CS: Legal-delay over charging officers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] POLICE OFFICERS FACE DELAY OVER SHOOTING CHARGES 251523 SEP 10 By Damien Pearse, Crime Correspondent, PA News A decision on whether to prosecute police officers who shot dead a man who was carrying a table leg - which they thought was a gun - has been delayed while prosecutors seek further legal advice, it emerged today. The Crown Prosecution Service had expected that an announcement on whether officers would face criminal charges over the death of Harry Stanley would be made earlier this month. But a spokesman said that the file had now been sent back to counsel for further consideration and to "clarify certain matters". It could be several weeks before a decision is made, the spokesman said. Mr Stanley, a father-of-three, was killed by two police officers near his home in Hackney, east London, after walking back from his local pub in September last year. Police were alerted by a pub customer who dialled 999 claiming that Scots-born Mr Stanley, 46, was carrying a sawn-off shotgun. He had, in fact, just been to collect the chair leg from his brother Pete, who was a carpenter and had repaired the piece of furniture. Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-obsolete calibers
From: andrew, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I heard that the home office has published a revised list of obsolete calibers. Is this true and if so where can I get a copy? -- Er, the Home Office? If it's the list I'm thinking of it's in the tenth annual report of the FCC, if the list you're talking about is the one to do with antiques. Try www.homeoffice.gov.uk Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Australia firearm coaches available
From: SSAA, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brisbane Sunday Mail 24/9/3000 Edited Coaches get the Bullet The gloss has been taken off the Australian team's three-medal haul with news its world-class coaching team is to be broken up. Head Coach Bill Murray and his assistants Luca Scribani Rossi and Greg Chan (clay target) Miro Sipek (rifle) and John Gillman (pistol) are today looking for jobs overseas after being told their contracts which expire on Dec 31 will not be renewed. A slash in government funding to the Australian Sports Commission's elite sports program has resulted in the loss of Australia's best shooting coaches. The funding, which amounts to about $1.5 million a year will be taken away from a professional umbrella and instead be directed to each individual branch of the Australian Shooting Association - clay target, rifle, pistol and running target. There will be no paid coaching positions. "So despite our success in Sydney we leave the place pretty devastated and very concerned where our sport is headed" Murray said. SSAA were concerned about where our sport was headed 4 years ago. -- Do you have a national lottery in Australia? I am certain 90% of the improvement in our Olympic performance is due to the lottery funding of new facilities and the teams. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Police kill mercenary who had air rifle
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Times 26.9.00 Police kill mercenary who had air rifle BY PAUL WILKINSON A FORMER British mercenary in the Balkans died yesterday when he was shot by police after going on the run armed with an air rifle. Kirk Davies, who was said to have killed 46 Serbs while working as a sniper for Croatian special forces, was shot by police marksmen, who cornered him outside a hospital. Officers believed that he was armed with a high-powered assault rifle. Davies, 30, had threatened staff at Pinderfields Hospital in Wakefield, West Yorkshire, as he demanded to see a woman he believed worked there. Two hours earlier, dressed in black, he had pointed his gun, wrapped in camouflage netting, at a constable manning the inquiry desk of a police station 20 miles away. As the Police Complaints Authority began an investigation yesterday, it emerged that Davies had a history of unstable behaviour. He had joined the Army, then deserted to become a mercenary in Croatia in an attempt to live up to his father, who had filled his head with tales of his days as an SAS hero. Three years ago, after killing dozens of people and witnessing horrific carnage, Davies discovered that his father's war stories were a fantasy: his military experience was limited to driving lorries. When he found that out, Davies tried to attack him. He was subsequently jailed for nine months. At an appeal hearing in August 1997 at York Crown Court, his barrister, Robert Collins, said that Davies's mother had admitted to her son, "who had done things and seen sights no other person would like to think about, that his father's war stories of dare and do and the SAS were a load of rubbish. Davies believed