Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
Manoj Srivastava (2008-12-17 17:02 -0600) wrote: If there is sufficient support, we could also scrap the current vote, change our ballot, add options to it, or something, and restart the vote, but that would need a strong grass roots support (I do not think the secretary has the power to do so). I don't know if non-developers' opinions count but since from the outside Debian seems to be pretty much an open community I'll voice my opinion anyway. I've been following the firmware and voting discussion very closely and I think that changing and restarting the vote would _definitely_ be the right thing. In a democratic decision-making it's too dangerous to conduct a ballot which (many) people can't trust. I think this is clearly the case here: many seemingly intelligent people with good arguments are unhappy with the ballot, how it is organized etc., and will likely have hard time trusting the results. This ballot may potentially cause damage for Debian. So, no matter whose fault the current situation is or who has the constitutional power to do what. I think the most important thing is to act towards maintaining people's trust to the decision-making process. May I suggest restarting the discussion and vote? Please? (Just an opinion from a happy Debian Lenny user. Thank you for creating and working for such a great operating system.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
* Emilio Pozuelo Monfort: Description : automatic proxy configuration management library libproxy is a lightweight library which makes it easy to develop applications proxy-aware with a simple and stable API. WPAD is a broken protocol with security issues inherent to the DNS devolution mechanism (which is also performed by libproxy). Please don't add implementations to the Debian archive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
Hi Dne Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:45:47 +1100 Brian May br...@microcomaustralia.com.au napsal(a): Margarita Manterola wrote: If we do all this, we would be voting: A) If we trust or not the release team on making the right choices of which bugs to ignore and which not (regardless of this being firmware issues or what have you). This is from now on, not just for Lenny. B) If we want to allow sourceless firmware in Debian, defining firmware in a way that doesn't give a waiver to anything else without source. This is also from now on, not just for Lenny. But it's only for firmware, not for everything with licensing problems. C) If we want to allow stuff with some problems into Lenny, as we already did for Sarge and Etch. These three issues are obviously related, but are NOT the same issue, a positive result in one does not determine what happens to the others. And creating one mega ballot with all the different possibilities, only creates confusion and frustration. So, this should be three independent ballots. I think the concern is, what if the results conflict? e.g. if we get a No for (C) but Yes for (A). We trust the release team to make the right choices but we don't trust them to make the right choices for Lenny? My suggestion would be to vote for (C) first, and then decide the wording on (A) and (B) depending on the outcome of (C). In which case, even if there is a conflict, the wording can clarify if the second vote overrides or doesn't override the first result. This makes sense. I really do not like way current vote mixes different things. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 09:30:21AM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: * Emilio Pozuelo Monfort: Description : automatic proxy configuration management library libproxy is a lightweight library which makes it easy to develop applications proxy-aware with a simple and stable API. WPAD is a broken protocol with security issues inherent to the DNS devolution mechanism (which is also performed by libproxy). Please don't add implementations to the Debian archive. As I understand it, this library is made so that application writers don't duplicate the code all over the place. If you have a better method for proxy configuration (which doesn't include changing the network all over the world in order to use it), maybe the GNOME project can use that instead. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509094: ITP: libxml-rss-libxml-perl -- create and update RSS files using XML::LibXML
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Damyan Ivanov d...@debian.org * Package name: libxml-rss-libxml-perl Version : 0.3003 Upstream Author : Daisuke Maki dm...@cpan.org, Tatsuhiko Miyagawa miyag...@bulknews.net * URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/XML-RSS-LibXML/ * License : same as Perl (Artistic or GPL-1+) Programming Lang: Perl Description : create and update RSS files using XML::LibXML XML::RSS::LibXML uses XML::LibXML (libxml2) for parsing RSS instead of XML::RSS' XML::Parser (expat), while trying to keep interface compatibility with XML::RSS. XML::RSS is an extremely handy tool, but it is unfortunately not exactly the most lean or efficient RSS parser, especially in a long-running process. Use this module when you have severe performance requirements working with RSS files. -=-=-=-=-=-=- The package is a dependency of clive-utils (which was split off clive upstream) and will be maintained by the Debian Perl Group. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509095: ITP: libhtml-strip-perl -- strip HTML markup from text
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Damyan Ivanov d...@debian.org * Package name: libhtml-strip-perl Version : 1.06 Upstream Author : Alex Bowley kilin...@cpan.org * URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTML-Strip/ * License : same as Perl (Artistic or GPL-1+) Programming Lang: C (Perl XS) Description : strip HTML markup from text HTML::Strip simply strips HTML-like markup from text in a very quick and brutal manner. It could quite easily be used to strip XML or SGML from text as well. It is written in XS, and thus about five times quicker than using regular expressions for the same task. It does not do any syntax checking (if you want that, use HTML::Parser). -=-=-=-=-=- Needed by clive-utils 2.0.0. Will be maintained by the Debian Perl Group. Help preparing the actual package under DPG SVN trunk/ appreciated. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de writes: * Emilio Pozuelo Monfort: Description : automatic proxy configuration management library libproxy is a lightweight library which makes it easy to develop applications proxy-aware with a simple and stable API. WPAD is a broken protocol with security issues inherent to the DNS devolution mechanism (which is also performed by libproxy). Agreed. Still, it is implemented and used by a number of web proxy using applications. Please don't add implementations to the Debian archive. Isn't the intention to replace existing and future implementations with this library, thereby confining security issues to a single library? How many WPAD implementations are there currently in the archive? Won't adding this library be an improvement in the long run? I would very much like this library to become the *only* WPAD implementation anywhere. Hopefully eventually with some ability to define local policies, where the default Debian policy could be very strict. E.g. Never trust DNS for WPAD, or Never use WPAD at all. Bjørn -- How can you say that trees are bad -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
On Dec 18, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Teemu Likonen wrote: Manoj Srivastava (2008-12-17 17:02 -0600) wrote: If there is sufficient support, we could also scrap the current vote, change our ballot, add options to it, or something, and restart the vote, but that would need a strong grass roots support (I do not think the secretary has the power to do so). I don't know if non-developers' opinions count but since from the outside Debian seems to be pretty much an open community I'll voice my opinion anyway. I've been following the firmware and voting discussion very closely and I think that changing and restarting the vote would _definitely_ be the right thing. As another non-DD but active debian packager hoping to become a DD, I would also like to voice my support, in a grassroots style, for re- structuring the general resolution(s). Jeremiah -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:45:02PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: It seems that the grass-roots support for doing something quite different to the current vote includes me, Brian, and quite a few bloggers on Planet Debian. I don't like the current vote either and wouldn't mind if it was canceled. My suggestion is to do a very simple vote first, with only two choices: a) continue with the release process and don't wait for further GRs Of course this means, effectively, that we do trust the release team and other developers involved in the release process b) wait with the lenny release until we made decisions on the open issues This means that we don't want do be hasty, take our time to agree what the open issues are, how they could be resolved and what further GRs are necessary to finally decide on these matters. The third option, further discussion, could be included on the ballot for completeness, but as it is roughly equivalent to I don't want to delay lenny but I don't want to release it in it's current state either, it's only for people who really can't decide what they want :-) IMHO we have to bite the bullet: Either we release lenny without agreeing on the DFSG issues first, or we delay lenny. As the vote suggested above is only sensible if lenny isn't delayed by the vote itself, it would be good to start it ASAP and do it with a shortened voting period. Jan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991 From the above news article: # Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's abuse # of the ability to post to the d-d-a mailing list, I asked our mailing list # administrators to remove that privilege for in future. http://np237.livejournal.com/21451.html http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html Josselin's most offensive behaviour is in the form of blog posts syndicated by Planet Debian, above are links to the two most recent ones. He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop disagreeing. As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of Debian. http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct I believe that we need a code of conduct for the Planet. The Ubuntu code of conduct seems like a good starting point. They have CC licenced their code of conduct and encourage others to copy it. http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7963 The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project. -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Bjørn Mork bm...@dod.no wrote: Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de writes: I would very much like this library to become the *only* WPAD implementation anywhere. Hopefully eventually with some ability to define local policies, where the default Debian policy could be very strict. E.g. Never trust DNS for WPAD, or Never use WPAD at all. I tend to agree, we have not forbidden root to do rm -arf . It is the same, it is a policy problem. With current libproxy, could root forbid the use of WPAD, even if user ask it? Regards Bastien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote: As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do not belong on Planet Debian - which is for many people the public face of Debian. To be clear, this means that as the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, you want to censor him? -- _hug...@earth.li -+*+- fou, con et anglais _ (_) Even if it does matter, does it matter that it matters? - (_) (_)Marvin(_) \______/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problems with the concept of unstable - testing
On Dec 16, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Noah Slater wrote: To be honest, I'd prefer if Bastian applied his skills to helping a project I'm not a member of. I am not going to comment on his behaviour, your comments may very well be justified. But I do think it would do the project some good if we all learnt to embrace each others commitment levels, attitudes and opinions -- without resorting to rudeness, unkindness, or personal attacks. Well said. This is an attitude that can serve debian well. Regards, Jeremiah -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit : The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project. What do you want to say, actually? Apart from the fact (that we all already know) that you can’t tolerate the very idea that people can have an approach to human relationships different from yours? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
Hello, I've started a new thread because follow 2 very long thread starts being a little tedious. This voice is coming out more and more strong lately: why don't we simply delete the current gr_lenny and start another ballot, only focusing on the *real* lenny release? All other options must go into other ballot, or more than one, let's talk about that. In the current form of gr_vote, I think very few DD can say they have voted in a way that can express their really feelings, and for example I'm not sure I can vote to archive my goal the way the ballot is expressed now. So, how many are in favor of redo *completely* the vote (in more ballot, the first being the one for lenny ONLY)? how many should we be to let it happen? how many should be in contrary to stop this re-vote? how can we express the need for a better vote to let our beloved lenny be released? Cheers, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, Morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:22:40PM +0100, Sandro Tosi wrote: So, how many are in favor of redo *completely* the vote (in more ballot, the first being the one for lenny ONLY)? how many should we be to let it happen? how many should be in contrary to stop this re-vote? how can we express the need for a better vote to let our beloved lenny be released? I'm against stopping the current vote. Let's wait for the outcome, and after that hold new votes for options that are still relevant then. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen g...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:04:24PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
As the Debian culture is opposed to censorship, I believe that such posts do
not belong on Planet Debian
This sounds like an oxymoron to me.
FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally
unrelated to Debian on Planet Debian (even though I enjoy _sporadic_
OTs) than by Joss posts.
A planet is just a planet, i.e. an aggregation of blogs which by their
own nature can contain strong opinions and strong way of expressing
them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
official message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
appropriately blamed for), Planet is something else.
Live with that.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 13:04:24 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit : The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project. I have that feeling that you are using the project to express personal disagrement. Why don't you rephrase this using I instead of the project ? I had some strong discussions with Joss, but I would never support such proposition. By the way, this is yet another recursive trolling subject. I can probably start the discussion on COPYING files are not DFSG now :-) Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
* Russell Coker: The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. I don't think it's fair to hold Josselin responsible for what that particular author writes, no matter what you think of his actions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: Hi, them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an official message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list. Check the descriptions for both lists on lists.debian.org. JB. -- Julien BLACHE - Debian GNU/Linux Developer - jbla...@debian.org Public key available on http://www.jblache.org - KeyID: F5D6 5169 GPG Fingerprint : 935A 79F1 C8B3 3521 FD62 7CC7 CD61 4FD7 F5D6 5169 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 02:34:09PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote:
them. Your implicit assumption that Planet Debian conveys an
official message to our community is totally unsound IMO. We have
d-d-a for our official message (yes, Joss abused that, and has been
Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in
debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list.
You are a bit picky, you know? :-)
Yes: I know the difference between d-d-a and debian-announce, I
skimmed over it in my post because I don't think the difference affect
in any way my argument. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:22:40PM +0100, Sandro Tosi wrote: So, how many are in favor of redo *completely* the vote (in more ballot, the first being the one for lenny ONLY)? how many should we be to let it happen? how many should be in contrary to stop this re-vote? how can we express the need for a better vote to let our beloved lenny be released? I'm against stopping the current vote. Let's wait for the outcome, and after that hold new votes for options that are still relevant then. Do we have any well-defined procedure to stop/cancel a GR (in progress)? If not, is it the DPL to decide, based on what is voiced on this list? Shouldn't people just say Further discussion in their votes to express such concerns (in terms of a vote)? Best, Michael pgpK2MVBfTI3R.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 02:59:52PM +0100, Michael Tautschnig wrote: Do we have any well-defined procedure to stop/cancel a GR (in progress)? If not, is it the DPL to decide, based on what is voiced on this list? Shouldn't people just say Further discussion in their votes to express such concerns (in terms of a vote)? Certainly, if there are enough people putting Further discussion at the top, the GR is effectively canceled. And even if Further discussion does not win, those who oppose of the current ballot can still specify their preferences for the other options. AFAIK, it's also possible for those people who already voted and are now changing their mind after reading these discussions to recast their vote. -- Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Guus Sliepen g...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: Hi, Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list. You are a bit picky, you know? :-) I don't think so; setting the record straight isn't being picky :) Yes: I know the difference between d-d-a and debian-announce, I skimmed over it in my post because I don't think the difference affect in any way my argument. Feel free to prove me wrong. I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say anything official is project communication, that effectively goes to debian-announce. I essentially wanted to set the record straight as various things have been written about d-d-a and its purpose after Joss' post, here and elsewhere, mistaking d-d-a for d-a. JB. -- Julien BLACHE - Debian GNU/Linux Developer - jbla...@debian.org Public key available on http://www.jblache.org - KeyID: F5D6 5169 GPG Fingerprint : 935A 79F1 C8B3 3521 FD62 7CC7 CD61 4FD7 F5D6 5169 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On 12/18/08 06:26, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 23:04 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit : The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project. What do you want to say, actually? Apart from the fact (that we all already know) that you can’t tolerate the very idea that people can have an approach to human relationships different from yours? Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA How does being physically handicapped make me Differently-Abled? What different abilities do I have? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:15:38PM +0100, Julien BLACHE wrote: Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: Hi, Official announcements to the outside world actually appear in debian-announce; debian-devel-announce is a developer list. You are a bit picky, you know? :-) I don't think so; setting the record straight isn't being picky :) Yes: I know the difference between d-d-a and debian-announce, I skimmed over it in my post because I don't think the difference affect in any way my argument. Feel free to prove me wrong. I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. Wrong. While in /theory/ it might be for developers, in /practise/, d-d-a is consumed by the public as a prime source of important information regarding Debian besides debian-announce and debian-news. The fact that Debian Developers are supposed ot read it does not mean others do not, and there is not much we can do about this at this point. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:28:12PM +0100, Jan Niehusmann wrote: I don't like the current vote either and wouldn't mind if it was canceled. My suggestion is to do a very simple vote first, with only two choices: a) continue with the release process and don't wait for further GRs Of course this means, effectively, that we do trust the release team and other developers involved in the release process b) wait with the lenny release until we made decisions on the open issues This means that we don't want do be hasty, take our time to agree what the open issues are, how they could be resolved and what further GRs are necessary to finally decide on these matters. The third option, further discussion, could be included on the ballot for completeness, but as it is roughly equivalent to I don't want to delay lenny but I don't want to release it in it's current state either, it's only for people who really can't decide what they want :-) IMHO we have to bite the bullet: Either we release lenny without agreeing on the DFSG issues first, or we delay lenny. As the vote suggested above is only sensible if lenny isn't delayed by the vote itself, it would be good to start it ASAP and do it with a shortened voting period. I support this suggestion and would like to see the current vote abandoned. Dominic. -- Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/ PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit : I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. Wrong. While in /theory/ it might be for developers, in /practise/, d-d-a is consumed by the public as a prime source of important information regarding Debian besides debian-announce and debian-news. The fact that Debian Developers are supposed ot read it does not mean others do not, and there is not much we can do about this at this point. With this kind of sloppy argument, everything that anyone interested in Debian may read should be considered as official, including the planet. I somehow don't really believe you are being right :) Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509110: ITP: devide -- Delft Visualization and Image processing Development Environment
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Mathieu Malaterre mathieu.malate...@gmail.com * Package name: devide Version : 8.5 Upstream Author : Charl P. Botha c.p.bo...@tudelft.nl * URL : http://code.google.com/p/devide/ * License : BSD Programming Lang: Python Description : Delft Visualization and Image processing Development Environment DeVIDE, or the Delft Visualization and Image processing Development Environment, is a Python-based dataflow application builder that enables the rapid prototyping of medical visualization and image processing applications via visual programming. In other words, by visually connecting functional blocks (think Yahoo pipes), you can create cool visualizations. See the DeVIDE website at http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/Projects/DeVIDE -- System Information: Debian Release: 4.0 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable'), (50, 'testing'), (40, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-amd64 Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
I hereby resign as secretary
Hi folks, I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. I was planning on leaving the office soon, anyway, but I had a rewrite of Devotee underway, which would have made the software more useful for different people (different checks --LDAP.gpg. and others), and allowed Devotee to be packaged as essentially a perl library, with vote protocols being perl scripts (debian-vote --config gr_lenny.cfg). But that is no longer a compelling reason to stay on. In the years I have spent in this role since Darren left us, I have tried to conduct the votes as I saw the rquirements of the constitution, and the limitations of the voting software. But this not a view shared by very many people. I concede that I have made mistakes with the current set of votes. And the arguments being made now, after the vote was called and started, are fairly compelling. But these arguments could have been made when the vote page went up, when I was sending in the emails about which option had how many seconds, or when the draft ballot was sent in. There are, in my opinion, far more cogent arguments being offered now, than there were in the discussion period, and had these being made earlier, we would not have come to this pass. But that is merely an excuse. The buck fir running votes stops at the secretary, so I am ultimately responsible for the current state of the vote. And I am begnning to see that the ballot was wrong. Mistakes happen. Mistakes can be recovered from. What can not, however, is relationships, and trust, and this works both ways. It has been made clear to me that the project no longer trusts me, and many consider that I have been the epitome of sleaze over the years, manipulating votes for my own ends. That hurts. I have also read planet. The amount of vitriol there makes it untenable for me to participate in any efforts to recover from this mess. Life is too short. This is way too much stress at a point in my life where there is too much stress to deal with. I am asking the DSA to remove me from the debvote group, effective now. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. While I must say that the mistake for this ballot lies at my door, I am very distressed at the amount of vitriol that saturates the project communication channels now. Subjectively, this seems worse now than the flame filled days of yore -- because, back then, despite the apparent flames, people used to be amicable and friendly with the people they occasionally had heated discussion with. That seems to have passed, with real meanness being far more prevalent than before. Any way. Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish. manoj -- Freedom from incrustation of grime is contiguous to rectitude. Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C pgpMeGlL4BYCP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
- Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. I was planning on leaving the office soon, anyway, but I had a rewrite of Devotee underway, which would have made the software more useful for different people (different checks --LDAP.gpg. and others), and allowed Devotee to be packaged as essentially a perl library, with vote protocols being perl scripts (debian-vote --config gr_lenny.cfg). But that is no longer a compelling reason to stay on. Man, what a drag. I appreciate that you are between a rock and a hard place with this one. Thanks for the hard work. I'm mighty curious who wants to sign up for this beating next. -- Ean Schuessler, CTO Brainfood.com e...@brainfood.com - http://www.brainfood.com - 214-720-0700 x 315 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509113: ITP: opensourcepacs -- OpenSourcePACS is a free, open source image referral, archiving, routing and viewing system
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Mathieu Malaterre mathieu.malate...@gmail.com * Package name: opensourcepacs Version : 1.2.1 Upstream Author : UCLA Medical Imaging Informatics group * URL : http://www.mii.ucla.edu/opensourcepacs/ * License : LGPL Programming Lang: Java Description : OpenSourcePACS is a free, open source image referral, archiving, routing and viewing system It adds functionality beyond conventional PACS by integrating wet read functions, implemented through DICOM Presentation State and Structured Reporting standards. In its first release, OpenSourcePACS delivers a complete wet read system, enabling an imaging clinic or hospital to offer its services over the web to physicians within or outside the institution. In future releases, we hope to incorporate more RIS (dictation, transcription, and reporting) functionality. -- System Information: Debian Release: 4.0 APT prefers stable APT policy: (500, 'stable'), (50, 'testing'), (40, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-amd64 Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:53:09PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote: Le Thursday 18 December 2008 15:45:05 Michael Banck, vous avez écrit : I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. Wrong. While in /theory/ it might be for developers, in /practise/, d-d-a is consumed by the public as a prime source of important information regarding Debian besides debian-announce and debian-news. The fact that Debian Developers are supposed ot read it does not mean others do not, and there is not much we can do about this at this point. With this kind of sloppy argument, everything that anyone interested in Debian may read should be considered as official, including the planet. Like it or not, messages to d-d-a are frequently forwarded verbatim to LWN and other major IT-centered news sources. This happen much less frequently with other Debian sources, besides, of course, debian-news and debian-announce. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509115: ITP: halevt -- Generic handler for HAL events
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Mike O'Connor s...@debian.org * Package name: halevt Version : 0.1.3 Upstream Author : Patrice Dumas pertu...@free.fr * URL : http://www.environnement.ens.fr/perso/dumas/halevt.html * License : GPL Programming Lang: C Description : Generic handler for HAL events halevt is a daemon that acts as a policy agent on top of HAL. It listens to HAL events and reacts with user-configurable actions. It is a reimplementation of the new dead ivman project. . Among other things, halevt is useful as an automount daemon that will mount removable devices but with a much smaller set of dependencies than tools such as gnome-volume-manager. -- System Information: Debian Release: lenny/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Julien BLACHE wrote: I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say anything official is project communication, that effectively goes to debian-announce. d-d-a has 5700 subscribers [1] and is archived/mirrored around the world. Non-developers by far outnumber developers in subscribing that list. It doesn't really matter, if it's an 'officially endorsed' message from the project or not, the point is it was an 'announcement' and it was perceived as inappropriate (not only OT) by many. I essentially wanted to set the record straight as various things have been written about d-d-a and its purpose after Joss' post, here and elsewhere, mistaking d-d-a for d-a. No doubt, the harm would have been bigger, if it had been posted to d-a instead. But even then some would argue that it's not so bad, because it could have been even worse... Cheers, Johannes [1] http://lists.debian.org/stats/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklKbkIACgkQC1NzPRl9qEXnZACffbM4Pekz85rTbIR0XMNrsltt o8MAn0wcI7FMr4WH/wz2HjeQwJJcSSas =UbWY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509113: ITP: opensourcepacs -- OpenSourcePACS is a free, open source image referral, archiving, routing and viewing system
Hi! * Package name: opensourcepacs Version : 1.2.1 Upstream Author : UCLA Medical Imaging Informatics group * URL : http://www.mii.ucla.edu/opensourcepacs/ * License : LGPL Programming Lang: Java Description : OpenSourcePACS is a free, open source image referral, archiving, routing and viewing system The Description is too long and contains the package name, which does not make much sense. Also it is obvious that the package is free and opensource, otherwise ti wouldn't be in main. So a short description would be something like Image referral, archiving, routing and viewing system It adds functionality beyond conventional PACS by integrating wet read functions, implemented through DICOM Presentation State and Structured Reporting standards. In its first release, OpenSourcePACS delivers a complete wet read system, enabling an imaging clinic or hospital to offer its services over the web to physicians within or outside the institution. In future releases, we hope to incorporate more RIS (dictation, transcription, and reporting) functionality. This i snot really a descriptions, sounds more like an advertising. Also it is not obious what PACS is, and why read functiones need to be wet Please fix this before uploading the package. Cheers, Bernd -- Bernd Zeimetz Debian GNU/Linux Developer GPG Fingerprint: 06C8 C9A2 EAAD E37E 5B2C BE93 067A AD04 C93B FF79 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On 2008-12-18, Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org wrote: As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I don't like this. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. And I think you are important to the project. /Sune While I must say that the mistake for this ballot lies at my door, I am very distressed at the amount of vitriol that saturates the project communication channels now. Subjectively, this seems worse now than the flame filled days of yore -- because, back then, despite the apparent flames, people used to be amicable and friendly with the people they occasionally had heated discussion with. That seems to have passed, with real meanness being far more prevalent than before. Any way. Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish. manoj =2D-=20 Freedom from incrustation of grime is contiguous to rectitude. Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/= =20=20 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature --=-=-=-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote: He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop disagreeing. Come on, you're defacing reality and Josselin's statements... What he said is clear: he'll continue expressing himself freely (as in free speech, remember?) even though some people feel offended. That's a proof a courage, as long as he doesn't fall into illegality. Quite different, isn't it? -- Mohammed Adnène Trojette -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
