Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
They could have not followed anything past the guy that caused it. Now they can. With all due respect, I think you have it backwards. Now, the corporation protects not just those beyond the guy that caused the problem. It even protects that particular guy. you are correct. However, were an individual programmer to incure liability (the only way I can think of off hand is by deliberately caused harm, such as sneaking in a disk eraser), the corporation won't protect that individual. It will, howver, protect the other developers, who could potentially face liability, or at least incur staggering defense costs. Generally, short of intentionally caused harm, I can't think of anything offhand that would lead to actual liability for unincorporated developers. However, the legal costs of being right aren't small. Given the incorporation, a suit against individual developers would probably be bounced, with sanctions fees, quickly. Without, they might have to defend on the merits. rick, esq. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
[problem][tetex][locate]
I installed tetex-{base,bin,extra} today. Running latex produces:
I can't find the default format file!
having searched for an hour through tetex documentation (and been very
confused by the concept of kpathsea), I find that this is either
texmf.cnf or latex.fmt (I can't figure out which). So:
1) locate texmf.cnf shows it in /etc/texmf/, but there are no files in
this directory according to ls.
2) latex.fmt is in /usr/lib/texmf/web2c, but running kpathsea doesn't
find it. I might not be running it right, because I'm not really sure
what I'm doing.
Can someone help me get tetex configured?
Thanks in advance.
Will
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Re: A little consideration, please?
bruce wrote, 2. Please don't start with the assumption that I am a corporate robber baron whenever you argue about Debian policy. 2a) If you do make this assumption, please send him enough money to act like one. Say, Stanford's endowment . . . :) rick -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Building Your own Boot Disks
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Timm Gleason wrote: We build many, many Linux boxes (on order of 15 to 20 a month). We just received some new disk sets for Debian 1.3.1. We have been using 1.2 and kernel 2.0.30. The new disk set comes with the disk images having 2.0.29. Now not wanting to go backward, especially due to the major modifications done to the kernel we are using, I cannot build a boot disk and drivers disk that will do a good install. up until a month or two ago, i was building about 5 debian boxes per month. I just used the boot disks to do the basic install, and then used dpkg to install my custom compiled kernel (made using kernel-package's make-kpkg command). the procedure went something like this: 1. boot install floppy. install base system, reboot, run dselect, etc. 2. ftp kernel-image-XXX_XXX.deb from another machine on my network. 3. if kernel image is same version as on the install boot/rescue disk then rm -rf /lib/modules/X.X.X 4. dpkg -i kernel-image-XXX_XXX.deb if my custom kernel is a different version to the one on the boot floppy (usually is), then i do the following as well: 5. make a /vmlinuz.old symlink pointing to the old kernel. 6. edit lilo.conf. 7. run lilo -t lilo. do this and you shouldn't need to mess about with making your own boot/rescue and drivers disks. imo, everyone should compile their own kernel - the boot/rescue floppy is good to install a system with, but a linux box really should have a kernel compiled especially for itwith only the drivers that it needs compiled in (or as modules), no more and no less. The kernel, drivers and base all install fine, however, I cannot specify which modules I wish to use. The installation of them fails. I receive an error message as follows: modprobe: error reading ELF header: no such file or directory your modules.tgz may have the old (and now incompatible) *_MODULES text files in the /lib/modules/X.X.X directory. try: find /lib/modules -name *_MODULES if they are there, then delete them by typing: find /lib/modules -name *_MODULES | xargs rm if this solves the problem, then create a new modules.tgz based on this. craig -- craig sanders networking consultant Available for casual or contract temporary autonomous zone system administration tasks. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Building Your own Boot Disks
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timm Gleason) Now not wanting to go backward, especially due to the major modifications done to the kernel we are using Is that the BESS Internet filter? I hope your product still lets you read the list, after the language we've been using on debian-user today :-) 15-20 a month and Debian in every one? Cool! If you're developing big changes to the kernel, please try to contribute them back into the main kernel source thread. like to know if there is any definitive source of information on building installation disks. The new system that loads base off of a CD is great, but with the modified drivers and kernel, I need to know more about these disks. Sure. You will need two packages: kernel-package and boot-floppies. Kernel-package provides the scripts to build a Debian package from your custom kernel and calling them from the command line is trivial. Boot-floppies provides the scripts to build the boot floppies, and you can easily modify that or just change the packages it installs. You will also need a complete copy of the Debian stable archive plus your modifications, and you will need to read the man page for dpkg-scanpackages (in the dpkg-dev package) so that you can add your own packages to the Packages file for your own archive, so that dpkg and dselect will work with it. Once you've done that, you can install the debian-cd package and generate your own bootable CDs with your custom kernel if you wish. Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Building Your own Boot Disks
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Craig Sanders wrote: imo, everyone should compile their own kernel - the boot/rescue floppy is good to install a system with, but a linux box really should have a kernel compiled especially for itwith only the drivers that it needs compiled in (or as modules), no more and no less. Often true, but it is better to use kernel-package which builds a Debian kernel-image package for this. One great reason is that you can build these packages on a machine that has all the tools and compiles fast. The resulting .deb file is easily installed with dpkg and will take care or making the hard disk boot the new kernel (while preserving the previous one) and creating a boot floppy. Manoj even helped me get a shell script going that will rebuild several custom kernels at a time. His kernel-package is a big help to me as I have several old machines that would take a few hours to build a kernel on. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Building Your own Boot Disks
On Thu, 21 Aug 97 16:51 PDT, Bruce Perens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timm Gleason) Now not wanting to go backward, especially due to the major modifications done to the kernel we are using Is that the BESS Internet filter? I hope your product still lets you read the list, after the language we've been using on debian-user today :-) 15-20 a month and Debian in every one? Cool! Yes, we use Linux servers for all of our on-site and redirect proxy servers. We have been using Debian from the beginning because of the amount of stability and support available. If you're developing big changes to the kernel, please try to contribute them back into the main kernel source thread. Most of the hacks into the kernel involve max file descriptors and inodes to allow for greater simultaneous connections. Almost all of the modifications we have made the real work has been done by someone else out there. We can get near 1500 simultaneous connections with the kernel we currently use. like to know if there is any definitive source of information on building installation disks. The new system that loads base off of a CD is great, but with the modified drivers and kernel, I need to know more about these disks. Sure. You will need two packages: kernel-package and boot-floppies. Kernel-package provides the scripts to build a Debian package from your custom kernel and calling them from the command line is trivial. Boot-floppies provides the scripts to build the boot floppies, and you can easily modify that or just change the packages it installs. You will also need a complete copy of the Debian stable archive plus your modifications, and you will need to read the man page for dpkg-scanpackages (in the dpkg-dev package) so that you can add your own packages to the Packages file for your own archive, so that dpkg and dselect will work with it. Once you've done that, you can install the debian-cd package and generate your own bootable CDs with your custom kernel if you wish. Burn our own bootable CD's, wow that would be even better than what we do now! Timm Gleason ** Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. - Rich Cook ** Timm Gleason -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://n2h2.com/ N2H2, Creators of Bess -- 1301 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1501--Seattle, WA 98101 ** -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
shielding from liability
From: Rick Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, were an individual programmer to incure liability (the only way I can think of off hand is by deliberately caused harm, such as sneaking in a disk eraser), the corporation won't protect that individual. We would likely pursue criminal charges against someone who caused harm with malice aforethought. However there are negligence scenarios, for example a maintainer who accepts a patch without realizing that it contains a trojan-horse program. I want to shield our developers from individual liability in that sort of case. It will, howver, protect the other developers, who could potentially face liability, or at least incur staggering defense costs. However, the legal costs of being right aren't small. Did you notice that The Linux Mall was selling legal liability defense plans for programmers? I would hate to have every developer need to pay for that. Having a corporation sounds like a much better idea. Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Just wanted to say that I'm glad to be able to contribute the $5, delighted to have access to the developers, generally pleased with the spelling on the list, and although I may not agree with it, I'll defend Dave's right to be bounced. I'd like to direct my user-vote in favour of good behaviour since I for one don't begrudge Bruce the baby. Mike -- Michael Hill Toronto, Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Hi, just my two cents... Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : For those who care, the old scheme was to have revisions : called 2.0.1 etc, the new scheme calles them revisions. : old new : === === : 2.0.02.0 : 2.0.12.0 r1 : 2.0.22.0 r2 : : There are no fewer release. All releases are numbered (with : revisions, not point versions). Technically, the two schemes are the : same. Mr Cinege has escalated a percived, non-technical difference : into a jihad. And if we think about Bruce's words: So, we want to make it clear that our CD, even if it is a revision or two behind, is still _current_ product in that you can easily hit our FTP site and update it to the latest and greatest. We are separating the release number from the revision number to emphasize this fact. this makes sense. I don't see anything wrong with this versioning scheme, it's the same as before. However, I feel a litle bit unconfortable with the way things are arranged currently in FTP site: before, in the old 1.1 and 1.2 days it was very easy to find what was changed, I just had to go to buzz-updates or rex-updates and find there all the updated packages. Now, the bo-updates directory has packages that are being tested but are not part of the main distribution yet. When something is released it goes to bo (stable). I don't know, it just that I don't feel confortable with that... E.- -- Eloy A. Paris Information Technology Department Rockwell Automation de Venezuela Telephone: +58-2-9432311 Fax: +58-2-9430323 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Linux kernel 2.0.31????
When is 31 going to be finished? There are already pre-31 patches out.. all the way up to 5. -Paul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: [X] why does X kill my modem?
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tim Sailer wrote:
ttyS0 and ttyS2 are IRQ 3
ttyS1 and ttyS3 are IRQ 4
This *will* be the problem. You have 2 sets of hardware sitting
on the same irqs. This will cause confusion. With standard serial
The old story of telling someone 'you can't do it' when they don't know
they can't do it. :-)
I have this set up running under Linux for almost 2 years now and never
had problem--so long as I don't run X. (Knock on silicon!)
ports, this will never work reliably. Can you set any of the ports
to another irq?
I should be able to. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
--
Bob Billson, KC2WZemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it./)
{|||8- Linux: World domination. Fast. -8|||}
(/\}
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Re: Squid + ipfwadm redirect transparent problems
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Mike wrote: Jose Maria Omo Millan wrote: # Redirect to Squid proxy server /sbin/ipfwadm -I -a acc -P tcp -D default/0 80 -r 8080 ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved While trying to retrieve the URL: / The http 1.0 protocol does not send requested IP address in the request. If a client asks for http://www.playboy.com; then he opens a TCP connection to 205.216.146.202:80 and sends the text GET / HTTP/1.0. Your squid would need to ask the firewall what destination IP address was in the packet, and I guess it can't do that. You can't mix proxies and straight http, they are different protocols. Now I recall the trouble, you have to enable a Squid option for virtual hosting. It will take the address from the socket which is how Transparent Proxy communicates the address. Be very aware that this is not nearly as good as using squid as a proxy with a proxy protocol, your cache hits will go down because sites with multiple IP's for their servers will be cached multiple times. With the new http clients you might not have a problem, donno if squid supports it. Jason -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: [X] why does X kill my modem?
