from:"David"

On Tue 04 Jun 2024 at 09:30:53 (+0700), Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 03/06/2024 23:10, James H. H. Lampert wrote:
> > In my experience, T-Bird is the worst email reader I've ever used
> > . . . except for *every other* email reader (without a single
> > exception) I've tried. I'm particularly irritated with those that
> > have no way to disable HTML rendering, and those that have no way
> > to send properly formatted plain-text-only emails, those that try
> > to trick you into top-posting
> 
> When I read this first time I decided that the complain[t] applies to
> thunderbird as well. In thunderbird it is configurable. However I
> admit that some complications may exist depending on precise
> definition of "properly formatted plain-text-only emails".

Well, I can imagine some business/legal-oriented MUA that would
react to attempts to correct a typo in the "original message",
let alone interpolating responses into it, with complaints of
tampering, or threats of reporting you to the legal department.
I guess top-posting is de rigueur in those environments.

Cheers,
David.

Re: WAS: [ SOLVED] Re: Yet ANOTHER ThunderTurd ( Thunderbird ).. NOW~~The dangers of .mbox mail clients?

On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 14:08:46 (-0500), Chris M wrote:
> I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox
> format to store emails.
> It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.
> 
> Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the mailbox
> a certain size?
> or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?
> 
> The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1
> on Windows 10. And you had
> to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.
> 
> I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done
> reading emails.

AIUI the critical issue here is how and where the active INBOX is
stored, as you have no control on when an incoming email is going to
arrive. I pay the professionals who host my domain to handle that for
me, and then I access the INBOX with IMAP, using mutt as my MUA.

If you use mbox, then you need to make sure that file-locking
is working with every program involved in delivery, filtering etc.
I've trusted mutt for over 25 years with my local mbox files.
Size isn't an issue AFAICT, with individual boxes up to 500MB with
7000 entries. Meanwhile IMAP is handling a 600MB and 38000 entry INBOX.

Cheers,
David.

Re: tree with dir size

On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 18:29:17 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 10:45:28PM +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:
> > On 03/06/24 at 16:32, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > duhs() {
> > >  (
> > >shopt -s dotglob
> > >printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
> > >  )
> > > }
> > 
> > I've some issue with this function. It doesn't show the size of the
> > directory specified as argument, it follows the output of my original
> > function:
> 
> I started writing a response to this, because it seemed easy enough to
> fix -- just add "${1:-.}" to the printf arguments, so it gets passed
> along to du -sh, and included in the output.
> 
> But then I tested it.
> 
> hobbit:~$ du -sh /usr/local /usr/local/bin
> 684M/usr/local
> 
> What?  Where's the second line?
> 
> hobbit:~$ du -sh /usr/local/bin /usr/local/etc
> 81M /usr/local/bin
> 4.0K/usr/local/etc
> 
> Multiple arguments are allowed
> 
> hobbit:~$ du -sh /usr/local/bin /usr/local/etc /usr/local
> 81M /usr/local/bin
> 4.0K/usr/local/etc
> 603M/usr/local
> 
> You're even allowed to have a parent directory after its children...
> 
> hobbit:~$ du -sh /usr/local /usr/local/bin /usr/local/etc
> 684M/usr/local
> 
> ... but if the parent is FIRST, the children get... swallowed up by
> it?  Huh?  And if the parent is last, then the value shown for the
> parent excludes the children that were already reported on?
> 
> Why the HELL is it like this?!
> 
> It doesn't even match its own documentation.  Here's what the info
> page says:
> 
> ‘-s’
> ‘--summarize’
>  Display only a total for each argument.
> 
> There's supposed to be a total *FOR EACH ARGUMENT*.  There isn't.
> 
> OK, I officially wash my hands of ANY solution based on du -s.  If
> you want to try to make it work sensibly, more power to you.  As far
> as I'm concerned, though, this is broken.  Irreparably broken.

Try adding -l. The idea is that du is trying to avoid double-counting,
so when the subdirectories come first, those ones are "used up" by
the time it reaches the parent. When the parent is first, it's (all)
the subdirectories instead that have been "used up".

Cheers,
David.

Re: tree with dir size

On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 15:03:37 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 01:11:57PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 10:32:16 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > duhs() (
> > > shopt -s dotglob
> > > printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
> > > )
> > > 
> > > I'm not personally fond of this.  It's extremely easy to overlook
> > > the fact that the curly braces have been replaced with parentheses,
> 
> > I guess minimalists would make a one-liner out of that.
> > Myself, I prefer verbosity, and the ability to search and find
> > all my functions with   /function.*{$   in less. For example,
> > I write what is probably my most trivial function in .bashrc as:
> > 
> >   function _Cat_ {
> >   cat
> >   }
> > 
> > rather than:
> > 
> >   _Cat_() { cat; }
> 
> ... I feel like you've just exemplified what I was talking about, missing
> the fact that the curly braces were replaced with parentheses around the
> function body to force a subshell every time it's called.

  _Puss_() ( cat )

if it makes you happy; but no, you made your point about parentheses
perfectly well. It's just that _Cat_ doesn't require a subshell for
/its/ purpose.

> It had nothing to do with how many lines of code were used.  I could
> have written them as
> 
> duhs() { (shopt -s dotglob; printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du 
> -sh); }
> 
> and
> 
> duhs() (shopt -s dotglob; printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh)
> 
> and the same point would have applied.
> 
> >   function _Cat_ {
> 
> Do note that the "function" keyword is a bash/ksh extension, and not
> part of POSIX sh syntax.  In bash, "x()" and "function x" are identical
> in behavior.  In ksh, they cause two different kinds of variable scoping
> behavior.  Bash also allows "function x()" which ksh does not.
> 
> Just for the record.

Noted. (Franco did mention using bash, and I mentioned .bashrc.)
I'm a bit old for switching shells now!

Cheers,
David.

