Brin needs killing, XIIV

2005-01-14 Thread Eugen Leitl
- Forwarded message from David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] -

From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 04:02:03 -0500
To: Ip ip@v2.listbox.com
Subject: [IP] more on   No expectation of privacy in public?
 In a pig's eye!
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- Forwarded Message
From: Josh Duberman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:19:51 -0800
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!

Hi - I forwarded these messages to author David Brin.
His reply is below, and he gave permission for you to post it IP if you
wish.

Thank you and best wishes - Josh


Josh, thanks for sharing these remarks about privacy.
Alas, these folks are falling for the usual trap that
has snared so many well-meaning people for the last
decade.  They are right to worry about creeping Big
Brotherism... and vigorously defending the wrong
stretch of wall.

What weird reflex is it, that makes bright people fall
for the trap of seeing SECRECY as a friend of freedom?
(Oh, when it's YOUR secrecy you call it privacy.) To
rail against others seeing, without suggesting  any
conceivable way that

(1) the technologies could be stopped or
(2) how it would help matters to stop govt
surveillance even if we could.

As I've emphasized in The Transparent Society, the
thing that has kept us free and safe has been to
emphasize MORE information flows.  To
ENHANCE how much average people know.

http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/08/04/mortal_gods/index_np.html

And yes, this is the one way to protect genuine
PRIVACY... though any sensible person knows that the
word will be re-defined in a new century flooded with
cheap cameras.

(For a look at the near future, see:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/workplace/1078288485.php)

This inane reflex to try to blind others, instead of
empowering citizens to look back, is like a drug,
alas.  But slowly people are awakening to the facts.
The world will be a sea of cameras and vision.  But
that needn't be a nightmare, if we can hold the
watchers accountable by looking BACK.

With cordial regards,

David Brin 
www.davidbrin.com http://www.davidbrin.com

David Farber wrote:
  
 Orwell was an amateur djf
 
 
 -- Forwarded Message
 From: Lauren Weinstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:38:28 -0800
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!
 
 Dave,
 
 It's time to blow the lid off this no expectation of privacy in
 public places argument that judges and law enforcement now spout out
 like demented parrots in so many situations.
 
 Technology has rendered that argument meaningless -- unless we
 intend to permit a pervasive surveillance slave society to become
 our future -- which apparently is the goal among some parties.
 
 It is incredibly disingenuous to claim that cameras (increasingly
 tied to face recognition software) and GPS tracking devices (which
 could end up being standard in new vehicles as part of their
 instrumentation black boxes), etc. are no different than cops
 following suspects.
 
 Technology will effectively allow everyone to be followed all of the
 time.  Unless society agrees that everything you do outside the
 confines of your home and office should be available to authorities
 on demand -- even retrospectively via archived images and data -- we
 are going down an incredibly dangerous hole.
 
 I use the slimy guy in the raincoat analogy.  Let's say the
 government arranged for everyone to be followed at all times in
 public by slimy guys in raincoats.  Each has a camera and clipboard,
 and wherever you go in public, they are your shadow.  They keep
 snapping photos of where you go and where you look.  They're
 constantly jotting down the details of your movements.  When you go
 into your home, they wait outside, ready to start shadowing you
 again as soon as you step off your property.  Every day, they report
 everything they've learned about you to a government database.
 
 Needless to say, most people would presumably feel incredibly
 violated by such a scenario, even though it's all taking place in
 that public space where we're told that we have no expectation of
 privacy.
 
 Technology is creating the largely invisible equivalent of that guy
 in the raincoat, ready to tail us all in perpetuity.  If we don't
 control him, he will most assuredly control us.
 
 --Lauren--
 Lauren Weinstein
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
 http://www.pfir.org/lauren
 Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
 Co-Founder, Fact Squad - http://www.factsquad.org
 Co-Founder, URIICA - Union for Representative International Internet
  

Re: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

2005-01-14 Thread Bill Stewart
At 12:30 PM 1/12/2005, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if the man doesn't need a warrent
to place a surveilance device, shouldn't it be within your rights
to tamper with, disable or remove such a device if you discover one?
Do you mean that if you discover an unsolicited gift of
consumer electronics attached to your car,
do you have the right to play with it just as you would if
it came in the mail?  I would certainly expect so...
On the other hand, if it appears to be a lost item,
you could be a good public citizen and take it to the police
to see if anybody claims it...
GPS tracker is an ambiguous description, though.
GPS devices detect where they are, but what next?
A device could record where it was, for later collection,
or it could transmit its position to a listener.
Tampering with existing recordings might have legal
implications, but putting a transmitter-based system
in your nearest garbage can or accidentally leaving it in a taxi
or mailing it to Medellin all seem like reasonable activities.



Bill Stewart  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Re: Brin needs killing, XIIV

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
At 10:05 AM +0100 1/14/05, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Brin needs killing, XIIV

er, Eleventy Four? Fifteen the hard way?

;-)

Cheers,
RAH
Who was backhanded once for calling Brin a statist in public...
-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Re: Searching with Images instead of Words

2005-01-14 Thread Sarad AV
hi,

They had been researching on this line in Indian
Institue of Science, Bangalore. I think image
searching has fundamental limits. For  successfully 
matching two images, there should be a subset of
information in both that totally match or match with a
high probability.

Expecting a front view of an image to match with a
side view of the same image is impossible. They are
both disjoint sets of information.

If all the images are frontal images, we can match
them with a hight probability, otherwise I doubt this
technology has a future.

Sarad.


--- Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Link:
 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/13/184226
 Posted by: CmdrTaco, on 2005-01-13 20:29:00
 
from the blessing-for-those-who-can't-spell dept.
[1]johnsee writes A computer vision researcher
 by the name of Hartmut
Neven is [2]developing ingenious new technology
 that allows the
searching of a database by submitting an image,
 for example, off a
mobile phone camera. Imagine taking a photo of a
 street corner to find
out where you are, or the photo of a city
 building to see its history
 
IFRAME: [3]pos6
 
 References
 
1. http://www.sandstorming.com/
2.

http://www.thefeature.com/article?articleid=101341ref=5147543
3.

http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2936alloc_id=13732site_id=1request_id=9329739
 
 - End forwarded message -
 -- 
 Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a

__
 ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144   
 http://www.leitl.org
 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443
 8B29 F6BE
 http://moleculardevices.org
 http://nanomachines.net
 

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Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 



Do You Own Yourself?

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/ownyourself.shtml


The Lawful Path 


Do You Own Yourself?

by Butler Shaffer

One of my favorite quotations comes from Thomas Pynchon: If they can get
you asking the wrong questions, they don´t have to worry about answers.
Our world is in the mess it is in today because most of us have
internalized the fine art of asking the wrong questions.

 Contrary to the thinking that would have us believe that the conflict,
violence, tyranny, and destructiveness that permeates modern society is the
result of bad or hateful people, disparities in wealth, or lack of
education, all of our social problems are the direct consequence of a
general failure to respect the inviolability of one another´s property
interests!

I begin my Property classes with the question: do you own yourself? Most
of my students eagerly nod their heads in the affirmative, until I warn
them that, by the time we finish examining this question at the end of the
year, they will find their answer most troubling, whatever it may be today.
If you do own yourself, then why do you allow the state to control your
life and other property interests? And if you answer that you do not own
yourself, then what possible objection can you raise to anything that the
state may do to you? We then proceed to an examination of the case of Dred
Scott v. Sandford.

The question of whether Dred Scott was a self-owning individual, or the
property of another, is the same question at the core of the debate on
abortion. Is the fetus a self-owning person, or an extension of the
property boundaries of the mother? The same property analysis can be used
to distinguish victimizing from victimless crimes: murder, rape, arson,
burglary, battery, theft, and the like, are victimizing crimes because
someone´s property boundaries were violated. In a victimless crime, by
contrast, no trespass to a property interest occurs. If one pursues the
substance of the issues that make up political and legal debates today,
one always finds a property question at stake: is person x entitled to
make decisions over what is his, or will the state restrain his
decision-making in some way? Regulating what people can and cannot put into
their bodies, or how they are to conduct their business or social
activities, or how they are to educate their children, are all centered
around property questions.

