Re: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Black Unicorn wrote: I would be amused to see one of these cloistered techies in a real encounter with police, who recognize that the best legal argument they The only serious encounter I would risk with anything, is by means of anonymized (including resistance to trace analysis) physical proxy. So the threshold is pretty high. Who do you think we are, marines?
Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
- Original Message - From: Trei, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Black Unicorn' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: RE: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday) From: Black Unicorn[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Exercise your right to free speech. Do it carefully. Use a spotter, protective equipment, and enlist a trained coach. Translate as: Use a lawyer, anonymous remailer, and enlist a PR expert. Good advice in either example.
RE: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
-- From: Black Unicorn[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Exercise your right to free speech. Do it carefully. Use a spotter, protective equipment, and enlist a trained coach. Do warm up exercises first :-) Peter
Re: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Black Unicorn wrote: Translate as: Use a lawyer, anonymous remailer, and enlist a PR expert. Good advice in either example. That's pretty constrained 'free speech'. -- Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: Exercise your right to free speech. Do it carefully. Not carefully. Wisely. And what pray tell is 'wisely'? -- Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
- Original Message - From: Subcommander Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday Black Unicorn Scribed: Adobe- owing to the kidnapping of its big wig some time ago- is very paranoid. Please be aware and be cautious as they may be prone to overreact to taunting. (Do not taunt happy-fun-acrobat). Someone answered: This looks like a joke. If so, it is really hilarious, but otherwise sorry. I replied: Unfortunately it's not. At 10:03 AM 7/21/01 -0700, Morlock Elloi replied: So Adobe thugs will pour out of the building sprayng crowd with machine-gun fire ? Corporate commandos will make arrests and cart them to software sweatshops ? What exactly peaceful banner-carrying demonstrators on the public grounds should be afraid of ? Quite a lot actually. This is why I like most cypherpunks. They have the most charming naiveté about the real world. It's quaint. I see it most often in their propensity to argue to most obscure technical-legal points with the full expectation that a judge isn't just going to say that's specious counselor, have any real arguments? I love hearing things like: Well if I just have the micromint transfer all its money to itself first then that's legally a transaction, right? or I'm not transferring the e-gold to the user, I'm transferring it to his key, so there are no taxes! or Sorry your honor, I used key splitting to put the key in 4 jurisdictions so I can't recover the critical financial data under subpoena. Now you have to send me home. Hee hee! The second most frequent expression of this kind of sheltered thinking is in the political-societal belief that there is no such thing as street justice in the United States and that officers aren't prone to poke the odd protestor with a nightstick in any country except Mexico or India or the Middle East or some other far away and out of sight place. But this is AMERICA! or But I'm an AMERICAN! Good morning. How was your sleep? I would be amused to see one of these cloistered techies in a real encounter with police, who recognize that the best legal argument they have on the street is a good whack to opposing counsel's head and that about the most serious ramifications of this might be that the protestor gets off scott free after 48 hours in holding with the gang bangers. It's pretty easy to get arrested in a protest situation. Life is manifestly unfair to arrestees. You decide what you want to do about it. Adobe is a large and influential company in the Valley. It may very well be responsible for getting the Commissioner of Labor in California removed from office simply because they disagreed with his ruling on forced vacations for their employees. Adobe's co-founder is easily spooked and Adobe has had it's run-ins with violence before. This event is well publicized and Adobe knows its coming. Draw your own conclusions about how Adobe might prepare. What would you do in Adobe's place? (I know you are suddenly tempted to come up with a witty reply. It's a rhetorical question, smartass). Here is an article on the kidnapping of Adobe co-founder Chuck Geschke: http://www.losaltosonline.com/latc/arch/9742/Exclusiv/1adobe/1adobe.html An excerpt: It was supposed to be a normal day at the office for Adobe Systems president Charles Chuck Geschke when he pulled into the parking lot of his Mountain View headquarters on May 26, 1992. Instead, his kidnapping at gunpoint by two Arabic men began a five-day nightmare in which Geschke was blindfolded and unaware of his location. His frantic family, in the meantime, enlisted the help of the FBI in a search that was the biggest of its kind since the kidnapping of Patti Hearst. Chuck's rescue was triggered by daughter Kathy's drop-off of ransom money and her negotiations with the captors. The news of the kidnapping made headlines all over the world. The family, still, has not fully recovered from the emotional harm. [...] To this day, [Chuck] still has flashbacks when he drives into a parking lot void of cars or people. And he has replayed his capture dozens of times, both during and after captivity, questioning his decision to obey the armed stranger. The nightmares, which continue to this day, were just the start of a whole new deck of fears the family had to deal with once they returned to Los Altos after their month retreat. Chuck's insecurities about his safety invaded all aspects of his life. The 6-foot, 1-inch, 220-pound Chuck now scares easily. I see someone walking or parking in front of the house and I try to notice if there is anything suspicious about it. I never, never had that feeling ever in my life before. I've always been a very open person, never felt any physical fear of any kind, he said. end excerpt. Following the kidnapping Adobe made such substantial changes to security that employees jokingly, and not so
Re: Adobe's Teeth. (Was: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday)
At 01:43 PM 7/21/2001 -0700, Black Unicorn wrote: - Original Message - From: Subcommander Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [free-sklyarov] Re: Rallies on Monday What exactly peaceful banner-carrying demonstrators on the public grounds should be afraid of ? Quite a lot actually. This is why I like most cypherpunks. They have the most charming naiveti about the real world. It's quaint. I see it most often in their propensity to argue to most obscure technical-legal points with the full expectation that a judge isn't just going to say that's specious counselor, have any real arguments? I love hearing things like: Well if I just have the micromint transfer all its money to itself first then that's legally a transaction, right? or I'm not transferring the e-gold to the user, I'm transferring it to his key, so there are no taxes! or Sorry your honor, I used key splitting to put the key in 4 jurisdictions so I can't recover the critical financial data under subpoena. Now you have to send me home. Hee hee! The second most frequent expression of this kind of sheltered thinking is in the political-societal belief that there is no such thing as street justice in the United States and that officers aren't prone to poke the odd protestor with a nightstick in any country except Mexico or India or the Middle East or some other far away and out of sight place. But this is AMERICA! or But I'm an AMERICAN! Good morning. How was your sleep? I would be amused to see one of these cloistered techies in a real encounter with police, who recognize that the best legal argument they have on the street is a good whack to opposing counsel's head and that about the most serious ramifications of this might be that the protestor gets off scott free after 48 hours in holding with the gang bangers. It's pretty easy to get arrested in a protest situation. Life is manifestly unfair to arrestees. You decide what you want to do about it. A lesson not lost of The Founders, many who paid with their lives and their fortunes even if they did keep their sacred honor. Even if you are non-violently demonstrating BU is correct that you still may pay a heavy price. You need to decide before you demonstrate: how important this issue you're protesting is, how far you're willing to take your protests and what you may be risking in doing so. Then make preparations accordingly. All Western countries fear losing the support of their middle class, tax paying, citizens. To the extent that the Vietnam demonstrations succeeded it was because they were able to elicit police riots in response to what many felt were mostly non-violent (if not legal) demonstrations and swing public opinion. Of course, the release of the Pentagon Papers, which credibly confirmed \what many of the demonstrators had been saying of U.S. goals and involvement in S.E. Asia, didn't hurt either. steve
