Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Riley Baird]

On Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:54:07 -0500
Tony Rutkowski  wrote:

> That should read, of course, defendants.
> 
> On 2016-03-09 10:53 AM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
> > So in a cause of action against Debian for
> > infringement, who are the plaintiffs?
> 

Depends. But we're concerned about people who redistribute Debian and
its derivatives as well.

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Tony Rutkowski]

That should read, of course, defendants.

On 2016-03-09 10:53 AM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:

So in a cause of action against Debian for
infringement, who are the plaintiffs?

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Tony Rutkowski]

So in a cause of action against Debian for
infringement, who are the plaintiffs?
The website describes it as an association
of individuals, but is rather evasive about
the actors other than the "author's" listed
on the site.  The debian.org site is hosted
in the U.S., so that provides convenient
jurisdiction.  :-)

Has the association been part of a case
in controversy before?

--tony


On 2016-03-09 10:38 AM, Ulrich Mueller wrote:

On Wed, 9 Mar 2016, Tony Rutkowski wrote:

Doesn't this entail getting agreement among all
the Linux distributors as well, not just Debian?

No, this is something to be fixed upstream, and then it will of course
apply to all downstreams. *If* it is really a problem, which I doubt.


On 2016-03-09 4:42 AM, Graham Knop wrote:

Based on my reading, the libfcgi-perl debian package has a licensing
issue.  The base package includes a file LICENSE.TERMS, which shows a
license roughly equivalent to the MIT license.  It does however
include the following phrase:

The following terms apply to all files associated with the Software
and Documentation
unless explicitly disclaimed in individual files.

So all files included in the tarball can be distributed under the
terms of the LICENSE.TERMS file, unless "explicitly disclaimed".


There are three files, fcgios.h, os_unix.c, and os_win32.c, which
include a header that conflicts with the base MIT-style terms.  They
include the following:

*  Copyright (c) 1995 Open Market, Inc.
*  All rights reserved.
*
*  This file contains proprietary and confidential information and
*  remains the unpublished property of Open Market, Inc. Use,
*  disclosure, or reproduction is prohibited except as permitted by
*  express written license agreement with Open Market, Inc.
*
*  Bill Snapper
*  snap...@openmarket.com
This would appear to me to be "explicitly disclaimed" as not following
the LICENSE.TERMS license.  And also certainly not following the DFSG.

I disagree. Certainly, it is not the cleanest situation, but while the
header may imply that LICENSE.TERMS doesn't apply to the file, it
certainly doesn't explicitly say that.

EXPLICIT
1 a :  fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication,
or ambiguity :  leaving no question as to meaning or intent
(Merriam-Webster)

On the contrary, the header says "all rights reserved" (which is the
default under copyright law) and then it says in the second paragraph
that the file can be distributed if permitted by license. I would
conclude that LICENSE.TERMS just constitutes such a license.

IANAL,
Ulrich

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Ulrich Mueller]

> On Wed, 9 Mar 2016, Tony Rutkowski wrote:

> Doesn't this entail getting agreement among all
> the Linux distributors as well, not just Debian?

No, this is something to be fixed upstream, and then it will of course
apply to all downstreams. *If* it is really a problem, which I doubt.

> On 2016-03-09 4:42 AM, Graham Knop wrote:
>> Based on my reading, the libfcgi-perl debian package has a licensing
>> issue.  The base package includes a file LICENSE.TERMS, which shows a
>> license roughly equivalent to the MIT license.  It does however
>> include the following phrase:
>> 
>> The following terms apply to all files associated with the Software
>> and Documentation
>> unless explicitly disclaimed in individual files.

So all files included in the tarball can be distributed under the
terms of the LICENSE.TERMS file, unless "explicitly disclaimed".

>> There are three files, fcgios.h, os_unix.c, and os_win32.c, which
>> include a header that conflicts with the base MIT-style terms.  They
>> include the following:
>> 
>> *  Copyright (c) 1995 Open Market, Inc.
>> *  All rights reserved.
>> *
>> *  This file contains proprietary and confidential information and
>> *  remains the unpublished property of Open Market, Inc. Use,
>> *  disclosure, or reproduction is prohibited except as permitted by
>> *  express written license agreement with Open Market, Inc.
>> *
>> *  Bill Snapper
>> *  snap...@openmarket.com

>> This would appear to me to be "explicitly disclaimed" as not following
>> the LICENSE.TERMS license.  And also certainly not following the DFSG.

I disagree. Certainly, it is not the cleanest situation, but while the
header may imply that LICENSE.TERMS doesn't apply to the file, it
certainly doesn't explicitly say that.

   EXPLICIT 
   1 a :  fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication,
   or ambiguity :  leaving no question as to meaning or intent
   (Merriam-Webster)

On the contrary, the header says "all rights reserved" (which is the
default under copyright law) and then it says in the second paragraph
that the file can be distributed if permitted by license. I would
conclude that LICENSE.TERMS just constitutes such a license.

IANAL,
Ulrich

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Paul Wise]

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:

> Doesn't this entail getting agreement among all
> the Linux distributors as well, not just Debian?

Linux distributors hold no copyright in libfcgi-perl, only Open
Market, Inc. does, so they are the ones who need to agree, not Debian
or any Linux distribution.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Tony Rutkowski]

Doesn't this entail getting agreement among all
the Linux distributors as well, not just Debian?
--t


On 2016-03-09 4:42 AM, Graham Knop wrote:

Based on my reading, the libfcgi-perl debian package has a licensing
issue.  The base package includes a file LICENSE.TERMS, which shows a
license roughly equivalent to the MIT license.  It does however
include the following phrase:

The following terms apply to all files associated with the Software
and Documentation
unless explicitly disclaimed in individual files.

There are three files, fcgios.h, os_unix.c, and os_win32.c, which
include a header that conflicts with the base MIT-style terms.  They
include the following:

  *  Copyright (c) 1995 Open Market, Inc.
  *  All rights reserved.
  *
  *  This file contains proprietary and confidential information and
  *  remains the unpublished property of Open Market, Inc. Use,
  *  disclosure, or reproduction is prohibited except as permitted by
  *  express written license agreement with Open Market, Inc.
  *
  *  Bill Snapper
  *  snap...@openmarket.com

This would appear to me to be "explicitly disclaimed" as not following
the LICENSE.TERMS license.  And also certainly not following the DFSG.

While I believe this conflict was an error in the initial release of
this code (nearly 20 years ago), I also don't see how this could be
resolved without an explicit relicensing by Open Market.  This may
also impact other fcgi packages in Debian.

Re: libfcgi-perl copyright issue

[Paul Wise]

On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Graham Knop wrote:

> This would appear to me to be "explicitly disclaimed" as not following
> the LICENSE.TERMS license.  And also certainly not following the DFSG.
>
> While I believe this conflict was an error in the initial release of
> this code (nearly 20 years ago), I also don't see how this could be
> resolved without an explicit relicensing by Open Market.  This may
> also impact other fcgi packages in Debian.

Agreed. Please file a release-critical bug report and try to contact
Bill Snapper, CCing the bug report when you do. Open Market still
exist so their support contacts might be an alternative option if Bill
is no longer working there.

http://www.openmarket.com/contact-us/

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise