Re: how to test and compare performance of bullseye for i386 and amd64

[a]

Thank David and Polyna-Maude!

it's surprising that "The x64 binary are also somewhat larger than the 
i386 binaries"


i compare some packages of bullseye for both arch, they happen to be 
contrary


though difference is small and IMO has little impact on performance

firefox-esr for i386: size= 58465416

firefox-esr for amd64: size= 55451188

gcc-10 for i386: size= 18097884

gcc-10 for amd64: size=  16990272

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Le 25 janvier 2022 01:07:14 GMT+01:00, Norbert Preining  
a écrit :
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> moral contract.
>
>Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years.
>Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff.
>
>That is krass.
>
>Norbert
>
>--
>PREINING Norbert  https://www.preining.info
>Fujitsu Research +IFMGA Guide +TU Wien+TeX Live
>GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
>

I'll leave that ranting and these barely masked attempts to paint yourself as a 
victim to you. 
--
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
From my phone

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 04:50, David Wright  wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022 at 04:22:39 (+), Gareth Evans wrote:
>> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 04:10, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>>  wrote:
>> > On 2022-01-24 23:03, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> >> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> >> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> >> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
>> >> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd[1]: Finished Create Volatile Files and 
>> >> Directories.
>> >> 
>> >> Googling "Detected unsafe path transition during canonicalization" led me 
>> >> to 
>> >> 
>> >> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=260924
>> >> 
>> >> where a user sees this error because / is owned by the user rather than 
>> >> root.
>> >> 
>> >> Lo and behold
>> >> 
>> >> $ stat /
>> >> 
>> >> shows this is what has somehow happened.
>> >> 
>> >> $ sudo chown root:root /
>> >> 
>> >> solves the disappearing /var/run/utmp problem (and fixes who/users) 
>> >> 
>> >> There is nothing in bash history to suggest I did this - can/should it 
>> >> happen any other way?
>> 
>> > No one other than you know the whole story behind what happened with
>> > your computer.
>> >
>> > Is it a new clean install
>> > How did you partition the hard drive
>> > etc..
>> 
>> The last clean installation was of Buster and it's since been upgraded to 
>> Bullseye.
>> 
>> An unfinished and accidentally-executed 
>> 
>> sudo chown /[some/file] 
>> 
>> doesn't seem impossible, but the lack of any such thing in bash history 
>> seems curious.  Perhaps a leading space crept in too, which would exclude 
>> the command from the history.
>> 
>> I was just wondering about other ways that could happen, if any.
>
> A frequent way, sometimes narrated in Operator Horror Stories from
> years ago, was untarring an archive. Gnu tar does its best to protect
> you, but can be overridden.
>

> But my Q1 is always "What were the ownerships and permissions before
> you reverted them?" That's often the best clue. 

As of now:

$ ls -ld /
drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 33 Jan 21 14:48 /

The only difference was my username in the owner position.

There is nothing in my [timestamped] bash history at 14:48 on 21 Jan.  Just 
before that time I had used engrampa from the command line. Use of other 
scripts around the time suggests the archive concerned may have been a file in 
/var/www/html - I do sometimes have to change permissions and ownership there, 
so perhaps (cough mumble mumble).

Thanks all.
G






> Eg, from just yesterday:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg00874.html
> caused by restoring backups from amanda.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[David Wright]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022 at 04:22:39 (+), Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 04:10, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>  wrote:
> > On 2022-01-24 23:03, Gareth Evans wrote:
> >> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> >> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> >> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
> >> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd[1]: Finished Create Volatile Files and 
> >> Directories.
> >> 
> >> Googling "Detected unsafe path transition during canonicalization" led me 
> >> to 
> >> 
> >> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=260924
> >> 
> >> where a user sees this error because / is owned by the user rather than 
> >> root.
> >> 
> >> Lo and behold
> >> 
> >> $ stat /
> >> 
> >> shows this is what has somehow happened.
> >> 
> >> $ sudo chown root:root /
> >> 
> >> solves the disappearing /var/run/utmp problem (and fixes who/users) 
> >> 
> >> There is nothing in bash history to suggest I did this - can/should it 
> >> happen any other way?
> 
> > No one other than you know the whole story behind what happened with
> > your computer.
> >
> > Is it a new clean install
> > How did you partition the hard drive
> > etc..
> 
> The last clean installation was of Buster and it's since been upgraded to 
> Bullseye.
> 
> An unfinished and accidentally-executed 
> 
> sudo chown /[some/file] 
> 
> doesn't seem impossible, but the lack of any such thing in bash history seems 
> curious.  Perhaps a leading space crept in too, which would exclude the 
> command from the history.
> 
> I was just wondering about other ways that could happen, if any.

A frequent way, sometimes narrated in Operator Horror Stories from
years ago, was untarring an archive. Gnu tar does its best to protect
you, but can be overridden.

But my Q1 is always "What were the ownerships and permissions before
you reverted them?" That's often the best clue. Eg, from just yesterday:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg00874.html
caused by restoring backups from amanda.

Cheers,
David.

Re: modprobe tun required after reboot for virt-manager

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:11, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> Further to my disappearing /var/run/utmp query, I also newly can't 
> start VMs with virt-manager without first doing
>
> $ sudo modprobe tun
>
> This has also changed recently, apparently without intervention on my part.
>
> Presumably it has stopped being autoloaded somewhere.
>
> Should tun be in 
>
> /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf
>
> or is there an on-demand approach which seems to have been corrupted?
>
> Thanks,
> Gareth

Fixed.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg01003.html

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 04:10, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
 wrote:
> On 2022-01-24 23:03, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:28, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 03:06:00AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
 On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:02, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>> A google search led me to 
>> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
>> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
>> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
>>
>
>> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
>>
>> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>>

>> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?
>
> Thanks, yes:
>
> $ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -

 And fwiw (from a comment in the link you provided)

 $ sudo journalctl -b _COMM=systemd-tmpfiles
 -- Journal begins at Sat 2021-08-21 14:27:06 BST, ends at Tue 2022-01-25 
 03:04:>
 -- No entries --
>>>
>>> Next thing to check seems to be:
>>>
>>> systemctl status systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
>> 
>> Aha...
>> 
>> systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service - Create Volatile Files and Directories
>>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service; 
>> static)
>>  Active: active (exited) since Tue 2022-01-25 01:46:52 GMT; 1h 53min ago
>>Docs: man:tmpfiles.d(5)
>>  man:systemd-tmpfiles(8)
>> Process: 1340 ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot 
>> --exclude-prefix=/dev (code=exited, status=73)
>>Main PID: 1340 (code=exited, status=73)
>> CPU: 20ms
>> 
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
>> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
>> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
>> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd[1]: Finished Create Volatile Files and 
>> Directories.
>> 
>> Googling "Detected unsafe path transition during canonicalization" led me to 
>> 
>> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=260924
>> 
>> where a user sees this error because / is owned by the user rather than root.
>> 
>> Lo and behold
>> 
>> $ stat /
>> 
>> shows this is what has somehow happened.
>> 
>> $ sudo chown root:root /
>> 
>> solves the disappearing /var/run/utmp problem (and fixes who/users) 
>> 
>> There is nothing in bash history to suggest I did this - can/should it 
>> happen any other way?

> No one other than you know the whole story behind what happened with
> your computer.
>
> Is it a new clean install
> How did you partition the hard drive
> etc..

Hi,

The last clean installation was of Buster and it's since been upgraded to 
Bullseye.

An unfinished and accidentally-executed 

sudo chown /[some/file] 

doesn't seem impossible, but the lack of any such thing in bash history seems 
curious.  Perhaps a leading space crept in too, which would exclude the command 
from the history.

I was just wondering about other ways that could happen, if any.

Best wishes,
Gareth



>> 
>> Thanks very much for your help Greg.
>> 
>> Gareth
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>> Make sure it hasn't been disabled or masked, I suppose.  The unit file
>>> contains this command:
>>>
>>> ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot --exclude-prefix=/dev
>>>
>>> So, I guess make sure yours has that too.  But hopefully you'll discover
>>> that it's been disabled or something silly like that, and then you can
>>> just enable it.
>> 
>
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource 

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-24 23:03, Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:28, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 03:06:00AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>>> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:02, Gareth Evans  wrote:
 On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> A google search led me to 
> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
>

> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
>
> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>
>>>
> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?

 Thanks, yes:

 $ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
 F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>>>
>>> And fwiw (from a comment in the link you provided)
>>>
>>> $ sudo journalctl -b _COMM=systemd-tmpfiles
>>> -- Journal begins at Sat 2021-08-21 14:27:06 BST, ends at Tue 2022-01-25 
>>> 03:04:>
>>> -- No entries --
>>
>> Next thing to check seems to be:
>>
>> systemctl status systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
> 
> Aha...
> 
> systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service - Create Volatile Files and Directories
>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service; 
> static)
>  Active: active (exited) since Tue 2022-01-25 01:46:52 GMT; 1h 53min ago
>Docs: man:tmpfiles.d(5)
>  man:systemd-tmpfiles(8)
> Process: 1340 ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot 
> --exclude-prefix=/dev (code=exited, status=73)
>Main PID: 1340 (code=exited, status=73)
> CPU: 20ms
> 
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path 
> transition / → /var during canonicalization of 
> /var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
> Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd[1]: Finished Create Volatile Files and 
> Directories.
> 
> Googling "Detected unsafe path transition during canonicalization" led me to 
> 
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=260924
> 
> where a user sees this error because / is owned by the user rather than root.
> 
> Lo and behold
> 
> $ stat /
> 
> shows this is what has somehow happened.
> 
> $ sudo chown root:root /
> 
> solves the disappearing /var/run/utmp problem (and fixes who/users) 
> 
> There is nothing in bash history to suggest I did this - can/should it happen 
> any other way?
No one other than you know the whole story behind what happened with
your computer.

Is it a new clean install
How did you partition the hard drive
etc..
> 
> Thanks very much for your help Greg.
> 
> Gareth
> 
> 
>>
>> Make sure it hasn't been disabled or masked, I suppose.  The unit file
>> contains this command:
>>
>> ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot --exclude-prefix=/dev
>>
>> So, I guess make sure yours has that too.  But hopefully you'll discover
>> that it's been disabled or something silly like that, and then you can
>> just enable it.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:28, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 03:06:00AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:02, Gareth Evans  wrote:
>> > On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>> >> A google search led me to 
>> >> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
>> >> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
>> >> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
>> >>
>> >
>> >> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
>> >>
>> >> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>> >>
>> 
>> >> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?
>> >
>> > Thanks, yes:
>> >
>> > $ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
>> > F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>> 
>> And fwiw (from a comment in the link you provided)
>> 
>> $ sudo journalctl -b _COMM=systemd-tmpfiles
>> -- Journal begins at Sat 2021-08-21 14:27:06 BST, ends at Tue 2022-01-25 
>> 03:04:>
>> -- No entries --
>
> Next thing to check seems to be:
>
> systemctl status systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service

Aha...

systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service - Create Volatile Files and Directories
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service; static)
 Active: active (exited) since Tue 2022-01-25 01:46:52 GMT; 1h 53min ago
   Docs: man:tmpfiles.d(5)
 man:systemd-tmpfiles(8)
Process: 1340 ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot 
--exclude-prefix=/dev (code=exited, status=73)
   Main PID: 1340 (code=exited, status=73)
CPU: 20ms

Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of /var/log/journal.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of 
/var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of 
/var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of 
/var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /run during canonicalization of /run/log/journal.
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of 
/var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd-tmpfiles[1340]: Detected unsafe path transition 
/ → /var during canonicalization of 
/var/log/journal/7f684579096949909ba2bfac31e8423e/sy>
Jan 25 01:46:52 qwerty systemd[1]: Finished Create Volatile Files and 
Directories.

