Re: Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 17 2023, Andrea Pappacoda  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> first of all thank you for this great thread. While I could feel some tension 
> while
> reading it, it's completely normal and I've learned a lot.
>
> I have a question though: if /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 is already a symlink 
> on
> non-merged-/usr systems, pointing to 
> /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, why would
> it be an issue to have /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 point to 
> /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2?

I don't think it would be, and I don't think anyone else is saying it would be.

> Why do we want binaries to look for the loader in
> /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 if that would still be a symlink to
> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2?

My understanding is that there is a desire for the /lib64 symlink not to
be needed, because it would simplify bootstrapping new systems.


Best,
Nikolaus
-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

Re: Automating signing of DKMS modules with machine owner key

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Aug 05 2020, Jeremy Stanley  wrote:
> On 2020-08-05 20:30:59 +0100 (+0100), Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> On Aug 04 2020, Jeremy Stanley  wrote:
>> > Okay, so for systems to which a malicious party may gain physical
>> > access (or remote console access) there's sort of a third risk this
>> > addresses. A special case of the second risk really. *If* you're
>> > also encrypting the filesystem on which that signing key resides
>> > (via LUKS or similar) then this might keep you safe from someone
>> > with access to replace the kernel or initrd on the unencrypted boot
>> > partition... but only if they can't unlock the decryption key for
>> > the FS which holds the signing key of course.
>> 
>> Wouldn't such an attacker simply modify the (necessarily unencrypted)
>> initrd such that it stores the decryption key for the attacker the next
>> time you enter it?
>
> How would this attacker generate the new initrd signature so that it
> still validates correctly?

I didn't know this was validated these days. Still, couldn't they just
reconfigure/reinstall Grub so that it doesn't validate the initrd?

Best
-Nikolaus
-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Automating signing of DKMS modules with machine owner key

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Aug 04 2020, Jeremy Stanley  wrote:
> Okay, so for systems to which a malicious party may gain physical
> access (or remote console access) there's sort of a third risk this
> addresses. A special case of the second risk really. *If* you're
> also encrypting the filesystem on which that signing key resides
> (via LUKS or similar) then this might keep you safe from someone
> with access to replace the kernel or initrd on the unencrypted boot
> partition... but only if they can't unlock the decryption key for
> the FS which holds the signing key of course.

Wouldn't such an attacker simply modify the (necessarily unencrypted)
initrd such that it stores the decryption key for the attacker the next
time you enter it?

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Heads up: persistent journal has been enabled in systemd

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Feb 05 2020, Scott Kitterman  wrote:
> On February 5, 2020 12:35:45 PM UTC, Ansgar  wrote:
>>On Wed, 2020-02-05 at 07:44 +, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> Do syslog facilities really have to be addressed by number rather
>>than name?  That seems like a horrible interface.
>>
>>Currently yes.  There is an upstream bug asking for a way to specify
>>them by name[1], but nobody implemented it yet.
>>
>>I think a `--facility` option should be fairly easy to implement.  Just
>>adapt some code from the existing `--identifier` and `--priority`
>>options, there is already a method to translate facility names to
>>numbers (see calls to `log_facility_unshifted_from_string`).
>>
>>Ansgar
>>
>>  [1]: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/9716
>
> Thanks.  That seems like a pretty basic feature.
>
> My impression so far is that the journalctl interface is a regression from 
> what we have
> now in every way I care about.

I would venture that for every user who is grateful that
/var/log/mail.log collects all the various mail-related logs, there is
another user that curses about non being able to separate (out of the
box) the logs from all the programs that consider themselves
mail-related, and another user who struggles to remember in which
logfile $DIFFICULT_TO_CLASSIFY_PROGRAM might be writing its logs. The
former use-case is well served by having the current set of logfiles,
the latter will be much happier with being able to use journalctl.

So this doesn't strike me as a strong argument in either direction.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Adding security features

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Feb 05 2020, Anthony DeRobertis  wrote:
> On February 5, 2020 9:49:36 AM UTC, Nikolaus Rath  wrote:
>>On Feb 04 2020, Anthony DeRobertis  wrote:
>>> Google has at some point had results from
>>> Gmail in the web search results (no idea if they currently do).
>>
>>Would you have a reference for this please?
>
> Here is a news report from when they were testing it:
>  
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/260600/google_tries_showing_gmail_emails_in_search_results.html
>  
>
> Not sure what came of it.

I think it's worth pointing out that this was an experimental feature
that users explicitly had to opt into. The original statement feels
misleading to me.

Best
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Adding security features

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Feb 04 2020, Anthony DeRobertis  wrote:
> Google has at some point had results from
> Gmail in the web search results (no idea if they currently do).

Would you have a reference for this please?

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 3.3.2+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Changes:
 s3ql (3.3.2+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Re: Git Packaging Round 2: When to Salsa

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Sep 08 2019, Sam Hartman  wrote:
> Hopefully you will choose to monitor merge requests for your
> repository.  If not, turn off merge requests.

Monitor *and respond to* might be a better phrasing..?

Best,
Nikolaus
-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 3.3+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted s3ql 3.2+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 933558
Changes:
 s3ql (3.2+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Gracefully cope with coarse system clock (Closes: #933558).
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Accepted s3ql 3.2+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 932544
Changes:
 s3ql (3.2+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Use debhelper-compat instead of debian/compat.
   * Depend on texlive-plain-generic instead of obsolete texlive-generic-extra
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Accepted s3ql 3.2+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
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Changes:
 s3ql (3.2+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Re: dgit advocacy again (Re: Survey results: git packaging practices / repository format)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jul 03 2019, Andreas Tille  wrote:
>> > That's the case for me.  I need to admit that I did not used dgit.  The
>> > reason is that I'm working in teams who all have Git repositories on
>> > Salsa that more or less are following what was described in the Perl
>> > team policy.  I live under the impression that dgit is a tool that I do
>> > not need in this case - thus I did not spent any time to learn it.
>> 
>> People like you are precisely the intended users of "dgit push --gbp".
>> 
>> I think if you used it you would help Debian users and contributors.
>> (You would slightly improve your own life too, but maybe not by enough
>> to be worth the bother of learning a new tool.)
>
> May be we should sit down next to each other at DebConf for one hour and
> you watch my workflow and tell me what can be enhanced by dgit.

Chiming in as someone who only maintains a few trivial packages: the
amount of time that you have spent on asking about dgit may already be
much bigger than the amount of time it would take you to just use it.

At least for me, I was able to simply run 'dgit --gbp build-source &&
dgit --gpm push' instead of 'sbuild  && dput '. Mission
accomplished.



Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Survey: git packaging practices / repository format

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 29 2019, Sam Hartman  wrote:
> I'm certainly going to look at dck-buildpackage now, because what he
> describes is a workflow I'd like to be using within Debian.
>
> For some projects I want to ignore orig tarballs as much as I can.  I'm
> happy with native packages, or 3.0 quilt with single-debian-patch.
> I don't want merge artifacts from Debian packaging on my branches.
> I'm happy to need to give the system an upstream tag.
> I'm happy for a dsc to fall out the bottom, and so long as it
> corresponds to my git tree I don't care how that happens.
> I have a slight preference for 3.0 format over 1.0 format packages.  3.0
> makes it possible to deal with binaries, better compression and a couple
> of things like that.  The quilt bits are (in this workflow) an annoyance
> to be conquered, not a value.
>
> The thing his approach really seems to have going for it is that he
> gives up on the debian history fast forwarding and instead rebases a lot
> for a cleaner history.
> If we could figure out a way to collaborate on something like that well,
> it might be a very interesting tool to have.

This sounds similar to the (now unmaintained) git-dpm to me.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 3.1+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:42:10 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 3.1+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (3.1+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Added dependency on python3-google-auth
   * Added patch to make dependency on python3-google-auth-oauthlib
 optional.
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Accepted s3ql 3.1+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Version: 3.1+dfsg-1
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Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
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Changes:
 s3ql (3.1+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.6+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:00:32 +
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.6+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.6+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted s3ql 3.0+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2019 10:09:05 +
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 3.0+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (3.0+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.4+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:45:15 +
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.4+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.4+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * d/control: Remove ancient X-Python3-Version field
   * Convert git repository from git-dpm to gbp layout
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * New upstream release.
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Re: Bits from the DPL (December 2018)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 01 2019, Chris Lamb  wrote:
> Hi Nikolaus,
>
>> >  * Followed-up on progress regarding potential new "Member Benefits"
>> >[9] and ensured that some previously-promised reports for events
>> >funded by Debian ended up appearing on Planet [10].
>> >
>> >I also provided solicited (!) advice to a few other developers on
>> >conference booths and suitable/alternative conferences they may
>> >wish to attend instead.
>> 
>> Is there something missing here? Attend instead of what, and how does
>> that relate to member benefits?
>
> I don't believe anything is missing; these are two standalone
> sentences on different topics. ("X conference? Thought about Y
> conference instead?")

Then maybe a missing bullet point for the second paragraph? But even
with that I remain rather confused. What is the conference for which
these developers wanted an alternative, and why?

(I'm just very curious)

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: fuse -> fuse3

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Dec 25 2018, "Theodore Y. Ts'o"  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:03:34PM +0100, Oibaf wrote:
>> The package fuse3 is available since awhile in sid/buster.
>> Their users however are still using old fuse (v2), e.g. sshfs-fuse.
>> According to this:
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=912528
>> fuse3 is not co-installable with fuse, but a patch is available.
>> 
>> So is there a chance this get fixed and sshfs-fuse and other package can be
>> updated to use fuse3 for buster?
>
> Thanks for mentioning it!  I didn't even *know* about the existence of
> fuse3.  Is libfuse3 API compatible with fuse2?

No, but in most cases the necessary changes are not too invasive.

> P.S.  If fuse3 and fuse are not co-installable, we really should have
> managed this as a formal buster migration earlier.

They are co-installable in principle, this is just a bug in packaging.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Bits from the DPL (December 2018)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Dec 31 2018, Chris Lamb  wrote:
>  * Followed-up on progress regarding potential new "Member Benefits"
>[9] and ensured that some previously-promised reports for events
>funded by Debian ended up appearing on Planet [10].
>
>I also provided solicited (!) advice to a few other developers on
>conference booths and suitable/alternative conferences they may
>wish to attend instead.

Is there something missing here? Attend instead of what, and how does
that relate to member benefits?


Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.33+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 20:04:28 +
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Version: 2.33+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.33+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted s3ql 2.32+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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 s3ql (2.32+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Bug#912752: ITP: pyfuse3 -- Python 3 bindings for libfuse 3 using asynchronous I/O

[Nikolaus Rath]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Nikolaus Rath 

* Package name: pyfuse3
  Version : 1.1
  Upstream Author : Nikolaus Rath 
* URL : https://github.com/libfuse/pyfuse3
* License : LGPL
  Programming Lang: Python
  Description : Python 3 bindings for libfuse 3 using asynchronous I/O

pyfuse3 is a set of Python 3 bindings for libfuse 3. It provides
an asynchronous API compatible with Trio.

The package will be maintained inside the Python modules team.

There are a number of Python bindings for libfuse, but most are
not compatible with libfuse3 and none supports asynchronous I/O.

I intend to upload the package as soon as someone decides
to package Trio (https://github.com/python-trio/trio).

Accepted s3ql 2.30+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2018 12:48:32 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.30+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.30+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * d/copyright: Use https protocol in Format field
   * d/control: Removing redundant Priority field in binary package
   * d/rules: Remove trailing whitespaces
   * Convert git repository from git-dpm to gbp layout
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.5+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:24:40 +0200
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.5+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 906080
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.5+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * Convert git repository from git-dpm to gbp layout
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * python3-llfuse-dbg: recommend python3-dbg, not python-dbg. Closes:
 #906080.
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted s3ql 2.29+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2018 11:13:54 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.29+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.29+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * No-change re-upload. Previous version somehow didn't make it
 into the archive.
 .
 s3ql (2.29+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Re: Should the weboob package stay in Debian?

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jul 26 2018, Adam Borowski  wrote:
>> Promoting objectification of half of the world's population doesn't
>> count as constructive social interaction in my understanding.
>
> That "objectification" is an invention of your particular religion[1].

I honestly don't see any connection to religion here. Even if we assume
that Christianity has a problem with sex (I believe this is what you
have in mind), this has no relevance to the fact that being objectified
does not create a welcoming environment for the affected people.


Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.3+dfsg-4 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 16:59:10 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.3+dfsg-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.3+dfsg-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * Do not modify proxy settings in integration tests, this change was
 actually meant for a different package.
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * d/control: Remove ancient X-Python-Version field
   * d/control: Remove ancient X-Python3-Version field
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * Drop -Werror=conversion, causes build failure with new Cython
 (or maybe new GCC?)
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How to help getting libfuse updated?

[Nikolaus Rath]

control: retitle 840075 "Please package libfuse 3"
thanks

Hi Laszlo,

What kind of help would be needed to move this forward? 

libfuse 3 has been released in 2016, and this bug has been open for even longer 
(giving advance notice and referring to a pre-release for testing) with no 
update. It is important for me (as upstream and user) to see this fixed before 
buster. It also blocks the upload of SSHFS 3. 

Please let me know if there is anything I can do.

If you absolutely don't have time for this I could create and maintain a 
completely separate libfuse3 package . I think this would require some nasty 
use of dpkg-divert to handle conflicting files though, and having separate 
maintainers for libfuse2 and libfuse3 doesn't sound great either. I'd much 
prefer if I could somehow help you with this.

Cc'ing debian-devel in case there's some mail delivery problem or someone else 
has a suggestion what to do.

