Re: Intel Adds DRM to New Chips part 2
DiSToAGe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it seems now intel say there is no DRM in there chips. No, it's very careful to say that there is no *unannounced* DRM in their chips, in the same way that we have had no undetected penetrations of our security. Peter.
Re: /. [Intel Adds DRM to New Chips]
DiSToAGe wrote: not a backdoor, we forget to much that every system is only 1 and 0 through electricity and physical circuits. If you can make them you can watch them (with time and monney i agree). Perhaps thinking that datas (certs, instructions) can be hidden behind a physical thing is only a dream ? I ask myself if not every cryptosystem where you must have something hidden or physically not accessible in point of the process is not sure ? In theory the above is absolutely correct. In practice, it's extremely difficult to properly implement an accurate enough emulator, however as an emulator writer you have far more advantages than disadvantages despite the 10-100x in slowdown. (Speaking from personal experience - no, nothing on the kind of scale we're talking about here.) You can always have your virtual CPU decide that when it sees a certain instruction, to disobey it. For example, when it sees a checksum check, to decide to jump around it and so forth. Gotta love it when you can fool a program into thinking that 2+2=5 and that everything is still A-OK with that! ;-) If you can interface with real (protected) hardware, you might even be able to get around public key schemes with the emulator. HP/Agilent made some wonderful logic analyzers, which are very useful against ancient hardware (think Motorola 68K chips at around 5MHz) too bad nothing in the GHz range is (cheaply?) available out there, but there's lots that can be done. What can be done? For example, if you have something like Palladium or whatever it's called these days, you an always build a machine that has custom RAM that can change at the flip of a switch - sort of like the old EEPROM emulators, but with RAM chips that can be flipped to a ROM instead. You flip a switch after the DRM core has validated your BIOS and operating system, and at some point once the CPU cache gets drained, it winds up running code that it did not boot, code which you've written to do *OTHER* things for example - simply change the IRQ vectors to point to your code and you've taken over... Mind you, all this is easier said that done, but it is possible to implement. Remember, security is a chain, and each (media?) player out there is a link in that chain. It only takes one broken player to wipe out your entire investment in that DRM pipe dream. Any employee with access can leak the master keys and the game is over. Any wily hardware hacker with plenty of time on his hands can take a shot at reverse engineering any (media) player to the point of cracking it, etc. In the end, it's a waste of time and money for the makers of DRM as there's enough interest that someone somewhere will break it at some point in the near future. You can play cat and mouse games by watermarking the output with the serial # of the player in order to lock out cracked players, but the attacker only has to break more than one player (perhaps two different models so they get both serial # and model #) and compare the resulting outputs from the same movie to figure out which bits contain the watermarks. XOR is very nice for figuring this out. :-) None of this worries me, because I don't give a rats ass about copying movies or what not. Couldn't care less about it. I'll wait for the shit to make it to HBO, it's usually not worth watching the waste of Hollywood plotless overhyped crud anyway, so why worry about copying it? The few titles that are worth watching, are also well worth buying, and after a few months they can be had for under $20, so why bother? What is cause for worry is that it's quite _possible_ for Intel or other chip manufacturers to insert backdoors in their hardware which someone will go through the trouble of discovering, which does put everyone at risk. No matter how good your operating system and firewall rules, if your network card (and drivers) decide to bend over upon receiving a specially crafted packet, you're owned just the same. Mind you, I've never run across anything close to this, except perhaps the old F00FC7C8 bug in the original pentium (which really was a DOS, not a back door) and the old UltraSparc I in 64 bit mode multiuser hole. The Pentium IV hyperthreading bug is something recent to worry about along the same line of thought. Sadly, you haven't got much choice in this matter, you have to assume that you can trust the hardware that you run on (unless you're willing to make your own and have the resources to do so, etc.)
Intel Adds DRM to New Chips part 2
it seems now intel say there is no DRM in there chips. Earlier FUD ? marketing tactic ? desire to hide truth to public as discussed before ? http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/05/1833241
Re: /. [Intel Adds DRM to New Chips]
Eugen Leitl wrote... Online activation of software is already quite widespread, so it seems customers are willing to accept restriction to ownership and use. Well, that's an interesting phenomenon. In industrialized nations where the price of software is fairly low compared to the wages, people seem somewhat willing to pay. At least, we don't see ticket sales for big movies going down at all. So it could be that people will eventually voluntarily release control, as long as the consequences (ie, prices) aren't too high. On the other hand, the whole P2P phenomenon is not happening simply because people don't want to pay. Stupid industry execs will probably continue churning out the same stupid shit they always did and P2Pers will find some way around their protection if needs be.
Re: /. [Intel Adds DRM to New Chips]
On 2005-05-28T21:53:52+0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/28/1718200 Posted by: Zonk, on 2005-05-28 17:37:00 from the get-you-where-you-live dept. Badluck writes Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel Corp. now embedding [1]digital rights management within in its latest dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset. Officially launched worldwide on the May 26, the new offerings come [2]DRM -enabled and will, at least in theory, allow copyright holders to prevent unauthorized copying and distribution of copyrighted materials from the motherboard rather than through the operating system as is currently the case... [3]The Inquirer has the story as well. Is slashdot really a news source? How about posting one of the articles cited instead. -- Unable to correct the source of the indignity to the Negro, [the Phoenix, AZ public accommodations law prohibiting racial discrimination] redresses the situation by placing a separate indignity on the proprietor. ... The unwanted customer and the disliked proprietor are left glowering at one another across the lunch counter. -William Strom Rehnquist, 1964-06-15
Re: /. [Intel Adds DRM to New Chips]
On Sat, May 28, 2005 at 11:26:28PM -0400, Tyler Durden wrote: (Continued) Contrary to expectations, however, sales of the chip have been suprisingly low, with zero interest shown by major PC manufacturers. One major PC industry executive, who wished to remain anonymous sated: There are 100s of millions of people trading files every day throughout the globe. I'm going to start using this chip and give up that market because...? What actually seems to be happening is that chipset DRM is being deployed silently, though not on a wide scale yet, and but for game consoles in a facultative version. Of course, such dormant DRM can be activated with subsequent software upgrades (watch the sneaky software-DRM games Cupertino plays). The billion dollar question is: will users let themselves lock in into the DRM prison, just because of a dangling premium content carrot, and the I gots your IP, my lawyers 0wnZ0r Ur 455 litigation stick? We're going to see soon, as HDTV on BluRayCo is going to be that experiment. The next-generation signal lanes to display devices are encrypted, so there's only the analog hole left to the naive user. Online activation of software is already quite widespread, so it seems customers are willing to accept restriction to ownership and use. OK, Gov officials will eventually start trying to introduce laws mandating such technologies be used, but by then it's going to come down to a battle of lobbies: The Entertainment industry vs Telecom+PCs++Software. Which can pump dollars into Senatorial hands faster? The entertainment industry has an order of magnitude less funds, but seems to spend them far more efficiently. Also, the Far East market is increasingly supplying itself, so Hollywood has less and less angle there. Let US and EU get the crippleware, while the rest of the world gets swamped with plaintext pirated copies (a single break is enough). -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
RE: /. [Intel Adds DRM to New Chips]
Eugen Leitl wrote... from the get-you-where-you-live dept. Badluck writes Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel Corp. now embedding [1]digital rights management within in its latest dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset. Officially launched worldwide on the May 26, the new offerings come [2]DRM -enabled and will, at least in theory, allow copyright holders to prevent unauthorized copying and distribution of copyrighted materials from the motherboard rather than through the operating system as is currently the case... [3]The Inquirer has the story as well. (Continued) Contrary to expectations, however, sales of the chip have been suprisingly low, with zero interest shown by major PC manufacturers. One major PC industry executive, who wished to remain anonymous sated: There are 100s of millions of people trading files every day throughout the globe. I'm going to start using this chip and give up that market because...? OK, Gov officials will eventually start trying to introduce laws mandating such technologies be used, but by then it's going to come down to a battle of lobbies: The Entertainment industry vs Telecom+PCs++Software. Which can pump dollars into Senatorial hands faster? -TD