 Property is not simply some social invention, like Emily Post´s guide to
etiquette, but a way of describing conditions that are essential to all
living things. Every living thing must occupy space and consume energy from
outside itself if it is to survive, and it must do so to the exclusion of
all  other living things on the planet. I didn´t dream this up. My thinking
was not consulted before the life system developed. The world was operating
on the property principle when I arrived and, like the rest of us, I had to
work out my answers to that most fundamental, pragmatic of all social
questions: who gets to make decisions about what? The essence of
ownership is to be found in control: who gets to be the ultimate decision
maker about  people and things in the world?

 Observe the rest of nature: trees, birds, fish, plants, other  mammals,
bacteria, all stake out claims to space and sources of energy in the world,
and will defend such claims against intruders, particularly members of
their own species. This is not because they are mean-spirited or
uncooperative: quite the contrary, many of us have discovered that
cooperation is a great way of increasing the availability of the energy we
need to live well. We have found out that, if we will respect the property
claims of one another and work together, each of us can enjoy more property
in our lives than if we try to function independently of one another. Such
a discovery has permitted us to create economic systems.

 There is no way that I could have produced, by myself, the computer upon
which I am writing this article. Had I devoted my entire life to the
undertaking, I would have been unable even to have conceived of its
technology. Many other men and women, equally unable to have undertaken the
task by themselves, cooperated without even knowing one another in its
creation. Lest you think that my writing would have to have been
accomplished through the use of a pencil, think again: I would also have
been unable to produce a pencil on my own, as Leonard Read once illustrated
in a wonderful, brief essay.

 Such cooperative undertakings have been possible because of a truth
acknowledged by students of marketplace economic systems, particularly the
Austrians about human nature: each of us acts only in anticipation of being
better off afterwards as a result of our actions. Toward whatever ends we
choose to act, and such ends are constantly rearranging their priorities
within us, their satisfaction is always expressed in terms inextricably
tied to decision making over something one owns (or seeks to own). Whether
I wish to 

Weekend-Playoffs: Steelers, Patriots, Vikings, Etc!

2005-01-14 Thread Playoff-Action from OSG






Playoff-Time








RE: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

2005-01-14 Thread Trei, Peter
Bill Stewart wrote:

 At 12:30 PM 1/12/2005, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
 Just out of curiosity, if the man doesn't need a warrent
 to place a surveilance device, shouldn't it be within your rights
 to tamper with, disable or remove such a device if you discover one?
 
 Do you mean that if you discover an unsolicited gift of
 consumer electronics attached to your car,
 do you have the right to play with it just as you would if
 it came in the mail?  I would certainly expect so...

Attaching it to another car would seem a suitable prank -
someone who travels a lot, on an irregular path - a pizza
delivery guy, or a real estate agent. Or perhaps a long
distance truck.

It would take some chutzpa, but tacking onto a cops
car would send a message

Peter Trei




US slaps on the wardriver-busting paint

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/wi_fi_paint/print.html

The Register


 Biting the hand that feeds IT

The Register » Security » Network Security »

 Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/wi_fi_paint/

US slaps on the wardriver-busting paint
By Lester Haines (lester.haines at theregister.co.uk)
Published Thursday 13th January 2005 11:52 GMT

Security-minded US decorators' supply outfit Force Field Wireless
(http://forcefieldwireless.com) claims to have developed a DIY solution to
the international menace of marauding geek wardrivers - DefendAir paint
laced with copper and aluminum fibers that form an electromagnetic shield,
blocking most radio waves and protecting wireless networks.

According to a South Florida Sun Sentinel report
(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-sbgizmos09jan09,0,2849380.story?coll=sfla-business-headlines),
one coat of the water-based paint shields Wi-Fi, WiMax and Bluetooth
networks operating at frequencies from 100 megahertz to 2.4 gigahertz,
while two or three applications are good for networks operating at up to
five gigahertz.

Simple as that. Of course, there are a few downsides to this miracle
product. First up, you must be careful how you slap it on. Force Field
Wireless rep Harold Wray admits that radio waves find leaks, while the
company asks users to be aware that the product must be applied
selectively otherwise it might hinder the performance of radios,
televisions and cell phones.

Reg readers can make of this apparent contradiction what they will, and are
asked to direct any technically-based sceptisicm to Force Field Wireless,
and not to Vulture Central. Thankyou.

Another snagette is that DefendAir is available only in grey - a fact
sufficient to provoke what is known in the UK as interior designers'
wobbly. Mercifully, it can be used as a primer, so those who require
wireless peace of mind plus bold fashion statement can rest assured that
coat of Wardriver Crimson will cover it up quite nicely.

It only remains for us to say that DefendAir costs a cool $69 per gallon
(US gallon, presumably). Still, that's a small price to pay for the
absolute certainty that High School students are not right now sitting
across the street recording your credit card details for later deployment
in the online purchase of pornography, drugs and semi-automatic weapons. ®

Related stories

Business frets over wireless security
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/01/wifi_security_worries/)
UK scientists roll out Wi-Fi proof wallpaper
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/12/wifi_wallpaper/)
Michigan wardrivers await sentencing
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/06/michigan_wardrivers_guilty/)
Wi-Fi 'sniper rifle' debuts at DEFCON
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/03/wi-fi_aerial_gun/)

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Isle of Man welcomes US online punters

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/isle_man_gambling/print.html

The Register


 Biting the hand that feeds IT

The Register » Internet and Law » eCommerce »

 Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/isle_man_gambling/

Isle of Man welcomes US online punters
By Lester Haines (lester.haines at theregister.co.uk)
Published Thursday 13th January 2005 15:37 GMT

The Isle of Man now allows US punters to gamble in online casinos based on
the island, the NY Times reports. The announcement will rattle US
authorities opposed to American citizens having a flutter beyond the reach
of US legislation.

Indeed, US prosecutors have launched a series of actions against operations
doing business with foreign online casinos. Some credit cards, Amex
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/18/gambling_block/) included, do not
allow customers to gamble on the web at all. In response, the WTO recently
declared (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/11/us_gambling_wto_rumble/)
that this prohibition of cross-border trade breaks breached the 1994
general agreement on trade and services, and ruled in favour of Caribbean
nation Antigua and Barbuda in the matter.

The Isle of Man has operated online casinos since 2001, initially
attracting some big-bucks operators including MGM Mirage. However, after an
initial boom, a flattened market provoked many, MGM among them, to shut
down their Irish Sea operations.

The island's new policy came into force on 1 January, and is clearly an
attempt to revitalise the online gambling economy. Tim Craine, the head of
electronic business for the Isle of Man, said: There's a lot of business
looking to relocate to a reputable, regulated jurisdiction. We're hoping to
capitalize on that business by changing our policy.

Craine confirmed that the Isle of Man is particularly looking to attract
representatives of the burgeoning online poker business
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/12/online_poker/), currently worth
between $2m and $2.5m per day worldwide. ®

Related stories

Punters warm to online poker
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/12/online_poker/)
 Online roulette has Germans in a spin
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/15/spielbank_wiesbaden/)
WTO rules against US gambling laws
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/11/us_gambling_wto_rumble/)
UK Gov unwraps Gambling Bill
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/19/gambling_bill/)
Amex prevents punters gambling online
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/18/gambling_block/)
Online poker ace scores £4,500 - per week
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/15/online_poker_ace/)
Irish punters enjoy online betting
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/05/irish_online_betting/)

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Re: Brin needs killing, XIIV

2005-01-14 Thread Steve Thompson
To leave the attributions and headers, or not?  

 --- Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 - Forwarded message from David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
 
 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 04:02:03 -0500
 To: Ip ip@v2.listbox.com
 Subject: [IP] more on   No expectation of privacy in public?
  In a pig's eye!

 Thank you and best wishes - Josh
 
 
 Josh, thanks for sharing these remarks about privacy.
 Alas, these folks are falling for the usual trap that
 has snared so many well-meaning people for the last
 decade.  They are right to worry about creeping Big
 Brotherism... and vigorously defending the wrong
 stretch of wall.

