Re: Cypherpunks Europe
L** G*** is a nice man. He wrote that the Cult of the Dead Cow were a bunch of barely literate mindless American teenage delinquents. Ken This statement is surprisingly close to the truth. In top black hat circles CDC people were always viewed as joke. They were loosely tolerated because they claimed to also share this view and were incapable of gaining turf. Their recent attempts at producing something other than publicity for their drinking antics, while noble, is clearly the work of idiot savantism. New recruits may have some hidden qualities, but all the CDC founders are deeply thick. -- Julian Assange|If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and [EMAIL PROTECTED] |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless [EMAIL PROTECTED] |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
Re: Odp: Cypherpunks Europe
Jan Dobrucki wrote: World, this is the USA, USA, this is The World. Now that you know each other, start thinking in a more broad perspective, please. Blow me. /s/ An Ugly American -- Steve FurlongComputer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Re: Odp: Cypherpunks Europe
On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Blow me. Troll, and ye shalt be heard. Seriously, while the relationship between furriners and merkins has been notoriously strained, might there not be need for a cpunx-europe@? For regional announcements, and such. English to be preferrable mode of communication, but occasional multilingual excursions could be perhaps tolerated (yes, even frogspeak). The rationale is to mutually decouple regionally and politically local babble. Who feels compelled to keep track of everything, can always subscribe to a yet another list. What say ye, Eurotrash?
Re: Odp: Cypherpunks Europe
Eugen Leitl wrote: On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Blow me. Troll, and ye shalt be heard. Seriously, while the relationship between furriners and merkins has been notoriously strained, might there not be need for a cpunx-europe@? For regional announcements, and such. English to be preferrable mode of communication, but occasional multilingual excursions could be perhaps tolerated (yes, even frogspeak). The rationale is to mutually decouple regionally and politically local babble. Who feels compelled to keep track of everything, can always subscribe to a yet another list. What say ye, Eurotrash? Wouldn't get me anywhere, since I'd be on both lists... Cheers, Ben. -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html http://www.thebunker.net/ There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit. - Robert Woodruff
Re: Cypherpunks Europe
I don't think you get freelance IRA guys. Not with both kneecaps, anyway. might be surprised - donations from the states have apparently tailled off (having been the subject of a terrorist attack themselves they seem less willing to fund them) and they could do with the revenue - but you are probably better off talking with the dodgier firms in london - the prices will be better and they will do a more professional/painful job. The price improvement is because reusable sledgehammers are cheaper than having to dispose of a gun ;) L** G*** is a nice man. He wrote that the Cult of the Dead Cow were a bunch of barely literate mindless American teenage delinquents. If they lived in England they could possibly sue him for that :-) Maybe they could anyhow - juristiction shopping isn't exclusive to LG. In fact, I am sure half the list will chip in a tenner or so each to help out the legal fees ;)
Re: Cypherpunks Europe
Tim May wrote: Not sure about the rest of europe - but we have a targetted crypto list in the UK (UKCrypto, sensibly enough) so already have a forum for uk-specific issues. Thats not to say some of it wouldn't be better here - but I am sure our problems with .. [name elide to prevent His search engines from finding text with His name in it and then threatening legal action.] Well, he's not quite as bad as Sr Ac used to be. Do you mean _Him_? He indeed means Dr. L G* a long-time reader of, and spasmodic contributor to, the UKcrypto Cyber-rights-UK mailing lists. Has recently been the main troll in sidelining a thread on something I've forgotten about into a rehash of censorship/anti-censorship arguments. I once followed-up to a post mentioning Him and received many threatening e-mails demanding that I cancel my post and inform Google that it was to be removed forthwith or both Google and myself and my ISP would face massive legal attack. He makes anti-Choatian category errors - sort of I understand physics therefore I understand ethics|law|politics|society - delete as appropriate. The main one being that he really seems to think that if something is against the law then it shouldn't happen, and that it can be prevented. Ah, I remember - the thread was about Deutsche Bahn suing ISPs who allowed links to websites purporting to contain instructions for disabling German railways. I was tempted to tell him, and his lawyers (er, barristers) to fuck off. Lawyers will do. Barristers are professional advocates, lawyers who plead in court. Very unlikely to be writing cease-and-desist letters. In England retail lawyers are solicitors. Either than or to hire a freelance IRA guy to blow him up. I don't think you get freelance IRA guys. Not with both kneecaps, anyway. L** G*** is a nice man. He wrote that the Cult of the Dead Cow were a bunch of barely literate mindless American teenage delinquents. If they lived in England they could possibly sue him for that :-) Ken
Re: Re: Odp: Cypherpunks Europe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Greetings. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 28 Apr 2002 at 22:26, Jan Dobrucki wrote: and third, Americans say, respect human rights, when the US hasn't signed any conventions protecting human rights, because if it did, it would have to stop sending people to death row. Yet oddly, the people drawing up these conventions were not restrained from using slave labor, terror against their subjects, mass murder of political opponents, etc. Yes you are correct. The US did participate in the creation but it didn't sign it. And this is Europe 21st century. We don't do that sort of thing anymore. We Europeans. At least those that I know of. Yes, ex-Yugoslavia could be an exception, but there was a civil war going on. Apart from that all nations have their dark past. It just depends if it comes out, when and if it ever ends. Jan Dobrucki -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 Comment: information is ammunition iQEVAwUBPM3kww/jCFZJN2XlAQF64Qf/cXlIeS7csH7G6zCyOvF08h3bX9DoNLZd xyVe7HlRvaU0RNBwJFOGw0e4xUQLDB+1cbzIvmpTSAic4imyBCbUaHS5NG2XQFrg /UkS5CAT9jZK9D4Eoogt86LvRk6QzB7TFAjVhbosoMfvMeDib9DjPZ+WaKt3lXLG o2FGToyOQ3Acmf+EBIaBQVseDEEnUPTNYF2vKlrsyjNEqeaTwuUOv13v+njQIBtN D7MWMhwU4RJDETfFI61DjpNPWIaqdUsgbHxDmLVmBaGtH/xy9KbKr4BGKNPA ERk60UkX0Sn1FVOg1LXH+O1PYFfda/+qOpxgsojl41s6tX4B7rjv3A== =o4GQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Siedzisz i czytasz... a tam ktos wlasnie wykupuje Twoj urlop! http://link.interia.pl/f15b1