following in his father's footsteps had led him to do terrible things and become involved in killing. He attributes it to the influence of his father's stories." He suffered frequent bouts of stress and depression and had a volatile relationship with the girlfriend from whom he had recently split. The events that led to his being shot began on Sunday night when he burst into the police station in his home town of Selby, North Yorkshire. After menacing the desk officer he fled. About 90 minutes later, at about 10.20pm, he was seen at the Newton Lodge secure psychiatric unit in the grounds of Pinderfields. Andy Brown, Assistant Chief Constable of West Yorkshire, said that he had barged his way into the reception area. "We believe he was looking for someone who didn't work at the secure unit but may have worked at one of the other hospitals near by. She was a woman, but not his wife or girlfriend." When armed response officers arrived he was challenged to hand over his weapon, but refused. Mr Brown said: "He was again challenged and shots were subsequently fired by the police." He was taken to Pinderfields and was pronounced dead at 12.20am. Mr Brown said: "We don't know why he went to Selby police station and we don't know what he wanted with the woman he asked for." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Shooting chat room
From: andrew gant, [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you would like to chat to other shooters live over the internet visit The Shooters Website chat room at www.claypigeonshoots.co.uk Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Nice Sort of People
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SHOT BURGLAR'S BROTHER JAILED FOR CONNING ELDERLY WOMEN 261429 SEP 10 By Brian Farmer, PA News The brother of one of the burglars shot by farmer Tony Martin was today jailed for five years after a judge heard how he conned two elderly and vulnerable women out of nearly ú40,000. Judge Jonathan Haworth told Neil Fearon, 33, who admitted theft, burglary and deception, that his crimes were "despicable and outrageous" after a hearing at Cambridge Crown Court. Fearon, of Mercia Avenue, Newark, Nottinghamshire, preyed on a 79-year-old former teacher and councillor in Cambridge and then targeted a 76-year-old woman in Chelsea, central London, the court heard. His brother, Brendon, 30, was jailed for three years earlier this year at Norwich Crown Court for conspiring to burgle Martin's home in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk. Brendon, also of Newark, was shot in the groin and thigh by Martin during the raid in August 1999. His accomplice, Fred Barras, 16, also of Newark, was shot dead by the 55-year-old farmer, who was jailed for life for murder at Norwich Crown Court in April. Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-ECHR will change ACPO policies
From: "Ron Rosenfeld", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This morning just before 9 on radio 4 it was said that with the introduction of the European Convention on Human Rights into English law the previously (virtually) secret ACPO guidance on the use of firearms will have to be published. Perhaps there are a few subscriber who would be in a position to assist them in making it comply with Article 2, the Right to Life. There are also concerns that PACE will 'not be up to the mark' and also that the Police will come under close scrutiny for deaths in custody. The family of the man shot by Police a year ago (I forget His name) with the table leg in the carrier bag have recieved very little information as to what went wrong. No wonder when they face murder charges. -- I reckon it may be possible to use the ECHR to force the police out of the firearm licensing business if we play our cards right in court. Go to the library and read Article 6 and some of the judgements the ECHR have made under it. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-lottery funding
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you have a national lottery in Australia? I am certain 90% of the improvement in our Olympic performance is due to the lottery funding of new facilities and the teams. Steve. Could someone just give chapter and verse on what lottery funding has been used for shooting sports. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Land Warrior
