Re: ccing

[Paul Johnson]

Chris Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:19 -0700
> "David Haughton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The usual reply to this is submit a bug report.  If it came 
>>> from a list, the reply should go to the list.  If you want to 
>>> reply to the author, that should take manual intervention.  
>>> In the meantime, switch to something that does it right, mutt for one.
>> 
>> Most email clients will act this way (i.e. Thunderbird, Pine, Outlook*)
>> because the person that sent the email to the list is in the "From"
>> field and I don't see the "Reply-To" field being set by the listserv.
>
> Most email clients I've encounterred (mutt, sylpheed, balsa, evolution,
> etc.) don't act this way.  Outlook is MS crap and is broken in lots of
> other ways too.  Pine is old; is it still even being developed?

I'm not sure that it is.  I'd be annoyed as hell if I were a Washington
State taxpayer or a tuition-paying WSU student, WSU changing the license
seems to have been 100% effective at preventing community support.

> Thunderbird, OTOH, I thought *did* handle this correctly, and is broken
> if it doesn't (and they'd probably like to know about it).

They know it's broken.  I don't know if they care or if they're trying
to fix it, however.

-- 
Paul Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux.  You can find a worse OS, but it costs more.


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Re: ccing

[Paul Johnson]

Chris Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yeah, googling with an additional qualitifer of "site:lists.debian.org"
> or something like that.  The disadvantage is that you don't get
> the ability to search on date ranges and stuff like that, which
> using the search engine provided by Debian for the mailing lists
> gives you.

OK, then search Google Groups in muc.lists.debian.user (or one of the
other dozen newsgroups mirroring this list) for what you're looking
for...

-- 
Paul Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux.  You can find a worse OS, but it costs more.


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Re: ccing

[Paul Johnson]

Paul Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I never check.  I Google instead.  I tried checking list archives a long
> time ago and found it terribly inefficient.  Is there some other
> efficient way to search lists.debian.org that I don't know about?

Google.  Use the site: argument.

-- 
Paul Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux.  You can find a worse OS, but it costs more.


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Re: ccing

[Paul Johnson]

Cheryl Homiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> 1. I have no intention of changing my email system.

Then you have no intention of fixing the problem, which is entirely on
your end.

> 3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.

I question that assertion.  Had you done so, then you would have already
seen this entire conversation to completion several dozen times over.

-- 
Paul Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux.  You can find a worse OS, but it costs more.


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Re: ccing

[Paul Johnson]

Cheryl Homiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I agree that it's irritating to get duplicate messages. However, it's
> often not that the person deliberately did a cc. At least in Pine, I
> often get messages from this list where when I go to reply i'm asked if
> I want to reply to all recipients.

Reply To All is not the option you're looking for.  You want reply to
list.  Sorry, Pine doesn't have this, you'll need an actually maintained
MUA to get basic functionality like reply-to-list.  I strongly recommend
mutt (the de-facto standard on the list and fairly easy to transition to
From pine) or gnus (it's everything and a bag of chips, but you *really*
have to like emacs to use it).

Other gains you'll get by switching to a better MUA:

1) Proper MIME handling
2) GPG support
3) You can open your email before you leave work for a long weekend on
   Friday afternoon, and your inbox will open before you get back on
   Tuesday[1]

[1] The last straw for me years and years ago back when I used to still
use pine: I start pine after not being home for a week.  45MB of mail
took pine about 11 hours to load, then it ran unusably slow.  Took mutt
about 10 seconds and it just worked.

-- 
Paul Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux.  You can find a worse OS, but it costs more.


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Re: Compile kernel on sid -> dependency problem on woody

[Pablo Santiago Blum de Aguiar]

On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 03:08, Laurent CARON wrote:
> Pablo Santiago Blum de Aguiar wrote:
> 
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I compiled a new kernel (2.4.18) for a woody box (a 233MHz pc) on my sid
> >box (an Athlon 800MHz pc). On sid, I did an 'apt-get install
> >kernel-source-2.4.26', configured the kernel for my needs, ran
> >'make-kpkg clean' and used the following command do compile it:
> >
> >[/usr/src/linux] - 0
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] # MAKEFLAGS="CC=gcc-2.95" make-kpkg \
> >  
> >
> >>--append_to_version  -586mmx --revision=rev.01 \
> >>--initrd kernel_image modules_image
> >>
> >>
> >
> >what gives me a 2.9M file kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx_rev.02_i386.deb. It
> >makes me to think that I have a sucessful compiled kernel.
> >
> >Ok, but when trying to install the image on the woody box this is what I
> >get:
> >
> >[~/kernel] - 0
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] # dpkg --configure kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx
> >dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of
> >kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx:
> > kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx depends on initrd-tools (>= 0.1.48);
> >however:
> >  Version of initrd-tools on system is 0.1.32woody.3.
> >dpkg: error processing kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx (--configure):
> > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
> >Errors were encountered while processing:
> > kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx
> >
> >Further info:
> >
> >initrd-tools version on the sid box:
> >[/usr/src/linux] - 0
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] # apt-cache show initrd-tools | grep -i version
> >Version: 0.1.70
> >
> >Please could you please give me some advice or show me what I'm doing
> >wrong?
> >
> >Regards,
> >  
> >
> don't use initrd

Thanks for the reply. Not sure if I understand what you suggest me. I
tryed:

[/usr/src/linux] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # MAKEFLAGS="CC=gcc-2.95" make-kpkg \
> --append_to_version -586mmx --revision=rev.02 \
> kernel_image modules_image

and still get the same dependency problem.

Regards,
-- 
 .''`.  Pablo Aguiar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :  Proud Debian GNU/Linux Admin and User
`. `'`  GNU/Linux User #346447 - PC #238975
  `-  Debian is being developed openly in the spirit of Linux and GNU.

 Sat, Jun 12 2004, 03:31:13 GMT - 0300


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Re: Compile kernel on sid -> dependency problem on woody

[Laurent CARON]

Pablo Santiago Blum de Aguiar wrote:
Hi all,
I compiled a new kernel (2.4.18) for a woody box (a 233MHz pc) on my sid
box (an Athlon 800MHz pc). On sid, I did an 'apt-get install
kernel-source-2.4.26', configured the kernel for my needs, ran
'make-kpkg clean' and used the following command do compile it:
[/usr/src/linux] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # MAKEFLAGS="CC=gcc-2.95" make-kpkg \
 

--append_to_version  -586mmx --revision=rev.01 \
--initrd kernel_image modules_image
   

what gives me a 2.9M file kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx_rev.02_i386.deb. It
makes me to think that I have a sucessful compiled kernel.
Ok, but when trying to install the image on the woody box this is what I
get:
[~/kernel] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # dpkg --configure kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of
kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx:
kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx depends on initrd-tools (>= 0.1.48);
however:
 Version of initrd-tools on system is 0.1.32woody.3.
dpkg: error processing kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Errors were encountered while processing:
kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx
Further info:
initrd-tools version on the sid box:
[/usr/src/linux] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # apt-cache show initrd-tools | grep -i version
Version: 0.1.70
Please could you please give me some advice or show me what I'm doing
wrong?
Regards,
 

don't use initrd
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Compile kernel on sid -> dependency problem on woody

[Pablo Santiago Blum de Aguiar]

Hi all,

I compiled a new kernel (2.4.18) for a woody box (a 233MHz pc) on my sid
box (an Athlon 800MHz pc). On sid, I did an 'apt-get install
kernel-source-2.4.26', configured the kernel for my needs, ran
'make-kpkg clean' and used the following command do compile it:

[/usr/src/linux] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # MAKEFLAGS="CC=gcc-2.95" make-kpkg \
> --append_to_version  -586mmx --revision=rev.01 \
> --initrd kernel_image modules_image

what gives me a 2.9M file kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx_rev.02_i386.deb. It
makes me to think that I have a sucessful compiled kernel.

Ok, but when trying to install the image on the woody box this is what I
get:

[~/kernel] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # dpkg --configure kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of
kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx:
 kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx depends on initrd-tools (>= 0.1.48);
however:
  Version of initrd-tools on system is 0.1.32woody.3.
dpkg: error processing kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx (--configure):
 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Errors were encountered while processing:
 kernel-image-2.4.18-586mmx

Further info:

initrd-tools version on the sid box:
[/usr/src/linux] - 0
[EMAIL PROTECTED] # apt-cache show initrd-tools | grep -i version
Version: 0.1.70

Please could you please give me some advice or show me what I'm doing
wrong?

Regards,
-- 
 .''`.  Pablo Aguiar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :  Proud Debian GNU/Linux Admin and User
`. `'`  GNU/Linux User #346447 - PC #238975
  `-  Debian is produced by almost a thousand active developers.

   Sat, Jun 12 2004, 02:47:48 GMT - 0300


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Re: funny bug causing powerdown on install

[s. keeling]

Incoming from xyroth:
> For some reason, when attempting to install debian (sarge) on one of my
> k6-2/400 machines, it appears to install mostly, and then suddenly powers
> the machine down before completing.
> 
> As you can imagine, this makes it somewhat tricky trying to track down the
> problem.
> 
> It is also not debian specific, as I have tried redhat9, fedora 2 and
> mandrake 10.0 and they all show the same problem (in different stages of the
> install).
> 
> Surprisingly, tom's root boot shows no problem at all in booting, leaving it
> all very strange and mysterious.

If there's anything in the BIOS you can turn off or set to more
sensible / generic values, do so.  PnP, mouse, boot sector virus
protection, ...


-- 
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(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
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Re: Why No Sound from Audio CD?

[Steven Yap]

On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 21:31, Ed Sutherland wrote:
> I'm trying to play an audio CD from XMMS. The problem: while the CD is 
> detected and plays, there is no music.

> 
> Anyone have a clue what I'm missing? Thanks.

Did you connect the analogue audio out from your cd drive to your
soundcard's internal CD input?

If not, did you enable the "Read Digital CD Audio" option in XMMS's
AudioCD Reader plugin?

-- 
Steven Yap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[dircha]

Carl Fink wrote:
On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:56:24PM -0500, Kent West wrote:
No need to run a wm at all. I'm not sure how to set it up for all users, 
but for any one user, just set the ~/.xinitrc to have the single line in 
it "mozilla-firefox".
I thought of that, too, as I posted, but what if a popup window
opens?  With no WM it'll have no controls, making it hard to close
and impossible to move.  Also, if someone exits they'll find
themselves sitting at the shell prompt (or display manager prompt)
and not know what to do.
And once you allow popup windows, you need a taskbar (i.e. window list 
button bar).

Errors, especially with javascript, with trying to force _everything_ to 
open in a new tab rather than a new window also I think give need for a 
taskbar.

Now, to add something to the discussion, I'll suggest you use two tools:
- oroborus as your window manager
- fspanel or fbpanel as your taskbar
oroborus doesn't do much more than manage windows; about as minimal as 
you will find that still behaves as a standard window manager and looks 
modern (that is, not ratpoison). No GTK or QT dependencies.

fspanel is a taskbar, and nothing more; it has no GTK or QT 
dependencies. It will work fine if you don't use "virtual" (read: 
multiple) desktops.

If fspanel is too quirky, then try fbpanel.
dircha
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Re: Newbie firewall for Sarge

[Silvan]

> an entry for Firestarter anywhere in the KDE menus (after appropriately
> installing Firestarter).  When I did the same things in Knoppix/Sid, I did
> find the Firestarter entry in the KDE menus.

Um.  Here was the answer to my similar query a bit back.  Some new thing 
(menu-xdg) you have to install to get the menu magic working again:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/2004/05/msg00032.html

-- 
Michael McIntyre     Silvan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek;  registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/


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Why No Sound from Audio CD?

[Ed Sutherland]

I'm trying to play an audio CD from XMMS. The problem: while the CD is 
detected and plays, there is no music.

System sounds can be heard in KDE. The aRTS Builder example files can be 
heard. The OSS and aRTS output is specified in XMMS. Still, no sound.

Anyone have a clue what I'm missing? Thanks.
Ed
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Re: Website creating software

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2004-06-11, S.D.A. penned:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:36:52AM -0600 or thereabouts, Monique Y.
> Mudama wrote:
>> On 2004-06-07, Nick Smith penned:
>> > there is no way im going to design complex image maps or anything
>> > else with lengthy code by hand any more, too much chance for error
>> > and it takes way too long to do it.  i wish wine would pick up the
>> > pace and
>> 
>> Playing devil's advocate here ... when is an imagemap the right
>> solution?
>
> Probably when a client requests it. ;)
>
> Seriously, I don't like them myself, and I'm not overly fond of Flash
> personally, either -- But when a client requests a Flash enabled user
> interface (and many do), I provide it. 'Cause the next developer will,
> and I will lose probably a good paying client.

I hear you, but serious warning flares go up for me when a client tries
to specify implementation rather than functionality.  If they know how
best to implement it, what are they paying me for?  They're paying me
way too much to just hack up a design someone else envisioned.

-- 
monique


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fuuny bug causing powerdown on install

[xyroth]

For some reason, when attempting to install debian (sarge) on one of my
k6-2/400 machines, it appears to install mostly, and then suddenly powers
the machine down before completing.

As you can imagine, this makes it somewhat tricky trying to track down the
problem.

It is also not debian specific, as I have tried redhat9, fedora 2 and
mandrake 10.0 and they all show the same problem (in different stages of the
install).

Surprisingly, tom's root boot shows no problem at all in booting, leaving it
all very strange and mysterious.

Any ideas on how to narrow down the problem would be greatly apreciated, as
otherwise I am left using it as a windows only machine.

regards

xyroth
http://www.xyroth-enterprises.co.uk/

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Griggs;Keith;Norman
FN:xyroth
NICKNAME:xyroth
ORG:xyroth enterprises;research
TITLE:nexialist
NOTE;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:chairman of boston astronomers=0D=0Alinux expert=0D=0Abeowulf cluster experi=
menter=0D=0A
TEL;WORK;VOICE:+44 (0) 1205 368236
TEL;HOME;VOICE:+44 (0) 1205 368236
TEL;CELL;VOICE:07941 835158
ADR;WORK:;;179 woad farm road;boston;lincolnshire;pe21 oef;united kingdom
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:179 woad farm road=0D=0Aboston, lincolnshire pe21 oef=0D=0Aunited kingdom
ADR;HOME:;;179 woad farm road;boston;lincolnshire;pe21 oef;united kingdom
LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:179 woad farm road=0D=0Aboston, lincolnshire pe21 oef=0D=0Aunited kingdom
X-WAB-GENDER:2
URL:http://www.xyroth-enterprises.co.uk/xyroth.htm
URL:http://www.xyroth-enterprises.co.uk/
BDAY:19691118
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
REV:20040612T022506Z
END:VCARD

Re: Newbie firewall for Sarge

[Katipo]

John Fleming wrote:
Anyway, I think I will keep working on getting Firestarter going.  What if
I'm using KDE and open a terminal -window- and then start firestarter - Will
that make the GUI appear??  

As long as you call it up as root, yes.
Regards,
David.
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Re: Newbie firewall for Sarge

[Mike Chandler]

On Friday 11 June 2004 08:34 pm, John Fleming wrote:
> > On Friday 11 June 2004 07:30 pm, John Fleming wrote:
> > > Is there anything analagous to pmfirewall in Sarge (2.6 kernel)?  I
> > > downloaded pmfirewall because I was familiar with it, but it's not
> > > compatible with the 2.6 kernel.  I need something newbie-easy that I
> > > can configure remotely.  Thanks - John
> >
> > Hi,
> > I was pointed to 'firestarter' and it does seem to work well, using sarge
>
> with
>
> > 2.6.6 kernel.
>
> Duh - I almost forgot about Firestarter, and that's what I actually started
> with today!  I'm familiar with it from using it with Fedora.  I just
> installed Sarge, and I'm new to Debian and pretty new to Linux.  I have
> some issues with X and my display, and I don't have Gnome working yet.  I
> do have KDE working (at some stupidly low resolution), but I couldn't find
> an entry for Firestarter anywhere in the KDE menus (after appropriately
> installing Firestarter).  When I did the same things in Knoppix/Sid, I did
> find the Firestarter entry in the KDE menus.
>
> Anyway, I think I will keep working on getting Firestarter going.  What if
> I'm using KDE and open a terminal -window- and then start firestarter -
> Will that make the GUI appear??  I know it doesn't work from the console -
> just says it can't find any screens.
>
> I don't read anything about it having a text mode.  Thanks!  - John

Hi John, first- please don't cc me, I get the list, thanks.
I don't know if the gui for firestarter would work in text mode. If you have 
kde running, then the firestarter gui will work, I guess. Have you tried 
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
to sort out your display?
(You'll need to know ahead of time some information about your hardware.)


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Carl Fink]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:56:24PM -0500, Kent West wrote:

> No need to run a wm at all. I'm not sure how to set it up for all users, 
> but for any one user, just set the ~/.xinitrc to have the single line in 
> it "mozilla-firefox".

I thought of that, too, as I posted, but what if a popup window
opens?  With no WM it'll have no controls, making it hard to close
and impossible to move.  Also, if someone exits they'll find
themselves sitting at the shell prompt (or display manager prompt)
and not know what to do.

BTW, to the original poster:  have you considered the new Dillo
versus FireFox?  The new version (0.8) isn't backported to Woody yet,
but it should be straightforward to do and dillo is lighter and
faster than any Mozilla derivative (though FireFox is plenty fast).

Have you thought about the problem of cookies? If you allow them,
they're going to carry over from person to person.  Perhaps you could
add a line to Xsession that deletes the cookie file and then uses
touch to create a new one?  And have the box auto-reboot every hour
or two, or whenever the user exits the browser?  (The rebooting would
also help if someone downloads and sets up a keyboard logger,
particularly if you boot the box off a non-writable medium like CD,
which I highly recommend for a kiosk application.)
-- 
Carl Fink   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum



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Re: Newbie firewall for Sarge

[John Fleming]

> On Friday 11 June 2004 07:30 pm, John Fleming wrote:
> > Is there anything analagous to pmfirewall in Sarge (2.6 kernel)?  I
> > downloaded pmfirewall because I was familiar with it, but it's not
> > compatible with the 2.6 kernel.  I need something newbie-easy that I can
> > configure remotely.  Thanks - John
>
> Hi,
> I was pointed to 'firestarter' and it does seem to work well, using sarge
with
> 2.6.6 kernel.

Duh - I almost forgot about Firestarter, and that's what I actually started
with today!  I'm familiar with it from using it with Fedora.  I just
installed Sarge, and I'm new to Debian and pretty new to Linux.  I have some
issues with X and my display, and I don't have Gnome working yet.  I do have
KDE working (at some stupidly low resolution), but I couldn't find an entry
for Firestarter anywhere in the KDE menus (after appropriately installing
Firestarter).  When I did the same things in Knoppix/Sid, I did find the
Firestarter entry in the KDE menus.

Anyway, I think I will keep working on getting Firestarter going.  What if
I'm using KDE and open a terminal -window- and then start firestarter - Will
that make the GUI appear??  I know it doesn't work from the console - just
says it can't find any screens.

I don't read anything about it having a text mode.  Thanks!  - John



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Re: ccing

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Paul Scott:
> s. keeling wrote:
> 
> >No offense meant, really.  But have you ever tried mutt?  
> 
> I would use mutt before pine any time but I use Thunderbird because of 
> its 3 panes displaying all of my mailboxes and the headers from the 
> selected mailbox or folder and the current message simultaneously.  I 

I tell mutt to show me a few index lines at the top of the pager
window.  I also tell it about my mailboxes.  Anytime I want to see
headers, I type "h" (it toggles back abnd forth).

In other words, I don't need to watch all my mailboxes all the time;
mutt's doing that for me.  If new mail lands in any of them, the next
time I type "c" to change to another folder, mutt offers to go to the
next one in the list that contains new mail.  Hit spacebar and it
offers to go to the next one after that instead.

> does for me.  I am quite open to ideas here.

set hdrs=yes

folder-hook . save-hook . =%u
folder-hook IN.debian-usersave-hook . =debian-user

mailboxes =IN.debian-user =IN.linux-laptop ...

lists debian-user debian-security ...

subscribe debian-user debian-laptop ...

fcc-hook (debian-user|debian-laptop|spamcop\.net) '/dev/null'

set edit_headers

set pager_index_lines=8

...


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Re: a pair of questions

[Mike Chandler]

On Friday 11 June 2004 06:39 pm, MillTek wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> I got the Nvidia driver to work with Sarge (from the latest installer).
> It went precisely as Nvidia said.
>
> Here's a link to the installer I used;
>
> http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2004/99
>
>
> Don't have a card reader.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> Mike Chandler wrote:
> >On Friday 11 June 2004 04:54 pm, Christian C. Benito wrote:
> >>all-
> >>
> >>1) Has anyone been successful in making nvidia drivers
> >>work with the 2.6 kernel? I keep trying, and it keeps
> >>breaking my machine.
> >>
> >>2) I just got a usb card reader. I built a new 2.4.26
> >>kernel that has all the relevant modules and drivers.
> >>I can see that it is in the usb filesystem, but I'm not
> >>sure how to mount the cards... I'd love to find something
> >>that just makes the cards show up on my desktop when I
> >>plug them into the reader. Does anyone have any advice?
> >>
> >>Christian
> >
> >I went through this a while back, this seemed to help:
> >http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/answers.php?action=viewarticle&art
> >id=115

I think this MillTek post was meant for Christian, not me, but thanks anyway.


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Kent West]

James W. Thompson, II wrote:
I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
best Window Manager for the job. Here is the biggest catch, the system
is old.
+ Pentium 233MHz
+ 32MB RAM (Going to try and upgrade it to 64MB if we can find a stick)
+ 2 GB Hard Drive
+ 3Com 3c509 NIC
+ ATI 3D Rage Graphics
+ CD-ROM and Floppy
Debian installed with no problems as a minimal install but I want to
have some kind of idea of where I am going. To be honest, I have never
configured a system for quite this purpose. I have two accounts on the
machine: root and user. I am wanting to use a graphical login and
would like for FireFox to launch automatically on loading into X. Do I
even need a Window Manager really since I just want FireFox to load
and run and nothing else will need to be there.
 

No need to run a wm at all. I'm not sure how to set it up for all users, 
but for any one user, just set the ~/.xinitrc to have the single line in 
it "mozilla-firefox".

--
Kent
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Re: Newbie firewall for Sarge

[Mike Chandler]

On Friday 11 June 2004 07:30 pm, John Fleming wrote:
> Is there anything analagous to pmfirewall in Sarge (2.6 kernel)?  I
> downloaded pmfirewall because I was familiar with it, but it's not
> compatible with the 2.6 kernel.  I need something newbie-easy that I can
> configure remotely.  Thanks - John

Hi, 
I was pointed to 'firestarter' and it does seem to work well, using sarge with 
2.6.6 kernel.


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Re: a pair of questions

[Jerome R. Acks]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 04:54:14PM -0700, Christian C. Benito wrote:
> all-
> 
> 1) Has anyone been successful in making nvidia drivers
> work with the 2.6 kernel? I keep trying, and it keeps
> breaking my machine.

Yes, both with self-compiled and Debian stock kernels, but I have not
tried it with nvidia's installer. I've always installed the
nvidia-kernel-source package and followed the instructions in
/usr/share/doc/README.Debian.

