Re: Why you keep losing to this idiot
I think this is the answer: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. Isn't that what Democracy is all about? The 51% simpletons imposing their will on the 49% non-simpletons? Proportional representation is our friend. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Re: This Memorable Day
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Tyler Durden wrote: Well, this may actually be less hard than we thought. Indeed, it's the one vaguely silver lining in this toxic cloud. Outsourcing to India will actually add a lot to world stability. Of course, we'll loose a lot of jobs in the process, but in the long run we'll eventually have another strong trading partner like Japan or France or the Dutch. Bush will sell us out to big business and all of the less-well-off will suffer like crazy in the process, but it will actually make things better in the long run. The only thing we need to worry about is not melting the ice caps in the process. You forget that Bush and his cronies are Evangelical Christians. They believe that the world is going to end *soon* and that it is a good thing. These are people who are doing everything they can to make the world a less stable place because in doing so they bring about armagedon. (Then Jesus will come back and they will be rewarded for bringing about the deaths of billions. Sometimes i wonder if they worship Jesus or Cthulhu. (Maybe they are the same. How else could he walk on water?) -- Q: Why do programmers confuse Halloween and Christmas? A: Because OCT 31 == DEC 25.
Re: the new Keyser Sose (was Re: Do androids dream of electric camels?)
Not sure if the old Keyser Sose was limping or not, but he came out last week to give George Bush's campaign a helpful Booga booga booga to remind the sheeple that he's still there. Bush's speech had bragged that Osama could run, but he can't hide, and Kerry neglected the chance to remind the public that Osama ran, and he's hidden real well, and that Bush has been too busy with the war on Saddam to bother catching him.
Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yesid=5652 HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944 Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal It's Time to Reconfigure the United States by Mike Thompson Posted Nov 3, 2004 [From the author: This is an essay I've been working on for the past several weeks, updated moments ago with what appears to be Bush's final number of victory states (31) once the nonsense of provisional votes in Ohio is overcome. As an admitted modest proposal (a la Swift's satiric story of the same name), it is nevertheless serious in pointing out the cancer that continues to threaten our body politic.] Branded unconstitutional by President Abraham Lincoln, the South's secession from the American Union ultimately sparked The Civil War (a name that was rejected by Southerners, who correctly called it The War Between the States, for the South never sought to 1] seize the central government or 2] rule the other side, two requisites for a civil war). No state may leave the Union without the other states' approval, according to Lincoln's doctrine--an assertion that ignores the Declaration of Independence, which was the vital basis for all 13 American colonies' unilateral secession from the British Union eight decades earlier. Lincoln's grotesque legal argument also disregards a state's inherent right of secession which many scholars believe is found in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Meantime, America has become just as divided as it was a century and a half ago, when it writhed in Brother-vs.-Brother War. Instead of wedge issues like slavery, federal subsidies for regional business, and high tariffs, society today is sundered by profound, insoluble Culture War conflicts (such as abortion and gay marriage), and debate about our role abroad (shall we remain the world's leader, or become an unprincipled chump for the cabal of globalist sybarites who play endless word-games inside the United Nations and European Union sanctuaries?). For many decades, conservative citizens and like-minded political leaders (starting with President Calvin Coolidge) have been denigrated by the vilest of lies and characterizations from hordes of liberals who now won't even admit that they are liberals--because the word connotes such moral stink and political silliness. As a class, liberals no longer are merely the vigorous opponents of the Right; they are spiteful enemies of civilization's core decency and traditions. Defamation, never envisioned by our Founding Fathers as being protected by the First Amendment, flourishes and passes today for acceptable political discourse. Movies, magazines, newspapers, radio/TV programs, plays, concerts, public schools, colleges, and most other public vehicles openly traffic in slander and libel. Hollywood salivated over the idea of placing