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bob Billson wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tim Sailer wrote: ttyS0 and ttyS2 are IRQ 3 ttyS1 and ttyS3 are IRQ 4 This *will* be the problem. You have 2 sets of hardware sitting on the same irqs. This will cause confusion. With standard serial The old story of telling someone 'you can't do it' when they don't know they can't do it. :-) Heh, I have exactly this problem too, I think what happens is X probes for my mouse and angers one of the serial ports. Only thing I can think up at least. Other than that it works fine! Jason -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Cursor vanishes when LILO loads and doesn't return
I've just installed Debian 1.3.1 on an old 386DX-40 with an EGA card from floppies and the installation went fine but I have no cursor showing, even when I start ae or vi. At the end of the bios test the cursor is there for a moment but disappears before the LILO appears. The cursor also stays gone when I have LILO boot dos and I have to run an utility to reset the cursor. Is there a doc that tells how to handle this? I am a newbie to Linux and Unix and will appreciate the help. Thanks, Michael -- Michael Rokicki [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
And the people who contribute to it should decide the direction in which it goes. Did I miss the developer vote on the version numbering scheme change? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been just WAINTING for someone to bring this up. In my personal opinion, Linus is making a mistake by introducing new features in the release tree and it results in having two development trees going at the Which features in 2.0.31 are the new ones you're objecting to? Almost all of them are driver updates, buffer chache fixes, security patches and finally SMP fixes. The buffer cache problem has been _extermely_ difficult and unfortunately is one of those things that needs time to test in order to insure that it actually fixes things (.31-7 seems to be broken for example). same time. Somehow the old way of releasing bug-fixes only in the stable tree has changed to introducing features from the develpment tree into the stable tree. This results in things breaking and a lot of effort spent on fixes that might in turn break something else, etc. And that led to _everyone_ using the development kernels, getting burnt and complaining that Linux was a moving target that no one could develop for. Hence the reasoning to backport some new improvements, mostly just driver updates to keep people from installing 2.1.45 and blowing away their filesystem and getting on all the mailing lists and raising a stink. From my reading of the kernel developers list, .31 has become like squeezing a water balloon. As of last night I was reading about bugs in pre.31-7 but Linus has made noises about freezing .31 and going to .32 if need be because they HAVE to get fixes out for .30 which is pretty poor when it comes to virtual memory management. Personally I think it was a problem of waiting too long to do .31 (thanks to a couple of whiners), just too many patches to put in the pot. - Steve .. #* # # # # # # | Steve Baker | Barely Working | # ## # # # # # | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | System Administrator | ## # # # # # # | Red-Hat Rulz! | Will work for hardware | ## # ## # # # # `-- SYS-ADMIN FOR HIRE, HAVE UNIX, WILL TRAVEL --' # # # ## # # -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Dale Scheetz writes: Each revision will be properly noted. We aren't doing this for the benefit of CD makers. This is for the benefit of the end user (remember them?) who needs to be able to go to a local retailer and purchase the Debian distribution. If the CD manufacturer is forced to loose his shirt every time he tries to distribute this product, he is not likely to try again, and others who might have tried will be discouraged from the attempt. This is the part that baffles me. Do you really believe that users who won't buy 1.3.1 because 1.3.2 is out will buy 1.3 revision 1 after 1.3 revision 2 comes out? As much as we may dislike having such discussions, marketing issues must be addressed if this goal is to be met. And choosing a simple, consistent, and comprehensible release naming scheme is such an issue. Hambone, bopeep, 1.3.1, and now revision 2... all very confusing. I've been trying to convince the people in the seul project to use Debian: they think Debian is flaky. I like Debian. I use Debian. I'd contribute if I had the resources. But I'm beginning to agree with them. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
Bruce writes: The FTP update is easy. I just took a look at the ftp site. Can't say I agree with you (though it is better). -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: shielding from liability
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: From: Rick Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, were an individual programmer to incure liability (the only way I can think of off hand is by deliberately caused harm, such as sneaking in a disk eraser), the corporation won't protect that individual. We would likely pursue criminal charges against someone who caused harm with malice aforethought. However there are negligence scenarios, for example a maintainer who accepts a patch without realizing that it contains a trojan-horse program. I want to shield our developers from individual liability in that sort of case. It will, howver, protect the other developers, who could potentially face liability, or at least incur staggering defense costs. However, the legal costs of being right aren't small. Did you notice that The Linux Mall was selling legal liability defense plans for programmers? I would hate to have every developer need to pay for that. Having a corporation sounds like a much better idea. hmm. Bruce, we might be able to use that as a selling point to have more upstream authors become the debian maintainers. Shaya -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: [XINETD] problems
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2. using log_type = FILE filename doesn't work if filename doesn't exist. Man page says it should create it, but it doesn't. Am I overlooking something? Can anyone confirm these problems? I can confirm this second one, yes. -- Michael D. Harnois, Redeemer Lutheran Church, Washburn, IA [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Few sinners are saved after the first 20 minutes of a sermon. --Mark Twain -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
I have been just WAINTING for someone to bring this up. In my personal opinion, Linus is making a mistake by introducing new features in the release tree and it results in having two development trees going at the same time. Somehow the old way of releasing bug-fixes only in the stable tree has changed to introducing features from the develpment tree into the stable tree. This results in things breaking and a lot of effort spent on fixes that might in turn break something else, etc. Which new features are you talking about? Be sure not to confuse increased support for some devices with adding new features. I remember before 1.2.13 came out how everyone rushed around to get support for the Adaptec aic7xxx series of boards, and having to apply a patch to get my board to be recognized, let alone acknowledged as being stable.. We don't want that to happen again.. From my reading of the kernel developers list, .31 has become like squeezing a water balloon. As of last night I was reading about bugs in pre.31-7 but Linus has made noises about freezing .31 and going to .32 if need be because they HAVE to get fixes out for .30 which is pretty poor when it comes to virtual memory management. They are now actively persuing development of .30. It seemed for a while work on the 2.0 series had stopped. Linus planned to release 2.0.31 last weekend, if there were no more problems.. Well, it hasn't been released yet... Dave -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: shielding from liability
Bruce writes: However there are negligence scenarios, for example a maintainer who accepts a patch without realizing that it contains a trojan-horse program. I want to shield our developers from individual liability in that sort of case. Is every maintainer an employee or agent of SPI, then? Or is SPI going to purchase liability insurance and name all the maintainers as beneficiaries? I don't really think there is much risk, though. Where's the duty? Has there ever actually been a negligence suit over free software? -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Knowing what to update on my Debian system?
On Aug 21, 1997, at 14:53, Bruce Perens wrote: A substantial part of that 67MB is the X change for Richard Stallman. XDM prints Debian GNU/Linux rather than Debian Linux. All of X got rebuilt to keep the release numbers consistent. I have no problem accomodating Richard, but I don't need to rush this change to every last user and make them spend money to get it, do I? That sounds fine to me. I'm just about to install Debian from my Cheapbytes CD. What I need to know is this: say I'm done with installing from CD, I have a functional Debian system, and I point the package installer to one of the ftp sites to browse and see what it suggests I should update (I gather I can do this, can't I?). Now, say the installer suggests upgrading packages A, B and C. Can I know (without downloading them, that is) what has been changed in those packages between the versions I have installed and the versions on the ftp site? For example, I'm not going to download 67 MB just to get Debian GNU/Linux rather than Debian Linux on xdm (which I don't use anyway). How do I go about this? By the way, the CDs I got from Cheapbytes have the following printed on them: Official Debian 1.3 1 Official Debian 1.3 2 Have I been ripped off? Is this the latest 1.3.1 CD, or an older version? How could I check? Bruce -- Gonzalo A. Diethelm G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Since this is going around in a circle, please lets all drop it. Thanks, David On 21-Aug-97 Dave Cinege wrote: ---cut--- Oh boy...is this going in a circle... ---cut--- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:12:59 -0400 (EDT), Dale Scheetz wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Dave Cinege wrote: It's not about .1 R1, or Asub1, to the 2nd power of 4. It's about something that is frozen, actully staying frozen. If the disc says 1.3.1, I should be able crccheck the whole damn thing against the master 1.3.1 dist, and have it come up clean. Right NOW you can't even do that, Not true! 1.3.1 is a fixed object, available as an Official image. It hasn't changed since its release, and, to the best of my knowledge, will not ever change. Bruce Perens: The next version of the system will be called Debian 1.3.1 Revision 1. People who make long-term products based on Debian requested that we not change the version number of the system if we were only making a few bug fixes. For example, X windows was rebuilt because Richard Stallman requested that XDM display Debian GNU/Linux rather than just Debian Linux. It's worthwhile to insert that change, but not worthwhile to make everyone think they need to upgrade their systems because of it. Thus, we will not bump the release number to 1.3.2 for minor changes. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On 21 Aug 1997 16:08:05 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: There are no fewer release. All releases are numbered (with revisions, not point versions). Technically, the two schemes are the same. Mr Cinege has escalated a percived, non-technical difference into a jihad. No I'm talking about the same revs conatining differences. Something that the developers are conviently ignoring. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
EtherLink III
Is anyone running Debian using an EtherLink III 3C589C pcmcia card ? I'm looking for a module/support so I can use the card. Thanks, Matthew -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On 21 Aug 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale Scheetz writes: Each revision will be properly noted. We aren't doing this for the benefit of CD makers. This is for the benefit of the end user (remember them?) who needs to be able to go to a local retailer and purchase the Debian distribution. If the CD manufacturer is forced to loose his shirt every time he tries to distribute this product, he is not likely to try again, and others who might have tried will be discouraged from the attempt. This is the part that baffles me. Do you really believe that users who won't buy 1.3.1 because 1.3.2 is out will buy 1.3 revision 1 after 1.3 revision 2 comes out? As much as we may dislike having such discussions, marketing issues must be addressed if this goal is to be met. And choosing a simple, consistent, and comprehensible release naming scheme is such an issue. Hambone, bopeep, 1.3.1, and now revision 2... all very confusing. I've been trying to convince the people in the seul project to use Debian: they think Debian is flaky. I like Debian. I use Debian. I'd contribute if I had the resources. But I'm beginning to agree with them. Good point, John. It seems that the sugar-coated explanation still doesn't taste very good. Hey, users who are listening - Debian 1.3.3 is out but it's still called 1.3.1 so nobody who buys those CD sets will feel inferior? We need someone with a Ph.D. in policy analysis to convince us that it really does taste good. Why don't we just call it Debian GNU/Linux 1.3.1.your_lucky_number? +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
On Aug 21, Paul Wade wrote Long live anarchy! Long live the Revolution and the Counter-Revolution! Long live the Dedicated Diehard Debianist! I will be running a special on 1.3.whatever_it_really_is binary CD's starting this weekend and continuing for at least one month. Longer if that's what it takes to clean this up. I will make it cheaper to get a 1.3.really_current binary CD than the 1.3.1 Official set. Details will be up at http://www.greenbush.com/ by noon tomorrow. On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Paul Serice wrote: Now for your anarchist side, when governments become overbearing they tend to nationalize -- meaning they take property away from corporations (and other private organizations or individuals) for the supposed general welfare. So, it is not difficult to see that freedom from intrusive government does not necessarily imply fewer corporations. As a matter of fact, strong and health corporations arguably contribute as much to your personal autonomy as any other single factor. Does Microsoft contribute to my personal autonomy? If so, I prefer anarchy. Linux is revolutionary in nature. What if Linus had decided instead to develop something that required Windows or SCO Unix? I notice that the people behind Debian like to avoid dependencies on commercial products. It is a reality that many users could not create their first rescue floppy without MS-DOS, but we have to live with it because we don't want to be such 'purists' that we have to ship floppies to get people started. Imitating the large software company is anethema to the philosophies of dedicated Linux enthusiasts. The honest thing to do is let the consumer know exactly what he is getting. The 1.3.1 Official CD files are timestamped July 7. Since then, the stable ftp archive has had at least 2 changes which warrant a DEFINITE DISTINCTION from those CD sets. Those 2 changes were the replacement of disks/current. Since these are the images that install the base, the change is not trivial. Otherwise they would be in a testing or incoming directory. They were installed into stable to fix bugs or add features, I assume. Therefore, the ftp archive should CLEARLY differentiate itself from the 1.3.1 that was pressed onto so many discs that the foolish vendors now need to unload. So call it 1.3.3 or 1.3.1R3 or whatever, but make it obvious. If you don't do that you will need a corporation to protect the developers from personal liability. Why? Because Debian is going to great lengths to protect a few vendors who made a bad decision and need to get rid of the 'dead horse' inventory. When that is done it will it be okay to move things from bo-updates to bo and change the symlink to 1.3.2? Maybe the people who bought those CD sets will start thinking they've been fooled a bit and will hate Debian more than Microsoft. Dave used some strong language because he is rightfully pissed off. Now let me say this as a vendor of freshly recorded (1.3.?) Debian CD-R products: F___ the CD vendors. All of them including myself. If I wanted to just duplicate a CD image, I would copy a Slackware or Redhat CD and actually make a profit. Those of us who actually organize CD images would be better off if Debian would go back to the good old numbering scheme and concentrate on the concept of painless upgrading. That way people who found an old 1.1.x CD could pop in one of our 1.3.999 discs and upgrade their system without a lot of hassles. I say increment the release numbers. I doubt that the vendors who are still stuck with 1.3.1 inventory will decide to press the next release whenever it comes out. If there is a need (and a market) for cheap Debian CD's let me be honest enough to tell everyone the costs: 1000 CD-ROM's $750 Paper sleeves 5 cents Sturdy mailer 20 cents So it costs about $1.80 for a binary/source set with 2 colors printed on the discs. It costs another 78 cents to mail them to US customers. Grand total of $2.58. These vendors are charging $8.99 with shipping and handling and they need protection? I suppose the rationale is that they are paying good wages to the people who put the discs in the sleeves and seal the mailer. I preferred it before when it went from 1.2 to 1.2.18 in about 7 months. I mean the upgrades were free, right? Look at it this way: if you had to pay $50.00 per upgrade to a commercial OS that would be a $900.00 value! When I was asked if the 'Official CD' would hurt my business, I said it wouldn't because of the revision frequency of Debian. I didn't expect this new fuzzy numbering system to go along with it! Well, it has hurt my business. But don't expect me to give up and go away. Oh, I almost forgot. F___ Microsoft, too! Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation I will state up front that I am not at this time a developer. Thus, I realize I have no vote in the matter. It has been brought up on the