> 
> 2) I just got a usb card reader. I built a new 2.4.26
> kernel that has all the relevant modules and drivers.
> I can see that it is in the usb filesystem, but I'm not
> sure how to mount the cards... I'd love to find something
> that just makes the cards show up on my desktop when I
> plug them into the reader. Does anyone have any advice?

Load the relevent modules. Then plug in the card reader and check to see
how the device is reported in /var/log/messages.

If the card reader is plugged in when you boot, discover should list the
hardware and associated device in thed boot post and log the information in 
syslog and messages. 

If relevent modules are loaded, devfs or udev should create the device
in /dev.

KDE device icons at least give you popup menu to mount and unmount the
dedia devices.

-- 
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Newbie firewall for Sarge

[John Fleming]

Is there anything analagous to pmfirewall in Sarge (2.6 kernel)?  I
downloaded pmfirewall because I was familiar with it, but it's not
compatible with the 2.6 kernel.  I need something newbie-easy that I can
configure remotely.  Thanks - John



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Lucent WaveLAN(orinoco) and 2.6.1

[Alex Derkach]

Hello, I am having a problem getting my Orinoco gold working under
debian. I have patched my kernel with shmoo's orinoco monitor patch and
have set up my /etc/pcmcia/* according to online docs for my laptop
(Presario 2100). When I am in the location of a known accesspoint I see
this in /var/logs/kern.log

--SNIP-
un 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: cs: IO port probe 0xff40-0xff7f: clean.
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: cs: IO port probe 0xfc00-0xfcff: clean.
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: cs: IO port probe 0xfd00-0xfdff: clean.
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: cs: memory probe 0xffeff000-0xffef:
clean.
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: Station identity 001f:0001:0007:001c
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: Looks like a Lucent/Agere firmware
version 7.28
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: Ad-hoc demo mode supported
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode
supported
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: WEP supported, 104-bit key
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: MAC address 00:02:2D:8B:4B:57
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: Station name "HERMES I"
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: ready
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: index 0x01: Vcc 5.0, irq 7, io
0xfc00-0xfc3f
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: New link status: Connected (0001)
Jun 11 12:36:59 relex kernel: eth1: New link status: Disconnected (0002)
--SNIP--

-- 
lynx -dump www.infiltrated.net/wtf | 
grep "+-" | 
sed 's/\\//g;s/\// /g;s/\&//;s/-/ /g' | 
awk '{print $2,$3,$4,$5}' |
sed 's/ //g'


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Re: Website creating software

[Jacob S.]

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 06:55:34 +0530
"Sridhar M.A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 01:08:49PM -0500, Jacob S. wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:36:52 -0600
>> "Monique Y. Mudama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 2004-06-07, Nick Smith penned:
>> > > there is no way im going to design complex image maps or
>> > > anything else with lengthy code by hand any more, too much
>> > > chance for error and it takes way too long to do it.  i wish
>> > > wine would pick up the pace and
>> > 
>> > Playing devil's advocate here ... when is an imagemap the right
>> > solution?
>> 
>> I was going to be a little easier; why not use GIMP to create the
>> map?(Right click on an open image, Filters - Web - Image Map.)
>> 
> imaptool is one simple program to get the image maps. A more full
> featured program is kimagemapeditor.

imaptool looks good, but it's kind of hard not being able to see where
you've already defined image maps - how do you make sure you don't
overlap or leave an area uncovered. I leave a gimp window open at all
times for editing images anyway, plus I like their format better.

Jacob


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Re: a pair of questions

[MillTek]

Hi Mike,
I got the Nvidia driver to work with Sarge (from the latest installer).  
It went precisely as Nvidia said.

Here's a link to the installer I used;
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2004/99
Don't have a card reader.

Jim
Mike Chandler wrote:
On Friday 11 June 2004 04:54 pm, Christian C. Benito wrote:
 

all-
1) Has anyone been successful in making nvidia drivers
work with the 2.6 kernel? I keep trying, and it keeps
breaking my machine.
2) I just got a usb card reader. I built a new 2.4.26
kernel that has all the relevant modules and drivers.
I can see that it is in the usb filesystem, but I'm not
sure how to mount the cards... I'd love to find something
that just makes the cards show up on my desktop when I
plug them into the reader. Does anyone have any advice?
Christian
   

I went through this a while back, this seemed to help: 
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/answers.php?action=viewarticle&artid=115

 


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Re: Website creating software

[Sridhar M.A.]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 01:08:49PM -0500, Jacob S. wrote:
   > On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:36:52 -0600
   > "Monique Y. Mudama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   > 
   > > On 2004-06-07, Nick Smith penned:
   > > > there is no way im going to design complex image maps or anything
   > > > else with lengthy code by hand any more, too much chance for error
   > > > and it takes way too long to do it.  i wish wine would pick up the
   > > > pace and
   > > 
   > > Playing devil's advocate here ... when is an imagemap the right
   > > solution?
   > 
   > I was going to be a little easier; why not use GIMP to create the map?
   > (Right click on an open image, Filters - Web - Image Map.)
   > 
imaptool is one simple program to get the image maps. A more full
featured program is kimagemapeditor.

Regards,

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We fight only when there is no other choice.  We prefer the ways of
peaceful contact.
-- Kirk, "Spectre of the Gun", stardate 4385.3


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Re: Console only box?

[Alan Shutko]

Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Ok, let's take a non-trivial case.  http://www.slashdot.org/

Actually, I read slashdot with lynx more than any other browser these
days.  Including comments.  Now, those webboards like
http://www.tivocommunity.com are much more difficult to read in Lynx
than slashdot.

-- 
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - I am the rocks.
SOCCER PLAYERS have better ball control.


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Re: Using the cp command.

[alex]

CW Harris wrote:
On Thu, Jun 10, 2004 at 10:21:18AM -0400, alex wrote:
 

I'm trying to copy the contents of one partition to another with:
   cp -afv  (partition a)/*  (partition b)/
Normally, the command works fine except when (partition b) already 
contains a large number of directories and files that are duplicates of 
those in (partition a) . 

The command works but each duplicate requires permission  to be 
overwritten so it's a tedious process, clicking on 'y' for each 
duplicate being copied.
   

What version of cp are you using?  I cannot duplicate this behavior
here.  Are you sure you don't have an "-i" set?  Are you using /bin/cp
or an alias?
cp (coreutils) 5.0.91  [here]
you might check out "--reply=yes" option (man cp)
 

After updating  my cp, I found that "info cp" provides a bit more 
information
about "--reply=___"  than is found in "man cp".   I  then ran :

#   cp -afv --reply=yes  /mnt/hda1 /*  /mnt/hda2/
It worked perfectly.hands off, all the way
I used it on a friend's computer to make an updated backup
of WindowsXP on hda2 for him with a KNOPPIX CD.
hda1 and hda2 were mounted before doing the cp.

Thanks Chris---alex
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Re: OT wordprocessing anyone?

[Brad Sims]

On Friday 11 June 2004 7:58 am, Matthias Czapla wrote:
> I think if you're not willing to learn LaTeX or troff commands you
> don't have many options besides OpenOffice.org.

Hrm, Abiword, Koffice are options, Kile is an option if you
like LaTeX but despise Lyx,. 

Give Scribus a try. 
-- 
 'Basically what you're saying is that God wants you to
  make "Lynx Friendly" web pages.'  -- Peter da Silva


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Re: Console only box?

[Micha Feigin]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 03:17:35PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Cheryl Homiak wrote:
> > I've actually found very few sites I "can't read" in lynx; I don't find
> > it "useless" at all. You do have to figure out which links to enter on,
> > but it most certainly does handle frames.
> 
> Ok, let's take a non-trivial case.  http://www.slashdot.org/
> 

You may also want to take a look at elinks. Takes care of slashdot
quite nicely (although the results of lynx aren't that bad either).

> :)
> 
> -- 
>  Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
>PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
> ---+-



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Re: Warning: Sid upgrade loses most KDE Styles

[Adam Aube]

Adam Aube wrote:

> Did an apt-get upgrade today, and almost all of the KDE Styles
> disappeared.

> The only KDE-related package that was upgraded was libqt3c102-mt

Pinning to the previous version of libqt3c102-mt (3:3.2.3-2) and forcing a
downgrade fixes the problem.

Adam


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Re: a pair of questions

[Mike Chandler]

On Friday 11 June 2004 04:54 pm, Christian C. Benito wrote:
> all-
>
> 1) Has anyone been successful in making nvidia drivers
> work with the 2.6 kernel? I keep trying, and it keeps
> breaking my machine.
>
> 2) I just got a usb card reader. I built a new 2.4.26
> kernel that has all the relevant modules and drivers.
> I can see that it is in the usb filesystem, but I'm not
> sure how to mount the cards... I'd love to find something
> that just makes the cards show up on my desktop when I
> plug them into the reader. Does anyone have any advice?
>
> Christian
I went through this a while back, this seemed to help: 
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/answers.php?action=viewarticle&artid=115


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a pair of questions

[Christian C. Benito]

all-

1) Has anyone been successful in making nvidia drivers
work with the 2.6 kernel? I keep trying, and it keeps
breaking my machine.

2) I just got a usb card reader. I built a new 2.4.26
kernel that has all the relevant modules and drivers.
I can see that it is in the usb filesystem, but I'm not
sure how to mount the cards... I'd love to find something
that just makes the cards show up on my desktop when I
plug them into the reader. Does anyone have any advice?

Christian


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Warning: Sid upgrade loses most KDE Styles

[Adam Aube]

Did an apt-get upgrade today, and almost all of the KDE Styles disappeared.
The only ones left are CDE, MS Windows 95, Motif, Motif Plus, Platinum, and
SGI. The only KDE-related package that was upgraded was libqt3c102-mt,
which I've already filed a bug against.

Just an alert for those who may not yet have upgraded.

Adam


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Katipo]

James W. Thompson, II writes:
 

I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
best Window Manager for the job.
   

In order to be as compatible with your predominantly menu orientated 
users as possible, in order to facilitate as little potential alienation 
as possible, I would recommend the small footprint and extensive 
configurability of Icewm.
Regards,

David.
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Re: ccing

[Paul Scott]

Chris Metzler wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:22:03 -0700
Paul Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

s. keeling wrote:
   

<>3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.
Everyone forgets from time to time. Many never check. 
   

I never check.  I Google instead.  I tried checking list archives a long
time ago and found it terribly inefficient.  Is there some other 
efficient way to search lists.debian.org that I don't know about?
   

Yeah, googling with an additional qualitifer of "site:lists.debian.org"
or something like that.  The disadvantage is that you don't get
the ability to search on date ranges and stuff like that, which
using the search engine provided by Debian for the mailing lists
gives you. 

Actually I have not been there for a while and had not seen the somewhat 
subtle link:
Our list archives can also be searched 
.  That's why I asked.  I now have 
that page bookmarked and I will start using it.

The advantage is that Google finds a lot of stuff
that the Debian search engine misses.
But either way, do search the lists, even if it seems inefficient for
you, as an act of kindness/respect towards the people you'd like to
help you.
 

That's never been the issue.  I actually have a rather large collection 
of email from each of the Debian lists I am subscribed to and I can 
search those locally with Thunderbird which I do before posting about 
anything I think might have been discussed.

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: browsers: was: Console only box?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Parts of the site I could navigate and parts I couldn't, but the same 
thing happens to me with many sites with links. I said that lynx works for 
me for a lot of things, that it isn't "useless" to me.  I search, find, 
download and shop every day with lynx and, though I certainly would like 
to see javascript implemented, I can do most of what I want to do. Links2 
gets some of the javascript but it chokes in plenty of places for 
various reasons also. If you 
don't find lynx useful for your needs, I have no problem with that; you 
can use whatever you like.  People should use whatever 
they find useful for their needs. As for me, I will continue to use lynx 
and links2 and sometimes edbrowse and elinks and whatever else is out 
there, and as accessibility becomes better 
probably Mozilla, though I'd rather work in console. all of these are 
tools for me for different tasks; it isn't a matter of "proving" what's 
best for everybody. I'm not going to tell a newbie I work with NOT to use 
lynx because it's useless, and especially not a blind person; I'm going to 
present all the tools that are available and explain the strengths and 
weaknesses as I have experienced them and let the person develop his/her 
own preferences.