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Land Warrior gives platoon big advantage in field test By Matthew Cox FORT POLK, La. - Land Warrior has passed its first major field test, officials say, proving the complex computer system can give infantrymen the home-field advantage even on an unfamiliar battlefield. Armed with the latest version of the Army's Land Warrior, a platoon of soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division parachuted into Fort Polk on Sept. 8 to assess its performance when matched against a highly trained opposing force at the Joint Readiness Training Center. The exercise was part of the Joint Contingency Force Advanced Warfighting Experiment designed to evaluate how a number of new technologies might affect the way forces fight in the future. The experiment, scheduled to run through Sept. 21, involves more than 4,000 soldiers from the 82nd, 10th Mountain and 4th Infantry (Mechanized) divisions as well as a company of Marines. Keeping in touch Despite heavy rains and high humidity, Land Warrior's microprocessor and built-in global positioning satellite system enabled every soldier in 2nd Platoon, C Company, 3rd Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment to acquire targets, navigate with precision over foreign terrain and remain in constant contact with leaders during the intensive week of force-on-force and live-fire operations. "It's an enormous achievement," said program director Col. Bruce Jette. "So far, the system has met and demonstrated all that we expected it to." Jette had reason to be upbeat. The successful test comes just two years after costly system failures forced a complete program overhaul. Land Warrior's newest prototypes were delivered June 5 to Fort Bragg, N.C. Since then, the platoon of paratroopers has been working closely with engineers to become proficient with the system while identifying areas that need improvement. They learned how to access maps and graphics, locate each other and communicate using voice and instant messaging features. While often frustrating, the tedious training appeared to pay off quickly after the Land Warrior platoon hit the drop zone as part of 3rd Battalion's seizure of the airfield. Locating the assembly area at night often is a time-consuming task for paratroopers, who must first determine their location by using a map and terrain association. But for soldiers armed with Land Warrior, the task proved surprisingly simple. Once the system was unpacked and booted up, each soldier used the heads-up display in the eyepiece to access a pre-loaded map of the area. On it, each soldier's location was marked, so they could all walk directly to the assembly point. "Approximately 45 minutes after time on target, we had 85 percent accountability," said Sgt. 1st Class Rodney Stephens, adding normal assemblies can take more than twice that long. One squad was delayed after coming into contact with a sniper from the 1st Battalion (Airborne), 509th Infantry Regiment, JRTC's opposing-force unit, soon after landing. "He fired about five shots and three went down," recalled Spc. Anthony Romeo. "He was a good shot." The exercise participants used laser integrated rifles and systems to simulate actual live fire. Romeo said he was able to use Land Warrior to locate his squad leader's position on the drop zone and call for help. "I was able to talk to my squad leader and bring him into my position," he said. "When he did come over the hill, I knew it was him and not the enemy." Killing sniper at 300 meters But before help could arrive, Sgt. Chad Leasure took advantage of the thermal weapons sight mounted on his M-4 carbine to clearly ferret out the sniper. He then "killed" the sniper at a distance of 300 meters - a feat he said would have been impossible against a well-concealed sniper without Land Warrior. "There is no way I would have been able to engage him at that distance," Leasure said. "We had six guys with us. I think we would have all died if we had tried to take out a sniper at that distance across an open field." Leasure then continued his suppressive fire, until Romeo and a fellow soldier overtook the sniper's spotter. Throughout the exercise, the battalion commander said he was impressed at how the Land Warrior system took the guesswork out of land navigation. That meant the platoon could cover more ground faster than they normally would. "It is a revolutionary change," said Lt. Col. Michael Garrett. "Now you have an infantryman who not only knows where he is at all times, but he also knows where his buddies are to the left and right." Despite all the rave reviews, soldiers also are quick to point out that the system is far from perfect. One of the main shortcomings in the $135 million program is the radio system - unreliable at distances beyond 200 meters depending on the terrain. "You would think with the amount of money they spent on this thing, you would be able to talk at greater distances," platoon sergeant Stephens
CS: Crime-Violence in the UK
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apparently government is setting aside large sums of money to help protect students. They have become the latest target of the criminals. Some have even been held up at gun point and the numbers being held up in such a way are increasing rapidly. Surely not. I thought we were all going to be safe a cuddly. -- Pierre Tanner Freelance PhotoJournalist and Designer. Mac Systems Consultant -- What got me was the Merseyside Police spokesman saying they were handing out maps showing the "safe" areas of Liverpool! I thought there were no "no-go" areas according to the police? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Olympic Reports