Best,
-Nikolaus

--
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.28+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:19:15 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.28+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.28+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted s3ql 2.27.1+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:05:27 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.27.1+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath 
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath 
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 851375
Changes:
 s3ql (2.27.1+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Sporadic test failure in t3_verify.py fixed upstream. Closes: #851375.
   * new upstream version
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.3+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 19:09:23 +0100
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.3+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.3+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version.
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Accepted s3ql 2.26+dfsg-4 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2018 20:05:17 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.26+dfsg-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.26+dfsg-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Disable http + https proxy in tests (previously only the http_proxy
 environment variable has unset).
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Accepted s3ql 2.26+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:55:21 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.26+dfsg-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.26+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Disable proxy in integration tests.
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Accepted s3ql 2.26+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:51:16 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.26+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 894717
Changes:
 s3ql (2.26+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Drop pytest-catchlog dependency in favor of pytest >= 3.3. Closes:
 #894717.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.3+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:47:38 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.3+dfsg-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 894716
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.3+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Get rid of python-catchlog dependency for integration tests
 as well. Closes: #894716.
   * Disable proxy in integration tests.
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.2+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:05:59 +0100
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.2+dfsg-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Closes: 894714
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.2+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * d/control: Set Vcs-* to salsa.debian.org
   * d/copyright: Use https protocol in Format field
 .
 python-dugong (3.7.2+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Drop pytest-catchlog dependency in favor of pytest >= 3.3. Closes:
 #894714.
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.2+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:53:12 +0100
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.2+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Closes: 894714
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.2+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Drop pytest-catchlog dependency in favor of pytest >= 3.3. Closes:
 #894714.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.3+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 21:19:02 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.3+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 894716
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.3+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fully drop pytest-catchlog dependency (previous upload only dropped
 dependency for Python 3 by accident). Closes: #894716.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.3+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:51:40 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.3+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
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 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
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 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 892616
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.3+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Ondřej Nový ]
   * d/control: Set Vcs-* to salsa.debian.org
   * d/copyright: Use https protocol in Format field
   * d/control: Deprecating priority extra as per policy 4.0.1
   * d/changelog: Remove trailing whitespaces
   * d/control: Remove trailing whitespaces
 .
   [ Nikolaus Rath ]
   * New upstream release.
   * Dropped pytest-catchlog dependency, depend on py.test 3.3
 instead. Closes: #892616.
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Re: New lintian warning: vcs-deprecated-in-debian-infrastructure

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Mar 23 2018, Ben Finney  wrote:
>> You need online access to make use of the above information in any
>> way.
>>
>> If you want to contact the maintainer you need internet access
>
> With the maintainer email address, I do not need internet access to
> compose an email message. Without that information I can't.
>
>> if you want to visit the upstream homepage you need internet access
>
> With the upstream home page URL, I do not need internet access to
> bookmark a URL. Without that URL I can't.

Are that practical concerns or theoretical objections to the generality
of the statement?

You can still compose the email message, you'll just add the recipient
address later once you have internet.

Yeah, you can't bookmark the URL - but why would you? Just "bookmark"
the name of the package, and once you have internet access use the
(pre-existing) bookmark to the site that will give you a link to the
upstream homepage.

>> etc.
>
> So, there are plenty of uses for information that do not require
> internet access *at the time of using* the information.

Does "plenty" refer to the two examples you gave? 

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.26+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 11:39:35 +
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.26+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 887375
Changes:
 s3ql (2.26+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Added Depends: procps. Closes: #887375.
   * New upstream version.
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.2+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:09:49 +
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.2+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.2+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * python-dugong-doc is now Multi-Arch: foreign.
   * New upstream version.
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Effect of build profiles

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 11 2018, Johannes Schauer  wrote:
> We can check whether two binary packages built with a different set of
> build profiles active are actually the same by using the tools from
> the reproducible builds project.

Now I'm mightily confused. What's the point of build profiles if they
result in identical binary packages? It seems to me in that case we
could just always use the "simplest" build profile.

I guess with "the same" you must mean something other than "bitwise
identical" - but it's not clear to me what.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.25+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:05:16 +0100
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.25+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.25+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.2+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:03:03 +
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.2+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.2+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fixed up patches/mips_dev_t.diff (missing file)
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3.2+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:51:16 +
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3.2+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 877500
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3.2+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream version.
   * Don't apply dev_t fix to mips64 (just mips and mipsel).
 Closes: #877500
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Accepted s3ql 2.24+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2017 14:04:39 +
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.24+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 877204
Changes:
 s3ql (2.24+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
   * Fixed bogus test failure. Closes: #877204
   * Bumped standards version to 4.1.1
   * Added support for 'nodoc' build option.
   * Marked s3ql-doc as Multi-Arch: same
   * Changed package section from extra to optional
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2017 15:21:45 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3+dfsg-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Updated standards version to 4.1.1
   * Added support for 'nodoc' in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS.
   * python-llfuse-doc is now Multi-Arch: foreign
   * Fixed mips_dev_t.diff one more time. One mips, dev_t is unsigned
 and we have to apply the match for mips, not just mips64.
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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.1+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2017 13:12:07 +0100
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.1+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.1+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Updated standards version to 4.1.1
   * Added support for 'nodoc' in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 14:58:36 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fix build for mips
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.3+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 11:30:10 +0100
Source: python-llfuse
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python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.3+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
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 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
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 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.3+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new upstream release
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Re: Whether remotely running software is considered "software" for Debian.

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Aug 28 2017, Andrey Rahmatullin  wrote:
> My position is that it should acceptable for a program in main to require
> a non-free service, or data, or whatever, as long as that program itself
> is free and running it doesn't compromise the freedom of the user.
> contrib should be for wrappers, downloaders etc. The policy uses the word
> "supplemental".

If this is your position, then your position on the unrar scenario
should logically be that putting the non-free components on a server
somewhere is sufficient to allow unrar into main. If not, please
explain.

>> Finally, for the third time, please explain your position on my hypothetical
>> unrar-nonfree scenario.
>
> I don't have a position in that scenario because I don't intend to dig it
> and examine it.

There is no need to dig and examine. Bas has provided all the context
that is necessary.

> I don't know why are you counting times unless you view this
> discussion as a battle between you and the world.

I probably share your point of view rather than Bas', but the way you
represent it is a disservice. It makes you look silly and for some
reason unwilling to address Bas core argument.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.23+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

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Version: 2.23+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.23+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Re: Embedded library copies - mergerfs

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Aug 07 2017, Antonio SJ Musumeci  wrote:
[libfuse]
> There are secondary issues related to v2 being no longer maintained

What makes you think so? I'm not adding new features, but it's
definitely still being maintained.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Embedded library copies - mergerfs

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Aug 07 2017, Ben Finney  wrote:
> By your description, the upstream code doesn't do that. One obvious
> workaround is to remove the embedded library in the Debian ‘mergerfs’
> package ‘clean’ target, patch the software to instead use Debian's
> packaged ‘libfuse’ library, and maintain that patch in the Debian
> ‘mergerfs’ package, indefinitely.
>
> There may be some upstream changes that you could suggest which would
> make that easier. Could a bit of refactoring in ‘mergerfs’ allow for an
> easily configurable ‘libfuse’ location? Could those changes be made
> acceptable by the upstream developer?

libfuse upstream here. I am not aware of any open (non documentation-)
bugs reported by mergefs people. So by that criterion mergefs should
work just fine with the packaged libfuse.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Naming of network devices - how to improve it in buster

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jul 11 2017, Simon McVittie  wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 at 13:45:25 +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote:
>> I got to ask: Why?  We do not have stable names for e.g. disks.  Why do
>> we need it for network devices?
>
> We do have stable names for disks: look in /dev/disk/by-* and you'll see
> a bewildering variety of ways to refer to the same disk or partition.

