrees. But NASA video and film prove the astronauts to be on the moon's surface when the sun was at high noon; the temperature was +250 F. degrees. The film, in the uncooled cameras would melt, Kodak said. Once again the author does not question the accepted surface temperature of the moon but chooses to question other things. The film would indeed not survive that temperature, IF true. So it seems we pick and choose the things we wish to believe. This is a trap set for the human mind that works all too well. The only way out of the trap is to question each and every concept we have been conditioned to believe is real. Until we can conceive the possibility of frequency (electromagnetic) manipulation of our minds by earthly or other means, we have no way out of our present reality matrix. And we are so easily deceived as to make doing so child's play, even for lowly humans who have acquired the knowledge and methods. Can you tell the difference between reality and a holographic insert? Neither can I. Yet. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
