CS: Target-6x47mm
From: Peter H Jackson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you going for gold Steve ? - tell us more. Rusty -- I just want something decent for 300m. I assume 6x47 is favoured over 6mm PPC because 6x47 has more going for it at 300m as they were both originally designed for benchrest. Steve, The current favourite for 300 m seems to be the 6 mm BR Norma (6 BR Rem with 1.5 deg throat and 9" or 8" twist for 95 or 105 grain VLDs. Apart from being an ideal shape and size for the 6 mm bore, there is the advantage of Lapua brass which is of outstanding quality without being expensive. The short, fat 6 BR case has the same base diameter as 308 Win. etc., but uses small rifle primers. Muzzle velocity with a 95 grain bullet (BC= 0.5) is just below 3,000 fps, which means that barrel fouling is not too severe. In the USA and Canada a lot of people are using the 6 BR for F-class and 1,000 yd bench-rest. Larry Bartholeme used one to set a 2.653" Light Gun (1,000 yd) five-shot record at the NBRSA nationals in 1999. It is catching on in this country too. David Jackson (no relation) used one to win the Old Fogey's class (NRA F-class) at the County of Lancaster Open this year. I have three 6 BR projects on the books for next year, so far... Rgds, Peter. www.jacksonrifles.com Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-AOL Fires Gun Owners
AOL Fires Gun Owners Date:10/30/2000 1:01:00 AM Written By:Sarah Thompson, M.D. AOL Fires Gun Owners by Sarah Thompson, M.D. Director, Utah Gun Owners Alliance http://www.UTGOA.org America Online, http://www.aol.com, has been known to gun owners for some time for their support of anti-gun organizations and policies. TheyÆve donated large sums of money to liberal, anti-gun Democrat organizations to support people like Dianne Feinstein, Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy. More recently, theyÆve canceled accounts for firearms related web sites on the grounds that such material is no different from ôpornographyö. Never mind that guns are entirely legal items owned by tens of millions of Americans. Never mind that AOL doesnÆt seem to think that disgustingly offensive rock music is a problem. Now, in another step towards the final elimination of gun owners from ôcivilized societyö, AOL has fired three exemplary workers for having firearms in their cars in order to go shooting at a range on their own time! The three employees are Luke Hansen, Jason Melling and Paul Carlson. All three worked as ôpartner technical consultantsö at AOLÆs Ogden, Utah facility, doing higher level technical support. The Ogden facility employs about 850 people, according to AOLÆs web site, and ôhandles a range of technical, billing, third-party and sales callsö. According to Mr. Hansen, they had worked at AOL for two to four years, and all had good employee records and good reviews from their supervisors. Unfortunately (at least from AOLÆs point of view), the three young men also enjoy shooting. On September 14, 2000, Luke, Jason and Paul met after work in the AOL parking lot to go shooting at the gun range near Eden, Utah. In order to carpool to the range, Jason and Paul transferred their firearms from their own cars to LukeÆs truck, a matter of carrying them a few yards. Jason transferred a .30-06 hunting rifle and a 9mm Smith Wesson handgun. Both firearms were unloaded and in cases. Paul transferred a .45 long Colt ôcowboy styleö pistol and a 7.63 X .39 KBI. The Colt was in a holster, and both firearms were unloaded. The handguns had trigger locks in place. LukeÆs firearms were in his truck and he never touched Jason or PaulÆs firearms. At no time did they brandish or handle the firearms in a threatening or unsafe manner. Luke and Paul hold valid Utah concealed weapons permits, and Jason is in the process of obtaining one, so all three are familiar with safe handling and Utah laws. Although all three of them worked during the subsequent three days, nothing about the firearms was mentioned. However, on Monday, Sept. 18, all three were fired for ôviolating AOLÆs employee policyö which states that firearms are forbidden on company property, including the parking lot. According to Luke, although no one complained, an overzealous security guard saw the firearms on a video surveillance tape and reported the alleged violations. AOL does have its firearms policy posted inside the front and back doors of the building, stating that firearms are not permitted in the building or in the parking lot, and all three employees were aware of this policy. However, they were also aware that AOLÆs policy violates Utah state law. AOL states that it is a ôsecure facilityö, although under Utah law secure facilities can be designated only by the legislature, and include places such as courts, airports, mental health facilities, and prisons. By definition, a place open to the public cannot be a ôsecure facilityö, and AOLÆs parking lot is open to the public. (Actually, itÆs a group of marked stalls in a public parking lot.) In addition, a secure facility is required to provide locked safe storage for anyone lawfully carrying a firearm, and accept responsibility for