Cypherpunks Europe
Greetings, I've been reading the list for a while now, and what I find annoying is that there are mostly American news and little about what's happening in Europe. As little as I respect America, America is not all of the world. Come on Cypherpunks from Europe, make your presence noticed! Jan Dobrucki Wladca Pierscieni. Plyty, kasety, ksiazki do wziecia http://wladcapierscieni.interia.pl/index.html?s=4
Re: Cypherpunks Europe
On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 07:32 AM, Jan Dobrucki wrote: Greetings, I've been reading the list for a while now, and what I find annoying is that there are mostly American news and little about what's happening in Europe. As little as I respect America, America is not all of the world. Come on Cypherpunks from Europe, make your presence noticed! As you note in your last sentence, the lack of discussion of European (*), or Asian, or African news is for Europeans or Asians or Africans to fix. (* As for Europe, we have a fair amount of news from the U.K. Not all consider it part of Europe, though.) In past years there were several people from Germany, Holland, Sweden, etc. on the list. Someone from France (Damien G.) even discovered a major security bug. So, Europe has been well-represented. (Not much now, but, then, the volume of CP postings is way down...the substantive ones, at least.) Oh, and I think there's a guy from Australia still posting on this list. The most obvious reasons there are vastly more articles dealing with U.S.-centered developments are: 1. This is where the vast majority of the subscribers are living. Why more people in Europe are not interested in these issues is something one should ask Europeans about. 2. Physical meetings in the Bay Area are still happening, drawing between 20 and 40 persons per meeting. Some fraction of them are regular posters here. 3. The U.S., like it or not, remains the center of much that is technological, with all of the major PC and computer companies, most of the major software companies, and so on. You are of course welcome to write articles. This is the best fix for How come there are more articles on X? complaints. By the way, local news is not the real purpose of the list, in my opinion. Getting news is best done via browsers and the many hundreds of news outlets. --Tim May The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of. -- Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789
Re: Cypherpunks Europe
On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 07:32 AM, Jan Dobrucki wrote: Greetings, I've been reading the list for a while now, and what I find annoying is that there are mostly American news and little about what's happening in Europe. As little as I respect America, America is not all of the world. Come on Cypherpunks from Europe, make your presence noticed! Not sure about the rest of europe - but we have a targetted crypto list in the UK (UKCrypto, sensibly enough) so already have a forum for uk-specific issues. Thats not to say some of it wouldn't be better here - but I am sure our problems with Godfrey would bore you all to tears anyhow :)
news is irrelevant -- write code not laws (Re: Cypherpunks Europe)
I guess there are a fair number of people from Europe on the list. I think there are a number of UK readers, plus others Tim mentioned. (I'm from the UK, but living in Canada right now). There is a UK crypto list, but it's full of news and legal stuff so relatively uninteresting. But the reason at least from my side that I don't post news is I eschew news of the banal kind such as our resident idiot Jim Choate streams dozens of on a daily basis (I kill-filed him, plus the moderator of the moderated version squashes most obviously idiotic output). I intentionally watch almost no TV, including TV news, or other traditional news. There are perhaps 20-30 news items worthy of comment per year and discussion usually happens here so using traditional media news won't achieve anything apart from wasting your time consuming typically heavily biased, technically confused journalists produce cute sound bites and generally mindlessly regurgitating the party line. I find these days I have such negative views of the bias in the traditional news that it makes me cringe and turn it off. (Irrelevant detour, but every time shrub (aka small Bush -- US president) is broadcast his inarticulate stuttering and inane grin, just causes me to hit the off-switch, the guy seems like a complete moron -- Blair is smug, also with his cheshire cat grin, but at least he is somewhat articulate and can come across intelligently -- shrub is a PR disaster.) So the interesting technical challenges from a cypherpunks write code point of view are already abundabtly clear without more news. You can pretty much rely on the maxim that politicians and the media will achieve the worst legal system for personal liberties in cyberspace, so our job is to build cypherspace where their ill-thought out laws particularly on speech, content, copyright etc largely don't apply. So I'd sooner for example spend time discussing how to design censor resistance, publisher and reader anonymity into a large scale file-sharing or next gen distributed web publishing replacement than for example the on-going burble along the lines gee look what stupid laws the politicians and media are thinking of introducing now. We already know they continue to make stupid laws, our task is to use technology to make their stupid laws as irrelevant as possible. Combing over the details of the political systems stupidity never seemed like a constructive use of time to me. Yes, there are 'Net lobbying groups, but I'm not sure they ultimately achieve anything apart from at best burning resources just acting as a stupidity-brake, and typically worse being sucked into the deals and favors for trade lobbying and bribing-fest. Adam On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 04:32:09PM +0200, Jan Dobrucki wrote: Greetings, I've been reading the list for a while now, and what I find annoying is that there are mostly American news and little about what's happening in Europe. As little as I respect America, America is not all of the world. Come on Cypherpunks from Europe, make your presence noticed! Jan Dobrucki
