Re: tty13-24
nownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownow, for maximum security, buy a mac computer > On 21 Dec 2022, at 11:42, Geoff Shang wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Dec 2022, Frank Carmickle wrote: > >> Interestingly, my sid system hasn't changed from the old behavior of using >> right alt for directly accessing tty13-tty24. My newly installed bullseye >> has me using left alt and shift to get there. Anyone know how to revert to >> old behavior? > > You need to put the following in /etc/default/keyboard: > > XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch" > > this has not changed since previous releases and I've had to add it there to > them too. > > You can run > > setupcon -k > > to implement the change. > > Interestingly, the left alt key with shift still works after this change. > > HTH, > geoff. >
Re: most accessible desktop
its because debian is a step up from ubuntu, you have to manually install the missing packages in mate-extras, On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 1:38 AM K0LNY_Glenn wrote: > Hi All, > In my previous install of Debian 11.5, I selected Mate, and either some > menu > items weren't there that are in Ubuntu Mate, since I last installed Linux, > or maybe Debian provides the desktop with less options for configuration. > What do folks think is the most accessible desktop environment for Debian? > Thanks. > > Glenn > >
installing debian with speech, debian testing can not get passed scanning installation media
hello fellow debian fans, is it just my computer or is anyone experiencing the same thing. due to how new my system is I have to use testing as stable does not work with my hardware regardless of if I use non free. heres the problem, I download the latest snapshot, the last I tested was october, and the testing snapshots get updated once a week, basically what happens is you select a language and keyboard then wait for the network dialogue, when it says scanning installation media, it gets stuck and speech stops working, not sure if this has been fixed, but this doesn't happen when installing the bookworm alpha images, but I would still like to be tracking testing once bookworm becomes stable
Re: Skipping disk erase on Debian text-based installation
So how would you get the advanced installation when pressing s on the boot menu immediately puts you in the main installer after you select a sound board > On 3 Nov 2022, at 15:11, john doe wrote: > > On 11/3/22 15:55, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> jordan, le jeu. 03 nov. 2022 14:49:51 +, a ecrit: >>> as far as I know, you could manually select options in the installer, but >>> as I >>> understand it goes through them on its own, the only chance I have had to go >>> through them manually was because of an error >> >> You can also come back to the main menu with the '<' answer. Then you >> can change the question level down, and come back to the disk management >> and there you'll get the extra questions. >> >> > > To expend on Samuel's answer, you can also install Debian in advance > mode if you need to 'preseed' some stepts or set specific default > values for some questions. > > -- > John Doe >
Re: sources.list
If you want a graphical way of managing software sources, just install software-properties-gtk, its how I remove repos I no longer need > On 31 Oct 2022, at 21:59, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > likely nonfree is missing from your sources.list. > > > > Jude > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > > . >
Re: Debian and Orca installation Question
just use the netinstall iso files, they give you a minimal mate desktop with gimp and libreoffice but everything else you are free to use and customise in turms of what else you want, plus, orca comes as standard, if your pc requires non free firmware, go grab one of those images On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 7:03 PM Egon wrote: > Hi All, > > How can I install Debian without "auto start of Orca" problem? > I installed Debian with "Speech support" option from the actual Debian > standard first DVD many years ago. > I installed the Mate desktop environment. > Orca did not start automatically but the console-based speaking software > did. > > How can I install the system to avoid these problems? > Can I install the system from "debian-live-11.3.0-amd64-mate.iso" or > better if I install it from "debian-11.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso" image? > > Best regards: Egon > >
Re: webkit and the orca screen reader
I remember trying out conqueror once which is based on webkit but being kkde plasma, it doesn't work with orca On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 3:02 PM Jordan Livesey wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:29 PM john doe wrote: > >> On 10/26/22 13:14, Jordan Livesey wrote: >> > hello everyone, due to google chrome having issues with orca, or any >> > chromium based browser for that matter, where orca is reading lines >> >> Can you expend on the issue(s) you are having? >> >> > regardless of your orca settings, I have decided to try a webkit based >> > browser if any are for linux >> >> Google is your friend. >> >> > , how accessible is webkit with orca? >> > >> >> I would say give it a go, what will be good enough for me might not be >> for you! >> >> -- >> John Doe >> >>
Re: webkit and the orca screen reader
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:29 PM john doe wrote: > On 10/26/22 13:14, Jordan Livesey wrote: > > hello everyone, due to google chrome having issues with orca, or any > > chromium based browser for that matter, where orca is reading lines > > Can you expend on the issue(s) you are having? > > > regardless of your orca settings, I have decided to try a webkit based > > browser if any are for linux > > Google is your friend. > > > , how accessible is webkit with orca? > > > > I would say give it a go, what will be good enough for me might not be > for you! > > -- > John Doe > >
webkit and the orca screen reader
hello everyone, due to google chrome having issues with orca, or any chromium based browser for that matter, where orca is reading lines regardless of your orca settings, I have decided to try a webkit based browser if any are for linux, how accessible is webkit with orca?
Re: What's Wrong with this Mirror?
oh yes, that reminds me, you probably already know that apt-key is deprecated, perhaps the mirror is still using that On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 1:59 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > Did you download and install the multimedia gpg key, if not that's > probably the cause of this error. > > > > Jude "There are four boxes to be used in > defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > > . > > On Mon, 24 Oct 2022, Chime Hart wrote: > > > Hi All: As I run daily updates, I am noticing an error connecting to this > > mirror. > > http://mirror.optus.net/deb-multimedia/dists/unstable/InRelease > > Even just trying it in LYNX just hangs. Can some1 please suggest an > adequate > > replacement for my sources list? This is Debian SID. Thanks so much in > > advance. > > Chime > > > > > >
Re: What's Wrong with this Mirror?