Googling "Detected unsafe path transition during canonicalization" led me to 

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=260924

where a user sees this error because / is owned by the user rather than root.

Lo and behold

$ stat /

shows this is what has somehow happened.

$ sudo chown root:root /

solves the disappearing /var/run/utmp problem (and fixes who/users) 

There is nothing in bash history to suggest I did this - can/should it happen 
any other way?

Thanks very much for your help Greg.

Gareth


>
> Make sure it hasn't been disabled or masked, I suppose.  The unit file
> contains this command:
>
> ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot --exclude-prefix=/dev
>
> So, I guess make sure yours has that too.  But hopefully you'll discover
> that it's been disabled or something silly like that, and then you can
> just enable it.

Re: how to test and compare performance of bullseye for i386 and amd64

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-24 22:02, David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 24 Jan 2022 at 20:30:20 (-0500), a wrote:
>> i've installed debian 11 for both arch on same PC, amd64 seems faster
>>
>> is there some tool to demonstrate performance of PC?
>>
Yes there is standardized benchmark available. LinPack for example,
GeekBench is another one.

https://www.geekbench.com/download/


>> they say it's not possible to say which is faster without defining
>> computing task
True, AMD64 code incur some overhead.
So it will be less effective if you don't have any reason to take
advantages of the x64 architectures, for example by having less than 4
GB of RAM.

The x64 binary are also somewhat larger than the i386 binaries, they
also need more memory to run because often they will allocate 64 bit for
data "by default" on this platform.

If you are on short supply of memory, again no advantage of x64.

But this also depend on many other factors.

Because what make a difference between our PCs and high performance node
is hardware bottleneck.

So for general computing, you'll rarely exploit fully your CPU. You'll
often wait for data coming from the central memory, wait for data to be
sent out on the peripheral bus or extensions bus.

You ask a question that needs a context to be answered.

>>
>> is performance difference significant if computing task is web
>> browsing (www.debian.org)
No ! Shouldn't be, unless you have over 4 GB of RAM and would be running
many many windows/tabs/intensive web applications.

>>
>> debian-11.2.0-i386-netinst.iso is 470M while
>> debian-11.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso is 378M
>> 
>>
>> no wonder amd64 is more efficient
> 
> What exactly are you comparing here? Generally speaking, the amd64
> packages are /larger/ than the i386 ones: hardly surprising.
> 
> But the i386 ISOs have /two/ versions of many packages, the PAE
> ones and the non-PAE ones.
> 
Based solely on the size on a installation CD making affirmation
regarding benchmark is really doing a shortcut to deliver conclusion.

The question ask require more information to get a real answer.

I seriously doubt that you'll really feel difference in real life type
workload. Even using benchmark tools does not relate to real life
workload, unless you are doing physics simulation, financial analysis
regression or other math workload. In such case, you wouldn't ask such
question and already hold the answer.

> Cheers,
> David.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 03:06:00AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:02, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> > On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >> A google search led me to 
> >> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
> >> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
> >> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
> >>
> >
> >> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
> >>
> >> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
> >>
> 
> >> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?
> >
> > Thanks, yes:
> >
> > $ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
> > F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
> 
> And fwiw (from a comment in the link you provided)
> 
> $ sudo journalctl -b _COMM=systemd-tmpfiles
> -- Journal begins at Sat 2021-08-21 14:27:06 BST, ends at Tue 2022-01-25 
> 03:04:>
> -- No entries --

Next thing to check seems to be:

systemctl status systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service

Make sure it hasn't been disabled or masked, I suppose.  The unit file
contains this command:

ExecStart=systemd-tmpfiles --create --remove --boot --exclude-prefix=/dev

So, I guess make sure yours has that too.  But hopefully you'll discover
that it's been disabled or something silly like that, and then you can
just enable it.

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[The Wanderer]

On 2022-01-24 at 16:35, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

> max   wrote on 24/01/2022 at 06:15:12+0100:
> 
>> January 23, 2022 11:21:31 AM CET "Pierre-Elliott Bécue"
>>  wrote:

>>> Now that I read the press release paragraph and the reference to 
>>> Pocock's "excommunication", I start wondering if Max, who never 
>>> wrote on any Debian List before last month is yet another
>>> trollesque incarnation of the forementioned Pocock.
>> 
>> M-W defines it as "exclusion from fellowship in a group or
>> community", so I think that word was perfect. It seems odd of you
>> to question my command of English, all things considered.
> 
> The cambridge dictionary defines it as "the act of refusing to to
> allow someone to be involved in the Church". I don't know what M-W
> stands for,

Merriam-Webster.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 03:02, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 01:31:35AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>>> /var/run$ sudo touch utmp
>>> /var/run$ sudo chown root:utmp utmp
>>> /var/run$ sudo chmod 664 utmp
>>> /var/run$ ls -l utmp
>>> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 0 Jan 25 00:08 utmp
>>> /var/run$ who
>>> /var/run$
>>> [logout, login]
>>> /var/run$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
>>> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 384 Jan 25 00:17 /var/run/utmp
>>> $ who
>>> user tty7 2022-01-25 00:17 (:0)
>>> $ sudo reboot
>>> ...
>>> $ ls -l /var/run/utmp
>>> ls: cannot access '/var/run/utmp': No such file or directory
>>
>> A google search led me to 
>> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
>> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
>> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
>>
>
>> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
>>
>> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>>

>> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?
>
> Thanks, yes:
>
> $ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -

And fwiw (from a comment in the link you provided)

$ sudo journalctl -b _COMM=systemd-tmpfiles
-- Journal begins at Sat 2021-08-21 14:27:06 BST, ends at Tue 2022-01-25 03:04:>
-- No entries --

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 02:54, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 01:31:35AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> /var/run$ sudo touch utmp
>> /var/run$ sudo chown root:utmp utmp
>> /var/run$ sudo chmod 664 utmp
>> /var/run$ ls -l utmp
>> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 0 Jan 25 00:08 utmp
>> /var/run$ who
>> /var/run$
>> [logout, login]
>> /var/run$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
>> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 384 Jan 25 00:17 /var/run/utmp
>> $ who
>> user tty7 2022-01-25 00:17 (:0)
>> $ sudo reboot
>> ...
>> $ ls -l /var/run/utmp
>> ls: cannot access '/var/run/utmp': No such file or directory
>
> A google search led me to 
> which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
> "tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
> file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .
>

> On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:
>
> F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -
>
> Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?

Thanks, yes:

$ sudo cat /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf | grep utmp
F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -

Re: how to test and compare performance of bullseye for i386 and amd64

[David Wright]

On Mon 24 Jan 2022 at 20:30:20 (-0500), a wrote:
> i've installed debian 11 for both arch on same PC, amd64 seems faster
> 
> is there some tool to demonstrate performance of PC?
> 
> they say it's not possible to say which is faster without defining
> computing task
> 
> is performance difference significant if computing task is web
> browsing (www.debian.org)
> 
> debian-11.2.0-i386-netinst.iso is 470M while
> debian-11.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso is 378M
> 
> 
> no wonder amd64 is more efficient

What exactly are you comparing here? Generally speaking, the amd64
packages are /larger/ than the i386 ones: hardly surprising.

But the i386 ISOs have /two/ versions of many packages, the PAE
ones and the non-PAE ones.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 01:31:35AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> /var/run$ sudo touch utmp
> /var/run$ sudo chown root:utmp utmp
> /var/run$ sudo chmod 664 utmp
> /var/run$ ls -l utmp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 0 Jan 25 00:08 utmp
> /var/run$ who
> /var/run$
> [logout, login]
> /var/run$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 384 Jan 25 00:17 /var/run/utmp
> $ who
> user tty7 2022-01-25 00:17 (:0)
> $ sudo reboot
> ...
> $ ls -l /var/run/utmp
> ls: cannot access '/var/run/utmp': No such file or directory

A google search led me to 
which says that the /run/utmp file is supposed to be created by
"tmpfiles", specifically by the instructions in the configuration
file /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf .

On my system, /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf contains this line:

F! /run/utmp 0664 root utmp -

Does your system have this file, and if so, does it contain that line?

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[David Wright]

On Mon 24 Jan 2022 at 17:26:13 (-0800), David Christensen wrote:
> On 1/24/22 2:55 AM, deloptes wrote:
> > I can boot from the CD/DVD into UEFI, but it seems I can not do the same
> > from the USB.
> > The USB which is UEFI can boot the newer notebook (has secure mode)
> 
> > The question is if it is not limited by the board. If I disable Legacy USB I
> > can not use the keyboard/mouse and I have to reset the bios.
> > 
> > But even in Legacy mode I see in boot options UEFI USB disk, however it does
> > not boot, but same stick boots on the more recent notebook.
> > 
> > Does someone knows more about it. What and where to check? I would not spend
> > time if it is the boards BIOS. I'll just keep a copy of the DVD/CD as
> > rescue
> 
> I have found that testing is the only way to determine if a given FOSS
> image/ device/ media boots, installs, or works in a given computer;
> and to what degree.

Not just the image and device, but which port it's plugged into can
also make a difference whether it will boot. Very frustrating.

Cheers,
David.

modprobe tun required after reboot for virt-manager

[Gareth Evans]

Further to my disappearing /var/run/utmp query, I also newly can't start VMs 
with virt-manager without first doing

$ sudo modprobe tun

This has also changed recently, apparently without intervention on my part.

Presumably it has stopped being autoloaded somewhere.

Should tun be in 

/etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf

or is there an on-demand approach which seems to have been corrupted?

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Tue 25 Jan 2022, at 01:31, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> On Mon 24 Jan 2022, at 12:45, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:51:05AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>>> I've just noticed that: 
>>> 
>>> $ who
>>> 
>>> and
>>> 
>>> $ users
>>> 
>>> both return nothing, with or without sudo.
>>
>>> Can anyone replicate this or suggest what may have happened?  I'm fairly 
>>> sure I've used who since upgrading from Buster.
>>
>> Definitely can't replicate.  "who" gives me 28 lines of output for all
>> of my terminals.
>>
>> As far as suggesting a cause -- we'd need more info.  
>
>> Which init system
>> are you using?  
>
> systemd.  But for root on ZFS per 
>
> https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html
>  
> (adjusted for Bullseye) 
>
> it's standard Debian-mate amd64
>
>> How are you logging in?  
>
> Logging into Mate with lightdm
>
>> Are you using any terminal
>> emulators, and if so, which one(s)?
>
> mate-terminal
>
>>
>> Is the /var file system full?  (Or any mount underneath /var if you have
>> such.)
>
> $ sudo zfs list
> NAMEUSED  AVAIL REFER  MOUNTPOINT
> bpool   172M   660M   96K  /boot
> bpool/BOOT  170M   660M   96K  none
> bpool/BOOT/debian   170M   660M  170M  /boot
> rpool  67.6G  45.7G  192K  /
> rpool/ROOT 11.2G  45.7G  192K  none
> rpool/ROOT/debian  11.2G  45.7G 11.2G  /
> rpool/data  200K  45.7G  200K  /data
> rpool/home 15.0G  45.7G 9.27G  /home
> rpool/large3.06G  45.7G 3.06G  /large
> rpool/backup1  4.94G  45.7G 1.03G  /backup1
> rpool/backup2  15.7G  45.7G 3.94G  /backup2
> rpool/swap 8.50G  54.2G  108K  -
> rpool/var  9.06G  45.7G  412K  /var
> rpool/var/cache 192M  45.7G  192M  /var/cache
> rpool/var/lib  6.29G  45.7G  720K  /var/lib
> rpool/var/lib/docker   19.0M  45.7G 19.0M  /var/lib/docker
> rpool/var/lib/libvirt  5.94G  45.7G 5.94G  /var/lib/libvirt
> rpool/var/lib/mysql 335M  45.7G  246M  /var/lib/mysql
> rpool/var/log   363M  45.7G  363M  /var/log
> rpool/var/spool 103M  45.7G  103M  /var/spool
> rpool/var/tmp   250M  45.7G  250M  /var/tmp
> rpool/var/www  1.89G  45.7G 1.40G  /var/www
>
>
>> Have you done anything unique or unusual to your system that would cause
>> it not to log sessions in /var/run/utmp?
>
> Not afaik
>
>>
>>> $ sudo strace who
>>> 
>>> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
>>> directory)
>>> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
>>> file or directory)
>>> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
>>> directory)
>>> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
>>> file or directory)
>>> close(1)= 0
>>> close(2)= 0
>>> exit_group(0)   = ?
>>> +++ exited with 0 +++
>>
>> Your /var/run/utmp file is missing.  That's definitely going to cause
>> a problem here.
>>
>> Here's what mine looks like:
>>
>> unicorn:~$ df /var/run
>> Filesystem 1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
>> tmpfs1215580  1456   1214124   1% /run
>> unicorn:~$ ls -ld /var/run
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 11  2018 /var/run -> /run/
>> unicorn:~$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
>> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 12288 Jan 20 15:08 /var/run/utmp
>>
>> I don't know what happened to yours, but since /run is an in-memory
>> file system, all of the stuff inside it (including the utmp file) has
>> to be created at boot time, or at login time at the very latest.
>>
>
>> You could try creating the file with the correct user/group/perms and
>> see if that helps, but that probably won't survive the next reboot.
>
> /var/run$ sudo touch utmp
> /var/run$ sudo chown root:utmp utmp
> /var/run$ sudo chmod 664 utmp
> /var/run$ ls -l utmp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 0 Jan 25 00:08 utmp
> /var/run$ who
> /var/run$
> [logout, login]
> /var/run$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 384 Jan 25 00:17 /var/run/utmp
> $ who
> user tty7 2022-01-25 00:17 (:0)
> $ sudo reboot
> ...
> $ ls -l /var/run/utmp
> ls: cannot access '/var/run/utmp': No such file or directory
>
>>
>> You could also try rebooting and see if it gets created correctly.  If
>> it doesn't, then I guess you get to dive into the internals of your
>> init system to discover what's going wrong.
>>
>
> user@qwerty:~$ sudo service  systemd-update-utmp status
> ● systemd-update-utmp.service - Update UTMP about System Boot/Shutdown
>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-update-utmp.service; 
> static)
>  Active: active (exited) since Tue 2022-01-25 01:13:05 GMT; 1min 
> 49s ago
>Docs: man:systemd-update-utmp.service(8)
>  

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

On Mon 24 Jan 2022, at 12:45, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:51:05AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> I've just noticed that: 
>> 
>> $ who
>> 
>> and
>> 
>> $ users
>> 
>> both return nothing, with or without sudo.
>
>> Can anyone replicate this or suggest what may have happened?  I'm fairly 
>> sure I've used who since upgrading from Buster.
>
> Definitely can't replicate.  "who" gives me 28 lines of output for all
> of my terminals.
>
> As far as suggesting a cause -- we'd need more info.  

> Which init system
> are you using?  

systemd.  But for root on ZFS per 

https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Debian/Debian%20Buster%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html
 (adjusted for Bullseye) 

it's standard Debian-mate amd64

> How are you logging in?  

Logging into Mate with lightdm

> Are you using any terminal
> emulators, and if so, which one(s)?

mate-terminal

>
> Is the /var file system full?  (Or any mount underneath /var if you have
> such.)

$ sudo zfs list
NAMEUSED  AVAIL REFER  MOUNTPOINT
bpool   172M   660M   96K  /boot
bpool/BOOT  170M   660M   96K  none
bpool/BOOT/debian   170M   660M  170M  /boot
rpool  67.6G  45.7G  192K  /
rpool/ROOT 11.2G  45.7G  192K  none
rpool/ROOT/debian  11.2G  45.7G 11.2G  /
rpool/data  200K  45.7G  200K  /data
rpool/home 15.0G  45.7G 9.27G  /home
rpool/large3.06G  45.7G 3.06G  /large
rpool/backup1  4.94G  45.7G 1.03G  /backup1
rpool/backup2  15.7G  45.7G 3.94G  /backup2
rpool/swap 8.50G  54.2G  108K  -
rpool/var  9.06G  45.7G  412K  /var
rpool/var/cache 192M  45.7G  192M  /var/cache
rpool/var/lib  6.29G  45.7G  720K  /var/lib
rpool/var/lib/docker   19.0M  45.7G 19.0M  /var/lib/docker
rpool/var/lib/libvirt  5.94G  45.7G 5.94G  /var/lib/libvirt
rpool/var/lib/mysql 335M  45.7G  246M  /var/lib/mysql
rpool/var/log   363M  45.7G  363M  /var/log
rpool/var/spool 103M  45.7G  103M  /var/spool
rpool/var/tmp   250M  45.7G  250M  /var/tmp
rpool/var/www  1.89G  45.7G 1.40G  /var/www


> Have you done anything unique or unusual to your system that would cause
> it not to log sessions in /var/run/utmp?

Not afaik

>
>> $ sudo strace who
>> 
>> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
>> directory)
>> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
>> file or directory)
>> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
>> directory)
>> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
>> file or directory)
>> close(1)= 0
>> close(2)= 0
>> exit_group(0)   = ?
>> +++ exited with 0 +++
>
> Your /var/run/utmp file is missing.  That's definitely going to cause
> a problem here.
>
> Here's what mine looks like:
>
> unicorn:~$ df /var/run
> Filesystem 1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
> tmpfs1215580  1456   1214124   1% /run
> unicorn:~$ ls -ld /var/run
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 11  2018 /var/run -> /run/
> unicorn:~$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 12288 Jan 20 15:08 /var/run/utmp
>
> I don't know what happened to yours, but since /run is an in-memory
> file system, all of the stuff inside it (including the utmp file) has
> to be created at boot time, or at login time at the very latest.
>

> You could try creating the file with the correct user/group/perms and
> see if that helps, but that probably won't survive the next reboot.

/var/run$ sudo touch utmp
/var/run$ sudo chown root:utmp utmp
/var/run$ sudo chmod 664 utmp
/var/run$ ls -l utmp
-rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 0 Jan 25 00:08 utmp
/var/run$ who
/var/run$
[logout, login]
/var/run$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
-rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 384 Jan 25 00:17 /var/run/utmp
$ who
user tty7 2022-01-25 00:17 (:0)
$ sudo reboot
...
$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
ls: cannot access '/var/run/utmp': No such file or directory

>
> You could also try rebooting and see if it gets created correctly.  If
> it doesn't, then I guess you get to dive into the internals of your
> init system to discover what's going wrong.
>

user@qwerty:~$ sudo service  systemd-update-utmp status
● systemd-update-utmp.service - Update UTMP about System Boot/Shutdown
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/systemd-update-utmp.service; static)
 Active: active (exited) since Tue 2022-01-25 01:13:05 GMT; 1min 49s ago
   Docs: man:systemd-update-utmp.service(8)
 man:utmp(5)
Process: 1375 ExecStart=/lib/systemd/systemd-update-utmp reboot 
(code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
   Main PID: 1375 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
CPU: 9ms

Jan 25 01:13:05 qwerty systemd[1]: Starting Update UTMP about System 

how to test and compare performance of bullseye for i386 and amd64

[a]

i've installed debian 11 for both arch on same PC, amd64 seems faster

is there some tool to demonstrate performance of PC?

they say it's not possible to say which is faster without defining 
computing task


is performance difference significant if computing task is web browsing 
(www.debian.org)


debian-11.2.0-i386-netinst.iso is 470M while 
debian-11.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso is 378M



no wonder amd64 is more efficient

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[David Christensen]

On 1/24/22 2:55 AM, deloptes wrote:

Thank you for the response


YW.  :-)



Ah 2011 seems right to match the one that refer to here.
I can boot from the CD/DVD into UEFI, but it seems I can not do the same
from the USB.
The USB which is UEFI can boot the newer notebook (has secure mode)



The question is if it is not limited by the board. If I disable Legacy USB I
can not use the keyboard/mouse and I have to reset the bios.

But even in Legacy mode I see in boot options UEFI USB disk, however it does
not boot, but same stick boots on the more recent notebook.

Does someone knows more about it. What and where to check? I would not spend
time if it is the boards BIOS. I'll just keep a copy of the DVD/CD as
rescue

thanks



I have found that testing is the only way to determine if a given FOSS 
image/ device/ media boots, installs, or works in a given computer; and 
to what degree.



David

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Norbert Preining]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> moral contract.

Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years.
Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff.

That is krass.

