Re: Hyper-typematic and Firefox responsiveness in Weston.

[Tixy]

On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 15:25 -0800, pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
[...]
> Lines toward the end merit attention.
> 
> * Beginning at [14:32:22.019] ... Microsoft 3-Button Mouse with IntelliEye 
> ... events have been lost. 
> 
> * [14:32:28.210] ... Microsoft 3-Button Mouse ... rate limit exceeded (5 msgs 
> per 30s). ...
> 
> 5 msgs per 30s exceeds a rate limit in a computer?  Granted this is an 
> old machine but it's a computer not an abacus.

That limit is on the rate the kernel produces the messages, a lot of
warnings are programmed that way to avoid spamming your logs too much.

-- 
Tixy

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 06:22:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> And I just noticed this is an arm64 build, I need an armhf, where can I 
> get that from?
> 

Hi Gene,

In the mail where I replied to you last night, I pointed out it was an
arm64 build. Debian builds 64 bit for the Raspberry Pi 3 and 4: Raspberry Pi
Foundation buid 32 bit for all Raspberry Pis - irrespective of processor -
to allow some backwards compatibility. They do things differently there -
that's OK.

Short answer: As far as I can see: you can't unless:

a.) You go back to Raspberry Pi OS Lite - and deal with the Raspberry Pi
userland and kernel - and level of support.

b.) You build it yourself - using the same scripts as Gunnar does - but
I would advise spending a time familiarising yourself with them _and_
talking to Gunnar. No guarantees that this will work.

c.) You build something else yourself - again, no guarantees.

As ever, you're out on the very edge of anyone else being readily able
to support you. There was someone suggesting building and maintaining
native Debian packages for LinuxCNC. I don't know how far that got
and I suspect they'd only be for amd64 architecture.

Building realtime pre-emptive kernels and getting them to run on a Pi 4 -
that's deep magic and you might need to find a Pi 4 expert from among
the Raspberry Pi Foundation folks - their 64 bit OS is a rough beta
at the moment, I think.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[max]

January 22, 2022 2:23:48 PM CET max  wrote:

> https://medium.com/@maxwillb/why-is-debian-not-telling-the-truth-about-its-security-fixes-85f0f85f19a0

I've updated the post taking into account the feedback so far (There weren't 
any corrections, but there were misunderstandings, and I try to avoid those). 
Please don't share (on reddit or HN) until it's perfect. Let me know if there 
is anything else that can be improved. Thanks.


-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi

On 2022-01-24 01:07, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 01:01:57AM -0500, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Polyna,
> 
> with due respect for your patience... I have the impression that you are
> feeding trolls here.
> 
Tomas @ TuxTeam,
Thanks for reminding me that those type of trolls are not cute and happy
has we're the figures of the mid 1990. Remember those little happy face
with fluorescent hair ?

> Cheers

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[tomas]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 01:01:57AM -0500, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

[...]

Polyna,

with due respect for your patience... I have the impression that you are
feeding trolls here.

Cheers
-- 
tomás


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 23:26, max wrote:
> January 22, 2022 3:51:28 PM CET "Andrew M.A. Cater"  
> wrote:
> 
>> Debian does fix security problems 
> 
> The question is when: 0 days or 6 months after the CVE announcement? I mean, 
> if you need 6 months, that's fine. Just don't claim that you do it in 0 days. 
> That's dishonest. Does this make sense?
> 
>> Debian can feel free to set its own ratings 
> 
> But you can't call them "NVD severity", because NVD refers to the National 
> Vulnerability Database. They do their own analysis of vulnerabilities, that 
> some people find trustworthy. You can't just make up your own numbers and 
> claim that they are the NVD ratings. That name is taken.
> 
>> You use the term falsehood - as if [all of] Debian were consistently lying 
>> to all its users. 
> 
> Debian is an organization. It's publishing certain statements on its web site 
> that are false. How the misdeeds of an organization are shared among its 
> members is an interesting philosophical question, but I don't believe I 
> opined on it.
> 
> 

For a new user it's quite odd that you don't have much positive to say
about using Debian and seem more interested in the management and the
organization than in really using the software.

Don't you have real life question ? Any technical problem that need some
help ?

Maybe you shall start your own blog about the subject you raise because
I don't see much people sharing your interest. The only answer you raise
are one reminding you of false and misinterpretation.

If you are not happy with the service provided may I suggest you start
searching for something better and please don't share it with us.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[max]

January 23, 2022 11:21:31 AM CET "Pierre-Elliott Bécue"  wrote:

> I wonder if these bugs aren't also impacting chromium? I did not have time to 
> look into it so I may be wrong.

But of course they were. Otherwise why would Debian fix them, after a long 
wait? Why would it list them on its security-tracker? Have you thought of that 
at all?

> Now that I read the press release paragraph and the reference to Pocock's 
> "excommunication", I start wondering if Max, who never wrote on any Debian 
> List before last month is yet another trollesque incarnation of the 
> forementioned Pocock.

M-W defines it as "exclusion from fellowship in a group or community", so I 
think that word was perfect. It seems odd of you to question my command of 
English, all things considered.

And no, I'm not Pocock. He seems to be obsessed with certain alleged misdeeds 
of sexual nature. I never brought those up. Your accusation is baseless.

And if I were Pocock, what would be the master plan, according to you? Get more 
people to try to learn about who the heck he is? Debian has already done that. 
I didn't know about who this guy was until I read that press release and 
googled him. Talk about the Streisand effect. So, again, what was the plan, 
according to you?




-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[max]

January 22, 2022 3:51:28 PM CET "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:

> Debian does fix security problems 

The question is when: 0 days or 6 months after the CVE announcement? I mean, if 
you need 6 months, that's fine. Just don't claim that you do it in 0 days. 
That's dishonest. Does this make sense?

> Debian can feel free to set its own ratings 

But you can't call them "NVD severity", because NVD refers to the National 
Vulnerability Database. They do their own analysis of vulnerabilities, that 
some people find trustworthy. You can't just make up your own numbers and claim 
that they are the NVD ratings. That name is taken.

> You use the term falsehood - as if [all of] Debian were consistently lying to 
> all its users. 

Debian is an organization. It's publishing certain statements on its web site 
that are false. How the misdeeds of an organization are shared among its 
members is an interesting philosophical question, but I don't believe I opined 
on it.


-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[David Christensen]

On 1/23/22 6:39 PM, deloptes wrote:


Hi all,
is there a way to have a USB UEFI stick that works similar to the Debian
installer - for example to boot into UEFI and recover the boot loader.
One machine here seems a bit older and refuses to boot into UEFI from the
USB - rendering USB obsolete as recovery option. In BIOS USB says AUTO
(other option is Legacy) however if I disable Legacy keyboard does not
work.



I have a computer with an Intel DQ67SW desktop motherboard (released Q1, 
2011).  The Setup utility allows me to select BIOS/MBR mode or UEFI/GPT 
mode.  d-i seems to detect if the computer is running in BIOS/MBR mode 
or in UEFI/GPT mode, and performs an install to match.  So, I installed 
Debian twice (via textual "Install") onto a pair of USB sticks, once in 
each mode.  (An "Expert" installation may offer more options.)



I mostly run my computers in BIOS/MBR mode, and use the BIOS/MBR USB 
stick frequently.



I have limited experience with the UEFI/GPT USB stick.  I need to test 
it on a newer computer with Secure Boot, and may need to create a third 
USB stick.



AIUI d-i and Debian Live are open-source projects.  I believe they both 
support all of the above in a single image.  If you have the skills, 
perhaps you could fork one and create your own image with the tools you 
want.



David

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[max]

January 22, 2022 2:42:39 PM CET Jim Popovitch  wrote:

> I was interested, until I realized your Medium post is that Google Chrome is 
> not updated fast enough by Debian.  

Not at all. It's about the fact that the claims on debian.org/security are 
counterfactual.

-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[max]

January 24, 2022 3:44:51 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
 wrote:

> You don't have other interest ? This seem to be the only thing you talked 
> about and never asked a question on another subject.

You must have missed by post about

https://medium.com/@maxwillb/why-is-debian-not-telling-the-truth-about-its-security-fixes-85f0f85f19a0

just the other day.

-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> This seems to me close to harassment.

its just popcorn but you'll obviously never get it.

please stop as well and thank you in advance

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 21:39, deloptes wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> is there a way to have a USB UEFI stick that works similar to the Debian
> installer - for example to boot into UEFI and recover the boot loader.
> One machine here seems a bit older and refuses to boot into UEFI from the
> USB - rendering USB obsolete as recovery option. In BIOS USB says AUTO
> (other option is Legacy) however if I disable Legacy keyboard does not
> work.
> 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/refind/

rEFInd is a fork of the rEFIt boot manager. Like rEFIt, rEFInd can
auto-detect your installed EFI boot loaders and it presents a pretty GUI
menu of boot options. rEFInd goes beyond rEFIt in that rEFInd better
handles systems with many boot loaders, gives better control over the
boot loader search process, and provides the ability for users to define
their own boot loader entries.

https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/installing.html


-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 21:39, max wrote:
> January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>  wrote:
> 
>> None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's 
>> of public utility.
> 
> Nor was I suggesting otherwise. 
> 
> I'm just saying that it's odd for a moralistic organization like Debian to be 
> less transparent than the US government.
> 
>> Seems odd that you are new to this mailing list and have some much interest 
>> in this debate. 
> 
> Why is it odd? I have a moderate amount of interest. I sent one email.
And your main interest regarding Debian, as someone who's new here is
The arguments relating the faith of a decision concerning a long term
developer.

You don't have other interest ? This seem to be the only thing you
talked about and never asked a question on another subject.

Maybe you shall learn about a community *BEFORE* making opinion.
A bit like learning to program a language *BEFORE* trying to compile code.
> 
>> And so close on the timeline since someone else had left...
> 
> Who's "someone"? Are you saying I signed up when someone else stopped 
> posting? Is it suspicious? Have you noticed anyone else signing up around the 
> same time? Better be careful. They are out there. They come at night!
> 
No they won't come tonight. Monster only knock on my door the 31st of
October.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

USB UEFI recovery stick

[deloptes]

Hi all,
is there a way to have a USB UEFI stick that works similar to the Debian
installer - for example to boot into UEFI and recover the boot loader.
One machine here seems a bit older and refuses to boot into UEFI from the
USB - rendering USB obsolete as recovery option. In BIOS USB says AUTO
(other option is Legacy) however if I disable Legacy keyboard does not
work.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[max]

January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
 wrote:

> None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's of 
> public utility.

Nor was I suggesting otherwise. 

I'm just saying that it's odd for a moralistic organization like Debian to be 
less transparent than the US government.

> Seems odd that you are new to this mailing list and have some much interest 
> in this debate. 

Why is it odd? I have a moderate amount of interest. I sent one email.

> And so close on the timeline since someone else had left...

Who's "someone"? Are you saying I signed up when someone else stopped posting? 
Is it suspicious? Have you noticed anyone else signing up around the same time? 
Better be careful. They are out there. They come at night!

-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 21:27, deloptes wrote:
> local10 wrote:
> 
>> I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things
>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
>>
>> Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more
>> interesting in engaging in sophism and detracting from the essence of the
>> matter. In a way this is also an answer, it just shows and you are evasive
>> and want to rely on trickery and distractions to support your point
>> instead of facts.
>>
>> Anyhow, I've heard enough.
> 
> yes, it is meaningless - as I mentioned it looks like Debian is being indeed
> hijacked and Polyna is good example of liberal left that you can not talk
> to - never gives up and do not provide logical or meaningful discussions. 
Could you please stop bringing up politics and unrelated subject.

This seems to me close to harassment.

You have been asked to stop this more than once.

There's no such thing as liberal and leftist in this story. Whatever
side you are (right or left) both are elected.

You have no such clue as who I vote for or whatsoever of my personal
life. So stop acting out like a spoon fed child.

