CS: Misc-More laws = more criminals
From: "Ron Rosenfeld", [EMAIL PROTECTED] IG is quite right when he says that more laws means more offenders. There is nothing new in that viewpoint. Here is a philosophers view on the subject (hope you like it) "Ages ago there was a great king, and he was wise. And he desired to lay laws unto his subjects. "He called upon one thousand wise men of one thousand different tribes to come to his capital and lay down the laws. And all this came to pass. "But when the thousand laws written upon the parchment were put before the king and he read them, he wept bitterly in his soul, for he had not known that there were one thousand forms of crime in in his kingdom. "Then he called his scribe, and with a smile upon his mouth he himself dictated the laws. And his laws were but seven. And the one thousand wise men left him in anger and returned to their tribes with the laws they had laid down. And every tribe followed the laws of its wise men. Therefore they have a thousand laws even to our own day. "It is a great country, but it has one thousand prisons, and the prisons are full of women and me, breakers of a thousand laws. It is indeed a great country, but the people therof are descendants of one thousand law-givers and of only one wise king." By Kahlil Gibran (from The Wanderer published 1932) (coming soon The Four Frogs - why people cannot compromise) Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Stop or I'll chant!
From: Mike Taylor, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our right to self defence has not descended anywhere. I repeat...ad nauseumyou all have a right to self defence!!! It just so happens that firearms are not available for self defence. If a firearm had been used in this case, then, provided it was legally held for say, clay shooting, then no jury in a million years would convict someone using it. Don't delude yourself. The law only restricts self defence as being a good reason for possession. IG -- That juries will almost always acquit in these circumstances may be true. Which raises the question of why the prosecution is brought in the first place. How do the prosecuting authorities decide? Prior to the trial the licensing department will have revoked the certificate for any legally held gun. After the acquittal, which implies that no crime has been committed, will they reissue the certificate without any fuss? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-drugs
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Are you implying that we have a law regulating the MISUSE of drugs? Then again it could be used to justify another totally ineffective law; "The law works because people only break it legally". If the laws prohibiting certain types of drugs, their possession and use work so well would you mind telling me why we pay Keith Halliwell (I think that is his name) the "drugs tzar" to do?"" ---88--- It's: "Hellawell", and what does he do? Well, in essence he is a puppet who spouts whatever he is told to spout, mostly! I've had friends use recreational drugs in the past, and I can tell you that this is a prime example of prohibition causing more problems than it ever solves. The people I knew who preferred a joint at home to a few pints down the local were forced to be in regular touch with the most unsavoury characters imaginable just to get hold of some 'weed'. (You could argue that they don't need it, but they would argue that you don't need beer. And, vastly fewer people die through abusing dope than alcohol, or even guns in the UK.) Inevitably, the dealers managed to convert some of them onto more dangerous and vastly more profitable drugs through offering first time, cheap deals. I had a friend, now living in London who I've heard spends most of his time high on crack cocaine because of this. It truly is a tradgedy and is simply not being helped by the entrenched views of the establishment. Another ex-aquaintance commenting on the ease of getting some 'gear' after a series of massive drugs raids and numerous arrests in our smallish community: "HAHAHA, it's just a drop in the ocean!" Anyone care to draw some parallels? Oh, perhaps most interesting is that knowing my preferences for alcohol, and the fact that I'm subject to possible work related random testing, I never had anyone even try to persuade me to give it a go! Offer, perhaps but no peruasion. But then, I suppose I never had cause to be in the company of the 'dealers'. The following letter is quite interesting: International Organised Crime Inc. Everywhere, Sitting Pretty, The World Date as postmark An open letter to all Prohibitionists We are writing to thank you for supporting the prohibition of illegal drugs. It is your unflagging support for prohibition that enabled us to make more than ú300 000 million (nearly ú1bn a day) last year, the second largest commodity trade on the planet. Your "No to drugs" is a resounding "Yes!" to our success. We couldnÆt have done it without you. Thank you! Your policy of "not giving out the wrong message to young people" leaves us free to give out drugs to those self same youngsters. Thank you! Prohibition of this world-wide demand-led market provides us with the firm foundation we need to operate oligopolies that mean we can charge whatever price we want. Because of international prohibition the illegal drugs market is ours. Under this system there are NO RULES. Violence is our watchword. We will do anything that we have to in order to protect our business interests. We pay no tax and because of the lack of regulation of the market we can even sell drugs to children without compunction. We make so much money that we can buy anyone we want, so oiling the wheels of international commerce. Alcohol prohibition in the US provided us with the market to set ourselves up and drugs prohibition has enabled us to consolidate our position and vastly increase our wealth and empire. We urge you to bring in more anti-drugs legislation and to prosecute the war on drugs to its fullest. The more the market is pushed underground the greater the vacuum becomes, into which we will move. We thank you again for all your support and we urge you to continue to fight the drugs war with everything you have. You have our full support. Yours gratefully International Organised Crime Inc. -- I totally agree with you John, there are so many people in Walsall who have gotten onto heroin the way you describe that it is exceptionally hard for anyone to convince me that marijuana and ecstacy should remain illegal. Getting someone onto heroin is quite hard, because there is a psychological barrier, but when Joe Drug Dealer can say to them, "Well, this is like the draw you buy from me, only better" there is much more chance of people trying heroin. If you had to make the jump from simply buying marijuana at the local shop to hunting down heroin dealers on council estates it would be much less likely people would use it. Also clearing out the jails of people convicted of growing marijuana would make space to keep the smack dealers in for much longer periods of time. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-law-abiding?