another golden Oscar into Michael Moore'sfat hands, for his Fahrenheit 9/11 jeremiad, the most bogus, deceitful film documentary since Herr Hitler and Herr Goebbels gave propaganda a bad name. When they tire of showering conservative victims with ideological mud, liberals promote the only other subjects with which they feel conversationally comfortable: Obscenity and sexual perversion. It's as if the genes of liberals have rendered them immune to all forms of filth. As a final insult, liberal lawyers and judges have become locusts of the Left, conspiring to destroy democracy itself by excreting statutes and courtroom tactics that fertilize electoral fraud and sprout fields of vandals who will cast undeserved and copious ballots on Election Day. The truth is, America is not just broken--it is becoming irreparable. If you believe that recent years of uncivil behavior are burdensome, imagine the likelihood of a future in which all bizarre acts are the norm, and a government-booted foot stands permanently on your face. That is why the unthinkable must become thinkable. If the so-called Red States (those that voted for George W. Bush) cannot be respected or at least tolerated by the Blue States (those that voted for Al Gore and John Kerry), then the most disparate of them must live apart--not by secession of the former (a majority), but by expulsion of the latter. Here is how to do it. Having been amended only 17 times since 10 vital amendments (the Bill of Rights) were added at the republic's inception, the U.S. Constitution is not easily changed, primarily because so many states (75%, now 38 of 50) must agree. Yet, there are 38 states today that may be inclined to adopt, let us call it, a Declaration of Expulsion, that is, a specific constitutional amendment to kick out the systemically troublesome states and those trending rapidly toward anti-American, if not outright subversive, behavior. The 12 states that must go: California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Maryland, and Delaware. Only the
Re: This Memorable Day
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 R.A. Hettinga: Are you high, junior? Or is it just your politics that sound so... sophomoric? Communism, Fuck Yeah!!! States are People Too Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. (Euripides) You too. Sad it is. Howcome the Americans became so egocentrical and cynical that anyone who dares to speak up and support compassion for his fellow man automatically is a communist? It's a sincere question, no doubt in my mind that we won't get a sincere answer though. Reading your email actually reminds me of those of Tim May, he also seemed to be full of bigotry and hatred and deeply disliked anyone who were unfortunate enough to be poor. Our culture -- yours, too, bunky, since I bet you don't shit into a hole in the floor and pray 5 times a day for, as Hanson appropriately No I don't shit into a hole, but I can still try to be unbiased and extend a though or two to other people who are not so fortunate as we are to be born in the rich part of the world. Ah. That's right. I'm not nuanced enough. It's too *complicated* for anyone who didn't take your sophomore (cryptomarxist) History Studies class, or whatever. Please. To me it's enough to at least try to understand and try live by the spirit of the Bible. It's also quite ironical that all those right wing voters actually read communist propaganda in church, since that is the logical conclusion of your arguments made here. There we go. Wisdom from a thug. How about this thug, instead, kid, quoted just about as much out of context as you have yours: When the hares made speeches in the assembly and demanded that all should have equality, the lions replied, Where are your claws and teeth? -- attributed to Antisthenes in Aristotle, 'Politics', 3.7.2 Oh. That's right. One shouldn't read Aristotle. He was a White Male Oppressor... You like quotes, ok here I have a small collection for you, maybe one or two of them qualifies as white oppressors too, I don't know. Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. (Nietzsche) An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens. (Thomas Jefferson) I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts. (Abraham Lincoln) It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. (Voltaire) What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? (Mahatma Gandhi) Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. (Martin Luther King) Sheesh. When will September ever end? In my calendar it's November already, I don't know about yours. Johnny Doelittle -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: Tom Ridge Special v1.01 iQA/AwUBQYoOvDVaKWz2Ji/mEQLUvgCfZJiR4Nmtvpe00RHmsfJujf1opfYAn289 PIgwc3xyE+/RolLAFBqAc6Ks =cwYX -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: the new Keyser Sose (was Re: Do androids dream of electric camels?