Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy theories On the grassy knoll
-Caveat Lector- I asked a bystander in Dallas where the grassy knoll was. He got really mad and said, Dallas is a beautiful city. Why do you come here to focus on something that happened decades ago?!! I think it has something to do with trying to learn the truth. BTW, I did not think Dallas was that pretty, and the air was so polluted that I could not wait to leave. Most people I met were very unfriendly as well. BTW, the third 'tramp' looks very much like E. Howard Hunt, well-known CIA operative and Nixon croney. And where was Nixon on that fateful day. He could not remember! Steve On 22 Apr 01, at 23:20, Linda Minor wrote: http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/jfk/theory/knoll.html *** The grassy knoll has even been linked to a grisly -- perhaps the most grisly -- Houston murder. In 1965, the dismembered bodies of Fred and Edwina Rogers were found in a refrigerator and freezer at their home at 1815 Driscoll in Houston. Their son, Charles, who was sought as a material witness, was never found, and the case remains uncleared. In the 1992 book The Man on the Grassy Knoll, John R. Craig and Philip A. Rogers linked Charles Rogers to the grassy knoll on Nov. 22, 1963. They also identified him as an Oswald imposter who traveled to Mexico City the month before the assassination and who took a used car for a test spin in Dallas two weeks before the president's death. The authors claim sharpshooter Rogers and Charles Harrelson, later convicted in the slaying of federal judge John Wood (and the father of actor Woody Harrelson), fired simultaneously at Kennedy from behind a picket fence. Fleeing to a boxcar, they were arrested along with another man and detained for two hours. Among conspiracy theorists, they are the famous three tramps whose release -- with no written record remaining of their arrest -- provides even more fodder for speculation about a conspiracy in Kennedy's death. In 1992, however, Dallas researcher Mary La Fontaine searched the Dallas Police Department records and found the arrest records of three men who were indeed tramps. They were identified as Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams, and John Forrester Gedney. But authors Craig and Rogers raise doubts as to whether these three men were the only ones taken in after the president's killing. Whatever the case, the place the grassy knoll holds in the minds of anyone who remembers or investigates the Kennedy assassination is not about to dim soon. Visit Dallas, and you will find conspiracy buffs of all sorts hanging out there, expounding their theories, selling their leaflets and newspapers, pointing out the landmarks. You can even stand behind the picket fence and get a view of what a killer -- maybe the killer -- saw on Nov. 22, 1963. The grassy knoll is a place for thought. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth. ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES http://www.anomalous-images.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy theories On the grassy knoll
From: Steve Wingate I asked a bystander in Dallas where the grassy knoll was. He got really madand said, "Dallas is a beautiful city. Why do you come here to focus onsomething that happened decades ago?!!"I think it has something to do with trying to learn the truth.BTW, I did not think Dallas was that pretty, and the air was so polluted that Icould not wait to leave. Most people I met were very unfriendly as well. I was only in Dallas once, on a business trip. Stumbled across the Grassy Knoll by accident, on the way back to my hotel... I didn't see much of the city, what I DID see, it looked pretty much like most other cities, no better, no worse. I found the natives pretty friendly, though...but I didn't have time to mingle all that much... If they don't want outsiders coming there to visit the site of the assassination, then they shouldn't have put up the JFK memorial in the middle of Dealy Plaza, replete with map pointing out the ex-Schoolbook Depository, the Grassy Knoll, etc. That's the only way I actually knew I was smack in the middle of the sitenone of the area maps provided by the hotel mentioned Dealy Plaza et al...I and my companion were just strolling back from Texas Alley, and thought that the memorial was just a memorial put up by the city to commemorate the event...if we hadn't have read the text and seen the map in the memorial, we would have gone on back to the hotel figuring it was just some memorial. We would have never known we were at ground zero... BTW, the third 'tramp' looks very much like E. Howard Hunt, well-known CIAoperative and Nixon croney. And where was Nixon on that fateful day. Hecould not remember! Actually, he could and did. He was in Dallas, along with Joan Crawford, for the Pepsi-Cola convention that was being held there at the same time. Nixon was working for the law firm that represented Pepsi-Cola, and perhaps was on its BoD... As supposedly so were LBJ and George Bush, Sr Joan Crawford afterwards always alluded to good friends that she knew more about the Kennedy assassination than was general knowledge...but apparently would say no more than that... June _Bravenet IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy theories On the grassy knoll
-Caveat Lector- Steve Wingate wrote: -Caveat Lector- I asked a bystander in Dallas where the grassy knoll was. He got really mad and said, Dallas is a beautiful city. Why do you come here to focus on something that happened decades ago?!! I think it has something to do with trying to learn the truth. BTW, I did not think Dallas was that pretty, and the air was so polluted that I could not wait to leave. Most people I met were very unfriendly as well. While living in San Antonio and San Angelo I heard the natives joke about Dallas being Texas' Ellis Island. Most immigrants stay near there there. I remember a fine example of bathroom graffiti: Help beautify Texas. Put a Yankee on a bus headed north. I also bought a t-shirt in Big D that said Welcome to Texas. Now go home. Yep. I preferred the Tex-Mex hospitality of San Antonio. -- ´´ Mark McHugh A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy theories fuel row over Aids crisis in South Africa(Independent, UK)
