Re: A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 6:10 PM Bret Busby  wrote:

> On 3/6/23 06:33, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 4:49 PM Bret Busby  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 2/6/23 23:55, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >  > Luddites of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your
> > upgrade
> >  > treadmills
> >
> > If, by upgrade treadmills, you mean the flatbed treadmills, that
> have a
> > belt that is turned by the human walking on it, rather than the
> > electric
> > ones with electric motors for lazy humans, the ones that have the
> belt
> >
> >
> > I'm afraid he meant the treadmill that used to be called "planned
> > obsolescence". The thought that a perfectly satisfactory machine no
> > longer suffices for you because it is "yesterday's model". Thereafter it
> > will stop working with newer machines (or software) which are intended
> > to be incompatible with it.
> > And what is the end in view?
> > Sell you a new machine.
> >
> >
>
> Interesting.
>
> Last year, I bought the computer described below, as a refurbished
> machine, and, it is far superior to the new computers that do not come
> with enough RAM to be worthwhile.
>
> This computer, with 128GB RAM, I regard as far superior to an i9
> computer with 8GB RAM.
> .
>
> Refurbished computer profile (with 128GB RAM (that runs about 200
> windows of Firefox (I have one saved session, with 229 windows, and
> about 3200 tabs), while viewing movies (I also have about 10 movies open
> at present, in Celluloid and SMPlayer), although, at present, I have
> only about 127 Firefox windows open, with 1689 tabs):


Holy cow! :-)
No wonder you have 128GB RAM. You will need that much for that much
Firefox. It's a peeve of mine how resource intensive it is for a browser
compared to the competition.

Ned Ludd had his head screwed on straight. And was apparently a legendary
lover :-)
I have read that 3 Luddite sledgehammers have survived. There's your
solution for obsolescent  machinery :-)

Some computers, like this one, perform far better, than the cheap and
> nasty new computers (which cost far more, and, far too much), with the
> new computers being best described as rubbish, produced by increasingly
> malicious manufacturers (that make freedom of choice of operating
> systems, and, performance, impossible)
>



..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
>
>

Re: 10 year old machines are slow (was: A hypervisor for a headless server?)

[David Christensen]

On 6/2/23 12:19, Stefan Monnier wrote:

The most recent general-purpose Intel CPU without VT-X is from 2012.

[...]

*everything* on processors that old is slow.


Actually, for many (most?) single-threaded applications, I wouldn't be
surprised if some 2010 CPUs end up within a factor 3 of the most badass
desktop you can find today.



I do Perl development and like to run my module test suites in parallel 
to shorten the develop-test cycle.  Tuned correctly, I can keep all 8 
threads busy on my quad-core Hyper-Threading processors for the majority 
of the run time.



These are the test platforms (all have SATA 6 Gbps SSD's and enough 
memory to avoid swapping):


* Dell Latitude E6520 laptop with Core i7-2720QM (Q1'11)

* Homebrew Antec tower with Intel DQ67SW desktop board and Core i7-2600S 
processor (Q1'11)


* Dell Precision 3630 with Xeon E-2174G (Q3'18)


I will look up the PassMark CPU Mark scores for the various processors, 
gather Perl module test suite run time data, and do a Power Regression 
analysis with LibreOffice Calc:


https://help.libreoffice.org/6.1/en-US/text/scalc/01/statistics_regression.html?DbPAR=CALC

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php


Here is the data table for the regression analysis:

x   y
CPU MarkTest Time
(dim)   (seconds)
Core i7-2720QM  406824.033
Core i7-2600S   459422.985
Xeon E-2174G971216.544


Here is the resulting equation:

y = exp(6.779011065)*(x^-0.43266897)


Here are the predicted Test Time values for a Core i7-2600 (Q1'11) and a 
Core i7-13700 (Q1'23):


x   y
CPU MarkTest Time
(dim)   (seconds)
i7-2600 533021.461
i7-13700389959.072


So, the Core i7-13700 is predicted to be faster than the Core i7-2600 by 
a factor of 21.461 / 9.072 = 2.366.



David

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Stefan Monnier]

> 5~10 years ago, I cut the end off of a bad red SATA cable.
> To my surprise, the copper conductor was disintegrating as Gene describes.
> Unbelievable.
> Somebody botched their chemical engineering.

Cool: second first hand account.  Thanks.
So there is at least some anectodal evidence.

I also found a potentially related reference to a 70's problem
with corrosive wire insulation at 
https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/304699/Oxidation+of+copper+wire
but still can't find anything more concrete (and that one doesn't
mention the insulation's dye as the culprit).


Stefan

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> If rust colored dust falls from where copper used to be, you have your
>>> evidence.
>> Right.  But I don't have that, so I don't have my evidence.  Do you?
> I didn't know I needed to save it at the time, so nothing physical.

First hand reports count as evidence, thanks.

>> Can you point to such stories being reported somewhere?
>> My web-searches all turn up empty.
> I remember searching got hits at the time, but that was many many many
> moons ago.

Hmm... how do I do web-search in the Internet Archive ...?


Stefan

Re: Bullseye to Bookworm upgrade [apache 503 issue solved]

[Gareth Evans]

On Fri  2 Jun 2023, at 03:58, Gareth Evans  wrote:

> Firefox at http(s)://localhost/sitename gives a 503

> Neither /var/log/apache2/error.log nor /var/log/syslog seem to provide 
> any clues to the problem.

I take that back, and apache 503 issue solved - 
/etc/apcache2/conf-available/php7.4-fpm.conf is not purged during/after upgrade.

$ sudo cat /var/log/apache2/error.log

[Sat Jun 03 01:16:18.274637 2023] [proxy:error] [pid 681699] (2)No such file or 
directory: AH02454: FCGI: attempt to connect to Unix domain socket 
/run/php/php7.4-fpm.sock (*:80) failed
[Sat Jun 03 01:16:18.274742 2023] [proxy_fcgi:error] [pid 681699] [client 
127.0.0.1:44366] AH01079: failed to make connection to backend: httpd-UDS

user@qwerty:~$ sudo apt remove php7.4-fpm

Package 'php7.4-fpm' is not installed, so not removed


user@qwerty:~$ sudo a2dismod php7.4-fpm
ERROR: Module php7.4-fpm does not exist!

user@qwerty:~$ apt policy php7.4-fpm
php7.4-fpm:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
 7.4.33-1+deb11u3 -1
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

user@qwerty:~$ apt policy php7.4
php7.4:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
user@qwerty:~$ 

user@qwerty:~$ sudo a2dismod php7.4
Module php7.4 already disabled

user@qwerty:~$ ls /etc/apache2/conf-avail*|grep php7
php7.4-fpm.conf

user@qwerty:/etc/apache2/conf-available$ sudo mv php7.4-fpm.conf 
php7.4-fpm.conf.ignore
user@qwerty:/etc/apache2/conf-available$ sudo service apache2 restart

Works as expected, except may need to change

AllowOverride None
to
AllowOverride [your settings of choice]

in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf for .htaccess to be honoured.

HTH someone.
Gareth

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

Am Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:22:27PM -0400 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
>
> I was thinking of these changes in Stretch:
> 
>  * For many Intel graphics chipsets, the Stretch X server will use the
>modeset driver instead of the intel driver. The modeset driver may
>require non-free firmware (firmware-misc-nonfree) to activate features,
>even on systems which did not use this firmware under Jessie.
> 
>  * For some older graphics chipsets, support has been relegated to
>"legacy drivers", which require the old setuid X server to run. Install
>xserver-xorg-legacy if you require one of these drivers.
> 
> Text from .  This may have nothing
> to do with your issue.  It's just the first thing I could think of that
> could possibly be related.
> 

At this point I have to ask: Is my problem reproducible?

I find it problematic that if you run startx (i3-wm) as user at tty xorg still 
run as root by default.

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 12:11:47AM +, therealcyclist wrote:
> Am Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 07:52:03PM -0400 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> > No "needs_root_rights" here, so I don't know why yours needs it.  Maybe
> > it's got something to do with driver selection?  If I recall correctly
> > from the days when this change was made, some cards that use legacy
> > drivers may need special configuration.
> 
> graphic driver is nvidia.
> secureboot is activated with mok (debian default key).
> 
> what makes you think it's different with e.g. amdgpu?

I was thinking of these changes in Stretch:

 * For many Intel graphics chipsets, the Stretch X server will use the
   modeset driver instead of the intel driver. The modeset driver may
   require non-free firmware (firmware-misc-nonfree) to activate features,
   even on systems which did not use this firmware under Jessie.

 * For some older graphics chipsets, support has been relegated to
   "legacy drivers", which require the old setuid X server to run. Install
   xserver-xorg-legacy if you require one of these drivers.

Text from .  This may have nothing
to do with your issue.  It's just the first thing I could think of that
could possibly be related.

Re: Bullseye to Bookworm upgrade issues

[Gareth Evans]

On Sat  3 Jun 2023, at 01:15, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> On Fri  2 Jun 2023, at 03:58, Gareth Evans  wrote:
>> I have upgraded Bullseye with root on ZFS to Bookworm, but I wonder if 
>> the 4 upgrade issues I encountered are worth reporting?
>>
>> If so, which packages would be advisable to report against, please?
>
> I forgot to mention, after the upgrade failure after DM restart, on 
> logging in again I was "required by the administrator" to change my 
> password.  This seems odd.

And syslog shows repeatedly:

2023-06-03T01:16:33.008969+01:00 qwerty mariadbd[2469]: 2023-06-03  1:16:33 
1793 [ERROR] Incorrect definition of table mysql.column_stats: expected column 
'hist_type' at position 9 to have type 
enum('SINGLE_PREC_HB','DOUBLE_PREC_HB','JSON_HB'), found type 
enum('SINGLE_PREC_HB','DOUBLE_PREC_HB').
2023-06-03T01:16:33.009050+01:00 qwerty mariadbd[2469]: 2023-06-03  1:16:33 
1793 [ERROR] Incorrect definition of table mysql.column_stats: expected column 
'histogram' at position 10 to have type longblob, found type varbinary(255).

...which I think may pertain to the apache 503 issue.

Re: Bullseye to Bookworm upgrade issues

[Gareth Evans]

On Fri  2 Jun 2023, at 03:58, Gareth Evans  wrote:
> I have upgraded Bullseye with root on ZFS to Bookworm, but I wonder if 
> the 4 upgrade issues I encountered are worth reporting?
>
> If so, which packages would be advisable to report against, please?

I forgot to mention, after the upgrade failure after DM restart, on logging in 
again I was "required by the administrator" to change my password.  This seems 
odd.

Thanks,
Gareth

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

Am Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 07:52:03PM -0400 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> That's quite strange.  I have not installed bookworm, but I just upgraded
> to it.  I use startx as well (but with fvwm instead of i3-wm), and I'm not
> seeing this problem.  Xorg runs as me, just as it has done for the last
> few releases.
> 
> unicorn:~$ ps -ef | grep X
> greg10301007  0 May31 tty1 00:00:00 xinit 
> /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc :0 vt1 -keeptty -auth 
> /tmp/serverauth.C7PjJM0pDW
> greg10321030  1 May31 tty1 00:45:52 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg 
> -nolisten tcp :0 vt1 -keeptty -auth /tmp/serverauth.C7PjJM0pDW
> greg   549271160  0 19:46 pts/300:00:00 grep X
> unicorn:~$ grep -v ^# /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config 
> allowed_users=console
> 
> No "needs_root_rights" here, so I don't know why yours needs it.  Maybe
> it's got something to do with driver selection?  If I recall correctly
> from the days when this change was made, some cards that use legacy
> drivers may need special configuration.
> 

graphic driver is nvidia.
secureboot is activated with mok (debian default key).

what makes you think it's different with e.g. amdgpu?

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 04:32:38PM +, therealcyclist wrote:
> I tried the new Debian bookworm installer rc4 and i manually installed i3-wm.
> I started i3 from tty with startx command as user.
> to my surprise i found out that the xorg process is running as root.
> that can't be intentional, can it?
> 
> I have fixed the problem by adding the following line in 
> /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config 
> 
> needs_root_rights = no
> 
> After that xorg runs as user.

That's quite strange.  I have not installed bookworm, but I just upgraded
to it.  I use startx as well (but with fvwm instead of i3-wm), and I'm not
seeing this problem.  Xorg runs as me, just as it has done for the last
few releases.

unicorn:~$ ps -ef | grep X
greg10301007  0 May31 tty1 00:00:00 xinit 
/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc :0 vt1 -keeptty -auth 
/tmp/serverauth.C7PjJM0pDW
greg10321030  1 May31 tty1 00:45:52 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg 
-nolisten tcp :0 vt1 -keeptty -auth /tmp/serverauth.C7PjJM0pDW
greg   549271160  0 19:46 pts/300:00:00 grep X
unicorn:~$ grep -v ^# /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config 
allowed_users=console

No "needs_root_rights" here, so I don't know why yours needs it.  Maybe
it's got something to do with driver selection?  If I recall correctly
from the days when this change was made, some cards that use legacy
drivers may need special configuration.

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[gene heskett]

On 6/2/23 16:26, Stefan Monnier wrote:

Plain old red is fine. Its the hot red which veers off toward magenta that
is the problem child, that particular dye is almost fluorescent, it gets
your attention in a sea of the more commonly use red dye for
electrical stuff.


