Re: Perl 6 and DBI
On Thu, Feb 05, 2015 at 12:23:40AM -, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: As you may have heard, Larry Wall gave a speech recently declaring the goal of releasing Perl 6 this year, 2015. Honestly, there is little chance of me using Perl 6 until it has a good, working DBI. Anyone know the state of things with DBI and Perl6? Is the goal still to implement what is basically DBI v2, or perhaps someone is working on a simple port of the existing DBI? Is a working DBI even on their list of blocker features for a release? On MoarVM the perl5 DBI can be accessed via the Inline::Perl5 module. That probably counts as a reasonable working DBI :) Back in 2007 I said this: http://www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/dbi-for-parrot-and-perl-6-lightning-talk-2007 Then in 2010 I said this: http://www.slideshare.net/Tim.Bunce/perl6-dbdi-yapceu-201008 I still think that's the right way to go, for all the reasons expressed in the slides. What's missing is a team of people with the right skill willing to work on it. I've had little time to do more than the tinkering I've already done and I'm severely hampered by knowing ~zero perl6 or Java. Volunteers are most welcome to express interest on the dbi-dev mailing list. Tim.
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Tim Bunce said: On MoarVM the perl5 DBI can be accessed via the Inline::Perl5 module. That probably counts as a reasonable working DBI :) Meh. More like working in a pinch via a hack but also says completely unsupported :( What's missing is a team of people with the right skill willing to work on it. I've had little time to do more than the tinkering I've already done and I'm severely hampered by knowing ~zero perl6 or Java. Thanks for the answer. Sadly, what I am reading between the lines here is that DBI is not even on the radar for anyone working on Perl 6, much less being a blocker. FWIW, I'm also in the zero perl6 boat. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/ PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201502061739 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEAREDAAYFAlTVQr0ACgkQvJuQZxSWSsgDngCffP6BLn4R5V5dKDuG0c/HODa+ d7oAn3QbU5rKPHuuQmu5GgHxLjTb+9jt =nyAS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
Perl 6 may need its own Tim Bunce, rather than somehow pressing the original into service. On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Tim Bunce said: On MoarVM the perl5 DBI can be accessed via the Inline::Perl5 module. That probably counts as a reasonable working DBI :) Meh. More like working in a pinch via a hack but also says completely unsupported :( What's missing is a team of people with the right skill willing to work on it. I've had little time to do more than the tinkering I've already done and I'm severely hampered by knowing ~zero perl6 or Java. Thanks for the answer. Sadly, what I am reading between the lines here is that DBI is not even on the radar for anyone working on Perl 6, much less being a blocker. FWIW, I'm also in the zero perl6 boat. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/ PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201502061739 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEAREDAAYFAlTVQr0ACgkQvJuQZxSWSsgDngCffP6BLn4R5V5dKDuG0c/HODa+ d7oAn3QbU5rKPHuuQmu5GgHxLjTb+9jt =nyAS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- There is a lot more low hanging fruit when you're tall.
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
Does this mean the floor is open for brainstorming? I'd like to see more transparent integration, so p6+dbi would be like pl/sql or pro*C or whatever that language Peoplesoft scripts used to be in that I was working with when I wrote DBIx::bind_param_inline. http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/database-access-in-perl-6-is-coming-along-nicely.html http://www.mail-archive.com/dbdi-dev@perl.org/maillist.html doesn't have anything new since 2011. And in that case, there would/should be a discussion about what form this DBI for Perl 6 should take.
