Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
At 10:23 PM -0800 on 12/14/00, Tim May wrote: April 1st is many months off, so why this? :-). Let's see now, you're about the third or fourth person to note the same think (Stewart, Broiles, for example), on this very thread. The first being, of course, Perry... Yes, I'd heard about the flaps and seals folks. Yes, probably seven or eight times. From you, alone, over the years. Somehow I figured, if the snake-oil humor relevant, then maybe these quys had done something new, chemically, that made this iteration of the same old idea a little different. Cheers, RAH (In the meantime, are you *sure* you really want to start this kind of snide shit again, Tim? It seems to me you and I were doing rather nicely the last 9 or 10 months or so...) -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
At 11:13 PM -0800 12/14/00, R. A. Hettinga wrote: At 10:23 PM -0800 on 12/14/00, Tim May wrote: April 1st is many months off, so why this? :-). Let's see now, you're about the third or fourth person to note the same think (Stewart, Broiles, for example), on this very thread. The first being, of course, Perry... Yes, I'd heard about the flaps and seals folks. Yes, probably seven or eight times. From you, alone, over the years. Sorry I didn't see the other responses, who pointed out the same things I pointed out, basically. I was away for a couple of days and was catching up on a lot of mail. I'm just amazed that "New Scientist" or anyone else would not know that making paper transparent is trivial. I may take their "What if atoms don't actually exist?" sorts of cover stories (quantum weirdness, stuff from nothingness, etc.) less seriously. (In the meantime, are you *sure* you really want to start this kind of snide shit again, Tim? It seems to me you and I were doing rather nicely the last 9 or 10 months or so...) It wasn't "snide shit." Reread what I wrote. But, since you are apparently so willing to be offended, and have more than several times brought up some notion that we have some sort of truce, let me disabuse you of this by saying "Fuck off." --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: 1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- At 11:59 PM -0800 on 12/14/00, Tim May wrote: "Fuck off." There you go again. :-). Nonetheless, after 6 1/2 years, it does feel like it's time for me move on, and it seems quite appropriate for me to go out the same way I came in: with Tim yelling. ;-). Thanks for all the fish, everybody. Have fun. Cheers, RAH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBOjob+8UCGwxmWcHhAQGKDgf/RBn5rb1rm3K1lDlL8pfy2jqGQGb4QNi2 /mdKH0oSEgQ6m+YL3SquIeOzWf1n6n+XINkMUPHQkjH2hTj35iFGPkiL3MDJ3f91 m+GzIscZXIdauu9T9vYoBSC5QktH4VK4bzQ0PZaBjyIv3n+jdjgczSJeUXY3j+v+ DrxWEuEeI0LxfJZgiOTwUxzmtMy8EA7f9Sc3dOYZfNKNIRPxoKII7mg6JdhpRXaR DJTvGeWwC35xwJxpK5kEBh/MwypClMvarZp+ICUToj5YySe7Z99Ly9Go0yKuTmAu B1h8QZv8fgZ0cH+nqaQte+gqFkohXTzPNYj1zu5ytALr778HMAfoLA== =lXpG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
At 03:50 AM 12/14/00 -0800, R. A. Hettinga wrote: FOR ALL TO SEE It's a spray which renders sealed envelopes transparent, making the letters inside as easy to read as postcards. "It leaves an odour for 10 to 15 minutes," says the spray's inventor, but, apart from that, "no evidence at all" that it's been used. While the manufacturer describes "See-Through" as a "non-conductive, non-toxic, environmentally safe liquid", human rights activists believe "it's an ethically questionable product" which could tempt security forces to bend laws. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226930 [Lighter fluid and similar stuff works just fine. That's been known for over a hundred years... --Perry] Wouldn't this be detectable if you scrawled on the envelope with an ink succeptible to paper chromatography in that solvent? You can make primitive (before cheap float glass) windows by oiling paper...
RE: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
Title: RE: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind... Doesn't appear to defeat security envelopes either, which have been around for quite some time. -Original Message- From: David Honig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 2:06 PM To: R. A. Hettinga; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind... At 03:50 AM 12/14/00 -0800, R. A. Hettinga wrote: FOR ALL TO SEE It's a spray which renders sealed envelopes transparent, making the letters inside as easy to read as postcards. It leaves an odour for 10 to 15 minutes, says the spray's inventor, but, apart from that, no evidence at all that it's been used. While the manufacturer describes See-Through as a non-conductive, non-toxic, environmentally safe liquid, human rights activists believe it's an ethically questionable product which could tempt security forces to bend laws. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226930 [Lighter fluid and similar stuff works just fine. That's been known for over a hundred years... --Perry] Wouldn't this be detectable if you scrawled on the envelope with an ink succeptible to paper chromatography in that solvent? You can make primitive (before cheap float glass) windows by oiling paper...
Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
At 3:50 AM -0800 12/14/00, R. A. Hettinga wrote: At 11:35 PM -0600 on 12/13/00, by way of [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FOR ALL TO SEE It's a spray which renders sealed envelopes transparent, making the letters inside as easy to read as postcards. "It leaves an odour for 10 to 15 minutes," says the spray's inventor, but, apart from that, "no evidence at all" that it's been used. While the manufacturer describes "See-Through" as a "non-conductive, non-toxic, environmentally safe liquid", human rights activists believe "it's an ethically questionable product" which could tempt security forces to bend laws. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226930 April 1st is many months off, so why this? Tools for making envelopes transparent have been in use for many decades, perhaps a century or more. Bamford and Kahn, IIRC, discuss varius government agencies during WWII and later steaming envelopes--the so-called "Flaps and Seals" folks. They may have alluded to freon sprays and all the newer methods, but it was pretty clear that Flaps and Seals was not limited to just "steaming." I saw sprays used for making envelopes transparent sold in novelty stores and catalogs back in the 70s. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: 1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Re: Perry's Paint Fable comes to mind...
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 03:50:55AM -0800, R. A. Hettinga wrote: Real-To: "R. A. Hettinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 11:35 PM -0600 on 12/13/00, by way of [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FOR ALL TO SEE It's a spray which renders sealed envelopes transparent, making the letters inside as easy to read as postcards. "It leaves an odour for 10 to 15 minutes," says the spray's inventor, but, apart from that, "no evidence at all" that it's been used. While the manufacturer describes "See-Through" as a "non-conductive, non-toxic, environmentally safe liquid", human rights activists believe "it's an ethically questionable product" which could tempt security forces to bend laws. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns226930 Inventor? Shit. You can achieve this result with the "canned air" dusters sold to computer techs and photo people by simply turning the can upside down so the magic stuff emerges in liquid, not gaseous form - drip or spray it on the envelope in question, and the paper becomes (partially) translucent. The human rights activists are just pissed off they can't afford it themselves if they order it from a spy catalog. Everyone can afford it at Fry's - and learn thing about their friends and neighbors that they'll someday wish they hadn't. -- Greg Broiles [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 897 Oakland CA 94604