> 
> In fact it is impossible to find a common ground. As Charles Curley it is a
> difference in the world view. I just hope that people grow up and learn how
> important it is to be cooperative.
> 
> In fact just recently something similar happened to an honored professor who
> is famous for his contributions to argumentation theory. Someone censored
> an article of his by simply removing it from their scholar forum.
> Fortunately this someone was fired in the case. It shows how far we've gone
> and I am afraid the future will be even worse. I hope I am wrong.
> 

Thank you

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

local10 wrote:

> I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things
> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
> 
> Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more
> interesting in engaging in sophism and detracting from the essence of the
> matter. In a way this is also an answer, it just shows and you are evasive
> and want to rely on trickery and distractions to support your point
> instead of facts.
> 
> Anyhow, I've heard enough.

yes, it is meaningless - as I mentioned it looks like Debian is being indeed
hijacked and Polyna is good example of liberal left that you can not talk
to - never gives up and do not provide logical or meaningful discussions. 

In fact it is impossible to find a common ground. As Charles Curley it is a
difference in the world view. I just hope that people grow up and learn how
important it is to be cooperative.

In fact just recently something similar happened to an honored professor who
is famous for his contributions to argumentation theory. Someone censored
an article of his by simply removing it from their scholar forum.
Fortunately this someone was fired in the case. It shows how far we've gone
and I am afraid the future will be even worse. I hope I am wrong.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 19:37, max wrote:
> January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as  
>> community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the  
>> reasoning for their decisions. 
> 
> Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public 
> officials (not just mailing lists)
> 
None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if
it's of public utility.

And even public officials, you can get their mail but there will still
be private information kept private.

> Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the 
> public?
> 
If all would be public you'd be the first complaining and saying that
it's so rude to talk about specific case, before a decision is made and
share the information publicly.

If there's a private sharing of information then haven't it ever passed
thru your mind that it can be related to the need to keep confidential
information ? For example, private and personal information regarding
someone.

The same as a jury decision is public, the deliberate are not.

Oh, by the way, nice to meet you ! Seems odd that you are new to this
mailing list and have some much interest in this debate. And so close on
the timeline since someone else had left...

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 19:27, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 23:58 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
> 
>>
>>
>>> Sounds sketchy but whatever.  Is there a list of all the horrible things 
>>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him? 
>>> As a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if Debian leadership was 
>>> reasonable in demoting a valuable and long-term developer (because a 
>>> project managed by unreasonable leadership is doomed).
>>>
>> Are you going to do the same complex investigation for all other Linux
>> distribution you may plan to use ?
>>
>> And also for all the software used in building the Debian distribution ?
>>
> 
> I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things 
> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
What about this for a answer
What we call disciplinary record (in the human resources world it's
called this way) is something private, same as the deliberation of a
sanction to impose. Only the judgement is public (rule of natural justice).

Why would you be entitled to have such information ?
Anyway, I wasn't part of anything regarding the action taken. But I've
seen this answered many times on the mailing list and you seem to be
asking again and again.

> 
> Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more 
> interesting in engaging in sophism and detracting from the essence of the 
> matter. In a way this is also an answer, it just shows and you are evasive 
> and want to rely on trickery and distractions to support your point instead 
> of facts.
> 
> Anyhow, I've heard enough.
> 
We've all heard enough of this unproductive debate.

This was my last intervention on this matter.
As part of a group or a society as a whole, we have to accept decision
taken that we don't always agree to but that we have agreed to the rules
behind such decision.

The use of the whole Debian infrastructure mean you agree to the Debian
Code of Conduct. The said code was used to take action by the specific
actors that led to both the decision and it's consequences.
By using the mailing list, you agree upon accepting the Debian Code of
Conduct.

The time is over when it was acceptable for people to act in anti-social
behavior but that we put sunglasses over blind eye because such person
was considered of good technical expertise.

If Linus Torvals was able to look upon himself and admit that time have
changed then maybe it's time for others to follow his example. And I'm
not saying to act rude like he did but to see that time have changed
(for the better or worse, this is not the question here).

You guys seem to take this same as if it was a religious matter. So it's
real hard to have any discussion. Ever when we show a track of evidence,
you don't even look at them or simply cherry pick what you feel.

Sincerely,

> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[RP]

On 1/23/22 16:37, max wrote:

January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" 
 wrote:


Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as  community 
driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the  reasoning for 
their decisions.

Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public 
officials (not just mailing lists)

Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public?

Maybe taking it a bit too far but go ahead and file a lawsuit.  In the 
pursuit truth and justice.

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[max]

January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" 
 wrote:

> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as  community 
> driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the  reasoning for 
> their decisions. 

Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of public 
officials (not just mailing lists)

Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the public?

-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 18:50, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 23:24 by avbe...@gmail.com:
> 
>> Does this command show anything useful when 'firefox-esr' is running?
>>     $ systemctl --user status
>>
> 
> There's a few entries like the following:
> 
> ├─app-firefox\x2desr-dc24162ec3664da890a78fe619b4b1e4.scope 
>    │ │ ├─51854 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -ProfileManager
>    │ │ ├─54031 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 
> 3 -isForBrowser -prefsLen 5019 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true 
> tab
>    │ │ ├─54109 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 
> 4 -isForBrowser -prefsLen 5743 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true 
> tab
>    │ │ ├─55941 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -prefsLen 5876 -prefMapSize 291459 -appdir 
> /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true rdd
> 
> 
You can use bustle, not sure if it's in Debian (probably yes)
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/bustle/bustle
> 
>> It sure looks suspicious in the logs.
>>
> 
> I was puzzled as well.
> 
> Regards,
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 06:22:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 5:43:49 PM EST Andy Smith wrote:
> > However, if for your own eccentric reasons you insist:
> > 
> > # echo 'net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1' >
> > /etc/sysctl.d/disableipv6.conf
> > 
> And thats backwards from setting it in the /proc tree, there a zero in  a 
> long path to disable_ipv6 disables it after an /e/i/networking restart.

You asked, I answered. I have no idea what else you are referring
to and if you want to ask for help and then argue about it when it's
given, you are on your own.

Regards,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 18:50, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 23:24 by avbe...@gmail.com:
> 
>> Does this command show anything useful when 'firefox-esr' is running?
>>     $ systemctl --user status
>>
> 
> There's a few entries like the following:
> 
> ├─app-firefox\x2desr-dc24162ec3664da890a78fe619b4b1e4.scope 
>    │ │ ├─51854 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -ProfileManager
>    │ │ ├─54031 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 
> 3 -isForBrowser -prefsLen 5019 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true 
> tab
>    │ │ ├─54109 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 
> 4 -isForBrowser -prefsLen 5743 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true 
> tab
>    │ │ ├─55941 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc 
> -parentBuildID 20220105212146 -prefsLen 5876 -prefMapSize 291459 -appdir 
> /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true rdd
> 
Make a dump of dbusmonitor and you shall get a idea of what's calling
for Firefox.
> 
> 
>> It sure looks suspicious in the logs.
>>
> 
> I was puzzled as well.
> 
> Regards,
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 23:58 by deb...@polynamaude.com:

>
>
>> Sounds sketchy but whatever.  Is there a list of all the horrible things 
>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him? 
>> As a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if Debian leadership was 
>> reasonable in demoting a valuable and long-term developer (because a project 
>> managed by unreasonable leadership is doomed).
>>
> Are you going to do the same complex investigation for all other Linux
> distribution you may plan to use ?
>
> And also for all the software used in building the Debian distribution ?
>

I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things 
Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?

Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more 
interesting in engaging in sophism and detracting from the essence of the 
matter. In a way this is also an answer, it just shows and you are evasive and 
want to rely on trickery and distractions to support your point instead of 
facts.

Anyhow, I've heard enough.

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 23:42:33 +
Brian  wrote:

> I was rather hoping for some mention of the role of Avahi and 
> libnss-mdns on the local network amd its minimal maintenamce.

I seem to have it installed, mostly to support an apple Macbook. But I
did not configure it in any way. Apparently, it Just Works™, at least
for the small use I make of it.

Someone else will have to help you there.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 23:24 by avbe...@gmail.com:

> Does this command show anything useful when 'firefox-esr' is running?
>     $ systemctl --user status
>

There's a few entries like the following:

├─app-firefox\x2desr-dc24162ec3664da890a78fe619b4b1e4.scope 
   │ │ ├─51854 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -ProfileManager
   │ │ ├─54031 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 3 
-isForBrowser -prefsLen 5019 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 -parentBuildID 
20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true tab
   │ │ ├─54109 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 4 
-isForBrowser -prefsLen 5743 -prefMapSize 291459 -jsInit 285716 -parentBuildID 
20220105212146 -appdir /usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true tab
   │ │ ├─55941 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc 
-parentBuildID 20220105212146 -prefsLen 5876 -prefMapSize 291459 -appdir 
/usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser 51854 true rdd



> It sure looks suspicious in the logs.
>

I was puzzled as well.

Regards,

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 18:32, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:
> 
>> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
>> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
>> to overturn DAM's decision.
>>
>> In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
>> between Norbert and any other person to disclose these before the GR
>> starts and is voted on.
>>
>> As I already said, but you apparently decided to not read, Ian was not
>> part of the decision making at any part, and, apart from the others who
>> replied, two DAM members told him it wasn't fine.
>>
> 
> Sounds sketchy but whatever.  Is there a list of all the horrible things 
> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him? As 
> a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if Debian leadership was 
> reasonable in demoting a valuable and long-term developer (because a project 
> managed by unreasonable leadership is doomed).
> 
Are you going to do the same complex investigation for all other Linux
distribution you may plan to use ?

And also for all the software used in building the Debian distribution ?
Because if any of them, let say Apache LibreOffice would be badly
managed (as your judgment) then it would be doomed (as your judgment).
So if you want to act fair play in every part of the game then it's not
only the distribution that has to be evaluated but also the whole
system. Because Debian only package software together and if any one of
them would fail, there's no guarantee that any of the Debian members
would pick up to continue development.

Whatever proof you may expect, it was already provided on this mailing
list, many times to you in the threads.

You seem much more interested in finding objectionable action taken than
to saying thanks for the job done.
What have you contributed lately ?

> Regards,
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Brian]

On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 15:14:54 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

> 
> 
> Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 15:01 (UTC-0500):
> 
> >  * After a change is made, it has to be replicated across your entire
> >network.  Manually.
> 
> But trivial.

Manual intervention as opposed to no intervention. What price
libnss-mdns?
> 
> >  * Any "visitor" machines that are temporarily added to your network will
> >need to be configured manually, and they will have zero knowledge of
> >the other hosts on the network.  Even if you know their names, there
> >won't be any DNS in which you can look up their addresses.
> 
> This can be an advantage. I don't need or want visitors' cell phones 
> accessing my
> machines willy nilly.

You obviously do not trust your network setup sufficiently to allow
access to it from other devices. Something to be attemded to.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Hyper-typematic and Firefox responsiveness in Weston.

[peter]

From: Andrei POPESCU 
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:15:56 +0100
> According to the manpage '--display' is an X11 option.
> 
> Could it be that it actually forces Firefox to run via XWayland or so?

I should find a way to know the variant of FF which is running.  
Xwayland or weston native.

Before pursuing that, I've put the stderr output from weston at 
http://easthope.ca/WestonStdErr . Plain ASCII text.  Firefox opens it.

Lines toward the end merit attention.

* Beginning at [14:32:22.019] ... Microsoft 3-Button Mouse with IntelliEye ... 
events have been lost. 

* [14:32:28.210] ... Microsoft 3-Button Mouse ... rate limit exceeded (5 msgs 
per 30s). ...

5 msgs per 30s exceeds a rate limit in a computer?  Granted this is an 
old machine but it's a computer not an abacus.

The observed hyper-typematic behaviour is related to lost mouse events?

A bug report is materializing but further ideas welcome.

Thx,   ... P.

-- 
mobile: +1 778 951 5147
  VoIP: +1 604 670 0140
   48.7693 N 123.3053 W

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Brian]

On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 12:52:27 -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:09:27 +
> Brian  wrote:
> 
> > What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> > file as opposed to more modern techniques?
> 
> By "more modern techniques" I will assume you mean DHCP and DNS.
> 
> Hosts files are simple, easy to do. They have to be propagated and
> maintained, so they are obnoxious from time to time.

I was rather hoping for some mention of the role of Avahi and 
libnss-mdns on the local network amd its minimal maintenamce.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 23.01.2022 23:36, local10 wrote:

Hi,

Based on the log records (see below) it looks like systemd is regularly 
starting Firefox. I don't recall setting up anything like that, so why is 
systemd doing it?

Thanks

# cat /var/log/syslog
...
Jan 23 06:31:37 test systemd[922]: Started Firefox ESR - Web Browser.
...
Jan 23 06:31:53 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-bcb63a3a10404a7fa8443768412b385a.scope: Succeeded.
Jan 23 06:31:53 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-bcb63a3a10404a7fa8443768412b385a.scope: Consumed 4.746s CPU 
time.
Jan 23 08:05:28 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-512a87e34cb047e0ace37d7988d04f1b.scope: Succeeded.
Jan 23 08:05:28 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-512a87e34cb047e0ace37d7988d04f1b.scope: Consumed 2h 43min 
45.540s CPU time.
Jan 23 08:05:31 test systemd[922]: Started Firefox ESR - Web Browser.
...
Jan 23 09:42:17 test dbus-daemon[430]: [system] Activating via systemd: service 
name='org.freedesktop.hostname1' unit='dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service' requested 
by ':1.829' (uid=1007 pid=53514 comm="/usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr 
-ProfileManager ")
Jan 23 09:43:38 test dbus-daemon[430]: [system] Activating via systemd: service 
name='org.freedesktop.hostname1' unit='dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service' requested 
by ':1.833' (uid=1007 pid=53514 comm="/usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr 
-ProfileManager ")
...

# systemctl list-units | grep -i firefox


# cat /etc/debian_version && uname -a
11.2
Linux srv07 5.10.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.92-1 (2022-01-18) x86_64 
GNU/Linux

firefox-esr is installed on my system (Debian 11 with Xfce) as a dependency.
    $ grep -i "firefox" /var/log/syslog
Returns nothing on my system, but I don't use KDE.

Does this command show anything useful when 'firefox-esr' is running?
    $ systemctl --user status

Systemd's manual describes scopes¹ as special units, so for now I think 
this is how KDE runs and manages applications.

It sure looks suspicious in the logs.


¹ https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.scope.html

--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:

> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
> to overturn DAM's decision.
>
> In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
> between Norbert and any other person to disclose these before the GR
> starts and is voted on.
>
> As I already said, but you apparently decided to not read, Ian was not
> part of the decision making at any part, and, apart from the others who
> replied, two DAM members told him it wasn't fine.
>

Sounds sketchy but whatever.  Is there a list of all the horrible things 
Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him? As a 
Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if Debian leadership was 
reasonable in demoting a valuable and long-term developer (because a project 
managed by unreasonable leadership is doomed).

Regards,

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[deloptes]

Andy Smith wrote:

> However, if for your own eccentric reasons you insist:
> 
> # echo 'net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1' > /etc/sysctl.d/disableipv6.conf
> 
> will disable it from the next boot.
> 
> You can use:
> 
> # sysctl --system
> 
> to re-apply all sysctl configs immediately, so disabling IPv6
> without needing to reboot.

Don't know but I have following there (in /etc/sysctl.conf)

net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1
net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1
net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1

and it does not disable ipv6

# lsmod | grep ipv
ipv6  458752  80 bridge,udp_diag

however when I blacklist module ipv6 - it is gone ;-)

kernel used 4.19.161


-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Norbert Preining]

Hi peb,

> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian
> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide.
> 
> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at
> all, for the forementioned reason.

That remains solely at my discretion. I will happily publish what is
necessary to clarify positions and actions.

Enjoy

Norbert

--
PREINING Norbert  https://www.preining.info
Fujitsu Research +IFMGA Guide +TU Wien+TeX Live
GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 5:43:49 PM EST Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 04:08:34PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally
> > kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?
> 
> You don't need to; having IPv6 active doesn't cause any problem even
> if you don't have a default route that supports IPv6. If it does
> cause a problem then there is a misconfiguration to be solved. You are
> wasting your time and introducing more places where you can make a
> configuration error resulting in yet another of your megathreads¹.
> 
> However, if for your own eccentric reasons you insist:
> 
> # echo 'net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1' >
> /etc/sysctl.d/disableipv6.conf
> 
And thats backwards from setting it in the /proc tree, there a zero in  a 
long path to disable_ipv6 disables it after an /e/i/networking restart.
And I just noticed this is an arm64 build, I need an armhf, where can I 
get that from?

> will disable it from the next boot.
> 
> You can use:
> 
> # sysctl --system
> 
> to re-apply all sysctl configs immediately, so disabling IPv6
> without needing to reboot.
> 
> > This ought to be in a faq somewhere. Except everybody has their own
> > method. :(
> 
> The first google hit for "debian disable IPv6" is:
> 
>
> https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-disable-ipv6-on-de
> bian-9-ubuntu-16-04.html
> 
> which includes the above method. It's not a great page but it does
> contain that info.
> 
> So even this highly unusual requirement has a very easy to find
> solution.
> 
> Regards,
> Andy
> 
> ¹ Your decision to use Debian testing seems likely to generate some
>   more of those threads. But I expect you won't be persuaded to
>   stick with stable.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[RP]

n 1/23/22 13:43, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

local10  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 21:34:19+0100:


Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:


You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?


What actions? Based on the message
( https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it
looks like they came up with the verdict first and then started to
look for "evidence/actions" to justify the verdict. Pretty pathetic if
you ask me but whatever.

Regards,

It *could* look like it, but that's not it.

What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
to overturn DAM's decision.

In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
between Norbert and any other person to disclose these before the GR
starts and is voted on.

As I already said, but you apparently decided to not read, Ian was not
part of the decision making at any part, and, apart from the others who
replied, two DAM members told him it wasn't fine.

You really should look the whole thread, instead of cherry-picking what
serves your idea.


Another case of people needing to be spoon fed.

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 05:26:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 4:28:56 PM EST Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 04:08:34PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings folks;
> > > 
> > > Let me say first that I'm around 150 miles from any ipv6 capable
> > > network, just to get that out of the way.
> > > 
> > > Its booted to a text login and the first thing I did was import a
> > > saved copy of the hosts file, and added rpi4-20220122.coyote.den
> > > with an alias of rpi42 to that file. Then I edited
> > > /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 to set a static address, and added a
> > > dns-nameserver 192.168.xx.1 line to it, my router and gateway, and a
> > > second additional line to set /proc/sys/ net/.../eth0/disable_ipv6
> > > to a 1. And I've checked, disable_ipv6 is now a 1.
> > > 
> > > But that's not enough, ip a, after a /e/i/networking restart, still
> > > shows its active, so I assume its sending its dns request out the
> > > ipv6 portal and my router is a dummy load for anything ipv6. So I
> > > can ping all the local machines, but cannot look up yahoo.com.
> > > 
> > > So question one:
> > > So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally
> > > kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?
> > > 
> > > This ought to be in a FAQ somewhere. Except everybody has their own
> > > method. :(
> > > 
> > > And question 2:
> > > I noticed also, there is not a first user, can I assume the first
> > > time
> > > adduser gets run it will assign him/her/it as user 1000 AND will put
> > > that user into sudoers?
> > > 
> > > Again, this is the 20220121 bookworm.
> > > 
> > > Thanks all.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > 
> > Gene,
> > 
> > a. Debian or Raspberry Pi OS bullseye updated to bookworm?

OK: I checked. That's the Gunnar Wolf "unofficial only because it 
includes non-free firmware" Bookworm from raspi.debian.net / cdimage.debian.org

> > 
> > b. Why testing/Bookworm specifically?
> > 
> cuz I gave up trying to make a realtime kernel work on raspios's 
> bullseye.
> 

As before, you're pretty much on your own with realtime kernels on RPi.
I'd still suggest using stable Debian - so Bullseye - because testing
has the habit of large numbers of changes and you could end up with
problems in the next >1 year until Bookworm is released. And this is
64 bit under Debian - so RaspiOS knowledge won't really help anyway.

> > c. Your machine or somebody else's. If somebody else's, I'd really
> > recommend sticking to Bullseye as more people can help.
> 

See above: you could end up being a long distance support provider. Been
there, done it, got the T-shirt :( Your choices are not necessarily my 
choices, however, and I need to learn to respect that.

> Will be someone else's about 3000 miles west of me. I have 2, 64G u-sd 
> cards I'm installing on but when they work in my machine, will be sent 
> back to him. In the process, I'm using my rpi4 as a test mule.
>  

Quite a distance and possibly a few TZ - not my favourite for tech
support if it goes wrong.

> > Q2. There probably _is_ a first user. If this is Raspberry Pi OS, the
> > first user will be user pi, with gid 1000
> 

OK - so Gunnar's images specifically do _not_ have a first user set up.
They do have a "login for root with no password" / allow ssh as root set up.
That's OK in limited circumstances - you might want to go back and reread
the rationale for Gunnar's decisions. if there's a root user with no password
and effectively autologin, you'll need to rethink that.

> I've looked at /edtc/passwd, pi does not exist in it.
> 

See above

> > Users will only be added to sudo if you do so. if you set up Debian,
> > and explicitly say you do not want a root user / set a blank password
> > then the first user _will_ be added to sudo as a special case.
> > 

See above: if there's a root account set, sudo is pretty much moot.

> > All the very best, as ever,
> 
> While this confirms its Debian's version, built this past Friday for 
> armhf, it does nothing to answer my first question above. The other end 
> user has a similar situation in that he is at least 40 miles from the 
> nearest ipv6 capable connection. To me, this is a pita, if the guys that 
> write the dhcp code would get out of their mothers basement and visit the 
> real world, they would check to see if there was a working dns at its 
> usual ipv6 address, AND REVERT to ipv4 automatically if its not found! 
> The existing situation leaves it up to us to figure out how to disable it 
> unconditionally for every install we do. ipv4 works just fine out here in 
> the puckerbrush, if we can get ipv6 the hell out of the way.
> 

Do you _know_ exactly how his router / DNS / ISP connection is set up _in
advance_ ? A lot of folk have an ISP cable connection where the router
does everything. You can set up the router to provide DNS, acquire hostnames
for each machine, fix IP leases locked to MAC address. 

if he doesn't want to 

Re: Chromium security updates

[Richmond]

Salvatore Bonaccorso  writes:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 07:20:26PM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> On Jo, 20 ian 22, 00:08:52, Richmond wrote:
>> > I see debian 10's chromium is currently on version 90.0.4430.212
>> > (Developer Build), whereas google-chrome is on Version 97.0.4692.99
>> > (Official Build) (64-bit). Does that mean it is out of date and has
>> > security vulnerabilities?
>> > 
>> > https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20updates
>> 
>> The plan was:
>> 
>> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#browser-security
>> 
>> Unfortunately both Firefox and Chromium proved to be much more of a 
>> challenge then expected at the time of releasing Debian 10 "buster" (now 
>> oldstable).
>> 
>> Firefox appears to be in slightly better shape (updated version 
>> available in bullseye/stable, still pending for buster/oldstable).
>
> In fact support for chromium in oldstable has been discontinued, see
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2022/msg00012.html . 
>
> Regards,
> Salvatore

I've built Version 100.0.4845.0 (Developer Build) (64-bit) and it seems
to be working fine here on debian 10.

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 04:08:34PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally 
> kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?

You don't need to; having IPv6 active doesn't cause any problem even
if you don't have a default route that supports IPv6. If it does
cause a problem then there is a misconfiguration to be solved. You are
wasting your time and introducing more places where you can make a
configuration error resulting in yet another of your megathreads¹.

