Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna
-Caveat Lector- Tatman, Robert wrote: It is widely expected by Vatican watchers that Pope John Paul II will use the occasion of the Jubilee Year 2000 with its attendant gigantic pilgrimages to Rome to formally proclaim the doctrine of Mary as Co-Redemptrix, the equal of Jesus Christ as agent of human salvation...thus effectively expanding the Holy Trinity to a Holy Quaternity or Holy Foursome, and presenting the Western World with its first officially-sanctioned female deity since the conversion of the last European pagans at the end of the Middle Ages. The Co-Redemptrix thinking doesn't work that way. Mary is a human being - a creature - and would never be considered Jesus' equal nor would she ever be considered a deity. What Co-Redemptrix means is actually quite subtle and a little difficult for me to explain without my books - but basically it means that God loves Mary more than any other *creature* and so he gave his son to the world through Mary. So the thinking is that she is thus the Co-Redeemer. Similar thoughts are that the Trinity like it when people pray not *to* Mary but *through* Mary to Jesus or God, because he so loves her that he will not refuse anything she requests of Him. So, Mary is and was and always will be considered a *creature* or a creation of God - the one most loved by God though. Now, I am sure a theologian could explain it better than this, sorry. Kelly DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna
-Caveat Lector- Kelly, what you say may be true from a strict theological standpoint, but let me assure you that the average person-in-the-street will view it differently. Mariolatry comes perilously close to heresy as it is; adding the doctrine of Mary as CoRedemptrix only makes it easier for people to consider her to be actually divine. And please pay close attention to the things that have been posted on the list about the creation of a New Age religion centered on Diana...something is definitely evolving in that direction, with some highly sophisticated psyops encouraging it. Developments concerning Mary only feed that tendency. -Original Message- From: Kelly [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna -Caveat Lector- Tatman, Robert wrote: It is widely expected by Vatican watchers that Pope John Paul II will use the occasion of the Jubilee Year 2000 with its attendant gigantic pilgrimages to Rome to formally proclaim the doctrine of Mary as Co-Redemptrix, the equal of Jesus Christ as agent of human salvation...thus effectively expanding the Holy Trinity to a Holy Quaternity or Holy Foursome, and presenting the Western World with its first officially-sanctioned female deity since the conversion of the last European pagans at the end of the Middle Ages. The Co-Redemptrix thinking doesn't work that way. Mary is a human being - a creature - and would never be considered Jesus' equal nor would she ever be considered a deity. What Co-Redemptrix means is actually quite subtle and a little difficult for me to explain without my books - but basically it means that God loves Mary more than any other *creature* and so he gave his son to the world through Mary. So the thinking is that she is thus the Co-Redeemer. Similar thoughts are that the Trinity like it when people pray not *to* Mary but *through* Mary to Jesus or God, because he so loves her that he will not refuse anything she requests of Him. So, Mary is and was and always will be considered a *creature* or a creation of God - the one most loved by God though. Now, I am sure a theologian could explain it better than this, sorry. Kelly DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna
-Caveat Lector- Tatman, Robert wrote: Kelly, what you say may be true from a strict theological standpoint, but let me assure you that the average person-in-the-street will view it differently. I agree totally, which is why I think the Catholic Church will never allow it. The current Pope does encourage devotion to Mary, but that is much different than proclaiming her Co-Remdemtrix. We'll see though. Mariolatry comes perilously close to heresy as it is; adding the doctrine of Mary as CoRedemptrix only makes it easier for people to consider her to be actually divine. Yes, which is not and never has been and never will be proclaimed by the Church. It is okay for a woman to be the Mother of God, but Heaven forbid she actually be considered a *deity*. No, women have a very strict place in the Catholic Church. And being a deity ain't part of the picture. What is interesting, to me at any rate, is how the Pope is now making clear that God is neither male nor female but a spirit. But Mary was obviously a woman. And they say that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. So go figure it all out. Pretty complicated! And please pay close attention to the things that have been posted on the list about the creation of a New Age religion centered on Diana...something is definitely evolving in that direction, with some highly sophisticated psyops encouraging it. Developments concerning Mary only feed that tendency. Yes, thank you Robert for all your insights. I appreciate your postings. And to everyone on the list, I wish you all a Happy Holiday season - since I don't come out of lurkdom often, maybe I can get away with that! I appreciate all the effort the regular posters put into their postings very much. Thank you all! Kelly DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna
-Caveat Lector- It is widely expected by Vatican watchers that Pope John Paul II will use the occasion of the Jubilee Year 2000 with its attendant gigantic pilgrimages to Rome to formally proclaim the doctrine of Mary as Co-Redemptrix, the equal of Jesus Christ as agent of human salvation...thus effectively expanding the Holy Trinity to a Holy Quaternity or Holy Foursome, and presenting the Western World with its first officially-sanctioned female deity since the conversion of the last European pagans at the end of the Middle Ages. -Original Message- From: Kris Millegan [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 11:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Diana as the Madonna snipped DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