Well look at the polluted blood Clinton sent up to Canada from sick prisoners containing HIVhemophiliacs now have HIV/Hemophilia. Canada was once a pure bred nation and now immigrants are changing the complexion - and the doors opened from Bering Strait for drug running to and through Canada to USAbut this is nothing new, is it. In this one 70 year old document I have, it was said cocaine and sharing of needles, caused breakdow in immune system - or, a form of AIDS. So Clinton got caught; the blood banks of the American Red Cross had been polluted - and in 1979 two Jehovah Witnesses gave me documentation that blood was so polluted they preferred death to veneral disease or hepatitis or what we now know to be AIDS..they knew the blood banks were polluted and knew it was conspiracy and how did they know? From Genocide to the Alpha and Omegothe Master Planners now comprised of low life use the bible as their guide and justification to commit murder. Low life run UN.Zulus and Communists.ever get a good look at that bunch - and they want to run the USA? So if this AIDS is part of God's Plan for Us UN stylewatch your kids, keep their blood pure and unadulterated..for AIDS came out of the dark jungles and Mediterranean Jews carried this disease in name of Karposi's Sarcoma as I recall. So 70 years ago it was know that sharing needs by cocaine users caused what we now caused AIDS.or do you suppose, it is something in the cocaine - is cocaine being used as a form of birth control like death to the users? High cost of dying these days is worse than high cot of living. saba Watch your children...Russian jewish mafia is going full force in this area yet.for the Italians have all be put in the slammer under Clinton. A. Saba Dare To Call It Conspiracy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Conspiracy Theories'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- It seems to me that it would be more cost effective for... let's call them "The Bad Guys" for the sake of simplicity... to just spread the rumor of misinformation, rather that actually do it. Once paranoid conspiracy researchers get the notion that they can't trust each other, they attack each other! The Josh Haydn from the original message gets second hand information that David Southwell was seen entering a military intelligence office, and he immediately categorizes Southwell as The Enemy. Southwell publishes a book about conspiracy theories which contains definitions of "cabal" and "misinformation". Ooooh, talk about a smoking gun! He must be One Of Them, figures Haydn, not realizing that the self-referential comments in these definition sound more like jokes than confessions. Haydn then assaults the guy and floods him with emails. It's fortunate for Haydn that Southwell's masters with the 'Elder Race' didn't provide him with an Atlantian ray-gun. Please pass along to Josh Haydn that I found David Southwell's home page (well, the home page of a David Southwell). Except for the blank, evil grin, he doesn't seem so dangerous to me: http://www.freeyellow.com:8080/members2/dsouthwell/ Of course, I'm actually paid by the military industrial complex to spread misinformation. (Uh, oh! I hope no one read that previous line. Perhaps it was too blatant! Nah, they probably missed it.) David Rupp Get caught up in The Web of Fate at http://pages.whowhere.com/arts/david.rupp/home.html. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- sorry for the typo below: it should read: "in order to give life to others" One of the earliest of the British kings (William Rufus) was slain in the New Forest in the eleventh century in what the history books record to be "a hunting accident" (assassinated with an arrow). On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote: -Caveat Lector- Mr. Kinney, You will find information on "the killing of the divine king" in Margaret Alice Murray's THE DIVINE KING IN ENGLAND London: Faber and Faber, 1954. You will read that the sacrificial slaughter of a king is an integral part of the occult lore of Europe and, interestingly, in the Native American civilizations of mesoamerica... The sacrificial king motif goes back to Egypt to the Osiris-Isis cult.. Osiris's body is dismembered in order to life to others...etc. The myth is embedded in the teachings of a number of secret societies.. Best wishes, Wm On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jim Kinney wrote: -Caveat Lector- Mr. Caulfield (or do you go by 'Catcher?), Thanks for the Kennedy material. It was interesting Screwy But interesting. Ok, how many of you out there really think that Kennedy was killed as an occult conspiracy? Show of hands. How many of you out there think that there are more holes in that theory than in the whole 'I tried it and I didn't like it. I never inhaled' story? How many think that the CIA and Mafia working together, implausible though it might seem, has a much, much higher probabilty of being right? (I'm not saying that that's what happened, just that it seems much more probable given the evidence) Who's 'occult ritual' is the 'killing of the divine king'? Please try to give me a reference that ISN'T using it in reference to Kennedy. I want an alchemical or occult text. I believe it may exist, but I want to see it quoted. Please also provide the name of the Project Pegasus 'deep cover agent' and proof he once lived or at the very least where I can download the sound files from the tapes. Otherwise all of that info is completely unverifiable. Like I said.. very interesting, but I need more independent verification, not the mutual pat-on-the-back aren't-we-so-clever conspiracy journals that all use each other as references. Verifiable government documents would be nice. Please understand that I am not trying to say that these things don't exist, just that if you want to get to the heart of it you need to work on more than 'so-and-so said they talked to someone who claimed they knew.' Thanks though.. some of the info was very valid I think. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 12:59:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe the PoS doesn't exist now except as a red herring.. (maybe). Maybe the Kennedy assassination hasn't been revealed because the one's who could do the revealing are the ones who did it. I'm not saying that this isn't possible, just that we need to work towards verifiability. Always ask yourself.. WWMD (What would Mulder do). There needs to be verifiability before any of this means anything. To think you know something is not sufficient in my eyes. I feel we need something to point at that is valid. You certainly have a point, but the disemination of knowledge is the least of what can be done. When a tidbit falls down to us we should work on it. Sometimes we can't always KNOW the facts, and simply must speculate. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- I have not read the Murray work, thank you for the reference. Actually, I think it is not so much the sacrificed king motif that is prevalent throughout myth and occult philosophy though, but that of the resurrected king. We have stories of Arthur waiting until he is needed again, Barbarossa (sic) is the same. Resurrection cults include the Osiris cult, Attis, Dionysis, Mithras and Christ (and that's just a sampling). It isn't the fact that the king dies that is important, it is the fact that the king is born again. In this way I think that Elvis is probably much closer to the Divine King in most traditions that I've seen (like I said, I haven't read the Murray book) than Kennedy is. (Elvis is still thought by many to be alive and apparently hanging out at Dunkin Donuts). -Original Message- From: William Hugh Tunstall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 11:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- Mr. Kinney, You will find information on "the killing of the divine king" in Margaret Alice Murray's THE DIVINE KING IN ENGLAND London: Faber and Faber, 1954. You will read that the sacrificial slaughter of a king is an integral part of the occult lore of Europe and, interestingly, in the Native American civilizations of mesoamerica... The sacrificial king motif goes back to Egypt to the Osiris-Isis cult.. Osiris's body is dismembered in order to life to others...etc. The myth is embedded in the teachings of a number of secret societies.. Best wishes, Wm On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jim Kinney wrote: -Caveat Lector- Mr. Caulfield (or do you go by 'Catcher?), Thanks for the Kennedy material. It was interesting Screwy But interesting. Ok, how many of you out there really think that Kennedy was killed as an occult conspiracy? Show of hands. How many of you out there think that there are more holes in that theory than in the whole 'I tried it and I didn't like it. I never inhaled' story? How many think that the CIA and Mafia working together, implausible though it might seem, has a much, much higher probabilty of being right? (I'm not saying that that's what happened, just that it seems much more probable given the evidence) Who's 'occult ritual' is the 'killing of the divine king'? Please try to give me a reference that ISN'T using it in reference to Kennedy. I want an alchemical or occult text. I believe it may exist, but I want to see it quoted. Please also provide the name of the Project Pegasus 'deep cover agent' and proof he once lived or at the very least where I can download the sound files from the tapes. Otherwise all of that info is completely unverifiable. Like I said.. very interesting, but I need more independent verification, not the mutual pat-on-the-back aren't-we-so-clever conspiracy journals that all use each other as references. Verifiable government documents would be nice. Please understand that I am not trying to say that these things don't exist, just that if you want to get to the heart of it you need to work on more than 'so-and-so said they talked to someone who claimed they knew.' Thanks though.. some of the info was very valid I think. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sord
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 4:55:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If we are allowed a vote in the matter, I'm getting a little tired of deleting all the hate/ bashing nonsense that seems to be growing on this list. Save my delete button ware and tear and take these discussions into private e mail. I'm puzzled by this post because it references my welcoming response to a post by someone who hadn't posted for a while. While i feel great angst regarding your distress, how does my post relate to hate? Are you, by any chance, Rogue Butterfly coming back under an alias? Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- I agree, but let's make sure we label it then as speculation rather than fact. Phrases like 'I think', 'it seems' and 'I believe' are handy ways of pointing out where we jump off of facts and into speculation. I do agree though.. lets show every tidbit we find, but lets label them properly to make sure we minimize the confusion. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories You certainly have a point, but the disemination of knowledge is the least of what can be done. When a tidbit falls down to us we should work on it. Sometimes we can't always KNOW the facts, and simply must speculate. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Bohemia Grove and the Bilderbergers come quickly to mind, quasi-public events. Whose to say what goes on in private in secret societies? Myself, I am for transparency. Om K In a message dated 12/10/98 5:19:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I simply can't imagine that a group (please tell me.. how many are we talking here? A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? How many are 'in the know'?) of powerful men like that could tolerate each other for long at all. But hey, I could be wrong. - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