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whatever happened to the idea of innocent until proven guilty? Puzzled a bit by this one. Who said anything about innocent or gulity? Semantics is not a favourite subject, but here we go. Is a law abiding person one who commits offences without being caught, or one who doesnt commit offences at all? A person knows in their own minds that they are committing offences (like, say, Robert Elmer Kleasen and his li'l old bench saw) is innocent util convicted. NP there. But are they law abiding? Hmmm. I dont personally think they are! They would come to me before they went to their trainer! Dogs are a good judge of character. My terrier would rather chase rats than come to me. So I agree, they are good judges. Hope these drugs dogs didn't cock their legs on you tho! In my book, if you ain't under arrest, or being pursued, they you is as legal as legal can be. And no man has any authority to cast doubt upon you without reason. Hold on. In the states, does every arrest lead to a conviction Yippee. I'm on the way!! IG Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended reading
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kenneth, an excellent list, most of which I have not read but ought to sometime. You mention John Masters's "Bugles And A Tiger", eminently readable autobiography by a man who changed his life post-war, left the regular army, and became a novelist living in the USA. Allow me to recommend the next volume, which continues his military story into and through WW2: "The Road Past Mandalay", equally readable. If anyone can provide a copy of the third and last of his trilogy I would be very grateful: it's "Pilgrim Son: A Personal Odyssey" (Michael Joseph 1971). I've tried and failed to get a copy of the McBride book, ditto another volume you don't mention, "With British Snipers To The Third Reich" by Capt. C.Shore. Two volumes of WW2 fighter pilot stuff were written long after the period by P.B."Laddie" Lucas - reputed to be good, and I want them! My only quibble is that you say O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin novels "rival" Hornblower, but in all honesty Kenneth they outstrip C.S.Forester in every way, tremendously impressive stories of the Napoleonic period. Thanks for the list. Anthony Harrison -- I've mentioned this before, but a really good book is "Marine Sniper" by Charles Henderson, and it's still in print and you can still get it easily! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Within 1000 yards of my office there has been one murder, two attempted murders (one of whom was a WPC), one armed robbery, at least two shootings and more assaults that I care to mention. Within a mile there was a smack dealer who was ambushed by two guys with sawn-off shotguns and murdered only a few months ago. Is that all? A quiet sleep little village by comparison to where I work. Why, only yesterday there was an elderly woman parked on a double yellow line. Mind you, she did have a disabled badge on her windscreen. 4 of us held her up with CS, then gave her a ticket EACH. That was loads of points for us on our performance indicator charts. Because she had a badge, she will plead not guilty and go to court. When we have to attend, it will be EXTRA points on our appraisals! Thats a whole months worth of armed robbers! Anyone familiar with the forms we give out to people who we search? Under PACE? There is a box titled 'reason for search'. Common reason put down by disgruntled cops is ''P.I." P.I.= Performance Indicator. In other words, a mark on the league table that keeps the boss off your back. IG of Dock Green Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Shooters' Web
From: Neil Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shooters' Web is now set up so that you can log in and register/edit your club's details yourself. As an existing registered club, you have been issued with a username and password as follows: Looks good. However. As the site says it is supported by the organizations listed and you exist only in virtual web space I would have thought 'support' here means link to. I looked and can't find links from: NRA SA (SAGBNI) Cybershooters (Wot?) UKPSA Do they need reminding? - Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Why not to buy presents from Toys R Us this year
Old, but worth reminding you all of it: http://www.nypostonline.com/business/6190.htm POLITICIANS JOIN NRA SHOWDOWN By PAUL THARP - Politicians are rallying around Toys "R" Us and luxury purveyor LVMH for taking a stand against the National Rifle Association in a Times Square showdown over a shooting gallery there. The two companies are refusing to sign leases in the glitzy new "Bow Tie" building if the NRA also moves in with its gun-themed showcase. After The Post broke the story of their standoff yesterday, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and two Congress members, Rep. Nita Lowey (D-Westchester) and Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-Manhattan), hailed the firms' "principled stand." "You are doing the right thing," the politicians said in a joint letter to the heads of the two giant retailers. "We believe there is no place in the new Times Square for the NRA." Sources have told The Post that Toys "R" Us and LVMH are refusing to sign leases in 1530 Broadway unless they get assurances from the NRA and its president, actor Charlton Heston, that the NRA won't build a theme restaurant and shooting gallery there. Toys "R" Us plans to take 45,000 square feet of space, and LVMH plans about half that amount for one of its Sephora cosmetics supermarkets. The NRA has been considering 70,000 square feet for an NRA Sports Blast eatery-entertainment center. The politicians' letter added: "If the NRA opens in Times Square, they will be sending an unmistakably dangerous message to visitors that guns are a cause for celebration." Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended movies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeff, "Handgun" is an odd film - in colour BTW, not black white - because it was made by a Brit director whose name (infuriatingly) escapes me but who is distinctly on the "respectable liberal art-film" side of the fence as opposed to mass-market Hollywood. It is suggested that it was intended or thought to be an attack on US "gun culture", but because any such message is difficult to discern it has always proved amusingly difficult for lefty film reviewers in The Guardian and elsewhere to categorise! Not a bad film I think, though not wildly entertaining. Anthony Harrison -- Well, my mother saw it one night and insisted that I take her pistol shooting at the first opportunity! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-law-abiding?
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What constitutes law abiding? Someone never convicted or someone never caught? "E.J. Totty" Your comment above, IG, either demonstrates your mind set, or the manner in which UK cops think of their fellow citizens. In my book, if you ain't under arrest, or being pursued, they you is as legal as legal can be. And no man has any authority to cast doubt upon you without reason. IG, Quite so, the presumption of innocence is the fundamental common law right; "The right which every man has to his character, the value of that character to himself and his family, and the evil consequences that would result to society if charges of guilt were lightly entertained, or readily established in Courts of justice:- these are the real considerations which have led to the adoption of the rule that all imputations of crime must be strictly proved." "Taylor Upon Evidence". "Throughout the web of the English criminal law one golden thread is always to be seen, that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt...No matter what the charge or where the trial, the principle that the prosecution must prove the guilt of the prisoner is part of the common law of England and no attempt to whittle it down can be entertained." Stones Justice's Manual. Preface to 1990 Edition. You do know that don't you? Regards, John Hurst. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Bird shooting in EU - info wanted
From: "Lars", [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Sweden all birds of prey are protected. A few animals which are not part of the original swedish fauna (, rats and other pests can be hunted all year round. The hunting seasons for the rest of the animals are regulated. Have a look at the following link to the Swedish Association for Hunting and Wildlife Management. http://www.jagareforbundet.se/englishhuntinginsweden/default.asp Lars Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-The Gun Control Network
From: "Jeff Wood", [EMAIL PROTECTED] A recent posting quoted GCN as refusing to expand their membership from the present alleged 6 for fear of entryism. Yet they are represented on the FCC, presumably on behalf of the public. This seems to be taking the concept of the Silent Majority a bit far. Next time you're pestering your MP, point out that your club has a membership a multiple of that of GCN. Yours sincerely Jeff Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Public PGP Key at: ldap://certserver.pgp.com -- I've already done this and got the expected useless response from the HO. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Stop or I'll chant!
