Re: Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:45:37PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Daniele Cruciani wrote: About doc-central, I think that a person who is looking for docomuntation couldn't find nothing better than doc-central: if you add image animated icon (flash make want little space on disk but great amount of calculus resourse), it will result more friendly in some way but tedious in other way. I don't want anything animated on there, I'm looking for something that is simple and clean but looks a bit better then it does currently. The current html also has a problem with mozilla/galeon/etc.: search results get put in the wrong frame, and I have no idea why.. I've just seen the problem (never notice before ...) doc-central looks better than dhelp, and dhelp have icons. In my taste, what is central in documentation is the documentation itself and how is simple to access it, not how interface is fun (docs are fun). By that point of view doc-central is doc central :) I'll rewrite bits of doc-central to make it use templates from which the html is generated and some per-user configuration settings (actually that is already in there but not used currently), that should make it easier to customize things. I second the use of templates ... but at this time i can't figure what kind of templates (other than the existing) can be created. On other side a per-user setting should be usefull: one can require only html, or only info format .. and so. Wichert (thinking doc-central might be his most succesfull 1-day hack so far :) I've said good, no fantastic :P Daniele. -- Daniele Cruciani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Universita` di Pisa - Informatica - http://www.cli.di.unipi.it/~cruciani/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:07:54AM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Kyle Lynch wrote: Actually, all im trying to say is, how can I help make icons for projects or at least help maintain the website? Well, I wouldn't mind if you could help me improve the webpages that doc-central generates.. Hei!! doc-central is good! don't make it browsable only by IE !! :) ... i follow the flame, I think debian site is good enought for a page of an O.S. About doc-central, I think that a person who is looking for docomuntation couldn't find nothing better than doc-central: if you add image animated icon (flash make want little space on disk but great amount of calculus resourse), it will result more friendly in some way but tedious in other way. Personally, when I navigate on doc-central, I don't need icons, colours and so, I need to read documentation (I can imagine imagines :) -- Daniele Cruciani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Universita` di Pisa - Informatica - http://www.cli.di.unipi.it/~cruciani/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Previously Daniele Cruciani wrote: About doc-central, I think that a person who is looking for docomuntation couldn't find nothing better than doc-central: if you add image animated icon (flash make want little space on disk but great amount of calculus resourse), it will result more friendly in some way but tedious in other way. I don't want anything animated on there, I'm looking for something that is simple and clean but looks a bit better then it does currently. The current html also has a problem with mozilla/galeon/etc.: search results get put in the wrong frame, and I have no idea why.. I'll rewrite bits of doc-central to make it use templates from which the html is generated and some per-user configuration settings (actually that is already in there but not used currently), that should make it easier to customize things. Wichert (thinking doc-central might be his most succesfull 1-day hack so far :) -- _ / Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | pgpfcXZSDYXvo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Previously Kyle Lynch wrote: Actually, all im trying to say is, how can I help make icons for projects or at least help maintain the website? Well, I wouldn't mind if you could help me improve the webpages that doc-central generates.. Wichert. -- _ / Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D | pgphU35XjXVkG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Today, Marcelo E Magallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of them look DFSG-Free to me. Nonetheless, SMIL _is_ a nice tool to produce something multimedia-ish. Hopefully, somebody writes a DFSG-Free player in the near future -- but it won't be me, I don't need it (-: JFTR: http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/ It's GPLed. Hey, that's great! But, on a second glance, the thing ships with a GPLed KDE thingy. Rats! But it was well worth the try. Anyone want to poke it with a 10-foot-pole (speak: ITP it)? (-; Marcelo regards, -- Andreas Stefan Fuchs in Real Life aka [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] in NNTP and SMTP, antifuchsin IRCNet and Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest in ADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 10:58:14PM -0400, Ben Collins wrote: Anyway, I'm wondering, is there any need for a website redesign or any icon needs? I have Adobe Photoshop and I am a expert at it. I use Macromedia Dreamweaver and I would LOVE to help this great project. I would love to be on a website redesign team or Icon Creation Team. Does anyone know where I can go to help on this or who I should contact? Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) Agreed. There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone knows this: a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through some click here for cheezy text only site. Agreed. CSS seems to make graphical pages a little easier to make text friendly. b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics program around worth its salt?). Why? I think this is unnecessarily anal. Not that you would know if a graphic was done with gimp or photoshop anyway. c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than eye candy. When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I think most people feel the same way. Yes, that is essential. Making information available is the single most important thing the website is there for. Nice web pages are good for Debian's image, but if the information isn't there the fluff isn't worth it. That doesn't mean what the pages look like isn't important, it's just less important than what's on them. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 Delenn I wouldn't make it through 24 hours before I'd be firing up the grill and slapping a few friends on the barbie. spacemoos Why would you slap friends with barbies, thats kinda kinky -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 07:40:43PM -0700, Kyle Lynch wrote: Hello, I'm Kyle Lynch, ive worked with Debian for a little while, it beats all the other dists :) Anyway, I'm wondering, is there any need for a website redesign or any icon needs? I have Adobe Photoshop and I am a expert at it. I use Macromedia Dreamweaver and I would LOVE to help this great project. I would love to be on a website redesign team or Icon Creation Team. Does anyone know where I can go to help on this or who I should contact? Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone knows this: a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through some click here for cheezy text only site. b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics program around worth its salt?). c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than eye candy. When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I think most people feel the same way. Ben -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) It seems very strict to require that everything on the website have been created with free software. Of course, their contributions shouldn't require proprietary software to *use*. If someone wants to help, and is willing to put their contributions under a free license, why not let them? I do agree that Debian should not be advertising proprietary software on the web pages. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sat, Sep 02, 2000 at 11:53:41PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote: Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) It seems very strict to require that everything on the website have been created with free software. Of course, their contributions shouldn't require proprietary software to *use*. If debian isn't even good enough to make our own web pages, how is that going to look in the public eye? 'Yeah, our distribution kicks ass but our web pages require Windows2k and X proprietary software programs to produce' Get a grip Frank aka Myth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Ben Collins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the website, there will be hell to pay :) There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone knows this: i don't have the source to the bios my system uses to boot, and i bet none of us have the source for the bios on the build machines. on the other hand, i don't much care for flash on the debian site. does mozilla support SMILE? that's syncronized multimedia event language, a W3 consortium stanard that tries to do much of what flash is capable of. not that the debian site NEEDS flash, but that's another debate. -- Jacob Kuntz underworld.net/~jake [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Ben == Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be Ben created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Ben Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the Ben website, there will be hell to pay :) Conversly, if the output is pristine HTML, I see no reason to refuse it. Ben There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone Ben knows this: Ben a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through Bensome click here for cheezy text only site. Ben b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics Benprogram around worth its salt?). Ben c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than eye Bencandy. Ben When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I Ben think most people feel the same way. You can create lousy, unhelpful HTML with the freest of tools, Emacs. ANd you can create helpful content, WAP and cell phone accesible not graphical pure HTML pages with a proprietary editor. Lets not get overtly political and start refusing offers of help in good faith, shall we? God, this is a far cry from the early days of the FSF. manoj -- The Berlin Wall is the defining achievement of socialism. George Will Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 12:54:34AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: God, this is a far cry from the early days of the FSF. The world of computing is a different place than it was 15 years, and the FSF has played an ever-increasing role in changing it. -- G. Branden Robinson |I suspect Linus wrote that in a Debian GNU/Linux|complicated way only to be able to have [EMAIL PROTECTED] |that comment in there. http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Lars Wirzenius pgpUr1hdyDJ2r.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Branden == Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Branden On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 12:54:34AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: God, this is a far cry from the early days of the FSF. Branden The world of computing is a different place than it was 15 Branden years, and the FSF has played an ever-increasing role in Branden changing it. I can't say the proliferation of hubris is a turn for the better. manoj -- It's raisins that make Post Raisin Bran so raisiny ... Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 12:54:34AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Ben == Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be Ben created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Ben Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the Ben website, there will be hell to pay :) Conversly, if the output is pristine HTML, I see no reason to refuse it. Have you ever seen the header of a JPEG output from PhotoShop? It's full of advert/copyright for the program that created it. A tell tale sign you can get away from without some sort of strip program, which IMO is just cheating. Anyway, we shouldn't be using pure html for out webpages (which I think we don't). I'm pretty sure our webpages are generated from a higher level language. Ben -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Today, Jacob Kuntz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: does mozilla support SMILE? that's syncronized multimedia event language, a W3 consortium stanard that tries to do much of what flash is capable of. IIRC, only these programs officially support SMIL at the moment (http://www.w3c.org/AudioVideo/): Apple QuickTime 4.1 Compaq HPAS Helio Barbizon Microsoft Player Internet Explorer 5.5 Preview (supports selected modules of SMIL Boston draft) NIST S2M2 Player Oratrix Grins Productivity Works L p player RealNetworks Realplayer 7 None of them look DFSG-Free to me. Nonetheless, SMIL _is_ a nice tool to produce something multimedia-ish. Hopefully, somebody writes a DFSG-Free player in the near future -- but it won't be me, I don't need it (-: not that the debian site NEEDS flash, but that's another debate. ACK. regards, -- Andreas Stefan Fuchs in Real Life aka [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] in NNTP and SMTP, antifuchsin IRCNet and Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest in ADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Franklin Belew [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If debian isn't even good enough to make our own web pages, how is that going to look in the public eye? 