I was naive once too.  
 
 What weird reflex is it, that makes bright people fall
 for the trap of seeing SECRECY as a friend of freedom?

As we all know, 'freedom' is a value-neutral term when 
used on it's own, without a suitable modifier, as in
the above.

 (Oh, when it's YOUR secrecy you call it privacy.) To

I imagine that most people, in the fuzzy space of
colloquial conceptions, associate 'privacy' with the
information security of their own lives, and associate
`secrecy' with the concealment of corporate or government
information, processes, and assets.  But we may use the
terms interchangeably if it makes you happy.  

To wit: I have secrets which I would like to keep 
from malicious criminals and other government workers.

 rail against others seeing, without suggesting  any
 conceivable way that
 
 (1) the technologies could be stopped or
 (2) how it would help matters to stop govt
 surveillance even if we could.
 
 As I've emphasized in The Transparent Society, the
 thing that has kept us free and safe has been to
 emphasize MORE information flows.  To
 ENHANCE how much average people know.

Ok, that is a nice idea but...
 
 http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm
[skimmed]

Given the information-centric disparity that already
exists between individuals of varying allegiance or
association, how is it possible to assure that most
everyone is brought up to speed on the current state-
of-the-art in the numerous fields of study and 
technology that relate to intelligence and counter-
intelligence in such a way as to make the playing
field level for all?  As it stands, with the mutability
inherent in the acquisition and interpretation of 
signals and surveillance data, it is too easy for 
large masses of people to acquire widespread mis-
conceptions about the veracity of the information
at their disposal.  Put another way: hypothetical 
well-organised dis-information sophisticates could
in theory arrange to give the masses a false 
sense of security and inclusiveness within a subtly
fraudulent framework of public-mediated surveillance
and information sharing.  Perhaps this could be 
arranged by building backdoors and covert access
points in the public surveillance network which 
would allow the 'cabal' to diguise their activities
while also permitting them to arbitrarily muck
about with the publically availble data, subject only
to constraints imposed by the actual state-of-the-art --
enhanced on a practical level by virtue of limiting
in some ways the technology available to the masses.

If that makes sense to you, then it should become 
obvious that certifying the `public surveillance 
network' free compromise by privilaged elites of
any kind becomes a very difficult task.  And as we
all know, groups like the NSA and their foreign 
counterparts already enjoy an indeterminate lead
on the public in areas of interest and relation to
information technology and surveillance.  So, how do
we as average citizens mitigate the threat of being
lulled into a false sense of security by the flashy
newness of some kind of hypothetical BrinWorld 
public surveillance and sharing network?

Clearly this is a large problem, and I certainly don't
have the answer.  But, I think the idea of BrinWorld is 
the correct approach, and obviously some very intelligent
people think so too.  I would refer to the paper entitiled
The Weapon of Openness, by Arthur Kantrowitz, which
approaches this issue from a more general perspective.   

Most likely, there is a solution that we all can live 
with.  Avoiding the risks will, however, be rather
difficult.  Personally, I wouldn't mind too much living 
in a total surveillance world if I were assured that
everyone else was subject to the same level of scrutiny. 
This is primarily because I don't engage in activities 
which are particularly shameful or which are dependent
upon the immoral or wanton explotation and subversion 
of another person's right to pursue interests that
do not harm others.  I am fully aware that a great
many people do engage in such activities, some of 
which are cultural rites or religious rituals that
are validated by the tacit legitimacy given to them
by a tyrranical majority.  And then there are people 
who live off the avails of crime because they find 
that 

Sun creates worlds smallest SSL Web server

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=38DE2210-C6D9-4A59-B84F-98588FA24962
- Computer Business Review

Sun creates world's smallest SSL Web server

 
Sun Microsystems Inc has created what can truly be called a microsystem.
The tiny server, nicknamed Sizzle (from Slim SSL), is the size and shape
of a quarter. It was created by Sun's engineers as a proof-of-concept
machine for embedded applications and will be presented at the Pervasive
Computing and Communications show in March.

14 Jan 2005, 10:47 GMT -
 Sizzle is a wireless Web server and is based on an 8-bit microprocessor
designed by Crossbow Technology Inc. The server has 8Kb of main memory,
which implements a stripped-down operating system plus a Web server and an
SSL server. Crossbow has created its own operating system, called TinyOS,
for these remote computers, often referred to as motes.

The mote that Sun is using in Sizzle is called the MICA2DOT, and it is
powered by a three-volt button battery, like the kind in your motherboard
to keep your BIOS settings alive. It is unclear if Sun is using TinyOS or a
stripped-down version of Solaris or Linux to create its micro Web server.

Sun is adding 128Kb of flash memory to the mote, and it is implementing a
version of SSL based on Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) that Sun says
makes public key cryptography suitable on a very tiny machine with
extremely limited capabilities.

Sizzle can complete an SSL handshake in under four seconds, and can do it
in under two seconds with sessions that are reused; the Web server can
transfer about 450 bytes per second. While you may not be able to run Yahoo
on it, you can build vast arrays of sensors with ad hoc networking, which
is what motes are for.


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Hanging the Pirates

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0131/096_print.html

Forbes



Security
Hanging the Pirates
01.31.05



Paul Kocher has a way to save Hollywood from illegal copying.

Over the past few months top brass from Hollywood and Japan's consumer
electronics giants have been hashing out their futures in hotel meeting
rooms in Tokyo and Los Angeles. Topic A is the politically charged debate
over the standard for the new high-definition DVDs, which the film industry
hopes will swell the current $24 billion DVD market, as hi-def becomes the
norm. Most of the players want to get something decided on within a year.

But, as big as the stakes are in those discussions, the movie studios are
even more keen on the outcome of the talks on the 39th floor of Toshiba's
Tokyo headquarters.



By the Numbers

Price of Piracy

Illegal file-sharing hits music far harder than film--for now.

 $21 billion n DVD sales in U.S. in 2004, a 200% increase since 2000.

 $12 billion CD sales in U.S., a 17% decline since 2000.

 $3 billion Amount movie studios lose to piracy each year.

 $4 billion Amount music publishers lose to piracy each year.

 Sources: Adams Media Research; RIAA; MPAA.
 There, a select security committee representing both hardware and film
makers has an extremely rare opportunity to stop digital piracy from doing
to movies what it did to music. Napster and its ilk have helped knock 17%
off of record label sales in the past three years. With DVD's basic
encryption already cracked and one-quarter of American homes now capable of
broadband-speed downloads, it's inevitable that one day the latest Harry
Potter film will be swapped as easily as U2's new hit.

This is the number one priority at the highest levels, says Thomas
Lesinski, president of Paramount Home Entertainment. The studios want to
have more control over protecting our content.

One of the most important people involved in that discussion is Paul
Kocher, the 31-year-old president of Cryptography Research, a tiny San
Francisco consulting and licensing firm that brought in $6 million last
year. Kocher is soft-spoken, young and obscure, but his credibility in the
encryption business is sterling. Eight years ago, fresh out of Stanford,
Kocher cowrote Secure Sockets Layer (SSL), the protocol that secures the
vast majority of commerce on the Internet.

What Kocher is pushing is the concept of renewable security. Any attempt to
erect a one-time, rigid barrier between thieves and content, he says, is
useless, including the current method pushed through by the Japanese
consumer electronics companies. With very few exceptions, all the major
security systems being used by the studios today are either broken and
can't be fixed, or they're not deployed widely enough to be worth hacking,
says Kocher.

Under the existing Content Scrambling System, electronics makers install
the exact same encryption code into nearly every DVD player. But that was
broken by European hackers in 1999 and the trick disseminated widely on the
Internet. Even the least sophisticated user can now download a program that
easily copies protected movies.