I wonder if anyone actually uses /dev/disk/by-path?

> The thing that is different for network devices is that network
> devices are not files (device nodes), so udev cannot create a symlink
> /dev/network/by-mac/01:23:45:67:89:ab -> /dev/network/eth0 or whatever.
> Network devices are (as far as I know) the only class of device managed by
> udev that is not backed by a device node, which means udev cannot provide
> multiple equivalent names for the same device, and is forced to choose
> exactly one of those names, and rename the device if the chosen name
> is not the kernel-generated one. That is why naming network devices is,
> and has always been, more controversial than naming disks: they are the
> one device class in Linux that violates the Unix design rule-of-thumb
> "everything is a file".
>
> If network devices were files, udev wouldn't have a configurable
> NamePolicy to rename them: it would just provide symlinks for all the
> possible naming policies, and let the sysadmin use any, all or none of
> those names when configuring tools like ifupdown. Unfortunately, that
> isn't possible.

Independent of the current discussion: why not? Is there something that
would prevent the kernel from starting to provide network device nodes
in /dev in some future release?

It seems to me that providing a file in /dev and internally mapping this
to the old device name shouldn't be that big a thing...


Curious,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Naming of network devices - how to improve it in buster

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jul 11 2017, Michael Biebl  wrote:
> Am 11.07.2017 um 12:14 schrieb Guus Sliepen:
>> Ok, it should be clear now that the new way of naming interfaces is not
>> ideal, but the older ways weren't either. Let's have a look at what we
>> want:
>> 
>> - A simple name for systems with a single Ethernet and/or Wireless
>>   interface (the simple desktop/laptop scenario).
>
> How would you determine that a system will only ever have a single
> interface?

I don't think it's necessary to do that automatically. On most systems
with multiple interfaces of the same kind, the admin will know about it
and can explicitly enable the extra functionality that is needed to get
stable names in that situation.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Accepted s3ql 2.22+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:53:10 -0700
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.22+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Changes:
 s3ql (2.22+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Dropped jessie compatibility patches.
   * New upstream release
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Re: What HN would like to see in buster

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jun 20 2017, Sean Whitton  wrote:
> While browsing the thread, I was struck by the number of requests for
> tools and features that we already have -- things like checkinstall,
> reportbug, dgit and continued support for sysvinit.
>
> I don't know how we could better go about advertising such things, but
> it's somewhat tragic that features into which so much volunteer effort
> has been poured are, apparently, barely accessible to outsiders.

Not just outsiders. There is a number of tools that provide what I'd
consider important, core distribution features, yet I only learned about
them because they were mentioned in passing on debian-devel.

Apologies for not being more constructive.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Accepted python-dugong 3.7.1+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:39:56 -0700
Source: python-dugong
Binary: python3-dugong python-dugong-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 3.7.1+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-dugong-doc - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python (documentation)
 python3-dugong - HTTP 1.1 client module for Python
Changes:
 python-dugong (3.7.1+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new upstream release
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Re: Too many Recommends (in particular on mail-transport-agent)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jun 08 2017, Adrian Bunk  wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 03:26:35PM +0200, Christian Seiler wrote:
>>...
>>  - You install package A, which Recommends: B, but you don't
>>want B, notice that at the time, and either remove B
>>afterwards, or install A with --no-install-recommends. But
>>then you install package C at a later point in time, which
>>actually depends on B. You notice that C is not what you
>>wanted, purge it again, but apt-get autoremove will _not_
>>remove B, even though it's automatically installed, because
>>A recommends it.
>> 
>>So basically, the following command sequence may or may not
>>leave your system in an identical state, depending on the
>>packages that previously have been installed on your system:
>> 
>>   apt-get install A
>>   apt-get purge A
>>   apt-get autoremove --purge
>> 
>>Unfortunately, I don't see a good solution to this problem,
>>and I've thought about this a lot in the past.
>>...
>
> apt-get blacklist-from-recommends-install B
> (or a similar entry in a configuration file)

I might be able to get this today when using debfoster ("negative
keepers").

Best,
Nikolaus


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Re: Switch default installation image link?

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jun 06 2017, Steve McIntyre  wrote:
> I'm *also* tempted to switch from the netinst to the first DVD image
> instead - network connections have improved a lot.

Why is that relevant? Is installing+downloading the DVD image faster
than downloading netint + installing from network?

Personally, I would only ever download a DVD image if I was on a *slow*
connection and knew that I had to install to multiple machines.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: A proposal for a tool to build local testing debs

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 25 2017, Sean Whitton  wrote:
> Then in dgit-user(7), the SUMMARY would become
>
> SUMMARY
>(These runes will be discussed later.)
>
>% dgit clone glibc jessie,-security
>% cd glibc
>% wget 
> 'https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=28250;mbox=yes;msg=89' | 
> patch -p1 -u
>% git commit -a -m 'Fix libc lost output bug'
>% sudo apt-get build-dep glibc

I think the last line should better be

$ mk-build-deps -i

..in that case you won't get bitten if the build deps of the new package
differ from the build deps of the package in the archive.

Does build-dep require deb-src in sources.list? If so, the above removes
that requirement as well.

Best,
-Nikolaus


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Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 15 2017, Adam Borowski  wrote:
>> https://www.debian.org/
>
> Not that different from Gentoo's.  What's the problem you're seeing?

I think this is one of the those situations where if you don't see it
yourself right away, you'll just have to take other people's word for
it. It may not be that different for you, but there's a big difference
for at least some other people.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth?

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 15 2017, gregor herrmann  wrote:
> On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:43:56 +0200, Johannes Schauer wrote:
>
>> Quoting Jonathan Dowland (2017-05-15 10:25:30)
>> > ^ how many of these are from teams (like pkg-gnome, at one point at least)
>> > who want to switch to git but lack the time or person-power or motivation 
>> > to
>> > perform the task?
>
>> The top 10 teams with packages in SVN are:
> […]
>> 285 Debian Perl Group 
>> [...]
>>  140 Debian Python Modules Team 
>> 
>
> The Debian Perl Group switched from svn to git in Summer 2011.

Same for the Debian Python Modules Team.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Apr 08 2017, Wouter Verhelst  wrote:
>> - Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
>> - Volume Hotkeys
>> - Brightness Hotkeys
>> - Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
>
> These are all implemented by ACPI on modern hardware. You need to have
> something that turns the ACPI events into something useful.
>
> If you have acpid installed, it usually turns the ACPI events into X11
> key events,
[...]

The "usually" is the problem :-).

>> - Hot-plug of external monitor
>
> Haven't gotten that to do anything useful, but then I also don't want it
> to (I just run xrander and tell it what I want changed).