I would suggest just using deb.debian.org as its recommended by the installer, as long as you have no other external repos installed you can take the sources.list file from your installation media, assuming your desktop file manager supports mounting squashfs filesystems, then all you need to do after mounting is go into the mounted drive and go to /etc/apt and copy the default sources.list file, provided your installation media was for sid On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 1:43 PM Chime Hart wrote: > Hi All: As I run daily updates, I am noticing an error connecting to this > mirror. > http://mirror.optus.net/deb-multimedia/dists/unstable/InRelease > Even just trying it in LYNX just hangs. Can some1 please suggest an > adequate > replacement for my sources list? This is Debian SID. Thanks so much in > advance. > Chime > >
Re: what's new in orca 43.0
I thought tesseract ocr would work but how would that be implemented with orca. is tesseract ocr even in bookworm? On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 4:20 PM chrys wrote: > Howdy Jordan, > > // I want to see this screen reader get lots of other new future > releases where you have ocr support and finally > when you feel confident you can try my plugin driven refactoring of > orca. its still a WIP but woks quite well. i created an simple OCR > plugin there for testing > https://www.patreon.com/posts/ocr-plugin-62328158 > > or you might want to give a shot to OCRdesktop 4, a stand alone > applications to analyse applications (and files) using OCR: > https://www.patreon.com/posts/ocrdesktop-4-0-62003474 > > cheers chrys > > Am 18.10.22 um 15:29 schrieb Jordan Livesey: > > hello folks, decided to install debian testing, which is the only > > version of debian I can actually get working on my computer. in doing > > so I am now running the latest orca, are there any new improvements I > > should > > be aware of? I want to see this screen reader get lots of other new > > future releases where you have ocr support and finally support for > > calamares, don't get me wrong, love the text based installer but it > > would be good to have calameres be accessible then those will > > eventually be upstream > > >
what's new in orca 43.0
hello folks, decided to install debian testing, which is the only version of debian I can actually get working on my computer. in doing so I am now running the latest orca, are there any new improvements I should be aware of? I want to see this screen reader get lots of other new future releases where you have ocr support and finally support for calamares, don't get me wrong, love the text based installer but it would be good to have calameres be accessible then those will eventually be upstream
Re: playing rs games on linux
I am strongly against the use of wine due to its instability On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 7:37 PM Cisco Tissera wrote: > Hello there, > > Although there is indeed an RS games version for Linux it's quite old and > might be a pain to start. > What I'd personally recommend is to install audiogame-manager and wine so > you can get it way more easily. > > Best regards. > > Francisco. > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 4:42 PM Jordan Livesey > wrote: > >> I am aware that there is a version of rs games available for linux but i >> can't get it up and running or know where the executable or what it is. >> those who have more experience than I do, how does one go about getting rs >> games up and running, regardless of which distro I am using >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Accessible-Coconut" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to accessible-coconut+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/accessible-coconut/CAKbXg6GT4%3DUPWLRGc6VxCQcZBE-8nan2QOJTrgT4gcsxZQoTGA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/accessible-coconut/CAKbXg6GT4%3DUPWLRGc6VxCQcZBE-8nan2QOJTrgT4gcsxZQoTGA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer> >> . >> >
playing rs games on linux
I am aware that there is a version of rs games available for linux but i can't get it up and running or know where the executable or what it is. those who have more experience than I do, how does one go about getting rs games up and running, regardless of which distro I am using
espeak improvements that I've noticed in testing
hello everyone, I have just upgraded from the current stable to testing to give it a spin and noticed something awesome, before, when you told orca to read no punctuation in settings, apparently periods were still read as dot, but now in the current state of testing periods are not read, for those who don't want to hear them if it gets annoying, I wonder what other improvements there are, hopefully accessibility of packages like virtualbox or gnome boxes as I want to test the unstable branch in a virtual machine
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
like I said, this account is impersonating me On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 6:56 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > If I agreed with you, both of us would be wrong. > > > On Sun, 9 Jan 2022, batman wrote: > > > high, I am batman, wlcome to gothum city > > > > On 30/12/2021 15:56, Jordan Livesey wrote: > > > I don't have to tell you this but for the last time, slackware isn't > easy to > > > use nore is anything based on slackware, which is why it doesn't > support > > > secure boot also, that is why debian is better > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:54 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. > wrote: > > > > > > And I just stated that Slint was amazingly accessible, > > > accessibility also means easy to use. Slint has the features, at > > > least with additional screen readers, already installed, easy to > > > switch on with a well documented script named "speak-with". > > > > > > That's not a war or any reason for a war, it's just a compliment. > > > > > > I love Debian, although I'd like to install the 10.1 from the > > > installation media and have sound while doing so. I understand > > > it's just my hardware not everyone else's. I'm still trying to > > > figure out the cause, but with multiple problems it's difficult, > > > but I can run Debian 10.1 as root, but I don't want to! So I'll > > > uninstall and reinstall Debian 9. > > > > > > There seems to be someone else who is flooding the list with > > > nonsense which should stop. > > > > > > Samuel, I stand by my statement, accessibility is not only ability > > > to be used, but ease of use, but that wasn't and never should be a > > > call for a war, which is what only you have mentioned. > > > > > > There, I said it. I never mentioned a war, I never called for one, > > > I simply said that it's easier to access accessibility features in > > > Slint, especially true for the newcomer. A compliment, not a wish > > > for war. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 06:20 Samuel Thibault > > > wrote: > > > > > > Didier Spaier, le jeu. 30 d?c. 2021 10:32:24 +0100, a ecrit: > > > > On 30/12/2021 08:10, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > > > > You also have the same choice on other distributions such > > > as Debian. > > > > > > > > > > Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that. > > > > > > > > Well Samuel, you quoted me out of context, I am not the one > > > who started the war. > > > > > > I didn't quote you, I quoted D.J.J. Ring. > > > > > > Samuel > > > > > >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
ok how do I unsubscribe On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 6:14 PM Chime Hart wrote: > Well DJ, why not just type "reportbug" followed by the name of package? > I've > had fairly good luck over the years, at least having my concerns be heard. > I > think the most trouble I had was having the program send my request > through a > remote server. > Chime > >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
the 2 I know of are nmcli and iwctl
On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 7:01 AM john doe wrote:
> On 12/31/2021 2:37 AM, Mike Reiser wrote:
> >> I have thought about switching to just working in a console, but I
> worry about having to memorize a bunch of commands to do things. in a
> graphical program, I can use keyboard commands to get around it mostly. Is
> this available in console programs? Also, how can I have the documentation
> open in a web browser, so I can read it while learning the commands in the
> console? Thanks,
> >
>
> Yes, shortcuts in a graphical env could be aliases in the console or
> creating a shell function that does what you want.