Kocher's alternative is to allow for constant change. His system, called
self-protecting digital content, places the security on the disc instead of
in the player. A software recipe running into the millions of steps is
burned onto every new movie disc. Each DVD player would contain a small
chip costing only a few extra cents that would follow the recipe
faithfully. If the DVD player decides the disc is secure, it will decode it
and play the movie. But each film could have a different recipe. So if a
pirate breaks the code on Spider-Man 2, he wouldn't necessarily be able to
break the code on Elf. The studios would always be one step ahead of the
thieves; at the very least it would take pirates more time to break each
film. Not a big deal: Studios make most of their money from DVDs in the
first three months, anyway.

A lot of security systems are hard and brittle, says Robert Baldwin, head
of the security firm Plus Five Consulting. Paul's is more like a willow
tree. It bends and recovers.

No studio executive contacted would comment on Kocher's scheme on the
record, but it looks likely to be the backbone of any eventual security
standard. A group including IBM, Toshiba, Time Warner and Microsoft is also
angling to get a complementary encryption scheme called AACS into every
future player. It will likely be written to work with Kocher's idea.

Consumer electronics firms, which dictated the last encryption format,
never had much to lose from security leaks. Film executives like the fact
that Kocher's scheme gives them a stronger hand. Now they will be able to
decide how much security they want on each disc and when it needs to be
updated.

Kocher, son of a physics professor at Oregon State University in Corvallis,
says he learned about computing because he stayed home a lot, too lazy to
bike the two miles into town. He initially wanted to be a 

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Victor Davis Hanson: Triangulating the War

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
The best book I read this year was Hanson's Carnage and Culture.
Recommend it highly.

Cheers,
RAH


http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/hanson/hanson200501140730.asp

Victor Davis Hanson

The National Review
 January 14, 2005, 7:30 a.m.
Triangulating the War
Yesterday's genius, today's fool, tomorrow's what?

Victor Davis Hanson

Reading the pages of foreign-policy journals, between the long tracts on
Bush's failures and neoconservative arrogance, one encounters mostly
predictions of defeat and calls for phased withdrawal - always with
resounding criticism of the American botched occupation.

 Platitudes follow: We can't just leave now, followed by no real advice
on how a fascist society can be jumpstarted into a modern liberal republic.
After all, there is no government handbook entitled, Operation 1A: How to
remove a Middle East fascist regime in three weeks, reconstruct the
countryside, and hold the first elections in the nation's history - all
within two years. Almost all who supported the war now are bailing on the
pretext that their version of the reconstruction was not followed: While a
three-week war was their idea, a 20-month messy reconstruction was surely
someone else's. Yesterday genius is today's fool - and who knows next month
if the elections work? Witness Afghanistan where all those who recently
said the victory was lost to warlords are now suddenly quiet.

Heads You Lose, Tails We Win
 Indeed, from the oscillating analyses of Iraq, the following impossible
picture often emerges from our intelligentsia. It was a fatal error to
disband the Iraqi army. That led to lawlessness and a loss of confidence in
the American ability to restore immediate order after Saddam's fall. Yet it
was also a fatal error to keep some Baathists in the newly constituted
army. They were corrupt and wished reform to fail - witness the Fallujah
Brigade that either betrayed us or aided the enemy. So we turned off the
Sunnis by disbanding the army - and yet somehow turned off the Shiites by
keeping some parts of it.

Massive construction projects were hogged by gargantuan American firms,
ensconced in the Green Zone that did not engage either local Iraqi workers
or small companies and thus squandered precious good will. Or, indigenous
contractors proved irresponsible and unreliable, evidence for why Iraq was
in such bad shape to begin with. And when we did put exclusive reliance on
them, it ensured only lackadaisical and half-hearted reconstruction.

 We also lost hearts and minds by using GPS bombs to obliterate houses full
of killers and take out blocks of insurgents. And yet we lost hearts and
minds by failing to act decisively and de facto turning over large enclaves
to terrorists and Saddamites whom we were afraid to root out. Elections
should have been held earlier; no, they must be delayed since they come too
soon when the country is still unsecured.

Our helmeted soldiers with sunglasses are holed up in enclaves, don't
mingle, and perpetuated the heavy-handed image of snooty occupiers. But
leaving the Green Zone is an open invitation to kidnapping and worse. So we
are both too well hidden and yet not hidden enough. Embedded media gave us
a real-time picture of the fighting. But (if one is conservative) it left
open the opportunity for sensationalism on the part of wannabe crusaders,
and (if one is liberal) it created too close a psychological bond with the
soldiers that impaired objectivity.

It was a mistake to postpone Iraqi sovereignty for so long; but it is an
equal mistake to rush into elections while the country is so insecure. The
CIA is impotent, out-of-touch, and clownish; somehow it mind-controlled
Allawi, Chalabi, and a host of other Iraqi puppets.

 The litany from the mercurial Beltway always goes on: There were enough
troops to take out Saddam in three weeks, but not enough to restore order
to the countryside - but still too many that resulted in too high an
American profile on the streets of Baghdad. The transformations of Donald
Rumsfeld (this week's genius, last week's fool) have left us stripped down
and bereft of the muscle needed. Yet new, more mobile brigades in strikers
and special forces with laptops are preferable to old armored divisions on
the streets of Iraqi.

We cannot flee, but must not stay. Iraqis publicly say we should leave, but
privately beg us to remain. We were after cheap oil, but gas prices somehow
climbed almost immediately after we went in. Democracy won't work with
these people, but somehow we are seeing three elections in the wake of the
Taliban, Arafat, and Saddam.

There are many constants in all this pessimistic confusion - beside the
fact that we are becoming a near hysterical society. First, our miraculous
efforts in toppling the Taliban and Saddam have apparently made us forget
war is always a litany of mistakes. No conflict is conducted according to
either antebellum planning or can proceed with the benefit of hindsight.
Iraq was not 

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Re: Searching with Images instead of Words

2005-01-14 Thread Tyler Durden
Expecting a front view of an image to match with a
side view of the same image is impossible. They are
both disjoint sets of information.
If all the images are frontal images, we can match
them with a hight probability, otherwise I doubt this
technology has a future.
You are applying pure logic to a very complex subject. I'd bet this is 
already routinely done by TLAs and whatnot, at least as a pre-screen before 
human photograph inspectors.

The most obvious hole in your statement is with respect to 2D Spatial FFTs 
of the image...you can probably greatly increase your match probability via 
certain masking criteria applied to the 2D FFT. And from there there's lots 
of stuff that can be done with colors and other indirect stuff such as 
(perhaps) camera signatures in the photo (eg, If there's text that says 
Hamamatsu Synchroscan Streak Camera then don't bother doing the FFT--it 
ain't a picture of your dog).

Look...a human being can recognize the side image of a person a lot of the 
time. There should be no reason this intelligence can't be encoded somehow.

-TD



Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.wnbc.com/print/4075959/detail.html

wnbc.com

Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun


NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement
regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest
useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.

New Gun Frightens Police
Scott Weinberger

 The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the five-seven --
is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal

It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go
public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon
begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger.
They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand
what they call the most devastating weapon they face.

The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds
without reloading.

This would be devastating, said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City
Police Department.

Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued
by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy
believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total
disadvantage.

Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame, Troy said.

Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As
NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State
Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of
these handguns during a recent arrest.

Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one
that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a
ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us, said Glenn Byrnes,
of the Trumball Police Department.

However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead,
gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian
bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.

At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the
five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police
vest. All three penetrated the vest.

The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both
layers.

In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest.
While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and
an officer would likely have survived the assault.

The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's
what had me concerned, Scinto said.

FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, Most
law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a
ballistic vest.

When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson
said: We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor.

Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to
protect the public and protect themselves.

This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With
the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something
considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop
this round, Scinto said.

In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will
step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.

This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes
out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers, Troy
said. I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the
civilian public.

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Terrorism as an Excuse

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/comment/lott200501140924.asp

The National Review

January 14, 2005, 9:24 a.m.
Terrorism as an Excuse
Another CBS campaign.

By John R. Lott Jr.

Who could oppose laws preventing terrorists from getting guns? Obviously no
one. But it would be nice if laws accomplished something more than simply
making it more difficult for Americans to own guns.

Ironically the day before CBS finally released its report on the 60 Minutes
Memogate scandal, 60 Minutes was again stirring up fears about how
terrorists would use 50-caliber rifles to attack Americans.

Last year it was the semi-automatic assault-weapons ban before it expired.
Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D., N.Y.) claimed the ban was the most effective
measures against terrorism that we have. Of course, nothing happened when
the law expired last year. There was nothing unique about the guns that are
banned under the law. Though the phrase assault weapon conjures up images
of the rapid-fire machine guns used by the military, in fact the weapons
covered by the ban function the same as any semiautomatic hunting rifle;
they fire the exact same bullets with the exact same rapidity and produce
the exact same damage as hunting rifles.

Back in the mid-1980s it was the hysteria over plastic guns when the
Austrian company Glock began exporting pistols to the United States.
Labeled as terrorist specials by the press, fear spread that their
plastic frame and grip would make them invisible to metal detectors. Glocks
are now common and there are good reasons they are one of the favorite
pistols of American police officers. The plastic gun ban did not ban
anything since it is not possible to actually build a working plastic gun.

Now it is the 50-caliber rifles' turn, especially with California outlawing
the sale of these guns since the beginning of the year. For years
gun-control groups have tried to ban 50-caliber rifles because of fears
that criminals could use them. Such bans have not been passed these guns
were simply not suited for crime. Fifty-caliber rifles are big, heavy guns,
weighing at least 30 pounds and using a 29-inch barrel. They are also
relatively expensive. Models that hold one bullet at a time run nearly
$3,000. Semi-automatic versions cost around $7,000. Wealthy target shooters
and big-game hunters, not criminals, purchase them. The bottom line is that
only one person in the U.S. has been killed with such a gun, and even that
one alleged case is debated.

The link to terrorism supposedly provides a new possible reason to ban
50-caliber rifles. But the decision to demonize these particular guns and
not say .475-caliber hunting rifles is completely arbitrary. The difference
in width of these bullets is a trivial .025 inches. What's next? Banning
.45-caliber pistols? Indeed the whole strategy is to gradually reduce the
type of guns that people can own.

Sniper Central, a site for both military snipers and law-enforcement
sharpshooters, claims that For military extreme long-range anti-personnel
purposes, the .338 Lapua is king. Even the .50BMG falls short. (Do to
accuracy problems with current ammo). The .338 Lapua round simply has what
is called a better bullet coefficient, it produces less drag as it travels
through the air.

With a 50-caliber rifle it is possible for an extremely skilled and lucky
marksman to hit a target at 1,800 meters (versus 1,500 meters plus for the
.338 Lapua), though most marksmen say that the effective range for any of
these guns is around 1,000 meters.

The worst abuse that 60 Minutes focused on was the Branch Davidians in Waco
in 1993 having a 50-caliber gun. Yet, no one was harmed with the gun, and
the Davidians surely had many other weapons.  60 Minutes also tried to
scare people with incendiary and explosive ammunition, but the ammunition
discussed is already illegal.

Fighting terrorism is a noble cause, but the laws we pass must have some
real link to solving the problem. Absent that, many will think that 60
Minutes and gun-control groups are simply using terrorism as an excuse to
promote rules that he previously pushed. Making it difficult for
law-abiding Americans to own guns should not be the only accomplishment of
new laws.

 - John Lott, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is
the author of The Bias Against Guns and More Guns, Less Crime.


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Re: Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

2005-01-14 Thread Bill Stewart
At 01:54 PM 1/14/2005, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
http://www.wnbc.com/print/4075959/detail.html
NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement
regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest
useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.
...
The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds
without reloading.
A couple of questions to the gunpunks out there...
I've heard that rifles easily penetrate bullet-proof vests,
and that vests are really only useful against average-to-small handguns
and against shotguns.  Is this accurate?
Any idea how much you can saw off a rifle
and still have it penetrate typical cop vests?
(And I assume the 20 rounds in seconds is just a scary way to say
it has a big magazine and you have to pull the trigger 20 times.)
Also, the police expressed worry that criminals might hear about
these guns and then the cops would be in big trouble.
Sounds silly to me - while some criminals might buy a
cop-killer handgun for bragging rights,
random criminals presumably only buy weapons useful for the
scenarios they imagine being in,
which is Saturday Night Specials for most applications,
or whatever currently fashionable Mac10/Uzi/etc.
for druglord armies that expect to be shooting at each other,
or rifles for distance work and dual-use pickup-truck decoration.
Do many criminals expect to initiate shootouts with vest-wearing cops
in scenarios where a rifle isn't practical?
Do most cops wear bullet-proof vests regularly other than in
holdup/hostage SWAT situations, where the criminal might have rifles anyway,
and where a regular pistol is just fine for shooting hostages?
Or is this mainly a problem for the cases when cops want to stage
military-style pre-dawn assaults on people's houses,
where they expect that the targets usually only have
pistols handy near the bed and don't have time for rifles?
Seems like scare-mongering to me, not a practical concern.



Bill Stewart  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Get paid for your opinion

2005-01-14 Thread Get Paid
Get paid up to $175/hr just for giving your opinion online!

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Spotting Trouble Identifying Faltering and Failing States (1997)

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
Click the link for the couple of tables referenced in the text.

Cheers,
RAH


http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/1997/spring/art4sp97.htm

Naval War College

Spotting Trouble Identifying Faltering and Failing States

 Richard J. Norton  and
 James F. Miskel

 In the past several years, images of American servicemembers hurriedly
deploying to various parts of the developing world in response to collapses
of state governments have become relatively common. For example, in 1995
U.S. troops kept uneasy watch on the borders of the disintegrating Former
Republic of Yugoslavia, patrolled the streets of Haiti, dealt with streams
of refugees pouring out of Rwanda, and withdrew from Somalia after four
years of humanitarian operations. These operations have not been
inexpensive; they have cost billions of dollars and dozens of American
lives.

 U.S. military involvement with faltering and failing states takes many
forms. 1 Actual combat may be involved, against opponents ranging from
criminal gangs possessing little more than light infantry weapons to
semiprofessional armies boasting artillery and armor. 2 In other
circumstances, nation building activities, such as road building, water
purification, and power restoration, make up the bulk of the efforts.
Additional tasks have included advising on clearing land mines, providing
security escorts to representatives of humanitarian organizations, serving
as an interim police force, evacuating foreign nationals, or simply
maintaining an offshore military presence.

 As 1995 demonstrated, states can fail in any portion of the populated
globe. The preparation time given U.S. military planners to respond to
these missions can range from months to only days; actual involvement may
last from weeks to years, with a proportionate range of costs.
Additionally, in an era of shrinking resources and limited force structure,
it is all the more significant that units committed to these missions are
likely to be unavailable for other operations.

 Therefore, military leaders are among the decision makers who have a
vested interest in being able to predict more accurately which states are
likely to fail. Others with this interest would include the president,
senior diplomats in the State Department, and the directors of humanitarian
nongovernmental organizations. Early identification of candidates for
failure would allow time to list required assets and prepare detailed
contingency plans. If, as we shall argue, traditional economic aid does not
significantly help states that are at high risk of failure, early
identification could also aid in forestalling the authorization of costly
and unproductive civil affairs or nation-building missions. In fact, early
warning can provide time to debate usefully whether the military should be
involved at all, and if it should, what shape the participation should take.