That's what I mean. But again, xrandr doesn't always see a monitor when
you plug it in. And at the moment my X11 crashes when I unplug the
HDMI connection without first explicitly turning it off.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Apr 06 2017, Gunnar Wolf <gw...@debian.org> wrote:
> Nikolaus Rath dijo [Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:18:57PM -0700]:
>> >> I have a very different perception
>> >
>> > Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
>> > a good laptop which works well with Linux.
>> 
>> I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
>> finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
>> have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
>> tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
>> commercially.
>
> FWIW it's been a long time since I had any problems in this regard,
> and I'm surprised it's still an issue among knowledgeable people by
> 2017!

Maybe I'm just exceedingly unlucky, but I have yet to find a laptop
where all of the following works:

- Suspend
- Hibernate
- Airplane-mode Hotkey (especially hard apparently)
- Volume Hotkeys
- Brightness Hotkeys
- Suspend/hibernate hotkeys
- Hot-plug of external monitor

>From memory, some of the models I tried and found lacking: Asus EeePC,
Lenovo Carbon X1, HP Elitebook from ~3 years ago, HP Elitebook from just
now.

Suggestions for the next purchase are welcome :-).

(but probably better off-list)

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?"

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Apr 05 2017, Ian Jackson  wrote:
> Florian Lohoff writes ("Re: "Ask HN: What do you want to see in Ubuntu 
> 17.10?""):
>> On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 02:56:04PM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
>> > As far as I can tell, for laptop's rebooting is a non-issue mainly
>> > because suspend is not reliable enough to use safely [0] - so they are
>> > rebooted every day.  Ergo just fixing bug #744753 would be the cure if
>> > it is indeed the problem - but it doesn't sound like it to me as this
>> > isn't a suspend issue.
>> 
>> I have a very different perception
>
> Me too.  I guess it depends very much on whether one can afford to buy
> a good laptop which works well with Linux.

I think there's a pre-requisite that's much harder for a lot of people:
finding out what laptop works well with Linux. This is the stage where I
have repeatedly failed - the differences in model numbers are just too
tiny and subtle, and typically things that work well are no longer sold
commercially.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Help requested: Packages which FTBFS randomly

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Feb 21 2017, Vincent Bernat <ber...@debian.org> wrote:
>  ❦ 21 février 2017 09:48 -0800, Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org> :
>
>>> Your chosen build environment is not common [...]
>>
>> This has come up a few times now. Could someone explain what is so odd
>> about his envirnoment? It does not look unusual to me.
>
> Official buildd have several CPU. Most "important" downstream
> distribution builders have several CPU. [...]

Yes, but last time I checked a "apt-get source && debuild -us -uc" still
defaults to using just a single CPU unless you explicitly set
DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel. So if this causes the build to fail, it will
directly affect those users least able to figure out what may be wrong.

> Accomodating for all build environments is a slippery slope.

In my opinion there is a big difference between asking builds to work
with a single CPU, and supporting "all build environments".


Best,
-Nikoalus

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Re: Help requested: Packages which FTBFS randomly

[Nikolaus Rath]

> Your chosen build environment is not common [...]


This has come up a few times now. Could someone explain what is so odd
about his envirnoment? It does not look unusual to me.


Best,
-Nikolaus
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Re: Git hosting for code that provides Debian services

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 30 2017, Lars Wirzenius  wrote:
> I personally don't find "open core" projects to be fully free
> software, even if they follow current DFSG, OSI, and FSF criteria. 

This strikes me as a little odd, though. So if the company that sells 
the "closed shell" goes bust, would that turn the remaining core into
free software for you? 

Or, to put it differently, is an orphaned project with no maintainer to
accept patches preferable to a project with an active maintainer who
rejects some useful patches (because he wants to sell them), but accepts
others?

Curious,
-Nikolaus

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Accepted python-llfuse 1.2+dfsg-1 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 14:42:22 -0800
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.2+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.2+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.1.1+dfsg-7 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:54:54 -0800
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.1.1+dfsg-7
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
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symbols)
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 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.1.1+dfsg-7) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fix syntax error introduced with new Debian patch in -6.
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Accepted python-llfuse 1.1.1+dfsg-6 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 16:36:43 -0800
Source: python-llfuse
Binary: python-llfuse python-llfuse-dbg python3-llfuse python3-llfuse-dbg 
python-llfuse-doc
Architecture: source
Version: 1.1.1+dfsg-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 python-llfuse - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python-llfuse-dbg - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
 python-llfuse-doc - Python bindings for the low-level FUSE API (documentation)
 python3-llfuse - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API
 python3-llfuse-dbg - Python 3 bindings for the low-level FUSE API (debugging 
symbols)
Closes: 851724
Changes:
 python-llfuse (1.1.1+dfsg-6) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Ignore exceptions during interpreter shutdown
 .
 These can most likely be ignored in general. In the specific
 case that we are addressing with this, they also seem to be
 caused by a bug in Python. Closes: #851724.
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Accepted s3ql 2.21+dfsg-3 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:35:21 -0800
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.21+dfsg-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 851375
Changes:
 s3ql (2.21+dfsg-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Expect test_verify() to fail during build. There is a race
 condition in the test that still needs to be fixed, but this
 should not cause the build to fail. Closes: #851375.
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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 10 2017, Guido Günther <a...@sigxcpu.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 04, 2017 at 04:38:11PM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> On Jan 05 2017, Brian May <b...@debian.org> wrote:
>> > Vincent Bernat <ber...@debian.org> writes:
>> >
>> >> There have been a lot of complaints about it. For me, it is a pain to
>> >> use. Its integration with gbp is poor, it produces a messy history when
>> >> you are working on your patches and I often run into problems with
>> >> .debian/.git-dpm file it maintains (import a new upstream, make some
>> >> changes, notice that somebody else also pushed a change, pull --rebase,
>> >> everything is broken). Since we started using it, we opened a lot of bug
>> >> reports and not a single one of them has been fixed. I think that nobody
>> >> wants to work on it because it is an extremely fragile tool and the
>> >> first one to try to fix it will inherit of all the problems to solve.
>> >
>> > It also has a number of bugs that are not getting fixed.
>> 
>> Yeah, I think we heard before that git-dpm is not being maintained. I
>> said it, Vincent said it in his reply, and now you are saying it
>> again. No one is disputing the point.
>> 
>> > Plus if conflicts occur because multiple people unexpectedly make
>> > changes at the same time it (i.e. you can't push because somebody else
>> > already pushed changes) can be a world of confusion trying to sort out
>> > the mess.
>> 
>> Yes, it is a mess. But I don't think it's any worse than having to
>> resolve conflicts in debian/patches/, which is the equivalent problem
>> when multiple people use gbp at the same time.
>
> When this happens you do a "gbp pq import" and have the full power of
> git rebas at your hands.

Are you sure? The problem we're talking about is when two conflicting
changes to debian/patches have been committed. I think in that case you
first have to solve the git conflict before you can call gbp pq - or can
gbp pq import really deal with conflict markers *inside the patch*?

Best,
-Nikolaus

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 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 07 2017, Thibaut Paumard  wrote:
> Well, just to say, I'm personally quite happy with '3.0 (quilt)'. I try
> to maintain all my packages in git in unapplied state, because in my
> opinion this is the sensible thing to do. When I do a
>   git diff upstream master
> I want to see only debian/ in there.