Freemason, as his father had been before him. Many of these Englishmen who came to Virginia (the FFV's, first families of Virginia) were Freemasonslong before the revolution. As the family prospered through their control of land and slaves (yes. I am descended from people who owned human beings.), they became politically active. Throughout the eighteenth century, members of the family served as clerks within the counties of Virginia. My family belonged to one of the lesser tiers of families who served the interests of the very wealthy upper tier, famed in our history. There were definite caste distinctions in Virginia during the eighteenth century. A Beverley or a Randolph would not marry into one of the lesser families. But the men of my family served as faithful retainers to the more illustrious insiders All of these social, political, family ties involved Freemasonry to an extent that contemporary historians don't recognize (or choose to ignore). Since the older sons of these families would usually inherit the family estates, the younger sons were forced to look elsewhere... So, there was a steady of stream of younger men, bringing with them their wives, slaves, and cattle, into the Carolinas..and across the Appalachians into the fertile regions of the Ohio and Miss valley.. I'm descended from one of the Carolina branches who settled in Lenoir county NC in 1810. On the frontier, free of some of the more repressive and restrictive conditions of Virginia society, the men of the family intermarried with Native American women. ...I'm one of their descendants... Also, they believed, as my grandfather explained it to me, that Native Americans had a spiritual connection to the land, and that it was only right and proper that the two races intermix in order to create a more powerful psychic bond with the hidden spiritual forces that govern the destiny of the nation. I'm candidly sharing all of this with you, in order for you to understand that some of the impulses behind Freemasonry have a definite spiritual dimension to them. oops..the time is late. and I have to go. I hope I haven't bored you with all of this family history... but I believe it would be a mistake to believe that "the conspiracy" has only a political or economic dimension to it. Much of the true history of this country is hidden... Regards, Wm On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Linda Minor wrote: -Caveat Lector- Have you ever moved to a new place and had no job? You look around and say, "How can I make some money? So you start joining organizations like Kiwanis, Elks, PTA. You think, "If I can make some contacts here, someone will offer me a job." I research history wherever I go--local "good ol' boy" stuff. In Texas we call it "bidness." Look around you, Jim. This is what the real conspiracy is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the process maybe becoming a shining member of the community. This is what the British class system has always been. Do something useful for the people who control the investments of the monarch so you'll be knighted or recognized. And how do you control this network? Through doling out funds. Men who had the financial acumen when our country was a baby were assigned to growing communities in need of banks. In Texas, corporate banks were illegal or too expensive to acquire charters for, so individuals with backing established grocery stores which made loans to anyone who wanted to go into business of any kind in the area. Collateral was primarily land and crops. The local banker/merchant only got a small piece of the profit, and he only was allowed to have that if he kept the secret of who he got the original capital from. The secrets were maintained through lodges which were all connected up back to the source. This is all so simple and obvious. But it's hard to believe because it means the conspiracy is us. People don't want to admit the things they do for money and prestige. It easier to put a cloak of altruism or religion around it. That's what the lodge does. It allows the men who do the dirty work to rationalize what they do. They ask no questions. All they want is to impress their family. And they pass their position in the lodge to their own son. Anybody who agrees to play by the rules can make a name for himself. Linda Minor -Original Message- From: Jim Kinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- My point in the earlier message was not to decrease the amount of discussion or debate used around here, but to put the debate onto a more sound reasoning. If you wish to claim that ALL Masons are part of a huge conspiracy, then I would like to say that I have Mason friends who most assuredly do not have world domination in mind. Since I am assumi
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Together We Create Heaven on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jim Kinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- I'm just as curious, as it is titled after the thread I started in which everyone has (so far) been rather understanding. It was probably about the 'intelligence' comment in the other posting that brought it on, but I didn't take that one too personally.. when you look at some of the angry people posting here I agree that anyone who will rationally give their point of view is welcome and that they may actually increase the overall intelligence shown here (maybe.. I make no absolute claims here). Hiya Jim, Yup, it was the 'intelligence' comment. I wasn't the least offended by it (since I don't generally post) and actually viewed it as welcomed news. Sorry, for the delay in responding I've been busy with TAX stuff, ugh! I agree. There has been a lot of angry voices lately am I'm not too sure how to curb that. Frankly, I don't even read them - that ol' delete key! For the most part I've been enjoying the articles which I liberally post to my list (yes, shameless advertising)!!! Hilary DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Howdy