I'm pretty sure there are various ways to get that color, so if one of
the dyes is problematic, that doesn't necessarily carry over to other
cables using the "same" color, especially if produced decades later.


They have gotten better, the originals in 1975 had a life of 6 months. 
When they started using it for the outer jackets of sata cables, the 
first generation had a life of 2, maybe 3 years. I suspect the diff is 
whatever is between that bright outer jacket and the actual conductors 
coating inside the hot red jacket slowing the migration of the chemical 
failure. Everything I've built in the last 8 or so years, has black or 
tan cables with latches, zero problems.  I've rebuilt 2 years back and 
used new black cables to build a raid 10 for home.



The J.A.Pan Company first used it in their cb radios in the earlier 1970's
for the transmit button on the microphone and I spent the next 5 years
replacing them with Beldon coil cables, then switched jobs, moved 1000 miles
& never offered my services to another CB dealer, I was too busy keeping
a tv station on the air, spending the last 18+ years of my working life as
the CE at WDTV-5 in Weston/Clarksburg WV.  My electronic history goes back
to about my 8th birthday when I built a crystal radio from parts. So I grew
up with vacuum tubes, quit school in 1948 and went to work fixing the then
brand new things still called tv's.

You may not have heard about it, but I've lived it.


There's lots that I haven't heard about, but often "the Internet" has.
In this case my searches turn up strangely empty.


And because its gaudy, and guarantees a replacement market in the
future for more of their product, the Chinese will keep using it.


Are you sure that's actually the case?  I can't imagine that the
additional sales for replacing failing magenta sata cable would
represent anything more than tiny fraction the market.
And can you point to any kind of evidence/reports that
it affected sata cables?

[ Also, the fact that it's produced in China doesn't mean that the
   decision to cut corners would be made by "the Chinese".  ]


With the advent of the MBA diploma, you're 200% correct.  Fellow named 
Shakespear wrote, first we kill all the lawyers but he'd not tangled 
with any MBA's in his day...



 Stefan

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[Jhosue rui]

Uid de Xiaomi como el diablo a la cruz. No niego que el hardware sea bueno
y el precio atractivo, pero a cambio traen programas de rastreo para saber
hasta de que lado tienes la lengua y te manda tanta propaganda que te sale
por la orejas, casi pareciera como si no hubieras pagado por el teléfono y
tuvieras que hacerlo aguantando toneladas de propaganda, y ni siquiera trae
un reproductor de música decente, te lo tienes que comprar si quieres
escuchar música.

Bueno esa es mi experiencia con esos cacharros ...

El vie, 2 de jun. de 2023 11:59 a. m., Juan carlos Rebate <
nerus...@gmail.com> escribió:

> Los Xiaomi están muy bien de precio y buena calidad, Ami se me callo 20
> veces y ahí sigue, en cuanto al SO si eres algo avispado bajas el aosp
> bajas el kernel para el teléfono que tengas y lo compilas así te libras de
> google, y la app del banco la bajas de algún repositorio como apkmirror, o
> bien te bajas androidx86 y lo instalas en el pc y usas la app desde ahi
>
> El vie., 2 jun. 2023 14:08, JavierDebian 
> escribió:
>
>> El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió:
>> > Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).
>> >
>> > Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian (y
>> > soft/hard libre en general):
>> >
>> > De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con
>> > todos los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no
>> > obstante ser informático a medias.
>> >
>> > Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP"
>> (les
>> > interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy atenta y
>> > sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para pagar las
>> > cuentas :/
>> >
>> > La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre (con
>> > base en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que
>> encontré
>> > en la red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.
>> >
>> > Desde ya gracias
>> >
>> > Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras
>> > veces me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y
>> > retírenlo sin más los moderadores si es así por favor.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.
>>
>> No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están pasando
>> al "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de Prisma (Link).
>>
>> No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en el
>> país, salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.
>> Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.
>>
>> Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.
>>
>> Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.
>>
>> Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
>> Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung se
>> les parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.
>>
>> O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los
>> "jóvenes de la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo cambian
>> cada 2 años, "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".
>>
>> JAP
>>
>>

Re: A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/23 06:33, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:



On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 4:49 PM Bret Busby > wrote:


On 2/6/23 23:55, James H. H. Lampert wrote:



 > Luddites of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your
upgrade
 > treadmills

If, by upgrade treadmills, you mean the flatbed treadmills, that have a
belt that is turned by the human walking on it, rather than the
electric
ones with electric motors for lazy humans, the ones that have the belt


I'm afraid he meant the treadmill that used to be called "planned 
obsolescence". The thought that a perfectly satisfactory machine no 
longer suffices for you because it is "yesterday's model". Thereafter it 
will stop working with newer machines (or software) which are intended 
to be incompatible with it.

And what is the end in view?
Sell you a new machine.




Interesting.

Last year, I bought the computer described below, as a refurbished 
machine, and, it is far superior to the new computers that do not come 
with enough RAM to be worthwhile.


This computer, with 128GB RAM, I regard as far superior to an i9 
computer with 8GB RAM.


And, on this old computer, apart from (as part of its refurbishment), is 
the 500GB NVVME (?) SSD primary hard drive, the 6TB internal second HD, 
and, using some of the (about)6 USB ports, I have an external USB HDD 
(about 2TB), and a T5 and a T7 external USB SSD drive, with room for 
more; the T5 and T7 drives using the exFAT file system, with 
extraordinarily fast data transfer rates.


So, old computers like this one, are superior to new computers.

And, for years, when dialup computing was used, I had used for a 
mailserver, a used, low spec, HP server that I bought for 100AUD, that 
had an MMX CPU, and, was quite adequate to be a mailserver, running 
postfix and procmail, and, whatever version of Debian was on it, until 
dialup was superseded by "broadband", for which, the modems imposed 
DHCP, rather than static IP addresses, and I had to give up running my 
own mailserver, because it became too complicated, when I could no 
longer use static IP addresses.


And, this computer (not the ex-mailserver) cost about as much as a 
bottom of the range new computer.


The new computers are rubbish.

Refurbished computer profile (with 128GB RAM (that runs about 200 
windows of Firefox (I have one saved session, with 229 windows, and 
about 3200 tabs), while viewing movies (I also have about 10 movies open 
at present, in Celluloid and SMPlayer), although, at present, I have 
only about 127 Firefox windows open, with 1689 tabs):


"
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Dell product: Precision Tower 5810 v: N/A 
serial: 

Chassis: type: 7 serial: 
  Mobo: Dell model: 0K240Y v: A02 serial:  UEFI: 
Dell v: A34

date: 10/19/2020
CPU:
  Info: 14-core model: Intel Xeon E5-2660 v4 bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
arch: Broadwell rev: 1 cache:

L1: 896 KiB L2: 3.5 MiB L3: 35 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 1491 high: 2880 min/max: 1200/3200 cores: 1: 1198 
2: 2539 3: 1199 4: 1197
5: 2827 6: 1197 7: 1198 8: 1197 9: 1197 10: 1197 11: 1202 12: 1198 
13: 1357 14: 1201 15: 1199
16: 2880 17: 1197 18: 1197 19: 2727 20: 1197 21: 1198 22: 1304 23: 
1197 24: 1197 25: 2828

26: 1198 27: 1353 28: 1197 bogomips: 111740
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU116 [GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER] vendor: ASUSTeK 
driver: nvidia v: 525.105.17
pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16 ports: active: none off: HDMI-A-1 
empty: DP-1,DVI-D-1

bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:21c4
  Device-2: Sunplus Innovation AAPDQT-0622-W type: USB driver: 
snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo

bus-ID: 3-13:6 chip-ID: 1bcf:2cb4
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 compositor: marco v: 1.26.0 
driver: X: loaded: nvidia
unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa gpu: nvidia display-ID: :0 
screens: 1

  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 93
  Monitor-1: HDMI-0 res: 1920x1080 dpi: 94 diag: 598mm (23.5")
  OpenGL: renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 
NVIDIA 525.105.17

direct render: Yes
...
Info:
  Processes: 556 Uptime: 9d 12h 26m Memory: 125.72 GiB used: 99.99 GiB 
(79.5%) Init: systemd
  v: 249 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 11.3.0 alt: 11/12 Client: Unknown 
python3.10 client

  inxi: 3.3.13
"

Some computers, like this one, perform far better, than the cheap and 
nasty new computers (which cost far more, and, far too much), with the 
new computers being best described as rubbish, produced by increasingly 
malicious manufacturers (that make freedom of choice of operating 
systems, and, performance, impossible).


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: 10 year old machines are slow (was: A hypervisor for a headless server?)

[Bret Busby]

On 3/6/23 03:19, Stefan Monnier wrote:

The most recent general-purpose Intel CPU without VT-X is from 2012.

[...]

*everything* on processors that old is slow.


Actually, for many (most?) single-threaded applications, I wouldn't be
surprised if some 2010 CPUs end up within a factor 3 of the most badass
desktop you can find today.


 Stefan




Since the above message refers to "10 year old" computers, if a person 
searches the list archives, I had posted to this, and, other operating 
system lists, regarding a computer that I bought in 2013 (which is ten 
years ago, this year), which was so advanced, that only two non-MS 
operating systems had drivers for the CPU; it had an Intel i7 CPU, with 
32GB RAM, and, until it stopped working last year or this year, due to a 
grid electricity failure, which, I think, wrecked the power supply for 
the computer (an Acer Aspire "laptop"; - a V3-772G), that computer never 
gave me cause to think it slow.


Whoever posted the message to which the above message is a reply, is 
showing a lack of knowledge of computers; the "speed" of a computer, 
involves more components than simply the CPU - an i9 with 2GB of RAM, 
will probably not be as "fast" as in i3 with 32GB of RAM.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

problem with local DNS

[Maureen L Thomas]

I am using a Lonova all in one computer with the latest debian on it.  
Bullseye is working fine except for the warning I get as follows:  your 
current proxy settings do not allow local DNS req 
(network.proxy.socks_remote)dns).


I have the nordvpn installed and I wonder if that is part of the 
problem.  Or maybe not.  I do not want to get rid of the vpn if at all 
possible.  I appreciate your help.  Intel® Core™ i3-9100T CPU @ 3.10GHz 
× 4,  Mesa Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (CFL GT2).


Moe

Re: A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 4:49 PM Bret Busby  wrote:

> On 2/6/23 23:55, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
>
> 
>
> > Luddites of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your upgrade
> > treadmills
>
> If, by upgrade treadmills, you mean the flatbed treadmills, that have a
> belt that is turned by the human walking on it, rather than the electric
> ones with electric motors for lazy humans, the ones that have the belt


I'm afraid he meant the treadmill that used to be called "planned
obsolescence". The thought that a perfectly satisfactory machine no longer
suffices for you because it is "yesterday's model". Thereafter it will stop
working with newer machines (or software) which are intended to be
incompatible with it.
And what is the end in view?
Sell you a new machine.


> that is turned by the human walking on it, having a slight, and,
> adjustable upward grade, then, such treadmills should definitely not be
> abandoned.
>
> The human powered (rather than electric powered) treadmills are far more
> healthy, both directly for the human powering the treadmill, and, for
> the environment, especially, given that most electricity is generated
> either by burning things, and therefore, creating atmospheric pollution,
> and, poisoning most lifeforms, or, by nuclear meltdowns, causing
> radioactive poisoning, and, even worse toxic waste, than from burning
> things.
>
> So, human powered treadmills, that involve an upward grade, should not
> be abandoned, the abandonment of which treadmills, threatens life, for
> the sake of ever-increasing laziness.
>
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
>
>

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

Am Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 07:07:05PM +0200 schrieb Michel Verdier:
> Le 2 juin 2023 therealcyclist a écrit :
> 
> > I tried the new Debian bookworm installer rc4 and i manually installed 
> > i3-wm.
> > I started i3 from tty with startx command as user.
> > to my surprise i found out that the xorg process is running as root.
> > that can't be intentional, can it?
> 
> Maybe because some display managers want xorg as root
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg#Rootless_Xorg
> 

You linked to the Archlinux Wiki and I have installed i3-wm under archlinux and 
there X11 runs without root privileges by default.

I assumed that it is the same under Debian because Debian is known for having 
relatively safe default values.
It looks like i3 doesn't need x11 as root either.

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

Am Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 09:24:13PM +0200 schrieb Sven Joachim:
>
> That is rather strange.  The source of the wrapper program that decides
> whether Xorg needs root rights has not been touched for many years[1].
> 
> Cheers,
>Sven
> 
> 
> 1. 
> https://salsa.debian.org/xorg-team/xserver/xorg-server/-/commits/debian-unstable/hw/xfree86/xorg-wrapper.c
> 

Debian bookworm rc4 without gnome, just default system tools and after reboot i 
just run at tty:

sudo apt install i3-wm alacritty xinit xserver-xorg
echo "exec i3" > ~/.xinitrc
startx

and xorg running as root

Re: A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Bret Busby]

On 2/6/23 23:55, James H. H. Lampert wrote:



Luddites of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your upgrade 
treadmills


If, by upgrade treadmills, you mean the flatbed treadmills, that have a 
belt that is turned by the human walking on it, rather than the electric 
ones with electric motors for lazy humans, the ones that have the belt 
that is turned by the human walking on it, having a slight, and, 
adjustable upward grade, then, such treadmills should definitely not be 
abandoned.


