Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
At 08:30 PM 10/3/04 +, Justin wrote: On 2004-10-03T13:32:36-0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: The US *is* the Fourth Reich. Personally, I will take what comes. You will make fine soap.
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: NEWARK, Sept. 30 - Laetitia Bohn walked into Newark Liberty International Airport on Thursday, dazed and sleepy after an eight-hour flight from Paris, and was jolted from her reverie when an immigration officer asked for her photograph and fingerprints along with her passport. The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure, the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones). I wonder whether the next step will be building a wall... Peter (who'll be thinking really hard about any future conference trips to the US).
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote: The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure, the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones). I wonder whether the next step will be building a wall... Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant to keep out a demonstrated threat. Now, we can productively discuss the effectiveness of the US government's actions (ie, not very damn effective), but that's a different topic.
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 09:43:04PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: It was more easy to visit before, she said. But I will still come back. Well, no, I won't. (And quite a number of others). No biometrics ID for me either. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgp5sdpQgjYHg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
Steve Furlong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote: The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure, the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones). I wonder whether the next step will be building a wall... Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant to keep out a demonstrated threat. I never made any comment about who's keeping what in or out (the wall was officially an anti-fascist protection barrier, also meant to keep out a demonstrated threat). What I was pointing out was that having been through both East German and US border controls, the US ones were more obnoxious. Peter.
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Steve Furlong wrote: On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote: The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure, the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones). I wonder whether the next step will be building a wall... Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant to keep out a demonstrated threat. (1) There are also a number of non-rebar+concrete walls in place to keep US citizens from leaving; (2) The demonstrated threat folks are not generally the ones being targetted. The US *is* the Fourth Reich. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. Osama Bin Laden - - - There aught to be limits to freedom!George Bush - - - Which one scares you more?
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
On 2004-10-03T13:32:36-0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: The US *is* the Fourth Reich. Personally, I will take what comes. -- The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth, and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails. -- L. Ron Hubbard
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
At 07:22 AM 10/3/2004, Steve Furlong wrote: On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote: The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure, the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones). I wonder whether the next step will be building a wall... There's already a wall / fence built to keep Mexicans out. Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant to keep out a demonstrated threat. They're primarily intended to create a climate of fear and dependence and reassure the American public that the government's in charge. Bill Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
http://nytimes.com/2004/10/01/politics/01airports.html?pagewanted=printposition= The New York Times October 1, 2004 Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag By RACHEL L. SWARNS EWARK, Sept. 30 - Laetitia Bohn walked into Newark Liberty International Airport on Thursday, dazed and sleepy after an eight-hour flight from Paris, and was jolted from her reverie when an immigration officer asked for her photograph and fingerprints along with her passport. The officer took a digital scan of her left index finger, then her right, and then snapped her picture with a tiny camera. The entire process took only a few seconds, but for Ms. Bohn, a 29-year-old tourist from France, it was an unnerving symbol of how much the United States had changed since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. It made me feel kind of guilty, like a prisoner, Ms. Bohn said. You can feel the difference since 9/11. I was in New York seven years ago and people were happy to have visitors. I don't think it's the case anymore. And so the day went - with a click of a camera and sharply conflicting emotions as foreign visitors across the country arrived at American airports, where officials for the first time began photographing and electronically fingerprinting travelers from 27 industrialized nations, including longtime allies like England, France, Germany, Spain, Japan and Australia. The policy shift, which was announced in April and took effect on Thursday, will affect about 13 million visitors each year from 22 European countries as well as Brunei, Singapore, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, who can currently travel to the United States for up to 90 days without a visa. The change was made after intelligence reports indicated that terrorists might take advantage of that provision, which allows travelers from Europe and other industrialized countries to travel to the United States with little scrutiny. Until now, only travelers who needed visas to visit the United States were fingerprinted and photographed at American airports in a program started in January to ensure that suspected terrorists, criminals and violators of immigration law do not enter the country. The program, which is now expected to screen about 20 million foreign visitors at 115 airports and 14 seaports annually, is the latest security measure to affect foreign visitors since the Sept. 11 attacks. Last year, American embassies and consulates around the world began collecting digital fingerprints from foreigners applying for visas. And beginning this fall, officials will require overseas visitors at some airports and seaports to be fingerprinted and photographed before they leave the United States to monitor whether visitors are in fact returning to their home countries. America has been a welcoming country and it continues to be one, but in the post-9/11 era it has been necessary to make sure we know who is traveling to our country, said Commissioner Robert C. Bonner, who directs the customs and border protection unit at the Department of Homeland Security. Reaction from foreign governments was mostly muted. But some officials said the policy raised privacy concerns. Japanese officials said they had asked that the fingerprints and photographs be deleted when their citizens leave this country. We understand the necessity of the U.S.'s new measures, Motohisa Suzuki, who coordinates antiterrorism programs for Japan's Cabinet Office, said on Thursday. But Mr. Suzuki added, We need to be fully discreet about the handling of the private information. Airline and airport officials were bracing for longer lines on Thursday. But customs officials, who surveyed about 20 airports on Thursday afternoon, said that only 40 of the 1,500 flights reported slower than normal waiting times attributed to the new procedures. Officials noted, however, that September was typically a slow month for overseas arrivals and that Thursday was typically a quiet travel day. So far, so good, said Joseph A. Cardinale, acting port director for passport control at the Newark airport. We've had the experience of doing the fingerprints and the photographs for several months now, so it's not new to the officers. That's a tremendous help.'' Tourists greeted the system with a mixture of nonchalance and irritation. Bruce Reid, a 59-year-old doctor from Australia, said he did not object. I haven't got a criminal record, so it doesn't worry me much, said Dr. Reid, who flew into Los Angeles. Marleen Maas, 43, a homemaker from Frankfurt, disagreed. What's next? Are they going to take pieces of my hair, too? asked Ms. Maas, who flew into Miami to visit her daughter. It didn't take long, but it made me feel like a criminal. In Newark, Marc Eisenchteter of Paris said the process moved efficiently. Ms. Bohn agreed and said that despite her misgivings she would still return to the United States. It was more easy to visit before, she said. But I will still come back
Re: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: (1) There are also a number of non-rebar+concrete walls in place to keep US citizens from leaving; Please elaborate?