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 4:43 PM -0800 11/3/04, Bill Stewart wrote: Not sure if the old Keyser Sose was limping or not, but he came out last week to give George Bush's campaign a helpful Booga booga booga to remind the sheeple that he's still there. Karl Rove did it. Walter Cronkite says so. [Bwahahahaha!] Bush's speech had bragged that Osama could run, but he can't hide, and Kerry neglected the chance to remind the public that Osama ran, and he's hidden real well, and that Bush has been too busy with the war on Saddam to bother catching him. Two words, Bill: Whitey Bulger. Boo! Mirthfully yours, RAH Glee. It's not just for breakfast, anymore. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBQYmR38PxH8jf3ohaEQItdwCggwC+AQIB1gCdz1WSAcan9IAjVWwAn3rQ Uzn3hZfNOEn8x7P2fqT7Bk5v =O7v+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: This Memorable Day
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James A. Donald: You are quite right, it is unjust that people like Bin Laden are so immensely rich with oil wealth. To remedy this problem, Bush should confiscate the Middle Eastern oil reserves. You are using stale old communist rhetoric - but today's terrorists no longer not even pretend to fight on behalf of the poor and oppressed. This was quite lame and doesn't really deserve a response. To label any argument that points out the obvious circumstance that injustice feeds hatred as communist propaganda, is really only ridiculous, even if it's also dangerously incompetent and as such no real laughing matter. Why do you mention Bin Laden anyway? There are thousands of bigger and smaller groups around the world (they exists in every country more or less) that we'd label as terrorists in the western part of the world. You think every one of these hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of recruits and followers are millionaires? Fantastically lame comment to a real and important issue. Should we take you seriously when you write these childish rants? I don't know what to fear the most, the dangerous ignorance of those of your kind or what dictatorial rulers may accomplish using your ignorant kind as followers who do not question the truths from the authorities. Hitler did it in the 30's election where some 37% voted for the nazis, in a democratic multi-party election I might add. Some of the ingrediences present then in Hitler's rhetoric are also present today in Bush's rhetoric, even though I don't mean to make the comparison . We just cannot afford to be this naive. I can't help thinking about the fact that we usually portray Americans as a religious and church going people. Perhaps some 25% attend church on a somewhat regular basis. To make matters worse those people seem to vote for Bush(?). One can't help wonder if they're literate and if they actually read the bible and it's message of love, understanding, forgiveness and compassion for their fellow man. May god bless the world, we may need it. Johnny Doelittle Men willingly believe what they wish. (Julius Caesar) There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity. (von Goethe) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: Tom Ridge Special v1.01 iQA/AwUBQYoO4jVaKWz2Ji/mEQKzWACfTEUN6ENT9/kbzMEOQVuvM4txtpIAnRI2 pU5RbBMeBggUCWf2ZW4rBQYG =EiIW -END PGP SIGNATURE-
campus network admins
I recently violated the network user agreement (they packet-sniffed and got the username/password for my FTP server and didn't like what I was sharing with myself) and was informed by the admin that I am now 'under observation' and that they hope I don't like privacy. Considering this admin was an NSA employee, I tend to take that threat a little seriously. Two questions: 1) I'm assuming they can legally look at anything that comes in or out of my computer, but is that the case? Can they look at my computer itself, or take me off the network for the private contents of my computer? 2) Is there some sort of service I can use to have everything I do on the network encrypted, such as a tunneling service to the internet? ~ This message was sent from The Tedious Path Are you ready to travel The Tedious Path? http://www.tediouspath.com http://forum.tediouspath.com
Re: This Memorable Day
James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When it came to the part of the war that was purely a public good, conquering the German and Japanese homelands, America did indeed bear almost the whole burden, but when it came to defending Australia against the Japanese, the Australians bore the major burden, and similarly for most other battlefields outside of the aggressors' homelands. Nonsense. The Russians (for example) conquered Hitler's capital, Berlin. And I believe the Russian zone in Germany was larger than any of the others, reflecting the fact that Stalin bore most of entire burden of defeating Germany, uncomfortable as it may be. -- Tiarnán
the new Keyser Sose (was Re: Do androids dream of electric camels?)