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote: As you may have heard, Larry Wall gave a speech recently declaring the goal of releasing Perl 6 this year, 2015. Honestly, there is little chance of me using Perl 6 until it has a good, working DBI. This goes for me, too, and many, many other people too, I’ve little doubt. Best, David smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Perl 6 and DBI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 As you may have heard, Larry Wall gave a speech recently declaring the goal of releasing Perl 6 this year, 2015. Honestly, there is little chance of me using Perl 6 until it has a good, working DBI. Anyone know the state of things with DBI and Perl6? Is the goal still to implement what is basically DBI v2, or perhaps someone is working on a simple port of the existing DBI? Is a working DBI even on their list of blocker features for a release? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/ PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201502041922 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iEYEAREDAAYFAlTSt9kACgkQvJuQZxSWSsh22wCg4Aq5GHidAAuA95Id6LlCZfGt WKwAoNYmxbygO35GmpR+CyGV7uRsH4+N =bS+r -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
On 2015-02-04 4:28 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote: As you may have heard, Larry Wall gave a speech recently declaring the goal of releasing Perl 6 this year, 2015. Honestly, there is little chance of me using Perl 6 until it has a good, working DBI. This goes for me, too, and many, many other people too, I’ve little doubt. And in that case, there would/should be a discussion about what form this DBI for Perl 6 should take. Personally I think one of the most important design changes DBI should make is that DBI becomes an API spec that drivers/engines must conform to in order to be certifiably compatible. Part of the API is that user code can query the driver/engine to ask, do you implement DBI or do you implement this version of the DBI API etc. DBI should not be an actual code layer that applications have to go through in order to talk with the driver/engine, as it is now. However, there can exist Perl 6 roles or other shared libraries that a driver/engine may optionally use to help it implement the API rather than rolling its own. Think of the kind of revolution that PSGI brought by working this way, just defining an API or protocol to conform to, rather than being a module that everything had to use. DBI should do the same thing. The actual details of the API / common interface are an orthogonal matter. The key thing I'm looking for is no mandatory shared code between engines/drivers. -- Darren Duncan
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
Replying to myself ... I also believe that what I said, the no mandatory shared code, would also work just as well in any language, including a major new Perl 5 version. -- Darren Duncan On 2015-02-04 5:19 PM, Darren Duncan wrote: On 2015-02-04 4:28 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote: On Feb 4, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane g...@turnstep.com wrote: As you may have heard, Larry Wall gave a speech recently declaring the goal of releasing Perl 6 this year, 2015. Honestly, there is little chance of me using Perl 6 until it has a good, working DBI. This goes for me, too, and many, many other people too, I’ve little doubt. And in that case, there would/should be a discussion about what form this DBI for Perl 6 should take. Personally I think one of the most important design changes DBI should make is that DBI becomes an API spec that drivers/engines must conform to in order to be certifiably compatible. Part of the API is that user code can query the driver/engine to ask, do you implement DBI or do you implement this version of the DBI API etc. DBI should not be an actual code layer that applications have to go through in order to talk with the driver/engine, as it is now. However, there can exist Perl 6 roles or other shared libraries that a driver/engine may optionally use to help it implement the API rather than rolling its own. Think of the kind of revolution that PSGI brought by working this way, just defining an API or protocol to conform to, rather than being a module that everything had to use. DBI should do the same thing. The actual details of the API / common interface are an orthogonal matter. The key thing I'm looking for is no mandatory shared code between engines/drivers. -- Darren Duncan
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
I think it should be discussed, however I suggest dbi_dev is a more appropriate place than dbi_users. I can repost what I said there. -- Darren Duncan On 2015-02-04 7:52 PM, David Nicol wrote: Does this mean the floor is open for brainstorming? I'd like to see more transparent integration, so p6+dbi would be like pl/sql or pro*C or whatever that language Peoplesoft scripts used to be in that I was working with when I wrote DBIx::bind_param_inline. http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/database-access-in-perl-6-is-coming-along-nicely.html http://www.mail-archive.com/dbdi-dev@perl.org/maillist.html doesn't have anything new since 2011. And in that case, there would/should be a discussion about what form this DBI for Perl 6 should take.
Re: Perl 6 and DBI
I have now just copied this thread to dbi-dev in a single post with what everyone said so far. I recommend continuing any discussion about what form DBI/etc for Perl 6 should take over there. -- Darren Duncan On 2015-02-04 7:59 PM, Darren Duncan wrote: I think it should be discussed, however I suggest dbi_dev is a more appropriate place than dbi_users. I can repost what I said there. -- Darren Duncan On 2015-02-04 7:52 PM, David Nicol wrote: Does this mean the floor is open for brainstorming? I'd like to see more transparent integration, so p6+dbi would be like pl/sql or pro*C or whatever that language Peoplesoft scripts used to be in that I was working with when I wrote DBIx::bind_param_inline. http://perlbuzz.com/2008/12/database-access-in-perl-6-is-coming-along-nicely.html http://www.mail-archive.com/dbdi-dev@perl.org/maillist.html doesn't have anything new since 2011. And in that case, there would/should be a discussion about what form this DBI for Perl 6 should take.