--
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

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Re: ccing

[Chris Metzler]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:22:03 -0700
Paul Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> s. keeling wrote:
>>> <>3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.
>>> Everyone forgets from time to time. Many never check. 
>
> I never check.  I Google instead.  I tried checking list archives a long
> time ago and found it terribly inefficient.  Is there some other 
> efficient way to search lists.debian.org that I don't know about?

Yeah, googling with an additional qualitifer of "site:lists.debian.org"
or something like that.  The disadvantage is that you don't get
the ability to search on date ranges and stuff like that, which
using the search engine provided by Debian for the mailing lists
gives you.  The advantage is that Google finds a lot of stuff
that the Debian search engine misses.

But either way, do search the lists, even if it seems inefficient for
you, as an act of kindness/respect towards the people you'd like to
help you.

-c


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Re: alsa not working

[Chris Metzler]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:42:52 +0200
John van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 11 June 2004 22:06, Chris Metzler wrote:
>>
>> Your problem is that you are loading OSS modules.  The ALSA modules
>> can't load if the OSS modules are installed.  First, remove the OSS
>> modules from your /etc/modules file, so they'll stop being loaded
>> automatically during boot.  Then, check to see if you have either
>> discover or hotplug installed.  During boot, their scripts run before
>> the ALSA script does, and they'll try to install OSS modules.  If
>> you have either or both of them installed, make sure that the OSS
>> modules are blacklisted in their respective configuration files.
>> The ALSA modules will load appropriately.
> 
> Chris, thanks for this tip.
> It seems a very reasonable hypothesis.
> 
> One question: how do I recognise OSS modules?
> Did you see any in my lsmod output?

Yes.  From your lsmod output:

}Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
[ snip ]
} mpu401 21092   0 (unused)

OSS module to handle the external MIDI port.

} emu10k164780   2

OSS module to handle the audio controller on your soundcard.

} sound  61984   0 [mpu401 emu10k1]

Top-level OSS module.

} soundcore   4420   7 [emu10k1 sound]

Module that provides sound capabilities to the kernel.  You need
this one regardless of whether you're using OSS or ALSA.

} ac97_codec 13784   0 [emu10k1]

OSS module to handle the AC97 codec (mixer, DAC/ADC, etc.) on
your soundcard.

ALSA modules have "snd_" at the beginning.  Someone who has
a Soundblaster Live will have sound modules that look like
this (sorted):

} snd33796   0 [snd-seq-midi snd-emux-synth
snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss 
snd-emu10k1 snd-pcm snd-timer snd-hwdep snd-util-mem snd-ac97-codec snd-rawmidi 
snd-seq-device]
} snd-ac97-codec 48300   0 [snd-emu10k1]
} snd-emu10k175332   1 [snd-emu10k1-synth]
} snd-emu10k1-synth   4860   0 (autoclean) (unused)
} snd-emux-synth 28348   0 (autoclean) [snd-emu10k1-synth]
} snd-hwdep   5248   0 [snd-emu10k1]
} snd-mixer-oss  13104   1 [snd-pcm-oss]
} snd-page-alloc  6228   0 [snd-emu10k1 snd-pcm]
} snd-pcm61892   0 [snd-pcm-oss snd-emu10k1]
} snd-pcm-oss37956   0
} snd-rawmidi14240   0 [snd-seq-midi snd-seq-virmidi snd-emu10k1]
} snd-seq38448   2 [snd-seq-midi snd-emux-synth snd-seq-midi-emul 
snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
} snd-seq-device  4256   0 [snd-seq-midi snd-emu10k1-synth snd-emux-synth 
snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-emu10k1 snd-rawmidi]
} snd-seq-midi4000   0 (autoclean) (unused)
} snd-seq-midi-emul   4944   0 (autoclean) [snd-emux-synth]
} snd-seq-midi-event  3584   0 [snd-seq-midi snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-oss]
} snd-seq-oss29632   0 (unused)
} snd-seq-virmidi 3320   0 (autoclean) [snd-emux-synth]
} snd-timer  15588   0 [snd-seq snd-pcm]
} snd-util-mem1280   0 [snd-emux-synth snd-emu10k1]

(I compile soundcore into my kernel rather than use it as a module,
which is why it's not listed here as well).


> BTW I had installed discover just tonight, to see if it would help;
> obviously I'm better of without it if I want to use ALSA.

Well, I have it installed; you just need to configure it to not load
the OSS modules, which is very straightforward.  Look at the man
pages for discover, discover-modprobe, and discover-modprobe.conf.


> I also use hotplug, which gives me lots of error messages but seems
> to work with USB anyway. It says PCI events are not synthesised, so I
> guess I do not really have to worry about hotplug for the sound card?

I dunno.  I don't really understand hotplug myself.  I've just heard
other people here (typically, people with 2.6 kernels) talk about having
to make sure hotplug didn't load OSS modules.  


> On a related note, isn't it time for the discover program to start 
> installing ALSA over OSS? Or does Debian use ALSA as a default only for 
> the 2.6 kernel?

It's not Debian, but rather the kernel folks, who indicated that OSS
was the default sound infrastructure up through the 2.4 kernels, and
ALSA starting with 2.6.  But I agree that discover either ought to
favor the ALSA modules if they're present too, or should ask about it
in its initial configuration (and maybe that's something that could
be implemented through debconf, dunno).

-c


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[John Hasler]

James W. Thompson, II writes:
> I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
> with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
> best Window Manager for the job.

None.
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: saving iptables rules?

[Adam Aube]

Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Adam Aube wrote:

>> /etc/init.d/iptables save active

> Except that is just a hold over from old versions of the package.  It
> doesn't exist in new installs.

Odd that it would be removed without a suitable replacement provided.

Adam


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Re: Shutdown

[Zenaan Harkness]

fyi

On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 08:06, Alex wrote:
> Thanks all,
> I finally got it. I added to menu /sbin/poweroff and /sbin/reboot and then
> chmod +s /sbin/halt
> 
> I use KDE by default; it work nicely, except I can't find where is the
> Actions section of the menu. I want to put these items there. I did not try
> it with Gnome yet, but don't see any reasons why it would not work.
> 
> Alex.
> 
> > On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 04:12, Patrick Lane wrote:
> > > I am probably coming in the middle of this thread and don't know exactly
> > > what's going on (just re-subscribed to the list). But are you trying to
> > > get a "shutdown" button in gnome without having to log out and do it via
> > > gdm?
> > >
> > > Simply make a new launcher that runs 'gksu poweroff'. When you press it,
> > > you'll get a dialog box asking for password, then it shutsdown for you.
> >
> > How does this solution interact with Gnome session management?
> >
> > Is it like hitting CTRL-ALT-Backspace, and are there any gotcha
> > side effects we might want to know about?
> >
> > tia
> > zem


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Re: saving iptables rules?

[Harshwardhan Shashikant Nagaonkar]

Ralph Crongeyer wrote:
How does one save iptables rules in Debian "Unstable/SID"? I've tried 
iptables-save and get some output with no errors, but when I reboot all 
my rules are gone? Is there a "Debian way" of doing this? Rather than 
write my own startup script I want to find out if there's a standard way 

I came across this same issue when I wanted to save my iptables settings 
a while back. Eventually I ended up setting up my own init script using 
the Debian way (update-rc.d and friends). I can post the script and my 
notes on the list if you want.

HTH,
--
Harshwardhan Nagaonkar
CAEDM Applications
Provo, Utah - 84604
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Re: Console only box?

[Steve Lamb]

Cheryl Homiak wrote:
> I've actually found very few sites I "can't read" in lynx; I don't find
> it "useless" at all. You do have to figure out which links to enter on,
> but it most certainly does handle frames.

Ok, let's take a non-trivial case.  http://www.slashdot.org/

:)

-- 
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Micha Feigin]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:31:01AM -0500, James W. Thompson, II wrote:
> I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
> with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
> best Window Manager for the job. Here is the biggest catch, the system
> is old.
> 
> + Pentium 233MHz
> + 32MB RAM (Going to try and upgrade it to 64MB if we can find a stick)
> + 2 GB Hard Drive
> + 3Com 3c509 NIC
> + ATI 3D Rage Graphics
> + CD-ROM and Floppy
> 
> Debian installed with no problems as a minimal install but I want to
> have some kind of idea of where I am going. To be honest, I have never
> configured a system for quite this purpose. I have two accounts on the
> machine: root and user. I am wanting to use a graphical login and
> would like for FireFox to launch automatically on loading into X. Do I
> even need a Window Manager really since I just want FireFox to load
> and run and nothing else will need to be there.
> 

If its just firefox then I am not sure you need a window manager at
all. The issue may be with barring a user from login out as X will exit
when firefox is closed.

fvwm can be quite light if you do want a window manager.

The memory may be a problem BTW with firefox, using no window manager
may be the solution. Another option which I don't know if firefox
supports and will take more setup is directfb. Will probably be a lot
lighter on memory if it works.

> Any ideas? I searched the archives and didn't find anything real useful.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
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Re: Shutdown

[Patrick Lane]

It's equivalent to typing "poweroff" at a command line. I've been
shutting off this way for a couple months, no side effects that I've
seen/noticed. 

On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 14:40, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 04:12, Patrick Lane wrote:
> > I am probably coming in the middle of this thread and don't know exactly
> > what's going on (just re-subscribed to the list). But are you trying to
> > get a "shutdown" button in gnome without having to log out and do it via
> > gdm?
> > 
> > Simply make a new launcher that runs 'gksu poweroff'. When you press it,
> > you'll get a dialog box asking for password, then it shutsdown for you.
> 
> How does this solution interact with Gnome session management?
> 
> Is it like hitting CTRL-ALT-Backspace, and are there any gotcha
> side effects we might want to know about?
> 
> tia
> zem
> 


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Re: apt-get through a proxy

[Micha Feigin]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:37:14AM -0600, Marvin Gerardo Aguero Salazar wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am currently on an installation that accesses the internet over a
> proxy.  apt-get stopped working for me with this configuration.
> 
> Is there a way to get apt-get working via a proxy?
> 

You can define environment variables http_proxy and ftp_proxy and apt
will use those proxies.

> TIA,
> 
> -Marvin
> 
> 
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Re: installation (problems with cd-rom)

[Adam Aube]

Tomaz Kravcar wrote:

> I am trying to install Debian 3.0r2 (for the first time) on my Gericom
> Webgine notebook. In the first phase i had no problem (install base
> system), then after rebooting, system just didn't recognize cdrom

> I think i am missing ide-scsi.o in /lib/modules/2.2.20-idepci/cdrom

Have you tried it with the 2.4 kernel (use "bf24" at the boot prompt)?

Adam


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Re: OT wordprocessing anyone?

[Micha Feigin]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:28:06AM -0400, richard lyons wrote:
> On Friday 11 June 2004 09:08, Brendan Halpin wrote:
> > Matthias Czapla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 08:03:00AM -0400, richard lyons wrote:
> > > > Do folk here have recommendations about how to do
> > > > wordprocessing?  I am looking for solutions that allow well
> > > > formatted technical documents, with the possibility of using
> > > > well-designed templates in a modern typographic style. 
> [...]
> > Latex with the memoir class (e.g.
> > ) is
> > flexible and aesthetically pleasing. The manual even includes an
> > interesting discussion of the aesthetics of typography.
> >
> > And rather than Lyx, emacs+auctex as already proposed.
> 
> Oh dear, do I have to use emacs?  Over the years, I have tried on 

You can also use (g)vim, its a matter of taste. I find emacs more
powerful and to my liking but to each his own.