stored firearms, something that AOL clearly was not equipped to do. On a previous occasion about two months ago, the three men had also transferred firearms after work, and had been reported to management. At that time, Luke Hansen met with AOLÆs General Manager, Sarah McElwee. At that time, he explained to Ms. McElwee that while AOL might be able to restrict firearms in the building, it could not restrict firearms in a public parking lot, and that AOL did not meet the criteria for a ôsecure facilityö. Mr. Hansen says he thought the matter was resolved at the time, although no written changes were made to AOLÆs policy. Ironically, Ms. McElweeÆs husband is known for the very fine firearms he makes! As a result of the firing, Paul is still looking for work. Jason, who has a wife and just bought a new home, has found a new job. So has Luke, who is expecting his first child in February. It appears that AOL management, and especially Ric Waiters, the AOL manager who fired the three, want to force the issue of illegal, politically correct, gun bans. Fortunately for gun owners everywhere, Luke Hansen, Jason Melling and Paul Carlson are not going to take this lying
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: Mike Taylor, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Snip I consider it insane that our elected government deny the people the possibility of executing criminals on the thin ground that the police have in the past accused innocent people and got them hanged. AGREED! At least have a referendum on it.. snip I have no moral objection to capital punishment but can you really dismiss a fatal miscarriage of justice so lightly? In the case of Stefan Kisko he was convicted of raping and murdering a child. He did 16 years inside as a child molester. Had the law allowed, he would have been hanged. The evidence that cleared him was available at the time of his conviction. He was sterile, as samples taken from him at the time proved. The rapist was not. The prosecution must have known. He was a misfit but he was harmless. He confessed under interrogation. So the forensic evidence was conveniently ignored. Under pressure to get a result, people do many things they would otherwise not do. It is unlikely to happen to you, IG. But if it ever did, I hope you would go to the gallows with the same level of enthusiasm that you have for hanging other innocent people. In a referendum before his arrest, Stefan Kisko might have voted for capital punishment for child murderers. After all, he wasn't one so what would it matter? -- We're getting way OT here but I have to say I've never been much of a fan of the death sentence because most people who receive it are penniless and you have to ensure they have a thorough appeals process to remove any doubt as to their innocence. It's usually cheaper to lock them up for life. Personally I think being locked in a cell for most of the rest of your life is far greater punishment than being sentenced to die, the problem is that life sentences often relate to the life of an unhealthy cat. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Useful Quote
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] "All persons in whose possession any firearms may hereafter be found, will be deemed enemies to his majesty's government." --Gen. Gage For the list, would you mind giving the attribute to that quote, and perhaps a researchable reference? ET, It was on the 2nd Ammendment Police Department list without a reference unfortuately. Regards, John Hurst. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would Ig like to give us examples of the five per cent of certificate holders to whom he objects? Barry Woodward Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Weapon seizures
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Same basic article in the Mail complete with large picture. Featured weapons include Mac-10, SW .357, Desert Eagle .357, FN Browning 9mm, Brocock .177 cartridge AirPistol!, Sawn-off 12 Bore. There was also a comment on the "Gun Culture" (can't quote, left paper at work) but it may be open to some letters to the editor on an us-verus- them theme. Regads Mally Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Again, why let fact get in the way of a good rumour. I quoted the oft repeated comments that are spouted by the rabid anti-shooting lobby. As the point seems to be lost, why not consider the reality of things. If a rumour is repeated often enough, it becomes fact in the mind of the listener or reader. As I like to think that I am a fairly intelligent individual, I am able to use my own experience of life, of people, of my occupation and when a little common sense is applied, I find that the assertions that I repeated are wholly innaccurate and mostly false. Nevertheless, I repeated them. If you read the responses to that post, despite the fact that I made it abundantly clear that these were RUMOURS, the respondees have, without exception, considered that these are views that I personally hold, or consider to be true. Now then. As it has been written that 66.6% of police officers are corrupt, going by the above experience, eveyone