Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
On 2004-12-11T06:48:41-0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 09:47 PM 12/10/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: Now we're back to the MixMaster argument. Mixmaster was meant to be a Napster-level popular app for emailing, but people just don't care about anonymity. Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on. Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt. 1. Compile Mixmaster 2. Put the binary in some directory somewhere. 3. Configure Mutt with --with-mixmaster (sadly not enabled by default) 4. add the line 'set mixmaster=/location/to/bin/mixmaster' to .muttrc 5. mkdir ~user/Mix/ 6. Add a script to crontab that does: cd ~user/Mix/ mv -f mlist.txt mlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/mlist.txt mv -f rlist.txt rlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/rlist.txt mv -f pubring.mix pubring.mix.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pubring.mix mv -f type2.list type2.list.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/type2.list mv -f pubring.asc pubring.asc.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pgp-all.asc mv -f pgp-all.asc pubring.asc 6.5. And run it once for good measure. 7. When sending email, at the summary page just before sending, hit 'M'.
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
-- On 11 Dec 2004 at 8:29, J.A. Terranson wrote: Looking out of my fifth floor window I can connect to ~20 802.x nets *without* directional antennas or high powered cards. With extra gear, I can hit almost 50, and in both cases, roughly a third are completely open, another third are trivially protected, and the remaining third have done the best they can under the circumstances This may explain the lack of wardriving. Why bother to drive? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG GZxQHl5Ys94JIEGFGqHzFIw0CwTw+cJrG2kcpVuC 4om0VpAEKeFBIkSSAJXTDq0ocurOXkmRwScqZa3fV
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 12:01 AM 12/13/04 -0600, J.A. Terranson wrote: Interestingly, I don't know of anyone who still actively wardrives at random (as opposed to against specific targets) for this same reason. I've met some people this year who war-fly SoCal: a cessna, laptop, and regular dipole suffices, and a GPS helps with the mapping, but it was only for curiosity's sake, esp given the short time you're in a given net.
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
On Sat, Dec 11, 2004 at 08:17:32AM -0600, Riad S. Wahby wrote: This seems like a peculiarity of your location. Here in Austin almost all of downtown is covered by free wireless. I wonder how much of it is deliberate. I run my AP open for any passerby, and expect similiar in return when I pass through their area. Speaking of wireless, I'm very impressed with LinkSys WRT54GS alternative firmware advances. It's only a question of time before robust ad hoc meshes are available by simply reflashing your AP with alternative firmware. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net pgpupIzHVBEmo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
-- On 10 Dec 2004 at 21:47, Joseph Ashwood wrote: Wardriving is also basically dead. Sure there are a handful of people that do it, but the number is so small as to be irrelevant. I regularly use the internet through other people's unprotected wireless networks, simply for convenience while travelling, not for any stego or anonymity purpose. So do lots of other people. I only target places convenient to tourists and likely to be rich in unprotected networks. Maybe your network is located someplace where it is not worth the trouble to find it. Sometimes I go down the street and steal some bandwidth just because I find it a change to work in the open air. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG hOnTAnMFC4mbjwvyxYfLSmvpUXtw2xutPOvdyU0k 4Jx3r8szirxwjD/2L68Q0/BDk3jSlebytG9a9+2IQ
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 06:01 PM 12/11/04 +, Justin wrote: On 2004-12-11T06:48:41-0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on. Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt. 1. Compile Mixmaster You've already lost 90% of your possible hosts 2. Put the binary in some directory somewhere. 3. Configure Mutt with --with-mixmaster (sadly not enabled by default) 4. add the line 'set mixmaster=/location/to/bin/mixmaster' to .muttrc 5. mkdir ~user/Mix/ 6. Add a script to crontab that does: You're obviously talking about some fringe unix-like OS... 7. When sending email, at the summary page just before sending, hit 'M'. And if you forget then your message is sent to the To: recipient. Nice easy-to-screw-up UI there :-(
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
Major Variola (ret) wrote: Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on. Mixminion is a little better, but needs more market penetration and still has no good client integration. i2p is looking good, since out of the box it comes with proxy pop and smtp servers. The downside is that they proxy to a single mail provider in the i2p cloud. Also, communications outside the cloud isn't a high priority now. But the framework is building. However, both suffer from a J. 6pack problem, because to use either, you have to run a node. Jack B Nymble is complex because as you know, bidirectional pseudonymity is complex. It's the return channel implementation that causes the problems.
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Justin wrote: Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt. 1. Compile Mixmaster 2. Put the binary in some directory somewhere. 3. Configure Mutt with --with-mixmaster (sadly not enabled by default) 4. add the line 'set mixmaster=/location/to/bin/mixmaster' to .muttrc 5. mkdir ~user/Mix/ 6. Add a script to crontab that does: cd ~user/Mix/ mv -f mlist.txt mlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/mlist.txt mv -f rlist.txt rlist.txt.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/rlist.txt mv -f pubring.mix pubring.mix.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pubring.mix mv -f type2.list type2.list.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/type2.list mv -f pubring.asc pubring.asc.old wget -q http://stats.melontraffickers.com/pgp-all.asc mv -f pgp-all.asc pubring.asc You just made my case for me. Joe Sixpack will not wtf you are talking about. Hell, half the RedHat users won't know either (where's the RPM?). -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 10:08 AM 12/11/2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Justin wrote: Not necessarily. Mixmaster is trivial to use with Mutt. 1. Compile Mixmaster . You just made my case for me. Joe Sixpack will not wtf you are talking about. Hell, half the RedHat users won't know either (where's the RPM?). Joe Sixpack got lost at Compile. It's still easier to use than the early versions of FreeS/WAN (First do a clean compile of your kernel...) On the other hand, if you're using Mutt, you're already more complex than Joe Sixpack is likely to use. Also, rather than a virus installer, it'd be interesting if there were an anonymizer package built for Apache. Widespread anonymous web browsing would mean that simple web-based remailers would be easily usable. Bill Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004, James A. Donald wrote: On 11 Dec 2004 at 8:29, J.A. Terranson wrote: Looking out of my fifth floor window I can connect to ~20 802.x nets *without* directional antennas or high powered cards. With extra gear, I can hit almost 50, and in both cases, roughly a third are completely open, another third are trivially protected, and the remaining third have done the best they can under the circumstances This may explain the lack of wardriving. Why bother to drive? Exactly. I also run an open WiFi (labelled as Open Wifi :-) for others, as a payment for those that I use around town. Interestingly, I don't know of anyone who still actively wardrives at random (as opposed to against specific targets) for this same reason. Why bother? The only thing you really *should* have is a high powered card with any reasonably directional antenna (~$120.00usd as a set). That and a laptop and you can run any midsized office that doesn't need to provide services at a fixed IP :-) --digsig James A. Donald -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
- Original Message - From: Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving At 07:47 PM 12/9/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive? Well besides the misinterprettaion of the ruling, which I will ignore, what makes you think MixMaster isn't already dead? OK, substitute wardriving email injection when wardriving is otherwise legal for Mixmastering, albeit the former is less secure since the injection lat/long is known. And you need to use a disposable Wifi card or at least one with a mutable MAC. Wardriving is also basically dead. Sure there are a handful of people that do it, but the number is so small as to be irrelevant. Checking the logs for my network (which does run WEP so the number of attacks may be reduced from unprotected) in the last 2 years someone (other than those authorized) has attempted to connect about 1000 times, of those only 4 made repeated attempts, 2 succeeded and hit the outside of the IPSec server (I run WEP as a courtesy to the rest of the connection attempts). That means that in the last 2 years there have been at most 4 attempts at wardriving my network, and I live in a population dense part of San Jose. Wardriving can also be declared dead. Glancing at the wireless networks visible from my computer I currently see 6, all using at least WEP (earlier there were 7, still all encrypted). I regularly drive down through Los Angeles, when I have stopped for gas or food and checked I rarely see an unprotected network. The WEP message has gotten out, and the higher security versions are getting the message out as well. Now all it will take is a small court ruling that whatever comes out of your network you are responsible for, and the available wardriving targets will quickly drop to almost 0. Wardriving is either dead or dying. Or consider a Napster-level popular app which includes mixing or onion routing. Now we're back to the MixMaster argument. Mixmaster was meant to be a Napster-level popular app for emailing, but people just don't care about anonymity. Such an app would need to have a seperate primary purpose. The problem with this is that, as we've seen with Freenet, the extra security layering can actually undermine the usability, leading to a functional collapse. If a proper medium can be struck then such an application can become popular, I don't expect this to happen any time soon. Joe
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 09:47 PM 12/10/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: Wardriving is also basically dead. On the contrary. A recent article (zdnet IIRC) described a non-hacker visiting his father, and using a neighbor's connection accidentally. This is very common. My own non-tech father regularly finds other nets in his neighborhood, using default apps (not 'Stumbler, etc). Sure there are a handful of people that do it, but the number is so small as to be irrelevant. That 'wardrive' knowing its called that, yes. That do so accidentally, no. Or consider a Napster-level popular app which includes mixing or onion routing. Now we're back to the MixMaster argument. Mixmaster was meant to be a Napster-level popular app for emailing, but people just don't care about anonymity. Mixmaster is the most godawful complex thing to use, much less administer, around. Even Jack B Nymble is complex. It needs a simple luser interface and something to piggyback servers on.
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
Joseph Ashwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I regularly drive down through Los Angeles, when I have stopped for gas or food and checked I rarely see an unprotected network. This seems like a peculiarity of your location. Here in Austin almost all of downtown is covered by free wireless. -- Riad S. Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Riad S. Wahby wrote: Joseph Ashwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I regularly drive down through Los Angeles, when I have stopped for gas or food and checked I rarely see an unprotected network. This seems like a peculiarity of your location. Here in Austin almost all of downtown is covered by free wireless. Looking out of my fifth floor window I can connect to ~20 802.x nets *without* directional antennas or high powered cards. With extra gear, I can hit almost 50, and in both cases, roughly a third are completely open, another third are trivially protected, and the remaining third have done the best they can under the circumstances :-) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
Mixmaster is dead, long live wardriving
At 07:47 PM 12/9/04 -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: If the Klan doesn't have a right to wear pillowcases what makes you think mixmaster will survive? Well besides the misinterprettaion of the ruling, which I will ignore, what makes you think MixMaster isn't already dead? OK, substitute wardriving email injection when wardriving is otherwise legal for Mixmastering, albeit the former is less secure since the injection lat/long is known. And you need to use a disposable Wifi card or at least one with a mutable MAC. Or consider a Napster-level popular app which includes mixing or onion routing.