Jim, Here is a short book list: Hiram's Key Second Messiah Born in the Blood America's Secret Establishment Scarlet and the Beast, Vol. 1, 2, 3 Treason in America These may help you understand how fremason were corrupted and infused with lucerferian socerey. When a german house took-over 'leadership of freemasonary, they didn't understand it, rewrote it to their liking and then along came Pike and rewrote it again. Pike is a very interesting character, comes from a little town in massachusetts with a bunch of other gameplayers, town was built on opium running. A very interesting story. Toss in some Bonsemen, british fronts and bank shills and you get quite the 'organized' lot. The hoodwink has been going on for generations and there is more than 'greed' and simple 'powermongering'. There are multi-generational cults using very sophisticated and technical mind-control techniques to influence human events. And not in a positive way IMHO. This cult has used our own taxmonies to biuild a national security state for the nefariousness. My daddy was OSS/CIA he told me his understandings of it years ago, I didn't know what to think and couldn't even comprehend what he was saying. But he was right on and there was more besides. I will repost my treatise on Skull and Bones, there is a bibliography at the end. Jim, I understand what you say and most mason are good people and we will all need each other, if'n we are ever going to breaks the bonds of the cabal. But what Linda, is saying is quite true and lays down one of the main controlling factors in the 'conspiracy' and that is to get to area first, size it up, get in on the ground floor and then spend time and lots of money. If you do the research, you will be amazed at what you will discover. Om K In a message dated 12/10/98 6:00:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm really curious as to your sources about the 'linking up' of the lodges. I know that there are several different Masonic orders, and I will admit that I think that they do hold some political clout, but in what way do you feel that they are a unified group? Please give me some references. Thank you for your input. I find this all very interesting. - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Thanks RoadsEnd for the info. I still think that there is a fairly significant amount of hooey in some of it, but I have to admit that much of it is fairly well documented. I'm not sure I buy a 'Luciferian' angle to it though. I'm also not sure that 'getting in early, sizing it up and spending lots of money' qualifies as a 'conspiracy' per se. Seems like good business sense. Look at Microsoft. One question for you is this.. Does the fact that an organization was once a manipulative organizational 'conspiracy' (such as the Masons seem to have been, as well as Skull and Bones) mean that they will always be a secret 'conspiracy' organization? Organizations, being made up of people, tend to evolve over time, and I feel that it is quite possible that over generations that information, power and control can be lost. How do you know that this has not happened? How do you know that groups like the Illuminati or the Priory of Sion or the Templars have a continuous history? Is it possible that the names have remained the same but everything else has changed? That is almost certainly what has happened with the Rosicrucians (unless the AMORC is one heck of a lot sneakier than they look). Why not the Masons? How can people know that the goals of the 'conspiracies' have remained constant? If they haven't, then we are back to my original premise.. that we have small groups of people working, perhaps within an established system, in their own 'enlightened' self interest. The system (such as the 'good ol' boys club) may remain the same, but its goals and players change. This does not seem like the kind of conspiracy we are looking for, unless we are willing to label the democratic and republican parties conspiracies. The system may be wrong, putting too much power into people's hands, but that does not make it a conspiracy, just a flawed system. Once again, thanks for the info. I appreciate your patience and the understanding tone of your reply. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Maybe the PoS doesn't exist now except as a red herring.. (maybe). Maybe the Kennedy assassination hasn't been revealed because the one's who could do the revealing are the ones who did it. I'm not saying that this isn't possible, just that we need to work towards verifiability. Always ask yourself.. WWMD (What would Mulder do). There needs to be verifiability before any of this means anything. To think you know something is not sufficient in my eyes. I feel we need something to point at that is valid. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 12:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 12:00:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Organizations, being made up of people, tend to evolve over time, and I feel that it is quite possible that over generations that information, power and control can be lost. How do you know that this has not happened? If I may jump in here. There is no way to "know" such things. I would, however, point to the builder's of the Egyptian Pyramids. It is my belief that they excercised a great deal of control in their day and that they kept their technology absolutely secret, even 'til today. Secrecy is easy to maintain when the members of the group are recruited for having the very same drives and motivating forces in their lives, thus it is in thier OWN best interests to keep it a secret. Of course in mentioning the PoS I would ask you, if this is true, why don't we know something SOLID about this group, who some of the members are, etc. . . it would seem that if what you say is true then some of it would have come out (mind you Holy Blood Holy Grail has some info. on this BUT it is highly suspect by many). The Kennedy assassination is a much better example. Even you must admit that there were many people involved in that one and we the people still have no PROOF of anything. We know it was a conspiracy but that is about all, why didn't this one fall apart? The CIA still has stuff classified in it's files from 50 years ago, so secrecy can and is routinely kept for long periods of time. The secrecy itself is part of the problem, it begets itself and leads to more secrecy which Usually leads to nefarious activity. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 8:39:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look around you, Jim. This is what the real conspiracy is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the process maybe becoming a shining member of the community. Yah! Glad to see you posting again, Linda. The intelligence level of the list has just increased. However, be prepared. The crazies have multiplied during your absence. BTW, all. Whatever happened to Lee Markland? His stuff was generally informing and enjoyable. Lee, if you read this, come on back and spend some time with us. Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Hello all, If we are allowed a vote in the matter, I'm getting a little tired of deleting all the hate/ bashing nonsense that seems to be growing on this list. Save my delete button ware and tear and take these discussions into private e mail. Hilary Together We Create Heaven on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Gerald Harp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 8:39:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look around you, Jim. This is what the real conspiracy is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the process maybe becoming a shining member of the community. Yah! Glad to see you posting again, Linda. The intelligence level of the list has just increased. However, be prepared. The crazies have multiplied during your absence. BTW, all. Whatever happened to Lee Markland? His stuff was generally informing and enjoyable. Lee, if you read this, come on back and spend some time with us. Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Moe, Larry or Curly? The smart one thanks for the Golden Bough info. That is just the kind of info I was looking for. Now what 'occult' group is actually using this? I don't know, but man you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe. The group he is refering to does not appear in the snippit and without that ifo even he is unverifiable (a shame too.. a love his work.. I simply don't have my copy here right now. This is the kind of info we need. Now how does Frasier tie to Kennedy any more than it does John Lennon? He wasn't a king.. but he was the Walrus. Sorry man but it's hard to scan an 850 page book on a flatbed. Suffice it to say that he documents evidence and theological consequences of "ritualistic oligarchicide" from the Assryians all the way thru the 20th century, in cultures ranging from Polynesia, Africa, to North and Central American Indians. I did scan some of the conclusion to "The Scapegoat section": "...The principle of mimicry is implanted so deep in human nature and has exerted so far-reaching an influence on the development of religion as well as of the arts that it may be well, even at the cost of a short digression, to illustrate by example some of the modes in which primitive man has attempted to apply it to the satisfaction of his wants by means of religious or magical dramas. For it seems probable that the masked dances and ceremonies, which have played a great part in the social life of savages in many quarters of the world, were primarily designed to subserve practical purposes rather than simply to stir the emotions of the spectators and to while away the languor and tedium of idle hours. The actors sought to draw down blessings on the community by mimicking certain power- ful superhuman beings and in their assumed character working those beneficent miracles which in the capacity of mere men they would have confessed themselves powerless to effect. In fact the aim of these elementary dramas, which contain in germ the tragedy and comedy of civilized nations, was the acquisition of superhuman power for the public good..." So if there is "manipulative organizational conspiracy" it's all for the good of mankind! Now can you say JonBenet? - from:"Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare" by Michael A. Hoffman Mind Control and The Revelation of the Method It is here necessary to point out a fallacy which has succeeded in defeating many genuine ecological rebels against modern tampering and the occult philosophy and organization which powers it. These are a rare breed to begin with since the vast majority of researchers who start out in search of the truth about these big themes end, like so many other avant-garde thinkers and activists, succumbing to the egregious tyranny and mind-napping that lurks beneath the facade of the liberal- occult operation. But a few escape this net only to blunder blindly into another. They become trapped in the fallacy that exposure of the methods and personnel involved in the cyptocracy's crimes is, by itself, a tremendous step toward overthrowing the power of the cryptocracy. "If only we could get some of the facts out in the open" is their refrain. I would reply that the process of Hermetic cryptocracy is not stagnant. It is engaged in a remarkable project set into motion millennia ago, an operation which has accomplished most--if not all--of its chief-goals with awe-inspiring dispatch. In the beginning and middle stages of this operation, the "hoodwink" was a key to accomplishment of objectives. Generally speaking, deception is far less necessary today. Quite the contrary, the cryptocracy has actually been determined to reveal many of its greatest secrets to us "profane ones" for some time now. Veteran independent occult investigators were astonished at the massive disclosure in the 1970s of some of the deepest and most profound secrets of the masonic-Neo- Platonic Hermetic Academy, secrets reserved in some cases for thousand of years for only the highest initiates. Two books by the English