Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- I want to control the state democratically and I don't want businessmen to run this society surreptitiously any longer. More people feel like I do due to the antics of people you seem to admire. In the end, it will go our way because there are more of us than there are of you. If you don't like that, you may leave. I suggest you go to Russia where your kind of economic philosophy is practiced. Take a sweater. Joshua2 Here it is again. The Huge Disconnect. Big Government ain't the problem, of course not, its the bad (take your pick): 1. Evil Capitalists 2. Evil Commissars 3. Evil Grupenfurhrers If only the "good people" run the Big Government, all will be fine. Yeah right! Please name these "good people" who we can trust to operate Big Government in such an altruistic benign manner. I have been around for a long time and yet to meet any of these "good people" who are immune from the corruption of power. The Politico - Paths will dominate any governmental structure you put in place. The only possible solution is to minimize the damage they can do by limiting the power (of government) that they can wield. I.E. "The Field Of Bad Dreams".If you build it they will come. FLW DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- MJ wrote: The essential nature of capitalism is social harmony through the pursuit of self-interest. Under capitalism, the individual's pursuit of his own economic self-interest simultaneously benefits the economic self-interests of all others. In allowing each individual to act unhampered by government regulations, capitalism causes wealth to be created in the most efficient manner possible which ultimately raises the standard of living, increases the economic opportunities, and makes available an ever growing supply of products for everyone. The free-market operates in such a way so that as one man creates more wealth for himself, he simultaneously creates more wealth for everyone, which means that as the rich become richer, the poor become richer too. It must be understood that capitalism serves the economic self-interests of all, including the non-capitalists. snip Linda Minor wrote: I agree with MJ here. The system he is advocating does not exist. MJ: Exactly my point ... people lambaste capitalism by identifying other systems as such. Linda Minor wrote: It is a figment of Ayn Rand's imagination. MJ: Ad hominem, capitalism is independent of Ayn Rand. Linda Minor wrote: Just look at the concepts he's discussing and see what a crock he's trying to push down the the throats of the people on this list: MJ: Ad populum, non sequitur, strawman ... snip results/benefits of capitalism Linda Minor wrote: I believe capitalism is a commendable concept if it did not allow so many advantages to the sons and daughters of those who have already achieved or inherited wealth. All I would like explained to me is why the children of wealthy people get to start so far above the rest of us? MJ: Your 'green-ness' is shortsighted as it assumes the 'moron' who inherits wealth can retain/build or otherwise not LOSE that which was given him. In response to your question, because the property was earned by the parent who may dispose of HIS property as HE sees fit -- whether to charity OR family OR otherwise. Linda Minor wrote: The problem with capitalism is that it allows wealth to be passed down to the unworthy, just as socialism does. Show me a system which truly allows everyone to start on an even playing field, earn everything they get and get everything they earn, and I'll be satisfied. MJ: Capitalism is your answer ... just as YOU should be free to do what you will with your earnings -- however large or meager they may be -- so others have that same 'right'. How exactly does socialism 'pass wealth down' -- implying inheritance? Regard$, --MJ Do you not know that freedom means competition, and that competition, according to M. Louis Blanc, is a system of extermination for the common people, and a cause of ruin for the businessman? For evidence that the freer nations are, the closer they are to destruction and ruination, should we not look at Switzerland, Holland, England, and the United States? Do you not know that, again according to M. Louis Blanc, competition leads to monopoly, and that, for the same reason, low costs lead to high prices? That competition tends to exhaust the sources of consumption and pushes production into a destructive activity? That competition forces production to increase and consumption to decrease? Whence it follows that free peopls produce in order not to consume -- that liberty means both opppression and madness, and that M. Louis Blanc simply must step in and set matters straight? -- Frederic Bastiat DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Where would Monsanto be without the F.D.A.? This seems like a cart-before-the-horse question. The FDA is staffed with people from industry. Like the other government agencies, it is a weak force compared to the realities of global corporatism. Monsanto could live without it--it has no impact on European or Asian markets, for instance. kt Exactly my point. Predatory Corporations utilize and manipulate federal agencies to further their own agenda. These Corps love "Big Government" because it is used by them to discourage small business competitors and manipulate the market. Monsanto and the FDA - perfect together. Predatory Capitalism is not free market. It is the unholy alliance between corporations, the Elites who control them, and the politico-paths who serve them. It is Statism. A variant of Facism. A blood relative of Socialism, Communism and Nazism. FLW FLW DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- "M. A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Someone wrote: Where would Monsanto be without the F.D.A.? Kenn Thomas wrote: This seems like a cart-before-the-horse question. The FDA is staffed with people from industry. Like the other government agencies, it is a weak force compared to the realities of global corporatism. Monsanto could live without it--it has no impact on European or Asian markets, for instance. MJ: Huh? The FDA is unconstitutional -- another protectionist, vote-buying racket. Place the government in its legitimate role and businesses have no 'tool' for their use. Reminds me of what another stated on a different list ... 'sounds like blaming the cow for leaving the barn when you left the door open'. Regard$, --MJ Property is prior to law; the sole function of the law is to safeguard the right to property wherever it exists, wherever it is formed, in whatever manner the worker produces it, whether individually or in association, provided that he respects the rights of others. -- Frederic Bastiat Grow up and get real man. You only own property because no one takes it from you. How can you own property for example, when it was here before you, and will be here after you. You're living in an illusion. It's a game. I won't take your property if you won't take mine. But if I have nothing to lose, I will take yours unless you can stop me. If I have a vested interest in a system that I feel benefits me as well as you, I will be glad to maintain such a system. If not, then I have no interest in keeping you fat and sassy while my kids starve. You can philosophize all you want. That's the real bottom line. That's also why you have an interest in my well being. It's not altruism it's survival. Your survival. Don't forget it. Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/25/98 7:38:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This seems like a cart-before-the-horse question. The FDA is staffed with people from industry. Like the other government agencies, it is a weak force compared to the realities of global corporatism. Monsanto could live without it--it has no impact on European or Asian markets, for instance. kt kt This is an excellent observation. The FDA is run by former business men and the businesses (like Monsanto) frequently hire former FDA workers to work for them. It is a blatant conflict of interest in my opinion, especially in all the talk about Nutrasweet and other questionable foodstuffs. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- I wrote: (something about a slightly mixed economy) In a message dated 12/26/98 3:49:36 AM, MJ wrote: Name one business one may participate (legally) which is devoid of government. This has been an interesting discussion. I doubt we're going to find ourselves all simultaneously agreeing to one single perfect economic solution anytime soon, but I think it's very important to discuss this type of thing along with the various other abuses and manipulations of power discussed on CTRL. Disagreements aside, how can we expect to actually have a positive impact on the status quo unless we mentally hack the system, as well as our own preconceptions? When I said "slightly mixed," I wasn't trying to deny that we live in Babylon, and that we cannot escape Babylon's grip (Babylon as a metaphorical representation of the United States). You cannot operate a "business" of any substantial sort without entangling yourself with the government, and you cannot gain employment legally without paying taxes, which go to support all sorts of nasty stuff that people generally wouldn't approve of if they realized what was actually going on. The question is, are you one of the few who the system is built to serve, or are you one of the rabble which the system feeds upon? I guess that's what I meant by "slightly mixed," in the sense (quoth Noam Chomsky) that we have in effect a form of state socialism for the rich, with free markets reserved for the poor. Those who are able to claw their way out of the free market and gain entry to the "top of the pyramid club" will, on the way, learn all the bloodthirsty tricks necessary to maintain their prosperous new positions. The social rot begins to smell like roses; decay becomes new growth; crisis becomes opportunity. Corporate execs draw $250,000 paychecks with $100,000 bonuses on a bad year (and blow every dime of it, saving surprisingly little), while the kids in the public housing project down the road have to put plywood over their windows because all the glass has been broken out. But the system (any mass system) is perpetuated by building a conceptual "box" (laws, regulations, social controls, etc.), then tricking and/or forcing as many people as possible to stay within the box. Automatically the perpetuation of this system becomes its primary occupation; that's a given. There is no system that can be built which will be able to withstand the probing of those who seek to use it to their own advantage. Maybe the revolution will come one day, but even if it did, would anything new really come along? The real revolution is within each of us -- the systematic individual process of eliminating one's own contradictions, false values and preconceptions. We have been conditioned since birth in a rancid sea of lies, contradictory messages, dead ends, and greed-inspired motivations. We must deprogram ourselves, dig deep into our own souls, and determine what exactly it is we want to do in these 70-some-odd years that most of us are given on this earth. Only when we have cleansed ourselves of the weaknesses instilled by years of unconcious programming can we come together as a people and really build a better society. And it IS a matter of building alternative systems (while we continue to resist and expose the evils of the old system). Look at that overpriced machine sitting on your desk -- yeah, the one that's allowing you to read this blathering email message, and reply to it if you so choose. It won't be long until one of these gizmos is a necessary tool for pretty much any type of economic activity. Go ahead, get rid of the government, extricate yourself all you want. How the hell are you going to extricate yourself from Apple and Microsoft (or CrappleSoft, if they ever get around to merging)? How are you going to send email or check USENET without BellBeast's phone lines? But technology, of course, is a two-edged sword. There are many, many potential technological solutions that could help us set ourselves free, but they must be solutions that are developed and initiated independently of the established system. We must learn to survive independently in the midst of Babylon's house, if for no other reason than to prove it can be done. Why not set up an independent international network of Internet servers based on packet radio? Why not set up an online bartering system and opt out of the Beast system entirely? Why not organize corps of volunteer knowledge workers and guerilla information activists to develop the software and hardware that would be necessary to set up these alternatives? All we really need is food, shelter and a little time. There is no end to the possibilities, if people actually got together and started DOING something. Again, it's important to debate economic issues as thoroughly as one might beat a dead horse, but it is also extremely important to put ideas into action. When our leaders are derelict and corrupt, we must lead ourselves; when
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Nurev wrote: It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of capitalism. MJ wrote: Your blatant contradiction of yourself aside ... Capitalism requires a SEPARATION of the economy and the state -- hardly a reality within the US. I agree, MJ, the economy is entangled with the state apparatus in Amerika -- but the people have for all intents and purposes been forcibly divorced from their government. And while we do have a slightly mixed economy, the corporate class receives the benefits of a socialist state apparatus, with "free markets" for the poor, and for those who seek to remain independent from the control structure. This in itself serves to repress and extinguish independent thought in favor of programmed human behavior -- b ehavior based on repetition, not insight or progress. There don't seem to be any clear or easy answers, but obviously, it would be an improvement if we had an economic system that focused primarily on human creativity and innovation, instead of the mass hallucinations of the marketplace and the unthinking, amoral pursuit of the direction of least resistance. If we, as individuals, work to produce more than we consume (when possible), and work to address actual human needs instead of the bizarre hypercommodification of anything that registers with the public's neurons, then to my mind it doesn't matter WHAT brand economy we have. With all respect, though, as far as theoretical arguments go, neither socialism nor capitalism are likely to save us any time soon. We need to build our own economy. Peace out Merry Whatnot, Charles Overbeck ParaScope DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Typical Libertarian bullshit. America has a slightly mixed economy which is firmly in the hands of Capitalists. The very worst of both possibilities. It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of capitalism. Joshua2 It is kind of interesting how B.G.L.'s (Big Government Lovers) suffer a disconnect when expounding on "socialism" and "capitalism" in Amerika. Whether "Nazism", "Communism", or "Predatory Capitalism", what we are really talking about is Statism in all its glory. You have a Sociopathic Elite who utilize and foster statist policies to control all facets of our economic and political life. Where would Monsanto be without the F.D.A.? What they must have is coercive statism. Intrusive laws controlling all elements of our daily life in order to manipulate the system for their own advantage. They depend on social marxist dupes, those who expouse the New Secular Good Government Religion, that "good government" throught its "enlightened policies" directed by "good people" will overcome the basic nature of Man and produce ultimately social and political Goodness. Evil Political / Sociopaths I can understand. They cannot help themselves. They are born defective. What sickens me are the "reformers", those who feel "compassion" who ultimately support the policy of "let me help you or I will have to hurt you" philosophy. The road to Political Hell is paved with "compassion" and "good government". FLW DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Where would Monsanto be without the F.D.A.? This seems like a cart-before-the-horse question. The FDA is staffed with people from industry. Like the other government agencies, it is a weak force compared to the realities of global corporatism. Monsanto could live without it--it has no impact on European or Asian markets, for instance. kt kt DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Nurev wrote: It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of capitalism. MJ wrote: Your blatant contradiction of yourself aside ... Capitalism requires a SEPARATION of the economy and the state -- hardly a reality within the US. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And while we do have a slightly mixed economy, ... MJ: 'Slightly mixed'??? Name one business one may participate (legally) which is devoid of government. Regard$, --MJ Property is prior to law; the sole function of the law is to safeguard the right to property wherever it exists, wherever it is formed, in whatever manner the worker produces it, whether individually or in association, provided that he respects the rights of others. -- Frederic Bastiat DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- Someone wrote: May I suggest that all who are disaffected by Socialism on the one hand, and "vulture" (Pat Buchanan's phrase) or "loan shark" capitalism (which we have in the US now) snip MJ: May I recommend an education in terminology before one attempts to malign 'a rose by ANOTHER name'? America has NOT a capitalist economy but a MIXED economy with Government controls, regulations and planning to its detriment. nurev wrote: Typical Libertarian bullshit. America has a slightly mixed economy which is firmly in the hands of Capitalists. The very worst of both possibilities. It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of capitalism. MJ: Your blatant contradiction of yourself aside ... Capitalism requires a SEPARATION of the economy and the state -- hardly a reality within the US. As Thomas Sowell stated: A totalitarian state thrives on propaganda, and there is no more effective way to limit thought than to control the language itself. By changing definitions of words through continual association, any serious discussion involving the concepts that the words represents becomes hopelessly muddled. The words "democracy," "hate" and "racism" immediately comes to mind. What better way to malign liberty and freedom than calling apples, oranges ... blaming the oranges for that which is otherwise not possible. Regard$, --MJ The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. -- Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?
-Caveat Lector- "M. A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- At 05:18 AM 12/21/1998 -0500, Jim Condit Jr. wrote: -Caveat Lector- May I suggest that all who are disaffected by Socialism on the one hand, and "vulture" (Pat Buchanan's phrase) or "loan shark" capitalism (which we have in the US now) snip MJ: May I recommend an education in terminology before one attempts to malign 'a rose by ANOTHER name'? America has NOT a capitalist economy but a MIXED economy with Government controls, regulations and planning to its detriment. Regard$, --MJ Typical Libertarian bullshit. America has a slightly mixed economy which is firmly in the hands of Capitalists. The very worst of both possibilities. It's the Capitalist Elites who enjoy the fruits of Socialism by owning the government. And it's the poor and working class who enjoy the bitter leftovers of capitalism. Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