is going to take that as gospel, when in fact it is total, insulting, feverish and rabid CRAP! It does get really boring reading the ill informed comments on the police. Fine, if there is something tangible and informed, but to foster comments such as 'I have heard that ...' is a waste of time! While we are at it, lets deal with some of the comments, no doubt believed, that were made by Norman. nor the assertion that the UK police are the occupational group most likely to possess illegal firearms for the purpose of protecting themselves against the personal malice of the criminals they are paid to pursue. Where in the name of creation did this come from? lol Its like me saying..'actually, bank managers are the most likely people to possess illegal firearms' Benefit of experience..real experience not rumour fed experiencethere is not a problem with police officers having illegal guns for self defence. Doesn't happen. Enlighten me if you know of something that I don't, but try to be factual. The matter of fraudulent police clear-up rates for crimes like burglary has been extensively covered in the national press and I don't see how IG can deny that every member of the police is aware of what's going on and presumably can live with it or we'd have police demonstrations in Wembley Stadium protesting about it. The fraudulent clear up rates are a perennial bone of contention. The home office decides what statistics will be used in clear up rates and in crime recording figues. Instant reduction was made when attempted twoc was made a summary offence with no power of arrest. The effect was..when I got called to a damaged vehicle, (locks smashed, ignition ripped out, etc) I would record it as a clear attempted theft of a motor vehicle. As the criminal attempts act reduced the attempt to a summary offence, it was not therefore part of the home office recordable crime statistics. The crime figures fell overnight! A far as clear ups go, this debate has always centered on prison and offender visits. An offender who has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment would be visited in prison, and would make numerous admissions of crimes. He or she would make these admissions for a number of reasons. They knew that no action would be taken against them, as they were already serving a term of imprisonment. They were therefore making sure that there would be no charges waiting for them when they got released. They often got rewardscigarettes, chocolate, etc. (no, NOT drugs.) A day or so talking to the police relieved the boredom of sitting in a cell. If you look at the HMIC reports on every police force (available online from HMIC web site) you will find all the information about crime statistics, including the methods of compilation. Before running off at the mouth about things like this, try doing some research about the real facts. The situation of UK police corruption deriving from the expanding drugs market in the UK and mirroring what has happened in the US is something I would have thought was fully accepted. No, 'fraid not. No one I know accepts in any way, shape or form any form of corruption. If a bent copper is caught, he goes to prison. Rightly so. I have never met an officer who would hesitate to take action against anyone who is involved in any form of drugs related corruption. If you have any evidence that officers are involved in this, let me know - anonymously if necessary, or through a third party, and I will publicly and openly take the most stringent measures to ensure the longest term of imprisonment is imposed on the guilty parties. I have no problem with that. As for insanity, I personally consider it insane that policemen are being put on the street without sidearms to protect themselves with and that they are not expected, as they are elsewhere, to go armed at all times in uniform or not Personal opinion, fine, I can live with that. My personal opinion is that it would be totally insane (and
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was delighted to read IG's reply to my posting. I had feared my informant was so accurate that NOBODY disputed the assertion in any way at all. I would not like to comment on the assertion that a lot of shooters have illegal firearms, nor the assertion that the UK police are the occupational group most likely to possess illegal firearms for the purpose of protecting themselves against the personal malice of the criminals they are paid to pursue. The matter of fraudulent police clear-up rates for crimes like burglary has been extensively covered in the national press and I don't see how IG can deny that every member of the police is aware of what's going on and presumably can live with it or we'd have police demonstrations in Wembley Stadium protesting about it. Shooters are commonly ex-servicemen and have in fact serially killed people in the course of their duties. The expression "all X should be shot" is an extremely common expression of a political viewpoint which most of the people expressing it mean quite literally. People are entitled to express their political opinions. The situation of UK police corruption deriving