>
> In the terminal, there is no need to use a browser as all documentation
> is available using the 'man' command.
>
> Going online might be useful if you want to research a specific
> question, have some example ...
>
>
> To me those two envs are not antagonist, the only difference between the
> CLI ('console') and a DE (desktop environment) is that with the CLI you
> can do what ever you want by providing options to a utility.
> In a grafical env, you are able to do what is made available but in
> general you don't have access to all functionalities that the CLI offers.
>
> The advantage of Linux is that when you are stuck in a DE you always
> have the choise to fall back to the CLI!
>
> A visual environment is sometime easier and more friendly when sited
> help is needed.
>
> What suits you best is what is importent.
>
> --
> John Doe
>
>
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
That is why when you are just starting out on the console, and you know how to set up speak up, the keyboard shortcuts for that only require you to hold down the caps lock key by default, when ever I do an install I always turn the volume up with caps lock and 2 to turn up the volume, but as a rule of thumb, I generally don’t need to use it as the terminal gets all the work I need done, a simple sudo aptitude update and sudo aptitude upgrade if needed if I check for updates which I do regularly > On 31 Dec 2021, at 03:14, Jeffery Mewtamer wrote: > > Even with console applications, there are various toolkits that allow > for the creation of pseudo-GUIs and many such applications do have a > number of keyboard commands, though they don't always adhere to the > conventions shared by most GUI applications(e.g. in the Nano text > editor, save is ctrl+o, not ctrl+s, cut and paste are ctrl+k and > ctrl+u instead of ctrl+x and ctrl+v, and find is ctrl+w instead of > ctrl+f) > > Most such text-only GUIs are built on ncurses, and there are packages > like dialog that allow shell scripts to to display dialog boxes and > scrollable menus. > > I also think it worth noting that, on most distros, there isn't just > one console, but several and that you can easily switch between them > with just a couple of key presses. > > As a general rule, each console is reference by the abbreviation tty > followed by a number and if you're in one console, you switch to a > different one by pressing alt+ the function key corresponding to the > number of the console you want. The number varies from distro to > distro, but 12 is common, one for each function key on a standard > keyboard, though I understand setups with 24 and a distinction made > between left alt and right alt when switching aren't uncommon. If > you're running an Xserver, it takes up one of the consoles, and if > you're in the GUI, you typically need to do trl+alt+fn to break out of > the GUI and into the text consoles. If you start x manually, the > xserver will be on whichever console you were on when you invoked > startx, but if your system boots into the desktop automatically, which > console is used for the GUI varies from distro to distro, though I > believe tty1 and tty6 or tty7 are the most common. > > I usually have a stripped down Xserver running Firefox+Orca on tty1 > and use tty2+ for everything else... at the moment, I have: > > Firefox+Orca running on tty1 > aumix(a audio mixer) opened in tty2 > A text file open in nano on tty3 > tty4 at the command prompt in the directory where the text file that's > open in tty3 is located, for easily running wc to get word count of > the file without having to close and reopen my editor or if I need to > pull up a different file to reference something. > tty5 is open to the directory where Firefox dumps all of my downloads. > > and from Firefox, I just use ctrl+alt+F2-F5 to jump to aumix, the open > text file, the directory where the file is saved, or my downloads > directory, and can switch between any of those text consoles with just > alt+a function key. > > And while I haven't use them, there are utilities like screen and some > others to facilitate multi-tasking in a single console. > > And if things are properly configured, switching between the console > running X and one of the text consoles should seamlessly switch > between Orca and your console screen reader, though this can sometimes > be tricky to get working right. >
Re: Debian Accessibility
all I need to do is arrow down 5 times, and it starts speaking the message, type enter to use this sound board, I've memorised the installation at this point so know which language location and debian archive mirror I want On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 6:52 PM Samuel Thibault wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2021, Jordan Livesey wrote: > > Have you tried pressing the down arrow 5 times when on the boot menu of > Debian 11? Some how, pressing s no longer works for some people > > I am not aware of any bug report about this. The precise ISO image that > was used needs to be told so we can check why there would be a bug. > > Jude DaShiell wrote: > > First press a on the boot prompt then hit enter. > > This step is only needed if you want to access advanced options such as > expert mode. If you don't need that, you can just directly press s enter. > > Samuel >
Re: Debian Accessibility
Have you tried pressing the down arrow 5 times when on the boot menu of Debian 11? Some how, pressing s no longer works for some people > On 30 Dec 2021, at 18:28, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > If I install with Debian 10 installation media, then change the > /etc/apt/sources.list everything works as it should, my sound card is > correctly detected, and I have screen reader during installation, I have > screen reader when booting into Debian and I can use the MATE Graphical > Environment as my user. Perfect. > > I can also upgrade to Debian 11 by changing my /etc/apt/sources.list files. > > But unfortunately for me the Debian 11.0 and current Debian 11.1 installation > media just don't work for me. Every previous version since Woody in 2002 has > worked just fine. > > Best wishes, > David
Re: Debian Accessibility