Norbert

--
PREINING Norbert  https://www.preining.info
Fujitsu Research +IFMGA Guide +TU Wien+TeX Live
GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[Brian]

On Mon 24 Jan 2022 at 10:39:01 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 15:01:09 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 07:09:27PM +, Brian wrote:
> > > On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 13:53:01 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> > > > > Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > > > > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only
> > > > > >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> > > > > > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without 
> > > > > > needing
> > > > > > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well
> > > > > over a decade, probably closer to two.
> > > > 
> > > > And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as one 
> > > > of its clients.
> > > 
> > > What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> > > file as opposed to more modern techniques?
> > 
> > I'll treat this question as "static interface configuration and hosts
> > files".
> > 
> > The advantage is that it's conceptually simpler.
> > 
> > The disadvantages are numerous.
> > 
> >  * Adding a new host, or changing a host's IP address, requires
> >platform-specific knowledge on the host in question.  On a
> >heterogeneous network, that means you need knowledge of how to do
> >this on all the different platforms.  This may include devices like
> >printers, where it's quite difficult, maybe even impossible, to
> >configure an address without DHCP.
> > 
> >  * After a change is made, it has to be replicated across your entire
> >network.  Manually.
> > 
> >  * Any "visitor" machines that are temporarily added to your network will
> >need to be configured manually, and they will have zero knowledge of
> >the other hosts on the network.  Even if you know their names, there
> >won't be any DNS in which you can look up their addresses.
> > 
> > For anyone setting up a new home network, I'd recommend using DHCP.  It
> > will be a lot simpler in the long run, especially if you start adding
> > wireless devices (cell phones, tablets, TV streaming devices, etc.).
> > Your router probably already acts as a DHCP server, so all you need to
> > do is learn how to configure fixed addresses for specific computers (and
> > printers) that want to act like servers.  The other devices can just get
> > random addresses.  Guest machines can just be connected and start working
> > without issues.
> 
> Yes, I'd agree with all those arguments for DHCP, which is why I use
> it, hence its inclusion in my post at the top of this subthread, and
> why I can't understand Gene's aversion to it. But that's all about
> configuration, and the quoted comment at the top of this post is AIUI
> about /resolving/ hostnames through /etc/hosts.

Resolving hostnames on the local network is simple and reliable when
avahi-daemon and linnss-mdns are available.

  brian@desktop:~$ getent hosts envy4500.local
  192.168.7.235   envy4500.local

Continually and nanually maintain /etc/hosts? Not in 2022!

-- 
Brian.

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-24 14:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:
>>
>> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
>> future. Not because I care that much about the  CoC, but because the
>> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
>> expected quality.
> 
> Typically such (mostly off-topic) threads on d-u happen right before a 
> major Debian release, when everybody is waiting for the new stable and 
> there aren't many technical questions.
> 
> For this thread to happen so shortly *after* a major release, to me this 
> indicates there aren't many problems with bullseye \o/.
> 
You have a great news for all of us !
Debian's the best and most stable distribution I have know of.

I didn't have problem with Bullseye...
But didn't have problem with Buster either...
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


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Re: Need to manually start pulseaudio on reboot

[Jude DaShiell]

Have you run pulseaudio --cleanup-shm yet?


On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, nmanca wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> Since upgrading to bookworm I have to manually start pulseaudio at every login
> by executing:
>
> systemctl --user restart pulseaudio.service
>
> I use KDE plasma desktop.
> how can I diagnose/solve the problem?
>
> regards,
> Nicola
>
>

Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

max   wrote on 24/01/2022 at 05:26:45+0100:

> January 22, 2022 3:51:28 PM CET "Andrew M.A. Cater"  
> wrote:
>
>> Debian does fix security problems 
>
> The question is when: 0 days or 6 months after the CVE announcement? I
> mean, if you need 6 months, that's fine. Just don't claim that you do
> it in 0 days. That's dishonest. Does this make sense?

Nowhere in what you quoted form security.debian.org had this claim been
made. Stop wasting people's time.

-- 
PEB


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Re: Why is Debian not telling the truth about its security fixes?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

max   wrote on 24/01/2022 at 06:15:12+0100:

> January 23, 2022 11:21:31 AM CET "Pierre-Elliott Bécue"  
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if these bugs aren't also impacting chromium? I did not have
>> time to look into it so I may be wrong.
>
> But of course they were. Otherwise why would Debian fix them, after a
> long wait? Why would it list them on its security-tracker? Have you
> thought of that at all?

Have you read the sentence you're quoting at all?

>> Now that I read the press release paragraph and the reference to
>> Pocock's "excommunication", I start wondering if Max, who never
>> wrote on any Debian List before last month is yet another trollesque
>> incarnation of the forementioned Pocock.
>
> M-W defines it as "exclusion from fellowship in a group or community",
> so I think that word was perfect. It seems odd of you to question my
> command of English, all things considered.

The cambridge dictionary defines it as "the act of refusing to to allow
someone to be involved in the Church". I don't know what M-W stands for,
but for English definitions, I'll stick with Cambridge University Press'
work.

> And no, I'm not Pocock. He seems to be obsessed with certain alleged
> misdeeds of sexual nature. I never brought those up. Your accusation
> is baseless.

Wondering is not accusing.

> And if I were Pocock, what would be the master plan, according to you?
> Get more people to try to learn about who the heck he is? Debian has
> already done that. I didn't know about who this guy was until I read
> that press release and googled him. Talk about the Streisand
> effect. So, again, what was the plan, according to you?

How would I know? I'm not on anyone's head except mine.

-- 
PEB


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Need to manually start pulseaudio on reboot

[nmanca]

Dear list,

Since upgrading to bookworm I have to manually start pulseaudio at every login 
by executing:


systemctl --user restart pulseaudio.service

I use KDE plasma desktop.
how can I diagnose/solve the problem?

regards,
Nicola

Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

local10  wrote on 24/01/2022 at 00:32:10+0100:

> Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:
>
>> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
>> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
>> to overturn DAM's decision.
>>
>> In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
>> between Norbert and any other person to disclose these before the GR
>> starts and is voted on.
>>
>> As I already said, but you apparently decided to not read, Ian was not
>> part of the decision making at any part, and, apart from the others who
>> replied, two DAM members told him it wasn't fine.
>>
>
> Sounds sketchy but whatever.  Is there a list of all the horrible
> things Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to
> demote him? As a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if
> Debian leadership was reasonable in demoting a valuable and long-term
> developer (because a project managed by unreasonable leadership is
> doomed).
>
> Regards,

Debian's leadership was no part of the decision to remove Norbert.

The task (and right) to decide who is or not a member of the project is
Consitutionally[0] delegated to a group of Developers named Debian
Account Managers. They're the only one able to take such decision, and
so they did.

There is no public list of the things that motivated their decision, and
you'll have to deal with that, as it doesn't seem that it will change.

Regards,

[0] https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution

-- 
PEB


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Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Norbert Preining  wrote on 24/01/2022 at 00:09:10+0100:

> Hi peb,
>
>> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian
>> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide.
>> 
>> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at
>> all, for the forementioned reason.
>
> That remains solely at my discretion. I will happily publish what is
> necessary to clarify positions and actions.
>
> Enjoy

Hi Norbert,

Luckily I used the word "should", because, clearly, we all know that
respecting the privacy of private lists is a moral contract.

So, while this would be bad-mannered, of course, you can publish
private mails, I doubt anyone would go in court for that.

But still, you shouldn't.

-- 
PEB


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Re: I've been caught out

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 6:19:24 AM EST to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:08:57AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, January 24, 2022 5:19:13 AM EST Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > > gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> > > > patch:
> > > > ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> > > > PREEMPT.patch: extra operand
> > > 
> > > man patch says
> > > 
> > >patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]
> > > 
> > > With "patchfile" being singular i'd expect that it refuses if you
> > > give
> > > more than one.
> > > Further it does not look as if you give an "originalfile", which is
> > > demanded by the common []-bracket around "originalfile
> > > [patchfile]".
> > > 
> > > So what file do you want to change by the patch ?
> > > Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?
> > 
> > No, its a directory with many patches. IMO patch should take them, in
> > their sorted order, until its out of patches.
> 
> The man page disagrees with you on that, as Thomas notes :)
> 
> >Or do we have a gui to
> > 
> > oversee that, something like kompare maybe? I'll take a look.
> 
> See my other answer for a quick-and-dirty proposal. There are several
> patch managers around which help you on that -- quilt is one of them.
> 

And once I had wrapped my brain around quilt, it just worked, the result 
is building right now. Thanks a bunch.

> Cheers
Take care Thomas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: I've been caught out

[tomas]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 03:15:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> And that might be the magic twanger, thank you Thomas. I'm finding it 
> harder and harder to think 'outside the box'.

very glad if some of my wall of text helps :)

take care
-- 
tomás


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Re: I've been caught out

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 5:27:45 AM EST to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:01:21AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> > 
> > I must admit its been quite a few years since the last time I used
> > patch. Basck in the early 90's when the amiga was king in the
> > graphic arts. And it then had a syntax of 'patch -p1 <
> > path/to/patchfile'
> > But now I have a ../patch directory with 50 or so files in it, and
> > patch is spanking me, starting with an ambiguous redirect if the <
> > is used,
> This ain't patch. This is the shell. If you do
> 
>   foo < file
> 
> ... then it's the shell's job to present file's content to foo on
> stdin. Foo doesn't even get to see file "as a file on your file
> system", just its content. Doing
> 
>   foo < file1 file2 file3...
> 
> will lead the shell to present the complaint above.
> 
> This might seem like superfluous nitpicking, but you won't understand
> what's going on unless you know that.
> 
> > And while it finds the patch file without it, its reporting an extra
> > operand. So whats todays syntax for a ../dir full of patches?
> 
> Now if you go to the patch man page (I know, I know :) you'll see that
> patch can take /the/ patch file either on stdin or as an optional
> second argument, instead of taking stdin. I emphasised /the/, because,
> according to the man page, it doesn't expect more than one. So that
> might be the extra operand complaint you are seeing...
> 
> > Example:
> > gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> > patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> > PREEMPT.patch: extra operand
> 
> Yes, that's it: the expression "../patches/*.patch" gets expanded by
> the shell to "../patches/foo.patch ../patches/bar.patch ..." and so
> on, so your little /usr/bin/patch gets so see this long list of args.
> No good.
> > And the man page doesn't address the 'extra operand' error.
> 
> Indirectly, yes:
> 
>   SYNOPSIS
>patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]
>but usually just
>patch -pnum  
> ...means it takes options, optionally an orig file name, and only then,
> optionally a patch file name (so if you want to provide the patch file
> name, you /have/ to provide the original file name, it seems).
> 
> Conclusion: you have to arrange for all those patches to be applied one
> after the other, in some order. Guessing from your first one, they are
> prefixed by a number, so that is most probably the one encoding that
> order.
> 
> You could try doing something along the lines of
> 
>   for f in ../patches/*.patch ; do
> patch -p1 < "$f"
>   done
> 
> Or you could have a look into quilt, which is supposed to automate such
> things.
> 
And that might be the magic twanger, thank you Thomas. I'm finding it 
harder and harder to think 'outside the box'.
> Cheers


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 24 ian 22, 01:37:55, max wrote:
> January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as  
> > community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the  
> > reasoning for their decisions. 
> 
> Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived emails of 
> public officials (not just mailing lists)

Does a foreign citizen enjoy the same right?

