Re: Use clisp shiped with source or from Debian?
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 09:06:27PM +, Joerg Sommer wrote: Hi, I would like to pack Xindy an index processing system like makeindex. Xindy's source comes with clisp 2.33.2 and it is compiled at build time. I've got it managed to build with the clisp package from Debian. But I have little problem and saw the Debian package depends on X11. Upstream do not support other versions than this one shipped with the source and depending on the clisp package would make more packages need to be installed to use Xindy -- a simple text processor needs X11. For those not familiar with xindy, IIRC the reason why xindy upstream included a clisp copy is that xindy needed a specific external module that was not available with stock clisp, so a specific clisp including that module was needed. If you have succeeded on making xindy build and work with stock clisp, I would not worry about current xindy tarball status. I think Joachim Schrod will be very happy to hear from your changes, and if they are of general interest can be included upstream, hopefully avoiding all that clisp sources. Last time I read from him he was very busy with real life, but you can mail the xindy list for wider testing. On the other hand I can decrease the compile time heavily, make the package architecture independent and smaller. And I see the problem that I have to track the development of clisp and maybe backport (security) bugs if I use the clisp version from the tarball. What do you think? Is it better to use the clisp version shipped with the source tarball or use the Debian package? IMHO use Debian clisp. As others have pointed put, depending of 2MB X11 stuff is not that big a problem, remarkably if you have severely decreased xindy size. I use xindy and in my system, with xindy built the very old way (from binaries) I have $ ls /usr/lib/xindy/xindy.* -la -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1394808 2003-11-13 17:09 /usr/lib/xindy/xindy.mem -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 713616 2003-11-13 17:09 /usr/lib/xindy/xindy.run That already makes 2MB, so depending on the size decrease you get, the final extra space required when using X11 stuff can be smaller than those 2MB. -- Agustin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Use clisp shiped with source or from Debian?
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 21:06 +, Joerg Sommer wrote: Hi, I would like to pack Xindy an index processing system like makeindex. Xindy's source comes with clisp 2.33.2 and it is compiled at build time. I've got it managed to build with the clisp package from Debian. But I have little problem and saw the Debian package depends on X11. Upstream do not support other versions than this one shipped with the source and depending on the clisp package would make more packages need to be installed to use Xindy -- a simple text processor needs X11. On the other hand I can decrease the compile time heavily, make the package architecture independent and smaller. And I see the problem that I have to track the development of clisp and maybe backport (security) bugs if I use the clisp version from the tarball. What do you think? Is it better to use the clisp version shipped with the source tarball or use the Debian package? I think it is much better to use the Debian package. The security team will thank you, as will current and future porters. As an occasional porter for GNU/kFreeBSD, I can say that the biggest problem I've encountered is the plethora of versions of libgc (the boehm garbage collector), almost all of which have been slightly hacked to support some feature or another. Not only does this make more work for me and other porters, should there ever be a security bug in libgc, my mail server will probably die under the load of all the DSAs sent. Additionally, rebuilding software bloats the archive and prevents fixes that may be Debian-specific (think FHS) from being uniformly applied. It also increases build times on older architectures (think m68k). And, from a purely selfish point of view, you want the Debian clisp maintainer and clisp upstream to do the work of making clisp work in Debian, not you. You will be able to give your package more attention if you work on fixing the Xindy bugs, and not the clisp bugs. It's better for both you and the users. And if you needed any more arguments: Debian is not Windows. DLL Hell is explicitly unsupported on Debian. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Use clisp shiped with source or from Debian?
Brian M. Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to pack Xindy an index processing system like makeindex. Xindy's source comes with clisp 2.33.2 and it is compiled at build time. I've got it managed to build with the clisp package from Debian. But I have little problem and saw the Debian package depends on X11. [...] And if you needed any more arguments: Debian is not Windows. DLL Hell is explicitly unsupported on Debian. One more argument: In most cases where xindy is used, a DVI or PDF viewer will be installed, too. The cases of a compute server that provides (pdf)TeX plus tools, including xindy, but does not allow to view the documents while you're logged in (via ssh or what) should be extremely rare. And if you've got a viewer, you've got X11, anyway. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: Use clisp shiped with source or from Debian?
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Joerg Sommer wrote: I've got it managed to build with the clisp package from Debian. But I have little problem and saw the Debian package depends on X11. Upstream do not support other versions than this one shipped with the source and depending on the clisp package would make more packages need to be installed to use Xindy -- a simple text processor needs X11. It needs libx11, which isn't the same thing as needing the X Server. If this really is a serious deal, you should talk to the clisp maintainer about making a version that doesn't link against libx11... but odds are most installs will have those packages anyway. What do you think? Is it better to use the clisp version shipped with the source tarball or use the Debian package? Use the Debian package. Otherwise you're making more work for the all of the security teams, as well as losing the benifits of any Debian specific patches that are put into the clisp package. [I'd also urge having upstream not distribute clisp themselves, or if they must, distribute it alongside instead of in the tarball.] It also may be the case that you only need common-lisp-controller, not clisp itself, unless the code in question will only work with clisp, not any of the other common lisp implementations. [Someone else who is more familiar with lisp will have to answer this aspect, though.] Don Armstrong -- A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight for democracy, but won't cross the street to vote in a national election. -- Bill Vaughan http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Use clisp shiped with source or from Debian?
Scripsit Joerg Sommer [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got it managed to build with the clisp package from Debian. But I have little problem and saw the Debian package depends on X11. Upstream do not support other versions than this one shipped with the source and depending on the clisp package would make more packages need to be installed to use Xindy -- a simple text processor needs X11. It depends on only a few X11 client libraries with a total installed size of less than 2 megabytes. Including your own clisp will almost certainly lead to a larger waste of space than this. Debian policy (§11.8.1) explicitly requires that packages that _can_ be configured to use X _must_ be. The rationale is that the overhead of having some unused X client libraries on a system is too small to offset the adminstrative hell it would be to maintain versions with and versions without X in parallel. This reasoning also holds if the version without is internal to third package. -- Henning Makholm Det er du nok fandens ene om at mene. For det ligger i Australien! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