What's the point of that? If the only difference is the addition of the
debian/ directory, you can simply look at the debian directory. There's
no need to use git.

> I much prefer to check a diff of diff over a simple diff,

Wow, ok. That is astonishing to hear, but I'll take your word for it.

> For me the patch is the final product, I like the clear separation
> between upstream and debian/, so it's for me a very appealing design to
> have individual patches in debian/patches. I use git to keep the history
> of the patch, not to manage it.

And so is this. Well, I definitely learned something new in this thread.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 06 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
> Hello Nikolaus,
>
> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 03:59:40PM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> On Jan 05 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 12:39:25PM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> >> But, as far as I can tell, doing this work up-front is much easier:
>> >
>> > Yes, but you have to do it every single time you make changes that you
>> > want to be able to push (i.e. more than once per upload).
>> 
>> What do you mean with "it"? You don't have to resolve any conflicts
>> unless you update to a new upstream that conflicts with your patches, or
>> unless you change a patch in such a way that it conflicts with a
>> different patch.
>
> Sorry to have been unclear.  I meant the `gbp import`, (at a minimum)
> check things are right, `gbp export` dance.
>
> This is a lot more work than `git commit`!

Aeh, what?

If you make changes to debian/, you need only 'git commit'.

If you change something in the upstream source (aka, add a new patch),
the "dance" is:

$ gbp pq import
$ # make changes
$ git commit; gbp pq export

And similarly for git-dpm. Surely typing these two extra commands is not
"a lot more work", is it? Note that they will succeed without
interaction.


If you want to edit an existing patch, you need to add one "git rebase
-i" command. I would maybe count that as "more work", but certainly not
as "a lot more".


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

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Accepted s3ql 2.21+dfsg-2 (source) into unstable

[Nikolaus Rath]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 11:29:24 -0800
Source: s3ql
Binary: s3ql s3ql-dbg
Architecture: source
Version: 2.21+dfsg-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Changed-By: Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org>
Description:
 s3ql   - Full-featured file system for online data storage
 s3ql-dbg   - Full-featured file system for online data storage (debugging symb
Closes: 850458
Changes:
 s3ql (2.21+dfsg-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Bumped python3-pytest dependency to minimum version required
 by upstream.
   * Added build-dependency on procps. Closes: #850458
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Re: unattended-upgrades by default

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 06 2017, Santiago Vila  wrote:
> If we want to be the Universal OS, we can't assume that any time
> (not chosen by the user) is ok to do an upgrade.

If we want to be the Universal OS, we can't assume that users will
explicitly trigger an install of security upgrades either. Nor can we
assume that running without security updates is acceptable.

What now?

(Sorry for not being constructive, but these "Universal OS" arguments
can really be used to argue for and against anything).


Best,
-Nikolaus


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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 05 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 12:39:25PM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> But, as far as I can tell, doing this work up-front is much easier:
>
> Yes, but you have to do it every single time you make changes that you
> want to be able to push (i.e. more than once per upload).

What do you mean with "it"? You don't have to resolve any conflicts
unless you update to a new upstream that conflicts with your patches, or
unless you change a patch in such a way that it conflicts with a
different patch.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F
Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 05 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
> Dear Nikolaus,
>
> On Wed, Jan 04, 2017 at 09:44:14AM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> No, that's a misunderstanding.
>> 
>> "The information I need" is the Debian-specific modifications to the
>> current upstream source, separated into logically independent patches.
>> 
>> Having separate patches in debian/patches gives me this information very
>> quickly.
>> 
>> Having to run git log, and then to manually merge the the commits gives
>> me the same information, but it is not "very quickly".
>> 
>> 
>> This is the drawback of the single-debian-patch approach. The fact that
>> the patches are available in individual Git commits no longer helps
>> after a few merges.
>
> Thanks for your reply.  I see what you mean.
>
> The difference between our approachs seems to be whether we do the
> semantic work up front, when making an upload, or later, when extracting
> information by means of `git log` and `git diff`.

But, as far as I can tell, doing this work up-front is much easier:

When using git-dpm or gbp-pq, the tool will present you with the
conflicts separately for each Debian-modification that is being
rebased. Resolving the conflicts is the only work you have to do.

If you do the work later, then you start with a bunch of commits, any of
which potentially contains parts of multiple Debian modifications. It is
not clear how me how you would go about untangling them in a systematic
way.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F

 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 05 2017, Brian May  wrote:
> Vincent Bernat  writes:
>
>> There have been a lot of complaints about it. For me, it is a pain to
>> use. Its integration with gbp is poor, it produces a messy history when
>> you are working on your patches and I often run into problems with
>> .debian/.git-dpm file it maintains (import a new upstream, make some
>> changes, notice that somebody else also pushed a change, pull --rebase,
>> everything is broken). Since we started using it, we opened a lot of bug
>> reports and not a single one of them has been fixed. I think that nobody
>> wants to work on it because it is an extremely fragile tool and the
>> first one to try to fix it will inherit of all the problems to solve.
>
> It also has a number of bugs that are not getting fixed.

Yeah, I think we heard before that git-dpm is not being maintained. I
said it, Vincent said it in his reply, and now you are saying it
again. No one is disputing the point.

> Plus if conflicts occur because multiple people unexpectedly make
> changes at the same time it (i.e. you can't push because somebody else
> already pushed changes) can be a world of confusion trying to sort out
> the mess.

Yes, it is a mess. But I don't think it's any worse than having to
resolve conflicts in debian/patches/, which is the equivalent problem
when multiple people use gbp at the same time.

> I have had to sort out the mess when the Debian package upload
> did not match my git tree because another maintainer didn't correctly
> merge in my changes.

I don't understand... how does a Debian package upload affect any of the
work on your git-dpm tree?


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 04 2017, Vincent Bernat <ber...@debian.org> wrote:
>  ❦  4 janvier 2017 09:47 -0800, Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org> :
>
>>>>>> It's surprisingly awkward, and, at least for me, it turns out that
>>>>>> externalizing my rebased branch as a patch series solves many of
>>>>>> problems surprisingly well.  All the other solutions I can think of
>>>>>> require one or more things I don't really want to do: rebase the
>>>>>> debian/master branch, not be able to run dpkg-buildpackage from the
>>>>>> debian/master branch easily, or require that dpkg-buildpackage do
>>>>>> more mucking about with source control than I want it to.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe the git-dpm approach would give you everything you want.  The
>>>>>explanation on http://git-dpm.alioth.debian.org/ is pretty good.
>>>>>
>>>>>I personally think that technically git-dpm's approach is the best -
>>>>>but
>>>>>unfortunately the program itself is effectively unmaintained and
>>>>>apparently/consequently not used by many people.
>>>>
>>>> The Debian Python Modules Team (DPMT) has about 1,000 packages with
>>>> git-dpm repositories.  While it took a bit of getting used to and
>>>> there have been a few problems, overall I think it's worked very well.
>>>> It's biggest problem is the lack of a maintainer.
>>>
>>> There have been a lot of complaints about it. For me, it is a pain to
>>> use. Its integration with gbp is poor,
>>
>> Well, I think that is because it is mostly an *alternative* to
>> gbp. Other than gbp dch (which I think should work fine), what features
>> of gbp would you like to use with git-dpm?
>
> gbp import-orig --uscan (the whole import with git-dpm is flawed, there
> are too many ways to fail, like a patch that cannot be rebased and the
> pristine-tar branch is not updated, like the previous upstream was not
> tagged because not released [and git-dpm only tags upstream when master
> is tagged] and it fails in the middle of the process, gbp rollbacks when
> there is a problem).

I agree that's a mess. But I would much rather see the git-dpm import
fixed than interoperability with gbp increased.

Best,
-Nikolaus
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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 04 2017, Vincent Bernat  wrote:
>  ❦  4 janvier 2017 04:52 GMT, Scott Kitterman  :
>
 It's surprisingly awkward, and, at least for me, it turns out that
 externalizing my rebased branch as a patch series solves many of
 problems surprisingly well.  All the other solutions I can think of
 require one or more things I don't really want to do: rebase the
 debian/master branch, not be able to run dpkg-buildpackage from the
 debian/master branch easily, or require that dpkg-buildpackage do
 more mucking about with source control than I want it to.
>>>
>>>I believe the git-dpm approach would give you everything you want.  The
>>>explanation on http://git-dpm.alioth.debian.org/ is pretty good.
>>>
>>>I personally think that technically git-dpm's approach is the best -
>>>but
>>>unfortunately the program itself is effectively unmaintained and
>>>apparently/consequently not used by many people.
>>
>> The Debian Python Modules Team (DPMT) has about 1,000 packages with
>> git-dpm repositories.  While it took a bit of getting used to and
>> there have been a few problems, overall I think it's worked very well.
>> It's biggest problem is the lack of a maintainer.
>
> There have been a lot of complaints about it. For me, it is a pain to
> use. Its integration with gbp is poor,

Well, I think that is because it is mostly an *alternative* to
gbp. Other than gbp dch (which I think should work fine), what features
of gbp would you like to use with git-dpm?

> Since we started using it, we opened a lot of bug reports and not a
> single one of them has been fixed. I think that nobody wants to work
> on it because it is an extremely fragile tool and the first one to try
> to fix it will inherit of all the problems to solve.

Yes, I think that falls under "lack of a maintainer".
>
> Isn't "gbp pq" a correct execution of the same principles?

No, absolutely not.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 04 2017, Sean Whitton  wrote:
>> > I also read Russ's e-mail, but I'm not yet convinced that powerful tools
>> > like `git diff` and `git log` won't be able to give you the information
>> > you need pretty quickly.
>> 
>> Can you give an example? Eg if I have to Debian patched that both
>> produced merge conflicts at some point, how do I disentangle them into
>> two separate patches with just git log and git diff?
>
> Use the `git log` command I gave previously, and cherry-pick the commits
> you want.  Thanks to the merges, they won't apply cleanly, and you'll
> have to manually resolve the cherry-picks.  However, as evidenced by
> Russ's examples, manual resolution will always be required in these
> sorts of cases, and git minimises the amount of it you have to do.

No, that's a misunderstanding.

"The information I need" is the Debian-specific modifications to the
current upstream source, separated into logically independent patches.

Having separate patches in debian/patches gives me this information very
quickly.

Having to run git log, and then to manually merge the the commits gives
me the same information, but it is not "very quickly".


This is the drawback of the single-debian-patch approach. The fact that
the patches are available in individual Git commits no longer helps
after a few merges.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> wrote:
> Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org> writes:
>
>> The thing that's delivered to users in 99% of the cases is the binary
>> package. In the (comparatively) rare cases where the user is retrieving
>> the source, I am not convinced that most of these users truly prefer a
>> Debian-specific source package with patches in debian/patches over a
>> standard Git repository with patches as commits.
>
> Speaking as a Debian user who frequently has to apply local patches or
> produce local versions of Debian packages for my job (usually weird
> backports or bizarre local requirements), I cannot express to you how much
> I prefer a Debian source package with patches in debian/patches over a Git
> repository with patches as commits.

Yeah, but I was not talking about the strength of preferences but the
number of users that have them :-). Also, you happen to be a Debian
developer and are therefore already familiar with the Debian source
format...


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 04 2017, Paul Wise  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Guillem Jover wrote:
>
>> I'm interested in what things people still find so off-putting to the
>> point of not wanting to use the new 3.0 source formats.
>
> I've been reading this thread and keep being reminded of our
> discussion on #debian-dpkg a while ago.
>
> I think most of the complaints about Debian source package formats are
> rooted in a design mistake made early on. The debian/ directory. The
> debian/ dir controls the upstream source but is in a subdirectory of
> the upstream source. The directory hierarchy is an inverse of the
> relationship between its parts. The debian/patches/ dir is another
> layering violation on top of that.

That is a point I very much agree with in principle.

But I am not sure if a package structure like

mypkg/upstream/*
mypkg/debian/*
mypkg/patches/* (?)

would have any *practical* benefits over the current situation, because
this transformation could be trivially automated in either direction.


Or did you have something else in mind?


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Russ Allbery  wrote:
> It's surprisingly awkward, and, at least for me, it turns out that
> externalizing my rebased branch as a patch series solves many of these
> problems surprisingly well.  All the other solutions I can think of
> require one or more things I don't really want to do: rebase the
> debian/master branch, not be able to run dpkg-buildpackage from the
> debian/master branch easily, or require that dpkg-buildpackage do much
> more mucking about with source control than I want it to.

I believe the git-dpm approach would give you everything you want.  The
explanation on http://git-dpm.alioth.debian.org/ is pretty good.

I personally think that technically git-dpm's approach is the best - but
unfortunately the program itself is effectively unmaintained and
apparently/consequently not used by many people.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: "not authorised" doing various desktoppy things

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Ian Jackson  wrote:
> Recently, my nm-applet can no longer control my network-manager
> daemon.  I get a message saying[1]:
>
>   "org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.network-control-request failed: not
>   authorized"
>
> I think this is related to a similar problem in *-power-manager,
> #848623.
>
> I am running:
>   * sysvinit
>   * lightdm
>   * systemd-logind
>   * vtwm
>   * my own xsession script
> I thought I was running systemd-shim but I don't appear to be.
>
> Can someone please help explain to me how these things are supposed to
> work ?

I can't explain, but just a datapoint, the following similar stack works
fine:

* systemd
* lightdm
* i3 (executed via custom .xsession)

Maybe that helps to find the crucial difference.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 04 2017, Scott Kitterman  wrote:
>>Curating a patch series is only 5% slower than commiting directly to
>>the Git repository to me.  I just have to remember to gbp pq import
>>before making new changes, gbp pq export when I'm done, and once in a
>>great while I have to do a small bit of rebasing to merge changes back
>>into other patches.  It's quite easy for someone who is very familiar
>>with Git, using good tools.  That 5% would be even less if I did it
>>more often.
>>
>>I'm unconvinced that any of that work would really be avoided via other
>>mechanisms.  The most time-consuming part is rebasing and squashing
>>related changes together into one coherent diff, but that's going to be
>>just as hard with any of these tools since the hard work is semantic
>>and
>>requires thought, not just repository manipulation.
>
> And the thing that gets source delivered to users is the source
> package, not a git repository.  A proper set of patches is far more
> understandable than an undifferentiated pile of diff.

The thing that's delivered to users in 99% of the cases is the binary
package. In the (comparatively) rare cases where the user is retrieving
the source, I am not convinced that most of these users truly prefer a
Debian-specific source package with patches in debian/patches over a
standard Git repository with patches as commits.

> Sometimes I feel like people lose track of the fact that the VCS is a
> means to an end and not the end target of the work we're doing.

I think it's rather that people have different views of what the desired
end is. 


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> wrote:
> Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> writes:
>> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:36:22AM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>
>>> I still haven't really made up my mind if I want to use git-maint-merge
>>> or git-dpm. Russ recently raised a valid point with the Debian
>>> modifications over-time becoming all tangled up and impossible to
>>> separate.
>
>> I also read Russ's e-mail, but I'm not yet convinced that powerful tools
>> like `git diff` and `git log` won't be able to give you the information
>> you need pretty quickly.  It might take a little time to craft the right
>> command, but that is easily outweighed by the time saved curating a
>> patch series.
>
> Curating a patch series is only 5% slower than commiting directly to the
> Git repository to me.  I just have to remember to gbp pq import before
> making new changes, gbp pq export when I'm done, and once in a great while
> I have to do a small bit of rebasing to merge changes back into other
> patches.  It's quite easy for someone who is very familiar with Git, using
> good tools.  That 5% would be even less if I did it more often.

When talking about percentages, I think it's worth keeping in mind the
1000% longer that it takes to comprehend a diff of two patches-unapplied
trees (as gbp produces them) over a diff of two patches-applied trees
(as git-dpm and dgit with maint-merge workflow produce). I don't
understand how gbp became so much more popular than git-dpm.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Converting to dgit

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:36:22AM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> I still haven't really made up my mind if I want to use git-maint-merge
>> or git-dpm. Russ recently raised a valid point with the Debian
>> modifications over-time becoming all tangled up and impossible to
>> separate.
>
> I also read Russ's e-mail, but I'm not yet convinced that powerful tools
> like `git diff` and `git log` won't be able to give you the information
> you need pretty quickly.

Can you give an example? Eg if I have to Debian patched that both
produced merge conflicts at some point, how do I disentangle them into
two separate patches with just git log and git diff?

> It might take a little time to craft the right
> command, but that is easily outweighed by the time saved curating a
> patch series.

Well - that is obviously very much dependent on the git-fu of the person
doing the work.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:39:33AM -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>> >
>> > git log --oneline 1.2.3..debian/1.2.3-1 -- . ':!debian'
>> 
>> Yes, but that's not as useful as what git-debcherry produces.
>> 
>> For example, if you get a merge conflict when rebasing, the above
>> incantation will list two commits: the original debian commit and the
>> merge commit. git-debcherry, on the other hand, will synthesize one
>> patch, consisting of the original Debian commit, but modified to include
>> the *relevant parts* of the merge commit.
>
> That's a good point.  In this context, `git debcherry` is a tool to
> filter and neaten a git history.  However, it inserts another step
> between upstream, and powerful tools like git-cherry-pick and
> git-bisect.  Upstream now has to know that Debian has orig.tars and
> various ways of representing changes to them.
>
> If I were a busy upstream, I would much rather `git fetch` my Debian
> maintainer's branches, and then immediately set to work cherry-picking
> and bisecting.  I don't need any Debian-specific knowledge, except that
> which is relevant to the bug I'm trying to fix -- I don't need to know
> what an orig.tar is.  This is worth having to look at a few merge
> commits.

Are there really upstreams that do that? I'd expect that the primary
consumer of Debian patches are other distributions, downstreams, and
users.

I'd think that anything that's relevant for upstream development is
forwarded to upstream by the maintainer in whatever format upstream
prefers. This requires extra time, but I would be surprised to hear if
there are maintainers that have sufficient time to create patches that
are suitable for upstream, but don't have the little extra time to send
them upstream.

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org> wrote:
> On Jan 03 2017, Sean Whitton <spwhit...@spwhitton.name> wrote:
>> Hello Russ,
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 02, 2017 at 09:29:24AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>>> Furthermore, it forces a rebased, clean representation of the patches,
>>> which I for one hugely prefer to the mess that you get if someone was
>>> packaging in Git and just randomly commits things directly to the
>>> packaging branch intermixed with merges from upstream.  A few releases
>>> done that way will leave you almost completely unable to extract a rebased
>>> patch set against the current upstream source.  (I have made this mistake
>>> so many times with my own packages.)
>>
>> Aside from `git debcherry`, which was already mentioned, git itself can
>> get you this information.  For example:
>>
>> git log --oneline 1.2.3..debian/1.2.3-1 -- . ':!debian'
>>
>> This will get you all commits which touched the upstream source that
>> have not been merged upstream.  There can be as many merge commits as
>> you like in between.
>
> Yes, but that's not as useful as what git-debcherry produces.
>
> For example, if you get a merge conflict when rebasing, the above
[...]

This should of course have been "...merge conflict when merging in a new
upstream version".

Best,
-Nikolaus
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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Russ Allbery <r...@debian.org> wrote:
> Nikolaus Rath <nikol...@rath.org> writes:
>
>> For example, if you get a merge conflict when rebasing, the above
>> incantation will list two commits: the original debian commit and the
>> merge commit. git-debcherry, on the other hand, will synthesize one
>> patch, consisting of the original Debian commit, but modified to include
>> the *relevant parts* of the merge commit.
>
> Okay, yes, that sounds pretty awesome.  That may entirely remove my
> concerns about keeping the patches always rebased.

Well, as I said in my other mail: the big drawback is that even with a
small test tree running git-debcherry is already slow enough for the
user to ponder the implications of it being a 300 line bash script...

Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: Feedback on 3.0 source format problems

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jan 03 2017, Sean Whitton  wrote:
> Hello Russ,
>
> On Mon, Jan 02, 2017 at 09:29:24AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Furthermore, it forces a rebased, clean representation of the patches,
>> which I for one hugely prefer to the mess that you get if someone was
>> packaging in Git and just randomly commits things directly to the
>> packaging branch intermixed with merges from upstream.  A few releases
>> done that way will leave you almost completely unable to extract a rebased
>> patch set against the current upstream source.  (I have made this mistake
>> so many times with my own packages.)
>
> Aside from `git debcherry`, which was already mentioned, git itself can
> get you this information.  For example:
>
> git log --oneline 1.2.3..debian/1.2.3-1 -- . ':!debian'
>
> This will get you all commits which touched the upstream source that
> have not been merged upstream.  There can be as many merge commits as
> you like in between.

Yes, but that's not as useful as what git-debcherry produces.

For example, if you get a merge conflict when rebasing, the above
incantation will list two commits: the original debian commit and the
merge commit. git-debcherry, on the other hand, will synthesize one
patch, consisting of the original Debian commit, but modified to include
the *relevant parts* of the merge commit.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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