The various delegated teams (including DAM) ultimately answer only to 
Debian Project Members, all of which do have access to debian-private.

(see the Debian Project's Constitution for details)

As users we "only" get to enjoy the results of their labour, for free.
 
> Why does Debian need "private" mailing lists? What is it hiding from the 
> public?

There's this thing called "privacy", especially of the person directly 
affected.

In some countries there are even laws regulating that (e.g. the EU GDPR) 
and publicly sharing sensitive information about other persons is 
illegal.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[RP]

On 1/24/22 11:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:

I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
future. Not because I care that much about the  CoC, but because the
ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
expected quality.
Honestly, why do you even post this?  Noone is preventing anyone from 
trying or using other distros.  Noone should treat Debian or Linux or 
any other distro as anything more than a tool.

Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:
> 
> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
> future. Not because I care that much about the  CoC, but because the
> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
> expected quality.

Typically such (mostly off-topic) threads on d-u happen right before a 
major Debian release, when everybody is waiting for the new stable and 
there aren't many technical questions.

For this thread to happen so shortly *after* a major release, to me this 
indicates there aren't many problems with bullseye \o/.


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: GPU PCIe link speed

[Sarunas Burdulis]

On 1/21/22 17:07, Grzesiek wrote:

Hi there,

I noticed that all my GPU operate at PCIe 1.1=2.5GHz instead of PCIe 
2.0/3.0. Is there any way to force higher speed?


Hardware details below

---===### First system ###===---

CPU: i7-3770, Linux version 5.15.0-2-amd64

# dmesg  | grep bandwidth
[    0.224924] pci :01:00.0: 16.000 Gb/s available PCIe bandwidth, 
limited by 2.5 GT/s PCIe x8 link at :00:01.0 (capable of 126.016 
Gb/s with 8.0 GT/s PCIe x16 link)


# lspci

> ...
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK110 [GeForce GTX 
780] (rev a1)


Link speed might be set dynamically depending on load. You may do 
something like:


watch -n1 'lspci -vv -s 01:00.0 | grep Lnk'

and then find some task to load the GPU.

--
Sarunas Burdulis
Systems Administrator, Dartmouth Mathematics
math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas

· https://useplaintext.email ·


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Re: Hyper-typematic and Firefox responsiveness in Weston.

[peter]

The References list was becoming too long.  I've truncated it.

From: Andrei POPESCU 
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:15:56 +0100
> According to the manpage '--display' is an X11 option.
> 
> Could it be that it actually forces Firefox to run via XWayland or so?

Right oh.  I added this to .bashrc and tried on weston.

firew () { case "$#" in
  0) firefox-esr file:///home/peter/MY/Peter.html#Links & ;;
  1) firefox-esr "$1" & ;;
  *) echo "Too many arguments." ;; esac
  }

Unfortunately, no improvement apparent.

Thx,  ... P.


-- 
mobile: +1 778 951 5147
  VoIP: +1 604 670 0140
   48.7693 N 123.3053 W

Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?]

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:50:45AM -0800, RP wrote:
> > 
> This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule.  

By that, I presume you are referring to "The mailing lists exist to
foster the development and use of Debian. Non-constructive or off-topic
messages, along with other abuses, are not welcome" from the mailing
list code of conduct.  I agree that this thread has become rather
off-topic for this list.

> If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and posters".  

It does say that.  However, his choice of quoting sends a different
message.  Hence my request for additional information about the specific
offense that prompted the warning.

> This is for everyone.
>
There are ways to send messages intended "for everyone" and Andrew's
message seems (unintentionally, I assume) to single out particular
invidual in a somewhat threatning way.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-01-24 12:50, RP wrote:
> On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
 max wrote:

> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a
> double
> standard, but whatever.
 If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no
 force
 in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on
 biological sex.
 The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan
 Peterson
 on this subject.
 I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is
 it - he
 and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to
 speak.
 Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does
 not
 want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the
 Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson
 refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I
 have the
 same rights as you do. Period.

>>> Can I please remind readers and posters:
>>>
>>> Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound
>>> by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of
>>> conduct
>>> and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct.
>>>
>>> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>>> https://www.debian.org/support#irc
>>> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines
>>> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>>>
>>> Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate.
>>> Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team
>>>
>>> With thanks for your attention,
>>>
>>> Andrew Cater
>>> [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team]
>>>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be
>> communicating.  The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort
>> of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's
>> message.  The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an
>> off-topic thread.  There many contributors to that particular problem in
>> this case in addition to delpotes.
>>
>> Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what
>> boundary was skirted in this instance?
>>
>> In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and
>> more constructive with this additional bit of information added.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Roberto
>>
> This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule. 
> If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and
> posters".  This is for everyone.
> 

Copy of CoC :
1 - The mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Debian.
Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not
welcome.

2 - Do not use foul language; besides, some people receive the lists via
packet radio, where swearing is illegal.

3 - Try not to flame; it is not polite.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


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Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:36 Charlie Gibbs  wrote:

> On Mon Jan 24 08:51:46 2022 max  wrote:

…

Amen, brother!

-Tom

Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?]

[RP]

On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:

max wrote:


For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
developers voted not to censure him.
https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
standard, but whatever.

If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force
in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on
biological sex.
The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson
on this subject.
I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he
and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak.
Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not
want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the
Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson
refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the
same rights as you do. Period.


Can I please remind readers and posters:

Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound
by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct
and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct.

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
https://www.debian.org/support#irc
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate.
Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team

With thanks for your attention,

Andrew Cater
[For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team]


Andrew,

I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be
communicating.  The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort
of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's
message.  The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an
off-topic thread.  There many contributors to that particular problem in
this case in addition to delpotes.

Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what
boundary was skirted in this instance?

In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and
more constructive with this additional bit of information added.

Regards,

-Roberto

This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule.  
If you read Andrew's post, the first line says to "readers and 
posters".  This is for everyone.

Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Mon Jan 24 08:51:46 2022 max  wrote:

> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they",
> and Debian developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html
> Seems like a double standard, but whatever.

I've bookmarked that web page.  I largely agree with RMS on this one.
(Although regarding his "y'all" comment, a Texan once explained to me
that "y'all" is singular; the plural is "all y'all".)

This PC 2.0 fad (like PC 1.0 in the early 1990s) has gotten out of hand.
(My favourite riposte from the PC 1.0 era is "s/h/it".)

IMHO "they" is plural.  Period.  If we want genderless pronouns (and
I agree that we seem to need them) we should create something new,
rather than indulging in a grotesque form of operator overloading.

https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-06-01
https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-07-21

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |
\ /|  WOKE: Without Originality,
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  Knowledge, or Experience
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |

Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?]

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > max wrote:
> > 
> > > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> > > developers voted not to censure him.
> > > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> > > standard, but whatever.
> > 
> > If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force
> > in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on
> > biological sex.
> > The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson
> > on this subject.
> > I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he
> > and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak.
> > Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not
> > want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the
> > Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson
> > refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the
> > same rights as you do. Period.
> > 
> 
> Can I please remind readers and posters:
> 
> Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound 
> by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct 
> and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct.
> 
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
> https://www.debian.org/support#irc
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines
> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
> 
> Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. 
> Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team
> 
> With thanks for your attention,
> 
> Andrew Cater
> [For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team]
> 
Andrew,

I am very concerned by your message and the signal it seems to be
communicating.  The links you provided do not seem to describe any sort
of boundary or misbehavior which appears to be at issue in deloptes's
message.  The most egregious thing seems to be the continuation of an
off-topic thread.  There many contributors to that particular problem in
this case in addition to delpotes.

Could you perhaps describe precisely what offense was caused or what
boundary was skirted in this instance?

In the future, messages such as yours would appear less menacing and
more constructive with this additional bit of information added.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: smartd

[rhkramer]

On Sunday, January 23, 2022 10:57:53 AM to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:14:06AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:09:47 +
> > 
> > Andy Smith  wrote:
> > > Yes. When a drive sector goes bad, the drive cannot read from it, so
> > > you get an error in Linux when a read is attempted.
> > 
> > As I understand things, that isn't entirely correct. From what I
> > understand:
> > 
> > If the drive can read a sector without error, it passes the data to the
> > OS and that's it.
> > 
> > If it gets an error, it uses cyclical redundancy check (CRC) data to
> > reconstruct the data. If that fails, it reports an error to the OS. If
> > the CRC reconstruction is successful, the drive re-writes the sector
> > and passes the reconstructed data back to the OS.
> 
> It is actually more complicated as this. As I understand this Wikipedia
> entry [1], some errors while reading a block are to be expected: it
> seems to be more profitable to push the density to the limit where error
> correction picks up some rest. Only when the error rate surpasses some
> threshold the block is remapped.
> 
> I guess SMART counts the latter events, but actually I have no idea :)
> 
> And the error correction codes are a bit more sophisticated than plain
> CRC: Reed-Solomon or, more modern, low-density parity-check codes.

I would guess that the actual details vary depending  on the manufacturer and 
the revision level of the manufacturers firmware on the drive.

Re: Chromium security updates

[Christian Britz]

On 2022-01-24 12:44 UTC+0100, Richmond wrote:

>> I've built Version 100.0.4845.0 (Developer Build) (64-bit) and it seems
>> to be working fine here on debian 10.
> 
> Not OK actually, it is very slow.

The reason are probably enabled debug options.

Personally I am not satisfied with the security support for any browser
included in Debian, I just use original Firefox and Chrome (and
Thunderbird), which are easy to install. If you don't like/trust Google
but want to use a Chromium based browser, you might consider using
ungoogled-chromium.

[CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?]

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> max wrote:
> 
> > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> > developers voted not to censure him.
> > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> > standard, but whatever.
> 
> If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force
> in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on
> biological sex.
> The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson
> on this subject.
> I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he
> and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak.
> Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not
> want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the
> Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson
> refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the
> same rights as you do. Period.
> 

Can I please remind readers and posters:

Communication on this list, on IRC and on other Debian media are bound 
by the Debian mailing list code of conduct, the Debian IRC code of conduct 
and, above all, by the Debian Code of Conduct.

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
https://www.debian.org/support#irc
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRCChannelGuidelines
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

Action can and will be taken by listmasters if appropriate. 
Please also report issues with conduct to the Community Team

With thanks for your attention,

Andrew Cater
[For and on behalf of the Debian Community Team]

> -- 
> FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
> 

Re: hostname is being reset, killing net on reboot

[David Wright]

On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 15:01:09 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 07:09:27PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 23 Jan 2022 at 13:53:01 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:26:56 PM EST Felix Miata wrote:
> > > > Greg Wooledge composed on 2022-01-23 08:42 (UTC-0500):
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:50:56AM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > >> As far as I can tell (with my limited understanding of DNS) it only
> > > > >> makes it easier to share /etc/hosts with no obvious downside.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If that actually works, that's great news for Gene.  It means he can
> > > > > duplicate a single /etc/hosts file across all systems without needing
> > > > > to bolt on a unique per-system header afterward.
> > > > 
> > > > I've been sharing the very same hosts file among all my PCs for well
> > > > over a decade, probably closer to two.
> > > 
> > > And I have been for 2 decades and change as it once had an amiga as one 
> > > of its clients.
> > 
> > What advice would you give to a user regarding the benefits of a hosts
> > file as opposed to more modern techniques?
> 
> I'll treat this question as "static interface configuration and hosts
> files".
> 
> The advantage is that it's conceptually simpler.
> 
> The disadvantages are numerous.
> 
>  * Adding a new host, or changing a host's IP address, requires
>platform-specific knowledge on the host in question.  On a
>heterogeneous network, that means you need knowledge of how to do
>this on all the different platforms.  This may include devices like
>printers, where it's quite difficult, maybe even impossible, to
>configure an address without DHCP.
> 
>  * After a change is made, it has to be replicated across your entire
>network.  Manually.
> 
>  * Any "visitor" machines that are temporarily added to your network will
>need to be configured manually, and they will have zero knowledge of
>the other hosts on the network.  Even if you know their names, there
>won't be any DNS in which you can look up their addresses.
> 
> For anyone setting up a new home network, I'd recommend using DHCP.  It
> will be a lot simpler in the long run, especially if you start adding
> wireless devices (cell phones, tablets, TV streaming devices, etc.).
> Your router probably already acts as a DHCP server, so all you need to
> do is learn how to configure fixed addresses for specific computers (and
> printers) that want to act like servers.  The other devices can just get
> random addresses.  Guest machines can just be connected and start working
> without issues.

Yes, I'd agree with all those arguments for DHCP, which is why I use
it, hence its inclusion in my post at the top of this subthread, and
why I can't understand Gene's aversion to it. But that's all about
configuration, and the quoted comment at the top of this post is AIUI
about /resolving/ hostnames through /etc/hosts.

Some of us (not including Gene) don't have DNS resolvers built into
our routers, and don't want to have to run 24/7 yet another piece of
hardware (other than the already necessary modem and router
(routers in my case).

So from the list of IP addresses, hostnames and MAC addresses,
configured into and printed out from my master router, I compiled
a master list of the first and second items, which is transformed
into /etc/hosts as already shown. From the length of my list,
I'd estimate an addition or deletion occurs about twice a year—
less frequently really, as often they're paired +-.

(And I did answer Andrei's comment, albeit after you'd posted.
It's no harder to distribute transformed files than identical ones.)

But to get back to Gene's network, and his lack of certainty that,
when "ssh -Y rpi4" is typed, "dhcp hasn't rerouted my ssh session
to tlm.coyote.den." Well, from what we've been told (or it might be
from what's been gleaned over the years), we have a dozen machines
with, we hope, identical lists of hostname≡IPaddress in /etc/hosts,
but instead of a single location for their IPaddress configuration,
we have a dozen /e/n/i files. Just to make it more difficult to check
them, none of the latter will contain a hostname, of course, but only
a static IP address.

That seems a lot less robust than having two lists that can be
compared side by side, as I described in my own setup. If I had
a setup like that, I'd make sure that my /etc/hosts-distribution
script provoked a script on the target to check that the address
in /e/n/i matched the target's entry in /etc/hosts.

A couple of posts further up this subthread:

> > > > >> On Sb, 22 ian 22, 20:07:45, David Wright wrote:
> > > > >> > On Sat 22 Jan 2022 at 13:57:38 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > >> > > Linux goes out of its way to kill networking by ignoring what I 
> > > > >> > > put in a 
> > > > >> > > file in /etc/network/interfaces.d/anyoldname. And when some 
> > > > >> > > coder dinking 
> > > > >> > > around in dhcp code thinks the whole world 

Re: Debian Nordic Wiki uppdaterad 2021-2022

[Helio Loureiro]

Mycket bra!

./helio

On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 at 17:30, Luna Jernberg  wrote:

> Tja!
>
> Uppdaterade Wiki sidan för resten av 2021 och kommande 2022:
> https://wiki.debian.org/LocalGroups/DebianNordic
>

Re: Debian Nordic Wiki uppdaterad 2021-2022

[Helio Loureiro]

Mycket bra!

./helio

On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 at 17:30, Luna Jernberg  wrote:

> Tja!
>
> Uppdaterade Wiki sidan för resten av 2021 och kommande 2022:
> https://wiki.debian.org/LocalGroups/DebianNordic
>

Re: Nftables : Question d'un novice ...

[NoSpam]

Bonjour

Le 24/01/2022 à 13:56, Billard François-Marie a écrit :

Bonjour

question de novice quand à la gestion NFTABLES et n'étant pas 
spécialiste des réseaux.


Je dispose d'une machine qui d'un coté distribue des adresses pour un 
réseau local ( en filaire IP_Locale) et de l'autre coté un connexion 
WIFI (IP_WIFI) temporaire sur un portail captif (INTERNET).


Sur la même machine j'ai un serveur WEB local.

Ma question est quelle est la règle de routage pour que les requêtes 
sur des serveurs web en provenance de mon réseau local soient routées 
vers la connexion wifi.


nft add rule ip nat PREROUTING ip saddr 192.168.34.0/24 ip daddr != 
192.168.34.250 tcp dport 80 counter dnat to 10.0.0.1


Tu peux obtenir facilement les règles nftables en utilisant 
iptables-translate


iptables-translate -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -s 192.168.34.0/24 ! -d 
192.168.34.250 --dport 80 -j DNAT --to 10.0.0.1


qui te donneras le résultat ci dessus



Autrement formulé cela donne :

Si demande d'accès au serveur web local (IP_Locale)

    alors pas de routage

    sinon routage vers le wifi.

J'ai bien lu des doc sur nftables et compris le principe global de ce 
système, mais je n'arrive pas a cerner comment définir la règle 
ci-dessus.


Merci pour votre aide.

Bien cordialement

François-Marie BILLARD

Nftables : Question d'un novice ...

[Billard François-Marie]

Bonjour

question de novice quand à la gestion NFTABLES et n'étant pas 
spécialiste des réseaux.


Je dispose d'une machine qui d'un coté distribue des adresses pour un 
réseau local ( en filaire IP_Locale) et de l'autre coté un connexion 
WIFI (IP_WIFI) temporaire sur un portail captif (INTERNET).


Sur la même machine j'ai un serveur WEB local.

Ma question est quelle est la règle de routage pour que les requêtes sur 
des serveurs web en provenance de mon réseau local soient routées vers 
la connexion wifi.


Autrement formulé cela donne :

Si demande d'accès au serveur web local (IP_Locale)

    alors pas de routage

    sinon routage vers le wifi.

J'ai bien lu des doc sur nftables et compris le principe global de ce 
système, mais je n'arrive pas a cerner comment définir la règle ci-dessus.


Merci pour votre aide.

Bien cordialement

François-Marie BILLARD

Re: DNS resolver issue

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 07:05:27AM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:14:23AM +, Bhasker C V wrote:
> > I am running  example.local domain on my interface(192.168.2.1)  (bind9)
> > The domain is resolving fine. However I want to use 1.1.1.1 public DNS
> > server for looking up other domains (external domains)
> > Hence I have put both servers in /etc/resolv.conf
> > 
> > ``` nameserver 1.1.1.1
> > nameserver 192.168.2.1
> > search example.local```

This is fundamentally wrong.  All of the nameservers are treated equally.
It's not a "try one, and if that says no such domain, try another" thing.
It only tries another one if the first one doesn't give any response at
all.

> If you already are using bind, wouldn't it be the simplest way
> to put 1.1.1.1 as a forward in your configuration and
> then just use 192.168.2.1 as your recursive resolver?

This.  You need to use *only* 192.168.2.1 as your nameserver, and you
need to configure whatever software is running on that IP address to
forward non-local requests out to the public DNS resolver(s) of your
choice.  That'll be configured within the DNS software, not in the
/etc/resolv.conf file.

Re: I've been caught out

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:01:21AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch

That's not how you do it.  patch(1) can only accept one patch at a time,
and it expects to see it on standard input.

for p in ../patches/*.patch; do patch -p1 < "$p"; done

Re: Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:51:05AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> I've just noticed that: 
> 
> $ who
> 
> and
> 
> $ users
> 
> both return nothing, with or without sudo.

> Can anyone replicate this or suggest what may have happened?  I'm fairly sure 
> I've used who since upgrading from Buster.

Definitely can't replicate.  "who" gives me 28 lines of output for all
of my terminals.

As far as suggesting a cause -- we'd need more info.  Which init system
are you using?  How are you logging in?  Are you using any terminal
emulators, and if so, which one(s)?

Is the /var file system full?  (Or any mount underneath /var if you have
such.)

Have you done anything unique or unusual to your system that would cause
it not to log sessions in /var/run/utmp?

> $ sudo strace who
> 
> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
> directory)
> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
> file or directory)
> access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or 
> directory)
> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such 
> file or directory)
> close(1)= 0
> close(2)= 0
> exit_group(0)   = ?
> +++ exited with 0 +++

Your /var/run/utmp file is missing.  That's definitely going to cause
a problem here.

Here's what mine looks like:

unicorn:~$ df /var/run
Filesystem 1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
tmpfs1215580  1456   1214124   1% /run
unicorn:~$ ls -ld /var/run
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 11  2018 /var/run -> /run/
unicorn:~$ ls -l /var/run/utmp
-rw-rw-r-- 1 root utmp 12288 Jan 20 15:08 /var/run/utmp

I don't know what happened to yours, but since /run is an in-memory
file system, all of the stuff inside it (including the utmp file) has
to be created at boot time, or at login time at the very latest.

You could try creating the file with the correct user/group/perms and
see if that helps, but that probably won't survive the next reboot.

You could also try rebooting and see if it gets created correctly.  If
it doesn't, then I guess you get to dive into the internals of your
init system to discover what's going wrong.

Or... maybe you're just missing the /var/run symlink?  Definitely check
that.

Re: I've been caught out

[Mark Allums]

On 1/24/22 05:08, gene heskett wrote:

On Monday, January 24, 2022 5:19:13 AM EST Thomas Schmitt wrote:

Hi,


gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
PREEMPT.patch: extra operand


man patch says

patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]

With "patchfile" being singular i'd expect that it refuses if you give
more than one.
Further it does not look as if you give an "originalfile", which is
demanded by the common []-bracket around "originalfile [patchfile]".