Manoj Srivastava wrote: I was just thinking of postposing the end-of-vote cron job, so no re-voting would be needed. If there is sufficient support, we could also scrap the current vote, change our ballot, add options to it, or something, and restart the vote, but that would need a strong grass roots support (I do not think the secretary has the power to do so). I would like to see an updated announcement outlining the change in the voting timeframe. This way there is (hopefully) less confusion when the end of vote cron job does not come when expected (as per the original call for votes). I woud like to see this vote run its course. I see no need to modify the ballot at all. -- John H. Robinson, IV jaq...@debian.org http WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above, sbih.org ( )(:[ as apparently my cats have learned how to type. spiders.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Thu Dec 18 08:44, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately Thank you for your hard work in this post. I'm sorry to see that a few zealots can cause so many hard working folks to consider leaving the project. Personally, if we are to do without anyone it is not the people I see resigning or considering resignation that I would rather see leave. Please ignore those people who are asking for your removal from the project. Whatever their feelings about how you have managed the role of project secretary any suggestion that you should leave the project is completely untenable. It's a ridiculous suggestion and I am shocked that anyone would entertain the thought. Matt -- Matthew Johnson signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:45:07PM +0100, Mohammed Adnène Trojette wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008, Russell Coker wrote: He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop disagreeing. Come on, you're defacing reality and Josselin's statements... What he said is clear: he'll continue expressing himself freely (as in free speech, remember?) even though some people feel offended. That's a proof a courage, as long as he doesn't fall into illegality. Quite different, isn't it? Not only that, but I will continue shocking people could be taken as an intent or a prediction of people's reactions. Either he intends to shock people purposefully or he fully expects people to continue to be shocked. You really have put words into his mouth, and I don't think that's right. Also a bit funny that you intend to solve censorship (not that I agree) with more censorship. -- Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Michael Banck mba...@debian.org wrote: Like it or not, messages to d-d-a are frequently forwarded verbatim to LWN and other major IT-centered news sources. This happen much less Pretty much everything and anything ends up there, so that's hardly a criterion for relevance or whatever. JB. -- Julien BLACHE - Debian GNU/Linux Developer - jbla...@debian.org Public key available on http://www.jblache.org - KeyID: F5D6 5169 GPG Fingerprint : 935A 79F1 C8B3 3521 FD62 7CC7 CD61 4FD7 F5D6 5169 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Hi Dne Thu, 18 Dec 2008 08:44:11 -0600 Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org napsal(a): I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. Thanks for your hard work! As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I don't see reason for this. Everybody can make a mistake and single mistake can not be reason for removing from the project. I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. Make the decision with care, the emotions will hopefully calm down. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:44:11AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Hi folks, I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. I was planning on leaving the office soon, anyway, but I had a rewrite of Devotee underway, which would have made the software more useful for different people (different checks --LDAP.gpg. and others), and allowed Devotee to be packaged as essentially a perl library, with vote protocols being perl scripts (debian-vote --config gr_lenny.cfg). But that is no longer a compelling reason to stay on. Thank you. I (along with many others, I know) appreciate your efforts over many years of work as Project Secretary. But now it's time to pass that torch on to somebody else. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. :-( While we may have had disagreements about votes very recently, I sincerely hope that you will decide to continue within the project as a whole. I think any suggestion of an expulsion is utterly absurd. I hope that you will carry on with your work in other parts of Debian where you have made valuable contributions over the years, but of course that's your decision to make. Go, take some time off in peace and work out what you want to do in future. -- Steve McIntyre, Debian Project Leader lea...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Manoj, This is very unfortunate for Debian. You diligently adhered to the Constitution in the face of rabid criticism from a few loudmouths who were too lazy to resolve their concerns about poorly worded proposals at the appropriate time. Sadly, by this action you have only encouraged the jackals who delight in ruining the Debian experience for the majority. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problems with the concept of unstable - testing
Christian Perrier dijo [Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 07:40:12AM +0100]: It could be by promoting experimental a different way we are doing it right now...or by adding an intermediate stage between unstable and experimental. For that latter case, I somewhat fear the (human) resource problem we would end up with as it would need more people to take care of the whole mess^W organization. What I wanted to add also is that the problem pointed here does not only affect desktop environments as most contributors pointed. For instance, the samba packaging team is currently facing an interesting dilemna: (...) So, where could we upload up-to-date 3.2.* packages for the benefit of our users who prefer having the last bug fix releases? We can't do it in experimental as 3.3 is already using it. When lenny is released, backports.org is the appropriate place for this, imho. However, lenny-backports will only open when lenny is released and should indeed have packages backported from unstable at that moment. For us, that will be 3.3.* So, I had another idea: open foo-backports at the moment foo is frozen so that maintainers can upload the latest bleeding edge versions of their packages there, when using experimental is not possible for some reasons. I like and subscribe to your idea. I feel that many of us are actually bitten by that same problem - even if we have upstreams that understand the process of releasing Debian, it is hard to expect them to work with the madness associated with long freezes. And I do not think we will be able to avoid long freezes in the future, just because of the scale we work with - We might be able to somehow reduce the length, but not as much as to meet a lively upstream's fantasy :) -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
Sandro Tosi dijo [Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:22:40PM +0100]: Hello, I've started a new thread because follow 2 very long thread starts being a little tedious. This voice is coming out more and more strong lately: why don't we simply delete the current gr_lenny and start another ballot, only focusing on the *real* lenny release? All other options must go into other ballot, or more than one, let's talk about that. Rank Further discussion first. That's our best way to say I think this vote is wrong. -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
also sprach Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org [2008.12.18.1544 +0100]: As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. To those people: you suck. To Manoj: thanks for your hard work, I hope you won't leave us. I appreciate your innovativeness in so many areas. And whom else could I wind up with unofficial IDs then? :) To DSA: if you were to remove Manoj due to this petition, remove me right along. I certainly wouldn't want to be part of this project anymore. To the loud people responsible for all this crap: try to fix a bug for every time you write a mail to our lists. Actually, just fix the bug, please. -- .''`. martin f. krafft madd...@d.o Related projects: : :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems es ist gut, eine sache doppelt auszudrücken und ihr einen rechten und linken fuß zu geben. auf einem bein kann die wahrheit zwar stehen; mit zweien aber wird sie gehen und herumkommen. -- friedrich nietzsche digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
Re: First call for votes for the Lenny release GR