from the expanding drugs market in the UK and mirroring what has happened in the US is something I would have thought was fully accepted. As for insanity, I personally consider it insane that policemen are being put on the street without sidearms to protect themselves with and that they are not expected, as they are elsewhere, to go armed at all times in uniform or not. I consider it insane that our government deny law-abiding people the right to carry sidearms for their personal protection. I consider it insane that our elected government deny the people the possibility of executing criminals on the thin ground that the police have in the past accused innocent people and got them hanged. I consider it absolutely beyond question that the government and their agents the police have a vested interest in preserving a certain level of crime in our society, against the interests of the majority of the citizenry, and that they deny honest people guns for self-defence in pursuit of their anti-social "hidden agenda". Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ho hum. Here we go again. Shooters v. police... Listen IG, I'm sure most of us think you're a perfectly decent bloke - after all, you go hunting, and clearly know a thing or two about ballistics, so you can't be all bad - but you just have to realise that the long-standing, persistent, authoritarian, damn scary anti-gun anti-liberty attitudes of too many police officers simply means that to some extent you're all tarred with the same brush. Unfair, but that's the way it is. When I was a boy I was taught to trust and like the police; these days I don't. I do my best to keep contact with the police to an absolute minimum, and the same goes for a hell of a lot of people I know. Sorry. Anthony Harrison BTW you're no relation to Iggy Pop I suppose? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-cameras and others
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some believe that cameras stop crime, personally I don't. At most it "moves crime on".It will not stop the thug smacking that old man or woman for their pension. It may have helped the police id Hamilton by his clothes, depending on the condition of his head, BUT A CAMERA WOULD NOT HAVE STOPPED HIM I'm flattered and amazed that the above is still around when I wrote it two years ago. Niel, be very concerned, because the people behind the 'camera mentality', are control freaks drunk on, or thirsting for power, power over you and me. They say they care, but in reality they aren't too bothered what happens to you or me, or our wives, or children, they just want to tell us what to do, preferably without question. How do you spot these people? One way, they use cliches like " If you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about." These people have no sense of individuality, no sense of freedom, without control they can see nothing but anarchy, they see themselves as the one thing between order and total insanity, and they will use any nonsense, including the above to justify any and all actions, who is to say that in the future, they wont be jailing or executing people for the common good. The control freaks will say that this view is alarmist nonsense, and that it wont happen here because this is a 'free democracy'. Well the europeans that I work with didn't believe that this country would ever bring in an RIP bill. The question is. Where does it all start? Hitler,Stalin (why do people always forget him?),Pol Pot and others, they didn't appear over night, wave a magic wand and they were there. It seems strange that we 'the free world' go into places to stop tyranical dictatorships before they get going, and ignore what is going on in our own back yards. Those mentioned above would've loved to have the technology that is now being used to 'protect us'. P.S. Can anyone on the list living in Florida, please contact me though my private e-mail. Take Care as always Roger Hardley Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I was a boy I was taught to trust and like the police; these days I don't. I do my best to keep contact with the police to an absolute minimum, and the same goes for a hell of a lot of people I know. Sorry. Dear Ant My point exactly. I am a shooter, and used to think that all shooters were great people. Having worked with licensing for some years, I now realise the amount of unpleasant, potentially dangerous and thoroughly objectionable people that own firearms certificates. Before I hear the howls of protest, let me state that these form about 5% of the total in the area that I work. That 5%, however, colours the remaining 95%. All tarred with the same brush.unfair, but thats the way it is! Frustrating, isn't it? We both know the realities of our respective groups, but are unable to get people to see the wider picture! IG PS..No relation to Adam? -- You don't own a firearm certificate, you hold a firearm certificate, this is what I was told when I attempted to claim compensation for loss of use of the authorities that I had paid for on my firearm certificate when my handguns were confiscated. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] --snip-- ". . . I now realise the amount of unpleasant, potentially dangerous and thoroughly objectionable people that own firearms certificates." Steve, IG, Well, IG, I guess that qualifies you as some kind of psychiatry professional, eh? Just what, I'd like to ask, is your unique qualification to denounce another citizen as being unfit to possess firearms, other than the stated disabilities under your law? And perhaps even more importantly, what are the scientific criteria that you apply? Should make interesting discussions for whatever legislative body is involved to remove ever more citizens from the rolls of 'firearms owner', by employing 'IG's Fiat'. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Liberty: Live it . . . or lose it. =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET -- I have to say if IG is a licensing officer the police need very little in the way of evidence to revoke a certificate, so I find his statement a bit odd. The Acts state that the Chief Officer of Police must be satisfied: "that in all the circumstances the applicant can be permitted to have the firearm or ammunition in his possession without danger to the public safety or to the peace." Which is pretty broad. If IG is aware of dodgy people with certificates then it is fair to say the police haven't done their job properly. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Useful Quote
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The real cause of the American Revolution: "All persons in whose possession any firearms may hereafter be found, will be deemed enemies to his majesty's government." --Gen. Gage Steve, John, For the list, would you mind giving the attribute to that quote, and perhaps a researchable reference? Of late, because many quotes are turning out to be of questionable authenticity, it helps to have a solid source to point others to, and sustain our position. Would do wonders for us here in the 'colonies'. ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-armed police raid wrong house
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] at least you Brits are civil about such errors. here in the colonies, they just leave. No notes, no flowers, nothing. kinda like a real cheap date. Steve, Paul, Paul, you forgot to mention that they might even shoot one of the residents in the process, and then be found entirely innocent of any crime. Like here in Washington a few years ago, where a house was hit with a 'dynamic entry', i.e., a no-knock, rush-in and play cops'n robbers. A woman was bending over an open oven pulling out a hot pan with oven mitts on. The cop said something to the effect (I faintly recall) that it looked like she was reaching for a weapon. Yeah, an assault baking tin. She later died from her wounds. Turns out, they had the wrong residence too. It's rather interesting that when one of theirs is killed in the line of work, they have all kinds of ceremonial hoopla; yet not a thing for the victims, not one bloody thing - not even a recompense to settle the burial affairs. If it _does_ happen, it is because the lawyers were getting paid. I have a very difficult time of keeping a stiff upper lip, when crap like that happens. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Liberty: Live it . . . or lose it. =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET -- But the best one was in New Hampshire I think, where a cop decided the safest place to keep his Glock was in the oven. So one day he forgot the gun was there and turned the oven on. Talk about cook-offs! The other one that was hysterical was the guy in Newark who could not get his car to start because the fuel line was frozen. So genius gets a can of gasoline and puts it on the stove to warm it up and melt the fuel line. Suffice to say that was the last mistake he ever made! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-police show weapons seized from yardies
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This has come out on the same day as a report that racial complaints against the police are at an all time high. If this release was put out to counteract this bit of bad publicity it seems to have worked as it has had far more coverage (at least on radio). Brian T -- I'm convinced the police can't crack the problems in Handsworth because they don't have enough black undercover officers. Steve. Steve, Brian, Without getting into much of a philosophical discussion, allow me this: If the number of things that people normally do were not declared malum prohibitum, then the number of things that cause crime would be of necessity be nonexistent. Ergo, the more 'things' one inveighs against, the more effort that must be expended to counter not only the inveighed against, but also the tactics which are employed: setting traps, making contacts, paying stoolies. doing wiretaps, doing stakeouts, prosecuting the suspects, dealing with delaying tactics, etc. If the government were made to quantify in time and money, the efforts that they expend in pursuing an essentially victimless pastime, and if the number of criminals and criminal substances were totalled as to real value in an otherwise non-criminal venue, I wonder just what the real costs (time, money, and lives) would factor out to be in the artificial (read: Malum Prohibitum) environment of the present? Not having enough members of the darker persuasion, is not a problem in itself, and merely one of perception. From my own experiences here in the US, one is considered to be a turncoat to one's own race when one does work for the establishment that tends to establish one's race as a 'problem'. The are many exceptions, but when the cards fall in the wrong places, those racially identical to the criminals tend to be targets of revenge. Ultimately, false crime produces false criminals, and invites the members of the law enforcement community to become major players, not only for the money but also for the ability to incriminate those whom are seen as adversaries, by using the laws as leverage to inflict pain, instead of mere justice. Corollary: your firearms laws. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws." --Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged" =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ruger M77 Heavy Barrel Rifle
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Both Jonathan and Peter seem to have mixed views on the Ruger. My two penn'orth is that I owned only one, a Ruger 77/Mk2 VBZ varmint job in 22-250, and I too had mixed feelings. It was very well fitted and finished, with a particularly nice stainless barrel - very smooth rifling, better than the Rem 700 VS I had subsequently. I shot it enough to establish that it had great accuracy potential - but the trigger was absolutely dreadful, which made it useless as a varmint rifle. Ruger were unco-operative to the point of obstructiveness when I sought their advice. I could only locate one after-market trigger at the time, something obscure which I got at great expense from Brownells, but it failed to offer significant improvement. Pity - with a decent trigger like the Jewell on my Remington, I'd probably still have that Ruger. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-armed police raid wrong house
From: "Tim Jeffreys", [EMAIL PROTECTED] A Scotland Yard spokesman confirmed that armed officers have raided the couple's house in search of a gunman who was threatening to kill himself. Hmm.. man threatens to kill himself - So the objective of raiding the house with armed people was...? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-6x47mm
From: RustyBullethole, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was going to buy a Free Rifle in .308 or 7.5x55 but now I am wondering whether it is worth waiting to see if something comes out in 6x47. Steve. Are you going for gold Steve ? - tell us more. Rusty -- I just want something decent for 300m. I assume 6x47 is favoured over 6mm PPC because 6x47 has more going for it at 300m as they were both originally designed for benchrest. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Browning HP durabilty
From: SADW, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was interested in the Tony Jeeves comemt about 20-25k rounds through a 9mm Browning without breakage. Though one would expect that from the older military versions (like the Enfields), when special forces switched to commercial versions I believe longevity was much reduced. Ironically (for SIG denigrators) what they replaced them with were P226 and P228 models, though this may have been more to do with ease of maintenance than durability. I'm not sure the DA triggers would have been a guiding factor. SIG slides have radically improved in durability over the years as a result of increasingly demanding US police specifications...which were behind the switch to a solid cast slide for some models. Nick Steadman -- I had all kinds of problems with my Hi-Power, but then it was Argentinian! The problem with SIG slides is that they rust, so they went to stainless steel. Also the breech block pin can break but by and large I prefer the old sheet steel slide as the gun is top heavy with the stainless slide (unless you have the stainless frame as well). NYPD stopped authorising P226s because of the rust problem. I sent my P226 to Robar and had RoGuard put on it. I had a P228 with NP3 on it. I've also had SIG-Sauers chromed in the past but you have to be careful because chrome is so hard it can wear out the frame prematurely and ruin slide to frame fit. SIG finally solved the problems with their new finish called Nitron, plus the SIG Pro has a plastic frame now so this gives more latitude in slide finishes. However the trigger pull is worse than the older SIG-Sauers, and I cannot get the hang of the slide release on the SIG Pro which gets in the way of my thumb. I have a P226 SL Sport II now in a friendly foreign locale, and that is a damn nice gun! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-armed police raid wrong house
From: Paul Bartomioli, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at least you Brits are civil about such errors. here in the colonies, they just leave. No notes, no flowers, nothing. kinda like a real cheap date. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