 Despite the frequent and prominent involvement of the U.S. military,
dealing with faltering and failed states is primarily a diplomatic issue.
Traditionally, development aid has been viewed as an essential element in
preventing states from failing. Development aid has included military
nation building and civil affairs projects, not only as routine peacetime
operations but also as part of disaster response packages and postconflict
assistance. These projects are often funded solely by the regional
commanders in chief or the military services. Attempts to apply this aid
have frequently been lengthy and quite costly. 3

 Yet notwithstanding the costs that were borne, these efforts have restored
very few failing states to health. Debates regarding the efficient and
effective application of current fiscally constrained military budgets have
become commonplace, both within and outside the military services. A factor
in this debate may be a dawning anxiety about the wisdom of high risk, low
return investments in failing states, investments that may yield little or
no positive return. For these reasons it seems to us that military planners
and decision makers should be interested in considering new approaches
toward aiding failing and faltering states. 4

 One such approach would recognize that the economic, social, and political
conditions in failing states are so adverse that they merit qualitatively
different treatment by the United States. Too often, U.S. foreign aid and
military assistance policies have dealt with failing states as if they were
no different from other underdeveloped and poor nations. Traditional
programs were designed for less dire situations and can, at best, only
moderate the symptoms, not cure such diseases. Thus, continued spending on
traditional forms of foreign aid for these states is not the most
cost-effective strategy in an era of scarce resources. A better
approach--akin to triage for battlefield wounds--would limit aid in these
cases to short-term humanitarian assistance, like disaster relief. These
states do not offer fertile soil for economic 

Feral Cities

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2003/Autumn/art6-a03.htm



Norton
 

FERAL CITIES

Richard J. Norton


Imagine a great metropolis covering hundreds of square miles. Once a vital
component in a national economy, this sprawling urban environment is now a
vast collection of blighted buildings, an immense petri dish of both
ancient and new diseases, a territory where the rule of law has long been
replaced by near anarchy in which the only security available is that which
is attained through brute power.1 Such cities have been routinely imagined
in apocalyptic movies and in certain science-fiction genres, where they are
often portrayed as gigantic versions of T. S. Eliot's Rat's Alley.2 Yet
this city would still be globally connected. It would possess at least a
modicum of commercial linkages, and some of its inhabitants would have
access to the world's most modern communication and computing technologies.
It would, in effect, be a feral city.

Admittedly, the very term feral city is both provocative and
controversial.  Yet this description has been chosen advisedly. The feral
city may be a  phenomenon that never takes place, yet its emergence should
not be dismissed  as impossible. The phrase also suggests, at least
faintly, the nature of  what may become one of the more difficult security
challenges of the new  century.

 Over the past decade or so a great deal of scholarly attention has been
paid to the phenomenon of failing states.3 Nor has this pursuit been
undertaken solely by the academic community. Government leaders and
military commanders as well as directors of nongovernmental organizations
and intergovernmental bodies have attempted to deal with faltering,
failing, and failed states. Involvement by the United States in such
matters has run the gamut from expressions of concern to cautious
humanitarian assistance to full-fledged military intervention. In contrast,
however, there has been a significant lack of concern for the potential
emergence of failed cities. This is somewhat surprising, as the feral city
may prove as common a feature of the global landscape of the first decade
of the twenty-first century as the faltering, failing, or failed state was
in the last decade of the twentieth. While it may be premature to suggest
that a truly feral city-with the possible exception of Mogadishu-can be
found anywhere on the globe today, indicators point to a day, not so
distant, when such examples will be easily found.

This article first seeks to define a feral city. It then describes such  a
city's attributes and suggests why the issue is worth international
attention.  A possible methodology to identify cities that have the
potential to become  feral will then be presented. Finally, the potential
impact of feral cities  on the U.S. military, and the U.S. Navy
specifically, will be discussed.

 DEFINITION AND ATTRIBUTES

The putative feral city is (or would be) a metropolis with a population
of more than a million people in a state the government of which has lost
the ability to maintain the rule of law within the city's boundaries yet
remains a functioning actor in the greater international system.4

In a feral city social services are all but nonexistent, and the vast
majority  of the city's occupants have no access to even the most basic
health or  security assistance. There is no social safety net. Human
security is for  the most part a matter of individual initiative. Yet a
feral city does  not descend into complete, random chaos. Some elements, be
they criminals,  armed resistance groups, clans, tribes, or neighborhood
associations, exert  various degrees of control over portions of the city.
Intercity, city-state,  and even international commercial transactions
occur, but corruption, avarice,  and violence are their hallmarks. A feral
city experiences massive levels  of disease and creates enough pollution to
qualify as an international  environmental disaster zone. Most feral cities
would suffer from massive  urban hypertrophy, covering vast expanses of
land. The city's structures  range from once-great buildings symbolic of
state power to the meanest  shantytowns and slums. Yet even under these
conditions, these cities continue  to grow, and the majority of occupants
do not voluntarily leave.5

Feral cities would exert an almost magnetic influence on terrorist
organizations.  Such megalopolises will provide exceptionally safe havens
for armed resistance  groups, especially those having cultural affinity
with at least one sizable  segment of the city's population. The efficacy
and portability of the most  modern computing and communication systems
allow the activities of a worldwide  terrorist, criminal, or predatory and
corrupt commercial network to be  coordinated and directed with equipment
easily obtained on the open market  and packed into a minivan. The vast
size of a feral city, with its buildings,  other structures, and
subterranean spaces, would offer nearly perfect protection  

FBI Keeping Records on Pre-9/11 Travelers

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050115/D87K6FAG3.html

My Way News

FBI Keeping Records on Pre-9/11 Travelers

Jan 14, 7:45 PM (ET)

By LESLIE MILLER



 WASHINGTON (AP) - If you're among the millions of Americans who took
airline flights in the months before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,
the FBI probably knows about it - and possibly where you stayed, whom you
traveled with, what credit card you used and even whether you ordered a
kosher meal.

 The bureau is keeping 257.5 million records on people who flew on
commercial airlines from June through September 2001 in its permanent
investigative database, according to information obtained by a privacy
group and made available to The Associated Press.

 Privacy advocates say they're troubled by the possibility that the FBI
could be analyzing personal information about people without their
knowledge or permission.

 The FBI collected a vast amount of information about millions of people
with no indication that they had done anything unlawful, said Marcia
Hofmann, attorney with the Electronic Privacy Information Center, which
learned about the data through a Freedom of Information Act request.

 The fact that they're hanging on to the information is inexcusable,
Hofmann said on Friday.

 FBI spokesman Bill Carter said the bureau was required to retain its records.

 There are rules that have been set by the National Archives with regard
to the retention of records by government agencies, Carter said.

 Hofmann, though, said the FBI still had a legal responsibility to tell
people that it had obtained information about them and to let them have
access to it.

 As part of its investigation into the terrorist attacks, the FBI asked
for, and got, the records from a number of airlines shortly after Sept. 11.
The FBI also got one set of data through a federal grand jury subpoena.

 The privacy center in May requested records of the FBI's acquisition of
the data. The bureau last week turned over 12 pages of information, much of
it blanked out for security reasons.

 The 12 pages do show that the bureau obtained 82.1 million passenger
manifests, or lists of people who flew on planes, between January and
September 2001, in addition to the 257.5 million passenger name records.

 Citing privacy concerns, the FBI didn't reveal which airlines turned over
the information, which airline employees turned it over and which FBI
special agents got it.

 The data are called passenger name records, or PNR, and can include a
variety of information such as credit card numbers, travel itineraries,
addresses, telephone numbers and meal requests.

 David Hardy, the FBI's chief of the record/information dissemination
section of the records management division, said in a legal document dated
Jan. 5 that the data were being stored and combined with other information
from the Sept. 11 investigation, dubbed PENTTBOMB.

 I have been advised that the Airline Data Sets have been entered by the
Cyber Division into a 'Data Warehouse' and have been intertwined for
analytical purposes with the information from several other PENTTBOMB Data
Sets, Hardy wrote in a statement to the U.S. District Court for the
District of Columbia, where the privacy center filed its suit.

 Hofmann, the attorney for the privacy group, said the FBI had a legitimate
reason for collecting information to get a better picture of the hijackers'
travel patterns and possible associates.

 But, she said, it wouldn't seem that there's any reason to keep that
information now.

 The FBI's Carter said he couldn't comment on what may be happening to the
data because the bureau is involved in a lawsuit by the privacy center.

 Daniel Solove, a George Washington University Law School professor and
author of a book on privacy, said not enough is known about what the FBI is
doing with the data to determine if there is a problem.

 Data just sits around and who knows what people are doing with it?
Solove said. The public is left completely out of the loop, not told what
this data is for. The agency is basically saying 'Trust us.'