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:30:52 -0500, Paul Serice wrote: The government has always been involved. In general though, it is With the developers and servers in Germany? nl? The presence of developers and servers in Germany does not limit the ability of the American legal system to reach the developers in the U.S. So, yes, despite developers in Germany, the government is, and always has been, involved. Think of the loop-hole if all you had to do was set up an office in Germany to avoid U.S. jurisdiction over persons and things in the U.S. This is such an obvious response, I fear I'm missing your point though. Yes you have. I'm saying the work done be the people outside the US is now asscoiated with a US entity. It's not 'theirs' anymore, while it is in the US. state law, not federal, that controls, and (if I remember correctly) most states impose personal liability (as in they come and take away your house and car) for unorganized groups such as Debian was. They could have not followed anything past the guy that caused it. Now they can. With all due respect, I think you have it backwards. Now, the corporation protects not just those beyond the guy that caused the problem. It even protects that particular guy. If I make a package tonight, and submited it, am I then consider an employee (agent, memeber, whatever) of that corp? No, and therefor it means nothing to my liability. But since there is now a legal person called Debian we could both be brought into litigation. Before if someone did something, it was just them. To do anything to Debian meant going after all the seperate people involved. That's because no guy named Debian existednow he does If anything is done to this guy, the work the developers are 'giving' him are subject to any sanctions against him. Follow? It has created a liabity. Before though, in most states at least, anyone wronged by the unincorporated organization could have followed anything past the guy that caused it to all the other members. The other members only recourse would be against the guy who caused it; however, the members would still be liable directly to the injured party. What members? Debian never existed. There was no formal orginazation. No solid heiarchy. No dues. No finacial tranactions with the Debian name. (at least there should not have been) That's the way it works, and that's the way it should work. A group of people cannot avoid liability by refusing to incorporate, and as soon as the group does incorporate, the law kicks in and makes certain requirements of the corporation, e.g., that it not be undercapitalized, for the benefit of third parties who deal with the entity. Phooey. Do all the developers hold there own copyright? Huh? Do they? Then they are each indivigually liable no matter what. The corp just now officially puts them all in the same basket. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the freaking money
George Bonser wrote: On 21 Aug 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the part that baffles me. Do you really believe that users who won't buy 1.3.1 because 1.3.2 is out will buy 1.3 revision 1 after 1.3 revision 2 comes out? I think the idea is, you buy the 1.3 CDROM and pick up the revisions from the net. Just like Caldera does. In other words, maybe debian should just put the updates in a directory called 1.3-updates and not use symlinks to point updates packages to the updates from the base 1.3 tree. This would make mirroring easier as the 1.3 tree would (in theory) never change and mirrors would only have to keep the 1.3-updates directory up to date. Users would install the 1.3 installation then add the 1.3-updates instead as the sub-distribution to check for updated packages. In this way, if a distribution goes defunct and is replaced, only the X.x-updates directory needs to be left around for people that might want to update a disk that is a couple of revs behind current. This is an excellent idea. It is straightforward and makes much more sense from the point of view of actual users whose primary concern is a working system. Dave Neuer -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Cursor vanishes when LILO loads and doesn't return
Cross your fingers and run setterm -cursor on. If that doesn't work, can you get a VGA card in there? Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: Good point, John. It seems that the sugar-coated explanation still doesn't taste very good. Hey, users who are listening - Debian 1.3.3 is out but it's still called 1.3.1 so nobody who buys those CD sets will feel inferior? We need someone with a Ph.D. in policy analysis to convince us that it really does taste good. Why don't we just call it Debian GNU/Linux 1.3.1.your_lucky_number? Sorry friend, but this is false. 1.3.1 is out. The few changes that have been made to it were done so in error. I believe that resulted from Guy's absense. But, mistakes will be made occaisionally in any case. None of the packages in bo-updates have been released into the official distribution. In case you haven't noticed, we've been trying to implement some new quality control procedures with 1.3, and it's up to the testing manager, Dale, to approve the packages before they go into the main distribution. This is the first time we've tried this, and it looks like bo-updates was the wrong name for the updates that are not yet approved by the testing group. Syrus. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Syrus Nemat-Nasser [EMAIL PROTECTED]UCSD Physics Dept. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: shielding from liability
On 21 Aug 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruce writes: However there are negligence scenarios, for example a maintainer who accepts a patch without realizing that it contains a trojan-horse program. I want to shield our developers from individual liability in that sort of case. Is every maintainer an employee or agent of SPI, then? Or is SPI going to purchase liability insurance and name all the maintainers as beneficiaries? I don't really think there is much risk, though. Where's the duty? Has there ever actually been a negligence suit over free software? If it was free you couldn't sue for a refund. I really think you could only sue a party that intentionally and maliciously damaged you. That would require a serious effort to instill a false sense of trust in the software. Microsoft did this to me with a database product called Access. I should have sued them for my $99 plus damages. Yeah, fat chance. A smaller entity like SPI is much more likely to be sued than a rich fascist company like u-no-hoo. It would be a nuisance suit, but SPI doesn't have a legal department with full-time attorneys to quickly dispose of such things. Anybody who is breathing US air these days is a potential victim of unwarranted, frivilous legal actions. Paranoia helps the insurance companies sell policies. Highly insured defendants means more of the money awarded by courts is actually collectible. This increases the paranoia and more insurance is purchased. There are 2 things which are getting to be worse than any tax: insurance premiums and the percentage that merchants pay on every credit card sale. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
LILO Problems, Groan
Joy. I've installed Debian 1.3.1 fresh on a 486/66 with ~4 megs of ram. This machine is to be a router for home, but right after the install when I'm to reboot and see how my system goes, I get this as an error message when LILO won't load: 3FA: Yup. That's it. That on a line. Then, I booted from my boot disk, logged in as root, uninstalled lilo, reinstalled it, and got the same message when I rebooted. It doesn't even get to LILO. It stops right after it checks the floppy and gives the above informative message. Anybody have any ideas? -- Paul Lange University of Texas ECE LRC Unix Services internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~pel -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: LILO Problems, Groan
On Aug 22, Paul Lange wrote Joy. I've installed Debian 1.3.1 fresh on a 486/66 with ~4 megs of ram. This machine is to be a router for home, but right after the install when I'm to reboot and see how my system goes, I get this as an error message when LILO won't load: 3FA: Yup. That's it. That on a line. Then, I booted from my boot disk, logged in as root, uninstalled lilo, reinstalled it, and got the same message when I rebooted. It doesn't even get to LILO. It stops right after it checks the floppy and gives the above informative message. Anybody have any ideas? -- Paul Lange University of Texas ECE LRC Unix Services internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~pel make the boot line in /etc/lilo.conf read boot=/dev/hda - or sda for SCSI and run lilo alternatively, toggle the bootable flag on the partition that the boot line points at. -- - Mike Schmitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.bend-or.com/~mschmitz Don't blame me - I voted libertarian!http://www.lp.org/ Use Debian Linux - the free Gnu/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ - -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: Good point, John. It seems that the sugar-coated explanation still doesn't taste very good. Hey, users who are listening - Debian 1.3.3 is out but it's still called 1.3.1 so nobody who buys those CD sets will feel inferior? We need someone with a Ph.D. in policy analysis to convince us that it really does taste good. Why don't we just call it Debian GNU/Linux 1.3.1.your_lucky_number? Sorry friend, but this is false. 1.3.1 is out. The few changes that have been made to it were done so in error. I believe that resulted from Guy's ^ Then they should have been reversed. If they were done in error, where was the warning message to prevent people from using the 'bad' Debian? absense. But, mistakes will be made occaisionally in any case. None of the packages in bo-updates have been released into the official distribution. In case you haven't noticed, we've been trying to implement some new quality control procedures with 1.3, and it's up to the testing manager, Dale, to approve the packages before they go into the main distribution. This is the first time we've tried this, and it looks like bo-updates was the wrong name for the updates that are not yet approved by ^^^ the testing group. That is a bit of an understatement. The readme file in that directory is not entirely clear to many people. It sounds like it should have been called bo-whataretheseanyway. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clint Adams) Did I miss the developer vote on the version numbering scheme change? A while ago we held a vote on the leadership of the project. The developers strongly rejected the idea of a Roman Senate where all decisions would be voted upon. They prefered to have an elected executive and ratified me to hold that position and appoint other positions. I have held votes since then when I felt that form of feedback from the developers was necessary. However the only one I am required to hold is the annual vote for project leader. The sense of the developers was that design-by-comittee could go wrong and that a strong leader was necessary to guide the group. Excuse me for bragging, but we've been incredibly successful under my leadership :-) Want the job? It's available January 1. I'll decide whether I'm running or not depending on who the candidates are. Let me warn you that it's a really difficult job, it takes hours of your life every day, the pay stinks, and you get lots of abuse. Thanks Bruce -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Dave Wreski wrote: When is 31 going to be finished? There are already pre-31 patches out.. all the way up to 5. They are up to pre-7 now. Looks like there's still a few problems to be worked out, to be sure we have a nice stable kernel. The best thing you can do at this point is to install pre-7 on all your machines, and test it heavily, to be sure there are no bugs. And be sure to report the ones you do find, so we're sure to have a stable one.. I would say for those of us who don't know how (or don't want to) mess with it, the BEST thing you can do at this point is install 2.0.29 and leave it at that. Every Linux production server I work on is 2.0.29. Not one single 2.0.30 in the bunch... Later, Paul --- J. Paul Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] || [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer, you and I need to have a little talk... --Chief Miles O'Brien, Emissary, Star Trek: DS9 Geek Code and various other frivolities at www.verinet.com/~preed -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
This ugly policy discussion on debian-user.
Hello Dave and Paul. It's nice that you have all this energy available to carry on this discussion, but I've grown quite weary of reading you posts. Thus, I'm probably going to take Dave's advice, from one of his early messages, and make some new entries in my kill file. Before I do kill one or more addresses, I'd like to say a few things. (1) If you want to affect Debian policy decisions, you need to convince the developers, not the users. The user list is busy enough as it is. Why don't you try the debian-devel or debian-policy mailing lists? (2) The developers voted for our Social Contract. We seem to be proceeding within its guidelines. If you two can't stand what's happening, you can feel free to start your own distribution based on the current snapshot of Debian GNU/Linux. (3) The change in the revision name system is truly minor. You guys have just plain blown it up into something to yell about. We will get through the small amount of confusion, and everything will be fine, with or without all the ranting and raving. (4) Regarding the idea of incorporation. You guys missed the boat on that one. The idea was brought up more than a year ago, and was discussed from time to time on the devel list. If you guys wanted a voice in policy, you should have been active on the devel mailing list. If you, Dave, keep bagging on the developers, I doubt that any of them will listen to any points that you might have. You seem to think that yelling at a group of volunteers will get them to do more work for you. Syrus. P.S. You guys make me :-( -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Syrus Nemat-Nasser [EMAIL PROTECTED]UCSD Physics Dept. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: [snip] Then they should have been reversed. If they were done in error, where was the warning message to prevent people from using the 'bad' Debian? Once again, our regular archive maintainer, who is not paid for his time, is on vacation. You sure want to treat us like a commercial corporation, dont' you: Where's the immediate service? Come on guys, you better fix mistakes in the archive before they happen! What, you have to work for a living too? No excuse! You better make me a perfect distribution now! Syrus. P.S. I'm serious, just like they used to tell me on the playground in pre-school. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Syrus Nemat-Nasser [EMAIL PROTECTED]UCSD Physics Dept. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] And choosing a simple, consistent, and comprehensible release naming scheme is such an issue. Hambone, bopeep, 1.3.1, and now revision 2... all very confusing. I've been trying to convince the people in the seul project to use Debian: they think Debian is flaky. We just chose a naming scheme. Our previous one gave people the impression that Debian came out with a new release every month, which was enough to make anyone think we were flaky. Hamm and Bo are code-names. The reasons we use them have to do with FTP mirrors not responding well to moving directories containing 1GB of files. We want to have a name like bo before 1.3 comes out, and only name it 1.3 once the release has been made. Back in the 1.0 development we called it 1.0 during development, and the non-working prototype ended up on an Infomagic CD. Never again. What is the seul project? Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
Bruce writes: The FTP update is easy. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just took a look at the ftp site. Can't say I agree with you (though it is better). Have you tried dselect's FTP method yet? It does that update automaticaly. That's why I said it's easy. Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: [problem][tetex][locate]
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], write
s:
I installed tetex-{base,bin,extra} today. Running latex produces:
I can't find the default format file!
having searched for an hour through tetex documentation (and been very
confused by the concept of kpathsea), I find that this is either
texmf.cnf or latex.fmt (I can't figure out which). So:
1) locate texmf.cnf shows it in /etc/texmf/, but there are no files in
this directory according to ls.
I have:
$ ls -l /etc/texmf
total 94
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 80 Jan 5 1997 XDvi
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 Jun 19 08:24 dvips
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1867 Feb 14 1997 language.dat
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2720 Jun 19 08:29 maketex.site
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root83730 Dec 7 1996 modes.mf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3815 Jun 19 08:29 texmf.cnf
It looks as if something has gone wrong with your installation
of tetex.
2) latex.fmt is in /usr/lib/texmf/web2c, but running kpathsea doesn't
find it. I might not be running it right, because I'm not really sure
what I'm doing.
Can someone help me get tetex configured?
Thanks in advance.
Will
---
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For PGP Public Key, visit my website.
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Isle of Wight http://lfix.co.uk/oliver
Make it idiot-proof, and someone will breed a better idiot.
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LILO, yet again
Thank you, Mr. Schmitz. You fixed that problem for me. Unfortunately, now, when it boots, it stops at LI. Sigh. The docs say this means that the second stage loader failed to be executed by the first stage loader, and that is probably due to a geometry mismatch or move of /boot/boot.b without running the map installer. However, none of these occurred. And I double checked by running lilo again. Incidentally, I'm sure this has already come up here, but since I upgraded to 1.3, some of my modules don't load in the initial startup and give some sort of not found error message, but load up fine by hand later on. -- Paul Lange University of Texas ECE LRC Unix Services internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~pel -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
From: George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] maybe debian should just put the updates in a directory called 1.3-updates and not use symlinks to point updates packages to the updates from the base 1.3 tree. Guy Maor, the person who does the work of maintaining the archive, rejected the above scheme. He felt that putting the updates in the directory with the rest of the system was better, and he is the person who does the work so I let him decide. He used to maintain the updates directory and a bunch of symlinks so that you had a directory containing the original system with the updates overlaid upon it, and he says it was a big hassle and confused lots of users. This would make mirroring easier as the 1.3 tree would (in theory) never change and mirrors would only have to keep the 1.3-updates directory up to date. I think the intent is that you let dselect do the FTP for you. Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: shielding from liability
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is every maintainer an employee or agent of SPI, then? Or is SPI going to purchase liability insurance and name all the maintainers as beneficiaries? They act as agents of SPI in a restricted way, yes. We grant them access to our internal system to perform volunteer work for the corporation. We do posess an employer ID number, but we don't feel it's appropriate for this situation. We don't need to purchase liability insurance as long as the corporation's total assets are small. Since the corporation has the liability, it is not necessary to make the developers beneficiaries of liability insurance. I don't really think there is much risk, though. A software bug can cause damage to life or property. We disclaim warranties, but some states have laws that don't allow you to disclaim _all_ warranties. Has there ever actually been a negligence suit over free software? I have not heard of one. I am not willing to put my family's security at risk so that I can be the first test case :-) Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: LILO, yet again
Well, my disk is 545megs big, but I don't have a CMOS type BIOS. It's an older Phoenix BIOS. I had to define the hard drive by cylinders, sectors, and heads. There were two other fields that I didn't know how to modify, those being Pre and LZ, both of which I put 0 as values. Grr... -- Paul Lange University of Texas ECE LRC Unix Services internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~pel -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Bruce, On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clint Adams) Did I miss the developer vote on the version numbering scheme change? A while ago we held a vote on the leadership of the project. The developers strongly rejected the idea of a Roman Senate where all decisions would be voted upon. They prefered to have an elected executive and ratified me to hold that position and appoint other positions. I have held votes since then when I felt that form of feedback from the developers was necessary. However the only one I am required to hold is the annual vote for project leader. The sense of the developers was that design-by-comittee could go wrong and that a strong leader was necessary to guide the group. Excuse me for bragging, but we've been incredibly successful under my leadership :-) Want the job? It's available January 1. I'll decide whether I'm running or not depending on who the candidates are. Let me warn you that it's a really difficult job, it takes hours of your life every day, the pay stinks, and you get lots of abuse. On the other hand, of course, you can look back with pride on what has been achieved, knowing that you have a lot of friends out there. I'm about as far as one can get from the action, so maybe I don't know what is going on, or maybe I can see it clearer. I dunno. But from here it seems that Debian has been extremely fortunate in its choice of leader. You have shown a remarkable capacity to see the big picture and to be able to guide us in the right direction while contributing at the same time to the nuts and bolts of our OS. I have also noted in the past your broad shoulders and your ability to shrug off ill informed criticism. (I remember your comment some time back about the job fitting you for a career in politics.) So I am just going to wait and hope that you do stand for the job again next year. Your contribution is very much appreciated. I'll stand you dinner and a bottle of claret next time you venture to my QTH. :-) Lindsay vk6lj =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lindsay Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perth, Western Australia voice +61 8 9316 2486modem +61 8 9364-9832 32S, 116E =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
what versions change
Dave C. quoting various people. Not true! 1.3.1 is a fixed object, available as an Official image. It hasn't changed since its release, and, to the best of my knowledge, will not ever change. He's talking about the 1.3.1 Official CD ISO image, which has indeed not changed since I made it, and which has a published checksum. The next version of the system will be called Debian 1.3.1 Revision 1. 1.3.1 Revision 1 will definitely be on the FTP site. I may, or may not, make a 1.3.1 Revision 1 Official CD master, depending on the severity of the bugs fixed by the update. I expect the FTP site will be updated much more frequently than the Official CD. That might make the CD-R vendors happy. I think that German bookstore sold so many silver Debian CDs because they were convenient. Right there on the shelf, pick it up, no mail order, take it home and plug it in, instant gratification. I think the people who go for that are different from those who go for Paul Wade's CD-R. I have to act in their interest as well as yours. Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
changes in a release without any numbers changing
From: Dave Cinege [EMAIL PROTECTED] No I'm talking about the same revs conatining differences. Something that the developers are conviently ignoring. I already admitted it was a mistake today, and we won't do it again. I think the person who made the change understands that now. Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
The new version naming scheme and control is based on politics and not technical reasons. Until now, I didn't notice any decrease in functionality. If the orginization were not invloded in promotions, and makings CD-Rom, they could get back to simply working towards the orginazation of a quality product. Thats their purpose as far as I'm concerned, not worring about if CD makers can keep their stock up to date. AFAIK, people do _work_ on this _product_ in their free time. I don't feel to have any moral right to tell them, how they should spend it. If all or some of them would decide to dedicate this time to commercial actions, I'll have to accept this, as they are free to do so. BTW, as soon as you are talking about a product, you're introducing commercial concepts. -- Ciccio C. Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: This ugly policy discussion on debian-user.
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: Hello Dave and Paul. It's nice that you have all this energy available to carry on this discussion, but I've grown quite weary of reading you posts. Thus, I'm probably going to take Dave's advice, from one of his early messages, and make some new entries in my kill file. Before I do kill one or more addresses, I'd like to say a few things. Go ahead if it makes you feel better. I think my reply to your previous post was valid on the 2 points: 1) If the ftp archive was changed in ERROR, it should have been reversed or a clear PUBLIC warning given not to use it. I don't believe it was an error, but was an update. 2) Your comments about the bo-updates name is quite an understatement. You have every right to filter out the truth, but it will still be the truth. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: EtherLink III
Is anyone running Debian using an EtherLink III 3C589C pcmcia card ? I'm looking for a module/support so I can use the card. Yep, worked fine... untill a couple of months ago. There seems to be a bug now somewhere that lets Linux see the card as an Anonymous memory card However it's not a problem with the pcmcia support! (I have one portable which I installed about a year ago which runs without problems with an EtherLink III 3C589C. I copied the pcmcia sources to a recently installed portable (from the InfoMagic CD's). It ran fine untill I upgraded everything but the pcmcia support to the newest release of Debian. Apparently something else is breaking the EtherLink III 3C589C support :-(. Nico. Thanks, Matthew -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- -- Nico De Ranter Sony Objective Composer (SOCOM) Sint Stevens Woluwestraat 55 (Rue de Woluwe-Saint-Etienne) 1130 Brussel (Bruxelles), Belgium, Europe, Earth Telephone: +32 2 724 17 41 Telefax: +32 2 726 26 86 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
killing a process
This may be off the debian-specific topic but.. I have a mirror process that has been going for a long time. I would like to kill it but it seems to be really stubborn. I have tried : kill -9 pidhere but nothing happens to the process. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to kill the process? - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: writing off the value of services donated
On Thu, 21 Aug 97 13:28 PDT, Bruce Perens wrote: Dave Cinege: Do you think the IRS will allow companies to write off the ftp bandwidth they donate? Yes, you can deduct the value of services donated to a 501(c)3 non-profit from your income for tax purposes. Not just FTP bandwidth, all sorts of services. I doubt that since it would already be written off for the business uses, it could then be deducted again. If you do your personal taxes on the long form, there's a place to fill in charitable mileage. Drive somewhere to work for Debian? Write it off. I don't pay the income tax. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:52:43 +0200, Ciccio wrote: If the orginization were not invloded in promotions, and makings CD-Rom, they could get back to simply working towards the orginazation of a quality product. Thats their purpose as far as I'm concerned, not worring about if CD makers can keep their stock up to date. AFAIK, people do _work_ on this _product_ in their free time. I don't feel to have any moral right to tell them, how they should spend it. When they are acting as the official Debian entity you do! - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
rebuild kernel problem
I tried to rebuild the kernel using :make xconfig, make dep, make clean, make zlilo, but I received the following error message fro make zlilo, I don't have a clue on how to fix this problem, any help would be appreciated : make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/kernel-source-2.0.30/arch/i386/boot/compressed' ./xtract /usr/src/kernel-source-2.0.30/vmlinux | gzip -9 | ./piggyback piggy.o Non-GCC header of 'system' Compressed size 20. ld -qmagic -Ttext 0xfe0 -o vmlinux head.o misc.o piggy.o ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 0fe0 misc.o: In function `fill_inbuf': misc.o(.text+0x1ebc): undefined reference to `input_data' misc.o(.text+0x1ec1): undefined reference to `input_len' misc.o(.text+0x1ed7): undefined reference to `input_data' make[2]: *** [vmlinux] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/kernel-source-2.0.30/arch/i386/boot/compressed' make[1]: *** [compressed/vmlinux] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/kernel-source-2.0.30/arch/i386/boot' make: *** [zlilo] Error 2 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
version numbering
Paul Wade: Hey, users who are listening - Debian 1.3.3 is out but it's still called 1.3.1 so nobody who buys those CD sets will feel inferior? Why am I taking so much guff from you when I work for free as a volunteer and you take my work and make money off of it? Or are you only annoying me as a hobby, Mr. President of Greenbush Corporation? In return for the free work I do, I want to have my software distributed widely. Many other Debian developers want this, too. The CD vendors who are important to me are the ones who get my software into the hands of interesting users, and lots of them! They get my software into stores, so that lots of people can buy it. For that service, I don't begrudge them their profit, and I don't think it inappropriate if they want some stability, even if that means the software might be a few months behind when it gets to the user. You and your small CD-R business help a little, and you serve a useful niche market, but you are not first in my priorities and you are far from essential to Debian's survival. Here is a list of what is updated (so far) in bo-updates. This is what you would lose if you bought a mass-market CD rather than the Paul Wade version. Please feel free to use this change-log (and its successors) in your advertising. Please let the mass market business take care of itself, and please don't get in its way. Thanks Bruce -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Format: 1.5 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:34:50 -0500 Source: adduser Binary: adduser Architecture: source all Version: 3.6 Distribution: stable unstable Urgency: high Maintainer: Guy Maor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: adduser- Add users and groups to the system. Changes: adduser (3.6) stable unstable; urgency=high . * Fixed adduser --system. (#11627) Files: 6bf7311a86683ea08f2d32c786c9aa08 537 base required adduser_3.6.dsc 13263539a927fb7e17870bf470598b83 12244 base required adduser_3.6.tar.gz bc4df63034c9e579917f2824f8c45fd6 13312 base required adduser_3.6_all.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM+DdE/xmV0Di4lTBAQE8dwQAyCmFANJa1Ndx/n2wxpIZNuRmhIZtWGIa gOg23h0BvlSGCp3krYCujyBXUZ4qOokkO7bYP/vzXfpYfAKnWh0giM7HGG3O3vQh Lw4ueEDHo7rqDq42oWvBbVIfH9/BUf6NnmNBHdg3bDK9tt4ootBHCVYOk9OBq6E8 ZSuqbGh8d4Q= =p/Pz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Format: 1.5 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:56:11 + Source: svgalib Binary: aout-svgalib Architecture: i386 Version: 1:1.2.10-5 Distribution: stable Urgency: high Maintainer: Christian Hudon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: aout-svgalib - Shared, non-x, graphics library used by Ghostscript et al. svgalib1-bin - SVGA display utilities svgalib1-dev - Shared, non-x, graphics library used by Ghostscript et al. svgalib1 - SVGA display utilities Changes: svgalib (1:1.2.10-5) stable unstable; urgency=HIGH . * Applied patch to fix security hole (svgalib didn't restore uid/gid properly). * debian/rules binary now sets permissions of installation scripts correctly. * Other minor tweaks to debian/rules Files: f093ba234b094b81e418045aef422e27 201870 libs optional aout-svgalib_1.2.10-5_i386.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM+Yg8Y4/+LDuJkz5AQHppgQAk8ZCPFfC4McA5LWKystOZLwpP9FWUiLI dyJtHOFmbG+WIoHsCkT51HaKfaPo754h+N4P15pcBKqLzP5120BsjQDkDbUDbJdw 5X+AA0B6y1VVQd3h5iYA+VZbRnEiRMqpAeV5CSFkGwk6pwO6WlxxWgHHX/vAWbiw zewIQDMEKrM= =RshL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Format: 1.5 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:59:03 -0400 Source: bind Binary: bind Architecture: source i386 Version: 4.9.6-1 Distribution: stable Urgency: medium Maintainer: Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: bind - An Internet domain name server. Changes: bind (4.9.6-1) stable; urgency=medium . * Security release. Files: 96ba8c208e36e2d7fbb443a82f01b2ee 609 net extra bind_4.9.6-1.dsc 50dddb9a1c9c82f6e9e863e5ac8143f1 2010894 net extra bind_4.9.6.orig.tar.gz 9a346143c8a6faf94ac36cbdc2ee36ba 9771 net extra bind_4.9.6-1.diff.gz 4b301bf481e48f680bf571f15bb4cf90 597350 net extra bind_4.9.6-1_i386.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: latin1 iQCVAwUBM9E1xBCswmGWXGp9AQHcIgP/atOoXZPRivsSe2w4RJ7jyHvJJkyeUQIW f/am6GhmNDFT/tbRpXRDUQxz+h/fwE0dg0r0yiNLjG9g0/b30MwsE9oUUwBrAKKK SROsM3fcCkr1H57hSbf2UrSHlCAT3632c9goXmEe3t5ubQL7I5tgDbZ+mL9voaFL V05yaUhG1VI= =X3sQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Format: 1.5 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:38:21 +0200 Source: boot-floppies Binary: boot-floppies Architecture: source all Version: 1.2.23 Distribution: stable unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Sven Rudolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: boot-floppies - Scripts to create the Debian installation floppy set. Changes: boot-floppies (1.2.23) stable unstable; urgency=low . * debian/control: change maintainer name * basedisks.sh: don't create /dev/inet (#11599) create
RE: This ugly policy discussion on debian-user.
On 22-Aug-97 Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: Hello Dave and Paul. It's nice that you have all this energy available to carry on this discussion, but I've grown quite weary of reading you posts. Thus, I'm probably going to take Dave's advice, from one of his early messages, and make some new entries in my kill file. Before I do kill one or more addresses, I'd like to say a few things. I wish both of them will drop these. These totally useless nonsense only promotes early retirement of developers since how can they enjoy any of these nonsense. If any user think this is productive, they are dreaming. You just have to look at an example after an example in the freesoftware community to see how damaging few persistent user with a bad attitude can cause. Good example of this is case of 2.0.31 being delayed because of people who don't appreciate the time and effort given to freesoftware by developers. For details of this, read mail archives of linux.kernel mailing list. (1) If you want to affect Debian policy decisions, you need to convince the developers, not the users. The user list is busy enough as it is. Why don't you try the debian-devel or debian-policy mailing lists? As a user, I for one don't want to affect the Debian policy decisions. If a user wants a say in policies, then they should become a developer. David -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
George B.: I suppose that my point was that after a distribution expires from the ftp site, if the updates directory could remain, a person with an older cdrom could still possibly update to a newer version. If they have an X.x cdrom, they select X.x-updates then upgrade to the current system from there. You could try lobbying Guy Maor (gently, please). But there has to be a date beyond even updates for an old release get purged. We want the mirror space for more current stuff, and with $4 CDs nobody has much of an excuse for missing upgrades any more. Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:14:05 -0700 (PDT), George Bonser wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Mike Schmitz wrote: myself in alignment with David Cinege and Paul Wade. I do not think that _any_ decision should be made on business, marketing, or political reasons, Whatever the cost, ONLY quality of the code and distribution should be considered. I believe that only harm can come from asking any government's sanction of the project, and money can only corrupt it. I apologize if my opinion is not shared by the majority, but it is mine, and all are free to disagree. Oh, horsehockey. Bandwidth does not grow on trees. Neither do systems. It is impossible to plant a seed and grow a system, it takes money. If you can show that you are a non-profit organization, it provides incentive for people to assist your project IF they find it worthy of their support. That's not a universal concensus. To me it's a turn off. A financial break for a community to help itself is not a bad idea. I suspect you are more than a little paranoid. Anarchy only works when all parties think exactly alike which is oxymoronic to the term. That's foolish. Anarchy does work, because no man is ever given the upper hand in a conflict soley by his position. I'm not a socialistI've owned my own (non-corporate) business for over 8 years. I know what expenses are, about marketing, and about making money, and I have made money using Debian. I'd be a hipocrit if I said other people could not...except for this creature we call Debian. When I first started playing with deb, Debian was an idea. It was a bunch of files from a bunch of people, that made using linux better. The distribution existed by the sheer will of the people who built it. The ethic was that all work was done for free and released under GNU. A donation to 'debian' meant supporting the deveopers directly in some way, offering bandwidth, and contributing to the project. There were no direct bills to pay. The project could never fold unless the developers decided to just walk away. Then Debian suddenly had to get orginized, and become 'something'. It's now a company. It now wants money. It now has expensives. It now determines what is and is not 'official'. I don't like it. It was fine the way it was before. Sure, you can DREAM that such a system can flourish without money but if it becomes large enough (which Debian has), it starts to require real resources that only money can buy. Sure, you might be able to get the telephone company to donate a T1 ... if they can deduct it. Are you high? - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: changes in a release without any numbers changing
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: From: Dave Cinege [EMAIL PROTECTED] No I'm talking about the same revs conatining differences. Something that the developers are conviently ignoring. I already admitted it was a mistake today, and we won't do it again. I think the person who made the change understands that now. Yes, you did and some other people didn't see that and continued to say that it never happened. You said that the changes will be made and I believe that will happen. As far as incorporation and donations go, I see no problem with that. I don't expect to see any 'Debian telethons' taking over my TV in the near future or get any telephone calls from fundraising contractors. :) I agree that retail placement is good for Debian. Encouraging multiple vendors to produce copies of identical CD images won't further that goal because there will be more stale leftover inventory. I noticed that one of the Official CD vendors had to cut the price when another vendor jumped into it. Maybe some of them will produce the next version solely as a way to draw traffic to the website where they sell Redhat, Caldera, etc. at a better profit margin. I don't have those other distributions for sale. I sell Debian because I like it and tried to meet a need. As I said before, the priority should be on painless upgrades from any installed version. Perhaps a hack/patch to have dselect always do certain things first (like install an upgraded version of itself and restart) would be important. Along the same lines, it could also check for a package in base (Debian-upgrade.x.x.x.deb?) which takes care of those critical 'first steps'. This would help a lot with changes like the recent tetex packages and the upcoming libc6. A possible quicker implementation of this would be a runme.x.x.x.sh script which is clearly mentioned in the topmost readme. It would primarily use some invocations of dpkg to get things updated before dselect is invoked. One reason I favor this approach is that it could be written to smooth out the upgrades from 1.1.x and higher to any current release. If this could be accomplished, the value of an older CD (especially one that came with a book) would be much higher. I have seriously considered mass production of a really cheap Debian Starter CD. Most users can get the upgrades and any source they care to play with via ftp. They might be content to replace the CD 2 or 3 times a year. People who want all the updates on CD or want all the source don't mind paying more for CD-R products. I got tired of carrying a 'mirror' computer and ethernet hardware with me to do installs and upgrades. Soon, I hope, there will be enough Debian users to warrant a monthly CD press run of binary/source stable/unstable. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Proxy Server and firewall?
Hello, What is the best software for connect my LAN to the Internet?. Current i have Socks, but i would like to know others. Any suggestion will be very pleased. Thanks is advance. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
install problem: aic7xxx encountered spurious IRQ / aborting command due to timeout
On Friday, 08 Aug 1997 10:54:01 +0200, I wrote the following mail: = BEGIN OF MAIL == hi everybody, my name is Dieter and I'm having problems to install the debian Linux distribution. My hardware: - Mobo Shuttle HOT-419 (VLB with Opti chipset), AMD486/133, 32 MB RAM - Adaptec AHA2842 (IRQ 11) - ATI Graphics Turbo (Mach32 mit 2 MB VRAM) - NE2000 compatiple card IRQ 15 IO 0x300 - IO card, 2x par (IRQ/IO as usual), 4x ser (COM1-COM2 IRQ/IO as usual, COM3 IRQ 10 IO as usual, COM4 IRQ 12 IO 0x2F0) This hardware is successfully running Linux 1.2.13 (Slakware 2.3) since 2 years. During the last 2 weeks I installed Caldera Open Linux Standard 1.1 and Slakware 3.2 (both employ kernel 2.0.29) without any problems. That means: the 'all-purpose' boot diskettes started Linux successfully. Now I tried the debian distribution 1.2 (with kernel 2.0.27) I found on my Infomagic Linux Developer's Resource (6-CD-set inluding Slakware 3.2, RedHat 4.1). I made the RESCUE floppy with 'dd if=rsc1440.bin of=/dev/fd0H1440 bs=512' (tried it with several diskettes and even with rsc1440r.bin) and got in every case the following boot messages: summary: aic7xxx detected and initialization messages -- aic7xxx: encountered spurious interrupt some other messages related to probing other hardware follows -- scanning channel A for devices -- aborting command due to timeout -- pid 0, scsi 0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 -- test unit ready 00 00 00 00 -- kernel panic: scsi 0 BRKADRINT, error 0x1, seqaddr 0x0 I suspect, that the composition of the debian kernel is somewhat different than those of Caldera and Slakware, but I have no idea in what matter. I hope, that some of the debian gurus can give me some help. TIA and have a nice day. Dieter = END OF MAIL == Some people suggested to get the newest Debian release (1.3.1), InfoMagic's issue of Debian (1.2.8) was broken (by InfoMagic). Okay, I did so. Next round with Original Debian 1.3.1. Guess, what? Same results as with 1.3.1. Is 1.3.1 broken, too (by Debian)? In addition I get the same result on a second PC with the following components: - Mobo GigaByte GA586ATS (PCI with Triton), AMD K5/100, 64 MB RAM - Adaptec AHA2940 - S3 Trio64 with 2 MB RAM - NE2000 compatiple card IRQ 15 IO 0x300 - IO card, 2x par (IRQ/IO as usual), 4x ser (COM1-COM2 IRQ/IO as usual, COM3 IRQ 10 IO as usual, COM4 IRQ 12 IO 0x2F0) Both PCs are successfully running Linux 1.2.13 (Slakware 2.3) since 2 years. During the last 3 weeks I installed Caldera Open Linux Standard 1.1 and Slakware 3.2 (both employ kernel 2.0.29) and Suse Linux 5.0 (kernel 2.0.30) without any problems. That means: the 'all-purpose' boot diskettes of these distributions started Linux successfully. And I think, that the hardware described above is everything else than exotic. In my personal view the claims, that Debian is a superior distribution, do not fullfill. I would like to hear some opions from the debian officials. TIA and have a nice day. Dieter -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: incorporation
Rick Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 3) Liability. The corporation is legally a person. If someone got the bright idea to sue Debian (for whatever reason, including frivolous), individuals would be liable without incorporation. Incorporated, individual liability extends only to acts of that individual. Just wondering: If that was a concern wouldn't have been better to have incorperated in a country where the legal climate is less aggressive? It would proably have been more expensive though.. Jan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
Dave Cinege: A donation to 'debian' meant supporting the deveopers directly in some way, offering bandwidth, and contributing to the project. There were no direct bills to pay. The project could never fold unless the developers decided to just walk away. Then Debian suddenly had to get orginized, and become 'something'. It's now a company. It now wants money. It now has expensives. It now determines what is and is not 'official'. I don't like it. It was fine the way it was before. Yeah, it was fine to have a screwed up 1.0 version on InfoMagic, it was fine to see the last two versions on InfoMagic sets come out crippled and severely crippled respectively. NOT. And InfoMagic was the only way I could get a Debian distribution until recently. It seems to me that the people currently `venting their shit' on Debian cannot imagine what is good for an ordinary user like me who isn't able to download an entire distribution from the net and doesn't care about the latest minute patches. I appreciate a _stable_ distribution on CD-ROM that is easily available in my next door book shop. Therefore, the Official Debian CDRom is the best thing that recently happened to the Debian project. If Official Debian CD's will become widely available, that is a good thing as well, and if a new revision numbering scheme can help, it is in my interest and in the interest of the large group of users who want _access_ to a high quality distribution. Eric Meijer -- E.L. Meijer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | tel. office +31 40 2472189 Eindhoven Univ. of Technology | tel. lab. +31 40 2475032 Lab. for Catalysis and Inorg. Chem. (TAK) | tel. fax+31 40 2455054 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
D-Link ethernet and Pioneer CD-ROM
Hi This is a request for help not a contribution to the version numbering dispute... Just got a new PC and wanted to install Linux on the second disk. I succeded in installing the base system after disabling the Pioneer ATAPI CD (DR-A24X) since I realised it was PnP. Then I wanted to connect to an ethernet using a D-Link Ethn. Bulk PCI BNC/UTP card (sorry that's all the info I have). The card is not recognised during boot up. Now my question is: do I have a fair chance of making this work and if so how? or should I replace the ethernet card and the CD-ROM. I was thinking along the lines of starting Win95, obtain relevant info (if possible) and pass this info to linux using the lilo boot prompt options. Karsten -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Building Your own Boot Disks
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Craig Sanders wrote: imo, everyone should compile their own kernel - the boot/rescue floppy is good to install a system with, but a linux box really should have a kernel compiled especially for itwith only the drivers that it needs compiled in (or as modules), no more and no less. Often true, but it is better to use kernel-package which builds a Debian kernel-image package for this. yes. ...compile their own kernel includes the possibility of using make-kpkg. in fact, earlier in my message that is exactly what i said i had done. my point was that if you want to get the most out of your linux box then compiling your own kernel is essential. it doesn't really matter whether that is done with the old make zlilo ; make modules ; make modules_install (or whatever) sequence of commands, or whether it's done with kernel-package. i happen to think that kernel-package is much more convenient. some people think otherwise. big deal, it doesn't matter which way it's done. One great reason is that you can build these packages on a machine that has all the tools and compiles fast. The resulting .deb file is easily installed with dpkg and will take care or making the hard disk boot the new kernel (while preserving the previous one) and creating a boot floppy. yes, kernel-package is a great tool. craig -- craig sanders networking consultant Available for casual or contract temporary autonomous zone system administration tasks. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:13:22 +0200 (MET DST), E.L. Meijer \(Eric\) wrote: Dave Cinege: A donation to 'debian' meant supporting the deveopers directly in some way, offering bandwidth, and contributing to the project. There were no direct bills to pay. The project could never fold unless the developers decided to just walk away. Then Debian suddenly had to get orginized, and become 'something'. It's now a company. It now wants money. It now has expensives. It now determines what is and is not 'official'. I don't like it. It was fine the way it was before. Yeah, it was fine to have a screwed up 1.0 version on InfoMagic, it was fine to see the last two versions on InfoMagic sets come out crippled and severely crippled respectively. NOT. And InfoMagic was the only way I could get a Debian distribution until recently. And the simple existence of the corp did not fix it! It seems to me that the people currently `venting their shit' on Debian cannot imagine what is good for an ordinary user like me who isn't able to download an entire distribution from the net and doesn't care about the latest minute patches. I appreciate a _stable_ distribution on CD-ROM that is easily available in my next door book shop. Therefore, the Official Debian CDRom is the best thing that recently happened to the Debian project. Bull. It puts other at odds with the 'officials' in the project. There is no reason someone couldn't have come up with this 'stable' release CD on their own. There is no reseason Bruce could not have done it, and offered it in his personal capacity. If Official Debian CD's will become widely available, that is a good thing as well, and if a new revision numbering scheme can help, it is in my interest and in the interest of the large group of users who want _access_ to a high quality distribution. If you buy a CD that says 1.3 on it you can't be sure what you're getting. Was that the 1.3 that had a bug with XX peice of hardware and couldn't install. Hiding things from the users is typical Microsoft, large company, marketing *tatics* They don't care if it runs, just that you buy the product. That's not right. Certainly not for a (supposedly) free software project. Listen, getting CD's out is a good thing. But: A) It is not right for Debian Inc, to have an official part in it. B) The distribution should not change to suite the needs of cookie cutters. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
Dave Cinege: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:13:22 +0200 (MET DST), E.L. Meijer \(Eric\) wrote: Dave Cinege: A donation to 'debian' meant supporting the deveopers directly in some way, offering bandwidth, and contributing to the project. There were no direct bills to pay. The project could never fold unless the developers decided to just walk away. Then Debian suddenly had to get orginized, and become 'something'. It's now a company. It now wants money. It now has expensives. It now determines what is and is not 'official'. I don't like it. It was fine the way it was before. Yeah, it was fine to have a screwed up 1.0 version on InfoMagic, it was fine to see the last two versions on InfoMagic sets come out crippled and severely crippled respectively. NOT. And InfoMagic was the only way I could get a Debian distribution until recently. And the simple existence of the corp did not fix it! It seems to me that the people currently `venting their shit' on Debian cannot imagine what is good for an ordinary user like me who isn't able to download an entire distribution from the net and doesn't care about the latest minute patches. I appreciate a _stable_ distribution on CD-ROM that is easily available in my next door book shop. Therefore, the Official Debian CDRom is the best thing that recently happened to the Debian project. Bull. It puts other at odds with the 'officials' in the project. There is no reason someone couldn't have come up with this 'stable' release CD on their own. There is no reseason Bruce could not have done it, and offered it in his personal capacity. Bull to you. I know Debian. A lot of people know Debian. Fewer people know Bruce. One day, Bruce will leave the project (thanks for the great work, Bruce!), but Debian will remain. If I see an official Debian CD I know that it is made by someone who knows what (s)he is doing, and who tested it. What do I know if I see Debian CD `by Bruce Perens', unless I know who this is? The point is not that `anybody' couldn't have done it, the point is some kind of certification for which you don't need to know the people who did it personally. And whatever you say, the Official 1.3.1 CD was the best Debian CD I ever had. If Official Debian CD's will become widely available, that is a good thing as well, and if a new revision numbering scheme can help, it is in my interest and in the interest of the large group of users who want _access_ to a high quality distribution. If you buy a CD that says 1.3 on it you can't be sure what you're getting. Was that the 1.3 that had a bug with XX peice of hardware and couldn't install. You can never be sure what you're getting since bugs that show up in the future cannot be known. That's why we need a well tested Official Debian CD. Hiding things from the users is typical Microsoft, large company, marketing *tatics* They don't care if it runs, just that you buy the product. That's not right. Certainly not for a (supposedly) free software project. Listen, getting CD's out is a good thing. But: A) It is not right for Debian Inc, to have an official part in it. It _is_ a good thing, because Debian is going to get the bad name or the credits for a CD. You and I know that InfoMagic screwed up several times. Most people will conclude that Debian doesn't work if they bought the recent InfoMagic set. Now Debian can refer people to the official set, and take responsibility and credit for it. B) The distribution should not change to suite the needs of cookie cutters. The distribution hasn't changed to suit the needs of any cookie cutter. Only the naming scheme. This is a minor detail. Eric Meijer -- E.L. Meijer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | tel. office +31 40 2472189 Eindhoven Univ. of Technology | tel. lab. +31 40 2475032 Lab. for Catalysis and Inorg. Chem. (TAK) | tel. fax+31 40 2455054 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
George Bonser writes: I think the idea is, you buy the 1.3 CDROM and pick up the revisions from the net. ... In this way, if a distribution goes defunct and is replaced, only the X.x-updates directory needs to be left around for people that might want to update a disk that is a couple of revs behind current. Excellent idea. Just add a script for the user to run to automatically update their installed packages and you've got a really slick system. However, it was my understanding that the change from x.y.z to x.y revision z was purely cosmetic. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Debian only like larger businesses
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: Paul Wade: Hey, users who are listening - Debian 1.3.3 is out but it's still called 1.3.1 so nobody who buys those CD sets will feel inferior? Why am I taking so much guff from you when I work for free as a volunteer and you take my work and make money off of it? Or are you only annoying me as a hobby, Mr. President of Greenbush Corporation? Sorry, Bruce, but this is baloney! I have private email from you on both occasions when the archive changed without a release number change. The first time you said it was bad release engineering and would look into it. The second time you finally admitted that other CD vendors objected to changing the release number. What it boils down to is that you let the vendors tell you how to run the project! You could have had the decency to warn me in advance to get out of the CD business because Debian was more interested in catering to vendors who simply sell it along with other Linux distributions. I take your work (and all the other volunteers work) and lose money off of it. What is really happening is that SPI is 'covering the ass' of certain vendors. The credibility of Debian is already damaged by your actions and will only get worse if you continue in this direction. The users are smart enough to know figure out which product meets their needs. If those vendors can't sell older 1.3.1 sets to people who know the difference, they need to go back to school. few months behind when it gets to the user. You and your small CD-R business help a little, and you serve a useful niche market, but you are not first in my priorities and you are far from essential to Debian's survival. You are way out of line. I only sell Debian and I only use Debian in my 'small' business. I'm beginning to think your resignation is what will be essential to Debian's survival, but maybe a public apology to *all* the Debian users is enough. You owe it to them because you have compromised the integrity of the Debian project. What you are saying is that Debian prefers relationships with larger businesses. That makes no sense for a free software organization. Here is a list of what is updated (so far) in bo-updates. This is what you would lose if you bought a mass-market CD rather than the Paul Wade version. Please feel free to use this change-log (and its successors) in your advertising. Please let the mass market business take care of itself, and please don't get in its way. Absolutely ridiculous! You are the one that is tampering with the market. I can't believe that your actions are appropriate for something that is called GNU/Linux. I think the Free Software Foundation is lots more careful in its dealings with commercial entities. If Debian is truly a non-profit organization, then why not put the articles of incorporation on the website immediately. It just isn't ethical to ask for donations without showing the public how the organization is controlled, how officers and directors are elected and exactly what the outlook is for changing the leadership should problems arise. It's time to face the music. Your Official CD program will not work. After all, if I press 2000 sets tomorrow will you hold the release numbers for another month? Do you have to check in with multiple vendors and get their 'blessing' before 1.3.next is released? If you keep this up, another Debian group will emerge and it will all become very counter-productive. I think your marketing ideas are a bit grandoise at this time. Debian is not yet an easy replacement for the average Windows user. There is a lot of work to be done before it will sell in big numbers. In the meantime, every revision is important to help get it there. Sincerely, Paul Wade -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On 21 Aug 1997 23:28:31 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George Bonser writes: I think the idea is, you buy the 1.3 CDROM and pick up the revisions from the net. ... In this way, if a distribution goes defunct and is replaced, only the X.x-updates directory needs to be left around for people that might want to update a disk that is a couple of revs behind current. Excellent idea. Just add a script for the user to run to automatically update their installed packages and you've got a really slick system. If you have a net connection. If you are only working from one machine. Then it doesn't matter. If I have to s=do several machines I order an current rev CD-R. The problem is I can;t be sure exactly what I will be getting. Is it 1.3.1 R2 from this week, or from last week. What about next week? However, it was my understanding that the change from x.y.z to x.y revision z was purely cosmetic. Apparently not. - http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 908-541-4214 http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ Linux Router Project -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Using Linux with Win95
Hi there. I am a VERY new user, and need some help with Linux. I have got a copy of the Debian Linux from a friend, and can boot up from the disk fine. Before I install it though, there are a few things that I really would like to ask. 1. Will it overwrite my execisting boot sector? 2. How can I get my computer to boot up to Win95 as default, but to Linux if I want to? I need Win95 to boot up first, as my familiy needs to use it, and they don't know what to do if it does not boot to Windows. 3. Can I access my DOS side from Linux? 4. Where can I get the documentation from? I think that I will really need it ;-) I hope that someone will be able to help me! --- Your's Sincerely, Alistair Phillips PO Box 43933 Fish Hoek 7975 South Africa Tel/Fax:(2721) 785 5265 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Forking debian-user?
Certainly as a longstanding kibitzer on this list, it is none of my business. However, I would like nevertheless to point out the following, relevent to recent suggestions that the list splinter into two or more offspring: Over approximately a 12 hour period today, I received debian-user digests containing approximately the following balance of postings: Discussion of debian administrative matters, etc.: 60 posts. Help requests, and responses: 44 posts. The discussions have been lively and interesting, by the way. Flames were (needlessly) thrown. Parenthetically, I am still confused by the fact that Debian has it's own way with kernel sources and headers, as well as sources for packaged modules. I still use Debian; and I still want a system upon which I can install unix programs of many kinds. I do appreciate, and have come to rely upon the ease of installing Debian packages; I would appreciate help learning how to become less dependent. [Meaning not that I might want personal advice, but rather that I would appreciate the availability of documentation and a system conforming to some global standards (isn't that pretty much what *nix is about?)]. The Debian watchword has been from early on, a system that can be painlessly upgraded. At least twice, this watchword has failed---when a.out moved over to ELF, and when libc5 moved over to libc6. In between these big changes, have been an endless stream of smaller changes. The friday snapshot is a good idea. It's all none of my business. Alan Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Updating with dselect
Paul mentioned this and I have been wondering -- what is the best procedure to update from an ftp via dselect? How do I upgrade a package I already have installed? I have only seen an add and a remove option. Where is 'upgrade'? I am now a month old Debian user and I still am impressed. Great job guys, keep it up. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Dave Cinege wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:12:59 -0400 (EDT), Dale Scheetz wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Dave Cinege wrote: It's not about .1 R1, or Asub1, to the 2nd power of 4. It's about something that is frozen, actully staying frozen. If the disc says 1.3.1, I should be able crccheck the whole damn thing against the master 1.3.1 dist, and have it come up clean. Right NOW you can't even do that, Not true! 1.3.1 is a fixed object, available as an Official image. It hasn't changed since its release, and, to the best of my knowledge, will not ever change. Bruce Perens: The next version of the system will be called Debian 1.3.1 Revision 1. People who make long-term products based on Debian requested that we not change the version number of the system if we were only making a few bug fixes. For example, X windows was rebuilt because Richard Stallman requested that XDM display Debian GNU/Linux rather than just Debian Linux. It's worthwhile to insert that change, but not worthwhile to make everyone think they need to upgrade their systems because of it. Thus, we will not bump the release number to 1.3.2 for minor changes. So? What's the problem. Instead of calling the next release 1.3.2 it will be called 1.3.1 R1. No less distinct, but in a form the retailers will, hopefully, not baulk at. Your complaints seem to be based on a misunderstanding. Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_-_- _-_-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (904) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Updating with dselect
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Shaleh wrote: Paul mentioned this and I have been wondering -- what is the best procedure to update from an ftp via dselect? How do I upgrade a package I already have installed? I have only seen an add and a remove option. Where is 'upgrade'? I am now a month old Debian user and I still am impressed. Great job guys, keep it up. When you change your dselect access method to ftp, the next step is to update the list of available packages. Dselect will get it from the ftp site. After that, the select packages screen will show any installed packages that have newer versions and the default action will be to upgrade them. When you choose the install option, the new packages will be downloaded and installed as replacements to the earlier versions. +--+ + Paul Wade Greenbush Technologies Corporation + + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.greenbush.com/ + +--+ + http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Now shipping version 1.3.? + +--+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: LILO, yet again
In your email to me, Paul Lange, you wrote: Well, my disk is 545megs big, but I don't have a CMOS type BIOS. It's an older Phoenix BIOS. I had to define the hard drive by cylinders, sectors, and heads. There were two other fields that I didn't know how to modify, those being Pre and LZ, both of which I put 0 as values. Grr... In /etc/lilo.conf, right above the line that starts delay=, add the line linear save, and rerun lilo. See if that helps. Tim -- (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] / (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.buoy.com/~tps ** Disclaimer: My views/comments/beliefs, as strange as they are, are my own.** -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: A little consideration, please?
On Aug 21, Bruce Perens wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen, I am going to drive tomorrow to Santa Cruz (from Berkeley) to participate in a meeting for Debian. I told you about the common ABI for all i386 Unix systems a week or so ago, and a lot of you thought it was a good idea. That's what it is about. I am driving about 100 (non-deductable) miles each way and am giving up one of my vacation days for this, just as I am giving up vacation days to speak at the IN Conference in Germany. I gave up vacation days to speak at Linux Expo, too. I put in a lot for Debian. In return, I would like you to: ^ I would like to thank you for the work you did and will do for Debian. I don't know Debian for a too long time now, but every day it got better, never worse. Certainly, it is mainly because Debian has so many volunteers, one better than the other. Sometimes I can't believe, that you all do this for free, sometimes I can't believe, that other people try to make money out of their dull software (not to speak of this on big os company :) For the Debian community, I hope that there will be only few such cases where the position of a volunteer is mixed up with the person. I think, that your requests below are common sense of human being, but I also see that you get hit more often than any other involved in Debian. I'm very impressed by your way to handle such personal insults calmly. As I can't express my other thoughts in foreign language, the mail interrupts here. Sorry. Thank you again and good luck with your plans. 1. Please don't use profanity on the newsgroups. 2. Please don't start with the assumption that I am a corporate robber baron whenever you argue about Debian policy. 3. Please try to accept that policy decisions have already been discussed by the people who do the work, and that we may have put some thought into this. We welcome your input, but please don't assume we are idiots. There is a limited time in which I can continue to put in this much work for Debian. Eventually, we'll decide to have a baby, and I will probably be too busy to be project leader. I would prefer to stay with the project in some capacity until that time. You can help by not being so difficult to deal with. Thanks Bruce -- Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it? Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god. Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, J. Paul Reed wrote: I would say for those of us who don't know how (or don't want to) mess with it, the BEST thing you can do at this point is install 2.0.29 and leave it at that. Every Linux production server I work on is 2.0.29. Not one single 2.0.30 in the bunch... what's wrong with 2.0.30? am i missing something? thanks -adam -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Bruce Perens wrote: You could try lobbying Guy Maor (gently, please). But there has to be a date beyond even updates for an old release get purged. We want the mirror space for more current stuff, and with $4 CDs nobody has much of an excuse for missing upgrades any more. What are the implications of these words Bruce? I hope Debian stays dedicated to providing an easy upgrade path across several major releases. Just because it is now _possible_ to upgrade about monthly from a cd doesn't mean that everybody who doesn't (for whatever reason) needs an excuse for that. I think that I just misread the intention of your words, but I still wish to express my concern about this issue. Joost -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, J. Paul Reed wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Dave Wreski wrote: When is 31 going to be finished? There are already pre-31 patches out.. all the way up to 5. They are up to pre-7 now. Looks like there's still a few problems to be worked out, to be sure we have a nice stable kernel. The best thing you can do at this point is to install pre-7 on all your machines, and test it heavily, to be sure there are no bugs. And be sure to report the ones you do find, so we're sure to have a stable one.. I would say for those of us who don't know how (or don't want to) mess with it, the BEST thing you can do at this point is install 2.0.29 and leave it at that. Every Linux production server I work on is 2.0.29. Not one single 2.0.30 in the bunch... I believe IP Masquerading was fixed in 2.0.30.. so I must run at least .30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Must Be Nice.....
World, I've held off as long as I canI WISH my systems were running SO SMOOTHLY that I had time to bash the efforts of the developers, maintainers, moderators and users of Debian - who to the best of my knowledge work for free. I would be willing to bet if you analyzed the monetary compensation they receive...Let's seesay 25hrs. a week @ $diddly.00 = $ZIP.00 !! The idea of incorporation, UNFORTUNATELY, is a wise one. Think about if. If it was your fuzzies being sued because your code crashed some vital system...a limited liability and a few Ivy League lawyers provides a nice level of comfort for one who DONATES their time. As for the dark tone of government involvement in Debian if it incorporatesI hate to tell you this but the keyboard you are banging on now is and will only more so become, a conduit of information monitored, regulated or at least watched by the Dreaded Big Brother . Gotta go, my systems aren't perfect, Yet! Tim -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Linux kernel 2.0.31????
J. Paul Reed wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Dave Wreski wrote: When is 31 going to be finished? There are already pre-31 patches out.. all the way up to 5. They are up to pre-7 now. Looks like there's still a few problems to be worked out, to be sure we have a nice stable kernel. The best thing you can do at this point is to install pre-7 on all your machines, and test it heavily, to be sure there are no bugs. And be sure to report the ones you do find, so we're sure to have a stable one.. I would say for those of us who don't know how (or don't want to) mess with it, the BEST thing you can do at this point is install 2.0.29 and leave it at that. Every Linux production server I work on is 2.0.29. Not one single 2.0.30 in the bunch... Out of curiosity what's so evil about 2.0.30? --Chris -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
Dave Cinege: You just don't get it. Debian is not supposed to be a company!!! Debian is supposed to be the efforts of it's developers! When you say Debian Inc should do xx, you're not saying the devs should do it but the few (one?) guys directly in charge of Debian Inc. This is the last email I'll spend on this issue. Of course debian is the result of the efforts of it's developpers. But it is a joint effort. It is coordinated, and people divide tasks among them. The `guys directly in charge of Debian Inc.' are democratically chosen by the developpers. Debian is not a company in which the leadership decides what the developpers do, the developpers assign the `leadership' certain tasks. After some time, the `leaders' are re-elected, or not. Pure anarchism is rarely a good system to get anything done. Anyone can stand up and make a CD. That's OK. In the same way that the distribution is put together, an official CD is put together. It is important that this CD is known to originate from the debian developpers, as some kind of (limited) certification to the outside world that it is a well tested CD. B) The distribution should not change to suite the needs of cookie cutters. The distribution hasn't changed to suit the needs of any cookie cutter. Only the naming scheme. This is a minor detail. This is why there have ben how many changes to 1.3.1, and it's still called 1.3.1? That is an error you can criticize. It was not done on purpose, and therefore you cannot claim it is a severe flaw in the policy. Does the word frozen mean anything to you? Ice cubes. Eric Meijer -- E.L. Meijer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | tel. office +31 40 2472189 Eindhoven Univ. of Technology | tel. lab. +31 40 2475032 Lab. for Catalysis and Inorg. Chem. (TAK) | tel. fax+31 40 2455054 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Using Linux with Win95
On Aug 20, Alistair Phillips wrote: Hi there. I am a VERY new user, and need some help with Linux. I have got a copy of the Debian Linux from a friend, and can boot up from the disk fine. Before I install it though, there are a few things that I really would like to ask. Welcome! it is very good that you asked, before you grabaged your hard disk or so. So you will certainly enjoy the power of Debian. 1.Will it overwrite my execisting boot sector? It will, if it is allowed to. You can specify how to boot Linux: a) From DOS with the program loadlin. Your boot sector will not be touched. b) From the boot sector on the partition, if you have another boot manager (then you have to install LILO on the partition where linux is on, for example /dev/hda3, and point your boot manager to it). c) Or you can use LILO to boot Linux or Win95, as you like. This is the way I recommend, because it works just fine for me. Put Lilo on the hard disk in the boot sector (e.g. first ide drive is /dev/hda), and configure it to boot either linux (e.g. from /dev/hda3) or windoze (e.g from /dev/hda1). The numbers appended are the numbers of the partitons. 2.How can I get my computer to boot up to Win95 as default, but to Linux if I want to? I need Win95 to boot up first, as my familiy needs to use it, and they don't know what to do if it does not boot to Windows. You can configure LILO to boot normally win95, so yu have to enter linux or sim. at boot time to get linux. The other way round, you can boot linux normally and win95 only if told. 3.Can I access my DOS side from Linux? You can mount partitions n various formats (CD's, OS/2, Un*x,..., Windows), and access them like linux files - this is really powerful. For diskettes, I would recommend mtools, a package for direct MS DOS floppy disk access (then you have commands like mcopy, mdir,...) You can even install dosemu, the dos emulator, and start your favourite dos program (although dosemu is not complete by now), and a few win3.1 programs will run under linux with wine, the windows emulator. 4.Where can I get the documentation from? I think that I will really need it ;-) If you install Debian, there will be an horrible amount of documentation under /usr/doc/, especially under /usr/doc/HOWTO are many. There are lots of Megs on the net, and you are invited to complain on this list for every little problem you encounter installing and running Debian GNU/Linux! I hope that someone will be able to help me! Hope to hear from you soon (as a lucky debian user)! Ciao, Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god. Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
New Debian Derived OS! [was] Re: Show me the money
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Michael Hill wrote: Just wanted to say that I'm glad to be able to contribute the $5, delighted to have access to the developers, generally pleased with the spelling on the list, and although I may not agree with it, I'll defend Dave's right to be bounced. I'd like to direct my user-vote in favour of good behaviour since I for one don't begrudge Bruce the baby. Mike I think Mike is way out of line here. Debian should have never gotten into the baby business in the first place. If you think naming a distribution is a headache, try naming a baby! Its especially difficult in cross-cultural marriages (like mine). My wife is pregnant (again) and this time its my turn to come up with a name. Seriously though. It amazes me how people emmigrate to the US, improve their quality of life 1000 fold, only to spout off BS like this guy. I think we should bounce Mike off the list -- this mister user-vote-boy. If you're so pleased then why don't you take your show on the road? Huh, Mike? As a matter of fact, do you even have any children of your own? Who the heck are you to give us comments like the above, based soley on you own pleasantness? I love my country (America) and definitely believe in freedom of speach, advertising, commercialism, capitolism, copyrights, patents, and all of the things that make America great. But I draw the line here. I think we should: 1) Get off Bruce's back -- I certainly don't always agree with him (or any one person), but having a baby will provide him and Valerie with a hell of a tax break. 2) Inform Dave that anarchy went out with Punk Rock in the 80's (and was only then popular with European teens.) 3) Buy a CD from Paul, who (like too many of my _real_ countrymen), thinks Debian (or someone) owes him a living. 4) Make more babies -- its a lot more fun than downloading megabytes of nonsense from unnamed idividuals (Mike) about things that do nothing bad, and have the potential to do enourmous good (like having babies, getting tax write offs, etc.) In the future, Mike user-vote Hill, try to keep the language civil, lest I get all riled up and give you a serious taunting! ;-) Sheesh! -- Until we extend the circle of our compassion to all living things, we will not ourselves find peace -Albert Schweitzer Richard G. Roberto -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Anarchy! Yes, Anarchy!
