Re: VMware packaging
Hi, On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 01:36:35PM +0300, Linas ??virblis wrote: Oh come one guys. So instead of providing QEMU + QEMU Acclerator, a partially free solution, we just go for totally non-free one? VMware was not an option when there actually was no alternative to it, so why is it an option now? I know that QEMU Accelerator is not distributable, [...] There's a free replacement, see http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/qvm86/. It's probably in an early stage of development, but it's there. See also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=322344. HTH, Uwe. -- Uwe Hermann http://www.hermann-uwe.de http://www.it-services-uh.de | http://www.crazy-hacks.org http://www.holsham-traders.de | http://www.unmaintained-free-software.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: VMware packaging
* Uwe Hermann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hi, On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 01:36:35PM +0300, Linas ??virblis wrote: Oh come one guys. So instead of providing QEMU + QEMU Acclerator, a partially free solution, we just go for totally non-free one? VMware was not an option when there actually was no alternative to it, so why is it an option now? I know that QEMU Accelerator is not distributable, [...] There's a free replacement, see http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/qvm86/. It's probably in an early stage of development, but it's there. Looking at the CVS it hasn't been touched in a year, with a bug open saying it doesn't work with qemu 0.8.0. See also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=322344. -- Eric Dorland [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1024D/16D970C6 097C 4861 9934 27A0 8E1C 2B0A 61E9 8ECF 16D9 70C6 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: VMware packaging
posted mailed Marc Haber wrote: On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:03:31 +0200, Bernd Schubert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ubuntu already has vmware kernel module packages Yes, but adapting them to Debian seems to be nontrivial. I have not yet been able to get them build on Debian. Actually I didn't have much problems using the Ubuntu directory, though I have to admit that it was overly complex. You may find a cleaned up version here: http://www.pci.uni-heidelberg.de/tc/usr/bernd/downloads/vmware-modules/ Just tell me, if there's a problem with it. Cheers, Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Marc Haber wrote: On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 01:06:59 +0100, Peter Collingbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). I have been (rather half-heartedly) trying to do this in the last few weeks, but have not been very successful due to lack of time, and lack of knowledge about module-assistant and the Debian kernel packages. Add in vmware's rather twisted way of building the modules (made less evil by vmware-any-any), and I have to go a long way until I fully understand the implications of what I'm doing. Would you be willing to cooperate, or is my knowledge too low to be useful for you? Ubuntu already has vmware kernel module packages, I have a slightly bugfixed version of the debian/ directory. The package name is a bit strange, but my 2 minute attempt to modify it failed, need to look into it again. If someone is interested, just mail me. Cheers, Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:03:31 +0200, Bernd Schubert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ubuntu already has vmware kernel module packages Yes, but adapting them to Debian seems to be nontrivial. I have not yet been able to get them build on Debian. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, [UTF-8] Linas Žvirblis wrote: maybe not with a so nice UI than vmware, but that is definitely writeable IMHO. That is being worked on as I type this. OT, but does anybody know whether I can operate on VMs in VMware without this fancy UI? I just want to turn on two VMs on a host that has VMware server installed from command line. Sorry for OT posting - answering in private seems to be reasonable Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de
Re: VMware packaging
At 1155469573 past the epoch, martin f krafft wrote: Why don't those that want to work with QEMU do that, and those who want to work with VMware worry about its packaging? I can't believe we're having this discussion anyway. It would make sense for each team to keep an eye on what each other are doing, as some common packaging functionality might be possible. -- Jon Dowland http://alcopop.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 01:59:57AM +0100, Peter Collingbourne wrote: On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 02:25:59AM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? To provide choice to the user perhaps? I myself use qemu but some may need features such as suspend/resume. Ctrl-Alt-2 stop savevm filename quit there, suspended. To restart: qemu -S Ctrl-Alt-2 loadvm filename c There, done. -- Fun will now commence -- Seven Of Nine, Ashes to Ashes, stardate 53679.4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
On Sunday 13 August 2006 09:18, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful Lvm snapshots work just fine. You've obviously never run VMware if you think that an LVM snapshot is a replacement for a VMWare snapshot. It leaves me suspicious that the rest of your post is equally full of misinformation. -- Dave Carrigan Seattle, WA, USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.rudedog.org/ UNIX-Apache-Perl-Linux-Firewalls-LDAP-C-C++-DNS-PalmOS-PostgreSQL-MySQL-Postfix pgpzfFd168ucW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 01:06:59 +0100, Peter Collingbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). I have been (rather half-heartedly) trying to do this in the last few weeks, but have not been very successful due to lack of time, and lack of knowledge about module-assistant and the Debian kernel packages. Add in vmware's rather twisted way of building the modules (made less evil by vmware-any-any), and I have to go a long way until I fully understand the implications of what I'm doing. Would you be willing to cooperate, or is my knowledge too low to be useful for you? Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: VMware packaging
also sprach Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.13.0125 +0100]: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? Sorry, these are not alternatives to vmware, at least IMHO. I know they are free and vmware is not, but there is actually a reason i still use vmware and not the others. Your answer is completely tangential to the original question. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system now I lay me back to sleep. the speaker's dull; the subject's deep. if he should stop before I wake, give me a nudge for goodness' sake. signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: VMware packaging
also sprach Peter Collingbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.13.0106 +0100]: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). Great idea. I'll be happy to test when you're done with them. :) -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system . `___ (o-(o-(o-(o- (o-(o-(o- /\/| | | //\//\//\//\ //\//\//\ ` /\/\/l-+-| v_/_ v_/_ v_/_ v_/_ v_/_ v_/_ v_/_.` /\/\/|_|_| signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, Aug 13, 2006, Peter Collingbourne wrote: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). Would be nice if we could go as far as shipping binary packages for e.g. vmware-player, as Ubuntu does: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=vmwaresearchon=sourcenamessubword=1version=allrelease=all (But I didn't check whether this qualifies for non-free.) -- Loïc Minier [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Loïc Minier wrote: Would be nice if we could go as far as shipping binary packages for e.g. vmware-player, as Ubuntu does: Oh come one guys. So instead of providing QEMU + QEMU Acclerator, a partially free solution, we just go for totally non-free one? VMware was not an option when there actually was no alternative to it, so why is it an option now? I know that QEMU Accelerator is not distributable, but providing a sort of an installer (or even asking an author for a permission to distribute) should not be any harder than providing an installer for VMware. Both need to compile kernel-specific stuff, as far as I remember. Moreover, VMware is not that all-round superior solution, as some may think: it cannot run without invading your kernel, requires to install stuff in guess OS to support some features that QEMU supports transparently (usb tablet, for example), etc. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Alle Sunday 13 August 2006 04:06, Goswin von Brederlow ha scritto: What you mean is vserver and even more so xen. I hear with the latest versions you can even run windows in xen. You can do that only if your CPU is enabled with VT/Pacifica virtualization technology. Regards, Francesco -- :wq -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
also sprach Linas Žvirblis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.13.1236 +0200]: I know that QEMU Accelerator is not distributable, but providing a sort of an installer (or even asking an author for a permission to distribute) should not be any harder than providing an installer for VMware. Both need to compile kernel-specific stuff, as far as I remember. Why don't those that want to work with QEMU do that, and those who want to work with VMware worry about its packaging? I can't believe we're having this discussion anyway. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system time flies like an arrow. fruit flies like a banana. -- groucho marx signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: VMware packaging
On Sunday 13 August 2006 02:25, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? vmware * is quite fast * does suspend/resume quite beautifully * the integration with the guest OS via the vmware tools is quite nice * as are shared folders if you're using a Windows guest * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful Do qemu and/or bochs provide all of those? I use those features regularly and would welcome such packages. Of course, I'd welcome a Free alternative to vmware even more, but it's just not there atm. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpLe6d8lBX4t.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
Adrian von Bidder wrote: vmware QEMU: * is quite fast Quite fast with the accelerator module. There is also full virtualization mode, that can be used with certain operating systems. * does suspend/resume quite beautifully It can save memory state and load it later on startup. * the integration with the guest OS via the vmware tools is quite nice Does not require any external tools to operate properly. * as are shared folders if you're using a Windows guest Provides many ways of file sharing between the host and the guest, SMB access being one of them. * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful These are called overlay images in QEMU. The base image can also be compressed. Do qemu and/or bochs provide all of those? QEMU - yes, Bochs - no. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Le dim 13 août 2006 15:24, Adrian von Bidder a écrit : On Sunday 13 August 2006 02:25, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? vmware * is quite fast * does suspend/resume quite beautifully * the integration with the guest OS via the vmware tools is quite nice * as are shared folders if you're using a Windows guest * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful Do qemu and/or bochs provide all of those? I use those features regularly and would welcome such packages. Of course, I'd welcome a Free alternative to vmware even more, but it's just not there atm. qemu + the accelerator can do all of that, maybe not with a so nice UI than vmware, but that is definitely writeable IMHO. -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpyCgBGo3rdX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
Pierre Habouzit wrote: maybe not with a so nice UI than vmware, but that is definitely writeable IMHO. That is being worked on as I type this. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Peter Collingbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). How will its output differ from alien --to-deb --scripts based on the VMware .rpm? -- Ben Pfaff email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://benpfaff.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
Hi, vmware QEMU: I really don't get this (type of) discussion... Some people prefer qemu, some others vmware, still others prefer foo. There is vim available from Debian repositories as well as emacs. You can install KDE as well as Gnome, fvwm, ... why not provide qemu as well as bochs as well as vmware (if the licence permits it). Just because vmware is non-free? That does not make sense imho. Just my 2 cents... Cheers, Sebastian -- Sebastian tokkee Harl GnuPG-ID: 0x8501C7FC http://tokkee.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: VMware packaging
also sprach Sebastian Harl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.13.1658 +0100]: There is vim available from Debian repositories as well as emacs. Yes, but emacs will be removed. (this is a reply-to experiment) -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system there are more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- hamlet signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: VMware packaging
Adrian von Bidder [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sunday 13 August 2006 02:25, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? vmware * is quite fast xen too. * does suspend/resume quite beautifully xen can even migrate a running system from host A to B with only 30ms downtime (and some sluggish time while it copies the rest). * the integration with the guest OS via the vmware tools is quite nice Never needed that for xen. But I don't run windows. * as are shared folders if you're using a Windows guest nfs, samba, nbd, gfs, ... all the fun of linux. * using snapshots and clones based off them are quite useful Lvm snapshots work just fine. Do qemu and/or bochs provide all of those? I use those features regularly and would welcome such packages. Of course, I'd welcome a Free alternative to vmware even more, but it's just not there atm. If you aren't running windows then xen is your free alternative. If you need windows then you need a recent cpu for xen+windows. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VMware packaging
On Aug 13, Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you aren't running windows then xen is your free alternative. If you need windows then you need a recent cpu for xen+windows. I always love when somebody knows what I need... -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
VMware packaging
Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). Thanks, -- Peter pgpsXMcZQ1IO6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? -- ·O· Pierre Habouzit ··O[EMAIL PROTECTED] OOOhttp://www.madism.org pgpg60wOF3UkG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 02:25:59AM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? To provide choice to the user perhaps? I myself use qemu but some may need features such as suspend/resume. Also, qemu is a bit slow without the non-free accelerator module. Thanks, -- Peter pgphQkAhtkacm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VMware packaging
Alle Sunday 13 August 2006 02:25, Pierre Habouzit ha scritto: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? For example because qemu isn't ready for large production environment like the ones that are the target of VmWare Enterprise or similar... -- :wq
Re: VMware packaging
On Sun, Aug 13, 2006 at 02:25:59AM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? Because the performance of qemu is quite bad without the non-free accelerator module and bochs is generally very slow and targeted at hobbyists. I'm not trying to say anything bad about them, just that their target markets are generally different than the target market of VMWare. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: VMware packaging
Pierre Habouzit [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le dim 13 août 2006 02:06, Peter Collingbourne a écrit : Dear all, I found there were no VMware-related packages in the official repository, nor any way of creating them. Thus I propose to create a tool that will build (for example for VMware Server) vmware-server and vmware-modules-source packages based on an installation tarball (a la java-package). why would we need it when there is already quite plenty of good free alternatives (qemu, bochs e.g.) ? Qemu and especialy bochs are not alternatives for vmware. They are more emulators than VMs. What you mean is vserver and even more so xen. I hear with the latest versions you can even run windows in xen. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