Re: tree with dir size

On Mon 03 Jun 2024 at 10:32:16 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> I'll also throw in one last piece of information because if I don't,
> someone else is likely to do it, without a good explanation.
> Syntactically, the body of a shell function doesn't have to be enclosed
> in curly braces.  The body can be any compound command, and a curly-brace
> command group is just one example of a compound command.  A subshell is
> another example.  So, it could also be written this way:
> 
> duhs() (
> shopt -s dotglob
> printf '%s\0' "${1:-.}"/*/ | xargs -0 du -sh
> )
> 
> I'm not personally fond of this.  It's extremely easy to overlook
> the fact that the curly braces have been replaced with parentheses,
> especially in certain fonts.  Nevertheless, some people like this.

I guess minimalists would make a one-liner out of that.
Myself, I prefer verbosity, and the ability to search and find
all my functions with   /function.*{$   in less. For example,
I write what is probably my most trivial function in .bashrc as:

  function _Cat_ {
  cat
  }

rather than:

  _Cat_() { cat; }

Cheers,
David.

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

2024-06-03 Thread David Christensen


On 6/2/24 21:35, DdB wrote:

Am 02.06.2024 um 02:41 schrieb DdB:

Will share my findings, once i made more progress...


Here is what i've got before utilizing it:



datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ cat test
#!/bin/bash -e
# testing usefulness of coprocess to control host and backup machine from a 
single script.
# beware: do not use subprocesses or pipes, as that will confuse the pipes 
setup by coproc!
# At this point, this interface may not be very flexible
# but trying to follow best practices for using coproc in bash scripts
# todo (deferred): how to handle stderr inside coproc?
# todo (deferred): what, if coproc dies unexpectedly?

# setting up the coprocess:
stdout_to_ssh_stdin=5 # arbitrary choice outside the range of used file 
desciptors
stdin_from_ssh_stdout=6

coproc SSH { bash; } # for testing purposes, i refrain from really 
involving ssh just yet and replace it with bash:

# save filedescriptors by duplicating them:
eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&${SSH[0]} 
${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>&${SSH[1]}"
echo The PID of the coproc is: $SSH_PID # possibly useful for inspection

unique_eof_delimirer=""
line=""
# collect the output available and print it locally (synchonous):
function print-immediate-output () {
while IFS= read -r -u "${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}" line
do
if [[ "${line:0-5:5}" == "$unique_eof_delimirer" ]] # currently, 
the length is fixed
then
line="${line%}"
if [[ ! -z $line ]]
then
printf '%s\n' "$line"
fi
break
fi
printf '%s\n' "$line"
done
}

# send a single command via ssh and print output locally
function send-single-ssh-command () {
printf '%s\n' "$@" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
printf '%s\n' "echo '"$unique_eof_delimirer"'" 
>&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}"
print-immediate-output
}


send-single-ssh-command "find . -maxdepth 1 -name [a-z]\*" # more or less a 
standard command, that succeeds
send-single-ssh-command "ls nothin" # more or less a standard command, that 
fails

# tearing down the coprocess:
printf "%s\n" "exit" >&"${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}" # not interested in any 
more output (probably none)
wait
# Descriptors must be closed to prevent leaking.
eval "exec ${stdin_from_ssh_stdout}<&- ${stdout_to_ssh_stdin}>-"

echo "waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done"

datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$ ./test
The PID of the coproc is: 28154
./test
./out
ls: Zugriff auf 'nothin' nicht möglich: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
waited for the coproc to end gracefully, done
datakanja@PBuster-NFox:/mnt/tmp$



"test" is both a program and a shell builtin.  I suggest that you pick 
another, non-keyword, name for your script.



I suggest adding the Bash option "-u' (nounset).


Your file descriptor duplication, redirection, etc., seems overly 
complex.  Would not it be easier to use the coproc handles directly?


2024-06-03 08:49:41 dpchrist@laalaa ~/sandbox/bash
$ nl coproc-demo
 1  #!/usr/bin/env bash
 2  # $Id: coproc-demo,v 1.3 2024/06/03 15:49:36 dpchrist Exp $
 3  set -e
 4  set -u
 5  coproc COPROC { bash ; }
 6  echo 'echo "hello, world!"' >&"${COPROC[1]}"
 7  read -r reply <&"${COPROC[0]}"
 8  echo $reply
 9  echo "exit" >&"${COPROC[1]}"
10  wait $COPROC_PID

2024-06-03 08:49:44 dpchrist@laalaa ~/sandbox/bash
$ bash -x coproc-demo
+ set -e
+ set -u
+ echo 'echo "hello, world!"'
+ bash
+ read -r reply
+ echo hello, 'world!'
hello, world!
+ echo exit
+ wait 4229


David

Re: advanced scripting problems - or wrong approach?

2024-06-01 Thread David Christensen


On 6/1/24 00:20, DdB wrote:

Hello,

for years have i been using a self-made backup script, that did mount a
drive via USB, performed all kinds of plausibility checks, before
actually backing up incrementally. Finally verifying success and logging
the activities while kicking the ISB drive out.

Since a few months, i do have a real backup server instead, connecting
to it via ssh i was able to have 2 terminals open and back up manually.
Last time, i introduced a mistake by accident and since, i am trying to
automate the whole thing once again, but that is difficult, as the load
on the net is huge, mbuffer is useful in that regard. So i was intending
to have just one script for all the operations using coproc to
coordinate the 2 servers.

But weird things are going on, i cant reliably communicate between host
and backup server, at least not automatically.

Searching the web, i found:
https://github.com/reconquest/coproc.bash/blob/master/REFERENCE.md
But i was unable to get this to work, which seems to indicate, that i am
misunderstanding something.
The only success i had was to "talk" to a chess engine in a coprocess,
which did go well. But neither bash nor ssh are cooperating, i may have
timing issues with the pipes or some other side effects.

How can i describe? For example if i start this:

#!/bin/bash -e

coproc { bash; }
exec 5<&${COPROC[0]} 6>&${COPROC[1]}
fd=5

echo "ls" >&6
while IFS= read -ru $fd line
do
 printf '%s\n' "$line"
done

printf "%s\n" "sleep 3;exit" >&6
while IFS= read -ru $fd line
do
 printf '%s\n' "$line"
done

exec 5<&- 6>&-

wait
echo waited, done


i get the output from ls, but then the thing is hanging indefinitely,
apparently not reaching the exit line. :(

Anyone who can share his experience to advance my experimenting?
DdB




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem


Please define the root problem you are trying to solve.