Brian May dijo [Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:45:47AM +1100]: (...) A) If we trust or not the release team on making the right choices of which bugs to ignore and which not (regardless of this being firmware issues or what have you). This is from now on, not just for Lenny. B) If we want to allow sourceless firmware in Debian, defining firmware in a way that doesn't give a waiver to anything else without source. This is also from now on, not just for Lenny. But it's only for firmware, not for everything with licensing problems. C) If we want to allow stuff with some problems into Lenny, as we already did for Sarge and Etch. (...) I think the concern is, what if the results conflict? e.g. if we get a No for (C) but Yes for (A). We trust the release team to make the right choices but we don't trust them to make the right choices for Lenny? My suggestion would be to vote for (C) first, and then decide the wording on (A) and (B) depending on the outcome of (C). In which case, even if there is a conflict, the wording can clarify if the second vote overrides or doesn't override the first result. I agree with your view, as it would also free the release team to move forward the release while we continue discussiong A and B. I would _really_ love to get this settled for good (i.e. to solve A and B as well). Still... Everything lends itself to interpretation. In the case you mention, if a GR says No for C, then Lenny will be delayed until said problems are solved. And if then we vote Yes for A, they will know the firmware issue is off-limits (via a GR, of course) - They will have the power to mark lenny-ignore a FTBFS if you may, but not a non-free firmware inclusion. Which is still an outcome. -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit : Julien BLACHE wrote: I'd argue about that official thing that people have been using to qualify d-d-a. It's an announce list for developers, by developers. I'm not sure what's official in there. I'd tend to say anything official is project communication, that effectively goes to debian-announce. d-d-a has 5700 subscribers [1] and is archived/mirrored around the world. Non-developers by far outnumber developers in subscribing that list. It doesn't really matter, if it's an 'officially endorsed' message from the project or not, the point is it was an 'announcement' and it was perceived as inappropriate (not only OT) by many. I fully disagree. If I say I eat kittens at breakfast(*) here or in planet.debian.org, how is it relevant to the project ? Even though it could be read by many and reproduced in a lot of places, the project never said it supports having kitten for breakfast, even though *some* developpers might actually say it. The question is not about what is said but about the scope of the communication. official has a meaning which is clear. It is the composition of an official position *and* an official communication channel. Any argument that blurs this distinction will only make the project less reliable and reduce the various opinions of people in the project, which means free speech. I *do* like when people express various points, including one that I do not agree with. And we don't want DDs to have all the same ideas, right ? Romain (*) The true answer to this question remains private :-P -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes: As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, WHAT?? Could these people step up please and tell us WHY you consider expelling Manoj from Debian would be a good thing? Feel free to use -private if you think your reasonings shouldn't be public. Thanks Manoj for your work as the Secretary. I've not always agreed with your decisions but I acknowledge that the post is a difficult one and you've been committed to do the best job you can - and it has been a very good job on the whole. -- * Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology (T.P) * * PGP public key available @ http://www.iki.fi/killer * -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On 11603 March 1977, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. :( Sorry to hear that. Whoever is your follower *will* have a hard time. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. There haven't been such a request yet. Honestly, I can't imagine strong enough arguments to open such a process. While there certainly has been a lot of discussion around the last vote and its ballot and whatnot, that alone wouldn't, IMO, suffice to forcefully kick you out of Debian. I do hope you continue working in Debian, even if the work you chose will be very different to the one you did in the past. -- bye, Joerg exa look i can't afford to to any more work without becoming a DD pgpxGzaHeQqu9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Romain Beauxis wrote: Le Thursday 18 December 2008 16:37:38 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit : The point is it was an 'announcement' and it was perceived as inappropriate (not only OT) by many. I fully disagree. If I say I eat kittens at breakfast(*) here or in planet.debian.org, how is it relevant to the project ? Just for clarification: I was talking about the announcement mail, not about anything on this list or on planet. Cheers, Johannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklKgqgACgkQC1NzPRl9qEUxUgCfU7ieVXiV6hnasnRj93gM6zif LEMAnjJ2X0F6v5lFKx3oiZedVQKofpMj =bHkR -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit : I eat kittens at breakfast How do you cook them? I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender. Do you have some advice? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
Hi Gunnar, On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 17:38, Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org wrote: Sandro Tosi dijo [Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:22:40PM +0100]: Hello, I've started a new thread because follow 2 very long thread starts being a little tedious. This voice is coming out more and more strong lately: why don't we simply delete the current gr_lenny and start another ballot, only focusing on the *real* lenny release? All other options must go into other ballot, or more than one, let's talk about that. Rank Further discussion first. That's our best way to say I think this vote is wrong. But that will delay even further Lenny release; I think that a simple vote like the one dato proposed is what is needed to let us move forward a release. It is nice how many replies the thread on joss rudeness received and so few this one...bah... -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, Morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:51:34PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Bjørn Mork bm...@dod.no wrote: Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de writes: I would very much like this library to become the *only* WPAD implementation anywhere. Hopefully eventually with some ability to define local policies, where the default Debian policy could be very strict. E.g. Never trust DNS for WPAD, or Never use WPAD at all. I tend to agree, we have not forbidden root to do rm -arf . It is the same, it is a policy problem. With current libproxy, could root forbid the use of WPAD, even if user ask it? Dan Winship, one of the libproxy authors, replied: |- The fact that it's broken doesn't change the fact that lots of | sites use it | |- It's already implemented by other programs in the distro anyway | (notably Firefox) | |- Its use in libproxy can be disabled system-wide by the | administrator | |I think in current libproxy WPAD is enabled by default though. We should |make sure that's changed. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Hi, kindergarten and western civilisation indeed would be a good idea. To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour. regards, Holger P.S.: it's not about the content of the previous messages, I like dogs for dinner. Its about willfullingly trolling and not having learned a tiny bit of respect for other humans. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:21:48 Holger Levsen, vous avez écrit : To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour. You can't be serious. Josseling is *not* trolling for nothing. Most of the people, exactly like the censors in real life never really question the reasons why they get shocked. When Josselin is, as you said, trolling, it mostly consists in a humoristic way of having people think about something. And, yes, humour *is* provocative. It is interesting to see how we all agree on having fun in debian, but never actually laught. Send a picture of two grils kissing and people complain, send a pastiche (to the wrong destination probably), and people complain for it being sexism. Then, what is fun to you ? And, moreover, how do you qualify the level of tolerance to other ideas *and* expressions ? Now, because I like when there a bit of irony (which qualifies as humour), let me propose you the following logical paradox: I hereby ask for my own removal on the ground of me trolling on purpose with this sentence. Cheers, Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org (18/12/2008): To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. OOH, that's the season, maybe? Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour. Just for the record, Joss didn't start this thread and didn't exhume this subject. You could propose a patch against Constitution, Devref, Policy, List Policy, or whatever, to clarify what level of trolling is accepted behaviour. We don't have that yet, which is a shame. Nothing too dramatic, though. That can easily be fixed. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
What is involved in NEW processing?
Since I am not (yet) a DD and the remaining RC bugs for lenny are largely beyond me - I have been keeping an eye on the list - I'm looking for ways to contribute that aren't packaging. It occurs to me that the NEW queue is pretty static for large periods of time (and in the middle of a freeze, this is pretty understandable). Not being a DD I don't, of course, expect to just be let loose on the queue, but I understand the checks are time-consuming. Would it help you if I performed checks on packages as much as I can do, and report back to some nominated DD? What I'm after at the moment is to understand what gets more subtle checks, beyond the obvious, to make sure I'm not stretching myself too far. If this is the wrong place to ask such a thing, please feel free to redirect me. Of course, if you have suggestions on other contributions I can make, do say so. I have a slightly vested interest in NEW since I have some packages in there :-) TIA. -- Jonathan Wiltshire PGP/GPG: 0xDB800B52 / 4216 F01F DCA9 21AC F3D3 A903 CA6B EA3E DB80 0B52 Sending of encrypted mail is encouraged signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 18:08:00 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit : Le jeudi 18 décembre 2008 à 17:49 +0100, Romain Beauxis a écrit : I eat kittens at breakfast How do you cook them? I like European cats a lot, but I heard the Siamese meat is more tender. Do you have some advice? The secret for a good kitten meat is: the more they suffer, the more tender is the meat.. I guess that it is for similar reasons that we have a good project ! :-D Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: What is involved in NEW processing?