Adding latex-preview can also give you some preview of graphics for both
emacs and lyx, sometimes helps.

Under debian there is a package vim-latexsuite which can be a lot of
help doing latex under vim.

> several occasions to use emacs/xemacs and always fled to 
> kate/kedit/nedit/vi/vim/gedit/almost-anywhere-else.  But I shall look 
> at groff once I have finished reading the memoir manual.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> richard
> 
> 
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Re: alsa not working

[John van Spaandonk]

On Friday 11 June 2004 22:06, Chris Metzler wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:51:13 +0200
>
> John van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I searched linuxquestions.org and the last year of this list but
> > could not find anything relevant.
> >
> > Problem:
> > alsa sound not working.
> > alsaconf is not working either. It says no pci cards found, and
> > scanning for legacy ISA cards is not useful, I don't have those.
> > So automatic configuration does not work.
> >
> > Symptoms:
> > alsamixer says:
> > alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
> > directory
> >
> > Additional info:
> > /dev/dsp points to /dev/sound/dsp (which seems to be ok)
> > I am a member of groups cdrom, audio and video
> > See attached the output of lspci, lsmod
> > and my /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
> >
> > My hardware:
> > Asus p4p800 deluxe
> > Soundblaster live!
> >
> > The funny thing is that I can hear sounds just fine by playing a flash
> > animation with sound, eg the casini one found on
> > http://www.nasa.gov/home/
> >
> > So the hardware works.
> >
> > However I cannot get arts to work.
> > Also xmms does not work using the alsa output driver
> >
> > I guess I am still missing some alsa-specific configuration stuff.
> >
> > Thanks for any ideas,
>
> Your problem is that you are loading OSS modules.  The ALSA modules
> can't load if the OSS modules are installed.  First, remove the OSS
> modules from your /etc/modules file, so they'll stop being loaded
> automatically during boot.  Then, check to see if you have either
> discover or hotplug installed.  During boot, their scripts run before
> the ALSA script does, and they'll try to install OSS modules.  If
> you have either or both of them installed, make sure that the OSS
> modules are blacklisted in their respective configuration files.
> The ALSA modules will load appropriately.
>
> -c

Chris, thanks for this tip.
It seems a very reasonable hypothesis.

One question: how do I recognise OSS modules?
Did you see any in my lsmod output?

BTW I had installed discover just tonight, to see if it would help;
obviously I'm better of without it if I want to use ALSA.

I also use hotplug, which gives me lots of error messages but seems
to work with USB anyway. It says PCI events are not synthesised, so I guess
I do not really have to worry about hotplug for the sound card?

On a related note, isn't it time for the discover program to start 
installing ALSA over OSS? Or does Debian use ALSA as a default only for 
the 2.6 kernel?

Thanks

John


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Re: Shutdown

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 04:12, Patrick Lane wrote:
> I am probably coming in the middle of this thread and don't know exactly
> what's going on (just re-subscribed to the list). But are you trying to
> get a "shutdown" button in gnome without having to log out and do it via
> gdm?
> 
> Simply make a new launcher that runs 'gksu poweroff'. When you press it,
> you'll get a dialog box asking for password, then it shutsdown for you.

How does this solution interact with Gnome session management?

Is it like hitting CTRL-ALT-Backspace, and are there any gotcha
side effects we might want to know about?

tia
zem


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cant ssh in from outside world

[Nick Smith]

i recently just ran into this problem when i moved my mail server from
cable to dsl, (comcast to bellsouth).  i didnt change any of the settings,
that i know of.  i can ftp, send/receive mail, but i cant ssh in. its very
frustrating because that is how i fix anything thats gone wrong, check log
files etc.  is there some reason why i cant ssh from the outsite net?
does anyone else use bellsouth.net fast access and have this problem? is
there a work around?  what can i look for in my config to see if i am set
up still for remote connects aka from the internet?  i can ssh from a
local machine fine. it lets me in no problem, but i get a:

ssh: connect to address 68.214.***.blah port 22: Connection refused

when i try it from an outside computer.  no firewall is active, should be
totally open, its the DMZ on the router as well, and just in case that
didnt open it up enough i added a rule in the port forwarding to allow ssh
port 21 to that specific local ip.
any ideas?

nick


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Web - https://www.ComputerNick.com





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Re: apt-get testing & stable questions

[Adam Aube]

James W. Thompson, II wrote:

> can I get only certain packages from testing while leaving the rest of
> my system on the stable chain without messing too much stuff up and do
> it automatically through apt-get?

Depends on what you get, though it will be very easy to make a mess of your
system. I would recommend checking backports.org for a backport instead.

Adam


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Re: saving iptables rules?

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Adam Aube wrote:

> Ralph Crongeyer wrote:
>
> > How does one save iptables rules in Debian "Unstable/SID"? I've tried
> > iptables-save and get some output with no errors, but when I reboot all
> > my rules are gone?
>
> /etc/init.d/iptables save active
>

Except that is just a hold over from old versions of the package.  It
doesn't exist in new installs.

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/


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Re: saving iptables rules?

[Adam Aube]

Ralph Crongeyer wrote:

> How does one save iptables rules in Debian "Unstable/SID"? I've tried
> iptables-save and get some output with no errors, but when I reboot all
> my rules are gone?

/etc/init.d/iptables save active

Adam


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Re: Debian testing vs unstable for home workstation?

[Micha Feigin]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 04:45:06AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 07:29:43AM +, Adam Funk wrote:
> > I've been using Debian testing on my home workstation for a while now
> > and am generally happy with it, but I understand there are some
> > disadvantages in comparison with unstable, such as recency of security
> > updates.  I suppose the name "unstable" puts me off, since I work from
> > home a lot and need a functional computer all the time.  What would be
> > the positive and negative effects of switching to unstable?
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> Hi Adam,
> From the posts I have read, 'testing' is best for people testing debian
> before it is released as 'stable'. 
> 

Testing is a collection point for preparing the next stable
release. Its usually in big cause between releases, get better near a
release (like now).

> 'unstable' packages, after some user
> testing, automatically move into 'testing'. After begin in 'testing'
> and

Packages enter into testing automatically, don't know whats the method
for keeping them back if there is a big problem, I think only big
problems hold them back. Fixes can takes weeks to filter down to
testing.

> some more time, the package goes into 'stable'. In this respect,

New packages never make it into stable. The only things that filter
down into stable once its released are security patches.

Testing is made into stable only in version releases.

> 'testing' is the place where packages go before they inclusion in
> 'stable' debian. so, 'testing', after a new 'stable' has been released,
> is very close to 'unstable'. And before the release of the next
> 'stable', 'testing' is closer to 'stable'. 

Its more like its stabler close to a release.

> 
> It has a few characteristics
> relateing to this: if some part of kde in 'testing' has may bugs, and
> this cases kde to not function, the whole of kde is removed from
> 'testing'. So, groups of packages can be moved in and out as things get
> fixed in 'testing'. But as 'testing' gets closer to being 'stable', in
> tends to have less big shift like this. But the idea is that if you NEED
> kde, all you can do is wait until things are fixed. This can be a few
> days or a few months.
> 
> With unstable, things are being put in all the time and it does not have
> the hugh package shift like 'testing'. Also, bug fixes reported in unstable
> or testing get put into the next unstable package. 
> 

Unstable gets new packages all the time. Most problems that appear
there though are when the program has had major changes or there was a
change in the packaging scheme and then some packages may not be
installable for several days and in such cases if the package is
already installed you won't be able to update it until things are
fixed, but everything already installed will continue to function, you
just need to watch the upgrades to make sure aptitude is not trying to
remove something you need and just wait with updates until its fixed or
hold the packages which have problems at the current version until
things are ok (the = under aptitude).

> And as for security updates, 'stable' is the only one that has this.
> 

Because unstable doesn't need it since it gets the new version quite
quickly and these changes are then ported to stable if needed (only
security fixes, not features). Testing usually suffers for a few weeks
in some cases until the security fixes finally filter through.

> So, most people who do not need the 100% stability of 'stable' chose

Usually only servers, at least if you watch your updates.

> 'unstable' because it is more up-to-date with respect to hardware and
> versions.
> 
> take this with a grain of salt as IANADD. (I am not a debian developer)
> :-)
> 
> -Kev



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Re: ccing

[Paul Scott]

s. keeling wrote:
No offense meant, really.  But have you ever tried mutt?  
 

I would use mutt before pine any time but I use Thunderbird because of 
its 3 panes displaying all of my mailboxes and the headers from the 
selected mailbox or folder and the current message simultaneously.  I 
use the keyboard in favor of the mouse as much as possible but here's a 
case where navigating the folder list with the mouse is obviously more 
efficient.  Also Thunderbird has a really nice combination of fonts 
right now.

I have tried mutt several times and still have it installed and would 
consider it again if anyone could tell me how to do what Thunderbird 
does for me.  I am quite open to ideas here.

On the original topic I do wish Thunderbird had Reply to List but I 
don't have any trouble doing Reply All and quickly modifying the 
addresses to only reply to the list.

<>3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.
Everyone forgets from time to time. Many never check. 

I never check.  I Google instead.  I tried checking list archives a long 
time ago and found it terribly inefficient.  Is there some other 
efficient way to search lists.debian.org that I don't know about?

Paul Scott
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Re: random performance problems in X

[Adam Aube]

martin f krafft wrote:

> I just put together a machine with a 3GHz Athlon, 1Gb of 400MHz
> DDR-RAM and a 64 Mb dual-head ATI Radeon 7500 PCI. It's running
> a Debian 2.6.6-k7 kernel. The system works fine and seems pretty
> performant, but every now and then it does weird things.
> 
> For instance, when I enter an OpenOffice.org document with the
> mouse, or when I open various images in rapid succession in firefox
> as tabs, then the mouse jerks and xmms or ogg123 cuts out.
> 
> It all peaks when I fullsize a 2000x1700 pixel image across the
> Xinerama screens. The system basically becomes unresponsive for
> a couple of seconds. I have 1.2 GHz Athlons with 256Mb that handle
> this just fine.

What is the nice value in /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config set to? It should be -10
for 2.4.x kernels and 0 for 2.6.x kernels.

Note that "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-common", though it seems to configure
this file, does not actually update it (due to a missing checksum - a known
bug). You will need to edit the file manually.

After editing this file, you will need to restart X to get the priority to
change.

Adam


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[William Ballard]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:31:01AM -0500, James W. Thompson, II wrote:
> Any ideas? I searched the archives and didn't find anything real useful.

fluxbox, which ironically is also the best WM on the higest end P4 3.2 + 
9800XT with 1gig memory.  That is, if you like it to be fast


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Re: saving iptables rules?

[Darryl Luff]

Ralph Crongeyer wrote:
How does one save iptables rules in Debian "Unstable/SID"? I've tried 
iptables-save and get some output with no errors, but when I reboot 
all my rules are gone? Is there a "Debian way" of doing this? Rather 
than write my own startup script I want to find out if there's a 
standard way of doing this. I haven't been successful looking on GOOGLE.

If you dont have the init scripts (which are apparently deprecated) I 
think the rules aren't automatically restored on reboot. In Testing at 
least there are some notes in /usr/share/doc/iptables/README.Debian.gz 
that show how to do it using ifupdown, which doesn't quite seem right to 
me unless you have seperate per-interface rules, but on a single 
interface box I suppose it doesnt matter.
.

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Re: why is logcheck failing?: [Fwd: Logcheck: zen8100a 2004-06-11 11:02 exiting due to errors]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 12:22, Dana J. Laude wrote:
> Logcheck has changed recently.  Make sure logcheck is a member of
> the adm group.  Also, /etc/logcheck directory should have the
> owner of root, group - logcheck.  Also, the /var/lib/logcheck
> dir should be owner logcheck, group adm and delete the
> files in /var/lib/logcheck.