David

Re: Question About Free File Transfering Apps

2024-05-31 Thread David Wright

On Fri 31 May 2024 at 17:30:19 (+0100), mick.crane wrote:
> On 2024-05-31 13:58, gene heskett wrote:
> > On 5/30/24 20:09, mick.crane wrote:
> > > On 2024-05-29 15:07, Carter Zhang wrote:
> > > > Are there any free apps for GNU/Linux and Android to share files over
> > > > LAN? There have already been LocalSend, LanXchange, LANDrop,
> > > > NitroShare, Sharik, Warpinator, TrebleShot, but they have respective
> > > > problems.
> > > 
> > >   I don't know if sshfs would have issues with more than one
> > > connection.
> > > 
> > It does not, I have open sessions to 6 other machines here,
> > possability's of up to 10 if all are turned on.

AFAICT from your posts Gene, you are the sole user on your LAN,
so "sharing files" takes on a particular meaning.

> I only drag stuff in and out of the directory in Thunar. Dragging from
> the directory takes a copy. I wondered what would happen if somebody
> deleted a file while you were half way through fetching it.

AIUI you get a race. So unless you elaborate on who the potential
agents are on your LAN (spouse, kids, kids mates), I don't think
sshfs would be an appropriate choice, and neither does an author
of the wikipedia page:

 "SSHFS is an alternative to those protocols [A(pple)FP, NFS, SMB]
  only in situations where users are confident that files and
  directories will not be targeted for writing by another user,
  at the same time."

Cheers,
David.

Re: tree with dir size

2024-05-31 Thread David Wright

On Fri 31 May 2024 at 16:03:22 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, May 31, 2024 at 09:18:03PM +0200, Franco Martelli wrote:
> > On 31/05/24 at 02:18, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > Confusing and useless.  I still don't have a better answer than this:
> > > 
> > > hobbit:~$ tree --du -Fh /tmp/x | grep /$
> > > [7.8M]/tmp/x/
> > > └── [4.0K]  y/
> > 
> > It could be improved adding the "-a" switch to show also the hidden
> > directories and the "--color" switch to the "grep" command but this sadly
> > doesn't show the expected result (colorized directories) I don't know why:
> > 
> > ~$ tree --du -Fah /tmp/x | grep --color /$
> 
> You're only coloring the trailing / characters.  If you want everything
> from after the last space to the end of the line, you'd want:
> 
> tree --du -Fh /usr/local | grep --color '[^[:space:]]*/$'
> 
> Of course this fails to colorize the entire directory name if there's
> a space in it.

If a coloured ] is unimportant, I suppose you could use:

  tree --du -Fh whatever | grep --color '][[:space:]][[:space:]].*/$'

Cheers,
David.

Re: Anybody Skype users here?

2024-05-30 Thread David Wright

On Fri 31 May 2024 at 08:48:33 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote:
> On 31/5/24 08:04, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 31 May 2024 at 07:57:22 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote:
> > > On 31/5/24 07:49, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> > > > wget https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Trying to access that URL with SeaMonkey, to view the directory
> > > listing (to find version numbers), returned the following;
> > > 
> > > "
> > > An error occurred while processing your request.
> > > 
> > > Reference #97.6edf56b8.1717113285.e8ac5eb
> > > 
> > > https://errors.edgesuite.net/97.6edf56b8.1717113285.e8ac5eb
> > > "
> > 
> > It took a few seconds while it thought about it (I thought it might
> > time out), but it worked here (KS):
> > 
> >$ wget https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
> >--2024-05-30 18:59:55--  
> > https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
> >Resolving repo.skype.com (repo.skype.com)... 23.32.128.139, 
> > 2001:578:2c:fe8b::1263, 2001:578:2c:fe99::1263
> >Connecting to repo.skype.com (repo.skype.com)|23.32.128.139|:443... 
> > connected.
> >HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
> >Length: 122062452 (116M) [application/x-debian-package]
> >Saving to: ‘skypeforlinux-64.deb’
> >skypeforlinux-64.deb
> > 100%[=>] 116.41M  9.19MB/sin 12s
> >2024-05-30 19:00:27 (9.34 MB/s) - ‘skypeforlinux-64.deb’ saved 
> > [122062452/122062452]
> >$
> 
> If you install it, please tell me what is the version number.
> 
> Thank you in anticipation.

I haven't, but DEBIAN/control is attached, and there are
several occurrences of v8 in the main binary.

Cheers,
David.
Package: skypeforlinux
Version: 8.109.0.209
Architecture: amd64
Maintainer: Skype Technologies S.A. 
Installed-Size: 312110
Depends: libasound2 (>= 1.0.16), libatk-bridge2.0-0 (>= 2.5.3), libatk1.0-0 (>= 
2.2.0), libatspi2.0-0 (>= 2.9.90), libc6 (>= 2.17), libcairo2 (>= 1.6.0), 
libdrm2 (>= 2.4.38), libexpat1 (>= 2.0.1), libgbm1 (>= 17.1.0~rc2), libgcc1 (>= 
1:3.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.39.4), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.9.10), libnspr4 (>= 
2:4.9-2~), libnss3 (>= 2:3.22), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libsecret-1-0 (>= 
0.18), libx11-6 (>= 2:1.4.99.1), libxcb1 (>= 1.9.2), libxcomposite1 (>= 
1:0.3-1), libxdamage1 (>= 1:1.1), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxkbcommon0 (>= 
0.5.0), libxrandr2, gnome-keyring, apt-transport-https, libfontconfig1 (>= 
2.11.0), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.6.18), libstdc++6 (>= 4.8.1), libatomic1
Section: non-free/net
Priority: extra
Homepage: https://www.skype.com
Description: Skype keeps the world talking, for free.
 Skype keeps you together. Call, message and share with others.
  * It's free to download and join.
  * Call, instant message and send photos and documents to anyone else on Skype.
  * Easily text message anywhere in the world.
  * Get your friends together on a group call.
 And that's just the start...

Re: Anybody Skype users here?

