Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
In a message dated 3/30/04 9:54:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: also that Nevada case pending in the Supremes *may* mean that you must present papers. There was also a decision last year IIRC that said that car *passengers* had to show ID if asked. Not drivers, passengers. If you're not the driver and you don't drive you don't have to have an ID. And you can't show what you don't have. In general this is a bad idea however, as it makes you more suspicious to the police. I'm afraid we've entered a new era of police state fascism, and it might be better to appear to be someone else than the fire breathing Sons of Liberty we imagine we are. Regards, Freematt-
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're not the driver and you don't drive you don't have to have an ID. And you can't show what you don't have. IIRC, in the case above the guy was outside his car - his daughter (still in the car) may well have been the driver, not him
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
At 10:22 AM 3/30/2004, Eric Cordian wrote: So of course, society's interest in protecting police officers allows New Orleans police to search your home or business at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. As long as the cop mumbles something about making sure he's safe. The NOLA PD spokescritter said their new powers will be used judiciously, which is an entertaining phrase to use when you really mean without asking a judge. Similarly, society's interest in ensuring the safety of airline passengers allows ID to be demanded and searches, and anyways, your right to freely travel is not being impeded, because there's always Greyhound. Of course, they can stop the bus and search everyone on it at will too. Greyhound demands ID at some locations as well; my brother got surprised when his trip, which hadn't demanded ID on the way out, got routed through Chicago on the return and they did demand ID. These problems stem directly from the horrible mistake, many years ago in the early days of our Republic, of letting what the Constitution says be what the judiciary claims the Constitution says, as opposed to what the Constitution itself states, thus giving the Judicial branch of government absolute power over the Legislative and Executive branches. Marbury vs. Madison was an entertainingly kinky case, but the ability of judges to declare laws or executive actions Unconstitutional and therefore void is the main thing that's made the Bill of Rights effective (to the extent it has been.) The courts have often failed in that duty, but it's rightly theirs. The alternative would be that the Constitution means whatever the executive branch of government says it means, and whatever the legislature says it means, and if the police wanted to keep you in jail and didn't need to obey writs of habeas corpus, you'd rot in jail, and if they didn't feel that they needed search warrants, like they generally didn't before the Exclusionary Rule, they wouldn't bother getting them, and if the legislature wanted to tax something that the Constitution didn't explicitly authorize them to tax, they'd just tax it and you'd have no recourse (ok, that one's not much different than today...) As George Wallace once stated, The country is run by thugs and federal judges. He was one of the thugs, of course...
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
At 04:35 PM 3/30/04 -0600, bgt wrote: You need ID to drive, bus, train, or fly... I guess all that's left is walking and possibly biking. :P The police can ask for ID if you're walking and fit a description (negro in plaid shirt I believe was the instance); also that Nevada case pending in the Supremes *may* mean that you must present papers. There was also a decision last year IIRC that said that car *passengers* had to show ID if asked. Not drivers, passengers. And of course its illegal to lie to pigs. And not vice-versa. Not sure if biking on a road requires ID, but you are subject to traffic law; I knew a guy who got a traffic ticket for running a stop sign. Also bikes may require licenses for $ in some towns. Go for the head shot, they're wearing body armor. --G. Gordon Liddy
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one gets those. But its possible that over-zealous cops could seize your $5000 Lightspeed because it doesn't have a $2 city sticker... for every city you ride through. I managed to get a ticket for riding my bike on the wrong side of the road. When the cop told me he was giving me a ticket, I said to him you're not serious; shouldn't you be out catching criminals or something? He didn't seem to appreciate it. Oh well, fuck him. -- Riad Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIT VI-2 M.Eng
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 06:43:21PM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 04:35 PM 3/30/04 -0600, bgt wrote: You need ID to drive, bus, train, or fly... I guess all that's left is walking and possibly biking. :P Not sure if biking on a road requires ID It doesn't. You'll get harassed by cops if they stop you though. They can't do anything; they're just unhappy about citizens who don't show their papers. , but you are subject to traffic law; I knew a guy who got a traffic ticket for running a stop sign. Also bikes may require licenses for $ in some towns. No one gets those. But its possible that over-zealous cops could seize your $5000 Lightspeed because it doesn't have a $2 city sticker... for every city you ride through. Eric
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
Bill Stewart wrote: Marbury vs. Madison was an entertainingly kinky case, but the ability of judges to declare laws or executive actions Unconstitutional and therefore void is the main thing that's made the Bill of Rights effective (to the extent it has been.) The courts have often failed in that duty, but it's rightly theirs. The alternative would be that the Constitution means whatever the executive branch of government says it means, and whatever the legislature says it means, ... I believe that the intent of the Founding Fathers was that an armed populace would be familiar with the letter of the Constitution, and tolerate no creative reinterpretation of it by any of the three branches of Guv'mint. As George Wallace once stated, The country is run by thugs and federal judges. He was one of the thugs, of course... He rehabiliated himself through terrible suffering, repented his racist views, and made friends with Jesse Jackson. People can change. I can still remember from back in the 60's Mike Wallace reporting with a perfectly straight face on the Negroid Characteristics of some monkey skull found by a archeological expedition. One of the nice things about ignorance is that it is curable. Unlike Neo-Conservatism. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
93: One of the nice things about ignorance is that it is curable. Unlike Neo-Conservatism. Or more accurately - Neo CONfidence artist. Would be nice to turn those into NEO convicts, but we may as well dream of a free country. Many, many, thanks go to Richard Clarke for exposing the truth we all suspected. So, I'm not quite current about the Gilmore dismissal - is the subject line misspelled? Is there some URL regarding news of this? I take it from the gripes that John's lawsuit against Asscruft re: flying without ID was dismissed?