However, if for your own eccentric reasons you insist:

# echo 'net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1' > /etc/sysctl.d/disableipv6.conf

will disable it from the next boot.

You can use:

# sysctl --system

to re-apply all sysctl configs immediately, so disabling IPv6
without needing to reboot.

> This ought to be in a faq somewhere. Except everybody has their own 
> method. :(

The first google hit for "debian disable IPv6" is:


https://www.itzgeek.com/how-tos/linux/debian/how-to-disable-ipv6-on-debian-9-ubuntu-16-04.html

which includes the above method. It's not a great page but it does
contain that info.

So even this highly unusual requirement has a very easy to find
solution.

Regards,
Andy

¹ Your decision to use Debian testing seems likely to generate some
  more of those threads. But I expect you won't be persuaded to
  stick with stable.

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 4:28:56 PM EST Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 04:08:34PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings folks;
> > 
> > Let me say first that I'm around 150 miles from any ipv6 capable
> > network, just to get that out of the way.
> > 
> > Its booted to a text login and the first thing I did was import a
> > saved copy of the hosts file, and added rpi4-20220122.coyote.den
> > with an alias of rpi42 to that file. Then I edited
> > /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 to set a static address, and added a
> > dns-nameserver 192.168.xx.1 line to it, my router and gateway, and a
> > second additional line to set /proc/sys/ net/.../eth0/disable_ipv6
> > to a 1. And I've checked, disable_ipv6 is now a 1.
> > 
> > But that's not enough, ip a, after a /e/i/networking restart, still
> > shows its active, so I assume its sending its dns request out the
> > ipv6 portal and my router is a dummy load for anything ipv6. So I
> > can ping all the local machines, but cannot look up yahoo.com.
> > 
> > So question one:
> > So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally
> > kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?
> > 
> > This ought to be in a FAQ somewhere. Except everybody has their own
> > method. :(
> > 
> > And question 2:
> > I noticed also, there is not a first user, can I assume the first
> > time
> > adduser gets run it will assign him/her/it as user 1000 AND will put
> > that user into sudoers?
> > 
> > Again, this is the 20220121 bookworm.
> > 
> > Thanks all.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> 
> Gene,
> 
> a. Debian or Raspberry Pi OS bullseye updated to bookworm?
> 
> b. Why testing/Bookworm specifically?
> 
cuz I gave up trying to make a realtime kernel work on raspios's 
bullseye.

> c. Your machine or somebody else's. If somebody else's, I'd really
> recommend sticking to Bullseye as more people can help.

Will be someone else's about 3000 miles west of me. I have 2, 64G u-sd 
cards I'm installing on but when they work in my machine, will be sent 
back to him. In the process, I'm using my rpi4 as a test mule.
 
> Q2. There probably _is_ a first user. If this is Raspberry Pi OS, the
> first user will be user pi, with gid 1000

I've looked at /edtc/passwd, pi does not exist in it.

> Users will only be added to sudo if you do so. if you set up Debian,
> and explicitly say you do not want a root user / set a blank password
> then the first user _will_ be added to sudo as a special case.
> 
> All the very best, as ever,

While this confirms its Debian's version, built this past Friday for 
armhf, it does nothing to answer my first question above. The other end 
user has a similar situation in that he is at least 40 miles from the 
nearest ipv6 capable connection. To me, this is a pita, if the guys that 
write the dhcp code would get out of their mothers basement and visit the 
real world, they would check to see if there was a working dns at its 
usual ipv6 address, AND REVERT to ipv4 automatically if its not found! 
The existing situation leaves it up to us to figure out how to disable it 
unconditionally for every install we do. ipv4 works just fine out here in 
the puckerbrush, if we can get ipv6 the hell out of the way.

I'm not frustrated with you Andy. But I think Debian has some pretty 
smart coders who seem to be wearing tunnelvision glasses and can't see 
the bigger picture that exists 5 miles away from the isp's premises.

That's frustrating, and should be fixed. Looking at the acreage where 
ipv6 IS available, I'd guess it is less than 1% of this whole country, 
why shove this down our throat?

> Andy Cater
> 
> 
> 
> .


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

local10  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 21:34:19+0100:

> Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
>
>> You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
>>
>
> What actions? Based on the message
> ( https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it
> looks like they came up with the verdict first and then started to
> look for "evidence/actions" to justify the verdict. Pretty pathetic if
> you ask me but whatever.
>
> Regards,

It *could* look like it, but that's not it.

What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
to overturn DAM's decision.

In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
between Norbert and any other person to disclose these before the GR
starts and is voted on.

As I already said, but you apparently decided to not read, Ian was not
part of the decision making at any part, and, apart from the others who
replied, two DAM members told him it wasn't fine.

You really should look the whole thread, instead of cherry-picking what
serves your idea.

-- 
PEB


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 2:09:27 PM EST Brian wrote:
> On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 13:53:01 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> > > Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it
> > > >> only
> > > >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > > > 
> > > > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he
> > > > can
> > > > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without
> > > > needing
> > > > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> > > 
> > > I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for
> > > well
> > > over a decade, probably closer to two.
> > 
> > And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as
> > one of its clients.
> 
> What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> file as opposed to more modern techniques?

Because every distro has their own way of arriving at a _usually_ works 
dhcp setup, the fixed rules for using a hosts file usually results in 
less need for esoteric knowledge of how a given distro does it, and a far 
more consistently working local net.  We've probably in excess of 60 
machines by now at the tv station I retired from in 2002, and a common 
hosts file similar to my own setup still works fine. The main diff is 
that we bought a block of 16 addresses from a registrar in about 1995, 
and only those machines are network allowed outside of the buildings 
network. Most are sales machines running winderz, so we have had our 
share of viri.  The heart of the system is linux, mostly centos, 
including the inhouse built videoservers, two of which can record 4 hidef 
channels each, while playing 4 other programs to air at the same time.

They Just Work, unlike commercial winderz stuff that BSODs every 3 hours.

dhcp is nice, when it works, but to me it needless complexity and yet 
anther point of failure.  For big systems, its ok, but for under 100 
machines, tain't needed. At about 50 machines, a full time tech is 
needed, if only to clean up the viri in the sales machines.  Gotta keep 
the cash cow fresh you know. ;o)

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[deloptes]

gene heskett wrote:

> Greetings folks;
> 
> Let me say first that I'm around 150 miles from any ipv6 capable network,
> just to get that out of the way.
> 
> Its booted to a text login and the first thing I did was import a saved
> copy of the hosts file, and added rpi4-20220122.coyote.den with an alias
> of rpi42 to that file. Then I edited /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 to
> set a static address, and added a dns-nameserver 192.168.xx.1 line to it,
> my router and gateway, and a second additional line to set /proc/sys/
> net/.../eth0/disable_ipv6 to a 1. And I've checked, disable_ipv6 is now a
> 1.
> 
> But that's not enough, ip a, after a /e/i/networking restart, still shows
> its active, so I assume its sending its dns request out the ipv6 portal
> and my router is a dummy load for anything ipv6. So I can ping all the
> local machines, but cannot look up yahoo.com.
> 

I'm not sure - I think dns uses mostly ipv6 - but I can't tell for sure. I
have it on my todo list to get familiar with ipv6 and until then I also
refuse to use it.

> So question one:
> So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally
> kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?
> 

AFAIR it is a module (or could be compiled as module) so disabling ipv6 will
nuke it

> This ought to be in a faq somewhere. Except everybody has their own
> method. :(
> 
> And question 2:
> I noticed also, there is not a first user, can I assume the first time
> adduser gets run it will assign him/her/it as user 1000 AND will put that
> user into sudoers?
> 

yes first user will have ID 1000, but I am not sure it is added
automatically to sudoers

> Again, this is the 20220121 bookworm.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 04:08:34PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings folks;
> 
> Let me say first that I'm around 150 miles from any ipv6 capable network, 
> just to get that out of the way.
> 
> Its booted to a text login and the first thing I did was import a saved 
> copy of the hosts file, and added rpi4-20220122.coyote.den with an alias 
> of rpi42 to that file. Then I edited /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 to 
> set a static address, and added a dns-nameserver 192.168.xx.1 line to it, 
> my router and gateway, and a second additional line to set /proc/sys/
> net/.../eth0/disable_ipv6 to a 1. And I've checked, disable_ipv6 is now a 
> 1.
> 
> But that's not enough, ip a, after a /e/i/networking restart, still shows 
> its active, so I assume its sending its dns request out the ipv6 portal 
> and my router is a dummy load for anything ipv6. So I can ping all the 
> local machines, but cannot look up yahoo.com.
> 
> So question one:
> So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally 
> kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?
> 
> This ought to be in a faq somewhere. Except everybody has their own 
> method. :(
> 
> And question 2:
> I noticed also, there is not a first user, can I assume the first time 
> adduser gets run it will assign him/her/it as user 1000 AND will put that 
> user into sudoers?
> 
> Again, this is the 20220121 bookworm.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
>

Gene,

a. Debian or Raspberry Pi OS bullseye updated to bookworm?

b. Why testing/Bookworm specifically?

c. Your machine or somebody else's. If somebody else's, I'd really
recommend sticking to Bullseye as more people can help.

Q2. There probably _is_ a first user. If this is Raspberry Pi OS, the
first user will be user pi, with gid 1000

Users will only be added to sudo if you do so. if you set up Debian,
and explicitly say you do not want a root user / set a blank password
then the first user _will_ be added to sudo as a special case. 

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

 

Re: smartd

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 18:41:36 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

> If wanting to play around with mdraid you can do it with loop
> devices created from image files on your regular filesystem.

Nice, thank you.

One would probably have to install mdadm:

# apt install mdadm


> for i in a b; do sudo losetup -f fake_disk_{$i}.img; done

Typo:

fake_disk_${i}.img

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[gene heskett]

Greetings folks;

Let me say first that I'm around 150 miles from any ipv6 capable network, 
just to get that out of the way.

Its booted to a text login and the first thing I did was import a saved 
copy of the hosts file, and added rpi4-20220122.coyote.den with an alias 
of rpi42 to that file. Then I edited /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0 to 
set a static address, and added a dns-nameserver 192.168.xx.1 line to it, 
my router and gateway, and a second additional line to set /proc/sys/
net/.../eth0/disable_ipv6 to a 1. And I've checked, disable_ipv6 is now a 
1.

But that's not enough, ip a, after a /e/i/networking restart, still shows 
its active, so I assume its sending its dns request out the ipv6 portal 
and my router is a dummy load for anything ipv6. So I can ping all the 
local machines, but cannot look up yahoo.com.

So question one:
So what is the official, works in bookworm every time, way to totally 
kill ipv6, making it use ipv4 for everything?

This ought to be in a faq somewhere. Except everybody has their own 
method. :(

And question 2:
I noticed also, there is not a first user, can I assume the first time 
adduser gets run it will assign him/her/it as user 1000 AND will put that 
user into sudoers?

Again, this is the 20220121 bookworm.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Jim Popovitch]

On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 21:34 +0100, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
> 
> > You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
> > 
> 
> What actions? Based on the message ( 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it looks like 
> they came up with the verdict first and then started to look for 
> "evidence/actions" to justify the verdict. Pretty pathetic if you ask me but 
> whatever.
> 
> Regards,
> 

You're reading it wrong.  Ian was not part of the decision.

-Jim P.

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:

> You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
>

What actions? Based on the message ( 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it looks like 
they came up with the verdict first and then started to look for 
"evidence/actions" to justify the verdict. Pretty pathetic if you ask me but 
whatever.

Regards,

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 19:15 by songb...@anthive.com:

> what desktop are you running?
>
>  it may be set up in your desktop to automatically be started.
>

Am using KDE. Don't have any tasks in KDE Autostart.

Regards,

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Felix Miata]

Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 15:01 (UTC-0500):

>  * After a change is made, it has to be replicated across your entire
>network.  Manually.

But trivial.