 Solove suggested there was irony in Congress last year ordering the FBI to
more quickly purge information obtained in background checks of gun buyers.
That, he said, can be useful in tracking down criminals.

 Congress wants to protect guns at great cost, but when it comes to
privacy and civil liberties generally, it doesn't register on the same
level, Solove said.

 ---

 On the Net:

 Electronic Privacy Information Center: http://www.epic.org

 FBI: http://www.doj.gov

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Re: Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

2005-01-14 Thread Justin
On 2005-01-14T16:54:32-0500, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
 
 http://www.wnbc.com/print/4075959/detail.html
 Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

I care?  Well, perhaps I do... I should go pick one up before they're
banned.

  The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the five-seven --
 is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal

The name is Five-seveN.  It's made by Fabrique Nationale (FN).

Allegedly the U.S. secret service likes the Five-seveN, along with the
FN P90 (unavailable to civilians except title 2 firearms dealers because
it's only made in a select-fire version).  They both use the same 5.7mm
rounds, which makes logistics easier.  Of course, they also use MP5s and
9mm handguns...

Other guns with civilian-legal armor-piercing ammo include the CZ-52,
.223 pistols, and most all rifles.

 At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the
 five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police
 vest. All three penetrated the vest.

The real ammo penetrates CRISAT/PAGST armor at 100m and 300m
respectively.  Level 2 or 3a armor is really rather pathetic.

 Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to
 protect the public and protect themselves.

Police have no duty to protect the public.  Anyway, most of the public
doesn't walk around wearing vests, so protecting the public from these
is no different than protecting them from other firearms.  Protecting
the police from these is no different than protecting them from rifles.
Only trauma plates can stop pointy, high-velocity rounds.

 This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With
 the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something
 considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop
 this round, Scinto said.

Cool, more LEOs instantly recognizable as beetles, having exoskeletons.
I recommend Kafka's Metamorphoses to them as sociological grounding for
what sort of reaction they can expect.

-- 
War is the father and king of all, and some he shows as gods, others as men; 
some he makes slaves, others free. -Heraclitus 53



Mo Money Mo Problems. Bring on the Problems

2005-01-14 Thread Imogene Helms
Legal Loopholes Exposed

College Degrees=Bachelors, Masters  Doctorates

Boost your CV, Resume or Prestige Now by throwing us a call 
B1.206_666-6485/B

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Re: Ridge Wants Fingerprints in Passports

2005-01-14 Thread Justin
On 2005-01-13T17:46:39-0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
 
 He's smearing his sticky fingerprints all over everything else,
 and now he wants them in our passports?
 Oughtta learn to keep his hands to himself.

Fine with me if the first person to get a new biometric passport gets
Ridge's fingers as part of the deal -- to verify for the world that the
prints are valid.

-- 
War is the father and king of all, and some he shows as gods, others as men; 
some he makes slaves, others free. -Heraclitus 53



Re: Searching with Images instead of Words

2005-01-14 Thread Sarad AV
hi,

They had been researching on this line in Indian
Institue of Science, Bangalore. I think image
searching has fundamental limits. For  successfully 
matching two images, there should be a subset of
information in both that totally match or match with a
high probability.

Expecting a front view of an image to match with a
side view of the same image is impossible. They are
both disjoint sets of information.

If all the images are frontal images, we can match
them with a hight probability, otherwise I doubt this
technology has a future.

Sarad.


--- Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Link:
 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/13/184226
 Posted by: CmdrTaco, on 2005-01-13 20:29:00
 
from the blessing-for-those-who-can't-spell dept.
[1]johnsee writes A computer vision researcher
 by the name of Hartmut
Neven is [2]developing ingenious new technology
 that allows the
searching of a database by submitting an image,
 for example, off a
mobile phone camera. Imagine taking a photo of a
 street corner to find
out where you are, or the photo of a city
 building to see its history
 
IFRAME: [3]pos6
 
 References
 
1. http://www.sandstorming.com/
2.

http://www.thefeature.com/article?articleid=101341ref=5147543
3.

http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2936alloc_id=13732site_id=1request_id=9329739
 
 - End forwarded message -
 -- 
 Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a

__
 ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144   
 http://www.leitl.org
 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443
 8B29 F6BE
 http://moleculardevices.org
 http://nanomachines.net
 

 ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature 





__ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 



Re: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

2005-01-14 Thread Bill Stewart
At 12:30 PM 1/12/2005, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if the man doesn't need a warrent
to place a surveilance device, shouldn't it be within your rights
to tamper with, disable or remove such a device if you discover one?
Do you mean that if you discover an unsolicited gift of
consumer electronics attached to your car,
do you have the right to play with it just as you would if
it came in the mail?  I would certainly expect so...
On the other hand, if it appears to be a lost item,
you could be a good public citizen and take it to the police
to see if anybody claims it...
GPS tracker is an ambiguous description, though.
GPS devices detect where they are, but what next?
A device could record where it was, for later collection,
or it could transmit its position to a listener.
Tampering with existing recordings might have legal
implications, but putting a transmitter-based system
in your nearest garbage can or accidentally leaving it in a taxi
or mailing it to Medellin all seem like reasonable activities.



Bill Stewart  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Re: Brin needs killing, XIIV

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
At 10:05 AM +0100 1/14/05, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Brin needs killing, XIIV

er, Eleventy Four? Fifteen the hard way?

;-)

Cheers,
RAH
Who was backhanded once for calling Brin a statist in public...
-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



RE: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

2005-01-14 Thread Trei, Peter
Bill Stewart wrote:

 At 12:30 PM 1/12/2005, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
 Just out of curiosity, if the man doesn't need a warrent
 to place a surveilance device, shouldn't it be within your rights
 to tamper with, disable or remove such a device if you discover one?
 
 Do you mean that if you discover an unsolicited gift of
 consumer electronics attached to your car,
 do you have the right to play with it just as you would if
 it came in the mail?  I would certainly expect so...

Attaching it to another car would seem a suitable prank -
someone who travels a lot, on an irregular path - a pizza
delivery guy, or a real estate agent. Or perhaps a long
distance truck.

It would take some chutzpa, but tacking onto a cops
car would send a message

Peter Trei




Re: Florida man faces bioweapon charge

2005-01-14 Thread Justin
On 2005-01-13T17:48:13-0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
 
 RAH pastes:
 
  She said that on at least one occasion he showed her something he had
  purchased via the Internet and expressed concern that if their cat
  inadvertently ate enough of it, the cat would die, according to the
  affidavit.
 
 Obviously this news story is the grand prize winner in an innuendo 
 contest.

The article also neglects to mention FEDERAL AGENCIES' pet KILL ratio.
I'm not sure about cats specifically, but dog killing is quite popular.

  The FBI is still investigating who sent two letters that contained ricin in
  2003 through the U.S. postal system. Those letters contained threats and
  complaints about labor regulations in the trucking industry.

Evidently the kid was in possession of Envelopes of Mass Destruction as
well as castor beans, guns, and books.  Envelopes!  Everyone knows that
civilized people communicate via instant/text message or email (insofar
as they are distinct).  We have no need for these ENVELOPES, which as
well as being used to send toxins to KILL LAW-ABIDING TAXPAYERS also
cause untold annual economic damage from paper-cut-caused hospital
visits.

  In 1978, Georgi Markov, a Bulgarian writer and journalist in London, died
  after a man attacked him with an umbrella that had been rigged to inject a
  ricin pellet under his skin.
 
 And WTF does this have to do with the guy with the castor beans?

I spot the beginnings of yet another war.  Please excuse me while I go
bury my umbrellas.  PATRIOTS use hooded raincoats.  We have no NEED for
barbaric and dangerous implements like UMBRELLAS.

 Looks like Ricin Theatre has joined Anthrax Theatre in the armory of 
 Weapons of Mass Deception.

You forgot the guns!  The GUNS!  Those terrible and bloody implements of
death ARE totally unnecessary!  Never mind that they're PERFECTLY LEGAL
and they don't make ricin (excuse me, castor beans) any more deadly.  He
still had guns!