Mac auto correct again, god I hate this feature, was talking about UEFI > On 30 Dec 2021, at 18:21, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > Jordan, > > Your post makes very little sense to me. I don't know what "refi system" > means. Also unless my memory is incorrect, Debian comes up with a screen > reader and tells you what to do to install it. If it doesn't it should, but > I believe that has already been done. > > Earlier I had made comments about Debian 10.1 release but I'm bad about > numbers, it should have been the Debian 11.1 release, the latest version > available, I'm still having problems installing it. I can install it even > though I have no speech - it doesn't detect my sound card correctly, but when > I reboot I have sound. > > But unfortunately, I cannot boot into MATE graphical user without using the > root account. > > I can revert to the latest version of Debian 10 and then just change the > /etc/apt/sources.list file to change to the latest Debian and everything > does work fine, but for some reason the Debian 11.1 installer won't let me > run MATE as a user nor will it give me screen reader during installation. > > I understand this is because of my hardware and most likely a non-free > firmware bug and not a common problem for other users. I've never ever had > trouble installing Debian except when Debian 11.0 was released, it's > previously always worked without fault, but since 11.0 I still have failure > of sound card detection, lack of screen reader during installation and after > installation inability to use GUI without running "startx" as root which I > really do not want to do. My work around is to install the last Debian 10 and > then change the repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list. > > Best wishes, > David > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 12:56 PM Jordan Livesey <mailto:jordanlives...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Another thing, about the installer, even if you don’t know how to get speech > on, this is for anyone new, they can just press the down arrow 5 times on the > boot menu on an refi system, plus on supported systems, like my old Lenovo, > you hear 2 beeps, I believe the current project leader is also visually > impaired, if I could, I could back port orca41 since I’ve had no trouble > using it
Re: Debian Accessibility
I have tried one time but was unable to get speech output and was using a virtual machine due to my machine being a secure boot system, the debian installer is my favorite text based installer but I like how features are being borrowed from it, I've yet to do a debian installation video on youtube since I've done others On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 6:13 PM Didier Spaier wrote: > The Slint installer borrows at least one feature from the Debian > installer: the > way sound cards are probed just after booting, to find a working one > (thanks > Samuel). > > More generally, sharing ideas and features between distribution benefit > users of > all of them. Trying to find which one is the best is pointless as it > depends on > the users' needs and use cases, in other words their requirements. > > Cheers, > Didier > > On 30/12/2021 18:56, Jordan Livesey wrote: > > Another thing, about the installer, even if you don’t know how to get > speech on, > > this is for anyone new, they can just press the down arrow 5 times on > the boot > > menu on an refi system, plus on supported systems, like my old Lenovo, > you hear > > 2 beeps, I believe the current project leader is also visually impaired, > if I > > could, I could back port orca41 since I’ve had no trouble using it > > > >> On 30 Dec 2021, at 17:52, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. >> <mailto:n...@arrl.net>> wrote: > >> > >> Hello,friendly list, this discussion was inside another discussion and > perhaps > >> partly because of my poor choice of words, was thought to be a distro > flame > >> war, but that was never my intention or desire. > >> > >> I want to make a point about Accessibility in general and Accessibility > >> in Debian in particular. Nothing I say should be taken as an offense > to any > >> of the developers who have done an amazing job in making Linux, and > Debian in > >> particular accessible. > >> > >> My two favorite Linux distros are Debian and Slint. I have some > favorable > >> comments about how robust Slackware is opposed to Debian - or most other > >> distributions - but that's way off topic. Suffice it to say, that > being a > >> Debian is the only way to go type person, I've been very impressed with > the > >> robustness of Slackware, especially the accessible International > version, Slint. > >> > >> Now on topic. > >> > >> Part of accessibility is having accessibility features known about by > users > >> and have them easily used. Debian does this very well in their > installer > >> which speaks to blind or visually impaired users, and provides visually > >> impaired users with a high contrast graphical installer. Excellent. > >> > >> My original post - which I take responsibility of not wording as well > as I > >> should have mentioned "ease of use". I was attempting both to tell the > members > >> of this list, which are both users and developers about how Slint based > on > >> Slackwware has succeeded in having almost all of it's > accessibility features > >> accessible to the new non-technical user. As the blind that go to the > >> museums say: "What's good of having guided tour headphones available > in the > >> manager's office when the only notice of them is a written notice we > cannot see?" > >> > >> None of the accessibility features in Slint require any user effort > other than > >> running a script to use. With Debian you first have to know these > features > >> even exist, then you have to install them. In Slint, thanks to Didier > Spaier's > >> work these features are documented in an accessible console document. Of > >> course, his work depends in part on your wonderful work on brltty and > other > >> features, again, this is not an invitation to a distro war, it's just > about > >> accessibility features being accessible and my recognizing these > features have > >> been wonderfully achieved in Slint. > >> > >> If such wonderful achievements aren't at least mentioned, some or all > of them > >> will probably never be brought into Debian to improve > accessibility.Certainly > >> as Samuel pointed out, all these features are available in Debian, but > >> unfortunately it takes a bit of digging to find out about them. > >> > >> Again, thanks to everyone for their efforts in achieving accessibility > of > >> Linux. This always was a team effort of many selfless persons > world-wide, and > >> for that I am personally grateful and appreciative. > >> > >> David > > > >
accessible midi only sequencer
now that that is all cleared up I've been wanting to become a serious musician on linux and in debian in particular, however up to now I've found no sequencers that only support midi and support midi input via computer keyboard, I've been unable to get lmms to work with midi and the only other accessible option is musescore, since linux is perfect for musicians which sequencer does anyone recommend
Re: Debian Accessibility
Another thing, about the installer, even if you don’t know how to get speech on, this is for anyone new, they can just press the down arrow 5 times on the boot menu on an refi system, plus on supported systems, like my old Lenovo, you hear 2 beeps, I believe the current project leader is also visually impaired, if I could, I could back port orca41 since I’ve had no trouble using it > On 30 Dec 2021, at 17:52, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > Hello, friendly list, this discussion was inside another discussion and > perhaps partly because of my poor choice of words, was thought to be a distro > flame war, but that was never my intention or desire. > > I want to make a point about Accessibility in general and Accessibility in > Debian in particular. Nothing I say should be taken as an offense to any of > the developers who have done an amazing job in making Linux, and Debian in > particular accessible. > > My two favorite Linux distros are Debian and Slint. I have some favorable > comments about how robust Slackware is opposed to Debian - or most other > distributions - but that's way off topic. Suffice it to say, that being a > Debian is the only way to go type person, I've been very impressed with the > robustness of Slackware, especially the accessible International version, > Slint. > > Now on topic. > > Part of accessibility is having accessibility features known about by users > and have them easily used. Debian does this very well in their installer > which speaks to blind or visually impaired users, and provides visually > impaired users with a high contrast graphical installer. Excellent. > > My original post - which I take responsibility of not wording as well as I > should have mentioned "ease of use". I was attempting both to tell the > members of this list, which are both users and developers about how Slint > based on Slackwware has succeeded in having almost all of it's accessibility > features accessible to the new non-technical user. As the blind that go to > the museums say: "What's good of having guided tour headphones available in > the manager's office when the only notice of them is a written notice we > cannot see?" > > None of the accessibility features in Slint require any user effort other > than running a script to use. With Debian you first have to know these > features even exist, then you have to install them. In Slint, thanks to > Didier Spaier's work these features are documented in an accessible console > document. Of course, his work depends in part on your wonderful work on > brltty and other features, again, this is not an invitation to a distro war, > it's just about accessibility features being accessible and my recognizing > these features have been wonderfully achieved in Slint. > > If such wonderful achievements aren't at least mentioned, some or all of them > will probably never be brought into Debian to improve accessibility. > Certainly as Samuel pointed out, all these features are available in Debian, > but unfortunately it takes a bit of digging to find out about them. > > Again, thanks to everyone for their efforts in achieving accessibility of > Linux. This always was a team effort of many selfless persons world-wide, and > for that I am personally grateful and appreciative. > > David
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
Unfortunately that is a downside of using gmail as it always quotes previous messages, currently using mail on my Mac because it has autocorrect > On 30 Dec 2021, at 17:06, john doe wrote: > > On 12/30/2021 5:50 PM, Jordan Livesey wrote: >>> On 30 Dec 2021, at 16:49, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: >>> > > Please take this out of here. > > -- > John Doe >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
Word of advice, if you are using thunderbird, you can use your full name instead of using the name Mozilla provides as found in the from field, hope this helps for those new to thunderbird > On 30 Dec 2021, at 17:06, john doe wrote: > > On 12/30/2021 5:50 PM, Jordan Livesey wrote: >>> On 30 Dec 2021, at 16:49, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: >>> > > Please take this out of here. > > -- > John Doe >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
That’s OK then, as long as we are talking about Debian I am fine with that. Because I love Debian, that’s why I came here > On 30 Dec 2021, at 16:49, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > > Jordan, > > I am discussing Debian accessibility. > > Please stop with repeated comments. Mentioning other distributions or > operating systems is not forbidden. You yourself just mentioned "windows and > ubuntu". > > Please stop. > > Thanks, > > David > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 11:11 Jordan Livesey <mailto:jordanlives...@gmail.com>> wrote: > This is not a war, and I told you > 37356456464646464647474748376373747638726349872398732498723498723484739287348729837349872348739423423424400400400440044004400440040 > times that this is strictly for Debian, do you want me to go back to > windows? No, I came here because I want to get away from windows and ubuntu
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
This is not a war, and I told you 37356456464646464647474748376373747638726349872398732498723498723484739287348729837349872348739423423424400400400440044004400440040 times that this is strictly for Debian, do you want me to go back to windows? No, I came here because I want to get away from windows and ubuntu
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
Well if you want to be a hacker, go be my guest, because Slackware was designed for it, but for everyone else, Debian is the way to go, and this is a Debian specific mailing list, not a Slackware one > On 30 Dec 2021, at 16:06, Devin Prater wrote: > > Dude, anyone that uses Slackware and enjoys it, enjoys it for what it is. > It's not your job to tell people what to use and what not to use. Some of > these people have been using computers, most likely, much longer than you > have, so can deal with compiling software, managing different package > managers, building compile scripts for their package managers, and generally > dealing with a system as... scenic as Slackware. You are not anyone's parents > on this list. It is a list for Linux users who enjoy using advanced software. > These people, in conclusion, know what they're getting into, and what they're > doing. If not, they'll ask for help on choosing a distribution. Also, for any > XKCD references, search for them on explainxkcd.org <http://explainxkcd.org/>. > > > Devin Prater > r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com <mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 9:57 AM Jordan Livesey <mailto:jordanlives...@gmail.com>> wrote: > I don't have to tell you this but for the last time, slackware isn't easy to > use nore is anything based on slackware, which is why it doesn't support > secure boot also, that is why debian is better > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:54 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <mailto:n...