>  * Any "visitor" machines that are temporarily added to your network will
>need to be configured manually, and they will have zero knowledge of
>the other hosts on the network.  Even if you know their names, there
>won't be any DNS in which you can look up their addresses.

This can be an advantage. I don't need or want visitors' cell phones accessing 
my
machines willy nilly.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 14:10, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
> 
>> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
>> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>>
>>  > 
>> https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining=or=Gdebian-project==10
>>
> 
> 
> This one is pretty telling:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html
> 
> If I were one of the Debian developers I'd rethink if I want to continue 
> contributing to a project where the developers are treated in such a way.
> 
You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
> Regards,
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

local10  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 20:10:26+0100:

> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
>
>> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
>> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>>
>>  > 
>> https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining=or=Gdebian-project==10
>>
>
>
> This one is pretty telling:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html
>
> If I were one of the Debian developers I'd rethink if I want to
> continue contributing to a project where the developers are treated in
> such a way.
>
> Regards,

Ian, who was not part of the decision to expel Norbert, went off road,
and you can see that many reminded him that, including DAM members (who
were the ones having decided to remove Norbert from Debian at first):

https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00181.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00184.html

I find this pretty telling, too, but of course, you probably just
accidentally missed it.

-- 
PEB

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 08:53, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> 
> [Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]
> 
>> This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure.
>> If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith.
>>
>> The basis of community based software is pretty simple :
>> If you ain't happy you have two possibility
>> 1. Use something else
>> 2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed
>>
>> That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL.
>>
>> No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your
>> mind.
>>
>> Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ?
>>
>> Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't
>> you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software
>> meet your need.
>>
>> I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will
>> be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and
>> all the problems you expect other to do for you.
>>
> 
> The basis of community based software is contributing consstructively to 
> the community, as you've outlined. Debian is a volunteer organisation -
> we can't force people to contribute. When they do, we ask them to be 
> constructive - to disagree with positive intent and not to dig at each
> other - not to push people's buttons just because you can.
> 
> That often fails - but we try to make a helpful, constructive atmosphere.
> Everyone can get frustrated, annoyed that someone just isn't seeing their
> point - angry - at some time or other but that isn't helpful in the long term.
> 
> Much of Debian is text based communications: all sorts of people in all sorts
> of situations and it's easy to propagate misunderstandings. On the
> (increasingly) rare occasions when we get together for something like a 
> Debconf - we discover we're also a social organisation of real people.
> You get to see people and hear them - or think "Wow, XYZ is a giant" or
> "Hey ABC has multi-coloured hair - wow, I didn't know that from their 
> avatar" 
> 
> We get people sharing with the lists that they're sick in some way, we
> mourn with the families of our colleagues who die - we're human. We 
> get to be happy when people show photos of their brand new baby, or their
> hobby - they become three-dimensional. Text messages don't show that -
> but attitudes do. With enough time, you flesh out real people behind
> the interactions. 
> 
>> -- 
>> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 
You resume it quite right, for community software to go forward there's
a need to have a higher demand on a Code of Conduct and other "social
standards" because the software is socially built if I can say it this way.

This oppose to commercial software or commercial companies. If you don't
like much your job, you'll still contribute because your pay is needed
for you to pay groceries and your home.

When you give your energy to a community based project, you get two
things back. The first is some work done and the second is pride in what
you do. That's it.
Yes in some case maybe your boss benefits from what you contribute to a
project but that's in no way linked to the project itself. This applies
if the business your work for kind of loan you as employee to put hours
on the project.

But even there, there's a even better need for cooperation and this can
only be enforced one way. With a code of conduct.

No one want to invest time in any project to get back a basket of
comment of the type :
There's the red army around
All the problems in the world are caused by democrats
The world is doomed...
etc.

If we'd want such type of comment then we'd watch TV and choose of the
appropriate channel to meet our expectation.

The goal if to have a safe space for everyone to be able to contribute.

Not everyone has the infinite patience you have.

There was a time we'd keep toxic people because they we're good
contributor or had good skills. Now we discovered that this cause more
problem on the long term and even less productivity because other don't
want to join.

This is not part of what's called the past on the line of time.

Thanks for the good work.
> With every good wish, as ever,
> 
> Andrew Cater
> 
> [For and on behalf of the Community Team]
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 07:09:27PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 13:53:01 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> > > Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only
> > > >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > > > 
> > > > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> > > > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
> > > > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> > > 
> > > I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well
> > > over a decade, probably closer to two.
> > 
> > And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as one 
> > of its clients.
> 
> What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> file as opposed to more modern techniques?

I'll treat this question as "static interface configuration and hosts
files".

The advantage is that it's conceptually simpler.

The disadvantages are numerous.

 * Adding a new host, or changing a host's IP address, requires
   platform-specific knowledge on the host in question.  On a
   heterogeneous network, that means you need knowledge of how to do
   this on all the different platforms.  This may include devices like
   printers, where it's quite difficult, maybe even impossible, to
   configure an address without DHCP.

 * After a change is made, it has to be replicated across your entire
   network.  Manually.

 * Any "visitor" machines that are temporarily added to your network will
   need to be configured manually, and they will have zero knowledge of
   the other hosts on the network.  Even if you know their names, there
   won't be any DNS in which you can look up their addresses.

For anyone setting up a new home network, I'd recommend using DHCP.  It
will be a lot simpler in the long run, especially if you start adding
wireless devices (cell phones, tablets, TV streaming devices, etc.).
Your router probably already acts as a DHCP server, so all you need to
do is learn how to configure fixed addresses for specific computers (and
printers) that want to act like servers.  The other devices can just get
random addresses.  Guest machines can just be connected and start working
without issues.

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:10:26PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
> 
> > On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> > I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
> > there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
> >
> >  > 
> > https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining=or=Gdebian-project==10
> >
> 
> 
> This one is pretty telling:

[...]

I don't know what you want to achieve with this. You don't like Debian?
Either participate and help to change it -- or shut up and go away. What
you are doing looks a lot like... trolling.

> If I were one of the Debian developers I'd rethink if I want to continue 
> contributing to a project where the developers are treated in such a way.

You aren't, so the question doesn't pose itself, does it?

Now I'll stop. I might be feeding the troll otherwise.

(And oh, whoever wants to get a more thorough impression: look through all
the thread, and not just through the one message cherry-picked for you).

Cheers
-- 
tomás


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 08:16, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:56, Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hi Mick,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> > > I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
>>> > > software
>>> > > got removed from the repository because of variable names.
>>> >
>>> > If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
>>> > removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.
>>> >
>>> > This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
>>> > software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784
>>>
>>>
>>> That'll be it.
>>
>> Thanks for confirming. So would you like to retract your statement
>> that it was removed "because of variable names"?
>>
>> And hopefully now that's cleared up you will feel better about
>> Debian's direction of travel.
>>
> 
> If you insist on continuing with this I haven't seen the code that was
> removed and no idea what it does.
> The reports at the time were that it was removed for sexist type
> variable names.
> Was it removed then for Anglo Saxon expletives in the comments ?
I'm just reading the thread and I was able to spot the answer of your
question. You can even spot it yourself... It's some line higher in the
message. Let me copy it for you, so it's easy :

-- This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with
-- thissoftware (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through
-- warning):
--
https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784

Either one of two things :
You don't speak English (where I doubt it's the case)
You lack in good faith in your exchange on the channel.

This make it very annoying for people to see such acting out.
And doesn't help much in progressing any type of debate.

I have no idea what are your plan to reach down the road but you may get
much more than you expect.

> 
> mick

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:09:27 +
Brian  wrote:

> What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> file as opposed to more modern techniques?

By "more modern techniques" I will assume you mean DHCP and DNS.

Hosts files are simple, easy to do. They have to be propagated and
maintained, so they are obnoxious from time to time.

With no DHCP, you have to had configure each host's network interface,
usually at installation time, or when you introduce a computer to your
network. This isn't always possible.

Also, you will still need a DNS client on each machine so they can
resolve external host names.

DNS and DHCP require a lot more configuration up front. But once they
are done, that can be all you have to do, and you shouldn't have to do
anything at installation or introduction time. You can use DHCP to
assign fixed IP addresses to some (or all) hosts, but that means some
one-time configuration.

A side benefit of running your own DNS server is that your hosts look
to it, rather than to your ISP's server, which usually means faster
turn-around time for lookups.

Which is easier depends in part on how many hosts you have at any one
time, what they are, and how often new ones arrived. These days, new
arrivals may also mean guests' mobile phones and laptops.

It may also mean "smart" gadgets. I have a pressure cooker on my
network, and I doubt the creators of DNS had those in mind way back
when. I don't think my pressure cooker has any way to manually
configure its IP address, so it pretty well requires DHCP.

If I were running an internet cafe or a computer repair shop, I would
insist on DHCP and DNS. At the other end of the scale, if you only have
a few machines and don't care about your guests' machines or "smart"
gadgets, a hosts file may be simpler.

I hope that provides some guidance.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[songbird]

  what desktop are you running?

  it may be set up in your desktop to automatically be started.


  songbird

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[local10]

Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:

> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
>>
>>
> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>
>  > 
> https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining=or=Gdebian-project==10
>


This one is pretty telling:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html

If I were one of the Debian developers I'd rethink if I want to continue 
contributing to a project where the developers are treated in such a way.

Regards,

Re: chromium , google-chrome : ingérables avec Bullseye : résolu

[ajh-valmer]

Bonsoir,

Ce n'est pas Bullseye qui en était responsable,
il fallait invalider l'option "3D-acceleration" dans les paramètres
de Chromium et Chrome, ma carte doit être trop vieille,
et aussi, module pas vraiment adapté.
Désolé, excuses, j'aurais pu le trouver par moi-même avant.

Quelle carte vidéo Nvidia ou ATI est bien reconnue par Linux ?

Merci à tous ceux qui m'ont aidé.

A. Valmer

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Brian]

On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 13:53:01 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> > Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only
> > >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > > 
> > > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> > > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
> > > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> > 
> > I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well
> > over a decade, probably closer to two.
> 
> And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as one 
> of its clients.

What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
file as opposed to more modern techniques?

-- 
Brian.

Why is systemd starting Firefox?

[local10]

Hi,

Based on the log records (see below) it looks like systemd is regularly 
starting Firefox. I don't recall setting up anything like that, so why is 
systemd doing it?

Thanks

# cat /var/log/syslog
...
Jan 23 06:31:37 test systemd[922]: Started Firefox ESR - Web Browser.
...
Jan 23 06:31:53 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-bcb63a3a10404a7fa8443768412b385a.scope: Succeeded.
Jan 23 06:31:53 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-bcb63a3a10404a7fa8443768412b385a.scope: Consumed 4.746s CPU 
time.
Jan 23 08:05:28 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-512a87e34cb047e0ace37d7988d04f1b.scope: Succeeded.
Jan 23 08:05:28 test systemd[922]: 
app-firefox\x2desr-512a87e34cb047e0ace37d7988d04f1b.scope: Consumed 2h 43min 
45.540s CPU time.
Jan 23 08:05:31 test systemd[922]: Started Firefox ESR - Web Browser.
...
Jan 23 09:42:17 test dbus-daemon[430]: [system] Activating via systemd: service 
name='org.freedesktop.hostname1' unit='dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service' 
requested by ':1.829' (uid=1007 pid=53514 
comm="/usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -ProfileManager ")
Jan 23 09:43:38 test dbus-daemon[430]: [system] Activating via systemd: service 
name='org.freedesktop.hostname1' unit='dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service' 
requested by ':1.833' (uid=1007 pid=53514 
comm="/usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -ProfileManager ")
...

# systemctl list-units | grep -i firefox


# cat /etc/debian_version && uname -a
11.2
Linux srv07 5.10.0-11-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.92-1 (2022-01-18) x86_64 
GNU/Linux

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only
> >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > 
> > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
> > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> 
> I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well
> over a decade, probably closer to two.

And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as one 
of its clients.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: firefox and limited bookmarks. WTH?