So what file do you want to change by the patch ?
Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?


No, its a directory with many patches. IMO patch should take them, in
their sorted order, until its out of patches. Or do we have a gui to
oversee that, something like kompare maybe? I'll take a look.


(I get that error if i give three dummy file arguments.
  If i give two i get a lot of "Hunk ... FAILED at .." because my second
file is no properly formatted patch.
  If i give one, the program waits for standard input.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


Thanks Thomas, stay well now.

.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.



There exist tools for this.  What about quilt?

Mark A.

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[deloptes]

Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> Hi deloptes,
> 
> It depends very much on the machine. I've just saved a machine that has
> 32 bit UEFI implementation and a 64 bit Atom processor. It's an Intel
> Baytrail with a small amount of memory [2G] but required the Debian
> multi-arch .iso to boot.
> 
> A later model of the same series - Lenovo Ideapad - does support 64 bit
> UEFI and UEFI processor. Which machine do you have and what's the
> processor?
> 
> All the very best
> 
> Andy Cater
> 
> Which machine, which processor.

Thank you
I did not know that it could be different BIOS arch version - but of course
why not.
The PC is Fujitsu Esprimo C700
http://support.harlander.com/upload-artikelsupport/computer/fujitsu-siemens/esprimo-c700/c700-datenblatt.pdf

CPU is
vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 6
model   : 42
model name  : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz

information is too little

thank you in advance

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: Chromium security updates

[Richmond]

Richmond  writes:

> Salvatore Bonaccorso  writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 07:20:26PM +0100, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>> On Jo, 20 ian 22, 00:08:52, Richmond wrote:
>>> > I see debian 10's chromium is currently on version 90.0.4430.212
>>> > (Developer Build), whereas google-chrome is on Version 97.0.4692.99
>>> > (Official Build) (64-bit). Does that mean it is out of date and has
>>> > security vulnerabilities?
>>> > 
>>> > https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/search/label/Stable%20updates
>>> 
>>> The plan was:
>>> 
>>> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#browser-security
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately both Firefox and Chromium proved to be much more of a 
>>> challenge then expected at the time of releasing Debian 10 "buster" (now 
>>> oldstable).
>>> 
>>> Firefox appears to be in slightly better shape (updated version 
>>> available in bullseye/stable, still pending for buster/oldstable).
>>
>> In fact support for chromium in oldstable has been discontinued, see
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2022/msg00012.html . 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Salvatore
>
> I've built Version 100.0.4845.0 (Developer Build) (64-bit) and it seems
> to be working fine here on debian 10.

Not OK actually, it is very slow.

Re: DNS resolver issue

[Henning Follmann]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:14:23AM +, Bhasker C V wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>  Please could someone help me with  what I am doing wrong ?
> 
> I am running  example.local domain on my interface(192.168.2.1)  (bind9)
> The domain is resolving fine. However I want to use 1.1.1.1 public DNS
> server for looking up other domains (external domains)
> Hence I have put both servers in /etc/resolv.conf
> 
> ``` nameserver 1.1.1.1
> nameserver 192.168.2.1
> search example.local```
> 
[...]

If you already are using bind, wouldn't it be the simplest way
to put 1.1.1.1 as a forward in your configuration and
then just use 192.168.2.1 as your recursive resolver?

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[deloptes]

max wrote:

> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> standard, but whatever.

If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no force
in this universe to tell me not to use the pronouns he and she based on
biological sex.
The opposite is complete madness: I recommend listening to Jordan Peterson
on this subject.
I doubt RMS is authority in this field. He has opinion and this is it - he
and not only he - no one has the authority to tell you or me how to speak.
Language is to help us understand each other. Obviously someone does not
want to admit to this basic rule and wants us to roll over into the
Overtone window. It is absolutely unnecessary discussion. J. Peterson
refuses to accept, I refuse and many others. It is perfectly OK. I have the
same rights as you do. Period.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:55:20AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Thank you for the response
> 
> David Christensen wrote:
> 
> > I have a computer with an Intel DQ67SW desktop motherboard (released Q1,
> > 2011).  The Setup utility allows me to select BIOS/MBR mode or UEFI/GPT
> > mode.  d-i seems to detect if the computer is running in BIOS/MBR mode
> > or in UEFI/GPT mode, and performs an install to match.  So, I installed
> > Debian twice (via textual "Install") onto a pair of USB sticks, once in
> > each mode.  (An "Expert" installation may offer more options.)
> 
> Ah 2011 seems right to match the one that refer to here.
> I can boot from the CD/DVD into UEFI, but it seems I can not do the same
> from the USB.
> The USB which is UEFI can boot the newer notebook (has secure mode)
> 
> > 
> > I mostly run my computers in BIOS/MBR mode, and use the BIOS/MBR USB
> > stick frequently.
> > 
> > 
> > I have limited experience with the UEFI/GPT USB stick.  I need to test
> > it on a newer computer with Secure Boot, and may need to create a third
> > USB stick.
> > 
> > 
> > AIUI d-i and Debian Live are open-source projects.  I believe they both
> > support all of the above in a single image.  If you have the skills,
> > perhaps you could fork one and create your own image with the tools you
> > want.
> 
> The question is if it is not limited by the board. If I disable Legacy USB I
> can not use the keyboard/mouse and I have to reset the bios.
> 
> But even in Legacy mode I see in boot options UEFI USB disk, however it does
> not boot, but same stick boots on the more recent notebook.
> 
> Does someone knows more about it. What and where to check? I would not spend
> time if it is the boards BIOS. I'll just keep a copy of the DVD/CD as
> rescue
> 
> thanks
> 
> -- 
> FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
>

Hi deloptes,

It depends very much on the machine. I've just saved a machine that has
32 bit UEFI implementation and a 64 bit Atom processor. It's an Intel Baytrail
with a small amount of memory [2G] but required the Debian multi-arch .iso
to boot.

A later model of the same series - Lenovo Ideapad - does support 64 bit UEFI
and UEFI processor. Which machine do you have and what's the processor?

All the very best 

Andy Cater

Which machine, which processor. 

Re: I've been caught out

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

gene heskett wrote:
> > > gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch

I wrote:
> > Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?

gene heskett wrote:
> No, its a directory with many patches.

So you effectively ran something like

  patch -p1  ../patches/abc.patch ../patches/bla.patch [maybe more] 
../patches/.patch

This does not match any of the use cases in the man page.

At most two file paths are expected with:

   patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]

No file path at all is expected by

   patch -pnum  IMO patch should take them, in
> their sorted order, until its out of patches.

That would be possible with the first use case. But there the developers
obviously decided to accept only a single patch file.
Well, you don't want this use case anyways. (Because you have no single
originalfile to give as argument before the .patch files.)


The shell offers means to create a workaround. Try:

  for i in ../patches/*.patch ; do patch <"$i" ; done

The for-do-done loop will run patch separately for each of your .patch
files.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: I've been caught out

[tomas]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 06:08:57AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 5:19:13 AM EST Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > > gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> > > patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> > > PREEMPT.patch: extra operand
> > 
> > man patch says
> > 
> >patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]
> > 
> > With "patchfile" being singular i'd expect that it refuses if you give
> > more than one.
> > Further it does not look as if you give an "originalfile", which is
> > demanded by the common []-bracket around "originalfile [patchfile]".
> > 
> > So what file do you want to change by the patch ?
> > Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?
> > 
> No, its a directory with many patches. IMO patch should take them, in 
> their sorted order, until its out of patches.

The man page disagrees with you on that, as Thomas notes :)

>Or do we have a gui to 
> oversee that, something like kompare maybe? I'll take a look.

See my other answer for a quick-and-dirty proposal. There are several
patch managers around which help you on that -- quilt is one of them.

Cheers
-- 
tomás


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: I've been caught out

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 5:19:13 AM EST Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> > gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> > patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> > PREEMPT.patch: extra operand
> 
> man patch says
> 
>patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]
> 
> With "patchfile" being singular i'd expect that it refuses if you give
> more than one.
> Further it does not look as if you give an "originalfile", which is
> demanded by the common []-bracket around "originalfile [patchfile]".
> 
> So what file do you want to change by the patch ?
> Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?
> 
No, its a directory with many patches. IMO patch should take them, in 
their sorted order, until its out of patches. Or do we have a gui to 
oversee that, something like kompare maybe? I'll take a look.

> (I get that error if i give three dummy file arguments.
>  If i give two i get a lot of "Hunk ... FAILED at .." because my second
> file is no properly formatted patch.
>  If i give one, the program waits for standard input.)
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)
> 
> Thomas
> 
Thanks Thomas, stay well now.
> .


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: DNS resolver issue

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:14:23AM +, Bhasker C V wrote:
> $ dig +short server.example.local
> 192.168.2.2

Just in case, using ".local" domain that way violates RFC 6762.  There
are numerous ways to name your private domain, but ".local" is not a
proper name for that.

> Now, isnt the lookup supposed to fall back to next server if first one
> doesnt have an answer ?

Only if the first DNS is unreachable or returning SERVFAIL.
Your is returning NXDOMAIN, so this behaviour is expected.


> How does multiple DNS servers entry work in resolv.conf ?

Barring "options rotate", always try first nameserver specified for any
query, switch to the second if timeout (5 seconds by default, according
to resolv.conf(5), 30 seconds in practice) is reached.


Easiest way to solve your problem would be specify an public resolver
(1.1.1.1) in your bind configuration for anything but your domain, and
then use only 192.168.2.1 in your resolv.conf.

Reco

Re: trying to get bookworm net going on an rpi4

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 2:38:08 AM EST Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 06:22:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > And I just noticed this is an arm64 build, I need an armhf, where can
> > I get that from?
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> In the mail where I replied to you last night, I pointed out it was an
> arm64 build. Debian builds 64 bit for the Raspberry Pi 3 and 4:
> Raspberry Pi Foundation buid 32 bit for all Raspberry Pis -
> irrespective of processor - to allow some backwards compatibility.
> They do things differently there - that's OK.
> 
> Short answer: As far as I can see: you can't unless:
> 
> a.) You go back to Raspberry Pi OS Lite - and deal with the Raspberry
> Pi userland and kernel - and level of support.

Which for me, exists only thru apt. I'm subscribed, but blocked from 
posting on their forum. Their loss.

> b.) You build it yourself - using the same scripts as Gunnar does - but
> I would advise spending a time familiarising yourself with them _and_
> talking to Gunnar. No guarantees that this will work.
> 
> c.) You build something else yourself - again, no guarantees.
> 
> As ever, you're out on the very edge of anyone else being readily able
> to support you. There was someone suggesting building and maintaining
> native Debian packages for LinuxCNC. I don't know how far that got
> and I suspect they'd only be for amd64 architecture.

Nope, the LinuxCNC folks and me have been doing it for quite some time 
now.
 
Sorry to disappoint, but I've been building debs of LinuxCNC master on 
the armhf, or downloading it from the buildbot since back in the rpi3b 
days. Usually from the buildbot, but if its jammed it takes me around an 
hour to build it on a 2gig rpi4b working against an SSD. I also have one 
of my x86-64 machines setup to do that. Not at all difficult to generate 
my own .deb's and install them with dpkg.  As for bleeding edge, I play 
the part of the canary in the coal mine, reporting problems before others 
get stung, but we have good coders, I've only failed twice in around 3 or 
maybe 4 years now, But I'm not one of the good coders, I do it all with 
bash scripts.  Sometimes twice a day when the git commits are fast & 
furious.

> Building realtime pre-emptive kernels and getting them to run on a Pi 4
> - that's deep magic and you might need to find a Pi 4 expert from
> among the Raspberry Pi Foundation folks - their 64 bit OS is a rough
> beta at the moment, I think.

That may be, but debians arm64 is also rougher than a corn cob.
But I'm running the armhf full version of buster on that pi4 and it Just 
Works with all the eye candy you'll want. Uptimes are until I unplug it 
from the ups. Cheap $35 ups, and it lasts long enough to start the 
generac I put in years ago to make sure Dee's oxygen generator had power.

And they'll block you from posting to their forum forever if you ask 
about realtime preempt kernels a third time, they do NOT support, nor 
allow any such conversations on their forum.

As for the deep magic Andy, the only thing I had to invent to put a 
realtime kernel on a pi, was how to install it, the foundation does not 
share enough info to allow that to be made into a deb. So I've been doing 
it from a 24 megabyte tarball for around 3 years now.  You can get that 
file from my web page in the sig if you know where to look. But its 
getting a bit long in the tooth now, its a 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ kernel, 
latency-test says about 12 microseconds unless firefox is running at the 
same time. firefox is a pig. But we all know that ;o)

> All the very best, as ever,

Take care & stay well Andy. 

> Andy Cater

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: USB UEFI recovery stick

[deloptes]

Thank you for the response

David Christensen wrote:

> I have a computer with an Intel DQ67SW desktop motherboard (released Q1,
> 2011).  The Setup utility allows me to select BIOS/MBR mode or UEFI/GPT
> mode.  d-i seems to detect if the computer is running in BIOS/MBR mode
> or in UEFI/GPT mode, and performs an install to match.  So, I installed
> Debian twice (via textual "Install") onto a pair of USB sticks, once in
> each mode.  (An "Expert" installation may offer more options.)

Ah 2011 seems right to match the one that refer to here.
I can boot from the CD/DVD into UEFI, but it seems I can not do the same
from the USB.
The USB which is UEFI can boot the newer notebook (has secure mode)

> 
> I mostly run my computers in BIOS/MBR mode, and use the BIOS/MBR USB
> stick frequently.
> 
> 
> I have limited experience with the UEFI/GPT USB stick.  I need to test
> it on a newer computer with Secure Boot, and may need to create a third
> USB stick.
> 
> 
> AIUI d-i and Debian Live are open-source projects.  I believe they both
> support all of the above in a single image.  If you have the skills,
> perhaps you could fork one and create your own image with the tools you
> want.

The question is if it is not limited by the board. If I disable Legacy USB I
can not use the keyboard/mouse and I have to reset the bios.

But even in Legacy mode I see in boot options UEFI USB disk, however it does
not boot, but same stick boots on the more recent notebook.

Does someone knows more about it. What and where to check? I would not spend
time if it is the boards BIOS. I'll just keep a copy of the DVD/CD as
rescue

thanks

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: Authentication required message window after nvidia drivers installation.

[Thanos Katsiolis]

Hello Andrei, thank you for your answer,

and sorry for my late answer, but today again I have access to this
machine.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 9:51 AM Andrei POPESCU 
wrote:

>
> This is likely completely unrelated to installing the NVIDIA drivers.
>
>
I am certain that it has to be something with the NVIDIA drivers
installation, because this started immediately after installing the
drivers. For over a month that the drivers were not installed, there was no
problem.


> Please provide more information about your Desktop Environment and the
> applications that exhibit this behaviour.
>
> Any other non-Debian software on the system?
>

I use the GNOME Wayland. Furthermore, there are various applications that
exhibit this behavior like Spotify, Skype and PyCharm. The message
appears when an application launches or when it opens a new window and not
while using the application, for example when browsing Spotify.


>
> The output of 'id' in a terminal might provide some hints as well (feel
> free to obscure your user and group name, the interesting part is what
> other groups, if any, your user is a member of).
>
>
The output of the command says that me account is also part of a group.
This is not a home setup. Can should I see particularly from 'id'?


> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


Kind regards,
- Thanos.

Re: I've been caught out

[tomas]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:01:21AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I must admit its been quite a few years since the last time I used patch.
> Basck in the early 90's when the amiga was king in the graphic arts.
> And it then had a syntax of 'patch -p1 < path/to/patchfile'
> But now I have a ../patch directory with 50 or so files in it, and patch 
> is spanking me, starting with an ambiguous redirect if the < is used,  

This ain't patch. This is the shell. If you do

  foo < file

... then it's the shell's job to present file's content to foo on stdin.
Foo doesn't even get to see file "as a file on your file system", just
its content. Doing

  foo < file1 file2 file3...

will lead the shell to present the complaint above.

This might seem like superfluous nitpicking, but you won't understand
what's going on unless you know that.

> And while it finds the patch file without it, its reporting an extra 
> operand. So whats todays syntax for a ../dir full of patches?

Now if you go to the patch man page (I know, I know :) you'll see that
patch can take /the/ patch file either on stdin or as an optional second
argument, instead of taking stdin. I emphasised /the/, because, according
to the man page, it doesn't expect more than one. So that might be the
extra operand complaint you are seeing...

> Example:
> gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> PREEMPT.patch: extra operand

Yes, that's it: the expression "../patches/*.patch" gets expanded by the
shell to "../patches/foo.patch ../patches/bar.patch ..." and so on, so
your little /usr/bin/patch gets so see this long list of args. No good.

> And the man page doesn't address the 'extra operand' error.

Indirectly, yes:

  SYNOPSIS
   patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]
   but usually just
   patch -pnum 

signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: I've been caught out

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

> gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
> patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
> PREEMPT.patch: extra operand

man patch says

   patch [options] [originalfile [patchfile]]

With "patchfile" being singular i'd expect that it refuses if you give
more than one.
Further it does not look as if you give an "originalfile", which is demanded
by the common []-bracket around "originalfile [patchfile]".

So what file do you want to change by the patch ?
Does ../patches/*.patch evaluate to a single file ?

(I get that error if i give three dummy file arguments.
 If i give two i get a lot of "Hunk ... FAILED at .." because my second
 file is no properly formatted patch.
 If i give one, the program waits for standard input.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

DNS resolver issue

[Bhasker C V]

Hi all,

 Please could someone help me with  what I am doing wrong ?

I am running  example.local domain on my interface(192.168.2.1)  (bind9)
The domain is resolving fine. However I want to use 1.1.1.1 public DNS
server for looking up other domains (external domains)
Hence I have put both servers in /etc/resolv.conf

``` nameserver 1.1.1.1
nameserver 192.168.2.1
search example.local```

However dig stops after it gets a null result from 1.1.1.1 and does not
proceed to 192.168.2.1 to ask for server.example.local
i.e
```
$ dig server.example.local

; <<>> DiG 9.17.21-1-Debian <<>> server.example.local
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; WARNING: .local is reserved for Multicast DNS
;; You are currently testing what happens when an mDNS query is leaked to
DNS
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 11268
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 1232
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;server.example.local.  IN  A

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
.   86400   IN  SOA a.root-servers.net.
nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2022012400 1800 900 604800 86400

;; Query time: 103 msec
;; SERVER: 1.1.1.1#53(1.1.1.1) (UDP)
;; WHEN: Mon Jan 24 10:03:50 GMT 2022
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 124

```

WHEREAS if I switch the resolv.conf to have my DNS first (and then 1.1.1.1)
, the local resolution works whereas external resolution does not work
```
nameserver 192.168.2.1
nameserver 1.1.1.1
search example.local```

$ dig +short server.example.local
192.168.2.2



Now, isnt the lookup supposed to fall back to next server if first one
doesnt have an answer ? How does multiple DNS servers entry work in
resolv.conf ?
My nsswitch.conf is :

hosts:  files dns [NOTFOUND=merge]


Please help.

Regards
Bhasker

Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[harryweaver]

24 Jan 2022, 19:52 by maxwi...@mailfence.com:

> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian 
> developers voted not to censure him. 
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double 
> standard, but whatever.
>
> BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX on Debian many times. So let me take this 
> opportunity to say thanks.
>

And so say all of us!
Cheers!

Harry.

I've been caught out

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

I must admit its been quite a few years since the last time I used patch.
Basck in the early 90's when the amiga was king in the graphic arts.
And it then had a syntax of 'patch -p1 < path/to/patchfile'
But now I have a ../patch directory with 50 or so files in it, and patch 
is spanking me, starting with an ambiguous redirect if the < is used,  
And while it finds the patch file without it, its reporting an extra 
operand. So whats todays syntax for a ../dir full of patches?

Example:
gene@coyote:~/Debian-arm/linux$ patch -p1  ../patches/*.patch
patch: ../patches/0001-mm-memcg-Disable-threshold-event-handlers-on-
PREEMPT.patch: extra operand

And the man page doesn't address the 'extra operand' error.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

[max]

For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian developers 
voted not to censure him. 
https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double 
standard, but whatever.

BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX on Debian many times. So let me take this 
opportunity to say thanks.


-- 
Sent with https://mailfence.com  
Secure and private email

Bullseye - who and users return nothing

[Gareth Evans]

Hello,

I've just noticed that: 

$ who

and

$ users

both return nothing, with or without sudo.

$ sudo strace who

access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
access("/var/run/utmpx", F_OK)  = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
openat(AT_FDCWD, "/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file 
or directory)
close(1)= 0
close(2)= 0
exit_group(0)   = ?
+++ exited with 0 +++

I found these which look at least semi-relevant for other distros;  the redhat 
link seems to suggest a failure at or before login.

https://www.suse.com/support/kb/doc/?id=17277
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1396065

- but nothing for Debian - so any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Can anyone replicate this or suggest what may have happened?  I'm fairly sure 
I've used who since upgrading from Buster.

Would try creating the files but I'm not sure of Debian's ownership/permissions 
requirements.

$ cat /etc/debian_version
11.2

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?)

[mick crane]

On 2022-01-23 19:54, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

I have no idea what are your plan to reach down the road but you may 
get

much more than you expect.


I think this is what is called gaslighting.

mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31