At 8:34 PM + 11/3/04, POPBITCH wrote: Hardline Honeyz 2 Al Zarqawi: the unusual suspect Mysterious Jordanian celebrity executioner Abu Musab Al Zarqawi is a huge hit with lovers of Hardline Honeyz. With a $25m price tag on his head, al Zarqawi shot to fame as the star of Sheik Abu Musab Al Zarqawi slaughters an American infidel with his own hands, a video showing the death of Iraq hostage Nicholas Berg. But is Al Zarqawi for real? A Jordanian of that name did fight in Afganistan in the 80s and in Kurdish Iraq in the 90s, with a group called Ansar al-Islam, but no more was heard of him until Colin Powell's famous warmongering speech to the UN named him as the link between Saddam and Osama. Since then Al Zarqawi has become a mythic bogeyman blamed for almost every real or imagined terrorist threat. *Suddenly he was al-Qaeda's bioterrorism expert and head of terror camps in Saddam-era Iraq; he'd never previously been linked to either. * US intelligence experts say Berg's executioner clearly didn't have a Jordanian accent. * Iraqi insurgents claimed Al Zarqawi was dead, and all new captured operatives from Ansar al-Islam say they've never laid eyes on him. * CIA said he only had one leg after an operation in Baghdad, but since the executioner in the video clearly had two they now say, er, he has two after all. So... Al Zarqawi: he's the new Keyser Sose. -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: This Memorable Day
James A. Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it is hardly a matter of holding out. So far the Pentagon has shattered the enemy while suffering casualties of about a thousand, We're talking about different things, the War on Bogeymen vs. the War for Oil. In its war on bogeymen, the most notable thing the USG has achieved to date is to create vastly more of them. Its strategy is about as effective as the paras were on Bloody Sunday, i.e. its actions serve mostly as a recruitment drive for the opposition: I swear by Almighty God [...] to fight until we die in the field of red gore of the infidel tyrants and murderers. Of our glorious faith, if spared to fight until not a single trace is left to tell that the Holy soil of our country was trodden by these infidels. Also these robbers and brutes, these unbelievers of our faith, will be driven into the sea, by fire, the knife or by poison cup until we of the true faith clear these infidels from our lands. (Whoever wrote the original was definitely no English lit major). Peter.
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 23:30 -0500, R.A. Hettinga wrote: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yesid=5652 HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944 Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal It's Time to Reconfigure the United States Chuckle-worthy, if not outright funny. Interestingly, I could see a liberal making exactly the same case, but without the ad hominem attacks. -- Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not It's just this little chromium switch, here. - TFS SpamAssassin-procmail-/dev/null-bliss http://www.rant-central.com
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
John Young wrote: A map of the expulsion civil war declaration: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/ninjagurl/new_map.jpg There seems to be an assumption that Alaska will be included in Jesusland. Whoever is advancing this theory clearly never lived in Alaska (or if they did, only lived in Anchorage, which isn't *really* Alaska). -- Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not It's just this little chromium switch, here. - TFS SpamAssassin-procmail-/dev/null-bliss http://www.rant-central.com
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
A map of the expulsion civil war declaration: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/ninjagurl/new_map.jpg
Re: Why you keep losing to this idiot
On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 14:01 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote: I think this is the answer: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. Isn't that what Democracy is all about? The 51% simpletons imposing their will on the 49% non-simpletons? Proportional representation is our friend. Kornbluth was right. -- Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not It's just this little chromium switch, here. - TFS SpamAssassin-procmail-/dev/null-bliss http://www.rant-central.com
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 00:20:05 -0500, Roy M. Silvernail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuckle-worthy, if not outright funny. Interestingly, I could see a liberal making exactly the same case, but without the ad hominem attacks. Like calling Bush an idiot? That door swings both ways. -- Pete Capelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.capelli.org PGP Key ID:0x829263B6 Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
At 8:31 AM -0500 11/4/04, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: There seems to be an assumption that Alaska will be included in Jesusland. Whoever is advancing this theory clearly never lived in Alaska (or if they did, only lived in Anchorage, which isn't *really* Alaska). Ahhh... Los Anchorage. It's just most of the people there, of course. Cheers, RAH Who went to Fairview and Roger's Park elementary, and Wendler Jr. Hi., while his old man built 1500sf tract houses on spec, and then an apartment complex or two, before he retired to Hillsboro, NM, pop 19. Anchorage was too *big*, you see... -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
I expect quite a few of us in the Northeast would be happy to join with Canada. It might be problematic that DC went blue :-) On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yesid=5652 HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944 Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal It's Time to Reconfigure the United States by Mike Thompson Posted Nov 3, 2004 [From the author: This is an essay I've been working on for the past several weeks, updated moments ago with what appears to be Bush's final number of victory states (31) once the nonsense of provisional votes in Ohio is overcome. As an admitted modest proposal (a la Swift's satiric story of the same name), it is nevertheless serious in pointing out the cancer that continues to threaten our body politic.] Branded unconstitutional by President Abraham Lincoln, the South's secession from the American Union ultimately sparked The Civil War (a name that was rejected by Southerners, who correctly called it The War Between the States, for the South never sought to 1] seize the central government or 2] rule the other side, two requisites for a civil war). No state may leave the Union without the other states' approval, according to Lincoln's doctrine--an assertion that ignores the Declaration of Independence, which was the vital basis for all 13 American colonies' unilateral secession from the British Union eight decades earlier. Lincoln's grotesque legal argument also disregards a state's inherent right of secession which many scholars believe is found in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Meantime, America has become just as divided as it was a century and a half ago, when it writhed in Brother-vs.-Brother War. Instead of wedge issues like slavery, federal subsidies for regional business, and high tariffs, society today is sundered by profound, insoluble Culture War conflicts (such as abortion and gay marriage), and debate about our role abroad (shall we remain the world's leader, or become an unprincipled chump for the cabal of globalist sybarites who play endless word-games inside the United Nations and European Union sanctuaries?). For many decades, conservative citizens and like-minded political leaders (starting with President Calvin Coolidge) have been denigrated by the vilest of lies and characterizations from hordes of liberals who now won't even admit that they are liberals--because the word connotes such moral stink and political silliness. As a class, liberals no longer are merely the vigorous opponents of the Right; they are spiteful enemies of civilization's core decency and traditions. Defamation, never envisioned by our Founding Fathers as being protected by the First Amendment, flourishes and passes today for acceptable political discourse. Movies, magazines, newspapers, radio/TV programs, plays, concerts, public schools, colleges, and most other public vehicles openly traffic in slander and libel. Hollywood salivated over the idea of placing another golden Oscar into Michael Moore'sfat hands, for his Fahrenheit 9/11 jeremiad, the most bogus, deceitful film documentary since Herr Hitler and Herr Goebbels gave propaganda a bad name. When they tire of showering conservative victims with ideological mud, liberals promote the only other subjects with which they feel conversationally comfortable: Obscenity and sexual perversion. It's as if the genes of liberals have rendered them immune to all forms of filth. As a final insult, liberal lawyers and judges have become locusts of the Left, conspiring to destroy democracy itself by excreting statutes and courtroom tactics that fertilize electoral fraud and sprout fields of vandals who will cast undeserved and copious ballots on Election Day. The truth is, America is not just broken--it is becoming irreparable. If you believe that recent years of uncivil behavior are burdensome, imagine the likelihood of a future in which all bizarre acts are the norm, and a government-booted foot stands permanently on your face. That is why the unthinkable must become thinkable. If the so-called Red States (those that voted for George W. Bush) cannot be respected or at least tolerated by the Blue States (those that voted for Al Gore and John Kerry), then the most disparate of them must live apart--not by secession of the former (a majority), but by expulsion of the latter. Here is how to do it. Having been amended only 17 times since 10 vital amendments (the Bill of Rights) were added at the republic's inception, the U.S. Constitution is not easily changed, primarily because so many states (75%, now 38 of 50) must agree. Yet, there are 38 states today that may be inclined to adopt, let us call it, a Declaration of Expulsion, that is, a specific constitutional amendment to kick out the systemically troublesome states and
Re: campus network admins
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently violated the network user agreement (they packet-sniffed and got the username/password for my FTP server and didn't like what I was sharing with myself) and was informed by the admin that I am now 'under observation' and that they hope I don't like privacy. Considering this admin was an NSA employee, I tend to take that threat a little seriously. Depending on how trivial the violation was, it may be worth checking the FTP server logs, identifying the bad ones and collecting the evidence, and eventually, preferably after consultation with a lawyer, nail the admin with hacking charges. (Alternatively just threat with the same, with a remark that you hope he likes lawyers. I suppose you're located in the Land of Lawyers.) If it is better to play a repentant sinner, or go to a