That last one was out.

But still getting the same problem.

Thanks anyway (and apologies to Mr Folkert for not fixing up my reply-all to not 
include him)
Zen


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Re: why is logcheck failing?: [Fwd: Logcheck: zen8100a 2004-06-11 11:02 exiting due to errors]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 22:56, Greg Folkert wrote:
>  SOMETHING changed the perms in /var/*
> 
> they should be :
> drwxrwsr-x2 root staff4096 2000-05-27 14:55 local
> drwxrwxrwt3 root root 4096 2004-06-03 00:58 lock
> drwxrwxrwt4 root root 4096 2004-06-09 20:14 tmp

Well, those are the same as in my FS.

thanks
zen


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[James W. Thompson, II]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:50:06 +0300 (EEST), Martin Fluch
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Carl Fink wrote:
> 
> > > ... I am wanting to use a graphical login
> >
> > Why?  That is, why have a login at all?  Let root use the "real" VT
> > console and startx from a VT to start X.
> 
> But please change the user id to something else then "root" before
> launching X. But definitly there is no login needed (neither graphical nor
> console). Just some entry in /etc/inittab to launch a scrip which then
> again starts X under a different user (su is probably your friend here)
> and then the windowmanager straight the web browser...
> 
> Just an idea, never done it myself...
> 
> - Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

My other concern in this is that of using FireFox, as it is not part
of the stable packages yet I am somewhat put off by this. I have a
browser.jar for a kiosk style Firefox...could this be applied to the
1.0.0 stable Mozilla browser? Or is there a way, as I asked in a
seperate thread, to only install certain packages from testing while
keeping the rest of the system on stable?


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Re: ccing

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Cheryl Homiak:
> I have my configuration set to use "reply-to"; maybe that's wrong. 
> However, it isn't purely a Pine problem; I never have this problem with 
> many lists to which I am subscribed; the list email is automatically 
> chosen. In fact, I have to intervene manually with very few lists and this 
> is one of them. I've assumed Pine was doing this because it can't find a 
> reply-to.

Google for "reply-to considered harmful".  This is an old
philosophical issue.


-- 
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(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
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Re: ccing

[s. keeling]

Incoming from Cheryl Homiak:
> 1. I have no intention of changing my email system.

No offense meant, really.  But have you ever tried mutt?  You should
have no trouble going from one to the other interchangably (they
shouldn't do any rmail style mangling of your existing mail, for
instance).  The only thing you should need to be aware of is the
format they're storing mail in: mbox or maildir.  Copy /etc/Muttrc to
~/.muttrc and change it to do what Pine's doing now.


> it will "never happen" is perhaps correct in percentage but not totally 
> correct.

I stand corrected.  "Generalizing is always wrong."  :-)


> 3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.

Everyone forgets from time to time.  Many never check.  Many don't
even know it exists.  I forgot to check yesterday when I posted a
question.  The point is, this is a big list.  There's a lot of traffic
coming from it.  If half the people on it were doing things in a way
the other half despised, the list wouldn't work for anyone.  That's
why people here are so quick to jump on others who don't appear to be
following list conventions.


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apt-get testing & stable questions

[James W. Thompson, II]

I have what might be a stupid question...

can I get only certain packages from testing while leaving the rest of
my system on the stable chain without messing too much stuff up and do
it automatically through apt-get?


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Courier IMAP shared folders

[Pete Clarke]

Hi all,

I have a working installation of courier-imap for general mail delivery, the
problem I am having is with shared folders.

I can set up shared folders thus:

maildirmake -S /home/shared/maildir
maildirmake -s write -f Announcements /home/shared/maildir

create /etc/courier/maildirshared with:

Announcements/home/shared/maildir/

This results in the shared folder being active ... all well and good...
Trouble is, when OE (I know, I know) connects, it sees the shared folders
as:

shared
   - Announcements
   - Announcements

Both shared and the first level Announcements are un-readable as far as OE
is concerned...but the last one is OK.

Is this a problem with the way I have set up the shared folder, or does it
look like an OE issue? changing clients on the Windows boxes is not a
problem, as long as it's not Thunderbird (bad experience)..

I haven't got a Linux client that is working at the moment, so I don't know
if Linux mail clients can see the folders correctly.

TIA..


Cheers,



Pete.



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saving iptables rules?

[Ralph Crongeyer]

How does one save iptables rules in Debian "Unstable/SID"? I've tried 
iptables-save and get some output with no errors, but when I reboot all 
my rules are gone? Is there a "Debian way" of doing this? Rather than 
write my own startup script I want to find out if there's a standard way 
of doing this. I haven't been successful looking on GOOGLE.

Thanks.
Ralph
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installation (problems with cd-rom)

[Tomaz Kravcar]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I am trying to install Debian 3.0r2 (for the first time) on my Gericom
Webgine notebook. In the first phase i had no problem (install base
system), then after rebooting, system just didn't recognize cdrom (At
the point where I have to choose from which source (cdrom,disk,ftp,...)
i will be installing debian). I found the documenet
~http://debian.stro.at/webgine.htm_
in which is written I have to append "hdc=ide-scsi" in lilo and
put "ide-scsi" in /etc/modules, which I did, but didn't help.
I think i am missing ide-scsi.o in /lib/modules/2.2.20-idepci/cdrom
Here are the lines which i belive are important:
cat /proc/ide/hdc/model
Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-R2002
cat /proc/ide/hdc/driver
(none)
dmesg|grep hdc
ide_setup: hdc=ide-scsi
~ide: BM-DMA at 0xff08-0xff0f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA
hdc: Toshiba dvd-rom sd-r2002, atapi cdrom drive
hdc: driver not present
So if there is a driver problem where can i get it since it is not
among those in installation (under configure device driver modules)
ps: since i am quite new to linux, would be nice to know where are
good sources of documentation (where examples are made on debian  :)
tomaz
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Re: Partition sizes

[Patrick Lane]

everything looks reasonable to me except that / is definitely too small
and I generally allocate a lot more space to /tmp. Any reason in
particular you're keeping it so small? I also usually have a /boot
partition.

btw, my box is named blue also, damned biter! =)

On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 12:55, David Balch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think I need to change my hard drive partitioning on a testing 
> install, and want to make sure I'm not missing something that
> would mean I didn't have to. Here's the situation...
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
> Linux blue 2.4.25-1-386 #2 Wed Apr 14 19:38:08 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ df -h
> FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/hda1 133M   92M   34M  74% /
> tmpfs 253M 0  253M   0% /dev/shm
> /dev/hda5 4.6G  2.3G  2.2G  52% /usr
> /dev/hda6 2.8G  2.0G  672M  75% /var
> /dev/hda7  15M  1.1M   13M   8% /tmp
> /dev/hda8 105G  2.5G   97G   3% /home
> 
> I'm practically out of space on my root partition, which was allocated
> 133Mb by Debian Installer. (Although I'm not certain it wasn't picking
> up some older partitioning.) The space is used (approx) by:
> 
> blue:/# du -hs /lib /etc /boot /sbin /bin
> 43M /lib
> 28M /etc
> 12M /boot
> 2.9M/sbin
> 2.8M/bin
> 
> When attempting to install a second kernel, / runs out of space and the
> install fails.
> 
> Does this look within a sensible range for a desktop with Gnome?
> i.e. my / partition is just too small, and I'll have to change it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> I support http://www.waronwant.org/ and http://www.eff.org/ - Do you?
> 
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
>Want browsing without popups? Want email without spam?
> -++{ http://www.mozilla.org/ }++-
> 


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Re: Console only box?

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:44:30AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> David Haughton wrote:
> > I still prefer lynx over links (or links2 or whatever).

That is fair ...

> 1: This is debian list.  As such it behooves you to follow the CoC as laid out
> here: .  You'll note that it states
> clearly one should not CC unless requested.  I did not, have not nor will not
> request a CC.  Please adhere to the CoC.  Thanks.

Relax.  It ain't as bad as spam.

> 2: Lynx suffers from a decided lack of formatting and frames support, links
> does not.  As such many pages that are completely unreadable in lynx are
> perfectly usable in links.  Since most people don't know about links nor its
> formatting capabilities they often see lynx, see how useless it is and give up
> on text browsers.  Best to point them at the one that at least can render
> something more than the HTML equivolent of "hello world".  :P

But look at bright side :)

When you want to extract a content of a frame, it will be nicer to use
lynx (I usually use links.)

So any shortcomings may be considered feature.  Just like life.  We just
have to make best of it.

Osamu

~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ +
Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Brussels Belgium, GPG-key: A8061F32
 .''`.  Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers
 : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu
 `. `'  "Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software" --- Social Contract


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Rendez vous de l'emploi !

[Emploi]

Pour vous désinscrire de la 
liste cliquez ici
merci !
nous nous excusons pour les personnes qui recevront 
ce e-mail 2 fois , un bogue informatique est la source 
.
merci de votre 
compréhension!

Partition sizes

[David Balch]

Hi,
I think I need to change my hard drive partitioning on a testing 
install, and want to make sure I'm not missing something that
would mean I didn't have to. Here's the situation...

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a
Linux blue 2.4.25-1-386 #2 Wed Apr 14 19:38:08 EST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ df -h
FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda1 133M   92M   34M  74% /
tmpfs 253M 0  253M   0% /dev/shm
/dev/hda5 4.6G  2.3G  2.2G  52% /usr
/dev/hda6 2.8G  2.0G  672M  75% /var
/dev/hda7  15M  1.1M   13M   8% /tmp
/dev/hda8 105G  2.5G   97G   3% /home
I'm practically out of space on my root partition, which was allocated
133Mb by Debian Installer. (Although I'm not certain it wasn't picking
up some older partitioning.) The space is used (approx) by:
blue:/# du -hs /lib /etc /boot /sbin /bin
43M /lib
28M /etc
12M /boot
2.9M/sbin
2.8M/bin
When attempting to install a second kernel, / runs out of space and the
install fails.
Does this look within a sensible range for a desktop with Gnome?
i.e. my / partition is just too small, and I'll have to change it.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
I support http://www.waronwant.org/ and http://www.eff.org/ - Do you?
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
  Want browsing without popups? Want email without spam?
   -++{ http://www.mozilla.org/ }++-
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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Martin Fluch]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Carl Fink wrote:

> > ... I am wanting to use a graphical login
> 
> Why?  That is, why have a login at all?  Let root use the "real" VT
> console and startx from a VT to start X.

But please change the user id to something else then "root" before 
launching X. But definitly there is no login needed (neither graphical nor 
console). Just some entry in /etc/inittab to launch a scrip which then 
again starts X under a different user (su is probably your friend here) 
and then the windowmanager straight the web browser...

Just an idea, never done it myself...

- Martin


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Re: alsa not working

[Chris Metzler]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:51:13 +0200
John van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I searched linuxquestions.org and the last year of this list but
> could not find anything relevant.
> 
> Problem:
> alsa sound not working.
> alsaconf is not working either. It says no pci cards found, and
> scanning for legacy ISA cards is not useful, I don't have those.
> So automatic configuration does not work.
> 
> Symptoms:
> alsamixer says: 
> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
> directory
> 
> Additional info:
> /dev/dsp points to /dev/sound/dsp (which seems to be ok)
> I am a member of groups cdrom, audio and video
> See attached the output of lspci, lsmod 
> and my /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
> 
> My hardware: 
> Asus p4p800 deluxe 
> Soundblaster live!
> 
> The funny thing is that I can hear sounds just fine by playing a flash 
> animation with sound, eg the casini one found on
> http://www.nasa.gov/home/
> 
> So the hardware works.
> 
> However I cannot get arts to work.
> Also xmms does not work using the alsa output driver
> 
> I guess I am still missing some alsa-specific configuration stuff.
> 
> Thanks for any ideas,

Your problem is that you are loading OSS modules.  The ALSA modules
can't load if the OSS modules are installed.  First, remove the OSS
modules from your /etc/modules file, so they'll stop being loaded
automatically during boot.  Then, check to see if you have either
discover or hotplug installed.  During boot, their scripts run before
the ALSA script does, and they'll try to install OSS modules.  If
you have either or both of them installed, make sure that the OSS
modules are blacklisted in their respective configuration files.
The ALSA modules will load appropriately.