2024-05-30 Thread David Wright

On Fri 31 May 2024 at 07:57:22 (+0800), Bret Busby wrote:
> On 31/5/24 07:49, Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> > wget https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
> > 
> 
> Trying to access that URL with SeaMonkey, to view the directory
> listing (to find version numbers), returned the following;
> 
> "
> An error occurred while processing your request.
> 
> Reference #97.6edf56b8.1717113285.e8ac5eb
> 
> https://errors.edgesuite.net/97.6edf56b8.1717113285.e8ac5eb
> "

It took a few seconds while it thought about it (I thought it might
time out), but it worked here (KS):

  $ wget https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
  --2024-05-30 18:59:55--  https://repo.skype.com/latest/skypeforlinux-64.deb
  Resolving repo.skype.com (repo.skype.com)... 23.32.128.139, 
2001:578:2c:fe8b::1263, 2001:578:2c:fe99::1263
  Connecting to repo.skype.com (repo.skype.com)|23.32.128.139|:443... connected.
  HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
  Length: 122062452 (116M) [application/x-debian-package]
  Saving to: ‘skypeforlinux-64.deb’
  
  skypeforlinux-64.deb100%[=>] 
116.41M  9.19MB/sin 12s 
  
  2024-05-30 19:00:27 (9.34 MB/s) - ‘skypeforlinux-64.deb’ saved 
[122062452/122062452]
  
  $ 

Cheers,
David.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-30 Thread David Christensen

On 5/30/24 03:14, Roger Price wrote:

On Wed, 29 May 2024, David Christensen wrote:

On 5/29/24 03:36, Roger Price wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2024, David Christensen wrote:

On 5/28/24 00:28, Roger Price wrote:
I wired my place Cat5. A lot of work, and I regretted it. I live
in the hills behind Nice, an area with a lot of lightning. The
overhead line to my place took a hit and thanks to the Cat5
conductivity I lost equipment.

How do you know that the damage your equipment suffered was due to
the Cat 5e wiring and not due to the electrical power conductors?

Electrical power to my computers comes through 30mA differential
circuit breakers to Eaton Ellipse 1600 UPS units. I had no such
protection for the telephone signal, and I saw flashes at the
telephone junction box. So I summise that the Cat5 wiring did the
damage.

Those UPS's should be able to protect telephone and Ethernet, in
addition to electrical power. Have you applied the UPS's to the
former two?

The UPS's stand next to the workstations and well away from the place
where the telephone line arrives, so I didn't use the UPS's to protect
the telephone line. My fault. Later I added a surge protector to the
copper telephone line. I am now in the process of migrating from copper
to fiber so I will need an extra UPS next the fiber terminator.

Roger

===

https://www.eaton.com/sg/en-us/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/eaton-ellipse-pro-ups.html

PS: I once had a lightning strike direct to the house. Frightening.
Although every differential circuit breaker in the house tripped, the
circuit board in the UPS melted. But even when melting, it protected
the Dell T7500. No damage to the T7500, no data lost. I took a photo of
the melt, sent it to Eaton, and they replaced the UPS.

Have you consider applying lightning protection to your house?

1. Lightning rods, down lines, ground rods, perimeter ground loop, etc..

2. Lightning arresters at the electrical, telephone, CATV, etc. service
entrance points.

David

Re: After upgrade, what do you do about "removed" and "obsolete" packages ?

2024-05-30 Thread David Wright

On Wed 29 May 2024 at 18:20:25 (+0200), Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> i wonder why none of the electricians on this list has an anecdote to
> share about dealing with "obsolete" packages after upgrade.
> No triumphs, defeats, or global catastrophes ?

Nowadays I install new releases from scratch, helped by the fact that
for years I've always had two systems on each machine, the current and
the previous. (/home is shared.) That tends to limit cruft as well.

> I wrote:
> > > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.h
> tml#purge-removed-packages
> > > What does "[residual-config]" mean ?

It is odd that the terminology used in the output differs from that
used to provoke it, as in:

  $ apt list '?config-files'
  Listing... Done
  mlocate/oldstable,now 0.26-5 amd64 [residual-config]
  $ 

Both man apt-patterns and aptitude's Search Term Reference ought to
include the bracketed items if there's no intention to unify terms.
Perhaps it's related to the tendency to underdocument the output from
programs.

> The predicate "obsolete" is not the same as "automatically installed".
> I understand that obsolete means having no successor package in the
> upgraded Debian release.

"Obsolete" is an unfortunately loaded word. I think aptitude expresses
it a bit more clearly: "This term matches any installed package which
is not available in any version from any archive. These packages
appear as “Obsolete or Locally Installed” in the visual interface."

  $ apt list '?installed ?obsolete'
  Listing... Done
  xtoolwait/now 1.3-6.2 amd64 [installed,local]
  yt-dlp/now 2024.05.26-1 all [installed,local]
  $ 

The first is from squeeze, the second from trixie (hardly "obsolete"),
both installed with apt-get fullpath (previously I'd have used dpkg -i).

> Is there a way to do a dry run which only tells what would happen if i
> were more courageous ?

Both apt* and dpkg have --no-act --dry-run --simulate to prevent
acting. (apt* has additional synonyms -s --just-print --recon.)
With dpkg, it's safest to place the option first, as it only
protects what follows it in the command line.

Typically you can also not be root to help protect yourself,
as in:

  $ apt-get -s remove libc6 
  NOTE: This is only a simulation!
apt-get needs root privileges for real execution.
Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
  Reading package lists...
  Building dependency tree...
  Reading state information...
  The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
required:
  [ … ]
  Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
  The following packages will be REMOVED:
  [ … ]
  WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
  This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
  [ … ]
  0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1702 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
  [ … ]

Cheers,
David.

Re: Suppression de jacques briquet dcd

2024-05-30 Thread David PINSON


Bonjour,

Qui est le modérateur/administrateur de la liste 
debian-user-french@lists.debian.org ?


Cette personne n'est pas en mesure de le faire par elle-même,
merci de supprimer le directement depuis votre interface de gestion.