The human powered (rather than electric powered) treadmills are far more 
healthy, both directly for the human powering the treadmill, and, for 
the environment, especially, given that most electricity is generated 
either by burning things, and therefore, creating atmospheric pollution, 
and, poisoning most lifeforms, or, by nuclear meltdowns, causing 
radioactive poisoning, and, even worse toxic waste, than from burning 
things.


So, human powered treadmills, that involve an upward grade, should not 
be abandoned, the abandonment of which treadmills, threatens life, for 
the sake of ever-increasing laziness.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: how to start login from X Window

[hlyg]

On 6/3/23 05:00, Konstantin Nebel wrote:

Hi,

it depends which display manager u use. check which one is installed. Since
you want lightweighted display manager i would try lightdm. But didnt use any
of those ever. :)

Cheers



Thank Nebel!

lightdm is what i need.

Re: Email sender refusing to send to unknown ca

[Tim Woodall]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, Jeffrey Walton wrote:


On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 2:20?PM Tim Woodall  wrote:


Anyone come across delivery failures where the client cert is signed by
an internal ca.


Are you sure it's not a self-signed end-entity certificate used in an
Opportunistic Encryption scheme?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunistic_encryption#E-mail


It's my mailserver, CA is mine. I should have said server cert, sorry.

Their server is refusing to deliver to me.

I can change this to use letsencrypt, although that's going to be a
pain. For now my server will not offer STARTTLS to them at all. If I get
another email will be interesting to see if it works.

Pretty much the only email I strictly want encrypted I will be less
secure with a letsencrypt cert. Possibly I can tell my server to serve
up a different cert depending on who connects but I don't know how to do
that and on a quick google I'm not sure it's possible.

I had imagined someone might refuse to accept email from an unrecognised
CA as a spamblocking measure, but to refuse to send it surprised me.
When nearly all email terminates at a third party verifying the cert
seems excessive unless, like in my case, when you do verify it you're
looking for a particular certificate and CA.

Always deliver direct to MX and always verify the cert would be a good
place to get to but I cannot see it happening. I guess we'd have "bad
cert blacklists" to try to combat spam too...

Re: how to start login from X Window

[Konstantin Nebel]

Am Freitag, 2. Juni 2023, 22:38:51 CEST schrieb hlyg:
> i use bullseye for i386 with twm. many years ago i used login from X
> Window, that is, graphics interface, not terminal interface.   how to
> start login in bullseye's X?

Hi,

it depends which display manager u use. check which one is installed. Since
you want lightweighted display manager i would try lightdm. But didnt use any
of those ever. :)

Cheers



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: 10 year old machines are slow (was: A hypervisor for a headless server?)

[Dan Ritter]

Stefan Monnier wrote: 
> > The most recent general-purpose Intel CPU without VT-X is from 2012.
> [...]
> > *everything* on processors that old is slow.
> 
> Actually, for many (most?) single-threaded applications, I wouldn't be
> surprised if some 2010 CPUs end up within a factor 3 of the most badass
> desktop you can find today.

In 2010, Intel released the i7-930. The i7-975 was released in June
of 2009. In March of 2010, the flagship for speed was the Xeon X7542,
but that's a server CPU.

In 2010, AMD was not competitive with Intel per-core, so we can
ignore them.

PassMark's single thread benchmark is currently won by the Intel
i9-13900ks - score 4796.

The i7-930 gets a 1271

The i7-975 gets a 1489

The Xeon X5698 -- not releases until 2011, but I can't find a
benchmark for the X7542 -- gets a 1922. It's also a server CPU,
not a desktop.

 4796 / 1489 = 3.22

I will admit that this is a synthetic benchmark. It is not my
synthetic benchmark, and a mistake I made earlier led me to
write up an admission that you were right -- until I realized
that I had been looking at the multicore benchmarks of all the
older CPUs, not the single thread.

3.22 is pretty close to 3x, though. It seems likely that if you
had a single-threaded task that didn't rely on RAM bandwidth or
disk latency or bandwidth, you would actually see just a 3x
difference by 2 years later in fairly mainstream CPUs - an
i5-2550, for example.

-dsr-

how to start login from X Window

[hlyg]

i use bullseye for i386 with twm. many years ago i used login from X 
Window, that is, graphics interface, not terminal interface.   how to 
start login in bullseye's X?

Re: Cable colors and urban legends (was: Error Messages)

[David Christensen]

On 6/2/23 11:33, Stefan Monnier wrote:

And, strange as it sounds, replace any "hot red" aka "magenta" sata cable
with some other color.  I am a CET and known to me since the 1970's, that
color of insulation dye will in time, convert the copper of the conductor
into a rust colored powder, and that is a poor conductor.


This is very hard to believe.  I'm willing to believe that there have
been insulation dyes that have proved problematic, but if you've
encountered those problems in the 70s I find it *really* odd that it
would still affect cables from this century (e.g. sata cables).

Can you point to any evidence?



I am in the habit of cutting the connector off of bad cables (power, 
audio, SATA, whatever), so that I will not re-use the cable by mistake.



5~10 years ago, I cut the end off of a bad red SATA cable.  To my 
surprise, the copper conductor was disintegrating as Gene describes. 
Unbelievable.  Somebody botched their chemical engineering.



But a more common failure mode is mismatched SATA speed ratings.  I have 
been using SATA since it came out and had a collection of mixed SATA I, 
II, and III equipment.  None of the red SATA cables were marked for 
speed.  This caused endless connectivity issues.



The solution was to remove all of the old cables and racks, and buy new 
cables and racks that are rated for 6 Gbps and readily identifiable. 
For both the chemical, identity, reliability reasons, I now buy black 
SATA cables with locking connectors:


https://www.cablematters.com/pc-187-156-3-pack-straight-60-gbps-sata-iii-cable.aspx

https://www.cablematters.com/pc-188-156-cable-matters-3-pack-90-degree-right-angle-60-gbps-sata-iii-cable-18-inches.aspx

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/drw150satbk

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/hsb220sat25b

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/s25slotr


David

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Felix Miata]

Stefan Monnier composed on 2023-06-02 16:09 (UTC-0400):

>> If rust colored dust falls from where copper used to be, you have your
>> evidence.

> Right.  But I don't have that, so I don't have my evidence.  Do you?

I didn't know I needed to save it at the time, so nothing physical.

> Can you point to such stories being reported somewhere?
> My web-searches all turn up empty.

I remember searching got hits at the time, but that was many many many moons 
ago.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Stefan Monnier]

> Plain old red is fine. Its the hot red which veers off toward magenta that
> is the problem child, that particular dye is almost fluorescent, it gets
> your attention in a sea of the more commonly use red dye for
> electrical stuff.

I'm pretty sure there are various ways to get that color, so if one of
the dyes is problematic, that doesn't necessarily carry over to other
cables using the "same" color, especially if produced decades later.

> The J.A.Pan Company first used it in their cb radios in the earlier 1970's
> for the transmit button on the microphone and I spent the next 5 years
> replacing them with Beldon coil cables, then switched jobs, moved 1000 miles
> & never offered my services to another CB dealer, I was too busy keeping
> a tv station on the air, spending the last 18+ years of my working life as
> the CE at WDTV-5 in Weston/Clarksburg WV.  My electronic history goes back
> to about my 8th birthday when I built a crystal radio from parts. So I grew
> up with vacuum tubes, quite school in 1948 and went to work fixing the then
> brand new things still called tv's.
>
> You may not have heard about it, but I've lived it.

There's lots that I haven't heard about, but often "the Internet" has.
In this case my searches turn up strangely empty.

> And because its gaudy, and guarantees a replacement market in the
> future for more of their product, the Chinese will keep using it.

Are you sure that's actually the case?  I can't imagine that the
additional sales for replacing failing magenta sata cable would
represent anything more than tiny fraction the market.
And can you point to any kind of evidence/reports that
it affected sata cables?

[ Also, the fact that it's produced in China doesn't mean that the
  decision to cut corners would be made by "the Chinese".  ]


Stefan

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Can you point to any evidence?
> You've never cut open a magenta cable that quit to see what's inside?

Nope.  Never had them fail on me either for that matter.

> If rust colored dust falls from where copper used to be, you have your
> evidence.

Right.  But I don't have that, so I don't have my evidence.  Do you?
Can you point to such stories being reported somewhere?
My web-searches all turn up empty.

> That said, there probably aren't a lot of computers that had
> them left in service. I think the manufacturers got it figured out
> before SATA rev 2.0 cables saturated the markets.

If the problem was known in the 70s, then presumably the manufacturers
got it figured out before sata rev 1.0 (let alone sata cable), no?


Stefan

Re: Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

You linked to the Archlinux Wiki and I have installed i3-wm under archlinux and 
there X11 runs without root privileges by default.

I assumed that it is the same under Debian because Debian is known for having 
relatively safe default values.
It looks like i3 doesn't need x11 as root either.

Re: Cable colors and urban legends (was: Error Messages)

[gene heskett]

On 6/2/23 15:01, James H. H. Lampert wrote:

On 6/2/23 11:33 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:


This is very hard to believe.  I'm willing to believe that there have
been insulation dyes that have proved problematic, but if you've
encountered those problems in the 70s I find it *really* odd that it
would still affect cables from this century (e.g. sata cables).


Yes, and red-insulated wire has been in common use for many decades, on 
everything from primary power wiring for buildings (when the "hot" wires 
for multiple circuits, or for both "hot" wires of a 240VAC circuit, are 
run together), to automotive wiring, to model train wiring, and I've 
never heard of red (or any other particular color) insulation (or cable 
jacketing, heat shrink, split-loom, or spiral-wrap) causing damage to 
conductors. More likely, it was a particular material, possibly 
containing a plasticizer that turned out to react with copper. And it's 
rather unlikely that any such material wouldn't be "deprecated with 
extreme prejudice" as soon as the problem was discovered.


Plain old red is fine. Its the hot red which veers off toward magenta 
that is the problem child, that particular dye is almost fluorescent, it 
gets your attention in a sea of the more commonly use red dye for 
electrical stuff.


The J.A.Pan Company first used it in their cb radios in the earlier 
1970's for the transmit button on the microphone and I spent the next 5 
years replacing them with Beldon coil cables, then switched jobs, moved 
1000 miles & never offered my services to another CB dealer, I was too 
busy keeping a tv station on the air, spending the last 18+ years of my 
working life as the CE at WDTV-5 in Weston/Clarksburg WV.  My electronic 
history goes back to about my 8th birthday when I built a crystal radio 
from parts. So I grew up with vacuum tubes, quite school in 1948 and 
went to work fixing the then brand new things still called tv's.


You may not have heard about it, but I've lived it. And because its 
gaudy, and guarantees a replacement market in the future for more of 
their product, the Chinese will keep using it.


And I'll repeat, I am a CET, something that probably less than 5% of the 
working EE's could pass that test. CET's are a bit rare, I've yet to 
meet another on the net.  And I've been looking since 1985 when I logged 
into delphi with a color computer running os-9 level 1.



--
JHHL

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

I remembered it badly. I thought I'd never been able to use kvm on
that old PC, but I've just been able to create a FreeBSD vm
on top of Ubuntu 14.04. Qemu and kvm work wonderfully. Probably some
virtualization features miss on the cpu,but...it works anyway.


On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:07 PM Stefan Monnier 
wrote:

> > Intel I5 cpu,
>
> Side note: this doesn't say much more than "an amd64 CPU produced by
> Intel in the last 13 years and whose release price was somewhere between
> $200 and $300" :-)
>
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_processors for
> more details.
>
>
> Stefan
>
>

-- 
Mario.

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[Sven Joachim]

On 2023-06-02 16:32 +, therealcyclist wrote:

> I tried the new Debian bookworm installer rc4 and i manually installed i3-wm.
> I started i3 from tty with startx command as user.
> to my surprise i found out that the xorg process is running as root.
> that can't be intentional, can it?

As long as there is a working kernel driver for all your graphics cards,
this is not intended.

> I have fixed the problem by adding the following line in 
> /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
>
> needs_root_rights = no
>
> After that xorg runs as user.

That is rather strange.  The source of the wrapper program that decides
whether Xorg needs root rights has not been touched for many years[1].

Cheers,
   Sven


1. 
https://salsa.debian.org/xorg-team/xserver/xorg-server/-/commits/debian-unstable/hw/xfree86/xorg-wrapper.c

Re: Cable colors and urban legends

[Felix Miata]

Stefan Monnier composed on 2023-06-02 14:33 (UTC-0400):

>> And, strange as it sounds, replace any "hot red" aka "magenta" sata cable
>> with some other color.  I am a CET and known to me since the 1970's, that
>> color of insulation dye will in time, convert the copper of the conductor
>> into a rust colored powder, and that is a poor conductor.

> This is very hard to believe.  I'm willing to believe that there have
> been insulation dyes that have proved problematic, but if you've
> encountered those problems in the 70s I find it *really* odd that it
> would still affect cables from this century (e.g. sata cables).

> Can you point to any evidence?

You've never cut open a magenta cable that quit to see what's inside? If rust
colored dust falls from where copper used to be, you have your evidence. That
said, there probably aren't a lot of computers that had them left in service. I
think the manufacturers got it figured out before SATA rev 2.0 cables saturated
the markets.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

10 year old machines are slow (was: A hypervisor for a headless server?)