@arrl.net>> wrote: > And I just stated that Slint was amazingly accessible, accessibility also > means easy to use. Slint has the features, at least with additional screen > readers, already installed, easy to switch on with a well documented script > named "speak-with". > > That's not a war or any reason for a war, it's just a compliment. > > I love Debian, although I'd like to install the 10.1 from the installation > media and have sound while doing so. I understand it's just my hardware not > everyone else's. I'm still trying to figure out the cause, but with multiple > problems it's difficult, but I can run Debian 10.1 as root, but I don't want > to! So I'll uninstall and reinstall Debian 9. > > There seems to be someone else who is flooding the list with nonsense which > should stop. > > Samuel, I stand by my statement, accessibility is not only ability to be > used, but ease of use, but that wasn't and never should be a call for a war, > which is what only you have mentioned. > > There, I said it. I never mentioned a war, I never called for one, I simply > said that it's easier to access accessibility features in Slint, especially > true for the newcomer. A compliment, not a wish for war. > > Best wishes, > > David > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 06:20 Samuel Thibault <mailto:sthiba...@debian.org>> wrote: > Didier Spaier, le jeu. 30 déc. 2021 10:32:24 +0100, a ecrit: > > On 30/12/2021 08:10, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > > You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian. > > > > > > Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that. > > > > Well Samuel, you quoted me out of context, I am not the one who started the > > war. > > I didn't quote you, I quoted D.J.J. Ring. > > Samuel >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
I don't have to tell you this but for the last time, slackware isn't easy to use nore is anything based on slackware, which is why it doesn't support secure boot also, that is why debian is better On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:54 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > And I just stated that Slint was amazingly accessible, accessibility also > means easy to use. Slint has the features, at least with additional screen > readers, already installed, easy to switch on with a well documented script > named "speak-with". > > That's not a war or any reason for a war, it's just a compliment. > > I love Debian, although I'd like to install the 10.1 from the installation > media and have sound while doing so. I understand it's just my hardware not > everyone else's. I'm still trying to figure out the cause, but with > multiple problems it's difficult, but I can run Debian 10.1 as root, but I > don't want to! So I'll uninstall and reinstall Debian 9. > > There seems to be someone else who is flooding the list with nonsense > which should stop. > > Samuel, I stand by my statement, accessibility is not only ability to be > used, but ease of use, but that wasn't and never should be a call for a > war, which is what only you have mentioned. > > There, I said it. I never mentioned a war, I never called for one, I > simply said that it's easier to access accessibility features in Slint, > especially true for the newcomer. A compliment, not a wish for war. > > Best wishes, > > David > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 06:20 Samuel Thibault wrote: > >> Didier Spaier, le jeu. 30 déc. 2021 10:32:24 +0100, a ecrit: >> > On 30/12/2021 08:10, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> > > You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian. >> > > >> > > Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that. >> > >> > Well Samuel, you quoted me out of context, I am not the one who started >> the war. >> >> I didn't quote you, I quoted D.J.J. Ring. >> >> Samuel >> >>
RE: One of the latest Debian update broke speech output :-(
I was able to install it with the speech so it hasn't broken that, and. Plus olka works, so there's nothing wrong. , are you using version 11? From: Christian Schoepplein Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 8:30:42 AM To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org Subject: One of the latest Debian update broke speech output :-( Hi, one of the latest updates for my system, latest Debian Bullseye, broke speech output on my system. I do have the normal Debian repos activated, aditionaly I am using debian backports. Yesterday everything was fine but today there is no more speech output for a normal user and I ha ve not rebooted my systems. Because I need speech in console and orca I am running pulseaudio in the not recommented daemon mode. My normal user and also the speech-dispatcher user are members of the pulseaudio and pulseaudio-access group. I can run a spd-say as root and speech is there, but as a normal user running spd-say produces no output and the program is hanging. Has anyone an idea whats going on there? If more information about my setup are needed just let me know. Cheers and thanks for any idea to get a propper working system back, Schoepp
RE: Iggdrasill, a new amazing screen reader
When it comes to accessible desktop environments, XFC is quite accessible, In fact, you can easily use FCE desktop environment with screen readers, especially orca, It's just a shame that distributions featuring the desktop environment don't come with it. , otherwise the MATE desktop environments could too. From: Jeffery Mewtamer Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 11:58:48 PM To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Iggdrasill, a new amazing screen reader You know, some of us actually prefer the console to running resource intensive desktop environments and graphical applications, and since Orca only works in the GUI, console screen readers are a necessity for those who need a screen reader and choose to live in the console. Plus, a console screen reader can make the difference between being able to fix a system with a broken GUI and being forced to do a clean install. If you're happy in the GUI, good for you, but I would be far less productive if I didn't have a console screen reader and had to do everything in the GUI, and if I ever found a console web browser I liked half as much as Firefox, I'd ditch the GUI and Orca altogether. As for why x distro exists, it's usually because someone wanted to do things a bit different from other offerings and decided to share it. The results aren't always suitable to anyone else's needs or wants, and they aren't always polished, but anyone with the know how and the ability to share large files being able to share their own custom version is just part of how FOSS works... and in all fairness, what some people want from Linux is an experience as similar to their favorite version of windows as they can get because they're fed up with Microsoft changing everything with each major release. Hell, back when I could see, part of the reason I switched to LXDE was because it gave me the most Win9x-like look and feel while still having the greater stability of Linux and the ability to run current software. And while I can't really comment on any of the anamed distros since I've never used any of them, I'm sure they all have their fans, and their opinions are just as valid as those who prefer Debian. Also, complaining about some software not getting updates and other software getting too many updates seems like a bit of a contradiction.