-- 
War is the father and king of all, and some he shows as gods, others as men; 
some he makes slaves, others free. -Heraclitus 53



Re: Brin needs killing, XIIV

2005-01-14 Thread Steve Thompson
To leave the attributions and headers, or not?  

 --- Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 - Forwarded message from David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
 
 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 04:02:03 -0500
 To: Ip ip@v2.listbox.com
 Subject: [IP] more on   No expectation of privacy in public?
  In a pig's eye!

 Thank you and best wishes - Josh
 
 
 Josh, thanks for sharing these remarks about privacy.
 Alas, these folks are falling for the usual trap that
 has snared so many well-meaning people for the last
 decade.  They are right to worry about creeping Big
 Brotherism... and vigorously defending the wrong
 stretch of wall.

I was naive once too.  
 
 What weird reflex is it, that makes bright people fall
 for the trap of seeing SECRECY as a friend of freedom?

As we all know, 'freedom' is a value-neutral term when 
used on it's own, without a suitable modifier, as in
the above.

 (Oh, when it's YOUR secrecy you call it privacy.) To

I imagine that most people, in the fuzzy space of
colloquial conceptions, associate 'privacy' with the
information security of their own lives, and associate
`secrecy' with the concealment of corporate or government
information, processes, and assets.  But we may use the
terms interchangeably if it makes you happy.  

To wit: I have secrets which I would like to keep 
from malicious criminals and other government workers.

 rail against others seeing, without suggesting  any
 conceivable way that
 
 (1) the technologies could be stopped or
 (2) how it would help matters to stop govt
 surveillance even if we could.
 
 As I've emphasized in The Transparent Society, the
 thing that has kept us free and safe has been to
 emphasize MORE information flows.  To
 ENHANCE how much average people know.

Ok, that is a nice idea but...
 
 http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm
[skimmed]

Given the information-centric disparity that already
exists between individuals of varying allegiance or
association, how is it possible to assure that most
everyone is brought up to speed on the current state-
of-the-art in the numerous fields of study and 
technology that relate to intelligence and counter-
intelligence in such a way as to make the playing
field level for all?  As it stands, with the mutability
inherent in the acquisition and interpretation of 
signals and surveillance data, it is too easy for 
large masses of people to acquire widespread mis-
conceptions about the veracity of the information
at their disposal.  Put another way: hypothetical 
well-organised dis-information sophisticates could
in theory arrange to give the masses a false 
sense of security and inclusiveness within a subtly
fraudulent framework of public-mediated surveillance
and information sharing.  Perhaps this could be 
arranged by building backdoors and covert access
points in the public surveillance network which 
would allow the 'cabal' to diguise their activities
while also permitting them to arbitrarily muck
about with the publically availble data, subject only
to constraints imposed by the actual state-of-the-art --
enhanced on a practical level by virtue of limiting
in some ways the technology available to the masses.

If that makes sense to you, then it should become 
obvious that certifying the `public surveillance 
network' free compromise by privilaged elites of
any kind becomes a very difficult task.  And as we
all know, groups like the NSA and their foreign 
counterparts already enjoy an indeterminate lead
on the public in areas of interest and relation to
information technology and surveillance.  So, how do
we as average citizens mitigate the threat of being
lulled into a false sense of security by the flashy
newness of some kind of hypothetical BrinWorld 
public surveillance and sharing network?

Clearly this is a large problem, and I certainly don't
have the answer.  But, I think the idea of BrinWorld is 
the correct approach, and obviously some very intelligent
people think so too.  I would refer to the paper entitiled
The Weapon of Openness, by Arthur Kantrowitz, which
approaches this issue from a more general perspective.   

Most likely, there is a solution that we all can live 
with.  Avoiding the risks will, however, be rather
difficult.  Personally, I wouldn't mind too much living 
in a total surveillance world if I were assured that
everyone else was subject to the same level of scrutiny. 
This is primarily because I don't engage in activities 
which are particularly shameful or which are dependent
upon the immoral or wanton explotation and subversion 
of another person's right to pursue interests that
do not harm others.  I am fully aware that a great
many people do engage in such activities, some of 
which are cultural rites or religious rituals that
are validated by the tacit legitimacy given to them
by a tyrranical majority.  And then there are people 
who live off the avails of crime because they find 
that 

Re: Searching with Images instead of Words

2005-01-14 Thread Tyler Durden
Expecting a front view of an image to match with a
side view of the same image is impossible. They are
both disjoint sets of information.
If all the images are frontal images, we can match
them with a hight probability, otherwise I doubt this
technology has a future.
You are applying pure logic to a very complex subject. I'd bet this is 
already routinely done by TLAs and whatnot, at least as a pre-screen before 
human photograph inspectors.

The most obvious hole in your statement is with respect to 2D Spatial FFTs 
of the image...you can probably greatly increase your match probability via 
certain masking criteria applied to the 2D FFT. And from there there's lots 
of stuff that can be done with colors and other indirect stuff such as 
(perhaps) camera signatures in the photo (eg, If there's text that says 
Hamamatsu Synchroscan Streak Camera then don't bother doing the FFT--it 
ain't a picture of your dog).

Look...a human being can recognize the side image of a person a lot of the 
time. There should be no reason this intelligence can't be encoded somehow.

-TD



Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

2005-01-14 Thread R.A. Hettinga
http://www.wnbc.com/print/4075959/detail.html

wnbc.com

Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun


NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement
regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest
useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.

New Gun Frightens Police
Scott Weinberger

 The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the five-seven --
is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal

It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go
public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon
begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger.
They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand
what they call the most devastating weapon they face.

The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds
without reloading.

This would be devastating, said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City
Police Department.

Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued
by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy
believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total
disadvantage.

Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame, Troy said.

Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As
NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State
Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of
these handguns during a recent arrest.

Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one
that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a
ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us, said Glenn Byrnes,
of the Trumball Police Department.

However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead,
gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian
bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.

At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the
five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police
vest. All three penetrated the vest.

The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both
layers.

In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest.
While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and
an officer would likely have survived the assault.

The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's
what had me concerned, Scinto said.

FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, Most
law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a
ballistic vest.

When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson
said: We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor.

Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to
protect the public and protect themselves.

This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With
the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something
considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop
this round, Scinto said.

In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will
step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.

This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes
out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers, Troy
said. I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the
civilian public.

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



Re: Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

2005-01-14 Thread Bill Stewart
At 01:54 PM 1/14/2005, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
http://www.wnbc.com/print/4075959/detail.html
NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement
regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest
useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.
...
The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds
without reloading.
A couple of questions to the gunpunks out there...
I've heard that rifles easily penetrate bullet-proof vests,
and that vests are really only useful against average-to-small handguns
and against shotguns.  Is this accurate?
Any idea how much you can saw off a rifle
and still have it penetrate typical cop vests?
(And I assume the 20 rounds in seconds is just a scary way to say
it has a big magazine and you have to pull the trigger 20 times.)
Also, the police expressed worry that criminals might hear about
these guns and then the cops would be in big trouble.
Sounds silly to me - while some criminals might buy a
cop-killer handgun for bragging rights,
random criminals presumably only buy weapons useful for the
scenarios they imagine being in,
which is Saturday Night Specials for most applications,
or whatever currently fashionable Mac10/Uzi/etc.
for druglord armies that expect to be shooting at each other,
or rifles for distance work and dual-use pickup-truck decoration.
Do many criminals expect to initiate shootouts with vest-wearing cops
in scenarios where a rifle isn't practical?
Do most cops wear bullet-proof vests regularly other than in
holdup/hostage SWAT situations, where the criminal might have rifles anyway,
and where a regular pistol is just fine for shooting hostages?
Or is this mainly a problem for the cases when cops want to stage
military-style pre-dawn assaults on people's houses,
where they expect that the targets usually only have
pistols handy near the bed and don't have time for rifles?
Seems like scare-mongering to me, not a practical concern.



Bill Stewart  [EMAIL PROTECTED]