-c


-- 
Chris Metzler   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(remove "snip-me." to email)

"As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I
have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear


pgprOmUcECAOO.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: alsa not working

[John van Spaandonk]

A little more info.

I can get sound in kde if I do not set the sound system
to alsa, but set it on automatic or oss...

John


On Friday 11 June 2004 21:51, John van Spaandonk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I searched linuxquestions.org and the last year of this list but
> could not find anything relevant.
>
> Problem:
> alsa sound not working.
> alsaconf is not working either. It says no pci cards found, and
> scanning for legacy ISA cards is not useful, I don't have those.
> So automatic configuration does not work.
>
> Symptoms:
> alsamixer says:
> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
> directory
>
> Additional info:
> /dev/dsp points to /dev/sound/dsp (which seems to be ok)
> I am a member of groups cdrom, audio and video
> See attached the output of lspci, lsmod
> and my /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
>
> My hardware:
> Asus p4p800 deluxe
> Soundblaster live!
>
> The funny thing is that I can hear sounds just fine by playing a flash
> animation with sound, eg the casini one found on http://www.nasa.gov/home/
>
> So the hardware works.
>
> However I cannot get arts to work.
> Also xmms does not work using the alsa output driver
>
> I guess I am still missing some alsa-specific configuration stuff.
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
>
> John


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alsa not working

[John van Spaandonk]

Hi,

I searched linuxquestions.org and the last year of this list but
could not find anything relevant.

Problem:
alsa sound not working.
alsaconf is not working either. It says no pci cards found, and
scanning for legacy ISA cards is not useful, I don't have those.
So automatic configuration does not work.

Symptoms:
alsamixer says: 
alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or directory

Additional info:
/dev/dsp points to /dev/sound/dsp (which seems to be ok)
I am a member of groups cdrom, audio and video
See attached the output of lspci, lsmod 
and my /etc/modules and /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base

My hardware: 
Asus p4p800 deluxe 
Soundblaster live!

The funny thing is that I can hear sounds just fine by playing a flash 
animation with sound, eg the casini one found on http://www.nasa.gov/home/

So the hardware works.

However I cannot get arts to work.
Also xmms does not work using the alsa output driver

I guess I am still missing some alsa-specific configuration stuff.

Thanks for any ideas,

John
Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
sd_mod 12076   0 (autoclean) (unused)
ide-cd 32512   0 (autoclean)
sr_mod 14616   0 (autoclean) (unused)
cdrom  29472   0 (autoclean) [ide-cd sr_mod]
floppy 52668   0 (autoclean)
parport_pc 24072   1 (autoclean)
lp  7360   0 (autoclean)
parport28104   1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp]
nfsd   75120   8 (autoclean)
lockd  52432   1 (autoclean) [nfsd]
sunrpc 74176   1 (autoclean) [nfsd lockd]
ipx22116   1 (autoclean)
ipt_TOS 1048  12 (autoclean)
ipt_MASQUERADE  1624   1 (autoclean)
ipt_LOG 3544   6 (autoclean)
ipt_REJECT  3864   4 (autoclean)
ipt_pkttype  472   4 (autoclean)
ipt_state536  16 (autoclean)
ip_nat_irc  2320   0 (unused)
ip_nat_tftp 1680   0 (unused)
ip_nat_ftp  3088   0 (unused)
ip_conntrack_irc3184   1 [ip_nat_irc]
ip_conntrack_tftp   1808   1
ip_conntrack_ftp4272   1 [ip_nat_ftp]
ipt_multiport664   7 (autoclean)
ipt_conntrack   1080  31 (autoclean)
iptable_filter  1740   1 (autoclean)
iptable_mangle  2168   1 (autoclean)
iptable_nat18374   4 (autoclean) [ipt_MASQUERADE ip_nat_irc ip_nat_tftp 
ip_nat_ftp]
ip_conntrack   22976   3 (autoclean) [ipt_MASQUERADE ipt_state ip_nat_irc 
ip_nat_tftp ip_nat_ftp ip_conntrack_irc ip_conntrack_tftp ip_conntrack_ftp 
ipt_conntrack iptable_nat]
ip_tables  13504  13 [ipt_TOS ipt_MASQUERADE ipt_LOG ipt_REJECT 
ipt_pkttype ipt_state ipt_multiport ipt_conntrack iptable_filter iptable_mangle 
iptable_nat]
emu10k1-gp  1416   0 (unused)
gameport1692   0 [emu10k1-gp]
loop   10360   0 (autoclean)
lvm-mod59712   0
dm-mod 29992   0 (unused)
ide-scsi   10576   0
scsi_mod   97764   3 [sd_mod sr_mod ide-scsi]
mpu401 21092   0 (unused)
emu10k164780   2
sound  61984   0 [mpu401 emu10k1]
soundcore   4420   7 [emu10k1 sound]
ac97_codec 13784   0 [emu10k1]
autofs410228   1
af_packet  15016   1
agpgart47524   0 (unused)
8139too16008   2
mii 2560   0 [8139too]
crc32   2928   0 [8139too]
hw_random   2876   0 (unused)
printer 8576   0
usb-uhci   24496   0 (unused)
usbcore66636   1 [printer usb-uhci]
rtc 7784   0
ext3   86216   3 (autoclean)
jbd46744   3 (autoclean) [ext3]
ide-detect   288   0 (autoclean) (unused)
piix8968   2 (autoclean)
ide-disk   17184   4 (autoclean)
unix   17324 223 (autoclean)
vesafb  9960  63 (autoclean)
fbcon-cfb24 4552   0 (autoclean) [vesafb]
fbcon-cfb16 4200   0 (autoclean) [vesafb]
fbcon-cfb8  3592   0 (autoclean) [vesafb]
fbcon-cfb32 3880   0 (autoclean) [vesafb]
ide-core  114940   4 (autoclean) [ide-cd ide-scsi ide-detect piix ide-disk]
# /etc/modules: kernel modules to load at boot time.
#
# This file should contain the names of kernel modules that are
# to be loaded at boot time, one per line.  Comments begin with
# a `#', and everything on the line after them are ignored.
rtc
usb-uhci
printer
serial
hw_random
8139too
agpgart
af_packet
autofs4
ext3
emu10k1
mpu401
ide-scsi
apm
install snd-pcm /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install snd-pcm && /sbin/modprobe snd-pcm-oss
pcilib: Cannot open /sys/bus/pci/devices
:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82865G/PE/P DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface 

RE: ssh delays and drops

[David Haughton]

> On 2004-06-11 14:18:05 -0400, Antonio Rodriguez wrote:
> > I have been noticing lately some significant delays in my ssh 
> > connections when I log in from work. At first I thought 
> that it could 
> > be that my signals were been studied behind the firewall at 
> my work, 
> > but later I found out that some other users had the same 
> problem when 
> > connecting from their homes via putty. I also use putty for win-m$ 
> > from work. Some times the connection is even dropped because of the 
> > delay. I have thought of another possibility, which is the port 22 
> > being partially blocked may be by my isp. I don't know how to check 
> > for this. Any ideas?
> 
> You can try:
>   * ssh -vvv
>   * ethereal (to capture the IP packets)
> 
> I've also had various problems with ssh connections (being 
> slow and could even be closed with strange error messages). 
> This was due to attacks to a router at my lab, delaying some 
> IP packets.

Turning on/off compression may help too. Compression will help for some
things (like tunneling rdesktop or vnc) but might make CLI type stuff seem
laggy.

--david


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Re: Gui interface ideas

[Peter Dembinski]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 01:53:43AM -0700, Loren M. Lang wrote:

[...]

> I was looking for a good way to make a quick gui, ideally independent 
> of the current programs.  

I would use fltk or xforms together with small X server running on 
either Linux or Windows machine, depending on your need.


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Re: ccing

[Ken Simon]

Chris Metzler wrote:
Most email clients I've encounterred (mutt, sylpheed, balsa, evolution,
etc.) don't act this way.  Outlook is MS crap and is broken in lots of
other ways too.  Pine is old; is it still even being developed?
Thunderbird, OTOH, I thought *did* handle this correctly, and is broken
if it doesn't (and they'd probably like to know about it).
It has a "Reply to all" button that sets To: to the person who posted, 
and Cc: to the mailing list.  I guess you can just copy/paste around, 
but that's pretty dumb.  And people already know about it, and are 
complaining about it here: 
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=21703&start=0



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Ken Simon
Homepage: http://ninkendo.org
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Re: Xfce4 dies instead of prompting when I click the logout button on the panel.

[Hamilton Coutinho]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 07:27:32AM +, Adam Funk wrote:

> In the XFCE4 settings, I have requested confirmation before logging out. 
> This used to work, but since a week or two ago it consistently crashes
> after I click the logout button in the panel but before it displays the
> confirmation box.  This crash puts the following in ~/.xsession-errors.


Same thing here. Did you also notice that the icons appear clipped on
the panel now? I'm not sure but I bet on the GTK upgrade from a week
ago.

-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | a lawyer?  A: A doberman.
Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil |


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Carl Fink]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:31:01AM -0500, James W. Thompson, II wrote:

> Debian installed with no problems as a minimal install but I want to
> have some kind of idea of where I am going. To be honest, I have never
> configured a system for quite this purpose ... 

Neither have I, but not knowing what I'm talking about won't stop me!

> ... I am wanting to use a graphical login

Why?  That is, why have a login at all?  Let root use the "real" VT
console and startx from a VT to start X.

> ... would like for FireFox to launch automatically on loading into
> X. Do I even need a Window Manager really since I just want FireFox
> to load and run and nothing else will need to be there.

I certainly wouldn't use a window manager, except I think you'll have
to.  You could run just FireFox ... but it would have a very hard
time opening and closing popup windows with no WM.  You probably want
the lightest thing you can find that looks like MS Windows (for
familiarity to your browsers).  I personally use icewm, and you could
customize it to remove all the menus, etc. to avoid people fiddling.
-- 
Carl Fink   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum



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Re: Website creating software

[S.D.A.]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:36:52AM -0600 or thereabouts, Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
> On 2004-06-07, Nick Smith penned:
> > there is no way im going to design complex image maps or anything else
> > with lengthy code by hand any more, too much chance for error and it
> > takes way too long to do it.  i wish wine would pick up the pace and
> 
> Playing devil's advocate here ... when is an imagemap the right
> solution?

Probably when a client requests it. ;)

Seriously, I don't like them myself, and I'm not overly fond of Flash
personally, either -- But when a client requests a Flash enabled user interface
(and many do), I provide it. 'Cause the next developer will, and I will lose
probably a good paying client.

-- 
Steve
+
  Friday Jun 11 2004 03:31:01 PM EDT
+
If you didn't get caught, did you really do it?


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Re: OT wordprocessing anyone?

[Matthias Czapla]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:08:52AM -0400, richard lyons wrote:
> On Friday 11 June 2004 08:58, Matthias Czapla wrote:
> [...]
> > I think if you're not willing to learn LaTeX or troff commands you
> > don't have many options besides OpenOffice.org. I personally like
> > groff much more than LaTeX because I had trouble finding good docs
> > when I wanted to so something more than the available LaTeX classes
> > and packages let you do. The groff docs are excellent.
> 
> I hadn't even considered it -- I was intimidated by roff back in the 
> eighties when I first met unix.  I'll look at that with interest.  

As I understand it the basic commands haven't changed much. In fact I
have learned it from the original Troff User's Manual by Ossana and
Kernighan (available at http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/troff.html).