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What weapon do you think would have been effective in this case? A firearm? A baseball bat? CS or pepper spray? A cattle prod? A plastic shield such as the police use? A clothes prop? A rottweiler? Our right to self defence has not descended anywhere. I repeat...ad nauseumyou all have a right to self defence!!! It just so happens that firearms are not available for self defence. If a firearm had been used in this case, then, provided it was legally held for say, clay shooting, then no jury in a million years would convict someone using it. Don't delude yourself. The law only restricts self defence as being a good reason for possession. Since you ask I would like the opportunity to carry either a CS spray or stun gun and could detail at least two occasions within the last three months when I would have been justified in using them if it were a legal option. There is however no legally acceptable reason for owning either of these so the explanation you offer in your last paragraph would not apply. We appear to be left in the situation where you can claim to have used either a firearm or knife that had been held for entirely legal reasons, but would quite likely prove fatal, whilst being unable to claim any reason to own something that would just bring any assailant up short and allow you to escape. I don't see the objection to CS spray as we have it from the mouths of police spokespeople that these are used purely for defence. With regard to all the previous discussion on the list of the if's, but's and maybe's of aquiring a pistol legally for self defence is there any legal avenue for applying for ownership of either of these options because I can't think of one. Brian T -- Bear in mind that CS spray and stun guns are classified as firearms under Section 5(1)(b) of the Firearms Act 1968! How the courts ever came up with that is beyond me. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: "IG", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What? Are you implying that we have a law regulating the MISUSE of drugs? etc Oh God. Read the whole of that post please. The reason for mentioning that list of laws was to illustrate that there are more laws to break nowadays, therefore crime figures are bound to be higher. How on earth even you can turn that around is quite fascinating but boring.. IG Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-hypocrite
From: "Nicholas Jones", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The worst actor-hypocrite is surely Sean Connery - glamorising the use of guns as James Bond, then doing voice-overs for the 'ban the guns' feature post-Dunblane. The fact that he fervently supports the SNP whilst spending as little time as possible in Scotland is another reason. Nik Jones Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Web Site of interest
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not hounding you, IG, but when you say, Total freedom of firearms means that people like this would be free to have firearms. you miss the point, which is that he WAS armed, and from what we know about him he would have been armed without regard to the law - as are a great many of the criminal classes. Laws only affect the law-abiding, etc - how many times does this basic point have to be repeated? And when you write, It is a sad but inescapable fact that the degree of responsibility and common sense exercised by the average person is somewhat lacking, I have to say this is one of the worst statements you've uttered: it's a recipe for a police state. The thugs and yobboes you describe are a small minority, and if a proportion of decent people were armed, I suggest that public violence of this kind would diminish drastically. In the USA, which you seem to deride, gun crime is located disproportionately in a few big cities, and public brawling between sport fans is much less common than it is here. The average person, here or in the USA, is decent, responsible, and certainly capable of owning guns wihtout running amok. Maybe your opinions are tainted by contact with too many criminal low-life types. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Met. police firearms pages
From: "jim.craig", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I forward this page sent to me by a fellow airgun enthusiast In Scotland and having read the Air Weapons section of the site I agree with his comments and have mailed the site author to say so. Others may find other sections of the site of interest. Hi Jim, Some time ago I happened across the Met.s firearm enquiry teams web pages. I was refreshingly surprised by helpful attitude displayed and the open advice of the content. Stark contrast to what we have come to expect. At the time the site solely concerned itself with firearms and shotguns. Having been so impressed by this attempt to lay down the law as it is written and not how certain factions would prefer it to be written, I took the opportunity to do some "bridge building". I wrote to the Mick Wheeler, the web sites author, and congratulated him on producing such a useful and unbiased source of information. I told him that what we really could do with was a similar approach taken on the subject of airguns and asked if he would consider adding such information to the site. He wrote back thanking me for my comments but told me that the sites primary purpose was to assist the public to understand the "ins and outs" of the licencing system and he felt that airguns fell outside that remit. I wrote back and asked him to reconsider as I felt he had produced a very concise guide for the benefit of shooters nationwide and that much of the information contained therein already went beyond that remit. I suggested