writer and Ordo Tempil Orientis (OTO) initiate Kenneth Grant,"The Magical Revival" and "Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God" and another by The aforementioned Robert K.G. Temple, "The Sirius Mystery" revealed secrets of the highest magnitude which have been vigorously protected and hidden at some cost to human life for centuries and in the case of Temple's book, millennia. And they were published with the knowledge and approval of the masonic-Hermetic heirs to this knowledge. Independent researchers have seldom noted the significance of these revelations coming from occult groups and even advertising agencies which, in a demonstration of macabre nose-thumbing at our complete indifference to our mental enslavement, have actually pointed to the subliminals in their own liquor ads. These actions signal our entrance into an entirely different era of alchemical Process. As I wrote in Apocalypse
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Have you ever moved to a new place and had no job? You look around and say, "How can I make some money? So you start joining organizations like Kiwanis, Elks, PTA. You think, "If I can make some contacts here, someone will offer me a job." I research history wherever I go--local "good ol' boy" stuff. In Texas we call it "bidness." Look around you, Jim. This is what the real conspiracy is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the process maybe becoming a shining member of the community. This is what the British class system has always been. Do something useful for the people who control the investments of the monarch so you'll be knighted or recognized. And how do you control this network? Through doling out funds. Men who had the financial acumen when our country was a baby were assigned to growing communities in need of banks. In Texas, corporate banks were illegal or too expensive to acquire charters for, so individuals with backing established grocery stores which made loans to anyone who wanted to go into business of any kind in the area. Collateral was primarily land and crops. The local banker/merchant only got a small piece of the profit, and he only was allowed to have that if he kept the secret of who he got the original capital from. The secrets were maintained through lodges which were all connected up back to the source. This is all so simple and obvious. But it's hard to believe because it means the conspiracy is us. People don't want to admit the things they do for money and prestige. It easier to put a cloak of altruism or religion around it. That's what the lodge does. It allows the men who do the dirty work to rationalize what they do. They ask no questions. All they want is to impress their family. And they pass their position in the lodge to their own son. Anybody who agrees to play by the rules can make a name for himself. Linda Minor -Original Message- From: Jim Kinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories -Caveat Lector- My point in the earlier message was not to decrease the amount of discussion or debate used around here, but to put the debate onto a more sound reasoning. If you wish to claim that ALL Masons are part of a huge conspiracy, then I would like to say that I have Mason friends who most assuredly do not have world domination in mind. Since I am assuming that you have to have some knowledge of a conspiracy to be a 'part' of it, then I would say that you are wrong. If, on the other hand, you don't need to know that you are part of a conspiracy, then how do you know that there is one? It could be just a small, small group of people 'in the know' who can push a whole lot of buttons. I think that this small group is possible, but even then, individuals (and we have now narrowed the 'in the know' group to individuals, not huge organizations) tend to work on gaining things in their own lifetime if they are in it for power. If they are not in it for power, what are they in it for? If they are in it for power, don't you imagine that they would occasionally duke it out amongst themselves? Then we don't have a single conspiracy at all, but a number of very small conspiracies that sometimes work together, and sometimes work against each other. Kind of sounds like what I said in the last message. If knowledge of conspiracy is not needed to be a part of it, does anyone involved need to know about it? Could we have some kind of monstrous unconscious conspiracy striking at us? Creatures of the Id straight from Forbidden Planet? No.. I'm fairly sure that You are looking for a secret society of incredibly powerful white men who magically get along together perfectly and control everything (probably all descended from Merovingians). Kind of like the Smoking Man and company on the X-Files, but with even more control over things. I love it, but I really don't think it works that way. Incredibly powerful people tend to get that way because they plow over people who get in their way. Bill Gates is a wonderful example. I simply can't imagine that a group (please tell me.. how many are we talking here? A dozen? A hundred? A thousand? How many are 'in the know'?) of powerful men like that could tolerate each other for long at all. But hey, I could be wrong. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests t