confrontation, depends on many more factors unknown to us, including the exact text of the network AUPs, the personality profile of the admin (he may be just power-tripping at you, but the severity of his threats depends on the exact content of your disk which you didn't specify), and other factors like if you are an employee or a student and how much risk you want to go through. Violating AUPs with cleartext protocols isn't a good idea, especially with nazi admins. Next time you may like to prefer ssh/scp, or WebDAV over HTTPS, or a simple password-protected upload/download interface written in PHP or as a CGI script, again over HTTPS (you may like to use one-time passwords for added security). If the admin in question can have physical access to your machine, put the sensitive/objectionable data on an encrypted partition. Two questions: 1) I'm assuming they can legally look at anything that comes in or out of my computer, but is that the case? Can they look at my computer itself, or take me off the network for the private contents of my computer? That depends a lot. If you're in a suitable uni campus, you may try to consult with local law students. This question is something a mere technician can't reliably answer. 2) Is there some sort of service I can use to have everything I do on the network encrypted, such as a tunneling service to the internet? Yes. Depends on what you want to do; if you want to be independent on any special software installed on the computers you're operating from, I suggest a HTTPS server, with a self-signed certificate (cheaper), and manually check its fingerprint when connecting. For upload you may use a web file upload form. Don't neglect the certificate check; the admin may like to start playing games with you and launch MITM attack at your connections. Do the fingerprint check even when the browser claims all is OK. ~ This message was sent from The Tedious Path Are you ready to travel The Tedious Path? http://www.tediouspath.com http://forum.tediouspath.com
RE: Your source code, for sale
Hum. So my newbie-style question is, is there an eGold that can be verified, but not accessed, until a 'release' code is sent? In other words, say I'm buying some hacker-ed code and pay in egold. I don't want them to be able to 'cash' the gold until I have the code. Meanwhile, they will want to see that the gold is at least there, even if they can't cash it yet. Is there a way to send a 'release' to an eGold (or other) payment? Better yet, a double simultaneous release feature makes thing even more interesting. -TD From: R.A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your source code, for sale Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:24:43 -0500 http://www.adtmag.com/print.asp?id=10225 - ADTmag.com Your source code, for sale By Mike Gunderloy Well, maybe not yet. But what does the future hold for those who consider their source code an important proprietary asset? Halloween this year featured more scary stuff than just ghosts and ghouls. It was also the day (at least in the Pacific time zone) when the Source Code Club posted their second Newsletter in a public Usenet group. Despite their innocent-sounding name, the Source Code Club is a group of hackers who are offering to sell the source to commercial products. Their current menu of source code for sale looks like this: * Cisco Pix 6.3.1 - $24,000 * Enterasys Dragon IDS - $19.200 * Napster - $12,000 They also claim to have the source code for many other packages that they haven't announced publicly. If you are requesting something from a Fortune 100 company, there is a good chance that we might already have it, they say. Now, you might think this business is blatantly illegal, and no doubt it is. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. They're posting their newsletter to Usenet, probably from an Internet cafe somewhere, so that's not traceable. They'll take orders the same way, and require orders to be encrypted using their PGP key, which is at least reasonably unbreakable at the moment. (As of this writing, I don't see any encrypted messages posted to the newsgroup they use, though). For payment, they're using e-gold, which claims to protect the anonymity of its account holders. Now, it seems reasonably likely that the Source Code Club folks will eventually get caught; going up against Cisco's resources displays at least a strong conviction of invulnerability. But even if these guys get caught, there are deeper issues here. Ten years ago, no one could have dreamed of trying to set up such a business. Ten years from now, advances in cryptography, more forms of currency circulating on the Internet, and improvements in anonymity software are likely to make it impossible to catch a similar operation. What will it mean when hacker groups can in fact do business this way with impunity? First, it's important to note that the ability to sell wares anonymously won't necessarily imply the ability to get inventory. Your best defense against having your own source code leaked is to pay careful attention to its physical security. These days, if I were developing an important commercial product, I'd make sure there was no path between my development or build machines and the public Internet. Hackers can do lots of things, but they still can't leap over physical disconnections. Second, I'd use software that prevents temporary storage devices (like USB sticks) from connecting to the network, and keep CD and DVD burners out of the development boxes as well. It's also worth making sure that your business doesn't depend entirely on source code. While the intellectual property that goes into