Re: S3 Trio64 support
Dear Gary The S3 cards do work perfectly in an Alpha under Debian. If I remember right, the S3 needs RAMDAC support and needed an XFree86 v3.x. I don't know wether the latest Xorg or XFree86 supports this, it seems not... (BTW: Have disabled graphical login? If not - comment out the login manager in /etc/X11/default-display-manager). Anyway how it works: You can install both versions of 4.x and 3.x of XFree86. Don't ask me why nor how, fact is X runs in the end on your S3: Install xserver-s3 xserver-common-v3 and xserver-xfree86. I don't know if this works with xorg. The packages are in woody? You may find them in snapshot.debian.net or, hmm, recompile. Anyway it's a security risk, because these packages aren't supported anymore. Some AlphaServer are quite picky with their video card. Generally S3 is a good choice and there are such cards which do run in Xorg without that old stuff. IIRC Elsa Winner was one. Regards, Adrian. Gary Lee Phillips wrote: I have a Personal Workstation 433au with an S3 86c764/765 (Trio 32/64/64+) graphics card in it. This works with Windows and with OpenVMS just fine. I assume it was working with Tru64 UNIX as well, as that is what was installed when I obtained this box. However, I can't find a suitable X driver or configuration to get this card to work even at plain VGA levels with Alpha Linux. Logically, the s3 driver should do the trick but no matter what I try, it doesn't activate the card. DEC did sell a lot of these with that card in them, I believe, and it seems as if we must have support for it buried somewhere. However, even the man page for the s3 driver is missing from the current distribution, though the driver is still included. I could actually live without X on this machine, since it works well enough as a client to other machines. However, I really would like to at least have a shell interface from the console, and even that does not work. Booting from SRM (which finds the keyboard and video card without difficulty) I do get the bootup messages right up to the point at which Apache loads. I think this is part of init level 3. Then the display stops updating, and the keyboard is unresponsive. The system finishes booting and can be reached via ssh from another node, though. What do I have to do to keep the attached keyboard and monitor working? --Gary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
Yes, I'm back again. I can get the S3 Trio64 to operate using the Xorg vga driver, but only in monochrome mode. In theory, it should work with the fbdev and vesa drivers, but I've had no success with either one. The vesa driver says Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration. This really doesn't make sense to me, because I have working modelines for the VGA driver. The fbdev driver says No devices detected which does make sense, since I have no /dev/fb0 devices. However, the kernel seems to be using a framebuffer to address the video, and that works. I assume it's a built-in function of the kernel and inaccessible to fbdev? Searching on the web, I find that the Intel distributions do have a framebuffer driver for the original S3 Trio cards as well as S3 Virge. The current name for it is s3fb, though it was at one time called s3trio. This appears not to have been ported into the Alpha configuration. Is that correct? I realize that in some respects these are Xorg development issues, but all the support sources I can find over there are strictly Intel folks. Is there a proper place to discuss X-related issues and questions with Alpha developers? --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
On Mon 05 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: There was a commercially available driver, but it wasn't open source and had a $100 licensing fee. I remember that very specifically. I was irritated because IBM was selling machines with Linux (RedHat) preinstalled, yet they had the Matrox card in them and no driver. Typical. In http://xfree.org/3.3.6/MGA.html , dated December 1998, the support for the Matrox is described; in one of the underlying pages: * Makes extensive use of the graphics accelerator. This server is very well accelerated, and is one of the fastest XFree86 X servers. That's exactly what I remember. Paul Slootman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 11/6/07, Paul Slootman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In http://xfree.org/3.3.6/MGA.html , dated December 1998, the support for the Matrox is described; in one of the underlying pages: * Makes extensive use of the graphics accelerator. This server is very well accelerated, and is one of the fastest XFree86 X servers. That's exactly what I remember. Then I've remembered the date of my experience with the IBM server incorrectly. It must have been earlier than that, perhaps late 1996 or early 1997. --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 11/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gary, I had the same problem wirh my two Alphaserver 4100 and the trio video card. It was working fine in RedHat 7, but never in debian. Boring spending so much time with that configuration issue, I bought 2 used matrox millenium (also certified for that system) 10 eur per card. It's ironic that you should mention Matrox. Back in 1999-2000 I had this kind of trouble with the Matrox Millennium and RedHat. At that time Matrox was one of those proprietary secret interfaces and XFree had no good driver for it. As it happens, I wanted a card that would work for OpenVMS, and since this Trio64 was working in the Alpha before I got it, it seemed a good choice. It works perfectly with OpenVMS, so I'll deal with the Linux problem somehow. Judging by the error messages from X, it may be that probing is not working properly. I need to find out the address for the video bios and buffers and specify those in the config to see if that helps. --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
On Mon 05 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: On 11/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boring spending so much time with that configuration issue, I bought 2 used matrox millenium (also certified for that system) 10 eur per card. It's ironic that you should mention Matrox. Back in 1999-2000 I had this kind of trouble with the Matrox Millennium and RedHat. At that time Matrox was one of those proprietary secret interfaces and XFree had no good driver for it. Hmm, as I remember it, when I got my DEC XLT300 (January 1998), it had a Matrox Millenium and that worked perfectly for X under Debian. Paul Slootman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: S3 Trio64 support
There was a commercially available driver, but it wasn't open source and had a $100 licensing fee. I remember that very specifically. I was irritated because IBM was selling machines with Linux (RedHat) preinstalled, yet they had the Matrox card in them and no driver. Typical. --Gary On 11/5/07, Paul Slootman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon 05 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: On 11/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boring spending so much time with that configuration issue, I bought 2 used matrox millenium (also certified for that system) 10 eur per card. It's ironic that you should mention Matrox. Back in 1999-2000 I had this kind of trouble with the Matrox Millennium and RedHat. At that time Matrox was one of those proprietary secret interfaces and XFree had no good driver for it. Hmm, as I remember it, when I got my DEC XLT300 (January 1998), it had a Matrox Millenium and that worked perfectly for X under Debian. Paul Slootman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 04/11/2007 00:28:55, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: I have a Personal Workstation 433au with an S3 86c764/765 (Trio 32/64/64+) graphics card in it. This works with Windows and with OpenVMS just fine. I assume it was working with Tru64 UNIX as well, as that is what was installed when I obtained this box. However, I can't find a suitable X driver or configuration to get this card to work even at plain VGA levels with Alpha Linux. Logically, the s3 driver should do the trick but no matter what I try, it doesn't activate the card. DEC did sell a lot of these with that card in them, I believe, and it seems as if we must have support for it buried somewhere. However, even the man page for the s3 driver is missing from the current distribution, though the driver is still included. Hello Gary! :) The card should be supported by the 's3' video driver. In Etch, we have version 1:0.4.1-5 which is not the latest release (version 1:0.5.0-4) It seems that the driver is bugged and failing, but by now, there is no issue in bugreport: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkgdata= xserver-xorg-video-s3archive=noversion=dist=stable Please try 'Xorg -configure' that prepares a new xorg.conf in your ~home. Then use 'Xorg -config new-config-file' If it doesn't work, then the driver is buggy and please open a bug report. In the testing stage of Etch, I had the same problem with Voodoo 5/5500 and MGA G450. Hence it was a problem common to all drivers. Today, those X drivers work on my PWS 500a. I could actually live without X on this machine, since it works well enough as a client to other machines. However, I really would like to at least have a shell interface from the console, and even that does not work. Booting from SRM (which finds the keyboard and video card without difficulty) I do get the bootup messages right up to the point at which Apache loads. I think this is part of init level 3. Then the display stops updating, and the keyboard is unresponsive. The system finishes booting and can be reached via ssh from another node, though. What do I have to do to keep the attached keyboard and monitor working? Debian only uses runlevel 2 for everything, including X. If I understand correctly, you see boot messages on the console, but at last it becomes black or unreadable. It should be X that loads and makes the card unworking. You should boot by SRM appending the parameter 's' or '1' to boot in a runlevel where X doesn't load. Then remove (or use update-rc.d) the symlink in /etc/rc2.d/ that points to a login manager (xdm|kdm|gdm|wdm|whatever-else-dm) Tipically, it should be /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm After removing, you should boot up to a point where X doesn't load. Bye! gl
Re: S3 Trio64 support
Thanks for the hints. Unfortunately, without documentation on the setup of the s3 driver, I'm not sure that it isn't just my error that keeps it from working. That makes me reluctant to report my problems as a bug or defect in the software. In fact, I'm still not sure whether I should be using s3 or s3virge. I've been using 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' to try out different X configurations, but I'll give your command a try. The other issue, about the text console going dead during boot, though, seems to be something else. I had this machine running without using the graphics at all. When I first set it up, I didn't have a keyboard and monitor handy for it, so I installed it to use the serial port as a console. I think what must be happening is that the console gets switched to the serial port at just that point, and of course I've disconnected the other terminal from that port. So I need to figure out how to change that. In some distributions it would mean compiling or at least loading a new kernel. I'm not sure in Debian though whether I have to do that or just change a configuration option somewhere. Slackware would let me replace the kernel alone from the installation CD, for instance. But when I tried that with Debian it wanted to repartition the drive and reinstall everything. Obviously that's not my goal, I have the system all set up and customized now. --Gary On 11/4/07, Gianluca Bonetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gary! :) The card should be supported by the 's3' video driver. In Etch, we have version 1:0.4.1-5 which is not the latest release (version 1:0.5.0-4) It seems that the driver is bugged and failing, but by now, there is no issue in bugreport: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkgdata= xserver-xorg-video-s3archive=noversion=dist=stable Please try 'Xorg -configure' that prepares a new xorg.conf in your ~home. Then use 'Xorg -config new-config-file' If it doesn't work, then the driver is buggy and please open a bug report. In the testing stage of Etch, I had the same problem with Voodoo 5/5500 and MGA G450. Hence it was a problem common to all drivers. Today, those X drivers work on my PWS 500a. I could actually live without X on this machine, since it works well enough as a client to other machines. However, I really would like to at least have a shell interface from the console, and even that does not work. Booting from SRM (which finds the keyboard and video card without difficulty) I do get the bootup messages right up to the point at which Apache loads. I think this is part of init level 3. Then the display stops updating, and the keyboard is unresponsive. The system finishes booting and can be reached via ssh from another node, though. What do I have to do to keep the attached keyboard and monitor working? Debian only uses runlevel 2 for everything, including X. If I understand correctly, you see boot messages on the console, but at last it becomes black or unreadable. It should be X that loads and makes the card unworking. You should boot by SRM appending the parameter 's' or '1' to boot in a runlevel where X doesn't load. Then remove (or use update-rc.d) the symlink in /etc/rc2.d/ that points to a login manager (xdm|kdm|gdm|wdm|whatever-else-dm) Tipically, it should be /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm After removing, you should boot up to a point where X doesn't load. Bye! gl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 04/11/2007 13:59:54, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: Thanks for the hints. Unfortunately, without documentation on the setup of the s3 driver, I'm not sure that it isn't just my error that keeps it from working. That makes me reluctant to report my problems as a bug or defect in the software. In fact, I'm still not sure whether I should be using s3 or s3virge. I've been using 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' to try out different X configurations, but I'll give your command a try. Hello! You should use s3 driver, s3virge driver is for S3 Virge, not S3 Trio. Xorg -configure will create automagically a file for your needs. If it doesn't work with that file, then it is either a bug in the driver, or an unsupported card (strange, but could be) The other issue, about the text console going dead during boot, though, seems to be something else. I had this machine running without using the graphics at all. When I first set it up, I didn't have a keyboard and monitor handy for it, so I installed it to use the serial port as a console. I think what must be happening is that the console gets switched to the serial port at just that point, and of course I've disconnected the other terminal from that port. So I need to figure out how to change that. In some distributions it would mean compiling or at least loading a new kernel. I'm not sure in Debian though whether I have to do that or just change a configuration option somewhere. Slackware would let me replace the kernel alone from the installation CD, for instance. But when I tried that with Debian it wanted to repartition the drive and reinstall everything. Obviously that's not my goal, I have the system all set up and customized now. Of course it doesn't need niether a kernel recompinling nor a setup from install CD. You only have to delete the console redirection setting in aboot.conf, simply delete a setting like console=ttyS1,115200 from the kernel line. Bye gl
Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 11/4/07, Gianluca Bonetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should use s3 driver, s3virge driver is for S3 Virge, not S3 Trio. Xorg -configure will create automagically a file for your needs. If it doesn't work with that file, then it is either a bug in the driver, or an unsupported card (strange, but could be) Your suggested configuration method 'Xorg -configure' does in fact select the s3 driver, so that seems to be correct. I pulled the card out to look at it, and the S3 chip in it is 86C764X, that is Trio64 Plug and Play. Perhaps that is the issue, it needs to be configured by plug and play in some way that is not happening in Linux. I rechecked to make sure I have the correct scan ranges for the monitor, and checked the chips on the card to make sure I have the correct RAM size, which I do. When I run X, it gives one error message, V_BIOS not found, but it does continue to run. Unfortunately it just produces a colorful pattern on the screen, nothing coherent or meaningful. When X is killed (the keyboard CTRL-ALT-BS doesn't work, by the way) the pattern remains on the screen, so the s3 driver is initializing the card in some way, just not the proper one. Of course it doesn't need niether a kernel recompinling nor a setup from install CD. You only have to delete the console redirection setting in aboot.conf, simply delete a setting like console=ttyS1,115200 from the kernel line. I thought that too, but aboot.conf doesn't have any console specification included. I checked my theory by connecting a laptop to the serial port, though, and it seems I was right that the console is switching to the serial port when init mode 2 completes. The monitor screen simply stops updating at that point and is frozen. It doesn't blank or anything. The keyboard goes dead. The laptop then receives the login message and prompt. If I log in from the laptop and shut the system down, console messages then go to the laptop until the halt, when control is transferred to SRM and the SRM messages appear again on the monitor attached to the system. It's very strange to me. Thanks for your help, anyway. --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: S3 Trio64 support
On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: I thought that too, but aboot.conf doesn't have any console specification included. I checked my theory by connecting a laptop to the serial port, though, and it seems I was right that the console is switching to the serial port when init mode 2 completes. The monitor screen simply stops updating at that point and is frozen. It doesn't blank or anything. The keyboard goes dead. The laptop then receives the login message and prompt. If I log in from the laptop and shut the system down, console messages then go to the laptop until the halt, when control is transferred to SRM and the SRM messages appear again on the monitor attached to the system. It's very strange to me. In which case you should look at /etc/inittab and add (or uncomment) some lines like the following: 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 You can leave the gettys for the serial lines (which have -L ttyS0 or similar) uncommented as well. -- # TRS-80 trs80(a)ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au #/ Otherwise Bub here will do \ # UCC Wheel Member http://trs80.ucc.asn.au/ #| what squirrels do best | [ There's nobody getting rich writing ]| -- Collect and hide your | [ software that I know of -- Bill Gates, 1980 ]\ nuts. -- Acid Reflux #231 / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: S3 Trio64 support
On 11/4/07, James Andrewartha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: In which case you should look at /etc/inittab and add (or uncomment) some lines like the following: 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 ...[snip] D'oh! Thanks. I do know about that but haven't had to touch inittab in so many years that I completely forgot to look. You're right, that seems to have solved the text console part of the problem. Now I don't have to ssh in from another machine in order to shut the Alpha down. --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Antwort: Re: S3 Trio64 support
Hello Gary, I had the same problem wirh my two Alphaserver 4100 and the trio video card. It was working fine in RedHat 7, but never in debian. Boring spending so much time with that configuration issue, I bought 2 used matrox millenium (also certified for that system) 10 eur per card. I was wondering that X in woody with XF86 never was working with that really well known card. I could boot to console, but after starting X, I had the same problems as you describe - no display, no mouse, no keyboard only ssh. After upgrading to etch and Xorg (7) everything works perfect now. May be upgrading to that card is and option for you, the correct name of the interface is: VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA 2064W [Millennium] (rev 01) Hope that helps. Steffen. Gary Lee Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 04.11.2007 22:07:55: On 11/4/07, James Andrewartha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, Gary Lee Phillips wrote: In which case you should look at /etc/inittab and add (or uncomment) some lines like the following: 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 ...[snip] D'oh! Thanks. I do know about that but haven't had to touch inittab in so many years that I completely forgot to look. You're right, that seems to have solved the text console part of the problem. Now I don't have to ssh in from another machine in order to shut the Alpha down. --Gary -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