From: andrew gant, [EMAIL PROTECTED] A round up of all the Olympic Shooting results is available at www.claypigeonshoots.co.uk - reports are available for most of the 16 events. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Small but perfectly formed
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eight-year-old suspended over key-ring An eight-year-old schoolboy in the US has been suspended for taking a gun-shaped key-ring into class. Education chiefs in Green Bay, Wisconsin said the student was suspended for a day because he breached their ban on carrying replica firearms. The key-ring is about an inch-and-a-half in length. Steve, The same exact thing happened here in Seattle, last year I do believe. This is all predicated on the thought of 'Zero Tolerance', or the theme of absolute conformance. It is the mindset that is being used by the federal government to ultimately fix in the minds of children that firearms are 'bad', and therefore must be shunned whenever, and wherever they are seen. It is tantamount to changing the culture, and the antis pursue this policy whenever they get the chance. In the above, the federal government gets to make this call, even though it should be a state's call, because the states are taking money from the fed, and the fed gets to call the shots or the state loses the money. ET -- I have some Glock keyrings which have a tiny replica Glock 17 on them, I'll remember not to carry one in a US school! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Radio Four
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whilst I have no opinion on this particular interview as I didn't hear it I do agree with the general point. The standard of reporting on all but the high profile sports in this Olympics has been awful. Intelligent and informed commentating and interviewing has been plentiful in track and field events also the swimming events have faired well. How surprising is this though when we have the likes of Sally Gunnel, Roger Black and Sharon Davies all carving themselves a niche in Sports TV. Although it's too much to hope for that every event will have a media trained ex competitor presenting the whole show I don't see why some of our licence fee can't be splashed out on having at least one person capable of explaining the intricacies of any sport liable to be shown wether we win a medal or not. How difficult (or expensive ) can it be to have the likes of a Michael Yardley on call to comment from a studio back here. Some of the old timers seem to get it right, David Vine seems to manage well enough with the weightlifting. Probably the heaviest thing he's lifted is his wallet but he's enough of a professional to inform himself and pass the knowledge on without talking down. They wouldn't dare televise a nag race with " The brown one with the jockey in blue and red seems to be winning" so why should the lower profile sports have to suffer. It does seem to be a trend though. Just about every broadcaster seems all to ready to brag about their ignorance of anything to do with computers whilst using them every working day. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-air pellets
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out, www.ukgunproducts.com there is New links page at the bottom of page. BOB/R Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Anne Pearston
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes many laws are bans. But there is an important distinction to be made, between the banning of objects and the banning of actions. IMO the banning of actions (e.g. murder, theft, fraud) is most morally sound. The banning of objects is less so and, more importantly, largely ineffective. Julian, The creation of new crimes, statutory "absolute" offences, is arguably unknown to our constitution. . "Throughout the web of the English criminal law one golden thread is always to be seen, that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt...No matter what the charge or where the trial, the principle that the prosecution must prove the guilt of the prisoner is part of the common law of England and no attempt to whittle it down can be entertained." Stones Justice's Manual. Preface to 1990 Edition. The authoritative "Taylor Upon Evidence" has this to say about burden of proof; "The right which every man has to his character, the value of that character to himself and his family, and the evil consequences that would result to society if charges of guilt were lightly entertained, or readily established in Courts of justice:- these are the real considerations which have led to the adoption of the rule that all imputations of crime must be strictly proved." The Firearms Act 1920 and the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 are based on the principle that Parliament can create new offences, that everyone is guilty from the date of their adoption, and then allow exceptions at the discretion of the police. They have shifted the burden of proof onto the defence, which is something that never happened before. This purported power of Parliament was objected to strongly by many MPs in the debates on the Prevention of Crime Act 1953. They generated about 90 pages of debate in Hansard on a Bill that was little more than one page long. Several MPs were only prepared to accept the Bill as a short-term emergency measure to be reviewed after five years. The Government claimed that the measure was necessary to deal with an outbreak of violent crime. James Carmichael (MP for Glasgow, Bridgeton), pointed out that Scottish crime figures had actually dropped significantly in the preceding years and the Bill was an over-reaction to misleading press reports (Hansard, 26 March 1953). Several references were made to the fact that at that time the assurances given by Ministers that the police would act responsibly and with restraint was worthless because what had been said in Parliament could not be referred to in the Courts. The Bill was passed, and soon the presumption of innocence was set aside in other legislation without a murmur. ( But Pepper v. Hart came to the rescue). This has resulted in the proliferation of Statutory absolute offences. In the common law guilt could only be inferred from a persons actions and evidence of his mental intent at that time. Thus stealing is the taking of property belonging to another with evidence of an intention to permanently deprive the owner of it. The Statutory offence of simple possession of an unlicensed "prohibited weapon" is purported to be a crime regardless of the circumstances as are selling apples by the pound or beef on the bone. Statutory "crimes" are whatever the legislature decides. A victim or intent is not required. We seem to have come to a point where the ancient rightness of the common law has been set aside. The Courts have given up legislative supremacy to Parliament. And they have been allowed to do this because no one has gone before a Court and claimed his common law rights. Those rights of the subject are written, but have been hidden and forgotten. And here lies the danger to us all. The only power that Government has is to manufacture criminals. If Government believes that it can do as it wishes without the restraint of a Constitution which is enforceable through the Courts then no one and nothing is safe from the whims and prejudices of the legislators. John Locke, the philosopher, was a major influence in the education of the generation that debated what became the English Bill of Rights in 1688. We can have an insight into the mischief that the representatives of the people sought to avoid with the passing of the Statue which "Declares the Rights and Liberties of the subject...in all time to come". "Man is a maker of things, and a property owning animal... From the right to self-defence and protection of property comes the right to the rule of law, and a multitude of like rights, such as the right to privacy expressed as 'An Englishman's home is his castle'. A ruler is legitimate only in so far as he upholds the law. A ruler that violates the law is illegitimate. He has no right to be obeyed; his commands are mere force and coercion. Rulers who act lawlessly, whose laws are unlawful, are mere criminals." The following
CS: Target-Radio Four
From: Janet L Jackson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let's be fair here. The interviewer was Eleanor Oldroyd, who used to do a one-hour programme from 11 to midnight on Fridays on Radio 4, talking to various sportsmen and generally making sport reasonably interesting to non-sports-addicts. I heard her interview and thought it was very fair and a decent length - if you look back to Pierre Tanner's original message he says 4 to 6 minutes, which is a long interview. Her failure to know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun gave Richard a chance to set her straight, and her interview also brought out well his very young start to shooting and his dedication. She certainly wasn't "dumbing down" the interview content, but made it clear and accessible to Radio 4 listeners. It's likely that having her mistake corrected would make the interview stick in the listener's mind better, and she was not pushing any anti views, which makes a change for Radio 4. It was certainly positive enough to flabbergast me, too. Janet Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Bear Knuckle Fighting?