On 18/12/08 at 17:45 +, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: Since I am not (yet) a DD and the remaining RC bugs for lenny are largely beyond me - I have been keeping an eye on the list - I'm looking for ways to contribute that aren't packaging. It occurs to me that the NEW queue is pretty static for large periods of time (and in the middle of a freeze, this is pretty understandable). Not being a DD I don't, of course, expect to just be let loose on the queue, but I understand the checks are time-consuming. Would it help you if I performed checks on packages as much as I can do, and report back to some nominated DD? What I'm after at the moment is to understand what gets more subtle checks, beyond the obvious, to make sure I'm not stretching myself too far. If this is the wrong place to ask such a thing, please feel free to redirect me. Of course, if you have suggestions on other contributions I can make, do say so. I have a slightly vested interest in NEW since I have some packages in there :-) There was a thread about that just a few weeks ago. Start with http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/12/msg00112.html . -- | Lucas Nussbaum | lu...@lucas-nussbaum.net http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ | | jabber: lu...@nussbaum.fr GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking. +10 from here. Of course, Josselin thinks and jokes differently from others, as it's natural to do. When in a large cross-cultural project, it's a good idea to be tactful. That's how people show they respect others. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:44:11AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. Thank you for all the good work you've done in that position over the years. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. I would just like to go on record that if Manoj is expelled from the project due to the recent events, then I will resign. Fortunately, it seems that it won't be necessary. -- Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho, Jyväskylä, Finland http://antti-juhani.kaijanaho.fi/newblog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/antti-juhani/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. Thank you very much for your work in such a difficult role for so long. Debian is certainly a better project for your efforts. Mistakes happen. Mistakes can be recovered from. What can not, however, is relationships, and trust, and this works both ways. It has been made clear to me that the project no longer trusts me, and many consider that I have been the epitome of sleaze over the years, manipulating votes for my own ends. That hurts. I have also read planet. The amount of vitriol there makes it untenable for me to participate in any efforts to recover from this mess. I, for one, have never felt that you have gamed the system for your own ends. I believe that you have always done your personal best to be as fair as possible. I believe that you understand the nature of your past role as Secretary and tried to be as open as you could in the process. I trust you. I believe that a large portion of the project trusts you, also. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. The project would suffer greatly if you left. At a conference long ago, I got a chance to sit with Ian Murdock[1]. One of the slides the presenter had was a bunch of penguins surrounding and looking on one that was laying down. The presenter used this slide to indicate that Linux users will help their fallen comrade. The presenter went on to say that it looked like the penguins, as pictured, were eating their young. That is when Ian pointed out to me how true that was in the Linux community. I wonder if Debian is exemplifying this behavior. A lot of good people have retired lately. It is starting to feel like that block of homes that has one too many For Sale signs. Why is everyone leaving? What is so bad about the area? What do they know that I don't? -- John H. Robinson, IV jaq...@debian.org http WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above, sbih.org ( )(:[ as apparently my cats have learned how to type. spiders.html [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murdock -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Manoj, As one of the few people around who has been part of the Debian project as long as you have, please accept my sincere appreciation for your long history of meaningful contributions... and in particular your lengthy and honorable service as our secretary! You have earned and retain my immense respect, and I look forward to continuing to work with you to advance our shared interest in Free Software. Pursuant to section 7.2 of the Debian Constitution, I acknowledge that as the current Chairman of the Technical Committee I now also serve as Acting Secretary until such time as our DPL delegates a new Secretary. Bdale -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#509063: ITP: libproxy -- automatic proxy configuration management library
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Michael Banck mba...@debian.org wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:51:34PM +0100, Bastien ROUCARIES wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Bjørn Mork bm...@dod.no wrote: Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de writes: I would very much like this library to become the *only* WPAD implementation anywhere. Hopefully eventually with some ability to define local policies, where the default Debian policy could be very strict. E.g. Never trust DNS for WPAD, or Never use WPAD at all. I tend to agree, we have not forbidden root to do rm -arf . It is the same, it is a policy problem. With current libproxy, could root forbid the use of WPAD, even if user ask it? Dan Winship, one of the libproxy authors, replied: |- The fact that it's broken doesn't change the fact that lots of | sites use it | |- It's already implemented by other programs in the distro anyway | (notably Firefox) | |- Its use in libproxy can be disabled system-wide by the | administrator | |I think in current libproxy WPAD is enabled by default though. We should |make sure that's changed. I will be interesting also to add a link or copy verbatim (with author permission) in README.Debian, the poisson pill of this protocol, see for instance http://www.mercenary.net/blog/index.php?/archives/42-HOWTO-WPAD.html and some explanation about (in)security of wpad. Regards Bastien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 19:12:29 Martin Langhoff, vous avez écrit : On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Manners, Josselin, and discretion. There are some places where it's just not appropriate to blurt out whatever you're thinking. +10 from here. Of course, Josselin thinks and jokes differently from others, as it's natural to do. When in a large cross-cultural project, it's a good idea to be tactful. That's how people show they respect others. Like telling in public to someone that he's your new X ? I agree with you, but I fail to see how Josselin is worse. Yes he does bad jokes and sometimes some remarks can probably be taken personaly, but I don't think he ever called for killing someone, even ironically (for what it means to be ironic about murder). There's a general track on being too rude, but I don't think you can blame a single guy for that. I won't spoil this thread anymore, but making things like this personal really makes me sad. Problems of a group are usually solved by the group as a whole, not by throwing out a designated culprit. We did before, and some of you might have noticed that this was not a solution to the issue. The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct.. I don't like it either. If you believe someone is being too rude, why don't you simply tell it to him, in public or in private ? Using a code of conduct puts more bureaucracy whereas everyone knows that email communication (and similar) tend to create anger just because you don't get the implicit message, tone, irony and etc... There's no need for a code, only some more communication between us. And if the jokes don't make you laugh, just ignore them. Cheers, Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
* Sandro Tosi mo...@debian.org [081218 18:11]: But that will delay even further Lenny release; Hey! You suggested to redo something. Thus you are suggesting to delay. I think that a simple vote like the one dato proposed is what is needed to let us move forward a release. Please note that changing the vote changes the output. And while the current vote might be strange, the simplified vote only makes sense if you want a very specific outcome, thus is much worse and extremly undemocratic. Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:28:21PM +0100, Romain Beauxis wrote: And if the jokes don't make you laugh, just ignore them. Which of course would be easier to do if the jokes were not told in the first place. There's a time and place for everything, it's a shame that a few seem to think that this list is one of them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 20:33, Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org wrote: * Sandro Tosi mo...@debian.org [081218 18:11]: But that will delay even further Lenny release; Hey! You suggested to redo something. Thus you are suggesting to delay. But maybe with the aim of a better target? I think that a simple vote like the one dato proposed is what is needed to let us move forward a release. Please note that changing the vote changes the output. and don't we want it? don't we want to know if we can release lenny with blobs or release without it (just to make an example)? And while the current vote might be strange, the simplified vote only makes sense if you want a very specific outcome, thus is much worse and extremly undemocratic. ehm? what? how is it un-democratic to have different votes for different things, targetted exactly to decide where something is allowed or not? the specific outcome I want it to be sure that whatever the ballot results will be, we then know *exactly* what to do for lenny, something I don't believe it could be archive with the current ballot. Politely, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, Morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 11:44:34AM -0700, Bdale Garbee wrote: As one of the few people around who has been part of the Debian project as long as you have, please accept my sincere appreciation for your long history of meaningful contributions... and in particular your lengthy and honorable service as our secretary! You have earned and retain my immense respect, and I look forward to continuing to work with you to advance our shared interest in Free Software. +1 Manoj, a lot of years ago we had some lengthy discussions and still (?) work together on this distribution. Isn't this possible anymore? The style of discussion seems to have deteriorated. I cannot see any reason for people to bring up an expulsion process. I hope you stay around Manoj. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org) Michael at BorussiaFan dot De, Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org ICQ: 179140304, AIM/Yahoo: michaelmeskes, Jabber: mes...@jabber.org Go VfL Borussia! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote: The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct.. I don't like it either. If you believe someone is being too rude, why don't you simply tell it to him, in public or in private ? http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html That method was attempted, the response from Josselin was I will go on shocking these people, along with several references to sodomy with a broomstick and a link to a French web page which (according to Google translation) has some detail about a sex act concerning a broomstick. See the above URL for details. Obviously simply telling him doesn't work. The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct. Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would fail for Debian? -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
* Sandro Tosi mo...@debian.org [081218 20:51]: ehm? what? how is it un-democratic to have different votes for different things, targetted exactly to decide where something is allowed or not? Then do different votes for different things. And put together what belongs together. But just having a wait forever for something not specified so meaning mostly everything and take one course of action, is only usefull if you want exactly that output taken. At least it would need to be take this course of action or further discussion. (And then the same votes for other possible decissions). And then some way to solve the problem of taking a consistent solution, which would most likely mean voting serially. And that means finding some way to decide what to vote first. the specific outcome I want it to be sure that whatever the ballot results will be, we then know *exactly* what to do for lenny, something I don't believe it could be archive with the current ballot. While I agree that current ballot is not very good at this, the alternative ballot you suggest to take instead is not good either, unless you want one specific outcome, by only taking one option and one option almost noone might want. There are at least several more: Releasing now with all non-free or undistributeable firmware removed. Releasing now with all firmware with license to distribute removed. Wait a specific time for some specific goals. Just replacing with a wait indefinitly for this or ignore everything at all is what I call un-democratic, when it is clear that the large majority of people will prefer something else than those extremes. Especially if it are not even all extremes, but just a limited number of it. Hochachtungsvoll, Bernhard R. Link -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Gtk1.2/Imlib/gnome-lib packages (Long)