Librement vôtre,
David

Le 30/05/2024 à 09:33, jacques.briquet a écrit :





Envoyé de mon mobile

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-29 Thread David Christensen


On 5/29/24 03:36, Roger Price wrote:

On Tue, 28 May 2024, David Christensen wrote:

On 5/28/24 00:28, Roger Price wrote:
I wired my place Cat5. A lot of work, and I regretted it.  I live in 
the hills behind Nice, an area with a lot of lightning.  The overhead 
line to my place took a hit and thanks to the Cat5 conductivity I 
lost equipment.


How do you know that the damage your equipment suffered was due to the 
Cat 5e wiring and not due to the electrical power conductors?


Electrical power to my computers comes through 30mA differential circuit 
breakers to Eaton Ellipse 1600 UPS units. I had no such protection for 
the telephone signal, and I saw flashes at the telephone junction box.  
So I summise that the Cat5 wiring did the damage.


Roger



https://www.eaton.com/sg/en-us/catalog/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/eaton-ellipse-pro-ups.html

https://standards.globalspec.com/std/104626/iec-61643-1


Those UPS's should be able to protect telephone and Ethernet, in 
addition to electrical power.  Have you applied the UPS's to the former two?



David

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-29 Thread David Christensen


On 5/28/24 17:10, John Hasler wrote:

David writes:

AIUI in the USA for residential 120/240V single-phase three-wire service
drops, electrical utilities either run all three phases along the
distribution line or they run two phases.  Running one phase and a neutral
instead of two phases would reduce the power by the square root of 3


Here in rural Wisconsin the 7200V distribution line leaves the
substation as three phases and a grounded neutral.  This eventually
branches out into three single phase lines consisting of a phase and a
grounded neutral.  The pole pigs are connected phase to neutral.



Interesting.  STFW I found an article and a web site that clarifies the 
above arrangements and more:


https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/primary-distribution-circuits


David

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-28 Thread David Christensen


On 5/28/24 12:47, gene heskett wrote:

On 5/28/24 15:29, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Tuesday 28 May 2024 01:49:52 pm Paul M Foster wrote:

I've never see a 3 phase in a house. Common in commercial/industrial,
though.
Residential installations (talking in the US here) typically involve 
*one* transformer tapping a single phase out of the three that are up 
there on the pole.  The secondary is center-tapped,  and it's that 
point which is grounded at the service entrance.  Running 3-phase 
power requires *three* transformers up on the pole,  much more in the 
way of expense if you want that for some reason,  and I don't know of 
anybody that does that.  Even those who are into having some 
nontrivial machinery around seem these days to use a VFD to give them 
multiple phases at the machine,  rather than going through the expense 
of having it run in from the pole...


And here you have it from another CET.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.



AIUI in the USA for residential 120/240V single-phase three-wire service 
drops, electrical utilities either run all three phases along the 
distribution line or they run two phases.  Running one phase and a 
neutral instead of two phases would reduce the power by the square root 
of 3.



Running one phase and using the Earth as the return conductor is very 
dangerous and not modern practice.



David

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-28 Thread David Christensen


On 5/28/24 00:28, Roger Price wrote:
I wired my place Cat5. A lot of work, and I regretted it.  I live in the 
hills behind Nice, an area with a lot of lightning.  The overhead line 
to my place took a hit and thanks to the Cat5 conductivity I lost 
equipment.



If your electrical utility uses pole-mounted distribution lines, 
transformers, service drops, etc., and lightning strikes the 
high-voltage conductors, there will be a surge on the customer service 
conductors that places persons and property at risk.  If lightning jumps 
to the customer service conductors, then the risk to persons and 
property can be extreme.



How do you know that the damage your equipment suffered was due to the 
Cat 5e wiring and not due to the electrical power conductors?



David

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-28 Thread David Wright

On Tue 28 May 2024 at 18:11:48 (+0100), debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> Brad Rogers  wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 May 2024 11:31:29 +0100 "mick.crane" wrote:
> > 
> > >Is there not some system that runs ethernet over the mains wiring or
> > >did I misunderstand it.  
> > 
> > Yes, there is.  I believe you're thinking of powerline adaptors.  They
> > do require everything be on the same circuit, however.
> 
> I have a powerline adapter (Devolo units). There's no such restriction,
> as far as I know. My powerline transmitter and receiver are certainly
> on different circuits.
> 
> > The way electrical wiring is done in the UK often means separate
> > floors are on different circuits, and in larger properties, each
> > floor might be on two (or more) circuits, making it difficult, at
> > best, to get the whole building networked this way.  And that's
> > assuming ring circuits, if everything is on a radial, you're stymied.
> 
> Most houses in the UK are wired to a single phase, so everything is
> connected together at the consumer unit and powerline works just fine.
> If you have a specific problem, then there are DIN rail powerline units
> designed specifically to be mounted in the CU to spread the signal
> better over ALL the circuits.
> 
> If your house has 3-phase wiring, which is unusual in the UK, then you
> may have a problem because powerline signals do need to be on the same
> phase.

I was under the impression that 3-phase to a private residence
contravenes building regulations, as that would make 440V available
for you to electrocute yourself.

This house is radially wired, and has two circuit boxes 100 feet apart
connected by a 100A cable. Powerline connectors work fine between any
points in either half of the house. I have two PL500s (two ports) and
two PL1200s (one port), all Netgear.

I've temporarily connected this computer to a PL500 in a GFIC socket
(kitchen kettle), and backed up my local mailboxes to a computer in
the attic in the other half of the house which is on a PL1200. I get
6MB/s transfer speeds.

Obviously they didn't work between the two halves when the old half's
circuit box was still powered from the easement at the back, and the
new half's 200A box powered from the front street.

On Tue 28 May 2024 at 07:39:39 (-0400), Paul M Foster wrote:
>
> We're moving across the state, and from what I've seen, providers there
> will do something similar-- provide a router and/or modem which has wired
> and wireless capabilities. However, because the house is not prewired for
> internet, we must solve the problem of getting internet to the computers
> and devices in the house. I'm not a fan of wifi, versus hard-wired
> internet. It's not as reliable, and it's slower. Thus, I want cat 5/6 to my
> devices. I could possibly wire the house with cat 5/6 through the attic,
> but I'd rather not. Since the wifi signal will permeate the whole house, it
> seemed more reasonable to plant a device in each room which could pick up
> the wifi, and provide wired internet to that room.

I can't help thinking that you can "plant a device" on each computer
that doesn't have wifi by buying dongles. That is, unless you have
more than one computer in a room and they must be wire-interconnected.

For good coverage upstairs, I'd get a cable from wherever to the attic
and put another router up there. You could feed the signal through the
soffits easily enough.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Touchpad not detected by kernel on ThinkPad X13 Gen5

2024-05-28 Thread David

On Mon, 27 May 2024 at 17:39, Sébastien Villemot  wrote:

> I recently bought a ThinkPad X13 Gen5 (benefiting from the discount
> generously offered by Lenovo to Debian Developers).
>
> The laptop runs Debian Bookworm, and I got almost all the hardware to
> work by using more recent kernel and firmware files (see Debian bug
> reports #1070647, #1070648, #1070650).
>
> However, I still can’t get the touchpad to work. It is apparently not
> recognized by the kernel, since the touchpad does not appear in
> /proc/bus/input/devices, and there is nothing in the kernel log. Note
> that the computer runs a custom build of Linux kernel 6.9.1.
>
> I opened a bug report against the kernel:
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218868
>
> I’m largely ignorant of everything related to input drivers, so ideally
> I would need help to further debug this and provide more useful
> information to the kernel developers.

Hi,

This discussion related to those bugs might interest you:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/04/msg00247.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2024/05/msg00032.html

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-28 Thread David Christensen


On 5/27/24 19:05, Paul M Foster wrote:

I did some more research, and it looks like I must have misstated the
problem.

Let's assume I can't get in the attic and wire the place. Let's 
assume that I've got a wireless router/modem in, say, the garage. 
Let's say I have three rooms with devices I want to connect (one way 
or another) to my router/modem.


It appears there are two solutions. One is wifi extenders, and one
is a mesh network. In both cases, the device sits in the room and 
communicates via wifi to the modem/router. The devices in the room 
connect to the device via ethernet cable.


How does that sound? Any dissenting opinions? Any brand 
recommendations?



On 5/27/24 20:14, Paul M Foster wrote:
Coincidentally, I used to be an electrician too, but we almost never 
ran low voltage except for doorbells.


The house in question appears to have a generous attic, but they've 
blown in two feet of insulation I'd rather not disturb. And that

much insulation makes the headers of walls very hard to find. Also,
I'm not in my 20s anymore, and crawling around in attics is
difficult.

In the house I'm living in now, I did go into the attic years ago 
with cat 5e and wired up the living room.


FWIW, in the house we're buying, I need internet (wired) in the 
living room, bedroom 2 and bedroom 4. Also, it's concrete block 
construction (outer walls).



On 5/27/24 21:50, Paul M Foster wrote:

Well, if I'm gonna run cat 5, I might as well just put a jack in each
room.> No POE needed. The only reason for wifi at all in this case is
so I don't *have*  to run cat 5.



From what I've read, TP-Link gets good reviews.


FYI my previous coax cable suggestion will likely involve MoCA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance


Another idea is power-line communication.  I seem to recall reading that 
an RF choke should be installed on the incoming electrical service to 
prevent interference to/from the neighbors, but STFW I do not see any 
mention of that today:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerline_Ethernet


David

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

On Mon 27 May 2024 at 21:46:24 (+0200), Detlef Vollmann wrote:
> On 5/27/24 20:02, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > > > # apt install -t=bookworm db-util db5.3-util libc-bin libc-dev-bin
> > > > 
> > > > I can never remember exactly what `-t` really does, but I suspect you'll
> > > > need things like
> > > > 
> > > >  apt install libc-bin/bookworm
> > > 
> > > To install a single backported (or other release) package,
> > > apt-get install packagename/releasename
> > > 
> > > and to install a backported package plus dependencies which
> > > are also from that specific release, use
> > > apt-get -t releasename packagename
> > 
> > But that's not the whole story of what `-t` does since the above does
> > not explain why his attempt to use `-t` to downgrade some packages
> > resulted in `apt` saying " is already the newest version".
> 
> Sometimes '-t' works for me, and does what I expect, and sometimes
> it doesn't.

And, of course, what would interest the list is what it says
when it doesn't work.

> So I generelly use now the explicit version:
> 
> apt install libc-bin=2.36-9+deb12u7

Cheers,
David.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

On Mon 27 May 2024 at 22:23:01 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2024 17:09:02 -0400 > Paul M Foster wrote:
> 
> >for internet (WHY aren't new houses wired with Cat5/6/7?). The local
> 
> Cost
> 
> Lack of understanding (in the building trade)

We didn't meet any lack of understanding. Rather, the problem is which
rooms do you connect, and precisely where do you place the wallplates.
In a domestic environment, you're not going to have trunking like in
an office, and you don't want trailing cables. I don't think it's
worth it for speculative housebuilders in the days of wifi.

Cheers,
David.

Re: "Repeaters", etc.

2024-05-27 Thread David Christensen


On 5/27/24 14:09, Paul M Foster wrote:

Folks:

At some point this year, I'm moving into a new house, and it is not wired
for internet (WHY aren't new houses wired with Cat5/6/7?). The local
internet provider will likely provide a wireless router, as they all do. My
idea is to put a device which receives wireless signal from the
router/modem, and has an RJ45 jack in it in each room. So each room would
have one of these, and the devices in it would be hooked to that device via
cat 5e. I hope that's clear.

I'd like to shop for such a device, but I don't know what it's called. Can
anyone provide advice, and possibly preferred brand names? I'd appreciate
it.

Paul



Is the house wired for cable television (RG-6 coaxial cable)?  If so, 
and you choose the right Internet provider, you might be able to get a 
"main box" with 1+ type F connectors, 4 @ RJ-45 Gigabit ports,  Wi-Fi 
access point, etc., and "satellite boxes" with 1+ type F connector, 1+ 
RJ-45 Gigabit ports, Wi-Fi access point, etc..  Ask you cable 
television/ Internet provider.



