Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, Jodi Hoffman wrote: AIDS/HIV: $39,172.00 Diabetes: $ 5,449.00 Cancer: $ 3,776.00 Heart Disease: $ 1,056.00 Stroke: $ 765.00 What's wrong with this picture? You don't get cancer by engaging in promiscuous sex. Nope. You get it by smoking. You likely get diabetes by leading an unhealthy life - overweight is a primary factor. The same goes for cardiovascular conditions as well. 'Advocate taxing girth? Sampo Syreeni [EMAIL PROTECTED], aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university
Re: Amex supports CARNIVORE enabled Anonymity System
A Yahoo wrote: %What a load of shit. If you check that URL the next %thing you see the following release: % %http://www.privada.net/news/releases/2717.html %# %#Privada's Technology Protects Users' Privacy, Only %#Monitors Those Who Abuse It %#[snip] % %Obviously AMEX Privada don't have a clue as to the %history of privacy and privacy tools... % %What about civil john doe complaints? %What about Church of $cientology and Penet.fi? %What about the entire key escrow debate? %What about the entire clipper debate? % %If anyone really things that 'identity escrow' enabled %privacy products are what the market is looking for, %they are seriously clueless. % %This is obviously snake oil. No, the emphasis is on what consumers in general want. And it delivers. Those wishing to push the edge of free speech aren't going to be satisfied, but the new services meet the needs of regular consumers/people accessing the Internet. That market dwarfs what ZKS/Anonymizer will ever get. Even the Anonymizer shut down its free version due to abuse. And Yahoo has cooperated with civil subpeonas regarding stock touting / company disparagement. Yet you use it. It's free and does what you need. AmEx is offering their services for free for cardholders. ZKS isn't exactly mixmaster WWW surfing, at some point there will be traceability, given the necessary court order. Albeit ZKS seems to be the best at what it does. Too bad the cardholders aren't setting up for you to choose your privacy provider, like cable is being pressured to allow choice of ISP.
Re: Amex supports CARNIVORE enabled Anonymity System
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- At 1:59 PM -0400 on 9/18/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A Yahoo wrote [about AMEX's "anonymous" credit card technology]: % What a load of shit. That market dwarfs what ZKS/Anonymizer will ever get. Again, boys and girls, barring unforeseen events, like repeals in the laws of physics, and/or human behavior, :-), the *only* thing that matters in financial operations is transaction cost, and certainly *not* financial privacy. The *only* way to get ubiquitous financial anonymity is for a technology, like internet bearer transaction protocols (blind signatures, MicroMint, small signed coins, whatever), to be *cheaper* than the alternative, which, for the moment, is internet-executed and proprietary network-settled book entry transactions: credit cards under SSL, cleared by VISA and MasterCard, settled by FedWire and/or SWIFT, modulo the odd ACH "check" transaction, bla, bla, bla... Book-entry transactions can *not* be anonymous, folks, because, of course, you couldn't send someone to *jail* if they lie about a book-entry, otherwise, right? I mean, if everyone could lie about a given book-entry transaction, and get away with it consistently, *without* going to jail, could you imagine that *any* book-entry transaction of that type would clear, much less settle, ever again? I thought not... Unlike internet bearer financial cryptography protocols, the non-repudiation "technology" of book-entry settlement is non-existent. Unless you count ballistic technology, anyway. :-). More to the point, a given inherently-private technology, like Chaum's blind signatures for instance, must be *waaay* cheaper, on a risk adjusted basis, ceteris paribus, whatever, than a public one, like SSL-encrypted book-entries. Like a thousand times cheaper, say. Which is, oddly enough, about the cost differential right now between book-entry transactions (like stock and bond trades going through DTC or CREST, or credit cards, or checks) and physical delivery of paper/metal bearer instruments (like "my Brinks to your Cage" delivery versus payment, or dollar bills, or coins or stamps). So, until people actually *do* get bearer financial cryptography protocols onto the net, and cheap enough (and believe me, people are working on it :-)), it is important to remember that *any* book-entry transaction is, almost by definition, a "public" transaction and not a private one. A "public" transaction "guaranteed" to be "fair" by a *government*, at the point of a gun. So, you shouldn't be surprised at all when, horrors, there's *no* financial privacy in the "mainstream" markets. None in the least. Moreover, that diminishing financial privacy will, um, increase, as Moore's law increases that cost-differential between automated book-entry, and its only current extant competition, which is, at the moment, *not* internet bearer transactions, but, in fact, *paper* bearer transactions. Paper bearer transactions which, if