'Yeah, our distribution kicks ass but our web pages require Windows2k and X proprietary software programs to produce' Get a grip Brace yourself for impact: our logo was not created using free software. Even more, software packaged by us wasn't even involved, AFAICR. Now that the logo exists, someone would probably be able to reproduce it using the Gimp or Octave or Perl or something like that. The person who actually created it didn't use any of that because he was more confortable using other tools in another environment. The question is not whether the final product, specifically graphics or templates, can be created using Debian, but whether the person *actually creating* it feels confortable enough with the tools provided. No tool is inherently wrong for a given task, and this specially true when you are talking about graphics production. I know a guy who used to sketch portraits on his computer. Using a CAD program. Cheers, Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Andreas Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of them look DFSG-Free to me. Nonetheless, SMIL _is_ a nice tool to produce something multimedia-ish. Hopefully, somebody writes a DFSG-Free player in the near future -- but it won't be me, I don't need it (-: JFTR: http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/ It's GPLed. Marcelo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Ben == Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben Have you ever seen the header of a JPEG output from PhotoShop? Ben It's full of advert/copyright for the program that created it. A Ben tell tale sign you can get away from without some sort of strip Ben program, which IMO is just cheating. Have you looked at the header files from, say, teh X window system? It is full of adverts/copyright of several proprietary companies. Indeed, various components of our distribution were initially created on proprietary hardware, running proprietary OS'es, and using proprietary tools. (Again, I offer the X wnidow system as an example). We still use the resultant code, since it met open standards, the copyright was not too onerous, and it is useful on a free platform. If the code is free to modify and share, and it meets the DFSG requirements, why do we care what was used in production? I'm sorry, but it sounds like a cross between misplaced zealotry and hubris to me, and I am sure we do not want to project that stereotype. Ben Anyway, we shouldn't be using pure html for out webpages (which Ben I think we don't). I'm pretty sure our webpages are generated Ben from a higher level language. This is the correct objection, this is technical, and unless dreamweaver can deal with WML, we can't use dreamweaver in developing our web pages. (incidentally, you can too create a page using dreamweaver, and massage it manually into our framework, and that is often how I create WML objects initially). manoj -- Perhaps they will have to outlaw sending random lists of words. fee fie foe foo [sic] Larry Wall in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
Actually, all im trying to say is, how can I help make icons for projects or at least help maintain the website? X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: emacs 20.7.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-7 I) Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Time: Sun Sep 3 00:54:34 2000 Mail-Copies-To: never To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me? From: Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-URL: http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ Organization: The Debian Project Date: 03 Sep 2000 00:54:34 -0500 Lines: 38 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 Resent-From: debian-devel@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: debian-devel@lists.debian.org archive/latest/67471 X-Loop: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben == Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben Well, IMO, anything that goes on the Debian website better be Ben created by free software. No offense, but if I start seeing Ben Made with Macromedia or Designed with Photoshop on the Ben website, there will be hell to pay :) Conversly, if the output is pristine HTML, I see no reason to refuse it. Ben There are several criteria for the website, unspoken, but surely everyone Ben knows this: Ben a) It needs to be browsable by text-only browsers without going through Ben some click here for cheezy text only site. Ben b) Graphics need to be created in Gimp (is there any other free graphics Ben program around worth its salt?). Ben c) Geared towards informational and structural concerns rather than eye Ben candy. Ben When I go to the Debian webpage, I want answers and information, and I Ben think most people feel the same way. You can create lousy, unhelpful HTML with the freest of tools, Emacs. ANd you can create helpful content, WAP and cell phone accesible not graphical pure HTML pages with a proprietary editor. Lets not get overtly political and start refusing offers of help in good faith, shall we? God, this is a far cry from the early days of the FSF. manoj -- The Berlin Wall is the defining achievement of socialism. George Will Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---[ Kyle Lynch ]--- Debian Helper Extrodinare [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Re: Help on Debian Project - Need Me?
On Sun, 03 Sep 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, all im trying to say is, how can I help make icons for projects or at least help maintain the website? Probably you should discuss about that on debian-www list. Also you can check bug reports for pseudo package ``www.debian.org'' on making website better. Also anonymous cvs access to website is available from cvs.debian.org. -- Tommi Vainikainen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