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
Orca is the only good screen reader, as well as fenrir and many other console screen readers, this project would be most useful for android x86 installers that have no accessible way of installing them or even include talkback, and yes, you can run android on your pc > On 30 Dec 2021, at 10:19, Didier Spaier wrote: > > Hi Jordan, > > Answers to some of your statements after the quotes. > > On 30/12/2021 08:13, Jordan Livesey wrote: >> chromium is only accessible on distros based on debian based >> on a dependency that only debian has and that ubuntu also uses, fedora users >> are out of luck here, so are arch and opensuse users > > I wonder which dependency you are speaking about. > Initially as Joanmarie Diggs wrote in: > https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca/Chromium > you needed to launch Chrome or Chromium with these options > --enable-caret-browsing > --force-renderer-accessibility > but this is not necessary any more in recent versions of Chrome and Chromium. > You only need insure that ACCESSIBILITY_ENABLED=1 is in your environment. > This is true regardless of the distribution in use. > > On 30/12/2021 08:58, Jordan Livesey wrote: >> slint is not based on a newer version of slackware > True, Slint is based on Slackware64-14.2 released in 2016. However it includes > the most recent versions of Orca, speech dispatcher and console screen readers > as Mate desktop, mpv and vlc, for instance. > > This being said, yes I would like to re-base it on a more recent Slackware > version, hopefully in a not too distant future. There is some hope: Patrick > Volkerding posted that Slackware 15 could be released circa 17 January 2022. > >> also, it doesn't support secure boot > True, and I agree that we should overcome this limitation. Recent work has > been > done by a Slackware contributor on this regard, and I will try to provide this > support in Slint 15. > >> I highly discourage >> anyone from using slackware or anything based on it especially for new users > > You are free to give the advice you deem appropriate. I am just guessing that > this one is not based on a recent personal experience. > >> also, linux distros that focus on accessibility tend to go out of support >> pretty >> quickly > > Indeed I can't guarantee that I will be able to provide support in the next 30 > years (hint: I am 72), but hope someone will take over Slint maintenance and > support. And I am not the only one to provide support in our mailing list. > > This being said, it is neither uncommon let alone unfeasible to switch to > another distribution for any reason. I started with Mandrake. > > Cheers, > Didier >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
fenrir is a pretty nice screen reader, it comes with jenux On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 8:57 AM Sebastian Humenda wrote: > Hi all > > Samuel Thibault schrieb am 30.12.2021, 8:10 +0100: > >D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le mer. 29 déc. 2021 21:56:55 -0500, a ecrit: > >> Also with Slint, arguably the most accessible of them all, you have the > choice > >> of various screen readers in console: > >> > >> espeakup (Console screen reader connecting espeak-ng and speakup) > >> fenrir (Modular, flexible and fast console screen reader) > >> speechd-up (Console screen reader connecting Speech Dispatcher and > speakup) > > > >You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian. > > Let me use this opportunity to thank all those who make this happen. I have > been using Debian during my studies and now during work for more than 10 > years > now. Real console (BRLTTY with speech) and GUI (Orca). Great documentation, > friendly people helping out and a lot of choice. And good to hear that > other > distributions apparently also have good people doing the distributor's work > ;). > > Regarding the original topic. I actually prefer Rust for critical > components > for many technical reasons and I could imagine that Python's global > interpreter lock (GIL) is possibly not great for a screen reader either. > However, given the limited resources on a11y, in particular on the GUI, I > also > would favour extending Orca. But in the end it is the spare time of people, > and we can probably only start complaining if we actually pay them. > > Cheers > Sebastian > >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
slint is not based on a newer version of slackware, also, it doesn't support secure boot and that is why I favor debian because it does, I highly discourage anyone from using slackware or anything based on it especially for new users, also, linux distros that focus on accessibility tend to go out of support pretty quickly, look at talking arch, keysoft linux, vinux, sonar, and luwrain for instance, nobody liked them so they stopped being supported because mainstream linux was accessible enough, why do you think debian is the king of accessibility, it just works, boot your install up, down arrow 5 times and voa lah you have speech, for those sighted they can use calamares, sidenote you can't install chrome on slackware and for those who use it, like me, disappointing, even solus is bad On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 7:54 AM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote: > Hello Samuel, > > What I meant is that SLINT comes pre-installed and preconfigured with all > those console screen readers as well as emacspeak all preconfigured for the > user and two simple scripts that allow the user to switch screen readers by > just entering the name of the screen reader. > > Additionally when emacspeak is switched on, the script asks if the user if > the voxin voices are going to be used. > > Thirdly, the user can decide with scripts if he wishes to boot into just > console text mode or into the graphical environment. Many users rely on old > hardware that is slow in graphical environment but which are fast in text > console mode. > > No distro war is being stirred up, but it would be wonderful if Debian had > these things set up for users who want them. Many of us struggle with > getting things to work. > > It took me years to figure out how to install emacspeak and configure the > speech server. I understand it's much easier in Debian now, but it's as > easy as entering the command "switch-on emacspeak" and an emacs file is > produced with the right content and everything! > > It took me years to figure out that some of the on line documentation for > emacspeak no longer applied. > > Years of effort compared with one fast command "switch-on emacspeak" is a > huge difference. > > The documentation is all in "slint-docs" excellently written and easy to > follow, right in the console. > > Now if someone would give us a script to configure mutt and alpine > everything would be all done. > > Debian could and probably will do all of this in ten years, and I'm > looking forward to it as once I found the Debian iso files with firmware, > Debian has been my favorite distribution but currently the latest Debian > installation DVD doesn't find my sound card and I have X org errors so I > cannot boot into Mate except by using root account. So until Debian starts > working for me again, I'm using SLINT. > > But I can use the old Debian 9 and use that with my home files, just not > Debian 10.1. I'll have to find the time to reinstall the old Debian, I've > spent two weeks trying to install Debian 10.1 without screen reader and > then without graphics (except when using root). I love Debian but > accessibility is an after thought compared to Slint which has accessibility > as one of its primary goals. > > Happy 2022! > > David > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 02:10 Samuel Thibault wrote: > >> D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le mer. 29 déc. 2021 21:56:55 -0500, a ecrit: >> > Also with Slint, arguably the most accessible of them all, you have the >> choice >> > of various screen readers in console: >> > >> > espeakup (Console screen reader connecting espeak-ng and speakup) >> > fenrir (Modular, flexible and fast console screen reader) >> > speechd-up (Console screen reader connecting Speech Dispatcher and >> speakup) >> >> You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian. >> >> Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that. >> >> Samuel >> >>