you'll notice, *nobody* wants to do anymore. :-). Contrawise, you should assume that almost *anyone* who offers you a "private" book-entry transaction is, for lack of a better word, lying, frankly -- okay, "marketing" :-) -- *especially* if they're promising to do it over the net(1). Hence the "safeguards" in just about everyone's "privacy" products, which amount to no privacy at all. Cheers, RAH (1) Okay, I *might* :-) excuse Mondex from this rule, I suppose, but only because the smart-cards themselves are physically swappable, and thus at the physical, card-to-card level, anyway, are bearer instruments, but I would only say so under a regime in which those cards *contents*, the balances therein, are exchangeable for, or better, denominated, in some *other* internet bearer instrument like Chaumian cash, which may, I'm afraid, defeat the economics of Mondex altogether. Obviously, Doug Barnes has pointed this out more than once or twice here and elsewhere. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBOcZylcUCGwxmWcHhAQFr2gf8DRr6R94+2u4swcn8eyrkwCq34tyfDtqn houDyMHBuoyqXjlsv1LguSWIIF6dvD7c/QkMH1/OSJ+mM3s/g52DOMF1EvxHLzMo qJ/WYO90MQb8+lFZF+ebTiGZ5mFGzYX1xMWWpgCzuJrjACe1ZfUuFd1/mCUM5Irl FM6+NQS4396lsQ1wGi/FSflDejs1ejE2ou2so9ryCwq4flXjLoImsiAiuMZpA7py ptE6JlsGQL8nKga3EVmQeejedHZqKyt40GxO9CcGf0/rHRrYw3abmzc/SANxa+XA ysi4zwQAguPoxRdo912rff0IXu68t1atNpXMT8Mhrr9MC/EWmf2iYg== =Y6Tg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Amex supports CARNIVORE enabled Anonymity System
(1) Okay, I *might* :-) excuse Mondex from this rule, I suppose, but only because the smart-cards themselves are physically swappable, and thus at the physical, card-to-card level, anyway, are bearer instruments, but I would only say so under a regime in which those cards *contents*, the balances therein, are exchangeable for, or better, denominated, in some *other* internet bearer instrument like Chaumian cash, which may, I'm afraid, defeat the economics of Mondex altogether. Obviously, Doug Barnes has pointed this out more than once or twice here and elsewhere. The indirect problem with Mondex is that while the card-to-card level transactions are theoretically less traceable than a typical online validation, they (the cards themselves) still store at least 10 previous transaction records including full card id. Additionally, every programmer of Mondex interface devices and terminals (including myself, at one time) gets ordered by at least one involved party (the bank, the terminal manufacturer, the terminal financier, ect.) to include full audit trail generation from card-chip and any downloaded card-card transaction histories for uploading as part of nightly settlement. (Which is why I stopped supporting Mondex...) This defeats the otherwise good anonymity possible with Mondex.
would it be so much to ask..
That the list be changed so that unregistered email addresses cannot send messages to it? This spam is getting ridiculous. ---signature file--- PGP Key Fingerprint: 446B 7718 B219 9F1E 43DD 8E4A 6BE9 D739 CCC5 7FD7 "I don't think [Linux] will be very successful in the long run." "My experience and some of my friends' experience is that Linux is quite unreliable. Microsoft is really unreliable but Linux is worse." -Ken Thompson, Interview May 1999. http://www.freebsd.org FreeBSD - The Power to Serve http://www.rfnj.org Radio Free New Jersey - 395 streams - 96kbps @ 44.1khz
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
If we are playing that game, I have 5000+ volumes here. All 5000 of them AND my gorilla say that you are full of it. That's "Orangutang". No, Helena was in a different room at the time. It was most certainly the Gorilla (and it is hard to make a mistake on such matters). I can send photos if you like. Phill
Re: Amex supports CARNIVORE enabled Anonymity System
At 9:39 PM -0400 on 9/18/00, R. A. Hettinga wrote: Someday, of course, you won't need the fiat bit, but pure commodities aren't the end-state. You probably need a mix of stuff, including financial proxies like debt and equity indices, and so on. But the core problem is measuring inflation. Fortunately, :-), Paul Harrison and I have this giant rant in the can about non-state bearer synthetic numeraires, using things like digital bearer warehouse receipts for the hard stuff, a proxy for the CPI... By the way, the above isn't necessarily the end state, either. A lot of people, probably me among them, subscribe to the theory advanced by Eugene Fama (Efficient Market Hypothesis) and Fisher Black (Black-Scholes option pricing formula) that if switching out of the numeraire is cheap enough (insert Moore's Law here), it's probably better to keep and price transactions in *appreciating* assets instead of assets which don't earn a return. Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 00:08 -0400 9/19/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Betweens teenagers and adults?! You must have been perusing a NAMBLA website from another world. I'm sorry but you seem to be the one in another world. Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. -- Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#23758827 ___ "As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." -- Justice William O. Douglas