[Stefan Monnier]

> The most recent general-purpose Intel CPU without VT-X is from 2012.
[...]
> *everything* on processors that old is slow.

Actually, for many (most?) single-threaded applications, I wouldn't be
surprised if some 2010 CPUs end up within a factor 3 of the most badass
desktop you can find today.


Stefan

Re: PTR record for mail server

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 12:46:04PM +0100, Andrew Wood wrote:
> Can I clarify my understanding of an issue with a Debian Postfix server
> please. We have a mail server which is a VPS running Debian hosted by OVH.
> Its hostname is of the form vps-xyz.vps.ovh.net the PTR for the IP resolves
> to that.

This is an extremely bad choice of name for a mail server because it
looks like a default configuration of one of hundreds of thousands
of OVH VPSes.

Also, OVH is a notoriously bad email neighbourhood so don't expect
to be able to reliably get mail out of there and into inboxes at
Google, Microsoft and Yahoo!. OVH has a big spam problem (so do
most of the large, cheap hosters).

> The the issue is our server sends mail for our own domains and we are
> getting mail rejected from some recipient servers with 550 PTR rejected:
> Please use a non-generic PTR (in reply to RCPT TO command.

It is fortunate at least that they give some reasoning. You are
probably going to find a bunch more that just reject with no stated
reason, or silently file in junk folder.

> My understanding is that as we are sending email from our own domain e.g
> "example.com" its complaining because the PTR is ovh.net not example.com?

No, there is no requirement for the PTR record to match the From:
address of the email. They just want it to not look like a generic
OVH VPS.

> As its not recommended to have more than one PTR for an IP is there anything
> we can do about this given that our server handles mail for a couple of
> domains?

Just pick a domain that's related to you and make sure it resolves
correctly both ways. It can send mail for multiple domains, that's
not the issue. Your issue is very likely that your hostname ends in
"ovh.net". Do also set up SPF, DKIM and DMARC. After all that you'll
probably still have some issues.

Try the "mailop" mailing list for advice on deliverability issues
but I warn you now: the first advice from 90% of respondents there
will be to stop sending email from OVH IP addresses.

https://www.mailop.org/

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Bug#910970: Info received (flameshot: does not work on debian buster under wayland)

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
this Bug report.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 Boyuan Yang 

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 910...@bugs.debian.org.

Please do not send mail to ow...@bugs.debian.org unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

-- 
910970: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=910970
Debian Bug Tracking System
Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems

Re: Email sender refusing to send to unknown ca

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 2:20 PM Tim Woodall  wrote:
>
> Anyone come across delivery failures where the client cert is signed by
> an internal ca.

Are you sure it's not a self-signed end-entity certificate used in an
Opportunistic Encryption scheme?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunistic_encryption#E-mail

> Jun  2 03:45:27 imap202 sm-mta[14736]: STARTTLS=server, error: accept 
> failed=-1, reason=tlsv1 alert unknown ca, SSL_error=1, errno=0, retry=-1, 
> relay=mta140.fwdto.net [195.68.228.140]
> Jun  2 03:45:27 imap202 sm-mta[14736]: 3523jQ45014736: mta140.fwdto.net 
> [195.68.228.140] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA-v4
>
> I've not seen this before. It was persistent - tried 75 times over 5
> hours before it gave up.
>
> I don't have an easy way to get an email resent from this host. I've
> hopefully disabled STARTTLS for it now...

The TLS RFC's say the certificate chain must be sent when needed.
Including the Root CA is optional.

Usually a relying party needs to have the Root CA on-hand before using
it. However, sending the Root CA has use cases; for example, in a
Trust-on-First-Use (TOFU) scheme.

You may be able to obtain the Root CA with openssl's s_client. I was
not able to get them to work, however. They just hung. Maybe you can
get one of them to work.

$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls imap -connect mta140.fwdto.net:139
^C
$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls pop3 -connect mta140.fwdto.net:110
^C
$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls pop3 -connect mta140.fwdto.net:993
^C
$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls smtp -connect mta140.fwdto.net:587
^C
$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls smtp -connect mta140.fwdto.net:465
^C
$ openssl s_client -showcerts -starttls smtp -connect mta140.fwdto.net:25
^C

Jeff

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Intel I5 cpu,

Side note: this doesn't say much more than "an amd64 CPU produced by
Intel in the last 13 years and whose release price was somewhere between
$200 and $300" :-)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_processors for
more details.


Stefan

Re: Cable colors and urban legends (was: Error Messages)

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 6/2/23 11:33 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:


This is very hard to believe.  I'm willing to believe that there have
been insulation dyes that have proved problematic, but if you've
encountered those problems in the 70s I find it *really* odd that it
would still affect cables from this century (e.g. sata cables).


Yes, and red-insulated wire has been in common use for many decades, on 
everything from primary power wiring for buildings (when the "hot" wires 
for multiple circuits, or for both "hot" wires of a 240VAC circuit, are 
run together), to automotive wiring, to model train wiring, and I've 
never heard of red (or any other particular color) insulation (or cable 
jacketing, heat shrink, split-loom, or spiral-wrap) causing damage to 
conductors. More likely, it was a particular material, possibly 
containing a plasticizer that turned out to react with copper. And it's 
rather unlikely that any such material wouldn't be "deprecated with 
extreme prejudice" as soon as the problem was discovered.


--
JHHL

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Using qemu is out of discussion,because it is very slow.
> But as I said, bhyve works better than qemu alone.

Hmm... I'd expect qemu to be able to use KVM on all those machines where
Bhyve can be used.  Are you saying that you have a machine where Bhyve
works well but KVM doesn't work at all, or did I misunderstand?

[ I have no doubt that there are situations where Bhyve works better
  than Qemu (with or without KVM), that is not my question.  ]


Stefan

Cable colors and urban legends (was: Error Messages)

[Stefan Monnier]

> And, strange as it sounds, replace any "hot red" aka "magenta" sata cable
> with some other color.  I am a CET and known to me since the 1970's, that
> color of insulation dye will in time, convert the copper of the conductor
> into a rust colored powder, and that is a poor conductor.

This is very hard to believe.  I'm willing to believe that there have
been insulation dyes that have proved problematic, but if you've
encountered those problems in the 70s I find it *really* odd that it
would still affect cables from this century (e.g. sata cables).

Can you point to any evidence?


Stefan

Re: Error Messages

[gene heskett]

On 6/2/23 09:09, gene heskett wrote:

On 6/2/23 06:27, David wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 at 18:43, Mick Ab  
wrote:



Recently, Hardware error messages such as the following have
appeared every few weeks :-


Hi, given that you say these sympoms appear and disappear, the first
and easy thing
I would try, is to re-seat (ie disconnect and reconnect) every SATA 
connector.

Particularly device ata5 and whatever device is backing dm-0.

.
And, strange as it sounds, replace any "hot red" aka "magenta" sata 
cable with some other color.  I am a CET and known to me since the 
1970's, that color of insulation dye will in time, convert the copper of 
the conductor into a rust colored powder, and that is a poor conductor. 
Its cheap, and it may not fix the problem, but its first by a large 
margin in a long list of likely culprits.


Test by opening a terminal and putting a tail -fn50 /var/log/syslog, get 
where you can see the screen, and the opened computer and touch/move 
slightly, the middle of all sata cables with a lead pencil, move it half 
an inch or so, if the log blows up with errors, that cable is burnt 
toast, replace it.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Email sender refusing to send to unknown ca

[Tim Woodall]

Hi,

Anyone come across delivery failures where the client cert is signed by
an internal ca.

Jun  2 03:45:27 imap202 sm-mta[14736]: STARTTLS=server, error: accept 
failed=-1, reason=tlsv1 alert unknown ca, SSL_error=1, errno=0, retry=-1, 
relay=mta140.fwdto.net [195.68.228.140]
Jun  2 03:45:27 imap202 sm-mta[14736]: 3523jQ45014736: mta140.fwdto.net 
[195.68.228.140] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA-v4

I've not seen this before. It was persistent - tried 75 times over 5
hours before it gave up.

I don't have an easy way to get an email resent from this host. I've
hopefully disabled STARTTLS for it now...

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Tim Woodall]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, Victor Sudakov wrote:



Now I see that a supported minimal headless configuration probably
does not exist at all.



Define supported.

You can boot a xen dom 0 with almost nothing installed other than xen
and the essential set and some sysvinit stuff.

I'd bet systemd would pull in more. And you'll have problems creating
networks to your guests without some iptools stuff.

If you really want a minimal system like this, start with a bootable xen
dom 0, backup, then remove stuff, reboot, backup until it won't boot.

Just looked, my dom0 is using around 1GB of disk and that's without
trying to keep it small. 300M of that is kernel modules.

My dom0 does very little other than host the guests. It's accessible
over ssh or ipmi (no keyboard or screen)

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

 - if bhyve fits your needs, why not run FreeBSD and bhyve?

I use Linux (+ qemu and kvm) and FreeBSD (with bhyve) depending what OS
between these allows me to perform a task faster and better.


- Look at Xen history, you'll see that it started in the mid 2000s.

I like Xen,I've used it for several months,but then I stopped using it
because on Linux I prefer qemu and kvm and on FreeBSD no one is interested
in maintaining Xen anymore. Everyone says that it is superated.


- And then, why not vmm, openBSD's virtual machines ?

I tried it,but I prefer bhyve. It has more functions and above all,the
passthru of my graphic card works on a Linux vm. vmm does not support it.


- But I think xen will run on some older hardware that kvm doesn't.

I think that bhyve is better than xen. So on FreeBSD I use bhyve and on
linux I use qemu+kvm,just because I have a recent hardware. On the old PC I
have installed FreeBSD and I use bhyve.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 6:54 PM Tim Woodall  wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, Michael Stone wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:09:36AM +0200, Paul Leiber wrote:
> >> +1 for Xen, AFAIK the standard apt installation doesn't include any
> >> management GUI.
> >>
> >> This is the howto which helped me getting started:
> >>
> >> https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Beginners_Guide
> >
> > I don't recommend xen for new projects. It has more pieces and tends to
> be
> > more fragile than qemu+kvm, for no real benefits these days. (IMO)
> >
> >
>
> I'm heavily invested in xen but I'd second this. One of my projects for
> this year is to move to kvm.
>
> But I think xen will run on some older hardware that kvm doesn't
> support.
>
>
>

-- 
Mario.

Re: X11 should not run as root or?

[Michel Verdier]

Le 2 juin 2023 therealcyclist a écrit :

> I tried the new Debian bookworm installer rc4 and i manually installed i3-wm.
> I started i3 from tty with startx command as user.
> to my surprise i found out that the xorg process is running as root.
> that can't be intentional, can it?

Maybe because some display managers want xorg as root
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xorg#Rootless_Xorg

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Tim Woodall]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, Michael Stone wrote:


On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:09:36AM +0200, Paul Leiber wrote:
+1 for Xen, AFAIK the standard apt installation doesn't include any 
management GUI.


This is the howto which helped me getting started:

https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Beginners_Guide


I don't recommend xen for new projects. It has more pieces and tends to be 
more fragile than qemu+kvm, for no real benefits these days. (IMO)





I'm heavily invested in xen but I'd second this. One of my projects for
this year is to move to kvm.

But I think xen will run on some older hardware that kvm doesn't
support.

Re: linphone and address books

[Dan Ritter]

Mario Marietto wrote: 
> I forgot to specify that I don't like a telephone so much like I had 20
> years ago. I mean,I would like to see a VOIP phone with the form factor of
> a smartphone. Sorry if I haven't been very clear.


In the sense of having a wireless handset to carry around the
house or office? They exist. DECT is the usual standard; there
are DECT-SIP gateways. Yealink makes several of them.

In the sense of running a VOIP client on a smartphone? That
exists too, although the battery life tends to be terrible.

-dsr-

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[zithro]

On 02 Jun 2023 17:34, Mario Marietto wrote:

Excuse me,but there is something within your argumentation that I don't
like and I want to express what it is. Let's take Linux as an example of
what I want to say. Linux is well known to be an OS that can be installed
on the old machines,helping the people that can't buy a new computer to
surf the net and to do the basic things that they couldn't do using a more
complete and modern PC built with new hardware components. And this is a
linux quality that everyone loves and one of the reasons why Linux is
growing faster on the market.  I think that everyone likes this,right ?
So,why the same logic can't be applied to those software tools that go in
the same direction,to those tools that help the users to have those
functions that those old computers cannot give to them anymore ? Here it
seems there is a contradiction. You may argue that developing for a small
number of old computers isn't worth trying. But,first of all,I think that
there are a LOT of old PCs in the world,since poor people aren't only a
niche. We could discuss,anyway, how to reach the right amount of money to
pay the developers. I'm thinking of opening a crowdfunding campaign for
example. Or any other method to have the money that I can't imagine now. To
do a project like this is socially accepted and helps to work on the
perception of the users that computer science is something that they can
use to develop their life in a good way. Maybe by helping one of those poor
children,we are contributing to educate someone that in the future will
make great things for humanity. I think that using the old relation that
there is between costs and benefits is not applicable in every kind of
situation. There are already a lot of people who work on projects that they
like,but that they have a low social impact. Why not to work on a project
that aims to extend the functions of an old PC. And what's better than
using two operating systems on a single old pc? My old pc has 2 measly
cpu's, I used one for the host and the other for linux emulated with bhyve
and the performance was decent. Is there something that's more useful and
generous than this kind of project ?