making software is certainly a valuable asset, it shouldn't be your only asset. Think about ancillary services like training, support, and customization in addition to simply selling software. Finally, note that the Source Code Club business model is based on taking advantage of people wanting to know what's in the software that they purchase. About the pix code, they say Many intelligence agencies/government organizations will want to know if those 1's and 0's in the pix image really are doing what was advertised. You must ask yourself how well you trust the pix images you download to your appliance from cisco.com. Microsoft (among other companies) has demonstrated how to remove this particular fear factor from customers: share your source code under controlled circumstances. That doesn't mean that you need to adapt an open source model, but when a big customer comes calling, why not walk their engineers through how things work and let them audit their own areas of concern? Given the shifting landscape of intellectual property, and the threat from groups such as the Source Code Club, these are matters you need to think about sooner rather than later. Otherwise you may wake up some morning and find that your major asset has vanished without your even knowing it was in danger. Mike Gunderloy, MCSE, MCSD
RE: Your source code, for sale
Tyler Durden writes: So my newbie-style question is, is there an eGold that can be verified, but not accessed, until a 'release' code is sent? In other words, say I'm buying some hacker-ed code and pay in egold. I don't want them to be able to 'cash' the gold until I have the code. Meanwhile, they will want to see that the gold is at least there, even if they can't cash it yet. Is there a way to send a 'release' to an eGold (or other) payment? Better yet, a double simultaneous release feature makes thing even more interesting. I've been thinking about how to do this kind of thing with ecash. One project I'm hoping to work on next year is a P2P gambling game (like poker or something) using my rpow.net which is a sort of play-money ecash. You'd like to be able to do bets and have some kind of reasonable assurance that the other guy would pay up if he loses. In the case of your problem there is the issue of whether the source code you are buying is legitimate. Only once you have inspected it and satisfied yourself that it will suit your needs would you be willing to pay. But attaining that assurance will require examing the code in such detail that maybe you will decide that you don't need to pay. You could imagine a trusted third party who would inspect the code and certify it, saying the source code with hash XXX appears to be legitimate Cisco source code. Then they could send you the code bit by bit and incrementally show that it matches the specified hash, using a crypto protocol for gradual release of secrets. You could simultaneously do a gradual release of some payment information in the other direction. If you don't have a TTP, one idea for using ecash is Markus Jakobsson's Ripping Coins for a Fair Exchange. Basically you withdraw ecash from your account and in effect rip it in half and give half to the seller. Now he gives you the product and you give him the other half of the coin. The idea is that once you have given him the ripped ecash (torn would be a better word because ripping means something else today), you are out the value of the cash. You have no more incentive to cheat, as giving him the other half won't cost you anything additional. (Even without ecash, a service like egold could mimic this functionality. You'd create an escrow account with two passwords, one known to each party. Only with both passwords could data be withdrawn from the account. Then the buyer would transfer funds into this account. After receiving the goods, the buyer would send his password to the seller.) The problem is that if the source code you are purchasing is bogus, or if the other side doesn't come through, you're screwed because you've lost the value of the torn cash. The other side doesn't gain anything by this fraud, but they harm you, and if they are malicious that might be enough. And likewise you might be malicious and harm them by refusing to give them your half of the coin even after you have received the goods. Again, this doesn't benefit you, you're still out the money, but maybe you like causing trouble. Another idea along these lines is gradual payment for gradual release of the goods. You pay 10% of the amount and they give you 10% of the source code. You pay another 10% and you get the next 10% of the source, and so on. (Or it could be nonlinear; maybe they give out half the code for free, but the final 10% requires a large payment.) The idea is that you can sample and make sure they do appear to have the real thing with a fairly small investment. If there is some mechanism for the seller to have a reputation (like Advogato's perhaps, with some spoofing immunity) then the problem is easier; the seller won't want to screw buyers because it hurts his rep. In that case it may be reasonable to ask the buyer to pay in advance, perhaps using the partial payment system just discussed. These various ideas all have tradeoffs, and in general this kind of problem is hard to solve because of the complexity of what constitutes a successful transaction. A reputation system helps a great deal to resolve the issues, but opens up problems of its own. The betting problem I want to work on is relatively easy because there is no ambiguity about who wins, but even then it is hard to make sure that neither party can maliciously harm the other. Hal F.