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 10:56:20 AM EST David Wright wrote:
> On Sat 22 Jan 2022 at 21:07:17 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > Thanks for backing me up Cindy. I found I did not own the .mozilla/
> > firefox directory but a recursive chown -R gene:gene * did not fix
> > it.
> 
> Who or what /did/ own it? That might help you determine how this
> bizarre situation arose.

1001:backup, which the 1001 would have been the user amanda, the backup 
program on the old install the @&$#%* shingled drive ate that started all 
this bs.

I've since chown'd it back to me but I've not added any bookmarks to test 
since.

I''m also up to my gizzard trying to build a fully preemptible kernel for 
an rpi4 as I've a friend in the other end of the country who wants to run 
a couple ton of cinci milling machine with it. I can build it using raspi 
instructions, but it won't boot when installed. So I'm mid process of 
seeing if I can make it work on yesterdays bookworm build.

Pre-occupied is the word.  And I need a browser that holds bookmarks.

Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Marco Möller]

On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 08:29:42PM +0100, Marco Möller wrote:

On 22.01.22 15:24, songbird wrote:

Thomas Schmitt wrote:
...

When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
conflict.
This mail by Norbert Preining

https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html

describes his view on his demotion from Debian Developer to Debian
Maintainer by the  Debian Account Mangers (DAM) initiated by the
Anti Harassment team (AH, now Community team).
His mail quotes some of their mails. The follow-ups contain replies by
the other side of this conflict.

I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
there, but i did not explore 900 matches of


https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining=or=Gdebian-project==10


Have a nice day :)


excellent reply and pretty much my own feelings on the matter
too.  :)

if people want to keep trolling on the matter it's all fine with
me but it doubtful it will shed any more light in relation to how
much heat it will give off for not much gain.


songbird



Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am
sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to
things distinguishable.

Being a grateful user of Debian, and being in my circle of influence a
strong advocate of the Debian project, and also of the KDE Plasma desktop
environment as available in Debian, I do not feel it to be, lets say,
insolent, if interested in community affairs. Actually, I feel it desirable
to stay well informed for reinforcing advocacy, and asking for transparency
is to me a coherent step.

I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to not
provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given off
obstructively.
As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation. Some of
these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly also
questioning if community processes are always taking place sufficiently
transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from one party. This
could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement from somebody in the
Debian project with insights into the issue could prevent Debian from bad
repute by declassifying which are the positions of the present disagreement.

Best wishes,
Marco



On behalf of DAM - the Debian Account Managers - the brief statement follows:



Norbert's status as Debian Developer has been officially withdrawn after
repeated  violations of the Debian Code of Conduct. An appeal process was also
initiated and has concluded. It upheld the withdrawal of the Debian Developer
status.

That withdrawal does not prevent him from making contributions to the Debian
Project. However, it's entirely understandable that he might choose to leave
the community instead. That is a decision we must respect, and I'd ask you to
do so as well.

=

With every good wish,

Andrew Cater



Dear Andrew, Dear Debian Account Managers,
I thank you very much for your public response. It is much appreciated, 
and not only because of the clear information, that in this particular 
case the position of both parties is now public, but specially also 
because you answered here on the list to me even though I am simply a 
normal user.
We all know that facing controversy with users and with contributors is 
a very tough task. You earn my full respect for publicly standing up and 
defending the project.


A suggestion which you might want to discuss in the committee(s): maybe 
you can consider if in the balancing act between privacy and 
transparency there could be space for a bulletin board where the Debian 
project publishes by internal committees taken decisions which are 
likely to be of interest for the broader community. Maybe on 
https://www.debian.org/intro/index#community in the "Debian is a 
Community" column is space for another link "Committee Notifications", 
or opening a list "debian-committee-announce". The present 
https://micronews.debian.org/ "Debian micronews" could stay reserved for 
the technical news, while the suggested notification location would 
publish community related news. Well, nothing which shall be discussed 
here in this thread, just my suggestion to the Debian project.


Thanks a lot, for your above provided response and also for Debian,
Best wishes,
Marco

Re: smartd

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 07:09:48PM +0100, Linux-Fan wrote:
> To really profit from the enhanced reliability, you need to play
> through the recovery scenario, too. I recommend doing this in a VM
> unless you have some dedicated machine with at least two HDDs to
> play with.

If wanting to play around with mdraid you can do it with loop
devices created from image files on your regular filesystem.

$ cd /var/tmp
$ for i in a b; do fallocate -l 100M fake_disk_${i}.img; done
$ for i in a b; do sudo losetup -f fake_disk_{$i}.img; done
$ sudo mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 
/dev/loop[01]
$ sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/md0
$ sudo mount /dev/md0 /mnt

You can then practice removing, adding, failing etc. the loop devices.

When done playing around just unmount, stop array, losetup -d each loop
device then delete the files.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Felix Miata]

Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):

> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

>> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only 
>> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.

> If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
> to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.

I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well over a
decade, probably closer to two.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: smartd

[Linux-Fan]

pe...@easthope.ca writes:


From: Andy Smith 
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:07:23 +
> ... you use RAID.

I knew nothing of RAID.  Therefore read here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Reliability is more valuable to me than speed.  RAID 0 won't help.
For reliability I need a mirrored 2nd drive in the host; RAID 1 or
higher.

Google of "site:wiki.debian.org raid" returned ten pages, each quite
specialized and jargonified.  A few tips to establish mirroring can
help.


Here, it returns a few results, too. I think the most straight-forward is  
this one:


https://wiki.debian.org/SoftwareRAID

For most purposes, I recommend RAID1. If you have four HDDs of identical  
size, RAID10 might be tempting, too, but I'd still consider and possibly  
prefer just creating two independent RAID1 arrays.


If you want to configure it from the installer, these step-by-step  
instructions show all the relevant installer screens:


https://sleeplessbeastie.eu/2013/10/04/how-to-configure-software-raid1-during-installation-process/

Also, keep in mind that establishing the mirroring is not all you need to  
do. To really profit from the enhanced reliability, you need to play through  
the recovery scenario, too. I recommend doing this in a VM unless you have  
some dedicated machine with at least two HDDs to play with.


[...]

HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö


pgp1HGhRHorQN.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Kodi (SID)

[SDA]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 09:47:31AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 22 ian 22, 15:41:37, SDA wrote:
> > Greetings!
> > 
> > The past week or so, up until today Kodi has been segfaulting on me - 
> > Anyone 
> > else?
> > Starting from a term:
> > 
> > failed to open zone.tab
> > libva info: VA-API version 1.13.0
> > libva info: Trying to open /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/r600_drv_video.so
> > libva info: Found init function __vaDriverInit_1_13
> > libva info: va_openDriver() returns 0
> > Segmentation fault
> > 
> > So, appears to be a video driver issue ...
> > file via reportbug. Haven't rec'd bug# yet. Will update when rec'd.
>  
> Do you have the firmware for your video card installed?
> 
> dmesg | grep -i firmware
> 
> (needs sudo or root)

Hi Andre, thanks for responding. I have attached a stack trace to my bug 
report.
But yes, I expect this is affirmative according to dmesg:

0.271260] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
[0.277570] acpi PNP0A08:00: [Firmware Info]: MMCONFIG for domain  [bus 
00-3f] only partially covers this bridge
[1.305909] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/pitcairn_pfp.bin
[1.305917] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/pitcairn_me.bin
[1.305925] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/pitcairn_ce.bin
[1.305933] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/pitcairn_rlc.bin
[1.305943] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/si58_mc.bin
[1.305956] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/pitcairn_k_smc.bin
[1.316035] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/TAHITI_uvd.bin
[1.316051] radeon :03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/TAHITI_vce.bin
[1.316212] [drm] Found VCE firmware/feedback version 50.0.1 / 17!
[5.916462] platform regulatory.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
regulatory.db
[5.916761] platform regulatory.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
regulatory.db.p7s
[5.961527] iwlwifi :04:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
iwlwifi-9260-th-b0-jf-b0-46.ucode
[5.961787] iwlwifi :04:00.0: loaded firmware version 46.6b541b68.0 
9260-th-b0-jf-b0-46.ucode op_mode iwlmvm
[6.277082] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
intel/ibt-18-16-1.sfi
[6.277085] Bluetooth: hci0: Found device firmware: intel/ibt-18-16-1.sfi
[6.277093] Bluetooth: hci0: Firmware Version: 6-12.21
[6.277094] Bluetooth: hci0: Firmware already loaded
[6.500794] cx25840 14-0044: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
v4l-cx23885-avcore-01.fw
[7.138158] cx25840 14-0044: loaded v4l-cx23885-avcore-01.fw firmware (16382 
bytes)
[7.449970] r8169 :05:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw

Re: smartd

[peter]

From: Andy Smith 
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:07:23 +
> ... you use RAID.

I knew nothing of RAID.  Therefore read here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Reliability is more valuable to me than speed.  RAID 0 won't help.  
For reliability I need a mirrored 2nd drive in the host; RAID 1 or 
higher.

Google of "site:wiki.debian.org raid" returned ten pages, each quite 
specialized and jargonified.  A few tips to establish mirroring can 
help.

> If this drive is in use already then you possibly want to know which
> files are affected by these bad sectors. I hope none, because you
> use RAID. But if you need to know, I have done that before and can
> dig out the scripts…

Seems more efficient to establish good reliability.  Then, if a drive 
fails, recycle and replace.

Thanks,... P.



-- 
mobile: +1 778 951 5147
  VoIP: +1 604 670 0140
   48.7693 N 123.3053 W

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:31:29AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100
>  wrote:

[...]

> > This is not helpful [...]

> This isn't very helpful either. What we have here is a difference in
> world view. At least one of you is (and possibly both are) wrong.

You are most probably right on that :)

> Neither of you will change the other's mind.

...and almost surely right on that.

> Now, can we kindly stop wasting time and hard drive storage, and get
> back to discussing Debian software?

Agreed.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: smartd

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:14:06AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:09:47 +
> Andy Smith  wrote:
> 
> > Yes. When a drive sector goes bad, the drive cannot read from it, so
> > you get an error in Linux when a read is attempted.
> 
> As I understand things, that isn't entirely correct. From what I
> understand:
> 
> If the drive can read a sector without error, it passes the data to the
> OS and that's it.
> 
> If it gets an error, it uses cyclical redundancy check (CRC) data to
> reconstruct the data. If that fails, it reports an error to the OS. If
> the CRC reconstruction is successful, the drive re-writes the sector
> and passes the reconstructed data back to the OS.

It is actually more complicated as this. As I understand this Wikipedia
entry [1], some errors while reading a block are to be expected: it
seems to be more profitable to push the density to the limit where error
correction picks up some rest. Only when the error rate surpasses some
threshold the block is remapped.

I guess SMART counts the latter events, but actually I have no idea :)

And the error correction codes are a bit more sophisticated than plain
CRC: Reed-Solomon or, more modern, low-density parity-check codes.

Cheers
-- 
tomás


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: firefox and limited bookmarks. WTH?

[David Wright]

On Sat 22 Jan 2022 at 21:07:17 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:

> Thanks for backing me up Cindy. I found I did not own the .mozilla/
> firefox directory but a recursive chown -R gene:gene * did not fix it.

Who or what /did/ own it? That might help you determine how this
bizarre situation arose.

Cheers,
David.

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[David Wright]

On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 08:50:56 (+0100), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 22 ian 22, 20:07:45, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > Because the basic /etc/hosts file looks something like:
> > 
> >   127.0.0.1 localhost
> >   192.168.1.1   router.corp router
> >   192.168.1.2   cascade.corpcascade
> >   127.0.1.1 acer.corp   acer# 192.168.1.10
> >   # The following lines are desirable for IPv6 capable hosts
> >   ::1 localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
> >   ff02::1 ip6-allnodes
> >   ff02::2 ip6-allrouters
> > 
> > and the hostname, acer, will be different on each host.
> 
> Instead of listing the machine's name with 127.0.1.1 I'm using it's 
> actual IP (like the one you have in the comment). 
> 
> Any potential issues I should be aware of?

Yes, and ISTR its being discussed on d-u perhaps 20 years ago.
It means that software can get the hostname resolved to an IP
address a) before DNS is running, and b) before any interfaces
are configured, or when they fail to get configured at all.
Otherwise, you get a response to ping, say, like:
  ping: connect: Network is unreachable
instead of a response from the loopback address.

> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only 
> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.

The idea of the script is to make sharing it as trivial as using
scp directly. And if you use sneakernet to transfer the master
file and the script, the latter should still work, because Debian
sets up 127.0.1.1 at installation time.

Cheers,
David.

Re: smartd

[peter]

> You should do a backup ASAP.

Personal data is on a micro SD card.  After doing something worth 
saving it's backed to the host drive by me running this bash script .

Backup() { \
 if [ "$#" -gt 1 ]; then
   echo "Too many arguments.";
 else
   echo "0 or 1 arguments are OK.";
   if [ "$#" -eq 0 ]; then
 echo "0 arguments is OK.";
 destination=~/MY0.Bak;
 echo "destination is $destination.";
   else
 echo "1 argument is OK.";
 destination=~/MY1.Bak;
 echo "destination is $destination.";
   fi;
 echo "Executing rsync.";
 rsync \
  -auv /home/peter/MY/* $destination ;
 /bin/ls -ld ~/MY/MailMessages;
 printf "du -s $destination gives ";
 du -s $destination;
  fi;
}

"ls ... MailMessages" just reminds me to clean the mailbox.

The SD is used in multiple machines at two sites.  So my data is 
fairly well protected.  

If the SD fails, an inverse script restores data from a host drive, to 
a new SD.

If a meteorite goes through a machine, I get the holes in the case 
welded up and replace destroyed internals.  If the drive is replaced, 
I reinstall and configure the system.  A nuisance but not a catastrophe.

If an asteroid or meteorite shower or volcano destroys the SD card and 
all machines where it's backed, and I survive, data probably won't be 
a high priority but I can look for an old backup DVD.

Thx,... P.



-- 
mobile: +1 778 951 5147
  VoIP: +1 604 670 0140
   48.7693 N 123.3053 W

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100
 wrote:

> > Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The
> > liberal  hijacked Debian [...]  
> 
> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark
> Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM).

This isn't very helpful either. What we have here is a difference in
world view. At least one of you is (and possibly both are) wrong.
Neither of you will change the other's mind.

Now, can we kindly stop wasting time and hard drive storage, and get
back to discussing Debian software?

Thank you.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: smartd

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:09:47 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

> Yes. When a drive sector goes bad, the drive cannot read from it, so
> you get an error in Linux when a read is attempted.

As I understand things, that isn't entirely correct. From what I
understand:

If the drive can read a sector without error, it passes the data to the
OS and that's it.

If it gets an error, it uses cyclical redundancy check (CRC) data to
reconstruct the data. If that fails, it reports an error to the OS. If
the CRC reconstruction is successful, the drive re-writes the sector
and passes the reconstructed data back to the OS.

If the attempt to re-write the sector fails, the drive allocates a
spare sector, writes that, and notes the mapping in it sector
reallocation table.

There may be multiple efforts to re-write a sector, either in place or
reallocated.

And there's always the possibility that the sector reallocation table
will go bad.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> Just a note, he's not 30

https://people.debian.org/~peb/resume.html

but I stop as it is unbearable ... and I am not sure who is playing the
fool.
You are just digging the grave for this awesome project and I hope I am
wrong. But it could be just evolution happening infront of our eyes (well
for those who still can clearly see where it is going)

BR

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[Greg Wooledge]

> > > > This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
> > > > software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
> > > >
> > > > https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784

> If you insist on continuing with this I haven't seen the code that was
> removed and no idea what it does.

You will need to open the URL in a Javascript-enabled browser.  Once
you've done so, you can scroll down through the page to see what the
proposed changes were.  This shows you the "before" and "after".  The
"before" sections are the code which was considered offensive.

> The reports at the time were that it was removed for sexist type variable
> names.
> Was it removed then for Anglo Saxon expletives in the comments ?

No.  Nobody really cares about the word "fucking".

It was all about the homophobia.

There's also one user-visible piece of homophobia.  It's in the last
section -- an actual message written to the terminal or wherever.

For more details about Debian's decision, see
.

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 05:59:40AM -0500, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote:
> > Marco Möller wrote:
> > 
[Marco Moeller]
> >> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to
> >> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given
> >> off obstructively.
> > 

I provided this late lat night UTC - it was posted on behalf of DAM and
is in this list - subject line starts [SUMMARY STATEMENT]

[deloptes]

> > I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
> > future. Not because I care that much about the  CoC, but because the
> > ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
> > expected quality.
> 

Debian has always been ideologically motivated for the 26+ years I've used it.
Most of the ideology has been around creating a good Linux distribution
based around Free software. Our ideology on licence terms is well known.
The Debian Free Software Guidelines and Social Contract have been out
there as our gold standard. if you're a Debian maintainer or developer,
you're expected to sign up to these as part of the conditions of holding 
that status.

Likewise the Code of Conduct: most projects now have a Code of Conduct
attached to them. This one was voted on and accepted by the Debian 
developer community. It's fairly straightforward: I reference it in 
the FAQ posted here monthly. 

Much of it comes down to treating people with respect and being constructive.
This series of posts from you is on the edge of acceptable. Please consider
that this list is publicly archived all over the place: please also
consider that this list, Debian IRC channels and other Debian media
are governed by the Code of Conduct.

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

> This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure.
> If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith.
> 
> The basis of community based software is pretty simple :
> If you ain't happy you have two possibility
> 1. Use something else
> 2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed
> 
> That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL.
> 
> No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your
> mind.
> 
> Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ?
> 
> Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't
> you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software
> meet your need.
> 
> I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will
> be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and
> all the problems you expect other to do for you.
> 

The basis of community based software is contributing consstructively to 
the community, as you've outlined. Debian is a volunteer organisation -
we can't force people to contribute. When they do, we ask them to be 
constructive - to disagree with positive intent and not to dig at each
other - not to push people's buttons just because you can.

That often fails - but we try to make a helpful, constructive atmosphere.
Everyone can get frustrated, annoyed that someone just isn't seeing their
point - angry - at some time or other but that isn't helpful in the long term.

Much of Debian is text based communications: all sorts of people in all sorts
of situations and it's easy to propagate misunderstandings. On the
(increasingly) rare occasions when we get together for something like a 
Debconf - we discover we're also a social organisation of real people.
You get to see people and hear them - or think "Wow, XYZ is a giant" or
"Hey ABC has multi-coloured hair - wow, I didn't know that from their 
avatar" 

We get people sharing with the lists that they're sick in some way, we
mourn with the families of our colleagues who die - we're human. We 
get to be happy when people show photos of their brand new baby, or their
hobby - they become three-dimensional. Text messages don't show that -
but attitudes do. With enough time, you flesh out real people behind
the interactions. 

> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

With every good wish, as ever,

Andrew Cater

[For and on behalf of the Community Team]

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Sb, 22 ian 22, 20:07:45, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > Because the basic /etc/hosts file looks something like:
> > 
> >   127.0.0.1 localhost
> >   192.168.1.1   router.corp router
> >   192.168.1.2   cascade.corpcascade
> >   127.0.1.1 acer.corp   acer# 192.168.1.10
> >   # The following lines are desirable for IPv6 capable hosts
> >   ::1 localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
> >   ff02::1 ip6-allnodes
> >   ff02::2 ip6-allrouters
> > 
> > and the hostname, acer, will be different on each host.
> 
> Instead of listing the machine's name with 127.0.1.1 I'm using it's 
> actual IP (like the one you have in the comment). 
> 
> Any potential issues I should be aware of?
> 
> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only 
> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.

If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.

In terms of operation, the main difference as far as I understand it
is that a connection to "acer" (or whatever your system's own name is)
will be directed to the ethernet interface instead of the loopback
interface.  So, if you've got a daemon that's only bound to loopback,
you would need to contact it via the name "localhost" rather than the
system's name.  Whereas in the regular Debian setup that has 127.0.1.1
bound to the system's name, either one works.

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

I was not considering keeping up this discussion but it's really too
tempting, so here is a last one!

deloptes  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100:
> I do not know you

But,

> I am fed up of guys like you.


deloptes  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100:
> I do not know you and I do not insult you

Bt,

> you are one of those smart, morally superior *** *


deloptes  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100:
> I do not know you and I do not insult you

BUUT,

> I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously
> you do not.

Honestly, if I were to summarize what I'm feeling right now, it'd be
something like
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PowerfulLegitimateBichonfrise-max-1mb.gif

I'm having a lot of fun, but it's the fourth time in a few hours that
you're making a fool of yourself, and if I were to keep up it would
become quite cringe.

I'll therefore stop there (don't refrain to reply one last time, my
basket is still half full).

But to be clear:

> It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready
> to give such. I am sorry for you.

I never demanded respect from you, and this one is rich, too.

Enjoy your weekend! :)

-- 
PEB
FTAOD for others: Norbert did not leave, he got his Debian Member
status revoked by DAM.

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[mick crane]

On 2022-01-23 11:56, Andy Smith wrote:

Hi Mick,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:

On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> > I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> > software
> > got removed from the repository because of variable names.
>
> If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
> removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.
>
> This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
> software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
>
> 
https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784

That'll be it.


Thanks for confirming. So would you like to retract your statement
that it was removed "because of variable names"?

And hopefully now that's cleared up you will feel better about
Debian's direction of travel.



If you insist on continuing with this I haven't seen the code that was 
removed and no idea what it does.
The reports at the time were that it was removed for sexist type 
variable names.

Was it removed then for Anglo Saxon expletives in the comments ?

mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Andy Smith]

Hi delptes,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 01:30:03PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> I do not know you and I do not insult you

> I am fed up of guys like you.

> you are one of those smart, morally superior *** *, who know they are 
> better.

> I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying

> a full totalitarian system you yourself created

> at the moment any discussion with you is pointless.

> It is disappointing that people like you demand respect

Please stop.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 07:30, deloptes wrote:
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> 
>> You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph
>> full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and
>> shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to
>> have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of
>> argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening.
> 
> I do not know you and I do not insult you, so why you are doing this?
> Oh, let me tell you I do not care at all. I learned to distance my self from
> offends such as yours. To be honest I am fed up of guys like you.
> And let me tell you something as well - I did not want to have any kind of
> argumentative discussion here. I just regret the ability to have one in
> general. And you are best proof of it. And this is why people like Norbert
> Preining are leaving.
> 
> If you want to have one debate, you can ask for it, but hey - you are one of
> those smart, morally superior *** *, who know they are better. So you
> exactly prove what I was saying.
> I refuse to come down to that level of debate. If you want to have one, do
> it properly - not here and not now. I enjoy my weekend, I hope you do too.
> 
> I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously
> you do not. I hope you can understand and I also forgive you, if you can
> not because you are younger (although with 30 you could perform better). 
Just a note, he's not 30
So stop making a fool of yourself
For someone who don't wanna talk you seem like a really loud mouth
around here.
> 
> Once you wake up in a full totalitarian system you yourself created, you
> will probably and hopefully understand what I was saying, but first it will
> be too late and second at the moment any discussion with you is pointless. 
> 
> It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready
> to give such. I am sorry for you.
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

> You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph
> full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and
> shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to
> have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of
> argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening.

I do not know you and I do not insult you, so why you are doing this?
Oh, let me tell you I do not care at all. I learned to distance my self from
offends such as yours. To be honest I am fed up of guys like you.
And let me tell you something as well - I did not want to have any kind of
argumentative discussion here. I just regret the ability to have one in
general. And you are best proof of it. And this is why people like Norbert
Preining are leaving.