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Kevin Elliott wrote: At 00:08 -0400 9/19/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Betweens teenagers and adults?! You must have been perusing a NAMBLA website from another world. I'm sorry but you seem to be the one in another world. Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. -- Sorry. I was referring to my copies. -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Kevin Elliott wrote: At 00:08 -0400 9/19/00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Betweens teenagers and adults?! You must have been perusing a NAMBLA website from another world. I'm sorry but you seem to be the one in another world. Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. On second thought, I just checked out the stupid website you mentioned. At http://www.nambla.de/topics.htm (one of the webpages which offers books for sale). The cover of one of those books shows a very young boy. There is no possible way that child is a teenager. You're wrong. -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Kevin Elliott wrote: Read the stupid website if you don't believe me www.nambla.de. Here's a little something else I picked up from the same stupid website (you know...the one you say only promotes sex between teenagers and adults...) be boys with names like Jimmy Joey ~ let's say one of them is almost eight, raggedy-kneed blue- jeans an old slouch tweed cap, hair eyes both the same soft Venetian brown, body svelte as a Caravaggio urchin-cherub ~ and the other ten--a-half, huge slightly crazy green eyes, world record eyelashes, hair the color of Lindisfarne-gospel goldleaf ~ wild enthusiasts, boastful liars, agents of chaos, cuddle-monsters, extortionists of toys favors, fancy-dancers, dirty jokesters, natural-born exiles from the Mundus Imaginalis ~ right! there must be millions like them in these frozen flatlands, millions of secret epiphanies in thousands of icy boxy little houses at every point of the night-whistle-echoing nation ~ but imagine just this once instead of staying on the Wabash Cannonball or whatever Zephyr you disembark just here now finally penetrate the mystery of these lost-town boys who might have waited unknowingly forever for someone to notice their beauty, might have grown old and heavy, square dull without ever communicating their dirty-sweet fragrance sheer unreasoning joy to a single poet ~ but this time you finally get off the train in this godforsaken grain-embargoed cowburg ~ and thanks to the whim of some nearly defunct amerindian pagan-pervert genius locii this time at last you get to meet Jimmy a Joey who are precisely as imagined, feed them cheeseburgers pink shakes bribe them with action-figures gum, these two microcosms, these two fire-clowns ~ so that all of us in a moment of mutual unspoken relief at this shattering of worshipful destinies, all of us suddenly gracefully have to embrace kiss, kiss chaste cool on the lips grin like bobcats for this fortunate derailment, this whistle-stop, this milk-run, this hobo's muscatel" -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Registration confirmation - Yahoo! Games
Title: Welcome To Yahoo! Help Do not reply to this message. If you did not request this account, click here. Registration Confirmed - Welcome to Yahoo! This message confirms your new account with Yahoo!. Your Yahoo! ID: cypherpunks2000 Your email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What if the email address listed above is incorrect or changes in the future? Please keep your email contact current so we can help you in case you can't access your Yahoo! account. To update your email address, first sign into Yahoo! Games or any other Yahoo! personalized service. Then click on "Account Info" at the top of the page. (If "Account Info" is not available, please click on "Options" first, then on "Account Info.") The field you need to change is called "Alternate email address." What can I do with my new Yahoo! ID? Yahoo! MailGet your own yahoo.com email address Yahoo! AuctionsBuy and sell for free. Yahoo! ChatChat with people from all over the world. Yahoo! CalendarKeep yourself organized. My Yahoo!Customize the way you use the internet. Yahoo! GamesNew and classic online games. Yahoo! TravelReservations, tickets, discounts and information. Yahoo! ShoppingSearch for your favorite products and brands and compare prices. Yahoo! MessengerGet notified when you have new mail and send instant messages. Show me more... Thank you for signing up at Yahoo! What if I didn't request this account? Please click here if you didn't request it or no longer wish to have it. If you are then prompted for the deletion key, please cut and paste the following to the text box as requested on the deletion page: IXtKZI53f2J1d3J5fHQ1Nzc3OI4heUpOcWJOc3p5eWVyN2FkIXVKTjFONDc0NTYwIXNKYGY= You could also reply to this email (and make sure to copy this entire email in your reply) with REMOVE as the subject line. [63.24.127.31]
SECrets Newsletter 9.18.00