that to leave out airguns not only would leave his work "incomplete", but would also represent a missed opportunity. Imagine my surprise when I received an E-mail from him today reminding me of our past contact and asking me to check out his revamped web site for comment. Jim, you have got to check this out... there is light at the end of the tunnel. www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/index.html If this link doesn't get you there, go to the Mets website, click on the index page, click on "F" then on firearms enquiries. A word of warning... the Mets site is extensive and I guarantee you won't be able to resist the temptation to have a good snoop! Have a good look round and tell me/him what you think, especially about the new airgun section. I think you will agree this chap deserves our gratitude. Such an enlightened attitude deserves support and promotion. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Thoughts on revocation of independence
From: "George", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like to think this would be taken in the manner intended...:-) No I don't think so! We don't want Tony Blair. We have Bill Clinton. I understand there isn't much of a difference. I believe both countries will be better off when they leave office. If we want a minister we can go to church. You are right about casting British actors as villains. I watched The Patriot Wednesday night and they set a new standard for "British villain" The difference between American Football and what you call Football is that the violence is on the field in U.S. Football. American football players are armored so the don't get badly injured. It doesn't always help. Are Rugby players as big as American Football players? In regard to British automobiles my experience has been that any thing I can afford to drive isn't worth driving. German cars are nice; but the problem is the same. While we are on the topic of autos learn to drive on the proper side of the road. BTW the Queen impressed me when she wrung that pheasants neck. God save the Queen! George in Las Vegas -- You will find that more countries (certainly in terms of population) drive on the left than on the right, India, China, Japan etc. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended movies
From: "Mike Burns", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The film is also known as "Deep in the Heart" (1983) - go to www.imdb.com and search for "handgun" and it'll pull it up for you. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-HO says armed foot patrols are not allowed
From: "Charles Parker", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Warning over use of firearms by STUART MULRANEY (Police Review 17 Nov 2000) HOME OFFICE Minister, Charles Clarke, has warned against the use of firearms by routine foot patrols. He told Police Review: 'There are ACPO guidelines on the use of firearms and these guidelines say arms are only to be used in targeted policing situations'. Mr Clarke's comments came in response to questions regarding the use of firearms by a specialist patrol in central Nottingham, as reported recently in Police Review. However, he said Nottinghamshire Constabulary's move was in accordance with the guidelines because the patrol was a special operation which involved 'the particular use of arms in particular circumstances'. Mr Clarke said the issue and use of firearms is an operational decision for chief officers working within the guidance issued by ACPO. But he added that ACPO guidelines cannot be made public because the information contained in them would be of use to armed criminals. Simon Hughes MP, the Liberal Democrat's chief spokesperson on home affairs, had earlier called on Mr Clarke to make a statement on the deployment of armed police officers on foot patrols and what assessments have been made by the Home Office into the effectiveness of armed patrols. In a written answer to Mr Hughes, Mr Clarke said ACPO guidance 'does not permit the use of armed officers on routine foot patrols' and that, as such, no assessment has been made of their effectiveness. Mr Clarke also made it clear in his written answer that firearms operations do not require the agreement of police authorities. Police Review reported on October 13 that specialist armed officers are now patrolling the streets of Nottingham as part of a bid to deal with a series of driveby shootings. Nottingham Constabulary said the operation, codenamed Real Estate, has reduced the number of shootings in the city. Prior to the operation, there were five shootings in two weeks, but in the nine months since the operation began, there have been just 10 such incidents, according to the force. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Pellet pistols in Canada
From: Thomas A Chandler, [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Chris Gelowitz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "cfchat" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: [chat] Here's what to do Here is what I've been sending to everyone I know. It would be great if everyone else did the same: Just cut and paste everything below the dashes. Send it to your local newspaper, your friends, anyone and everyone. I thought you might like to know about this. This is not a small story. It will directly affect many people you know, and could even affect you if you or your kids have a pellet gun. Basically, millions of people with airguns are going to become criminals because a new LazerHawk lightweight pellet allows many popular airguns to shoot over 500 fps, even though the muzzle energy of the gun has not increased with the new pellet (ie. the pellet gun is no more powerful with the new pellet than with the old one). They've even deemed the Crosman .357 a prohibited weapon, which is probably one of the most popular airguns! They are for sale right now at Canadian Tire, Wal-mart, and thousands of stores across Canada. These stores don't know that the government has deemed that they are illegally selling prohibited weapons, and the government hasn't told them! The government is trying to keep this a secret because of the feared backlash that would happen from millions of airgun owners and retailers if they learned they are going to be criminals (yes, criminals) in just over 1 month because they don't have a Firearms Licence for their pellet guns. Here is the official story: --- "The Canadian Firearms Centre continues to play politics with Canadians," charges Jim Hinter. "RCMP sources confirm that they can not remove air guns placed on the Firearms Reference Tables," states Jim Hinter, National President of Canada' s 120,000 Member strong National Firearms Association. "The National Firearms Association has discovered that an estimated one million Canadian air gun owners now must be in possession of a firearms licence by 01 January 2001, or face criminal charges," Hinter stated. "On November 17th, the National Firearms Association reported there really is a "Hidden Agenda" going on during this election campaign." stated Hinter. "Despite claims from the Canadian Firearms Centre, we are being proven right" said Hinter. "RCMP sources also confirmed that there has been "no change in policy" because they are following existing policy and legislation regarding the current definition of a firearm," states Hinter. "Rather than ensure Canadians who own air guns are made aware of the reclassification of many popular airguns into firearms, the Canadian Firearms Centre is still trying to keep this secret," Hinter continued. "Earlier this week, spokespersons from the Canadian Firearms Centre told Canadians that there "had been no change in policy" regarding air guns," Hinter said. "Our sources in the RCMP confirm that all the airguns we reported as now classed as firearms are still on the Firearm Reference Tables (FRT)," Hinter said. "Not only that, but the RCMP has reported to the NFA that an additional fifteen more airguns have been added," Hinter continued. "The Canadian Firearms Centre is already hopelessly behind in trying to issue licences to Canadians", stated Hinter. "Now they are ensuring that at least one million Canadians will become criminals on New Years Day 2001 by keeping this secret," "That is not the New Years message a government should sent to Canadian citizens," concluded Hinter. -30- Air Gun Background The RCMP confirmed that all 13 firearms listed in the NFA News Release of November 17, 2000 are still on the FRT. RCMP HAVE LISTED 28 AIRGUNS AS FIREARMS ON FIREARMS REFERENCE TABLE (FRT) November 23, 2000 - Today the RCMP provided us with the newest list of 15 airguns the Canadian Firearm Registry has changed from non-firearms to firearms on their Firearms Reference Tables (FRT): Umarex Walther cp88 Prohibited Firearm - FRT# 40081-1 Gamo r77 Prohibited Firearm - FRT# 47973-3 Daisy model 131 Powerline Restricted Firearm - FRT# 79531-1 Benj Sheridan Silver Streak 177 Restricted Firearm- FRT# 63222-3 Crosman 1740 Restricted Firearm - FRT# 89275-1 Umarex Walther ppk Restricted Firearm - FRT# 40082-2 Umarex Colt 1911 Restricted Firearm - FRT#47505-3 Gamo r77-6 Restricted Firearm - FRT# 47973-1 Gamo 45 auto Restricted Firearm - FRT# 47966-2 Benj. Sheridan Blue Streak 177 Non-Restricted Firearm- FRT# 41279-2 Savage 560f FRT# 33149-1 Crosman Challenge 2000 FRT# 72353-1 Crosman mod 66 pwst FRT# 41792-1 Crosman 2260 FRT# 46765-1 Gamo p23 FRT# 4427-2 November 17, 2000 - Original list of 13 airguns the Canadian Firearm Registry has changed from non-firearms to firearms on RCMP's Firearms Reference
CS: Misc-drunk driving
From: nick royall, [EMAIL PROTECTED] My point about the DD and road checks is that the CC of Essex boasts about how many random checks they do in the run up to christmas. There are not supposed to be random stops, you are only supposed to be stopped when you have done something to warrant the attention. Now, since Essex constabulary seem to be the keenest on this having just started this years campaign perhaps they should publicise the result as an average of motorists stopped versus those over the limit. The last time such things were done they ended up doing the most stops for the least number of drivers over the limit and christmas is the time when the least offences are now committed. It may be fear that is causing this method to work or perhaps, over the years people have become better educated in their responsibilities to others and themselves. It certainly doesnt do any favours to the thousands stopped for no reason and will little or nothing in law to allow it. I do not condone driving whilst intoxicated and would like to see drunk drivers charged with at least manslaughter when causing a fatality rather than careless/dangerous etc since they have made a decision to act in a way that they know is reckless. If it was any other implement rather than a car it would be probably a murder charge but the world is in love with the car so different rules apply. In my ideal society the guilty are punished when proven guilty based on solid evidence and information. The majority should not be held in suspicion as many new laws allow, that is a Thatcherite thing with more to do with control than curbing crime. As for your comment about road kill, I am a fully trained front line ambulance attendant with the red cross and have seen more than my fair share. Today is also the 12th anniversary of the death of my daughter, killed by a motorist driving on to a pavement. Nick Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