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
for those distros that are not accessible, you can make them accessible but you may need sighted help, for instance, orca isn't just gonna work by installing it as you have to enable espeak and espeakup as a service in any distro that isn't debian or fedora, chromium is only accessible on distros based on debian based on a dependency that only debian has and that ubuntu also uses, fedora users are out of luck here, so are arch and opensuse users On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 7:10 AM Samuel Thibault wrote: > D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le mer. 29 déc. 2021 21:56:55 -0500, a ecrit: > > Also with Slint, arguably the most accessible of them all, you have the > choice > > of various screen readers in console: > > > > espeakup (Console screen reader connecting espeak-ng and speakup) > > fenrir (Modular, flexible and fast console screen reader) > > speechd-up (Console screen reader connecting Speech Dispatcher and > speakup) > > You also have the same choice on other distributions such as Debian. > > Please don't fall in a distro war, we don't need that. > > Samuel > >
Re: Iggdrasill, a new amazing screen reader
one of my computers has been hijacked, a distribution, called accessible coconut, malware found on the distro On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 12:03 AM nownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownow wrote: > m > On 29/12/2021 23:57, google wrote: > > ping > On 29/12/2021 23:46, nandroid wrote: > > use chromebook instead > On 29/12/2021 23:13, chromium wrote: > > nownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownownow > On 29/12/2021 23:11, Jordan Livesey wrote: > > I, for 1, hate console screen readers, and will not use this one, orca is > the only usable linux reader and manjaro is silly anyway so its not worth > useing it, don't know why it even exists in the first place when it crashes > frequently and is full of malware. linux mint demands you update your > system all the time, its the microsoft of the linux world, accessible > coconut is reaching EOL like vinux, blind arch never became popular due to > official arch being epic, ubuntu is ubuntu, slow, buggy, unstable. orca is > the only usable reader hear that works as others rarely get updates, the > latest version of orca was released with gnome 41 and fixed accessibility > bugs while changing key echo to echo so its clearly being updated, support > for thunderbird has gotten better and it no longer freequently crashes, > when it comes to accessible distros, debian is just too good that its not > recommended to use distros that are not debian, which is why calamares was > designed for sighted use and why I see the debian installer last for many > years to come, that is the only time you neeed a console screen reader, > especially on android x86 installation media where you can also include a > screen reader for that, > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:02 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > >> So everybody understands, when I write something about a particular Linux >> distro not being accessible I have already downloaded and tested that >> distro. >> >>
Re: Iggdrasill, a new amazing screen reader
I, for 1, hate console screen readers, and will not use this one, orca is the only usable linux reader and manjaro is silly anyway so its not worth useing it, don't know why it even exists in the first place when it crashes frequently and is full of malware. linux mint demands you update your system all the time, its the microsoft of the linux world, accessible coconut is reaching EOL like vinux, blind arch never became popular due to official arch being epic, ubuntu is ubuntu, slow, buggy, unstable. orca is the only usable reader hear that works as others rarely get updates, the latest version of orca was released with gnome 41 and fixed accessibility bugs while changing key echo to echo so its clearly being updated, support for thunderbird has gotten better and it no longer freequently crashes, when it comes to accessible distros, debian is just too good that its not recommended to use distros that are not debian, which is why calamares was designed for sighted use and why I see the debian installer last for many years to come, that is the only time you neeed a console screen reader, especially on android x86 installation media where you can also include a screen reader for that, On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:02 PM Jude DaShiell wrote: > So everybody understands, when I write something about a particular Linux > distro not being accessible I have already downloaded and tested that > distro. > >
Re: Iggdrasil, a new amazing screenreader
rather than make something new, we should really concentrate on orca because its built into most popular distributions except manjaro and open suse. because quite frankly a new to linux user would rather use orca than fiddle about with a console based screen reader like fenrir, luckily I switched to debian because the version of orca it provides is better than that provided by ubuntu, by that works properly with mate unlike ubuntu On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 6:15 PM Aaron wrote: > > On 12/12/21 04:59, Pawel L. wrote: > > Hi, > > I think that the blind Linux community would benefit more from > > consolidating the knowledge of talented programmers and creating one, > > but maximally complete screen reader. > > > > I am sure that it would be better for all of us to effectively support > > the development of ORCA, as is the case with NVDA in Windows, than to > > start new projects. > > > > There are many ideas out there, but usually nothing comes of it. > > > > Take care, > > Pawel > > Just to put in my own two cents as a developer - supporting an existing > project and starting an alternative project are not mutually exclusive. > One of the great things about open source is that the lessons learned > from one project can pretty easily be applied to a different project. > > There are many reasons why it might work better to start a new project > rather than contributing to an existing one. You might want to > experiment with concepts that the maintainers of the existing project > are not interested in, you might find the existing code base too > confusing to start contributing to, you might want to simplify the code > base or work in a different language that you are more familiar with. > > This allows people to experiment, or at least get familiar, with the > specific issues surrounding a project. The best aspects of the new > project can either be implemented as a patch or pulled into the main > project by its maintainers if they see a clear benefit. > > I'm interested in the comparison to NVDA, though. I don't know the > history of the development of that project, or what the main differences > in developer acceptance are between NVDA and ORCA. Do you find Windows > open source development to be less chaotic than Linux in general, or > just in this project specifically? It could make an interesting history. > > Thanks, > > Aaron > >
Re: Skipping disk erase on Debian text-based installation (fwd)
as far as I know during installation even if you manually partitioned your disk its still gonna format it so that debian can be installed On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 7:34 PM Samuel Thibault wrote: > Hello, > > Samuel Thibault, le jeu. 04 nov. 2021 01:18:16 +0100, a ecrit: > > Edhoari Setiyoso, le mer. 03 nov. 2021 07:24:28 +0700, a ecrit: > > > I should've mention that this procedure happened when we want to do > full disk > > > encryption with LVM. > > > > Indeed that can be a real pain. I don't know a way to interrupt it with > > the text interface. I have submitted the feature request to the cdebconf > > package. > > I have implemented it through the control-C shortcut. That'll become > available in Debian bookworm (Debian 12). > > Samuel > >