RE: The Gilmore Dimissal
So of course, society's interest in protecting police officers allows New Orleans police to search your home or business at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. As long as the cop mumbles something about making sure he's safe. Actually, this is particularly hilarious. The Cops in New Orleans have become astoundingly corrupt recently, with shootouts between rival factions occuring during Bank Holdups (ie, between the cops robbing the bank and a rival group arriving on scene to uphold the law and protecting their own stake). Apparently the payout for such activities has risen high enough that local judges are now in on the action. Next time a government official talks about protecting the public try to see if he winks into the camera... -TD From: Eric Cordian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Gilmore Dimissal Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) It's really getting to the point where judges don't even go through the motions of respecting the Constitution any more. All they have to do is recite the magic words that Society's Overwhelming Interest in protecting its children, police officers, kitty cats, or whatever, overrides whatever Constitutional issues there are. So of course, society's interest in protecting police officers allows New Orleans police to search your home or business at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. As long as the cop mumbles something about making sure he's safe. Similarly, society's interest in ensuring the safety of airline passengers allows ID to be demanded and searches, and anyways, your right to freely travel is not being impeded, because there's always Greyhound. Of course, they can stop the bus and search everyone on it at will too. These problems stem directly from the horrible mistake, many years ago in the early days of our Republic, of letting what the Constitution says be what the judiciary claims the Constitution says, as opposed to what the Constitution itself states, thus giving the Judicial branch of government absolute power over the Legislative and Executive branches. As George Wallace once stated, The country is run by thugs and federal judges. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law _ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-uspage=hotmail/es2ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
On Mar 30, 2004, at 13:22, Bill Stewart wrote: Greyhound demands ID at some locations as well; my brother got surprised when his trip, which hadn't demanded ID on the way out, got routed through Chicago on the return and they did demand ID. I was curious about that. I notice now that Amtrak requires ID as well: http://www.amtrak.com/idrequire.html Does anyone know when this happened, or have experiences with having to show ID on Amtrak? You need ID to drive, bus, train, or fly... I guess all that's left is walking and possibly biking. :P --bgt
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
I was curious about that. I notice now that Amtrak requires ID as well: http://www.amtrak.com/idrequire.html Does anyone know when this happened, or have experiences with having to show ID on Amtrak? Sometime before early January this year, at least (probably significantly before). However, from DC Union Station (and probably many other stations), you can use the automated ticket system which 'only' asks for a credit card, no govt ID needed. And all the conductors care about is if you have a ticket. Philadelphia's automated system doesn't accept my credit card for mysterious reasons, so I have had to present ID when buying a ticket there. I haven't observed them doing any sort of scanning on my ID when I show it; anyway my ID doesn't have a magnetic stripe like the ones issued by most states around here, just an optical code. They copy down the name at least (shows up on the ticket), but it's hard to get a good look at their hands as they type, so it's possible they also grab the state/license # pair, which ties back to who-knows-what databases. -Jack pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 04:18:29PM -0500, sunder wrote: So, I'm not quite current about the Gilmore dismissal - is the subject line misspelled? Is there some URL regarding news of this? I take it from the gripes that John's lawsuit against Asscruft re: flying without ID was dismissed? I sent excerpts from the decision to Politech earlier this week. -Declan
Re: The Gilmore Dimissal
On Tue, Mar 30, 2004 at 06:01:57PM -0500, Jack Lloyd wrote: Sometime before early January this year, at least (probably significantly before). However, from DC Union Station (and probably many other stations), you can use the automated ticket system which 'only' asks for a credit card, no govt ID needed. And all the conductors care about is if you have a That is still the case. I took Amtrak NYC-DC this week. -Declan