Regards
Matthias


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Re: ccing

[Chris Metzler]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:19 -0700
"David Haughton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> The usual reply to this is submit a bug report.  If it came 
>> from a list, the reply should go to the list.  If you want to 
>> reply to the author, that should take manual intervention.  
>> In the meantime, switch to something that does it right, mutt for one.
> 
> Most email clients will act this way (i.e. Thunderbird, Pine, Outlook*)
> because the person that sent the email to the list is in the "From"
> field and I don't see the "Reply-To" field being set by the listserv.

Most email clients I've encounterred (mutt, sylpheed, balsa, evolution,
etc.) don't act this way.  Outlook is MS crap and is broken in lots of
other ways too.  Pine is old; is it still even being developed?
Thunderbird, OTOH, I thought *did* handle this correctly, and is broken
if it doesn't (and they'd probably like to know about it).


> sHow does mutt know to reply to the email address in the "To"
> field and not the "From" field without user intervention?

Typically, clients that handle replies to mailing list messages
correctly *aren't* doing what you describe.  Instead, they're using
the presence of a common mailing-list-specific header, such as
"List-Id" or "List-Post", as the place to send the reply.  They
detect the presence of that, allow it to trump what's in the
"From" header, and set the "To" on the reply accordingly.

-c


-- 
Chris Metzler   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(remove "snip-me." to email)

"As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I
have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear


pgpMyzelwSNZU.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: ssh delays and drops

[Antonio Rodriguez]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:02:38PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2004-06-11 14:18:05 -0400, Antonio Rodriguez wrote:
> > I have been noticing lately some significant delays in my ssh
> > connections when I log in from work. At first I thought that it could
> > be that my signals were been studied behind the firewall at my work,
> > but later I found out that some other users had the same problem when
> > connecting from their homes via putty. I also use putty for win-m$
> > from work. Some times the connection is even dropped because of the
> > delay. I have thought of another possibility, which is the port 22
> > being partially blocked may be by my isp. I don't know how to check
> > for this. Any ideas?
> 
> You can try:
>   * ssh -vvv
>   * ethereal (to capture the IP packets)
> 
> I've also had various problems with ssh connections (being slow and
> could even be closed with strange error messages). This was due to
> attacks to a router at my lab, delaying some IP packets.
> 

In this case I would think that changing the default port in
etc/ssh/configfile would help. Is that what you had to do?


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Re: ccing

[Matthias Czapla]

On Fri, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:53:19AM -0700, David Haughton wrote:
> > Incoming from Cheryl Homiak:
> > > I agree that it's irritating to get duplicate messages. 
> > However, it's 
> > > often not that the person deliberately did a cc. At least 
> > in Pine, I 
> > > often
> > 
> > The usual reply to this is submit a bug report.  If it came 
> > from a list, the reply should go to the list.  If you want to 
> > reply to the author, that should take manual intervention.  
> > In the meantime, switch to something that does it right, mutt for one.
> 
> Most email clients will act this way (i.e. Thunderbird, Pine, Outlook*)
> because the person that sent the email to the list is in the "From" field
> and I don't see the "Reply-To" field being set by the listserv. Some
> listservs will also rewrite the "From" so that even clients that ignore the
> "Reply-To" will reply to the list. It will then appear something like "From:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of so-and-so". How does mutt know to
> reply to the email address in the "To" field and not the "From" field
> without user intervention?

You tell it what lists you're subscribed to and use the list-reply
function. It searches To: and Cc: for any configured mailing list
address and uses this for To:.

Regards
Matthias


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Re: ssh delays and drops

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2004-06-11 14:18:05 -0400, Antonio Rodriguez wrote:
> I have been noticing lately some significant delays in my ssh
> connections when I log in from work. At first I thought that it could
> be that my signals were been studied behind the firewall at my work,
> but later I found out that some other users had the same problem when
> connecting from their homes via putty. I also use putty for win-m$
> from work. Some times the connection is even dropped because of the
> delay. I have thought of another possibility, which is the port 22
> being partially blocked may be by my isp. I don't know how to check
> for this. Any ideas?

You can try:
  * ssh -vvv
  * ethereal (to capture the IP packets)

I've also had various problems with ssh connections (being slow and
could even be closed with strange error messages). This was due to
attacks to a router at my lab, delaying some IP packets.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Web: 
100% validated (X)HTML - Acorn / RISC OS / ARM, free software, YP17,
Championnat International des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, etc.
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / SPACES project at LORIA


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Re: ccing

[Cheryl Homiak]

I have my configuration set to use "reply-to"; maybe that's wrong. 
However, it isn't purely a Pine problem; I never have this problem with 
many lists to which I am subscribed; the list email is automatically 
chosen. In fact, I have to intervene manually with very few lists and this 
is one of them. I've assumed Pine was doing this because it can't find a 
reply-to.

--
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

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RE: ccing

[David Haughton]

> Incoming from Cheryl Homiak:
> > I agree that it's irritating to get duplicate messages. 
> However, it's 
> > often not that the person deliberately did a cc. At least 
> in Pine, I 
> > often
> 
> The usual reply to this is submit a bug report.  If it came 
> from a list, the reply should go to the list.  If you want to 
> reply to the author, that should take manual intervention.  
> In the meantime, switch to something that does it right, mutt for one.

Most email clients will act this way (i.e. Thunderbird, Pine, Outlook*)
because the person that sent the email to the list is in the "From" field
and I don't see the "Reply-To" field being set by the listserv. Some
listservs will also rewrite the "From" so that even clients that ignore the
"Reply-To" will reply to the list. It will then appear something like "From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of so-and-so". How does mutt know to
reply to the email address in the "To" field and not the "From" field
without user intervention?

--David

*I'm forced to use this at work :(


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Re: ccing

[Cheryl Homiak]

1. I have no intention of changing my email system.
2. I do take the time to  manually change the destination address if 
it's wrong; otherwise, you would be getting a cc of this. so the idea that 
it will "never happen" is perhaps correct in percentage but not totally 
correct.
3. I also check lists.debian.org and I bet a lot of people do.

--
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Nate Bargmann]

* James W. Thompson, II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004 Jun 11 11:41 -0500]:
> I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
> with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
> best Window Manager for the job. Here is the biggest catch, the system
> is old.
> 
> + Pentium 233MHz
> + 32MB RAM (Going to try and upgrade it to 64MB if we can find a stick)
> + 2 GB Hard Drive
> + 3Com 3c509 NIC
> + ATI 3D Rage Graphics
> + CD-ROM and Floppy

My vote would be to use IceWM as it is lightweight and has a default
look and feel that is similar to other operating environments.  There
are a number of themes available, some more familiar/simple than
others.

I've used IceWM exclusively for over six years and haven't had a reason
to switch.

> Debian installed with no problems as a minimal install but I want to
> have some kind of idea of where I am going. To be honest, I have never
> configured a system for quite this purpose. I have two accounts on the
> machine: root and user. I am wanting to use a graphical login and
> would like for FireFox to launch automatically on loading into X. Do I
> even need a Window Manager really since I just want FireFox to load
> and run and nothing else will need to be there.

This is probably quite doable by adding firefox to ~/.xsession in place
of a window manager.  When Firefox is closed the X server will die and
the screen will return to the xdm login.

I do think that you will want to get the RAM up to 64 MiB, though.

- Nate >>

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RE: Console only box?

[Cheryl Homiak]

I've actually found very few sites I "can't read" in lynx; I don't find it 
"useless" at all. You do have to figure out which links to enter on, but 
it most certainly does handle frames. If your experience with it is that 
it is "useless", that's fine for you; I find it quite useful and do tons 
of browsing with it. In fact, even most of those sites that proclaim "you 
are using a browser that does not support frames" are usually quite 
navigable unless they've set up software to block you because you aren't 
using IE or Netscape. while I do appreciate links2, I find it coughs and 
chokes on some sites that lynx handles fine, so i find I need both of 
them.

--
Cheryl
"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

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Re: ccing

[Ken Simon]

Cheryl Homiak wrote:
I agree that it's irritating to get duplicate messages. However, it's 
often not that the person deliberately did a cc. At least in Pine, I 
often get messages from this list where when I go to reply i'm asked if 
I want to reply to all recipients. If I say no, I end up with the 
personal address instead of the list address in the "to" field and have 
to manually change it; if I say yes, I end up sending a message to the 
list and to the sender of the message to which I am replying. It just 
takes a few seconds to make sure that doesn't happen, but my point is 
that often when we get duplicate messages it might be hurriedness or 
carelessness but it often isn't that somebody is flaunting list rules 
just to be aggravating. certainly if everybody checks emails before 
sending this can be avoided.


I know in evolution there's a "reply to list" item when you right click 
on the message.  Now if only thunderbird had this feature...

--
Ken Simon
Homepage: http://ninkendo.org
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Re: ccing

[Monique Y. Mudama]

On 2004-06-11, Cheryl Homiak penned:
> I agree that it's irritating to get duplicate messages. However, it's
> often not that the person deliberately did a cc. At least in Pine, I
> often get messages from this list where when I go to reply i'm asked
> if I want to reply to all recipients. If I say no, I end up with the
> personal address instead of the list address in the "to" field and
> have to manually change it; if I say yes, I end up sending a message
> to the list and to the sender of the message to which I am replying.
> It just takes a few seconds to make sure that doesn't happen, but my
> point is that often when we get duplicate messages it might be
> hurriedness or carelessness but it often isn't that somebody is
> flaunting list rules just to be aggravating.  certainly if everybody
> checks emails before sending this can be avoided.
>

Well, some of us go to the effort of setting headers so that the mail
client should automatically know not to CC us.  It's really frustrating
when the recipient's mail client ignores that instruction.

-- 
monique


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Re: Best Window Manager for the Job

[Joris]

James W. Thompson, II verraste ons met de boodschap:

> I am working on building a web browsing kiosk, no other functionality
> with Debian. I am planning to use FireFox and was wondering about the
> best Window Manager for the job. Here is the biggest catch, the system
> is old.

I've built a kiosk with comparable hardware, with only this installed:
- X, the very basics + fonts
- icewm for a window manager (extremely configurable and fast)
- gdm for the autologin feature
- galeon for browsing (ok, a very large set of dependencies, but I like
its tab behaviour and the mouse gestures)
- xpdf (you could also install gv, java, flashplugin, mozplugger,
mplayer, mplayerplugin, ... for other browsing enhancements)
- _no_ xterm or equivalent if you don't want guests to explore the
filesystem

additional feature:
/var and /home moved to /var.template and /home.template, mounting /var,
/tmp and /home as tmpfs and copying over the contents directly after
mounting. add a read-only root partition and shutting down is as easy as
turning the power off :-)

> Debian installed with no problems as a minimal install but I want to
> have some kind of idea of where I am going. To be honest, I have never
> configured a system for quite this purpose. I have two accounts on the
> machine: root and user. I am wanting to use a graphical login and would
> like for FireFox to launch automatically on loading into X. Do I even
> need a Window Manager really since I just want FireFox to load and run
> and nothing else will need to be there.

I've tried the 'no window manager' approach... it sucks ;-). dialog boxes
don't get keyboard focus, among other inconveniences

> Any ideas? I searched the archives and didn't find anything real useful.

indeed, given that the kiosk-howto is almost 5 years old
hope this helps, I wish you the best of luck,

-- 
Joris


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RE: Console only box?

[Preston Boyington]

David Haughton wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
> 
>> David Haughton wrote:
>> 
>>> Then you have "elm" and "lynx" for email and web and that's pretty
>>> much all you need, eh?
>> 
>> 
>> s/elmg/mutt/
>> s/lynx/links/
>> 
> 
> I still prefer lynx over links (or links2 or whatever).

agreed.  and i use mp3blaster for my oggs/cds/mp3 audio...