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man fights bear with bare fists A 64-year-old man punched a bear in the face after it attacked him, causing the animal to run off. Steve, Kenneth, That is highly unusual! Most black bear attacks that are known, usually resulted in the death of the person. Brown bears, for all their ferocity, can be persuaded to depart the scene in several ways, whereas black bears will tend to stick around to maul the hell out of you -- usually ending in death. The standing advice to visitors at Northwest Trek in Seattle, is that if attacked by a black bear, fight like there's no tomorrow -- or their might not be one. In the woods I take no chance: I pack a .50 AE. If that doesn't convince them . . . Of course, a well placed sock to the nose might do it too, it would seem. ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Small but perfectly formed
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eight-year-old suspended over key-ring An eight-year-old schoolboy in the US has been suspended for taking a gun-shaped key-ring into class. Education chiefs in Green Bay, Wisconsin said the student was suspended for a day because he breached their ban on carrying replica firearms. The key-ring is about an inch-and-a-half in length. The boy's mother said she would appeal against the ruling in an attempt to have it removed from his record. She told The Green Bay News-Chronicle: "It's a key chain. I think it's a little extreme. How far will this policy go?" Her son was apparently showing the plastic toy to his classmates when one of them told their teacher about it. Source: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_68287.html Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Vihtavuori powders
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The latest comment from Andrew Lambley seems logical to me as an explanation for the leading problems I experienced. However, the GECO bullets I used were swaged, not cast, and appeared to be pure lead - very soft and coated with a waxy lubricant that was sticky to the touch. The muzzle velocities I was measuring with my chronograph with N310 powder and these bullets were similar to 'factory' 38 Special target wadcutter ammunition tested over the same instrument - and the cases were obturating properly against the chamber walls (nice, clean brass, not much 'smoking' of the case mouths). This would seem to indicate adequate pressure was being generated but, of course, gives no indication of the pressure/time curve for my loads and so Andrew's explanation of the problem could still have applied. The hollow base bullet's journey from cartridge case to barrel is quite a rough one. Once it has left the case it will upset to fill, or try to fill, the chamber ahead of the case mouth (357 Magnum chamber). It will then be swaged down to fit the chamber mouth and will then negotiate the cylinder/barrel gap (0.005" in my revolver) and be expanded again as it enters the barrel forcing cone where it will now be swaged to fit the barrel. Lots of opportunities for lead to be shaved off. I must admit that, having experienced the leading problem with target loads, using a variety of purchased swaged bullets - and some cast ones too - I did not push the hollow based wadcutters any faster with N310 and so I don't know if that would have solved the problem. I didn't really want my target loads to be any hotter than the ones I was producing anyway as they nicely duplicated the factory wadcutter performance. I had no troubles at all with Silvalube 158 grn round nosed lead bullets - these bullets seemed to be much harder than the GECO's. I accept that the problem could still be attributable to my revolver but it was not limited to just that gun. As I stated, I got the same problem with my friend's 586 and it disappeared when I changed to Bullseye powder in both guns. This leads me to believe that the cause was a property of N310, not of my gun. Apart from the leading, it was a superb, clean-burning powder, easy to use in every way. I still have some! The term 'velocity leading' is a carry over from the days when I used to read American reloading manuals and Gun Digest etc. It refers to the streaks of lead deposited in the barrel as the bullets pass through it. Jacketted bullets leave streaks of jacket material in rifle barrels too, hence the industry that has built up to market cleaning fluids that will 'safely' remove this fouling without damaging the rifle's barrel material in the process. The mechanism for this deposition could be simple (?) friction as the lubricant breaks down. It was assumed by all in those days (1950'/60's) that this process was related to the velocity of the bullet - as well as to its dimensions and other physical properties such as hardness, surface roughness of the bore etc.- and it would normally be expected to be most obvious where the velocity was greatest, i.e. near the muzzle end of the barrel. I am rambling again! Richard Malbon Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Martin accuses solicitor of incompetence
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SHOOTING CASE FARMER IN BID FOR RETRIAL 251351 SEP 10 By Mike Taylor, PA News Jailed farmer Tony Martin is accusing the solicitor who prepared his unsuccessful defence to a murder charge of failing to do a proper job. Martin's new legal team have filed a ground of appeal alleging that solicitor Nick Makin "failed to prepare the case properly and failed to advise the defendant properly as to the various defences available to him". The farmer is serving life for shooting dead 16-year-old burglar Fred Barras and wounding a second burglar, Brendan Fearon, 30, when the pair raided his remote farmhouse home, Bleak House, Emneth Hungate, near Emneth, Norfolk. Martin, jailed in April, is to challenge the jury's verdicts in the Court of Appeal, claiming among other things that he acted lawfully in self-defence. He is seeking the right to a retrial. At a preliminary hearing in London today, three appeal judges heard that his new solicitors, Saunders and Co, were also now arguing that he was denied a fair hearing because the defence of provocation and the question of whether his mental state influenced his actions were not properly considered by Mr Makin before the trial. Martin's counsel, Michael Wolkind QC, said Mr Makin's firm, M and S Solicitors, of Leicestershire, was unwilling to disclose certain documents relating to what instructions were given to his trial barrister, Anthony Scrivener QC. Mr Scrivener had helpfully provided some of the case papers, but Mr Makin had failed to disclose documents detailing what instructions he received from Martin or how he briefed Mr Scrivener. A complaint about Mr Makin's conduct of the defence had been sent to the Office for the Supervision of Solicitors (OSS), Mr Wolkind told Lord Justice Kennedy, Mr Justice Forbes and Mrs Justice Steel. Harry Martineau, counsel for Mr Makin, said the allegations made against him to the OSS were either "plain wrong" or arose from misunderstandings or inaccuracies. And the new proposed ground of appeal questioning his conduct of the defence was in such general terms that it was impossible to know what documents were being sought. The judges adjourned the hearing until next month and directed Martin's lawyers to provide Mr Makin and Mr Scrivener with details of the new ground of appeal so that they could respond. An application for disclosure of documents will be made, if necessary, at the adjourned hearing. Martin, who is backed by a defence fund from public donations, was today refused legal aid for his appeal. Lord Justice Kennedy said that "in the light of the material before us, this application for legal aid is not one to which we can accede". Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Gay shot gays because of teasing
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AP Headlines Gay Shooting Linked to Jokes September 25, 2000 -- ROANOKE, Va. -- Ronald Gay, the man accused of killing one person and wounding six others in a gay bar, acted because of long-standing anger at the jokes people made of his last name, police said. ''He admits to shooting people,'' police investigator Lt. William Althoff told The Washington Post on Sunday. ''He told us people made fun of his name. ... He told us that he was upset about that.'' Gay, 53, faces a murder charge in the shootings Friday night at the Backstreet Cafe. He was being held without bond Sunday. Danny Lee Overstreet, 43, was killed at the scene. One other victim, Iris Page Webb, 41, was in critical condition after being shot in the neck. ''I'm shocked and saddened by this terrible, terrible crime,'' Mayor Ralph Smith said at a news conference Saturday. ''Any time one member of our community is hurt, we all suffer by that same hand.'' William Gay, the suspect's brother, told The Roanoke Times on Sunday that his brother was the target of teasing when he was in the Marine Corps because of his name, but harbored no ill feelings toward homosexuals. ''When I went to school, gay just meant 'happy,''' said William Gay, who lives in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. He said his brother, who served in Vietnam, had been trying to get medicine for post-traumatic stress disorder from the nearby Salem Veterans Affairs Medical Center. ''When they did not give him his medication ... they were creating a time bomb,'' William Gay said. A spokesman for the VA center could not confirm Sunday night whether Gay was a patient. According to police, Gay went to a tavern Friday and asked directions to the nearest gay bar, telling people he wanted to shoot gays. Someone gave him directions and immediately called police, who were looking for Gay when the shooting report came in. John W. Collins, 39, was one of those wounded. Collins told the Post that the gunfire erupted just after he and Overstreet, a friend, hugged. Gay ''stood up as I was letting go of the hug, and he was turning and he was also reaching into his black trench coat,'' said Collins, who was shot in the stomach. ''I saw the gun come out of his pocket. ... Everything was like in a millionth of a second.'' Gay left the bar after the shootings but was later found by police about two blocks away. Officers found a 9 mm pistol in a trash can near the bar. Members of the Washington-based National Gay and Lesbian Task Force came to Roanoke for a candlelight vigil Saturday night at Backstreet Cafe. Flowers, cards and balloons were placed outside the bar by members of the community. Kenneth Pantling Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny. (Edmund Burkeá1729-97) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
