Palladium/TCPA/NGSCB

2003-10-23 Thread Bill Frantz
Mark Miller pointed out to me that currently much of our protection from
viruses comes from people at the anti-virus companies who quickly grab each
new virus, reverse engineer it, and send out information about its payload
and effects.  Any system which hides code from reverse engineering will
make this process more difficult.  To the extend that Palladium/TCPA/NGSCB
hides code, and to the extent it succeeds at this hiding, the more it
encourages new and more pervasive viruses.

Cheers - Bill


-
Bill Frantz| There's nothing so clear as a | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | vague idea you haven't written | 16345 Englewood Ave
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Re: Palladium/TCPA/NGSCB

2003-10-23 Thread Major Variola (ret)
At 11:06 PM 10/22/03 -0700, Bill Frantz wrote:
Mark Miller pointed out to me that currently much of our protection
from
viruses comes from people at the anti-virus companies who quickly grab
each
new virus, reverse engineer it, and send out information about its
payload
and effects.

You could be talking about biology as well.

Any system which hides code from reverse engineering will
make this process more difficult.  To the extend that
Palladium/TCPA/NGSCB
hides code, and to the extent it succeeds at this hiding, the more it
encourages new and more pervasive viruses.

A virus that contains friendly IFF codes can evade an immune system.
Some cloak themselves in membranes derived from cells they were born in.

Thus they present the right IFF response.

A virus that appears to Palladium to be friendly and worthy of the full
protection
-the right hashes, etc- will be a fun thing.

Some virii are innocuous except when they pick up a piece of virulence
code.  Then they kill.  IIRC anthrax is like this, some of the streps.
One can imagine writing a virus which is in fact merely a bit of
virulence code taken in by an other innocuous but replicating program.

Its common in biolabs to cross a hard-to-grow nasty with an easy-to-grow

labbug so you can study the nasty.  Sometimes, the result is dangerous.
See
the synthetic mousepox which killed the mice.

And virii that infect the immune system can be fun too --imagine a virus

infecting your antiviral program.  HIV for Windows.



Re: Palladium/TCPA/NGSCB

2003-10-23 Thread Eric Murray
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 11:59:47AM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
 And virii that infect the immune system can be fun too --imagine a virus
 infecting your antiviral program.  HIV for Windows.


Or a virus that modifes your other programs to make them appear to
be known virii.  You'd have to turn off your AV progams
to keep them from destroying your files (or moving them
around, going crazy with warnings when you start any program, etc)

I'd bet that no AV programs have safeguards against this
sort of false positive attack.

Eric