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Linda Minor said: I research history wherever I go--local "good ol' boy" stuff. In Texas we call it "bidness." Look around you, Jim. This is what the real conspiracy is all about--making money for the wife and kiddies and in the process maybe becoming a shining member of the community. My point exactly.. but I hardly consider this a 'conspiracy' in the same sense that the Kennedy assassination seems to be. I agree, we are a 'conspiracy' when you look at the way in which all of us seem to be more comfortable dealing with people we know.. dealing with people like us. This though is usually an 'unconscious' conspiracy, not a 'conscious' one that seems to be the topic of so much conversation around here. This does not mean that there is no 'dirty work' out there. I think that there are 'conspiracies' involved in our daily lives. Banks which refuse loans to people trying to move into the 'wrong' neighborhood for instance, but I think that there are several steps missing between the daily prejudices and the world-controlling versions. I'm really curious as to your sources about the 'linking up' of the lodges. I know that there are several different Masonic orders, and I will admit that I think that they do hold some political clout, but in what way do you feel that they are a unified group? Please give me some references. Thank you for your input. I find this all very interesting. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- Jim Kinney wrote: This though is usually an 'unconscious' conspiracy, not a 'conscious' one that seems to be the topic of so much conversation around here. This does not mean that there is no 'dirty work' out there. I think that there are 'conspiracies' involved in our daily lives. I'm really curious as to your sources about the 'linking up' of the lodges. I know that there are several different Masonic orders, and I will admit that I think that they do hold some political clout, but in what way do you feel that they are a unified group? Please give me some references. Thank you for your input. I find this all very interesting. Here is one of my favorites. I think the Church lady wrote it but am not sure. Mind Contol, the illuminati, and the JFK Assassination- Thirty-three years ago, President John F. Kennedy was murdered in Dealey Plaza in Dallas. The meticulously contrived Warren Commission report blamed "lone nut" Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination, but the Warren Commission failed to dive from the tip of the iceberg into the icy waters of the conspiracy which led to JFK's death. After 33 years, a number of researchers have concluded that although a diverse rogue's gallery of covert operatives, government agencies and power interests played small roles in the assassination, the unseen hand guiding Kennedy's murder was a global network of secret societies which fall under the general description of the Illuminati. According to these researchers, Kennedy's death was more than a political conspiracy; it was an occult ritual known as the "Killing of the Divine King" designed as part of an alchemical plan to usher in a New World Order. This overview examines some of the more prominent theories of an Illuminati/JFK assassination connection. 1: The 33-Year Question History is always written wrong, and so always needs to be rewritten. --George Santanyana Amidst anguish and outrage, a question has plagued the collective subconscious of America for 33 years: Who killed President John F. Kennedy? As one who was alive when it happened, I can testify to the effects of that act upon myself and to what I observed around me. Tragedy is traumatic. I was pulled out of junior high Spanish class and sent out on the street selling newspapers containing the grim news. Only twice in my lifetime were kids hawking papers on the street in our town: the day JFK was assassinated, and the day Ruby shot Oswald. Kennedy's murder represents far more than the unlikely act of a "lone nut" or even a concealed political conspiracy. A four-tiered network of power interests was responsible for the Killing of the King of Camelot, with the all-seeing eye of the Illuminati at the top of the pyramid. Hanging from the Illuminati's puppet strings are the Masonic and other 'secret' societies, followed by the national security state apparatus/subculture. A rogue's gallery of various commercial, idealogical, political and bureaucratic partners fill out the foundation of this conspiracy. What is the Illuminati? In 1785, a bolt of lightning struck a courier en route to Paris from Frankfort-on-the-Main. "Original Shift in Days of Illuminations," a tract written by Adam "Spartacus" Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati, was recovered from the dead messenger. It contained the secret society's long-range plan for "The New World Order through world revolution." The Bavarian Government promptly outlawed the society and in 1787 published the details of The Illuminati conspiracy in "The Original Writings of the Order and Sect of the Illuminati."The Illuminati was publicly founded May 1, 1776, at the University of Ingolstadt by Weishaupt, a Professor of Canon Law. It was a very "learned" society; Weishaupt drew the earliest members of his new order from among his students. In Adam Weishaupt's own words: "By this plan, we shall direct all mankind in this manner. And, by the simplest means, we shall set all in motion and in flames. The occupations must be so allotted and contrived that we may, in secret, influence all political transactions." There is disagreement among scholars as to whether or not the Illuminati survived its banishment. Nevertheless, under Weishaupt's guidance, the group had been quite successful in attracting members and through various manipulations had allied itself with the extensive Masonic networks in Europe and the United States. On December 5, 1776, students at William and Mary College founded a secret society, Phi Beta Kappa. A second chapter was formed, at Yale, in 1780. The anti-Masonic movement which erupted in the United States during the 1820s denounced the secrecy of groups such as Phi Beta Kappa. The society responded to this pressure by going public. Some researchers note this as the direct cause of the appearance of Yale's Order of Skull and Bones. The alumni of Skull and Bones provide a direct link between secret
Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories
-Caveat Lector- A web site that supports the thoughts expressed by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Kinney), and perhaps much more is: A HREF="http://www.masonicinfo.com/contents.htm"Contents of masonicinfo.com /A An easy wan to first explore this site is: A HREF="http://www.masonicinfo.com/sitemap.htm"Site Map/A Have fun. Enjoy. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