?

Look at Xen history, you'll see that it started mid 2000s.
And then, why not vmm, openBSD's virtual machines ?

X11 should not run as root or?

[therealcyclist]

I tried the new Debian bookworm installer rc4 and i manually installed i3-wm.
I started i3 from tty with startx command as user.
to my surprise i found out that the xorg process is running as root.
that can't be intentional, can it?

I have fixed the problem by adding the following line in 
/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config 

needs_root_rights = no

After that xorg runs as user.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Dan Ritter]

Mario Marietto wrote: 
> I mean. I cant use qemu on that I5 cpu because is slow without kvm. Kvm
> does not work on that cpu because it is needs some extensions from the cpu
> that there arent. Bhyve is the only alternative because it is a mix between
> qemu and kvm in terms of speed. So. My question is : how much old cpu there
> are that cant run kvm ? I dont think mine is the only one. May be a good
> idea is to port bhyve on linux to cover the little needs of the users who
> wants a fast hyp on the old cpus. and not,qemu in these cpus is very slow.
> is not the solution. I really think there isnt any better alternative than
> qemu in these situations. The only one is bhyve
>  if someone wants to try the scenarios that im talking about,they will
> understand for sure. and maybe they want to start the porting of bhyve on
> linux.


The most recent general-purpose Intel CPU without VT-X is from
2012.

The most recent general-purpose AMD CPU without SVM (AMD-V) are
some very low end Sempron APUs and the first generation of
Opteron. All the Zen chips support it, modulo weird early
motherboard issues.

*everything* on processors that old is slow. It's not going to
be on anyone's list to improve performance of unassisted QEMU or
bhyve on very old CPUs.

That said, it is certainly possible to improve performance of
QEMU on non-virtualized hardware, by passing the appropriate
flags for removing hardware that you are not using and selecting
the best-performing drivers.

In the end, the best choices are:

- don't run virtualized. Use a chroot or a container.

- acquire newer hardware. Used laptops with 8GB of RAM and an i5
CPU are going for $100 near me -- less if you buy in quantity.
It is quite likely that you can find better hardware for your
needs for free by posting an ad in your local Craigslist or
equivalent.

- if bhyve fits your needs, why not run FreeBSD and bhyve?

-dsr-

Re: sed ignorer une occurence

[Marc Chantreux]

salut,

Le Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 10:46:00AM +, benoit a écrit :
> Je voudrais reformater du texte en colonne, qui a été justifié avec des 
> retours
> à la  ligne (\n) et des "-" de coupure de mot
> ex:
> Je voudrais reformater du texte en colonne, qui a été just- «---
> ifié avec des retours à la  ligne (\n) et est - de coupure de
>  mot.
> 
> % sed -rz '{s/-\n//g;s/\n//g}' format.txt

<<\% sed -rz 's/-\n//g; s/([^.\n])\n/\1/g' | tr -s ' ' | fmt -w72

Je suis pas sur d'avoir compris le pb.

Je voudrais reformater du texte en colonne,
qui a étéjust-
ifié avec des retours à la ligne (\n)et
est - de coupure de mot.

%

Si la commande correspond bien à ton besoin, tu peux directement
l'utiliser dans vi grace à un range.

si tu as fais une selection visuelle, tappes

!sed -rz 's/-\n//g; s/([^.\n])\n/\1/g' | tr -s ' ' | fmt -w72

les prochains usages de ! rappellent le dernier filtre, tu n'auras
plus qu'a taper !! au lieu de ! et rappeler la commande.

Évidement ça marche avec tous les ranges :)

astuce: mettre le filtre dans un fichier à part pour en faciliter la
maintenance:

:sp monfiltre
:!chmod a+x %

et ensuite tu peux écrire ton filtre en espaçant un peu et en commentant

#!/bin/sh
# note1: je ne vire le retour à la ligne que si il est précédé
#d'autre chose qu'un espace
sed -rz '
s/-\n//g
s/([^.\n])\n/\1/g # cf. note1
' |
tr -s ' ' |
fmt -w72

et finalement

filtrer avec !./monfiltre

je fais concis pour aller vite. n'hésite pas à me demander de plus
amples explications si cette piste de plait.

cordialement,
marc

Re: linphone and address books

[Tim Woodall]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, Mario Marietto wrote:


I forgot to specify that I don't like a telephone so much like I had 20
years ago. I mean,I would like to see a VOIP phone with the form factor of
a smartphone. Sorry if I haven't been very clear.



I use linphone on android. But modern androids are super annoying and
you have to jump through hoops to stop it sleeping and disconnecting
wifi/mobile data and vpn.

But an older model phone on wifi with no sim would seem to do what you
want. I have an Alcatel 1 setup like this that works well and lasts for
about a day on battery with the sleepyness disabled.

I use connectbot on a more modern phone to disable sleep - but that
doesn't lock the screen which is super annoying - lock the screen and I
cannot receive viop calls.

It's lineage so theoretically I can fix but that's not in my forseeable
future!

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[Juan carlos Rebate]

Los Xiaomi están muy bien de precio y buena calidad, Ami se me callo 20
veces y ahí sigue, en cuanto al SO si eres algo avispado bajas el aosp
bajas el kernel para el teléfono que tengas y lo compilas así te libras de
google, y la app del banco la bajas de algún repositorio como apkmirror, o
bien te bajas androidx86 y lo instalas en el pc y usas la app desde ahi

El vie., 2 jun. 2023 14:08, JavierDebian 
escribió:

> El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió:
> > Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).
> >
> > Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian (y
> > soft/hard libre en general):
> >
> > De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con
> > todos los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no
> > obstante ser informático a medias.
> >
> > Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP" (les
> > interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy atenta y
> > sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para pagar las
> > cuentas :/
> >
> > La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre (con
> > base en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que encontré
> > en la red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.
> >
> > Desde ya gracias
> >
> > Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras
> > veces me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y
> > retírenlo sin más los moderadores si es así por favor.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.
>
> No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están pasando
> al "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de Prisma (Link).
>
> No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en el
> país, salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.
> Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.
>
> Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.
>
> Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.
>
> Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
> Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung se
> les parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.
>
> O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los
> "jóvenes de la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo cambian
> cada 2 años, "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".
>
> JAP
>
>

A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 6/2/23 8:34 AM, Mario Marietto wrote:

You may argue that developing for a small number of old computers
isn't worth trying. But,first of all,I think that there are a LOT of
old PCs in the world,since poor people aren't only a niche.


Nor are they the only ones using antiquated hardware, or expecting new 
hardware to remain in service until it physically deteriorates to the 
point of unreliability.


Some of us are Luddites, and damn proud of it. Earlier this year, I 
finished a months-long project of obtaining a notebook computer old 
enough to be viable as a DOSbook (IBM PC-DOS 2000, with no WinDoze 
whatsoever), and configuring it as such, precisely so that I would once 
again have backup hardware, and mobile capability, for my DOS 
applications. As a replacement for my dying "bionic desk lamp" iMac, I 
eschewed both WinDoze and Mac, in favor of a System76 Meerkat, precisely 
because a state-of-the-art Linux system would presumably have a nice 
long lifespan.


I don't trade in my automobiles for new models; I keep them until it's 
time to have them hauled off to their final rusting places. And I spend 
my Saturdays docenting at the International Printing Museum, where I 
frequently operate presses and linecasting equipment that is nearly as 
old, or older, than I am, some of which was already decades old before I 
was born.


Luddites of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your upgrade 
treadmills, and Linux and DOS are your friends!


--
JHHL

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

Excuse me,but there is something within your argumentation that I don't
like and I want to express what it is. Let's take Linux as an example of
what I want to say. Linux is well known to be an OS that can be installed
on the old machines,helping the people that can't buy a new computer to
surf the net and to do the basic things that they couldn't do using a more
complete and modern PC built with new hardware components. And this is a
linux quality that everyone loves and one of the reasons why Linux is
growing faster on the market.  I think that everyone likes this,right ?
So,why the same logic can't be applied to those software tools that go in
the same direction,to those tools that help the users to have those
functions that those old computers cannot give to them anymore ? Here it
seems there is a contradiction. You may argue that developing for a small
number of old computers isn't worth trying. But,first of all,I think that
there are a LOT of old PCs in the world,since poor people aren't only a
niche. We could discuss,anyway, how to reach the right amount of money to
pay the developers. I'm thinking of opening a crowdfunding campaign for
example. Or any other method to have the money that I can't imagine now. To
do a project like this is socially accepted and helps to work on the
perception of the users that computer science is something that they can
use to develop their life in a good way. Maybe by helping one of those poor
children,we are contributing to educate someone that in the future will
make great things for humanity. I think that using the old relation that
there is between costs and benefits is not applicable in every kind of
situation. There are already a lot of people who work on projects that they
like,but that they have a low social impact. Why not to work on a project
that aims to extend the functions of an old PC. And what's better than
using two operating systems on a single old pc? My old pc has 2 measly
cpu's, I used one for the host and the other for linux emulated with bhyve
and the performance was decent. Is there something that's more useful and
generous than this kind of project ?

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[zithro]

On 02 Jun 2023 14:31, Michael Stone wrote:
I don't recommend xen for new projects. It has more pieces and tends to 
be more fragile than qemu+kvm, for no real benefits these days. (IMO)


Define "more pieces" and "more fragile" ?
It has a really low TCB and still used by amazon for their cloud.

I would recommend Xen.
It's better security-wise than KVM, is ultra stable, and easy to use.
I run Linuxes, BSDs and Windows as domUs (PCI passthrough, etc).
Plus it doesn't pull hundreds of dependencies.
You don't even need qemu if running fully virtualized guests (PV/PVH).

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[Daniel]

Muchísimas gracias Esteban, Camaleón, Javier, Juan Pablo y Sergio. 
Seguramente termine comprando/consiguiendo un Motorola smart un poco 
descartado por viejito para el banco y mantendré el actual (Nokia "a 
botonera") como principal. Pelearme con el banco y la tarjeta de 
coordenadas o cambiar ya lo intenté y no...


Muchas gracias a todos por los consejos técnicos que bienvenidos son, 
especialmente porque implican un panorama de experiencia que uno solo no 
puede lograr fácil, pero MÁS las gracias por leer sentires similares, 
por "compartir pesares" diría mi vieja. Esto de las tecnologías y la 
vida ya es una guerra evidentemente, de símbolos y naturalización, de 
poder e información y en toda guerra es buenísimo no sentirse solo. 
Gracias y abrazo a todos.


No terminó ni se perdió la guerra todavía :)


El 2/6/23 a las 10:11, sergiogo...@tostado.com.ar escribió:


El 2023-06-02 09:07, JavierDebian escribió:


El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió:

Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).

Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian 
(y soft/hard libre en general):


De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con 
todos los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no 
obstante ser informático a medias.


Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP" 
(les interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy 
atenta y sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para 
pagar las cuentas :/


La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre 
(con base en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que 
encontré en la red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.


Desde ya gracias

Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras 
veces me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y 
retírenlo sin más los moderadores si es así por favor.





Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.

No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están 
pasando al "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de 
Prisma (Link).


No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en 
el país, salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.

Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.

Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.

Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.

Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung 
se les parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.


O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los 
"jóvenes de la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo 
cambian cada 2 años, "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".


JAP

Además de lo que comenta JAP, tampoco sirve una "custom rom" para 
android, porque también esto es verificado por las apps y no te 
permite usarlas.


Saludos.


Sergio

Re: Error Messages

[piorunz]

On 02/06/2023 13:36, Charles Curley wrote:

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 12:01:10 +0100
Mick Ab  wrote:


Ram :-

I don't know the make of the Ram - someone built the PC for me.

16GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM  (2 x 8GB sticks, I understand


You may be able to get the make of the RAM (and more) with:

dmidecode | less

then search ('/') on Memory Device (case sensitive).


Inxi does it too:

sudo inxi --memory-modules -xx -B

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 03:24:13PM +0200, Mario Marietto wrote:

I mean. I cant use qemu on that I5 cpu because is slow without kvm. Kvm does
not work on that cpu because it is needs some extensions from the cpu that
there arent. Bhyve is the only alternative because it is a mix between qemu and
kvm in terms of speed. So. My question is : how much old cpu there are that
cant run kvm ? I dont think mine is the only one. May be a good idea is to port
bhyve on linux to cover the little needs of the users who wants a fast hyp on
the old cpus. and not,qemu in these cpus is very slow. is not the solution. I
really think there isnt any better alternative than qemu in these situations.
The only one is bhyve
 if someone wants to try the scenarios that im talking about,they will
understand for sure. and maybe they want to start the porting of bhyve on
linux.


Realistic answer: if something can't be supported by kvm it's probably 
old enough that upgrading it makes more sense than investing developer 
resources on that niche case. 10 year old machines that do support kvm 
are basically free these days.


Other than that, I'm not going to argue the basically hypothetical case 
of "machines that can use bhyve hardware virtualization but not kvm 
hardware virtualization" because 1) there probably aren't many and 2) 
without details of what exactly is the problem with your particular 
machine I can't provide a sensible response. (There's not really much 
difference between kvm and bhyve requirements, so I'd guess something 
like a bios bug is causing issues.) Again, this just isn't a general 
problem and certainly not something worth a lot of resource expenditure.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

ok. Thank you very much for the explanations.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 3:15 PM Michael Stone  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 03:01:04PM +0200, Mario Marietto wrote:
> >Using qemu is out of discussion,because it is very slow. But as I
> said,bhyve
> >works better than qemu alone.
>
> kvm literally uses qemu as its user space, so it's very much not out of
> the discussion. If you can't use the kvm kernel extensions for
> virtualization, then running under qemu gets you the same userspace
> experience with a performance penalty. bhyve has its own requirements
> for what cpu extensions must be present, and AFAIK can't fall back to a
> non-accelerated mode if they are not, regardless of performance.
> Sometimes you might want VMs to run, even more slowly, than to not run
> at all.
>
> I get that there's some machine that you have that can't run kvm. I have
> no idea why without access to the machine. But that's not a general
> problem, that's a problem with some specific piece of hardware. It's not
> like kvm has exotic requirements--I'm running on some hardware that's
> more than a decade old.
>


-- 
Mario.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Dan Ritter]

Victor Sudakov wrote: 
> I'm currently going to migrate some FreeBSD VMs from bhyve to a linux
> host. I hope KVM will have no problem with their raw disk images. 


Most raw images are supported; if there's something odd going
on, `qemu-img convert` supports:

blkdebug blklogwrites blkverify bochs cloop compress copy-on-read dmg
file ftp ftps gluster host_cdrom host_device http https iscsi iser luks
nbd nfs null-aio null-co nvme qcow qcow2 qed quorum raw rbd replication
ssh throttle vdi vhdx vmdk vpc vvfat

-dsr-

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

I mean. I cant use qemu on that I5 cpu because is slow without kvm. Kvm
does not work on that cpu because it is needs some extensions from the cpu
that there arent. Bhyve is the only alternative because it is a mix between
qemu and kvm in terms of speed. So. My question is : how much old cpu there
are that cant run kvm ? I dont think mine is the only one. May be a good
idea is to port bhyve on linux to cover the little needs of the users who
wants a fast hyp on the old cpus. and not,qemu in these cpus is very slow.
is not the solution. I really think there isnt any better alternative than
qemu in these situations. The only one is bhyve
 if someone wants to try the scenarios that im talking about,they will
understand for sure. and maybe they want to start the porting of bhyve on
linux.

Il ven 2 giu 2023, 15:01 Michael Stone  ha scritto:

> On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:41:44AM +, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> >Interestingly, libvirt claims to support bhyve, I just never felt a
> >need for such sophisticated tools to run just several VMs.
>
> Yes, it sounds like you should just ignore libvirt entirely and just
> install qemu-system-x86 (and not qemu-system-gui). That's a minimal
> system with no gui, you just run qemu from the command line to start
> VMs. If you run with --enable-kvm or --machine accel=kvm, then you're
> using kvm (assuming the kernel module is loaded).
>
> That said, there's a huge convenience factor for libvirt. You may end up
> with libraries you'll never use on the server, but so what? You can
> install virt-manager on a client system and manage with a gui that uses
> ssh in the background, or use virsh on the server. If you find yourself
> needing to do something infrequently, it's much easier to discover it in
> the virt-manager gui than it is to dig through docs on how to do it from
> the qemu command line. (This is, of course, the usual tradeoff between
> text and graphical interfaces.) It's also easier to use
> standard/documented solutions for startup, config, storage, etc, than it
> is to remember what bespoke solution you came up with several years ago
> when something breaks, even if all the abstraction layers of libvirt are
> "less efficient".
>
>

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 03:01:04PM +0200, Mario Marietto wrote:

Using qemu is out of discussion,because it is very slow. But as I said,bhyve
works better than qemu alone.


kvm literally uses qemu as its user space, so it's very much not out of 
the discussion. If you can't use the kvm kernel extensions for 
virtualization, then running under qemu gets you the same userspace 
experience with a performance penalty. bhyve has its own requirements 
for what cpu extensions must be present, and AFAIK can't fall back to a 
non-accelerated mode if they are not, regardless of performance. 
Sometimes you might want VMs to run, even more slowly, than to not run 
at all.


I get that there's some machine that you have that can't run kvm. I have 
no idea why without access to the machine. But that's not a general 
problem, that's a problem with some specific piece of hardware. It's not 
like kvm has exotic requirements--I'm running on some hardware that's

more than a decade old.

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[sergiogomez]

El 2023-06-02 09:07, JavierDebian escribió:

> El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió: 
> 
>> Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).
>> 
>> Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian (y 
>> soft/hard libre en general):
>> 
>> De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con todos 
>> los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no obstante ser 
>> informático a medias.
>> 
>> Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP" (les 
>> interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy atenta y 
>> sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para pagar las cuentas :/
>> 
>> La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre (con base 
>> en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que encontré en la 
>> red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.
>> 
>> Desde ya gracias
>> 
>> Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras veces 
>> me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y retírenlo sin 
>> más los moderadores si es así por favor.
> 
> Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.
> 
> No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están pasando al 
> "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de Prisma (Link).
> 
> No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en el país, 
> salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.
> Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.
> 
> Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.
> 
> Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.
> 
> Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
> Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung se les 
> parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.
> 
> O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los "jóvenes de 
> la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo cambian cada 2 años, 
> "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".
> 
> JAP

Además de lo que comenta JAP, tampoco sirve una "custom rom" para
android, porque también esto es verificado por las apps y no te permite
usarlas. 

Saludos. 

Sergio

Re: Error Messages

[gene heskett]

On 6/2/23 06:27, David wrote:

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 at 18:43, Mick Ab  wrote:


Recently, Hardware error messages such as the following have
appeared every few weeks :-


Hi, given that you say these sympoms appear and disappear, the first
and easy thing
I would try, is to re-seat (ie disconnect and reconnect) every SATA connector.
Particularly device ata5 and whatever device is backing dm-0.

.
And, strange as it sounds, replace any "hot red" aka "magenta" sata 
cable with some other color.  I am a CET and known to me since the 
1970's, that color of insulation dye will in time, convert the copper of 
the conductor into a rust colored powder, and that is a poor conductor. 
Its cheap, and it may not fix the problem, but its first by a large 
margin in a long list of likely culprits.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[Juan Pablo]

Soy también de la provincia de Buenos Aires y tengo 68 años. Uso siempre
Motorola (no el mejor) con Android y en mis años de banco desde el celular,
jamás tuve un problema y pago todo desde ahí. Incluyendo Mercado Libre,
DirecTV
Saludos
Juan Pablo

El vie., 2 jun. 2023 09:08, JavierDebian 
escribió:

> El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió:
> > Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).
> >
> > Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian (y
> > soft/hard libre en general):
> >
> > De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con
> > todos los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no
> > obstante ser informático a medias.
> >
> > Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP" (les
> > interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy atenta y
> > sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para pagar las
> > cuentas :/
> >
> > La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre (con
> > base en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que encontré
> > en la red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.
> >
> > Desde ya gracias
> >
> > Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras
> > veces me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y
> > retírenlo sin más los moderadores si es así por favor.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.
>
> No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están pasando
> al "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de Prisma (Link).
>
> No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en el
> país, salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.
> Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.
>
> Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.
>
> Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.
>
> Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
> Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung se
> les parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.
>
> O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los
> "jóvenes de la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo cambian
> cada 2 años, "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".
>
> JAP
>
>

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

Using qemu is out of discussion,because it is very slow. But as I
said,bhyve works better than qemu alone.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 2:44 PM Michael Stone  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:21:45AM +0200, Mario Marietto wrote:
> >wait wait. for sure the option should be enabled on the bios,but bhyve
> works in
> >a different way than kvm,so it works even if my cpu does not have all the
> virt.
> >parameters respected. Infact kvm does not work on that cpu. But how many
> cpus
> >there are like mine ? Does Linux feel to cover the gap of an alternative
> to
> >qemu and kvm ? not sure about xen as an alternative.
>
> kvm is literally the hardware acceleration piece. If your CPU doesn't
> support that, use qemu without kvm and you get exactly the same
> experience (just a bit slower). So "linux" "feels" no need to cover the
> gap, because there isn't one.
>
>

-- 
Mario.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:41:44AM +, Victor Sudakov wrote:

Interestingly, libvirt claims to support bhyve, I just never felt a
need for such sophisticated tools to run just several VMs.


Yes, it sounds like you should just ignore libvirt entirely and just 
install qemu-system-x86 (and not qemu-system-gui). That's a minimal 
system with no gui, you just run qemu from the command line to start 
VMs. If you run with --enable-kvm or --machine accel=kvm, then you're 
using kvm (assuming the kernel module is loaded).


That said, there's a huge convenience factor for libvirt. You may end up 
with libraries you'll never use on the server, but so what? You can 
install virt-manager on a client system and manage with a gui that uses 
ssh in the background, or use virsh on the server. If you find yourself 
needing to do something infrequently, it's much easier to discover it in 
the virt-manager gui than it is to dig through docs on how to do it from 
the qemu command line. (This is, of course, the usual tradeoff between 
text and graphical interfaces.) It's also easier to use 
standard/documented solutions for startup, config, storage, etc, than it 
is to remember what bespoke solution you came up with several years ago 
when something breaks, even if all the abstraction layers of libvirt are 
"less efficient".

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 09:12:02 +
Victor Sudakov  wrote:

> I'm currently going to migrate some FreeBSD VMs from bhyve to a linux
> host. I hope KVM will have no problem with their raw disk images. 

You might look into the Debian vagrant-mutate package.

apt show vagrant-mutate

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: linphone and address books

[Mario Marietto]

I forgot to specify that I don't like a telephone so much like I had 20
years ago. I mean,I would like to see a VOIP phone with the form factor of
a smartphone. Sorry if I haven't been very clear.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 1:57 PM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Mario Marietto (2023-06-02 10:27:29)
> > > Does anyone know if on the market there is a phisycal phone (made with
> > > hardware components) which allows to place calls and to send sms only
> using
> > > the VOIP technology ? Would be an interesting product to buy and try
> in my
> > > opinion.
> >
> > Yes, so-called "SIP hardphones" exist.  Try a web search for those
> > terms, or if you are lazy you can use this as a starting point:
> > https://www.asteriskguru.com/tutorials/asterisk_hardphone.html
> >
> > An "hard" alternative is to use a so-called "SIP ATA" (Analogue Phone
> > Adapter) to connect a classic old POTS (Plain Old Telephny Standard)
> > phone with a SIP account.
>
> Having used and deployed both of these in significant numbers, I can
> state that SIP ATAs should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. All
> the functionality that people expect is in VOIP phones, and it's hard
> to access anything other than simple calling with the adapters.
>
> Polycom 33[0,5] VOIP phones are well-built, easy to provision for use
> with Asterisk, FreeSwitch and various VOIP companies, and relatively
> cheap as used phones.
>
> -dsr-
>


-- 
Mario.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:21:45AM +0200, Mario Marietto wrote:

wait wait. for sure the option should be enabled on the bios,but bhyve works in
a different way than kvm,so it works even if my cpu does not have all the virt.
parameters respected. Infact kvm does not work on that cpu. But how many cpus
there are like mine ? Does Linux feel to cover the gap of an alternative to
qemu and kvm ? not sure about xen as an alternative. 


kvm is literally the hardware acceleration piece. If your CPU doesn't 
support that, use qemu without kvm and you get exactly the same 
experience (just a bit slower). So "linux" "feels" no need to cover the 
gap, because there isn't one.

Re: Error Messages

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 12:01:10 +0100
Mick Ab  wrote:

> Ram :-
> 
> I don't know the make of the Ram - someone built the PC for me.
> 
> 16GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM  (2 x 8GB sticks, I understand

You may be able to get the make of the RAM (and more) with:

dmidecode | less

then search ('/') on Memory Device (case sensitive).

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:09:36AM +0200, Paul Leiber wrote:
+1 for Xen, AFAIK the standard apt installation doesn't include any 
management GUI.


This is the howto which helped me getting started:

https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Beginners_Guide


I don't recommend xen for new projects. It has more pieces and tends to 
be more fragile than qemu+kvm, for no real benefits these days. (IMO)

Re: PTR record for mail server

[Andrew Wood]

On 02/06/2023 13:01, Dan Ritter wrote:

Ask OVH to set the PTR to one of your domains, and make sure you
have an MX in each of your domains that points back to that
domain.

i.e.:

PTR mail.longterm.com

MX for longterm:
50  mail.longterm.com

MX for otherdomain:
30  mail.otherdomain.com
50  mail.longterm.com

MX for yetanotherdomain:
30 mail.yetanother.net
50 mail.longterm.com

-dsr-


Thanks Dan I will give that a try.

Re: PTR record for mail server

[Dan Ritter]

Andrew Wood wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> Can I clarify my understanding of an issue with a Debian Postfix server
> please. We have a mail server which is a VPS running Debian hosted by OVH.
> Its hostname is of the form vps-xyz.vps.ovh.net the PTR for the IP resolves
> to that.
> 
> The the issue is our server sends mail for our own domains and we are
> getting mail rejected from some recipient servers with 550 PTR rejected:
> Please use a non-generic PTR (in reply to RCPT TO command.
> 
> 
> My understanding is that as we are sending email from our own domain e.g
> "example.com" its complaining because the PTR is ovh.net not example.com?
> 
> 
> As its not recommended to have more than one PTR for an IP is there anything
> we can do about this given that our server handles mail for a couple of
> domains?

Ask OVH to set the PTR to one of your domains, and make sure you
have an MX in each of your domains that points back to that
domain.

i.e.:

PTR mail.longterm.com

MX for longterm:
50  mail.longterm.com

MX for otherdomain:
30  mail.otherdomain.com
50  mail.longterm.com

MX for yetanotherdomain:
30 mail.yetanother.net
50 mail.longterm.com

-dsr-

Re: linphone and address books

[Dan Ritter]

Jonas Smedegaard wrote: 
> Quoting Mario Marietto (2023-06-02 10:27:29)
> > Does anyone know if on the market there is a phisycal phone (made with
> > hardware components) which allows to place calls and to send sms only using
> > the VOIP technology ? Would be an interesting product to buy and try in my
> > opinion.
> 
> Yes, so-called "SIP hardphones" exist.  Try a web search for those
> terms, or if you are lazy you can use this as a starting point:
> https://www.asteriskguru.com/tutorials/asterisk_hardphone.html
> 
> An "hard" alternative is to use a so-called "SIP ATA" (Analogue Phone
> Adapter) to connect a classic old POTS (Plain Old Telephny Standard)
> phone with a SIP account.

Having used and deployed both of these in significant numbers, I can
state that SIP ATAs should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. All
the functionality that people expect is in VOIP phones, and it's hard
to access anything other than simple calling with the adapters.

Polycom 33[0,5] VOIP phones are well-built, easy to provision for use
with Asterisk, FreeSwitch and various VOIP companies, and relatively
cheap as used phones.

-dsr-

Re: PTR record for mail server

[Michel Verdier]

Le 2 juin 2023 Andrew Wood a écrit :

> The the issue is our server sends mail for our own domains and we are getting
> mail rejected from some recipient servers with 550 PTR rejected: Please use a
> non-generic PTR (in reply to RCPT TO command.

Give the full message for better understanding but I suppose that the
connexion is rejected, not the mails.

> My understanding is that as we are sending email from our own domain e.g
> "example.com" its complaining because the PTR is ovh.net not example.com?

And in the format vps-xyz.vps.ovh.net

> As its not recommended to have more than one PTR for an IP is there anything
> we can do about this given that our server handles mail for a couple of
> domains?

Your server myhostname must resolve to the same ptr. So you should ask a
reverse to ovh setting it to your postfix myhostname. And of course
myhostname must be on your domain. For all your domains you should also
setup SPF and DKIM.

Re: bastante OFFTOPIC - celulares libres

[JavierDebian]

El 1/6/23 a las 18:58, Daniel escribió:

Hola, Daniel de Argentina (La Plata, Bs. As.).

Una consulta bastante offtopic, creo, aunque relacionada con Debian (y 
soft/hard libre en general):


De testarudo uso desde siempre celular "no smart" y correo POP (con 
todos los inconvenientes y falta de opciones que eso implica) no 
obstante ser informático a medias.


Pero resulta que ahora el banco me exige tener uno y bajar su "APP" (les 
interesa "mi experiencia de usuario y seguridad", gente muy atenta y 
sonriente) o no podré en un mes ni usar homeBanking para pagar las 
cuentas :/


La pregunta: alguien puede recomendarme algún teléfono y SO libre (con 
base en Debian por ejemplo pero no necesariamente). Lo poco que encontré 
en la red o no lo comprendo o me huele a falso.


Desde ya gracias

Disculpas si no es adecuado este mensaje en esta lista (que sí otras 
veces me sacó de apuros con mi Debian) den por inválido el mensaje y 
retírenlo sin más los moderadores si es así por favor.






Daniel, somos sufridos coterráneos.

No, vas a tener que conseguir un "smart", todos los bancos están pasando 
al "token", sobre todo, los que dependen de los sistemas de Prisma (Link).


No vas a conseguir celulares Ubuntu, KDE o cosa por el estilo acá en el 
país, salvo que lo mandes a comprar fuera.

Además, esos SO no han tenido buen desempeño.

Y aunque lo consigas... las "app" son para IOS o Android.

Y aunque le llores y te tires al piso en el banco... no pasan bolilla.

Por lo que consigue uno a tu bolsillo con Adroid.
Mi recomendación de lo que hay en plaza, es un Motorola. Los Samsung se 
les parte la pantalla al poco, y los demás son muy caros.


O pedile a algún sobrino o conocido que te pasen uno viejuno; los 
"jóvenes de la generación de cristal" se ponen a llorar si no lo cambian 
cada 2 años, "por que el Istagran no va, vistes".


JAP

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Michael Stone]

On Thu, Jun 01, 2023 at 11:53:26PM -0400, Brian Sammon wrote:

"virt-manager", on the other hand, appears to be fundamentally a GUI tool.


But virsh from libvirt-clients isn't.

Re: packagekit et les mises à jour

[didier gaumet]

Le 02/06/2023 à 12:37, Jean-Marc a écrit :
[...]

Comme je le disait, en parlant de gnome-packagekit, on s'éloigne.

[...]

Tu as peut-être raison :-)

Pour aller dans ton sens (packagekit pur sans les couches GUI Gnome):
tu peux regarder si tu n'as pas dans un lointain passé activé des 
services systemd (au niveau global, voire --user) relatifs à Packagekit:


didier@hp-notebook14:~$ apt-file list packagekit | grep system
packagekit: /etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.conf
packagekit: /lib/systemd/system/packagekit-offline-update.service
packagekit: /lib/systemd/system/packagekit.service
packagekit: 
/lib/systemd/system/system-update.target.wants/packagekit-offline-update.service

packagekit: /usr/lib/systemd/user/pk-debconf-helper.service
packagekit: /usr/lib/systemd/user/pk-debconf-helper.socket
packagekit: 
/usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service



Mais mon sentiment, peut-être injustifié, est que Gnome a été 
suffisamment critiqué par le passé pour ses orientations philosophiques 
à la Windows (Dconf/Gconf comparable au registre, prépondérance accordée 
au GUI au détriment du CLI, etc...)


Donc, à part un paquet packagekit-cron disponible dans d'autres distros 
mais pas dans Debian, j'ai l'impression que ce qui concerne les MAJ 
automatisées sont gérées par des clés Dconf dont certaines ne sont 
accessibles qu'en GUI et par des opérations en GUI indisponibles en CLI. 
Un peu comme certaines choses qui autrefois étaient indisponibles par 
nm-cli ou nm-tui mais dispo par nm-applet pour NetworkManager.


Il serait donc possible que tes problèmes découlent du fait qu'il y a 
sur ton système un état que je qualifierais d'indéterminé malgré les 
infos de apt/dpkg, concernant les paquets gnome-packagekit et 
gnome-package-updater. Je pense que les soucis proviennent de là ou de 
gnome-software, probablement pas de packagekit lui-même


Mais bon, là, mon inspiration-pas-très-inspirée se tarit ;-)

Re: Error Messages

[David]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 11:01, Mick Ab  wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies to the Error Messages.
>
> I don't know how you find which disk is referred to by ata5.

ls -l /dev/disk/by-path | grep 'ata-5'

> I think dm-0 is a reference to a Raid setup.

To get the UUID:
  sudo dmsetup info /dev/dm-0 | grep UUID
then:
  ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid | grep the_uuid_from_above

To see the model and serial number of a particular
drive identifier eg sda1, use:
  ls -l /dev/disk/by-id
and look at the output for the symlinks that link to sda1.

But you don't have to do any of this to follow my
previous suggestion, just reseat *every* SATA connector,
at each end of the cable. Usually it's a simple, quick task.

PTR record for mail server

[Andrew Wood]

Hi

Can I clarify my understanding of an issue with a Debian Postfix server 
please. We have a mail server which is a VPS running Debian hosted by 
OVH. Its hostname is of the form vps-xyz.vps.ovh.net the PTR for the IP 
resolves to that.


The the issue is our server sends mail for our own domains and we are 
getting mail rejected from some recipient servers with 550 PTR rejected: 
Please use a non-generic PTR (in reply to RCPT TO command.



My understanding is that as we are sending email from our own domain e.g 
"example.com" its complaining because the PTR is ovh.net not example.com?



As its not recommended to have more than one PTR for an IP is there 
anything we can do about this given that our server handles mail for a 
couple of domains?


Thanks

Andrew

Re: Error Messages

[piorunz]

Hi Mick,

Can you please give result of this command? (install inxi if you don't
have it)

sudo inxi -Fm

Also, please run Memtest86+ on your machine (for several hours) to check
memory for errors. You can find it there:
https://memtest.org/

It can be also found in Debian packages, but booting to memtest86+ not
always work, especially if you are using EFI booting mode.
Ask if you need any assistance with this.

On 02/06/2023 12:01, Mick Ab wrote:

Thanks for all the replies to the Error Messages.

I don't know how you find which disk is referred to by ata5.

I think dm-0 is a reference to a Raid setup.

Other information about my hardware and rebooting :-

I have two 1 TB hard drives arranged as a RAID 1 array.

The power supply :-

Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX

About 18 months old.

Motherboard BIOS :-

Someone else was checking the BIOS. They said it was a Beta version. I
discovered my RYZEN 5 5600x is the stepping 0
version of the CPU.

Ram :-

I don't know the make of the Ram - someone built the PC for me.

16GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM  (2 x 8GB sticks, I understand


--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Error Messages

[Mick Ab]

Thanks for all the replies to the Error Messages.

I don't know how you find which disk is referred to by ata5.

I think dm-0 is a reference to a Raid setup.

Other information about my hardware and rebooting :-

I have two 1 TB hard drives arranged as a RAID 1 array.

The power supply :-

Corsair TXM Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX

About 18 months old.

Motherboard BIOS :-

Someone else was checking the BIOS. They said it was a Beta version. I
discovered my RYZEN 5 5600x is the stepping 0
version of the CPU.

Ram :-

I don't know the make of the Ram - someone built the PC for me.

16GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM  (2 x 8GB sticks, I understand

Reboots :-

Subsequent to those error messages, I tried a reboot.

This failed :-

The reboot error says:

  /dev/mapper/vgpiglit-root contains a file system with errors, check
forced.
   Inodes that were a part of a corrupted orphan linked lost found.
   /dev/mapper/vgpiglit-root : UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck
manually.(i.e .,
   without -a or -p options). fsck exited with status code 4. The root
   filesystem on /dev/mapper/vgpiglit-root requires a manual fsck

There is then a flashing prompt after "(initramfs)".

The fsck command was then performed :-

fsck  -y  /dev/mapper/vgpiglit-root

A subsequent reboot worked.

Firefox then had a very lengthy cursor lag, but this was solved by deleting
the places and favicons data in the Firefox profile.

No more error messages yet.

Re: packagekit et les mises à jour

[Jean-Marc]

salut,

Le 2/06/23 à 10:29, didier gaumet a écrit :

Le 01/06/2023 à 22:13, Jean-Marc a écrit :
[...]

Potentiellement, illustrant que ton installation de Packagekit est 
incomplète ou pas totalement fonctionnelle à cause d'un conflit de 
dépendances induit par ton dépôt EID


Revenons donc à packagekit.  Voici l'état de mon système :

$ dpkg --list packagekit*
Souhait=inconnU/Installé/suppRimé/Purgé/H=à garder
| 
État=Non/Installé/fichier-Config/dépaqUeté/échec-conFig/H=semi-installé/W=attend-traitement-déclenchements

|/ Err?=(aucune)/besoin Réinstallation (État,Err: majuscule=mauvais)
||/ Nom  Version  Architecture Description
+++----==
ii  packagekit   1.2.6-5  amd64Provides a package 
management service
un  packagekit-installer   (aucune description 
n'est disponible)
ii  packagekit-tools 1.2.6-5  amd64Provides PackageKit 
command-line tools


packagekit et toutes ses dépendences viennent bien de dépôts officiels 
debian unstable.


Plus de détails ci dessous.


l'extrait du manuel Gnome de gnome-packagekit relatif à tout ça montre 
une copie d'écran qui est légèrement différente de ce que j'obtiens en 
Bookworm (probablement que la doc n'a pas été retouchée malgré les 
évolutions), mais montre bien ce que tu dois obtenir avec une 
installation pleinement fonctionnelle:

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-packagekit/stable/prefs.html.fr


Comme je le disait, en parlant de gnome-packagekit, on s'éloigne.

J'ai installé gnome-packagekit à ta suggestion.

Précédemment, gnome-packagekit n'était pas installé.

Et les soucis d'installation pendant le boot étaient bien présents.

--
Jean-Marc

= packagekit - détails
$ apt policy packagekit
packagekit:
  Installé : 1.2.6-5
  Candidat : 1.2.6-5
 Table de version :
 *** 1.2.6-5 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status



$ apt depends packagekit
packagekit
  Dépend: libglib2.0-bin
  Dépend: polkitd
  Dépend: init-system-helpers (>= 1.52)
  Dépend: libappstream4 (>= 0.15.0)
  Dépend: libapt-pkg6.0 (>= 1.9.2)
  Dépend: libc6 (>= 2.34)
  Dépend: libgcc-s1 (>= 3.0)
  Dépend: libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.70.0)
  Dépend: libgstreamer1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0)
  Dépend: libpackagekit-glib2-18 (>= 1.2.4)
  Dépend: libpolkit-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.99)
  Dépend: libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.5.9)
  Dépend: libstdc++6 (>= 11)
  Dépend: libsystemd0 (>= 214)
libelogind0
  Casse: plymouth (<< 0.9.5)
  Recommande: appstream
  Recommande: packagekit-tools
  Recommande: systemd



$ apt depends packagekit | awk '/Dépend/{print $2}' | xargs apt policy


libglib2.0-bin:
  Installé : 2.74.6-2
  Candidat : 2.74.6-2
 Table de version :
 2.76.3-1 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.74.6-2 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
polkitd:
  Installé : 122-3
  Candidat : 122-3
 Table de version :
 *** 122-3 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
init-system-helpers:
  Installé : 1.65.2
  Candidat : 1.65.2
 Table de version :
 *** 1.65.2 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libappstream4:
  Installé : 0.16.1-2
  Candidat : 0.16.1-2
 Table de version :
 *** 0.16.1-2 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libapt-pkg6.0:
  Installé : 2.6.1
  Candidat : 2.6.1
 Table de version :
 2.7.1 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.6.1 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libc6:
  Installé : 2.36-9
  Candidat : 2.36-9
 Table de version :
 2.37-1 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.36-9 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libgcc-s1:
  Installé : 12.2.0-14
  Candidat : 12.2.0-14
 Table de version :
 13.1.0-3 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 12.2.0-14 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libglib2.0-0:
  Installé : 2.74.6-2
  Candidat : 2.74.6-2
 Table de version :
 2.76.3-1 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.74.6-2 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libgstreamer1.0-0:
  Installé : 1.22.0-2
  Candidat : 1.22.0-2
 Table de version :
 1.22.3-1 1
  1 https://deb.debian.org/debian experimental/main amd64 Packages
 *** 1.22.0-2 500
500 https://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
   

Re: linphone and address books

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Mario Marietto (2023-06-02 10:27:29)
> Does anyone know if on the market there is a phisycal phone (made with
> hardware components) which allows to place calls and to send sms only using
> the VOIP technology ? Would be an interesting product to buy and try in my
> opinion.

Yes, so-called "SIP hardphones" exist.  Try a web search for those
terms, or if you are lazy you can use this as a starting point:
https://www.asteriskguru.com/tutorials/asterisk_hardphone.html

An "hard" alternative is to use a so-called "SIP ATA" (Analogue Phone
Adapter) to connect a classic old POTS (Plain Old Telephny Standard)
phone with a SIP account.


 - Jones

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

signature.asc
Description: signature

Re: Error Messages

[David]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 at 18:43, Mick Ab  wrote:

> Recently, Hardware error messages such as the following have
> appeared every few weeks :-

Hi, given that you say these sympoms appear and disappear, the first
and easy thing
I would try, is to re-seat (ie disconnect and reconnect) every SATA connector.
Particularly device ata5 and whatever device is backing dm-0.

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

wait wait. for sure the option should be enabled on the bios,but bhyve
works in a different way than kvm,so it works even if my cpu does not have
all the virt. parameters respected. Infact kvm does not work on that cpu.
But how many cpus there are like mine ? Does Linux feel to cover the gap of
an alternative to qemu and kvm ? not sure about xen as an alternative.

Il ven 2 giu 2023, 11:12 Victor Sudakov  ha scritto:

> Andy Smith wrote:
> > Hi Victor,
>
> Hi Andy!
>
> [dd]
> > > Now I see that a supported minimal headless configuration probably
> > > does not exist at all.
> >
> > I don't think that is correct at all, depending on what you mean by
> > "supported". You absolutely will find a guide out there to do what
> > you want, with relative ease I should think.
>
> Yes, I guess the https://wiki.debian.org/KVM seems a good guide and
> even covers the case of a minimal :-) installation.
>
> [dd]
> >
> > I would say that documentation from Ubuntu is likely to be more
> > "enterprisey". The other thing is, if you're coming from a BSD
> > background (you mentioned Bhyve) you probably are a lot more used to
> > there being one way of doing things and that way being thoroughly
> > documented.
>
> That's correct. Though I must admit the FreeBSD Handbook can be
> outdated in places as the project is clearly lacking resources. It is
> still a very good source of knowledge.
>
> > Whereas on Linux there tends to be multiple ways and
> > even the same one can be slightly different on different Linux
> > distributions.
>
> Some Debian documentation is very good too.
> >
> > I am using Xen more at the moment, but I generally wouldn't
> > recommend that to newcomers. I tend to recommend KVM just because
> > there's so many guides for it out there.
>
> I'm currently going to migrate some FreeBSD VMs from bhyve to a linux
> host. I hope KVM will have no problem with their raw disk images.
>
> [dd]
> >
> > I would probably just install qemu-kvm and accept the bloat of a lot
> > of packages that I would never use, use virsh to manage the VMs from
> > command line, and perhaps over time worm out which packages can be
> > safely removed.
>
> OK, thank you, maybe I'll go this route.
>
> --
> Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
> http://vas.tomsk.ru/
> 2:5005/49@fidonet
>

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Victor Sudakov]

Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi Victor,

Hi Andy!

[dd]
> > Now I see that a supported minimal headless configuration probably
> > does not exist at all.
> 
> I don't think that is correct at all, depending on what you mean by
> "supported". You absolutely will find a guide out there to do what
> you want, with relative ease I should think.

Yes, I guess the https://wiki.debian.org/KVM seems a good guide and
even covers the case of a minimal :-) installation.

[dd]
> 
> I would say that documentation from Ubuntu is likely to be more
> "enterprisey". The other thing is, if you're coming from a BSD
> background (you mentioned Bhyve) you probably are a lot more used to
> there being one way of doing things and that way being thoroughly
> documented. 

That's correct. Though I must admit the FreeBSD Handbook can be
outdated in places as the project is clearly lacking resources. It is
still a very good source of knowledge.

> Whereas on Linux there tends to be multiple ways and
> even the same one can be slightly different on different Linux
> distributions.

Some Debian documentation is very good too. 
> 
> I am using Xen more at the moment, but I generally wouldn't
> recommend that to newcomers. I tend to recommend KVM just because
> there's so many guides for it out there.

I'm currently going to migrate some FreeBSD VMs from bhyve to a linux
host. I hope KVM will have no problem with their raw disk images. 

[dd]
> 
> I would probably just install qemu-kvm and accept the bloat of a lot
> of packages that I would never use, use virsh to manage the VMs from
> command line, and perhaps over time worm out which packages can be
> safely removed.

OK, thank you, maybe I'll go this route.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Paul Leiber]

Am 02.06.2023 um 09:28 schrieb Victor Sudakov:

Miles Fidelman wrote:



On Thu, Jun 1, 2023, 9:58 PM Victor Sudakov mailto:v...@sibptus.ru>> wrote:

 Dear Colleagues,

 There is a hypervisor called bhyve for FreeBSD. It's completely
 headless, no graphics, runs as a daemon and provides serial and VNC
 consoles.

 Can you please advise a similar headless and minimal hypervisor for
 Debian or Ubuntu?



The classic would be Xen (which I've been running for years). There's
also Virtual Box, and VMware ESXi.  You might check out the list at
https://www.hitechnectar.com/blogs/open-source-hypervisor/


Thanks for reminding about Xen, it looks minimalist enough, I am
going to have a look at it.



+1 for Xen, AFAIK the standard apt installation doesn't include any 
management GUI.


This is the howto which helped me getting started:

https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Beginners_Guide

(Disclaimer: I don't have experience with any other virtualization 
package than Xen.)

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Victor Sudakov]

Nicolas George wrote:
> Victor Sudakov (12023-06-02):
> > Oh, I'm a rare kind of newbie. I have 25 years of FreeBSD
> > experience and about 10 years of Solaris experience.
> 
> Newbies who think they have a lot of experience are, sadly, not a rare
> breed.

I agree. But once you start measuring experience by the actual years a
person has actively worked with this or that system, you can judge
more or less objectively.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Victor Sudakov]

Mario Marietto wrote:
> Hello to everyone. I follow every day the development of bhyve for FreeBSD
> and I have even collaborated with some of its developers to add the
> functionality of the passing through of one nvidia gpu to a linux guest.
> What to say ? that bhyve is a programming gem. Qemu and kvm have more
> functionalities but they are even old. Bhyve is a fresh product that is
> evolving fast. Qemu + kvm for example don't work on my old PC that has an
> Intel I5 cpu,because it does not have all the virtualization requirements.
> For the sake of my curiosity I tried bhyve and...it worked. I don't know
> why,but I know that it requires less virtualization directives. Some
> developers talked about the idea to rewrite it to make it a standalone tool
> and I think that's a nice idea. As I think that a cool idea could be to
> rewrite its code to port it to Linux. It could be used as a light
> hypervisor,for those old machines like mine,that don't have all the
> hardware prerogatives needed to run qemu and kvm.

Still, from my experience, if you disable hardware virtualization in
BIOS Setup, bhyve does not work.

I agree with you that bhyve is a masterpiece. The way it works with
ZFS is brilliant too. I usually use the vm-bhyve shell with it, but it
seems to be supported by some hypervisor management tools like
libvirt.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[tomas]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:36:51AM +, Victor Sudakov wrote:

[...]

> Oh, I'm a rare kind of newbie. I have 25 years of FreeBSD
> experience and about 10 years of Solaris experience. However I still
> consider myself a newbie in Linux as I work with it only since 2020
> and in rather limited ways.

:-)

This was my impression, too. But actually, that's what
happens with most of us. I'd be a FreeBSD newbie and
a Solaris newbie too (unless some HP/UX experience way
back then is worth anything).

Glad to see you are finding your path. Mind the bumps
and enjoy the strange landscape :)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[tomas]

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 10:41:42AM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> Victor Sudakov (12023-06-02):
> > Oh, I'm a rare kind of newbie. I have 25 years of FreeBSD
> > experience and about 10 years of Solaris experience.
> 
> Newbies who think they have a lot of experience are, sadly, not a rare
> breed.

"Newbie" is a relative term in a highly multidimensional space.
Expect conflicts of perspective!

I wouldn't say "sadly". That's what makes life interesting.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Victor Sudakov]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:05:18AM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Most of the time with most packages it's obvious, but I have seen
> > some weird things from time to time! KVM is such a big package that
> > I shy away from just advising --no-install-recommends to those
> > inexperienced with it.
> 
> 100% agreed. Whoever deviates from the "recommended" way should be
> prepared (and willing) to learn a few things on the way. Which may
> be a good thing or not :)


Still the idea to have a base hypervisor package: fully tested,
functional and not missing any important files, and a set of optional
GUI tools/shells is very appealing to me. Much like you can install,
for example, Git (CLI tested and ready) and a bunch of optional GUI
tools or editors around it.


-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Victor Sudakov]

Andy Smith wrote:

[dd]

> 
> Most of the time with most packages it's obvious, but I have seen
> some weird things from time to time! KVM is such a big package that
> I shy away from just advising --no-install-recommends to those
> inexperienced with it.

Thanks for your opinion. I've made a mental note to myself to treat
KVM differently from bhyve. The latter is really small and has a very
small footprint on the system. 

Interestingly, libvirt claims to support bhyve, I just never felt a
need for such sophisticated tools to run just several VMs.

-- 
Victor Sudakov VAS4-RIPE
http://vas.tomsk.ru/
2:5005/49@fidonet


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Nicolas George]

Victor Sudakov (12023-06-02):
> Oh, I'm a rare kind of newbie. I have 25 years of FreeBSD
> experience and about 10 years of Solaris experience.

Newbies who think they have a lot of experience are, sadly, not a rare
breed.

Goodbye.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?

[Mario Marietto]

Hello to everyone. I follow every day the development of bhyve for FreeBSD
and I have even collaborated with some of its developers to add the
functionality of the passing through of one nvidia gpu to a linux guest.
What to say ? that bhyve is a programming gem. Qemu and kvm have more
functionalities but they are even old. Bhyve is a fresh product that is
evolving fast. Qemu + kvm for example don't work on my old PC that has an
Intel I5 cpu,because it does not have all the virtualization requirements.
For the sake of my curiosity I tried bhyve and...it worked. I don't know
why,but I know that it requires less virtualization directives. Some
developers talked about the idea to rewrite it to make it a standalone tool
and I think that's a nice idea. As I think that a cool idea could be to
rewrite its code to port it to Linux. It could be used as a light
hypervisor,for those old machines like mine,that don't have all the
hardware prerogatives needed to run qemu and kvm.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 08:05:18AM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> [...]
>
> > Most of the time with most packages it's obvious, but I have seen
> > some weird things from time to time! KVM is such a big package that
> > I shy away from just advising --no-install-recommends to those
> > inexperienced with it.
>
> 100% agreed. Whoever deviates from the "recommended" way should be
> prepared (and willing) to learn a few things on the way. Which may
> be a good thing or not :)
>
> Cheers
> --
> t
>


-- 
Mario.