EDGAR Online's SECrets Newsletter Editor: Timothy Middleton, EDGAR Online Analyst mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ***INSIDE THIS ISSUE NEW AND NOTEWORTHY: SEC Warns on Pre-IPO Fraud QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Schedule 13D ON THE INSIDE: TCF Financial Insiders are Sellers COMPANIES MENTIONED IN THIS ISSUE PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS ISSUE /--ADVERTISEMENT\ Starved for food for thought? The free Business 2.0 Daily Insight newsletter delivers easily digestible business insights. Subscribe today at http://live.doubleclick.net/business2-0/Biz20_sec.html \---/ *** NEW AND NOTEWORTHY *** SEC Warns on 'Pre - IPO' Fraud Federal regulators have detected an increase in fraudulent securities offerings online and are warning investors to be careful of online securities sales. Regulators are also warning investors to be wary of ``pre-IPO'' stock offerings - i.e. opportunities for investors to get a "jump" on the market before the firms go public. The SEC has recently charged several offending companies with fraud. On Thursday, the SEC said it had reached a settlement with Austin, Texas-based 1stBuy.com Inc., a company that operates an Internet retail site. Roger D. Pringle, the company's founder and chief financial officer, neither admitted nor denied wrongdoing in agreeing to the settlement of the SEC's allegations, but agreed to pay a $25,000 fine. Regulators say 1stBuy.com raised $3.8 million from 1,200 investors nationwide by making false and misleading statements about an IPO, and by referring to the offering as a ``pre-IPO.'' According to the Associate Press, it was the fourth such action by the SEC recently. Since March, the SEC has alleged that three Internet companies, New World Web Vision.com, Y2K Highway Inc. and Stadtt Media LLC, committed securities fraud by making false claims about IPOs. All three cases are pending in federal court. *** QUESTION OF THE WEEK*** QUESTION: What is a Schedule 13D? ANSWER: Schedule 13D is an SEC document that must be filed by any person or entity acquiring direct or beneficial ownership of at least 5% of any class of a company's outstanding shares. The purchaser must file Schedule 13D within 10 days of reaching the 5% ownership threshold, and all subsequent trades must be stated promptly on an "amended" 13D. The purchaser must also indicate their intention of ownership - i.e. passive investment or takeover attempt. The purchaser must also file a 13D with the company itself, and with the stock exchange on which the shares are listed. ***ON THE INSIDE*** TCF Financial Insiders are Sellers Regional banks have defied a broader rally this year in the financial services sector. While the financial services sector is ahead 7.7% through July, according to Standard Poor's, the average regional bank stock was down 3.3%. Not so shares of TCF Financial Corp (TCB). They are up 57% this year, not including dividends paid in February, May and August. The holding company for TCF National Bank and TCF National Bank Colorado, which operates in five upper Midwest states, likewise hiked its quarterly payout during the period to 21.3 cents a share, from 18.8 cents. Insiders have shown prescience in the past, selling into strength in their company's stock just ahead of sometimes-steep declines. Lately, they've been selling again. In the last two months, five of them have filed Form 144s with the SEC that indicate the sale of more than 200,000 shares, according to Thomson Financial/First Call. Most recently William A. Cooper, chief executive, reported on Aug. 23 selling 90,000 shares for $32 apiece, or nearly $2.9 million http://www.edgar-online.com/auth/doctrans/default.asp?doc=B-117264 TCF has prospered in part because it has managed to boost deposits significantly. In general, says James F. Catudal, manager of Fidelity Select Financial Services Fund, (FIDSX): "Regional banks are right now funding loan growth with purchased money. They're not able to attract low-cost deposits from customers anymore." That's exactly what TCF has managed to do, however. On Sept. 9, it announced that its network of branches in supermarkets had topped $1 billion in deposits, or nearly 10% of the bank's total. TCF is the fourth-largest operator of bank branches in supermarkets, with 212 of them. In the Chicago area, TCF claims to have the second-highest number of non-interest bearing retail checking accounts. Thomson's Paul Elliott says Cooper "last sold shares in November of last year, ahead of a 35% decline" in the company's stock. Another prominent seller has been Timothy P. Bailey, president of the company's Wisconsin operations. He filed Form 144 on July 26
TroppoLotto presents eHarlequin.com
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EDGAR Online - Here is the Information You Requested
Your EDGAR Online (http://www.edgar-online.com) username and password are case-sensitive and must be entered exactly as they are shown here. Username: Cyperpunks Password: cypherpunks You can upgrade your current EDGAR Online Visitor Registration using these identifiers at http://www.edgar-online.com/user_upgrade.asp. If you have any questions email [EMAIL PROTECTED] or phone 1-800-416-6651 (203-852-5666) Monday - Friday, 9:00AM - 7:30PM EST. EDGAR Online