If you want to have one debate, you can ask for it, but hey - you are one of
those smart, morally superior *** *, who know they are better. So you
exactly prove what I was saying.
I refuse to come down to that level of debate. If you want to have one, do
it properly - not here and not now. I enjoy my weekend, I hope you do too.

I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously
you do not. I hope you can understand and I also forgive you, if you can
not because you are younger (although with 30 you could perform better). 

Once you wake up in a full totalitarian system you yourself created, you
will probably and hopefully understand what I was saying, but first it will
be too late and second at the moment any discussion with you is pointless. 

It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready
to give such. I am sorry for you.


-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: chromium , google-chrome : ingérables avec Bullseye

[Haricophile]

Le Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:57:15 +0100,
"ajh-valmer"  a écrit :

> En plus, en bas à droite du navigateur, il m'affiche des pubs
> changeantes, impossible de les retirer malgré un clic sur le petite
> croix, ça revient sans cesse.

Ça par contre ça me parait plus que curieux. Je ne sais pas quoi et
comment, mais il doit y avoir un malware commercial dans le profile,
une page, ou il y a une config vérolée. En pus dès que j'installe un
chromium / chrome quelque part, avant de faire quoique ce soit,
j'installe ublock-origin.

Je vois dans mon moteur de recherche qu'on trouve aussi chromium en
appimage si on ne veut pas utiliser snap.

Je n'aime pas trop snap et appimage, mais il faut reconnaître que ça
peut être utile à condition de l'utiliser avec modération. J'utilise
par exemple Musescore en appimage, contraint et forcé par des
différences significative entre la version des paquets Linux et celle
utilisée par Musescore. 

Curieusement, ce genre de problème apparaît surtout sur les logiciels
«grand public» qui ont Windows en cible principale. Ils n'ont pas de
notion de ce qu'est un vrai gestionnaire de logiciel ou un cycle de
vie. Je n'inclue pas la grosse bouse-bloatware de Windows dans les dans
cette catégorie, tout ce qu'il sait faire c'est ajouter des couches au
mille-feuille et a chaque grosse mise-à-jour on prie St Antoine pour
que ça passe sur sa machine, de préférence sans mettre 10h a installer.
Je suis d'ailleurs assez consterné par les Linuxiens qui estiment que
copier les bloatwares clicodromes de Windows/Ios/Android c'est «le
progrès» parce que «c'est portable». La facilité est séduisante, mais
moi je laisse ça très volontier à Windows Android etc, il y a des
effets de bords...

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

deloptes  wrote on 23/01/2022 at 11:38:21+0100:

> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
>> Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and
>> understanding about how things work in Debian.
>> 
>> This was enlightening.
>
> you are welcome (I am not stupid, just answering in the same manner)
>
> I do not care what you do in Debian. I use and support the community as long
> as it serves my needs.

You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph
full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and
shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to
have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of
argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening.

This is rich.

> Also I am ready to ignore all replies as I have found out it is not possible
> to have constructive debate with  well lets keep it for myself.

You should have probably started with not posting at all, as your mails
don't make you looking like trying to have any sort of constructive
debate.

> I simply know how this works - once you have the communists inside, it all
> falls apart. Knowing Debian, it will take perhaps another 10y.

I guess this is another attempt at having a constructive debate?

> So instead of attacking me, just think over.

I did, and I stand my point: there's nothing to save in your last
attempts to make a statement.

-- 
PEB

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[Andy Smith]

Hi Mick,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> > > I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> > > software
> > > got removed from the repository because of variable names.
> > 
> > If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
> > removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.
> > 
> > This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
> > software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
> > 
> > https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784
> 
> That'll be it.

Thanks for confirming. So would you like to retract your statement
that it was removed "because of variable names"?

And hopefully now that's cleared up you will feel better about
Debian's direction of travel.

Cheers,
Andy

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 06:52, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
>>> software
>>> got removed from the repository because of variable names.
>>
>> If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
>> removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.
>>
>> This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
>> software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
>>
>>
>> https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784
>>
>>
>> If you are referring to some other package, I'm not recalling it.
>> Can you remind me which one it was please?
> 
> That'll be it.
So it was nothing then...
Sorry but this only spark fire. And if you are concerned as you say then
you ain't helping much here.
> 
> mick
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[mick crane]

On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that 
software

got removed from the repository because of variable names.


If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.

This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):


https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784

If you are referring to some other package, I'm not recalling it.
Can you remind me which one it was please?


That'll be it.

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

"Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that software
> got removed from the repository because of variable names.

If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
removed and incorrect statements like that are not helpful.

This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):


https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784

If you are referring to some other package, I'm not recalling it.
Can you remind me which one it was please?

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-01-23 06:17, mick crane wrote:
>>
>> All together it is sad that conflicts are not solved for one or another
>> reason.
> 
> This is probably an accurate observation.
> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> software got removed from the repository because of variable names.
> 
> mick

You are right with this one.
Whatever reason, that's a huge problem with most opensource project.
That is having social problem between people put halt to good software
project.

When you run a business, you have some power to push people into working
together but when it's a game of "take what I do or I'll go away" you
are either in the position of accepting contribution of someone (and
accepting his personality) or you have to push away some much needed
contribution (because you believe there would be a conflict that would
cause problem to your project, either active conflict or one that could
arise).

People take it a bit like a religious belief and it's quite hard to make
them accept choice they don't like, even if it's a majority choice.

You see this with the desktop war (KDE vs Gnome), the service manager
(SystemD vs Init), packaging system (RPM vs DPK vs TGZ vs ...).

If all this split energy was put into one project we'd had the best OS
distribution ever, with no security problem, the most up to date package
and much more. Because by splitting every time something goes bad,
there's redundant job done on many different project that could be done
only once.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[mick crane]

On 2022-01-23 08:19, deloptes wrote:

Marco Möller wrote:

I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot 
to
not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat 
given

off obstructively.
As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation.
Some of these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly
also questioning if community processes are always taking place
sufficiently transparent. Currently I find only a public statement 
from

one party. This could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement
from somebody in the Debian project with insights into the issue could
prevent Debian from bad repute by declassifying which are the 
positions

of the present disagreement.


I am not aware of the current problem, but my personal observation is 
that

there are more often such conflicts and I expect the number to rise in
future.
According my observation the problem is in lack of education in the 
fields

of logic and rhetoric. The new generation (called milenials or gen Z or
whatever) mostly brainwashed to the political left, but I do not 
exclude

also the once to the right, are not able to have a meaningful debate.
So what happens - again this is my personal opinion - they are not able 
to
have a meaningful conversation over an issue and can not solve 
conflicts.
Thus the only way is to break the communication. Sadly this is 
observable

also in politics and I hope we do not end up in nuclear war.

The first such experience I had was exactly the KDE project, when it
released version 4. It was not possible to convince the developers that 
we

need a working desktop and not just shiny one. So I had to abandon KDE.
Since then I had this experience in many different situations 
especially
with younger people. It is very sad! Again I see this problem mainly in 
the

education, but it could have also relation to the family a person was
raised in.

All together it is sad that conflicts are not solved for one or another
reason.


This is probably an accurate observation.
I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that 
software got removed from the repository because of variable names.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

> I feel like someone is very frustrated and can't seem to self moderate
> himself.
> 
> This is probably the part of opensource community that is the most time
> consuming and more destructive for all projects, what make serious
> people look at us like if we are just a bunch of kids.
> 
> What's the goal of sending a email when you repeat twice, same to you.
> Talk about facts but never give any (fact = substance, not opinions).
> 
> Yes, time have changed since the last 15 years and it has also changed
> since the time we used 2400 baud modem, used terminal connected to S/390
> and the reign of the PDP-11. Have we adapted our software, I think so.
> Why can't we adapt as human ? Some do, other seem to be into doing
> retro-computing with their own brain.

You are not worth spending even this one minute to discuss anything - thats
the point!

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: smartd

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 09:16:53PM -0800, pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> From: Andy Smith 
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:07:23 +
> > You are better off finding the damaged sectors and causing the drive
> > to remap them by writing new content in there. Then you don't have
> > to keep track yourself of which sections of the disk are unusable.
> 
> I don't understand how bad sectors are "remapped".  The process is 
> internal to the drive?

Yes. When a drive sector goes bad, the drive cannot read from it, so
you get an error in Linux when a read is attempted.

But if you are *writing* to it, if a modern drive can't do the write
it just writes the data to a spare sector and remaps that sector
location to the location of the formerly spare one.

The operating system is unaware that this has happened, though it is
recorded in SMART attributes (the reallocated sector count).

So overwriting bad sectors will make the problem go away until there
are no more spare sectors.

> Depends on Linux software?

No, anything that can write to the drive will work, which is why I
suggested dd over the whole drive if you aren't currently using it.

hdparm makes it easy to write a specific sector but it's also
possible with dd and its "skip" and "count" arguments. If you are
careful.

> What about connecting the drive to another system and applying
> fsck to each part?

What would be the goal? A SMART long self-test should tell you which
bits are unreadable.

> > Consumer HDDs usually have a few hundred spare sectors for
> > remapping.
> 
> What happens when all spare sectors are allocated?

The next time a sector goes bad it would not be fixable by writing
to it and there would be a part of the drive that is permanently
unusable. In the old days the "badblocks" tool would be used to find
these areas and avoid their use. These days we let drives remap bad
areas and replace either pro-actively or when they can't remap any
more.

Drives often encounter severe problems before they get as far as
using all their spare sectors. They send so many errors up to Linux
that Linux disconnects the whole device.

> Any indication to prevent silent loss of data?

When a sector goes bad, whatever data that was in there is now lost.
Since you cannot prevent drives from failing, appropriate
countermeasures include:

- Introducing redundancy with RAID or filesystems that have it built
  in, like btrfs or zfs

- Having good backups

Both are generally considered a good idea. With redundancy no data
would be lost and a tedious recovery process involving your backups
is turned into a more mundane process of replacing a failed drive.

You also need to monitor both of those to make sure they are
functioning properly.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote:
> Marco Möller wrote:
> 
>> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to
>> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given
>> off obstructively.
>> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
>> discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation.
>> Some of these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly
>> also questioning if community processes are always taking place
>> sufficiently transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from
>> one party. This could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement
>> from somebody in the Debian project with insights into the issue could
>> prevent Debian from bad repute by declassifying which are the positions
>> of the present disagreement.
> 
> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
> future. Not because I care that much about the  CoC, but because the
> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
> expected quality.

This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure.
If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith.

The basis of community based software is pretty simple :
If you ain't happy you have two possibility
1. Use something else
2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed

That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL.

No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your
mind.

Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ?

Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't
you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software
meet your need.

I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will
be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and
all the problems you expect other to do for you.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-23 05:31, deloptes wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
>> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
>> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark
>> Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM).
>>
> 
> No conspiracy - it is a fact.
> 
>> Stick to the things as they are. Accept that there are other people, who
>> think differently and refrain from characterising everyone you disagree
>> with as .
>>
> 
> Same applies in the opposite direction
> 
>> The people who disagree with you are not a cabal. They just... disagree
>> with you. Convince them otherwise, using logic.
>>
> 
> Same applies in the opposite direction
> 
>> This is the price we all have to pay to take part in a social endeavour,
>> as a free software distribution is.
> 
> Interestingly there was no such price 15y ago. How comes?
> 

What did this email add to any useful debate ?...
Did we learn something new ? No
Did we get some useful suggestion ? No

I feel like someone is very frustrated and can't seem to self moderate
himself.

This is probably the part of opensource community that is the most time
consuming and more destructive for all projects, what make serious
people look at us like if we are just a bunch of kids.

What's the goal of sending a email when you repeat twice, same to you.
Talk about facts but never give any (fact = substance, not opinions).

Yes, time have changed since the last 15 years and it has also changed
since the time we used 2400 baud modem, used terminal connected to S/390
and the reign of the PDP-11. Have we adapted our software, I think so.
Why can't we adapt as human ? Some do, other seem to be into doing
retro-computing with their own brain.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature