Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Thursday 02 March 2006 04:46, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: Package: libacme-brainfck-perl Provides: libacme-brainfuck-perl Ah, and back to the time when some words where magic and caused burn marks on the paper around the ink. I never have and probably never will see why some people find 'f*ck' less offensive than they find 'fuck'. Or - on air - beep. Language is mostly about transporting content, and a beep sound or written f*ck conveys exactly the same meaning as a plain 'fuck' (or, in the case of sound, a beep stresses the fact that a dirty magic word was said all the more.) But back to business, don't mind me -- vbi (.sig moderated to avoid dirty filters, of course.) -- featured product: Spam*ss*ssin - http://spam*ss*ssin.org pgpJ8QTpG447O.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:59 -0600, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01-Mar-06, 08:57 (CST), Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Annoying people who think that children are irrevocably damaged by reading the particular words. Children can be damaged by usage of the word brain? Well, that explains a lot about today's youth. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Scripsit Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] A programming language with the minimum number of instructions necessary to be turing-complete and have I/O may be more than a toy for some people. Perhaps. But (1) brainfuck isn't that; it has twice as many basic instructions as combinatory lambda calculus, and (2) the use of toy languages generally do not depend on having a compiler for them. -- Henning Makholm In my opinion, this child don't need to have his head shrunk at all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
(I'm not on -devel, so I constructed this reply by hand.) And given the reaction to porn-get and bitchx and whatever-the-stripping-cpu-monitor-was-called , I tend to assume[2] that the true intent of such an ITP is to instigate yet another 500 post flame war between the but what about the children crew and the you can't censor me! crew. It's all just so damn tiresome. I only saw the last one of the flame wars you mention, and it didn't even cross my mind that this ITP would gather similar attention. I've had this software packaged for many years, but I'm not a DD, and the ITP was only to follow the protocol of finding sponsors for the package. Besides, brainfuck is already present in the archive to a varying degree, so I didn't think this package would be somehow special. Note that the package name does not have any controversial words. Besides: if it's tiresome to argue about indecent words, is the solution, then, not to use them, or not to complain about using them? Or not to complain about the arguments? (I know this is flamebait, sorry, but these things just seem to be impossible to reach an agreement upon.) Panu -- personal contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED], +35841 5323835 technical contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/atehwa/ PGP fingerprint:0EA5 9D33 6590 FFD4 921C 5A5F BE85 08F1 3169 70EC -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On 02-Mar-06, 05:31 (CST), Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I only saw the last one of the flame wars you mention, and it didn't even cross my mind that this ITP would gather similar attention. Then I apologize for implying otherwise. Note that the package name does not have any controversial words. Well, I did; but nobody reads footnotes :-) Besides: if it's tiresome to argue about indecent words, is the solution, then, not to use them, or not to complain about using them? As with many things, there's no hard answer. A lot of of it depends on the audience, and reasonable people tend to tune their vocabulary accordingly (i.e. I try not to say fuck in front of my mother.) I would prefer to save my energy for battles with the Society of the Perpetually Offended for more important things (quoted to demonstrate that I understand that the value of the phrase is completely determined by personal opinion). So, to reiterate: if you're serious about packaging 'bfc', I certainly don't object. Just be prepared for the occasional whining from the SPO. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Curling braincells... I once wrote a Emacs Lisp implementation[1] of a BrainFuck compiler, its probably the simplest kinda-useful compiler you can implement. If someone wants to add this t emacs-goodies-el, I am fine with it :-) http://delysid.org/emacs/bf.el -- CYa, Mario -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:43:54 +0100 Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripsit Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] A programming language with the minimum number of instructions necessary to be turing-complete and have I/O may be more than a toy for some people. Perhaps. But (1) brainfuck isn't that; it has twice as many basic instructions as combinatory lambda calculus, and (2) the use of toy languages generally do not depend on having a compiler for them. BrainFuck is not just a proof-of-concept or a toy language. You can write actual programs using it. For example, you could replace `cat' with ,[.,] in BrainFuck: wouldn't this be useful in a boot floppy? O_o Seriously, there is even a complete textual adventure written in BrainFuck: http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html Isn't this real programming? -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Like Russian Rulette with six bullets loaded pgpTYCXUTWnlk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Scripsit Andrea Bolognani [EMAIL PROTECTED] BrainFuck is not just a proof-of-concept or a toy language. You can write actual programs using it. Seriously, there is even a complete textual adventure written in BrainFuck: http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html Do you claim that this is _not_ just a proof-of-concept item? -- Henning Makholm Man vælger jo selv sine forbilleder. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] I only saw the last one of the flame wars you mention, and it didn't even cross my mind that this ITP would gather similar attention. For the record, I don't care any which way about the name [1]; my reaction would have been the same if it was called brownfox. I was reacting to the (to me) evident uselessness of the proposed package. [1] Except that I think it grossly overstates the strangeness of what is just a straightforward if rather verbose encoding of a well-known computation model, but that is not the packager's fault. -- Henning Makholm Apologies if I am repeating obvious conclusions. My only gateway onto the Net is very expensive, and I miss many important postings... Please write to me and tell me what you think. I don't get much mail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:58:12 +0100 Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you claim that this is _not_ just a proof-of-concept item? No. It's fully usable and enjoinable. -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Like Russian Rulette with six bullets loaded pgpWVdTmi9Ukg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? -- Henning Makholm Ambiguous cases are defined as those for which the compiler being used finds a legitimate interpretation which is different from that which the user had in mind. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On 01-Mar-06, 08:57 (CST), Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Annoying people who think that children are irrevocably damaged by reading the particular words. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 12:47 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote: On 01-Mar-06, 08:57 (CST), Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Annoying people who think that children are irrevocably damaged by reading the particular words. Besides that? -- - Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson, LA USA The great tragedy of science -- the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. Thomas Huxley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
It's An Eight-Instruction Turing-Complete Programming Language. See: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck I suggest a better description for the ITP so people can see that the purpose of the package is not necessarily only to offend (if at all). -Tim On 3/1/06, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01-Mar-06, 08:57 (CST), Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Annoying people who think that children are irrevocably damaged by reading the particular words. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:59:12 -0600 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Besides that? BrainFuck is Everyone's Favourite Programming Language (TM). -- KiyuKo eof AT kiyuko DOT org Like Russian Rulette with six bullets loaded pgp4IRdXe6FQQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 12:59:12PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
Besides that?
It is essentially a toy, or a demonstration tool... depends on your
point of view. BrainFuck, from what I can tell, has been around for
years and is a Turing-complete programming language consisting of
only eight commands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
--
{ IRL(Jeremy_Stanley); PGP(9E8DFF2E4F5995F8FEADDC5829ABF7441FB84657);
SMTP([EMAIL PROTECTED]); IRC([EMAIL PROTECTED]); ICQ(114362511);
AIM(dreadazathoth); YAHOO(crawlingchaoslabs); FINGER([EMAIL PROTECTED]);
MUD([EMAIL PROTECTED]:6669); WWW(http://fungi.yuggoth.org/); }
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On 01-Mar-06, 13:05 (CST), Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's An Eight-Instruction Turing-Complete Programming Language. Yeah, I know. That doesn't make it useful[1]. And given the reaction to porn-get and bitchx and whatever-the-stripping-cpu-monitor-was-called , I tend to assume[2] that the true intent of such an ITP is to instigate yet another 500 post flame war between the but what about the children crew and the you can't censor me! crew. It's all just so damn tiresome. Steve [1] Not that I think useful is a necessary requirement, and brainfuck is a neat toy. I personally have no objection to the ITP. [2] Countering that is that the package is named bfc rather than brainfuck, so maybe I'm being unfair, and it's not a deliberate attempt to rile people. -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Scripsit The Fungi [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 12:59:12PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Besides that? It is essentially a toy, or a demonstration tool... depends on your point of view. Why should we use mirror bandwidth on either? BrainFuck, from what I can tell, has been around for years and is a Turing-complete programming language consisting of only eight commands: Basically just a horrible way to write down counter machines. Who would use that for anything? -- Henning Makholm We will discuss your youth another time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:57:17PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Panu Kalliokoski [EMAIL PROTECTED] * License : BSD-like Description : Brainfuck compiler What is this useful for? Pretty much the same thing that libacme-brainfck-perl is useful for. Cheers, aj signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On 3/1/06, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01-Mar-06, 13:05 (CST), Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's An Eight-Instruction Turing-Complete Programming Language. Yeah, I know. That doesn't make it useful[1]. Useful is a matter of opinion. A programming language with the minimum number of instructions necessary to be turing-complete and have I/O may be more than a toy for some people. Who knows, maybe you could prove theoretical stuff more easily with it. And given the reaction to porn-get and bitchx and whatever-the-stripping-cpu-monitor-was-called , I tend to assume[2] that the true intent of such an ITP is to instigate yet another 500 post flame war between the but what about the children crew and the you can't censor me! crew. It's all just so damn tiresome. I think we can give the packager the benefit of the doubt given that he maintains an archive of brainf*ck tools. -Tim Steve [1] Not that I think useful is a necessary requirement, and brainfuck is a neat toy. I personally have no objection to the ITP. [2] Countering that is that the package is named bfc rather than brainfuck, so maybe I'm being unfair, and it's not a deliberate attempt to rile people. -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Steve Greenland wrote: On 01-Mar-06, 13:05 (CST), Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And given the reaction to porn-get and bitchx and whatever-the-stripping-cpu-monitor-was-called , I tend to assume[2] that the true intent of such an ITP is to instigate yet another 500 post flame war between the but what about the children crew and the you can't censor me! crew. It's all just so damn tiresome. Then lets nip this in the bug right now. When I was packaging my Acme::Brainfuck perl module, the compromise made was: Package: libacme-brainfck-perl Provides: libacme-brainfuck-perl This way the casual peruser of package lists is not f-bombed and the searcher for the word brainfuck still gets matches. Thus both the children and the first amendment are saved hurrah! -- Jaldhar H. Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#354831: ITP: bfc -- Brainfuck compiler
Tim Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Useful is a matter of opinion. A programming language with the minimum number of instructions necessary to be turing-complete and have I/O may be more than a toy for some people. Anyway, since when are toys somehow not allowed in Debian?!? Brainfuck seems to have (for whatever reason) a lot of fans... -Miles -- = (^o^; (())) *This is the cute octopus virus, please copy it into your sig so it can spread. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