On Aug 21, George Bonser wrote: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Mike Schmitz wrote: myself in alignment with David Cinege and Paul Wade. I do not think that _any_ decision should be made on business, marketing, or political reasons, Whatever the cost, ONLY quality of the code and distribution should be considered. I believe that only harm can come from asking any government's sanction of the project, and money can only corrupt it. I apologize if my opinion is not shared by the majority, but it is mine, and all are free to disagree. Oh, horsehockey. Bandwidth does not grow on trees. Neither do systems. It is impossible to plant a seed and grow a system, it takes money. If you can show that you are a non-profit organization, it provides incentive for people to assist your project IF they find it worthy of their support. A financial break for a community to help itself is not a bad idea. I suspect you are more than a little paranoid. Anarchy only works when all parties think exactly alike which is oxymoronic to the term. Sure, you can DREAM that such a system can flourish without money but if it becomes large enough (which Debian has), it starts to require real resources that only money can buy. Sure, you might be able to get the telephone company to donate a T1 ... if they can deduct it. And we are talking about a few bucks per user (Amount of debian treasury divided by number of users), and not about thousands and millions of cash. Got it? Someone has to pay everytime, and no one is willing to do it forever with his own money, or do you? Marcus a little annoyed about false understanding of autonomy -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god. Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: New Debian Derived OS! [was] Re: Show me the money
I keep forgetting the scope of this list. For those who didn't know, I was being silly. I'm not outraged by Mike's post (or the possibility of a derived work as a result of his confrontational attitude ;-) ) My wife IS pregnant though, and I do have to come up with a name. :-) Cheers, -- Until we extend the circle of our compassion to all living things, we will not ourselves find peace -Albert Schweitzer Richard G. Roberto -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: FTP server problems (I think)
You are using wu-ftp? The trouble is that the ls command in /home/ftp/bin is not statically linked, but depends on a library which should be in /home/ftp/lib. You most likely have the wrong version of the library. Check like this: ldd /home/ftp/bin/ls My situation is:- elm# ldd /home/ftp/bin/ls libc.so.5 = /lib/libc.so.5 (0x4000a000) elm# ls -l /home/ftp/lib total 583 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root21375 Aug 7 1996 ld-linux.so.1* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Jun 27 16:20 libc.so.5 - libc.so.5.4.23* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 570288 Jun 27 16:20 libc.so.5.4.23* I would appreciate it if you would send me the output of ls -lR /home/ftp before you fix it, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Lindsay =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lindsay Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perth, Western Australia voice +61 8 9316 2486modem +61 8 9364-9832 32S, 116E =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I managed to get FTPD up and running. I've created a ftp user, to accept anonymous login, and made a directory to in /home/ftp then I put pub in that directory. When I type ls, it doesn't display anything. How would I fix this? Note, I've tried this as another user with files in their home directory and it does the same thing. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
First let me say Bruce, you've done a great job in the past, and I realize it's been no easy task. You've taken a lot of uncalled for flack recently, mostly due to misconceptions and pointless debates. When the time comes, I hope you decide to continue as the project leader. On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Dave Cinege wrote: On 21 Aug 1997 23:28:31 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George Bonser writes: I think the idea is, you buy the 1.3 CDROM and pick up the revisions from the net. ... In this way, if a distribution goes defunct and is replaced, only the X.x-updates directory needs to be left around for people that might want to update a disk that is a couple of revs behind current. Excellent idea. Just add a script for the user to run to automatically update their installed packages and you've got a really slick system. If you have a net connection. If you are only working from one machine. Then it doesn't matter. If I have to s=do several machines I order an current rev CD-R. The problem is I can;t be sure exactly what I will be getting. Is it 1.3.1 R2 from this week, or from last week. What about next week? a) If you don't have a net connection, what difference does it make if you have r 1 or 2 or 3. They are only minor bug fixes only (I'm not sure if major bug fixes constitue a new distribution number). b) If you are so concerned as to what release you get, get it from a cd-r seller. I have a feeling major cd makers will release 2.0, and never 2.0 r1. c) Packages within the release don't change. A set of packages is left for testing, and once we have enough packages, a release is made and the remaining packages are left till the next release. The actual implementation is being discussed elsewhere, and once something is decided upon, I'm sure everyone will be informed. If someone has _actual proof_ of this statement being wrong, please correct me. However, it was my understanding that the change from x.y.z to x.y revision z was purely cosmetic. Apparently not. Then I don't think you understand the change. I didn't understand it myself at first, but Bruce informed me of the method of revisions, and this has since been posted on the list in a clearer way. Why are you so upset about this? If it's that big of a deal, go make your own distribution. Everything seems to be working fine with this one. If you aren't going to contribute to debian, please don't make it your goal to disrupt what we have done. I guess the analogy I'm trying to make is: when you get a birthday cake with white icing, do you throw a fit because it's not chocolate? Be happy that someone made you a cake, in fact you should be thanking them for it. There are times when a criticism will help us grow. I don't think this is one of those times. Thanks to Bruce and all the other developers who have put together this wonderful distribution. Brandon -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Installing Linux
You should use a dos-running utility called FIPS, it's use is to resize your partition space on a partitionned drive, you *MUST* however, defrag the partition prior to doing this. You should find it on your CD or on the NET. Karell Ste-Marie M.I.S. C.T.I. Datacom Inc. -- From: Davison Avery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Installing Linux Date: Monday, January 27, 1997 3:26 PM I was wondering if there was a way to install Linux without formatting my hard-drive and destorying the existing partitions. I currently use Win95, but want to try Linux out. As such, I would like to have Linux as the dominant OS, but wish to be able to switch to Win95 if I ever had to access some of the data and apps I have. I know that LILO exists, but all of the messages I've read so far seem to imply that I will have to format my drive. I really, really don't want to do this. Any other solutions short of buying Partition Magic? I have a 2.1 gig C: and a 1.1 gig D:. Win95 resides on C:. Thanx, -Davison P.S. I haven't got enough money to buy a Zip to back my stuff up. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Installing Linux
There is a utility called FIPS that should be on the CD-ROM, on you should be able to find it on the Net. It will allow you (after a COMPLETE defrag) to resize your partition. (On your drive C for instance). I'm sure that you can find some documentation on the net for the software, it runs under DOS. Karell Ste-Marie M.I.S. C.T.I. Datacom Inc. -- From: Davison Avery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Installing Linux Date: Monday, January 27, 1997 3:26 PM I was wondering if there was a way to install Linux without formatting my hard-drive and destorying the existing partitions. I currently use Win95, but want to try Linux out. As such, I would like to have Linux as the dominant OS, but wish to be able to switch to Win95 if I ever had to access some of the data and apps I have. I know that LILO exists, but all of the messages I've read so far seem to imply that I will have to format my drive. I really, really don't want to do this. Any other solutions short of buying Partition Magic? I have a 2.1 gig C: and a 1.1 gig D:. Win95 resides on C:. Thanx, -Davison P.S. I haven't got enough money to buy a Zip to back my stuff up. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Using Linux with Win95
On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Alistair Phillips wrote: Hi there. I am a VERY new user, and need some help with Linux. I have got a copy of the Debian Linux from a friend, and can boot up from the disk fine. Before I install it though, there are a few things that I really would like to ask. Welcome. 1.Will it overwrite my execisting boot sector? It can if you ask it. There is a program called lilo that can be installed on your boot sector. 2.How can I get my computer to boot up to Win95 as default, but to Linux if I want to? I need Win95 to boot up first, as my familiy needs to use it, and they don't know what to do if it does not boot to Windows. This is a simple lilo configuration. Alternatively, you can use a boot disk to access linux. Finally there is a program called loadlin. This can be run from dos in order to start linux. 3.Can I access my DOS side from Linux? Absolutely. Some government security professionals were giving a talk, and the commented how they loved linux because they can access all kinds of filesystems. This is done with the mount command, and can be automated with an entry in the /etc/fstab file. 4.Where can I get the documentation from? I think that I will really need it ;-) LDP - http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/ Debian - http://www.debian.org (follow the link that says documentation) I hope that someone will be able to help me! I hope this helps, Brandon -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Show me the money Re: Donations to Debian
Manoj Srivastava wrote: Dave If the orginization were not invloded in promotions, and makings Dave CD-Rom, they could get back to simply working towards the Dave orginazation of a quality product. Thats their purpose as far Dave as I'm concerned, not worring about if CD makers can keep their Dave stock up to date. Then you are naive. The best product (Betamax,apple) can die out if absolutely no effort is made to promote it. And it is not as if we decided on a technically inferior naming scheme. Actually, there was a third standard - Video 2000 by Philips. Here at philips, it is said to be even better than Betamax. Then why doesn't the world know about it? Well, it is rumored here that when the first video devices were marketed there were only few titles available. Philips refused to support the production of x-rated videos, while for Sony's standard a plethora of porn was soon available. The porn was exactly what made the videos sell, because seriously, who would pay $4000 just to be able to watch Bambi (the Disney one ;-) at home? Gradually more regular titles became available and over time the x-rated segment became marginal. When marketprices dropped, only the VHS machines were profitable, because of the volume advantage gained from the early days. The point I am trying to make is mostly to tell some nice folklore. But hey, don't you folks see the analogy * porn -- ms apps * ? If Debian could provide an easy way to run WinWord6 and similar stuff (I'm thinking of the willows libraries) then it would be taken _very_ seriously by many business-people. Just look at all the Office software that Microsoft sold and that they're not willing to support anymore. As I see it, the apps are the single most important reason for people to use Microsoft Windows. Some may think this is all too immoral, but I think that if Debian gets a bigger corporate userbase, then there will also be many more people employed to work with debian. A lot of them will make fine developers or otherwise practical supporters of the free Debian distribution. Joost -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Using Linux with Win95
Hi there. I am a VERY new user, and need some help with Linux. I have got a copy of the Debian Linux from a friend, and can boot up from the disk fine. Before I install it though, there are a few things that I really would like to ask. 1.Will it overwrite my execisting boot sector? Only installing LILO (linux loader) in the bootsector will overwrite it. 2.How can I get my computer to boot up to Win95 as default, but to Linux if I want to? I need Win95 to boot up first, as my familiy needs to use it, and they don't know what to do if it does not boot to Windows. You have several options with that. For the first time install I would recommend NOT installing LILO but create a boot floppy (it is an option in installation menu). To boot linux you would have to insert this floppy and reboot the computer. You could change it to more convenient LOADLIN menu, installing LILO to your MBR, or installing LILO on your linux root partition and placing some other boot loader (bootmenu is a good choice I myself is using) on your MBR. 3.Can I access my DOS side from Linux? Sure. 4.Where can I get the documentation from? I think that I will really need it ;-) You may find Debian-specific documentation on http://www.debian.org For general Linux information, check out http://sunsite.unc.edu/LDP/ (linux documentation project site) Alex Y. I hope that someone will be able to help me! --- Your's Sincerely, Alistair Phillips PO Box 43933 Fish Hoek 7975 South Africa Tel/Fax:(2721) 785 5265 -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Debian only like larger businesses
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Paul Wade wrote: It's time to face the music. Your Official CD program will not work. After all, if I press 2000 sets tomorrow will you hold the release numbers for another month? Do you have to check in with multiple vendors and get their 'blessing' before 1.3.next is released? If you keep this up, another Debian group will emerge and it will all become very counter-productive. The official CD worked for me, it helped me FINALLY get a CD from a vendor that actually worked the first time around, unlike the last two mistakes from InfoMagic. In fact, now I have 2 of them, the 1.3.0 one from LSL, and the 1.3.1 one from CheapBytes. If you want to start a different Debian-based group and engineer the releases your way, GO AHEAD! I think I echo the sentiment of most of the developers when I say that I'm sick of someone who hasn't put an ounce of work into adding anything into Debian complaining about something this minor. There is nothing stopping you from making an updated CD, the tools even exist to merge all of bo-updates into the main tree and generate new package files. Do that if you wish, but in any case, GO AWAY! - -- |In order to live freely and happily, Scott K. Ellis | you must sacrifice boredom. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | It is not always an easy sacrifice. |-- Illusions -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM/2doKCk2fENdzpVAQFyvgP/fAxFo9jhh/w4N7unKivE1v9dvoD++z59 ec5pTP/JXpSQyoNvs1Cz6Nc5yRUrIj3lJ9+ELU1PChC2DaNhtCbad3EDQxFun3qA sXEHRVfRaP1PiyHxgYE/T8d32tQLbt+jSyG96iuoJDceG9YqCcnF6znxnsj4dBrV 16BsfIY71kc= =1zwd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
