Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 1:53 AM Stefano Rivera wrote: > > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 > > > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > > with receipts. > > That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any > visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but > require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). > > In the case of Indian visas this year, it took the local team a few > weeks of effort to find a better solution than travel to Istanbul for > the Indian attendees. I think we want the pressure to be on for visa > team to try to make something like that happen. > > I'd also suggest that the bursaries team publish a clearer list of what > is and isn't acceptable for travel reimbursement (e.g. taxis, travel > hotels). > I think Debian should help cover VISA expenses and I support Stefano's suggestions. Perhaps we can cover direct VISA fees by default and handle other costs (i.e. travel, express delivery, etc) on a case by case basis. VISA fees are usually already a significant part of costs and having it covered could help a lot, like Schengen VISA usually costs 80 EUR and US VISA costs 160 USD. Regards, Aron
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On തി, ജൂൺ 27 2022 at 05:34:48 വൈകു +02:00:00 +02:00:00, Jonathan Carter wrote: Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I think that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default for DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events. +1 Thanks for this proposal. I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our diversity. I think that is a benefit of diversity rather than bias. Having people in influencial position with diverse backgrounds makes it easy to understand others needs and requirements. I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. -Jonathan
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 27/06/22 at 17:43 +, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 +1 > > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > > with receipts. > > That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any > visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but > require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). Yes. But I don't think that we should have a maximum fee, since the travel to the nearest embassy/consulate might be expensive in itself, but rather include this in the total cost in consideration for travel reimbursement. Lucas
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi, Em 27/06/2022 12:34, Jonathan Carter escreveu: Hi Debianites I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. I belive Debian should help with visa costs. And I would like to suggest Debian (or TOs) contracts a travel agency to help those people can't pay for international tickets in advance, and wait until after DebConf to get the reimbursement. I know always there is the possibility someone ask for fly tickets, get it from the travel agency and for some reason have to gave up to travel. But for those, I belive an agency spending more than 60k in flight tickets will have more power to negotiate the reimbursement (or re-schedule) from flight companies than each of us. It's not easy to everybody spend more than USD 1k or 2k to join a DebConf and wait months to get the reimbursement. Best regards, -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Belo Horizonte - Brasil Debian Developer Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres Site: http://phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi! Em 27/06/2022 12:34, Jonathan Carter escreveu: Hi Debianites For DebConf, the bursary policy has varied year-on-year when it comes to visas. For some events, visas were completely covered, while for others, visas weren't to give more people a chance to attend (where the budget was more limited). IMHO, visa expenses should be covered by travel bursaries to DC or other Debian events. I should say that Debian, should have a policy to cover in advanced travel expenses(all or most all amount) for people that has less financial condition. As it's in item 2 for our Code of conduct[1], **Assume good faith**, so we should have good faith in people, if this people don't show up to Debian Event(DC, Sprints, Debian Reunion, MiniDC) they should return to Debian founds the amount. [1] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Best Regards -- Daniel Lenharo Curitiba - Brazil www.sombra.eti.br 31D8 0509 460E FB31 DF4B 9629 FB0E 132D DB0A A5B1 OpenPGP_0xFB0E132DDB0AA5B1.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 2022-06-27 13 h 43, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) >> I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 > >> Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default >> of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost >> insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required >> to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of >> course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed >> with receipts. +1 Thanks for thinking about these issues and making attendance to DebConf easier :) -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. +1 > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > with receipts. That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). In the case of Indian visas this year, it took the local team a few weeks of effort to find a better solution than travel to Istanbul for the Indian attendees. I think we want the pressure to be on for visa team to try to make something like that happen. I'd also suggest that the bursaries team publish a clearer list of what is and isn't acceptable for travel reimbursement (e.g. taxis, travel hotels). SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ +1 415 683 3272
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Am 27.06.22 um 17:34 schrieb Jonathan Carter: I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. We had cases in the past that go (far) beyond just the official Visa fees though. E.g. a person wanted to fly LA <-> NY to pick up a Visa sticker. They asked for the flights plus a hotel night in NY. The team - at the time - recommended to use FedEx instead. Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed with receipts. * Visa fees are often reciprocal between countries. They are a political means much more than an administrative.
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 27.06.22 17:34, Jonathan Carter wrote: This had mixed results, for one, people who had their visa's covered in the past may have been surprised to learn that this time round they suddenly had to pay $100-200 that they thought would have been covered. Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I think that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default for DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events. A conference is about rendering us all mostly equal - some location, same food, same discussions. Diversity would also include those who cannot travel, or who cannot travel alone. I am fine with paying all travel-associated costs, but not because of diversity, please. Just call if "fairness" or "equal opportunity" or whatever. I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our diversity. You mean global coverage. I agree that it would help the project to have direct contacts to many regions in the world. Best, Steffen
Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi Debianites There are likely a few different lists that this mail could be applicable: bursaries@debconf.o, debconf@ debconf-team@, etc. I chose this list to minimize cross-posting and since this could affect policies for all our events (not just DebConf) and it's easy to point people here. On that note, please don't cross-post. For DebConf, the bursary policy has varied year-on-year when it comes to visas. For some events, visas were completely covered, while for others, visas weren't to give more people a chance to attend (where the budget was more limited). This had mixed results, for one, people who had their visa's covered in the past may have been surprised to learn that this time round they suddenly had to pay $100-200 that they thought would have been covered. Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I think that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default for DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events. I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our diversity. I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. -Jonathan OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
