Re: Gateway newsgroup problem (redux - long)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:36:33AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Jun 10, Tony Rowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of these are signs that the message has been posted somehow to Usenet but not gated to the list. If they can post them, their news server is misconfigured. If you see them, your news server is misconfigured. Blame your respective ISPs and ask them to correctly configure their news servers accordingly to http://www.linux.it/~md/linux-faq . Not helpful. You are doubtless correct about the misconfigured news servers being a problem and certainly, mispostings to linux.debian.user are not your concern. Really: thanks for your gateway service for this list, it is a very useful thing. Your solution is unpracticable unless people know about the problem though. Other linux.debian.* gateways are fine because people using those can be expected to know how gateways work. An faq about what the gateway is and how it is meant to be used, specific to this list and which propagates to linux.debian.user only, may be a good idea? Tony Rowe -- ciao, Marco ---end quoted text--- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: lists.bofh.it
On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 04:53:41PM +0200, Wolfgang Lonien wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I cannot subscribe to this gateway, not with email, not with a browser, not with mailman - what am I doing wrong? I want to use a newsreader instead of getting all this into my mailbox... sigh, Grrr. According to the maintainer of the boft gateway, you should have received a message requesting unauthorized users to register their email address to the authorization mailing list. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200308/msg01512.html Did you notice that you received some sort of authorisation request when you tried to post to the gateway? I assume you did. Is sending out your email address to the authorization mailing list the same as subscribing to the mailing list, I wonder? That would be ok since this is a mailing-list. Still, a lot of people are either failing to notice these messages, possibly because they are unexpected, or something is going wrong some of the time at any rate. Maybe the authorisation request should be reworded somehow? Anyway, I guess this is an opportunity for me to trot out a few more numbers and observations based on articles that were posted over the last five days or so to the gateway only, and which I have saved: In the last five days there have been at least 75 articles posted to the gateway by 48 posters that *did not* get sent out to the mailing list subscribers. (To separate these 75 posts I weeded all the articles posted to the gateway over the last five days which *did not* have an X-Original-Message-ID in the article headers.) Out of those 48 posters at least 8 posters subsequently had their posts resent successfully to the mailing list (including yours Wolfgang, I believe?). Out of those people whose posts were never resent to the list, there were 20 original articles posted to the gateway which seem to be asking genuine questions. The remaining posts (out of the 75) were replies made to threads ongoing on the [real] mailing list, or replies made to the original articles that were posted to the gateway only. In a few cases questions were asked _and_ answered on the gateway and of course, these entire threads were never seen at all by list subscribers (unless they are reading the list on the gateway). As such, it is as though there are two lists co-existing here. Tony -- Seen in a Rhodes tailor shop: Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers is strict rotation. Dalhousie Gazette, 1989 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 06:40:55AM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote: on Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:50:26AM +0100, Pigeon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 05:48:42PM -0400, ScruLoose wrote: A properly designed program *even if it doesn't know PGP* will just display the message text, leaving the signature alone it its own attachment. And a decent client that does understand PGP will do the same if you tell it to, so you don't have to be encumbered with it if you don't want to be. Alan's complaints here are very curious as his headers indicate he uses mutt. Which was designed as a reference RFC 2015 implementation by Michael R. Elkins, specifically to provide PGP signature and encryption support. I found Alan languishing in the news gateway trying to post a useful pointer in response to someone on the list. I pointed out to him that this is a mailing-list and to post to the list if he wanted his posts to be seen. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200307/msg02923.html Similarly, Alan's mail configuration breaks threads for some reason. Yes well, he and I were both curious about reading the gateway using a newsreader (slrn) and responding to the list using an MUA (mutt). http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200307/msg03153.html It turns out that the References: and Message-ID: headers are rewritten by the news gateway. I have since discovered that threading can (hopefully) be preserved by copying the News gateway headers, X-Original-References: - References:, and X-Original-Message-ID: - Message-ID: . This is a horrible, clunky process and I think it is far better to subscribe to the list if posting often. Veering [further] off-topic, I notice that at least one other person has posted a genuine question to the News gateway in the last few days (the person was admirably helped by someone else reading and posting to the gateway). I guess it is non-obvious to some people grazing Usenet that the gateway is meant to be RO. I am wondering if a post to the gateway could be automated to go out every week or two just to clarify this to the Usenet denizens (who may have legitimate questions for the list)? It could say something like: This is intended to be a Read-Only gateway to Usenet News of the debian-user mailing-list. People who wish to post to this list should send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of subscribe, and then post to the list using their mail client. Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 07:48:56PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:34:45PM -0300, Anthony Rowe wrote: I feel someone should contact Marco d'Itri who runs the bofh.it gateway, and ask his opinion about automating that small message about the gateway being Read-Only. I am happy to do this (in the next week or two) and get back to the list. How does that sound? Well, do you want to do it, or should I? It's pretty reasonable to assume that the news servers are propagating to each other. Please go ahead and do it Paul. There is usually a one-line description of a newsgroup which is displayed beside one's personal list of subscribed newsgroups. It gives a very short summary of what the newsgroup is supposed to be about. If linux.debian.user had the description, Read-Only. Please subscribe to mailing-list to post, or some such, this would do the trick I think. This is maybe what Karsten was referring to when he mentioned that newsgroup descriptions are the proper repository for such a message. (I just thought of this. I'll ask him in a sec. I was trying to think what he meant by that.) Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Automated message to d-u gateway
[Open message Cc'ed to Marco d'Itri] I am interested in seeing a short, descriptive, automated post on the debian-user gateway (and to the debian-user gateway only), and have posted about this recently to the list. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200308/msg00774.html -- [...] - Veering [further] off-topic, I notice that at least one other person - has posted a genuine question to the News gateway in the last few days - (the person was admirably helped by someone else reading and posting - to the gateway). I guess it is non-obvious to some people grazing - Usenet that the gateway is meant to be RO. I am wondering if a post - to the gateway could be automated to go out every week or two just to - clarify this to the Usenet denizens (who may have legitimate questions - for the list)? - - It could say something like: - - This is intended to be a Read-Only gateway to Usenet News of the - debian-user mailing-list. People who wish to post to this list should - send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject - of subscribe, and then post to the list using their mail client. - Paul Johnson said he would be game to do this. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200308/msg00782.html Colin Watson suggested that the third party who is responsible for the News-gateway, should be consulted. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200308/msg00787.html Do you Marco, or anyone else, have any suggestions or objections with regard to automating such a post to the News-gateways for the debian- user list? Thank-you Marco, for your packages, your gateways, and your time. I appreciate all of those every day. Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:26:08PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 12:58:07PM -0300, Anthony Rowe wrote: I wouldn't mind taking up the cause. What are the newsgroups this is heard on? linux.debian.user Isn't it also in muc.* someplace? not that I am aware of...not muc.*...but there is another gateway: http://www.debian.org/support - A lot of our mailing lists can be browsed as newsgroups, in the - linux.debian.* hierarchy. This can also be done using a web - interface such as Google Groups or Gmane. gmane (http://gmane.org) claims to leave original Message-ID: and Reference: headers intact. I am unable to experiment with it by starting my newsreader on nntp://news.gname.org because I don't run any nntp server-type software. My ISP's nntp server subscribes [me] to the bofh.it gateway (which does rewrite those headers). This recent thread on debian-devel has some discussion about posting news2mail using the gmane gateway. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200305/msg00319.html I wonder if using gmane to post back to mail munges headers _at all_, since that would presumably bork PGP signed mails/articles? I feel someone should contact Marco d'Itri who runs the bofh.it gateway, and ask his opinion about automating that small message about the gateway being Read-Only. I am happy to do this (in the next week or two) and get back to the list. How does that sound? I don't know what, if anything, to do about posting a similar automated message to gmane. Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 04:10:02PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:38:48AM -0300, Anthony Rowe wrote: It turns out that the References: and Message-ID: headers are rewritten by the news gateway. I have since discovered that threading can (hopefully) be preserved by copying the News gateway headers, X-Original-References: - References:, and X-Original-Message-ID: - Message-ID: . Not to those headers in your own post, I hope ... (Apologies if you meant to construct a new References: header based on those and I just misunderstood you.) Yes, construct a new References: is what I meant...I think. :) Sorry that my description was muddled. I am a little unclear about what I am doing to get these posts threaded properly. It involves lots of editing headers manually and it breaks PGP signed messages and it is, in all respects, sub-optimal. I am wondering if a post to the gateway could be automated to go out every week or two just to clarify this to the Usenet denizens (who may have legitimate questions for the list)? I think that would be useful. However, the news gateway is, as far as I know, run by a third party, so you'll need to contact whoever that is to arrange for it to happen. Thanks. That is interesting. Marco d'Itri runs the bofh.it gateway (http://www.bofh.it/) for linux.debian.user. I would like to contact him about this as you suggest. I feel it would be courteous (or even essential) that I sign my mails if I want a private correspondence with a stranger who is a dd, about a debian-related matter. I will try to get a PGP key working (and signed) and then contact Marco. It may take a little time but I'll get to it. Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rxvt/aterm not displaying symbols typed with Mode_Switch
On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 04:36:14PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: Guys, what should I do, I am helpless! I have two systems, and did xmodmap modifications on each, such that my Windows key does a Mode_Switch and thus changed my Keycodes such that pressing e.g Win-a produces an รค (a with two dots, Umlaut, diaeresis, whatever you want to call it). In xedit, mozilla, and xterm, these work just fine. However, it doesn't work in aterm or rxvt on one of the two systems, while it works just fine on the other. Taking a wild stab at this: Bug in aterm? There is a recent bug against aterm (#204073) that sounds at least on-topic? [...] I am therefore 99% sure that the problem lies with aterm/rxvt, but I can't imagine why it should -- the installed software is identical on both systems. Is there any difference between the LC-CTYPE on the machines in question (I am just parroting the bug report banter here)? /end wild stab Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NNTP to email?
*Blush* I sent this to Paul and I meant to send it to the list so I am forwarding it. I should take my own advice and subscribe to the list. Sorry for the noise, Paul. Tony ---BeginMessage--- On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 12:55:03AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: I just tried slrn...two big concerns: How do you hide read articles in the index, No idea. Can one do this with mutt? You can remove read articles with 'x' (with slrn) and you can tag, and operate on tagged articles (like mutt), or toggle collapse/uncollapse_threads (like mutt), but I can see no way to hide read articles as such. and can it use PGP? Nope. Good point. Looks like there is a macro here: http://www.thur.de/~Voland/pub/slrn/pgp-stuff.sl Contains macros for calling PGP (for checking signatures). Idiotically, PGP-2.6* don't returns useful error codes! We must wait for Open PGP for this ... I have not tried it. But there should be native support for PGP I reckon. There are no bugs about this in the BTS. I checked. Should I file one? Would it be wishlist? Thanks for your support on this list, by the way. Tony ---End Message---
Re: Automated message to d-u gateway
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 07:12:11PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: WTF? The gateway is *not at all* read only. Fair enough, but occasionally people post in a vacuum, so to speak. Here are two (News) message-ID's of articles posted to the debian-user gateway as News which never reached the mailing-list. Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -article sent to the gateway only Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -article sent to the gateway only Everybody can post after registering their own email address with the authorisation mailing list, as explained in the message sent to unauthorised users. Huh? I posted in reply to Colin on the list from a saved News- article, without being subscribed to the list. However, I never received any message about registering my email address? Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -my gated article sent successfully to the list without my being subscribed and editing message headers by hand to preserve threading. The point is that some confusion exists some of the time. Some people reading Usenet and who have a question suitable for the debian-user list think the list is a newsgroup and post accordingly, or have difficulties doing news2mail - myself included. Most people posting to other gated Debian lists might be expected to have more clue about how this works. But this is a gateway to the User list and I think it would be best if details about news2mail were made as blindingly obvious as possible. Can anything (more) be done to clarify how the d-u gateway works for news2mail? Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: d-u / Usenet gateway (was Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful)
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:33:25PM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote: Newsgroup descriptions are the proper repository for this information. Are you referring to those very short descriptions consisting of a few words which are displayed next to one's subscribed groups as a very general introduction to the newsgroup? Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 08:22:44AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:38:48AM -0300, Anthony Rowe wrote: I guess it is non-obvious to some people grazing Usenet that the gateway is meant to be RO. I am wondering if a post to the gateway could be automated to go out every week or two just to clarify this to the Usenet denizens (who may have legitimate questions for the list)? I wouldn't mind taking up the cause. What are the newsgroups this is heard on? linux.debian.user Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Replying by email to the newsfeed
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 09:30:08PM +0200, Alan Connor wrote: Am working on a sed script that will remove most of the headers and put in front of the lines in the body, etc That sed script (or the way it is used) still needs some tweaking it seems. While you can strip out headers it is probably impossible to write in the missing ones if any, and threading may remain iffy. Still, why not just browse saved articles using mutt and reply to them by pressing 'r' in the usual way as I mentioned earlier? Doing this looks after the quoting as well. Perhaps improvements could yet be made by doing some of the things you are trying to do, but it's fairly simple to use mutt to browse your slrn directory, and all the e-mail functionality you need is already in place. In any case, if I was going to participate regularly on debian-user, I would subscribe to the mailing list. Surely that is the best way to handle the list anyway? Usually I am read-only and the newsfeed is great for that... Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Replying by email to the newsfeed
On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 12:40:07PM +0200, Anita Lewis wrote:
On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:50:13PM +0200, Anthony Rowe wrote:
I save articles I wish to keep or reply to (using 'o' in slrn) to the
default file (probably ~/News/Linux.debian.user). Then browse this
file using my MUA ('c', '?', and then to '../', and '/News' etc. in
mutt). Saved articles are in mailbox format so mutt will display them
the same as a saved email. Reply as usual editing the To: field as
needed.
Wow! Thanks, Tony. This is a lot easier, because I can use the alias I
have to change the To: It will also give me a copy in my Sent mail folder.
Hmmm. Editing the Subject: field on the other hand, seems to bork the
message threading (I did it too). :( I guess the non-displayed mail
headers get changed by the newsfeed. So, when replying to a thread
(from the newsfeed), leaving the Subject: field unchanged is probably
a good idea - the Debian list server must resort to using the Subject:
field to try to thread replies that have otherwise skewed headers?
There is always a bottleneck somewhere...
Tony
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Replying by email to the newsfeed [Was: Re: Linux Commands]
On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 07:00:21PM +0200, Alan Connor wrote:
Tried to pipe the articles, with |, to mutt but it hasn't worked so far.
I save articles I wish to keep or reply to (using 'o' in slrn) to the
default file (probably ~/News/Linux.debian.user). Then browse this
file using my MUA ('c', '?', and then to '../', and '/News' etc. in
mutt). Saved articles are in mailbox format so mutt will display them
the same as a saved email. Reply as usual editing the To: field as
needed.
Keeping mail and news separate helps me to avoid confusing the two
(which could be quite embarressing in some situations :). Also, any
tweaks I may make to the way I handle my mail in the future will be
preserved for my debian-user mail. I think it is confusing enough to
read the list as news and post to it as mail without further
complicating matters by using my newsreader to send mail to the list.
YMMV
Tony
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Re: Linux commands
On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 04:49:06AM +, Alan Connor wrote: On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:50:07 +0200, GLS-Ausmines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Is there any Internet access to Linux commands? (I have not found any = at Debian and Redhat sites.) http://rute.sourceforge.net can be very helpful Yes indeed. Nice document. It's thorough and well written. Thank-you for the pointer. Alan Alan, I think you posted this to the newsfeed only, so people on the debian-user mailing list would never see it (at least it isn't showing up in the archives). I notice User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.3 (Linux) in your headers. linux.debian.user is only a newsfeed from the list and not a newsgroup on Usenet as such. You need to use a mailer to post to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pppd + exim question
2) Does anyone have a version of exim.conf which works with and ISP over a dialup connection? I will very grateful if anyone could email it to me. I wrestled with this problem for a long time; selecting #2 in eximconfig and then trying everything I could think of. If all you are wanting exim to do is to hand your mail to a smarthost on your dialup server then I recomend purging exim and installing sSMTP. sSMTP is a very small (16.8K!) mail transfer agent which is easy to set up and which works well. kind regards, Tony