Barry deFreese wrote: Just in case anyone cares/is interested, here is some work I have been doing on packages using Gtk1.2, Imlib, gnome-libs, or any combination thereof. Thanks. Could you fold this into a page on wiki.debian.org, so that people can add their specific solution attempts or actions? Such a useful list will likely be lost in the noise in some weeks and through a wiki it can be updated more easily. Actually, it would be nice if we had a decicated cleanups/transitions overview page on wiki.debian.org as a central starting point for people who want to help out. Cheers, Moritz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
(I answer since there is a question adressed..) Le Thursday 18 December 2008 22:01:17 Russell Coker, vous avez écrit : On Friday 19 December 2008 06:28, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote: The initial proposition of this thread was this idea of code of conduct.. I don't like it either. If you believe someone is being too rude, why don't you simply tell it to him, in public or in private ? http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html That method was attempted, the response from Josselin was I will go on shocking these people, along with several references to sodomy with a broomstick and a link to a French web page which (according to Google translation) has some detail about a sex act concerning a broomstick. See the above URL for details. Obviously simply telling him doesn't work. Well, the mention of this specific message was not in your initial mail. At least it gives ground to your claim. Honnestly, you don't share the irony pointed in the text. However, there was nothing personal in it. Furthermore, the perception of the tone and level of speech depends on the various culture. Being french too, I can assure you that pretending that someone has a broomstick in its ass is a very common expression for someone who it too much rigid. It is commonly used, and doesn't really shock, as far as I know. Probably it is the same with kill him or throwing away one's shoes (!) in other cultures.. The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct. Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would fail for Debian? Because we don't have the same culture. We don't work the same way, we do not have the same population and etc... Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 06:27:15PM +, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:44:11AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. Thank you for all the good work you've done in that position over the years. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. I would just like to go on record that if Manoj is expelled from the project due to the recent events, then I will resign. Fortunately, it seems that it won't be necessary. Huh, who talked about expelling Manoj !? -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··Omadco...@debian.org OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgphIHHMAeR9Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
#include hallo.h * Russell Coker [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 11:04:24PM]: http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29t=7991 From the above news article: # Debian Project Leader Steve McIntyre told iTWire that after Mouette's abuse I would like to know what exactly Steve told them. The major tone WRT OSS on that page seems to be pretty harsh, close to FUD and trolling. So how did Steve feed them, did he at all? Regards, Eduard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes: In the years I have spent in this role since Darren left us, I have tried to conduct the votes as I saw the rquirements of the constitution, and the limitations of the voting software. But this not a view shared by very many people. I've always found your decisions and actions as Secretary to be well-considered and founded in calm reason; and you've been very patient, many times, in explaining that reasoning. As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, I hear you too. I am going to spend the next few days evaluating how important the project is to me, and whether I should save you the bother or an expulsion process. Requests to remove you from the *project* seem completely without basis. You need to make the decision you think is right, but I really hope you don't let the haters get to you, and that you get your groove back. While I must say that the mistake for this ballot lies at my door, I am very distressed at the amount of vitriol that saturates the project communication channels now. Subjectively, this seems worse now than the flame filled days of yore -- because, back then, despite the apparent flames, people used to be amicable and friendly with the people they occasionally had heated discussion with. That seems to have passed, with real meanness being far more prevalent than before. All too true. Maintaining passionate discussion without harming community cohesion is the job of us all, and we seem to be doing significantly worse at it in recent times. Let's endeavour to keep this episode of poor behaviour an isolated one, followed by a strong recovery. Thanks for your good work, Manoj, and I wish you well in deciding how to spend your efforts. Know that you're welcome as a project member, as an advocate of freedom, and as a clear voice of reason. -- \ “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our | `\will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of | _o__) others.” —Thomas Jefferson | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Friday 19 December 2008 01:44, Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. I was I'm sad to hear this. I think that you have done a great job as secretary. I concede that I have made mistakes with the current set of votes. And the arguments being made now, after the vote was called and started, are fairly compelling. But these arguments could have been made when the vote page went up, when I was sending in the emails about which option had how many seconds, or when the draft ballot was sent in. There are, in my opinion, far more cogent arguments being offered now, than there were in the discussion period, and had these being made earlier, we would not have come to this pass. One issue we face in this regard is that the vote doesn't get that much attention until the GR. I have a limited amount of time to spend on Debian related activities (and the recent problems make me inclined to spend even less time on Debian). That time limit doesn't allow me to get involved in the debian-vote mailing list. I expect that there are others in a similar situation. It would probably be good if people who have strong feelings about discussions on debian-vote would periodically blog about it before the GR is written. While I must say that the mistake for this ballot lies at my door, I am very distressed at the amount of vitriol that saturates the project communication channels now. Subjectively, this seems worse now than the flame filled days of yore -- because, back then, despite the apparent flames, people used to be amicable and friendly with the people they occasionally had heated discussion with. That seems to have passed, with real meanness being far more prevalent than before. It's sad that yet another productive developer is resigning from duties due to the nasty environment that we have. How often does this have to happen before we get a change? -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote: http://np237.livejournal.com/20741.html That method was attempted, the response from Josselin was I will go on shocking these people, along with several references to sodomy with a broomstick and a link to a French web page which (according to Google translation) has some detail about a sex act concerning a broomstick. See the above URL for details. Obviously simply telling him doesn't work. Well, the mention of this specific message was not in your initial mail. At least it gives ground to your claim. Honnestly, you don't share the irony pointed in the text. However, there was nothing personal in it. Furthermore, the perception of the tone and level of speech depends on the various culture. Linking to messages by me, Manoj, and Miriam (in the one of them links section) is a direct personal attack. Being french too, I can assure you that pretending that someone has a broomstick in its ass is a very common expression for someone who it too much rigid. It is commonly used, and doesn't really shock, as far as I know. Probably it is the same with kill him or throwing away one's shoes (!) in other cultures.. The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation of homosexuality. However Josselin made it quite clear that he was not using the term as a collaquialism, but that he was directly referring to sodomy by his link to the French web page in question. http://np237.livejournal.com/21451.html The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct. Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would fail for Debian? Because we don't have the same culture. We don't work the same way, we do not have the same population and etc... What cultural difference is there between Ubuntu and Debian apart from a tolerance for trolls? -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On 2008-12-18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote: culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation of homosexuality. Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. I think you are seeing ghosts or just being prejudistic against homosexuals. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote: On Friday 19 December 2008 08:53, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote: Being french too, I can assure you that pretending that someone has a broomstick in its ass is a very common expression for someone who it too much rigid. It is commonly used, and doesn't really shock, as far as I know. Probably it is the same with kill him or throwing away one's shoes (!) in other cultures.. The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation of homosexuality. However Josselin made it quite clear that he was not using the term as a collaquialism, but that he was directly referring to sodomy by his link to the French web page in question. http://np237.livejournal.com/21451.html The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. I'm really speechless... I mean, even from you I'm still not sure it's not a practical joke. Avoir un balai dans le cul has to do with the rigidity of if. It alludes to people being obtuse and taking offense from completely silly things. A bit like you're doing actually. But of course, I'm only French, and for sure you know more than French people if Avoir un balai dans le cul is colloquial or not. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··Omadco...@debian.org OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpBefUi7Hrds.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 à 09:28 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit : The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation of homosexuality. Homosexuality can be an *accusation* ‽ The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. So, if I follow you: leather - homosexuality homosexuality - offense And by saying both of these, you dare say that I am offensive ‽ You are really one of the most intolerant and homophobic bigots I have had a conversation with. You may convey it with a polite tone that would suit the Ubuntu code of conduct, but your rhetoric is full of hate and contempt. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Thursday 18 December 2008 23:46:25 Josselin Mouette, vous avez écrit : So, if I follow you: leather - homosexuality homosexuality - offense And by saying both of these, you dare say that I am offensive ‽ Well, you could also argue that in intend to offend means present things as if it was offensent, much like when calling someone a geek is meant as an insult... However, Russel's interpretation clearly doesn't match mine too. Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008, Russell Coker wrote: The expression broomstick in their arse is also common in Australian culture. It is even sometimes used without the intent to make an accusation of homosexuality. However Josselin made it quite clear that he was not using the term as a collaquialism, but that he was directly referring to sodomy by his link to the French web page in question. http://np237.livejournal.com/21451.html The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. Oh then it's all right you know, because it's latex, not leather. Also, in the world I live in, anal sex and homosexuality are orthogonal concepts and people can have or not have any of each. I don't understand why you are now adding homosexuality to the discussion unless you wish to cause even more drama. Cheers, -- Sam. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
#include hallo.h * Kalle Kivimaa [Thu, Dec 18 2008, 05:11:39PM]: Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org writes: As to the people who emailed me that they are putting together a petition for the DAM to have me removed from the project, WHAT?? Could these people step up please and tell us WHY you consider expelling Manoj from Debian would be a good thing? Feel free to use -private if you think your reasonings shouldn't be public. Thanks Manoj for your work as the Secretary. I've not always agreed with your decisions but I acknowledge that the post is a difficult one and you've been committed to do the best job you can - and it has been a very good job on the whole. $message++ We did not always share the same opinion but Manoj has my respect. I hope it was not my spicy note on IRC yesterday that pulled the trigger but if that's the case then I am sorry about that. Regards, Eduard. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Pierre Habouzit wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:28:09PM +, Russell Coker wrote: The creation of a fake picture of Manoj wearing leather makes it clear that Joss was intending to make an insinuation of homosexuality in order to offend. I'm really speechless... I mean, even from you I'm still not sure it's not a practical joke. I am really speechless The French seem to have a completely different understanding of the English language used in all these matters than almost every one else in the world. I guess it is really time that Joss realizes that what might have been OK to be written in French is considered an insult when written in English to thousands of readers from different cultural backgrounds. Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas [1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable within one culture (I don't speak or understand 'French') will not necessarily be acceptable for all the other thousands of recipients of your posts. If there are some that have rigid attitudes, it seems to be the French -- for their failure to accept that the world contains people that beg to differ with the 'French opinion' or have a different kind of 'humor'. I can only with a little bit of confidence speak of the German interpretation of what has been said. More than one of Joss's statements appear as rather infantile. It's a pity that this grand old lady of an operating system and serious software is being dragged into the aura of these immature ramblings. JMHO, Johannes [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux_pas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509159: ITP: libhaml-ruby -- Elegant, easy and powerful template engines for HTML and CSS
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Gunnar Wolf gw...@debian.org * Package name: libhaml-ruby Version : 2.0.6 Upstream Author : Nathan Weizenbaum * URL : http://haml.hamptoncatlin.com * License : MIT/X Programming Lang: Ruby Description : Elegant, easy and powerful template engines for HTML and CSS Haml (HTML Abstraction Markup Language) is a layer on top of XHTML or XML that's designed to express the structure of XHTML or XML documents in a non-repetitive, elegant, easy way, using indentation rather than closing tags and allowing Ruby to be embedded with ease. It was originally envisioned as a plugin for Ruby on Rails, but it can function as a stand-alone templating engine. . This package includes as well Sass, a CSS templating engine based on the same philosophy -- System Information: Debian Release: 5.0 APT prefers testing APT policy: (500, 'testing') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Do, 18 Dez 2008, Russell Coker wrote: The above article concerns the damage that Josselin's actions cause to the Debian project. D-d-a is not that different from other parts of Debian, bad behaviour in other forums also hurts the project. Oh bummer. Normally I never write something in these useless threads, I prefer packaging. But now it is really getting on my nerves. If you are so icky-picky and can't stand some bad jokes, than I am sorry for all of you, but please get a real life. The email of Josselin to d-d-a made me laugh quite a lot, and his posts mentioned here are all within the rules. So if *anyone* here thinks he is up to define ethical, political correct, anti-sexist and all the bullshit, please do so, but somewhere else. The last thing I want is Debian ending up in the horrible mess and morast of anglophonic-political-correctness-shit. I myself do recount many sexist jokes, and count myself as far from being a women-mistreater as anyone. Everyone of those overly masculine-but-we-dont-say-something here ever heard what women are talking about men. Come on, that is normality, no problem with that. If someone is hurt so easily, and if some female DD think about leaving the project for that email of Josselin I would say, puuh, fine, rid of that overly-sensitive ps someone stepped on my toe ps girlies. Best wishes Norbert For my German friends I add my personal expression of the equal-opportunity law on universities etc: Eierstockparagraph. Nobody actually believes that it *helps* women, and I can give good reasons that these stupidity concocted from Feminist-zealots are actually *hurting* the situation of women, but this is a different story. --- Dr. Norbert Preining prein...@logic.atVienna University of Technology Debian Developer prein...@debian.org Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- SLOGARIE (n.) Hillwalking dialect for the seven miles of concealed rough moorland which lie between what you though was the top of the hill and what actually is. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Friday 19 December 2008 10:01, Romain Beauxis to...@rastageeks.org wrote: Well, you could also argue that in intend to offend means present things as if it was offensent, much like when calling someone a geek is meant as an insult... Exactly. Also I had a brief off-list discussion with Joss about this in which I said of the post in question: # I actually wasn't offended. It merely confirmed my already low opinion of # you. It seems a great stretch to claim that I am homophobic when I have already stated that I was not offended by the post in question. It's the desire to offend others that I find offensive in this case. -- russ...@coker.com.au http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Main Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/ My Documents Blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
Le Friday 19 December 2008 01:04:05 Johannes Wiedersich, vous avez écrit : Joss, it is disappointing that after all that time since your faux pas [1], you still seem to fail to understand that what might be acceptable within one culture (I don't speak or understand 'French') will not necessarily be acceptable for all the other thousands of recipients of your posts. I why couldn't you just accept other cultural expressions ? If people have a different understanding than yours, why should yours be the reference ? Romain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#509164: ITP: libdatetime-format-sqlite-perl -- Parse and format SQLite dates and times
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Jaldhar H. Vyas jald...@debian.org * Package name: libdatetime-format-sqlite-perl Version : 0.10 Upstream Author : Claus Farber cfaer...@cpan.org * URL : http://datetime.perl.org/ * License : GPL+Artistic Programming Lang: Perl Description : Parse and format SQLite dates and times This module understands the formats used by SQLite for its date, datetime and time functions. It can be used to parse these formats in order to create DateTime objects, and it can take a DateTime object and produce a timestring accepted by SQLite. [This package will be maintained by the Debian Perl group] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Let's restart from scratch the gr_lenny vote (in a better form this time)?
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 06:07:43PM +0100, Sandro Tosi wrote:
Rank Further discussion first. That's our best way to say I think
this vote is wrong.
But that will delay even further Lenny release; I think that a simple
vote like the one dato proposed is what is needed to let us move
forward a release.
Nope, this is kinda FUD.
In the absence of a vote outcome, everything continues as the GR
wasn't there, hence the release team can do its job and make a release
as they please.
Things would have been different if the GR text had appealed to
constitution §4.2.2 (provided one can find a decision to be put on
hold), but this is not the case.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: Gtk1.2/Imlib/gnome-lib packages (Long)
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:40 AM, Moritz Muehlenhoff j...@inutil.org wrote: Actually, it would be nice if we had a decicated cleanups/transitions overview page on wiki.debian.org as a central starting point for people who want to help out. This is the old one: http://wiki.debian.org/OngoingTransitions This is the one that Barry added: http://wiki.debian.org/Transitions -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Dec 18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote: He has stated that he intends to keep offending people. His aim seems to be the censorship of people who disagree with him by continually offending them until they stop disagreeing. I am quite sure that this is not a new meaning of censorship I was not yet aware... I hope that you are drunk, on drugs or both. Otherwise justifying such a stupid argument will be very embarassing. I believe that we need a code of conduct for the Planet. The Ubuntu code of Maybe we first need a code of conduct for mailing lists. I propose that we start with something simple like don't be an idiot. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Dec 18, Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org wrote: FWIW, I'm way more annoyed by _frequent_ OT blog posts totally unrelated to Debian on Planet Debian (even though I enjoy _sporadic_ OTs) than by Joss posts. Me too! I really do not feel the need to learn how much the personal life of other developers sucks or see photos of your cats (no matter how much I like cats). Hint: if I cared about the intimate details of your life, I would be your friend. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Dec 18, Russell Coker russ...@coker.com.au wrote: The Ubuntu community includes many former and current members of the Debian community. It seems that they don't have a problem with the code of conduct. Why do you think that a code of conduct which works well for Ubuntu would fail for Debian? They get paid? In my experience this helps a lot to be nicer to stupid people. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Josselin Mouette and Planet Debian
On Dec 18, Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org wrote: To those thinking about expelling Joss, I'm in favor of this now. Trolling on purpose (repeatetly) for the sake of it is nothing I want to see in Debian nor do I want to see it as accepted behaviour. Come on... We had a DPL who hosted the browser exploits and shock sites which were used to flood #wikipedia and #gentoo, a developer using some rethoric in a debate is not too bad by comparison. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: I hereby resign as secretary
On Dec 18, Manoj Srivastava sriva...@debian.org wrote: I am hereby resigning as secretary, effective immediately. I was Good riddance! It's too bad that you did not leave after misleading the other developers about editorial changes. While I must say that the mistake for this ballot lies at my door, I am very distressed at the amount of vitriol that saturates the project communication channels now. Subjectively, this seems worse now I think it's interesting how how much of this can be traced to what I defined DFSG revisionism. than the flame filled days of yore -- because, back then, despite the apparent flames, people used to be amicable and friendly with the people they occasionally had heated discussion with. That seems to have This is true. I used to trust the people who worked on Debian and enjoyed working with them, but then I felt betrayed and I started to despise some developers. Then I realized that feeling emotionally attached to an operating system means that your life priorities are totally fucked up, so I moved on. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