An alternative to running Ethernet cables inside walls is to run the 
cables on the surface -- e.g. staple to wall along floor molding, drill 
and pull through walls as required, paint to match, etc..  Cat 5e is 
smaller diameter and easier to work with than Cat 6a.  I surface wired 
my house with Cat 5e ~20 years ago and have 1000BASE-T (Gigabit 
Ethernet) switches and NIC's.  All of the cable runs are under ~20 
meters, so I should be able to upgrade to 2.5GBASE-T.



David

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

On Mon 27 May 2024 at 14:02:47 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> > # apt install -t=bookworm db-util db5.3-util libc-bin libc-dev-bin
> >> 
> >> I can never remember exactly what `-t` really does, but I suspect you'll
> >> need things like
> >> 
> >> apt install libc-bin/bookworm
> >
> > To install a single backported (or other release) package, 
> > apt-get install packagename/releasename
> >
> > and to install a backported package plus dependencies which
> > are also from that specific release, use 
> > apt-get -t releasename packagename
> 
> But that's not the whole story of what `-t` does since the above does
> not explain why his attempt to use `-t` to downgrade some packages
> resulted in `apt` saying " is already the newest version".

Neither syntax will specify a newer version for plain "install"
to install or upgrade.

Cheers,
David.

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

On Mon 27 May 2024 at 12:23:41 (-0400), Michael Grant wrote:
> [ … ]
> so I thought I'd try the same process with db5.3, but removing db5.3
> wants to remove a slew of packages:
> 
> # apt reinstall -s libdb5.3/bookworm
> ...
> Selected version '5.3.28+dfsg2-1' (Debian:12.5/stable [amd64]) for 'libdb5.3'
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
> required:
>   acl apache2-data apache2-utils augeas-lenses avahi-daemon clamav-base 
> colord-data git-man gnupg-l10n gnupg-utils gpg-wks-server guile-3.0-libs 
> ipp-usb libapr1 libaprutil1
>   libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 libaugeas0 libavahi-core7 libcolorhug2 libdaemon0 
> libexif12 libgphoto2-l10n libgphoto2-port12 libgudev-1.0-0 libgusb2 
> libhashkit2 libieee1284-3 libldap-common
>   liblua5.3-0 libnspr4 libnss-mdns libnss3 libopendbx1 libopendbx1-sqlite3 
> libopendkim11 libpoppler-glib8 libpoppler126 libpython2-stdlib libpython3.11 
> librbl1 librtmp1 libsane-common
>   libsnmp-base libsnmp40 libssh2-1 libvbr2 mailutils-common python2 
> python2-minimal python3-augeas sane-airscan update-inetd usb.ids
> Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them

So what did it say after that?

> Is there some way to get apt to reinstall a package such that it does
> not think it has to uninstall things which depend on it because it's
> being immediatly reinstalled?

That is the idea behind reinstall, though downgrading is always
a test of its ability to succeed.

Cheers,
David.

Re: moving some packages back to bookworm stable

On Mon 27 May 2024 at 09:56:54 (-0400), Michael Grant wrote:
> What's the best way to get back to running just the bookworm stable
> packages?  I tried what I thought was the obvious way to fix this by
> running:
> 
> # apt install -t=bookworm db-util db5.3-util libc-bin libc-dev-bin 
> libc-devtools libc-l10n libc6 libc6-dev libdb5.3t64 libmilter1.0.1 libsasl2-2 
> libsasl2-modules libsasl2-modules-db libssl3t64 libzstd1 locales 
> openssh-client openssh-server openssh-sftp-server openssl sasl2-bin sendmail 
> sendmail-base sendmail-bin sendmail-cf sensible-mda zstd

As Greg wrote: backups come first.

But in the above, you need reinstall, either as a command, or
as an option --reinstall.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Address 127.0.1.1

2024-05-24 Thread David Wright

On Fri 24 May 2024 at 13:40:38 (-0400), Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:13 AM Paul M Foster  
> wrote:
> >
> > Folks:
> >
> > In my /etc/hosts file, there's a line:
> >
> > 127.0.1.1 yosemite.mars.lan yosemite
> >
> > I think Debian put it there.
> >
> > Later in the file, I've got:
> >
> > 192.168.254.30  yosemite.mars.lan   yosemite
> >
> > So there are two entries for the same (my) machine. Is this a problem?
> > Specifically, could it cause problems with email (Exim4 or OpenSMTPD)?
> 
> 127.0.1.1 is traditionally used for the fully qualified domain name
> (fqdn). So I would expect to see 'yosemite.mars.lan', but not
> 'yosemite'.
> 
> Also, fqdn's end in dot '.' to denote the top of the dns tree. So I
> would expect to see 'yosemite.mars.lan.' (note the trailing dot), and
> not 'yosemite.mars.lan' (note the lack of the trailing dot). What can
> happen with 'yosemite.mars.lan' is, search domains can be added to it.
> So if dhcp says 'isp.com' is a search domain, then your network stack
> might make requests for 'yosemite.mars.lan.isp.com'.

You must have a very unusual hosts file then, on both those counts.

I would expect just the 127.0.1.1 line as written, and I'm going to
guess that the 192.168.254.30 line was added as a misguided attempt
to get LAN mail working. As noted by others, /etc/hosts is not the
correct place for that.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Aliases and OpenSMTPD

2024-05-24 Thread David Wright

On Fri 24 May 2024 at 13:08:56 (-0400), Paul M Foster wrote:
> On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 06:40:09PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 11:45:56AM -0400, Paul M Foster wrote:
> > 
> > > If I send an email directly to pa...@yosemite.mars.lan from buckaroo, it
> > > arrives. That means this config can do what it's designed to do, 
> > > basically.
> > > However, mails to "root" on buckaroo don't get to yosemite. They should,
> > > because my /etc/aliases table looks like this:
> > > 
> > > ---
> > > ...
> > > rootpa...@yosemite.mars.lan
> > > ---
> > 
> > Still out of my depth with OpenSMTPD, but... good ol' aliases,of sendmail
> > lore would have a colon after the "root" up there. The MTAs I know of
> > all have inherited that.
> 
> There is a colon in my aliases file. I just omitted it in the email.

I don't know anything about opensmtpd, but use exim4 where, to send
emails to other hosts on the LAN, AIUI you either need a DNS server
that can resolve the LAN addresses or, instead, a hubbed hosts file.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Will te UUID or blkid of a device change?

2024-05-23 Thread David Wright

On Wed 22 May 2024 at 21:19:35 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> I am booting a lie system from USB-stick. In this live system I am creating 
> an 
> ISO-file, which I then want to dd onto another USB-stick.

Do you want to copy the ISO to a file, a partition, or
the whole device?

> As I am doing this with a script, I want to make sure, that the correct USB-
> stick is used. 
> 
> Thus I can do by using the UUID of the target stick like 

I don't know what you mean by the UUID of a USB stick. Could you
paste a command that you suppose prints it, and its output.

> dd if=/path/to/myfile.iso of=UUID="123456-abcd-"
> 
> This is working.

I've never seen a dd command line like that. Can you paste that
command, from the prompt before it to the one after it.

> Now my question:
> 
> Whenever I dd to the target stick, does the UUID change? I know, the UUID of 
> the partitions are changing, but what is with the device itself?

If you copy a filesystem to a partition, the partition's old
filesystem and its UUID will be destroyed, being replaced by the new
filesystem and its UUID. Note that the target partition's UUID
(PARTUUID) and LABEL (PARTLABEL) are not changed, because they are
properties of the partition as a container, not its contents.

If you copy to a device, the old partition structure, its PARTUUIDs,
filesystems, and filesystem UUIDs will all be destroyed, being
overwritten by whatever was copied.¹

> Or is there a better way? Maybe by using a label? I read also about blkid, 
> but 
> does this change, too when dd to the device?

To identify a device, you could naturally use its id. That is,
unless it's one of those very cheap ones where they all have the
same id: for example, ID_MODEL=UDisk ID_MODEL_ID=1234
ID_SERIAL=General_UDisk-0:0 . I have two like this, and obviously
the computer is unable to distinguish between them except by what
/I/ write onto them.

A device id command line could look something like:

  # dd of=/dev/disk/by-id/JetFlash_Transcend_4GB_JKNB2FYG-0:0  …  …

> At all, is my idea possible at all or are ALL UUIDs changing, whenever I do a 
> dd? If yes, then how can this be prohibited, if any.

In view of all the above, your question is vague and ambiguous.
When you "do a dd", what you are doing is copying. What gets changed
depends on what you copy and where to.

I don't know what you mean by prohibitions, beyond what normal unix
permissions allow and disallow.

¹ I'm ignoring any problems caused by old data remnants on the target device.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Markup in mail messages

2024-05-15 Thread David

	On Wed, 2024-05-15 at 15:57 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On 15/05/2024 03:17, Max Nikulin wrote:
> 
> > On 15/05/2024 02:32, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 08:16:20PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Messages in Markdown in the Windows world? I have never seen it.
> > > 
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The only sensible interpretation I can
> > > come up with for why these asterisks were added is that they're being
> > > placed around text that's supposed to be emphasized/italicized.
> > 
> > 
> > *Bold*, /italics/, and _underlined_ markup is supported by various
> > mailers, e.g. Thunderbird and Gnus. Some render superscripts^1 and
> > subscripts_2 as well.
> > 
> > Backticks (`echo $PATH`) are more specific to markdown. However
> > sometimes I use them not expecting that the message will be rendered as
> > markdown. Just to avoid ambiguity where a piece of code starts and ends.
> >
> 
> When this sort of subject comes up (as it does, every so often), I  
> wonder why `text/markdown` isn't offered as a mime type for sending  
> emails. If you're an MUA and you're going to parse text/plain for  
> markup, then why not offer text/markdown as the body of the message? I  
> know that there have been various attempts to bridge the gap between  
> "text/plain is too basic" and "text/html is too powerful" such as  
> text/enriched and text/rtf, but Markdown seems to be hitting a sweet  
> spot of being easy to write and being widely adopted elsewhere.

Evolution delivers on a markdown option.\
Cheers!

Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login

2024-05-13 Thread David Wright

On Mon 13 May 2024 at 21:18:30 (+0200), Mario Marietto wrote:
> On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 9:05 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> > On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 06:06:37PM +0200, Hans wrote:
> > > Am Montag, 13. Mai 2024, 13:24:17 CEST schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> > > > On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 07:36:07AM +0200, Richard wrote:
> > > > > .profile
> > >
> > > Sorry, dumb question: Depending of the shell, the user is using (let's
> > say, he
> > > will use bash), can the script not be added into ~/.bashrc?
> >
> > The context has been snipped out.  The context for this was "OP is trying
> > to run a command when root logs in".  The method of login was not stated.
> > First responder said ".profile works for every method of login".  I said
> > that this is incorrect: it doesn't work for many GUI login setups.
> >
> > In those same GUI login setups, .bashrc is *also* not read when the
> > user logs in.  None of the shell startup files are read at all.
> >
> > All of this is a tangent to the actual problem, though.
> >
> > > If yes, second dumb question: Coiuld it be ANY script or command?
> > > (also running as non-rootuser, like adding "runuser -u myuser
> > > command_whatever").
> >
> > We're several layers deep into an X-Y problem here.  The *actual* problem
> > is that the system's networking configuration is not correct/complete.
> >
> > The *workaround* is that the OP is logging in and running commands to
> > change the networking configuration temporarily.
> >
> > The question resulting from the workaround (the Y in the X-Y) was "How
> > can I automate these commands that I keep having to type?"
> >
> > The proper question should have been "How can I fix my system's networking
> > configuration permanently?"
> > 
> ---> The context has been snipped out
> 
> nope. Read well what I said on my first post :
> 
> 
> *[Forgot to say that I switched boot target to text with this command :*
> 
> *sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target]*
> 
> What does this mean for you ?

To me, it means just one more change while trying to get your
networking to work. Your OP finished with "It does not work and anyway
it does not seem to be what I want..." and "I suspect that the
solution is easier than what I'm trying to do...". Again, to me,
that suggests that after settling on a better, permanent solution
to your problem, you would roll back the other changes that you
made along the way.

> The context is that I was not using any
> desktop manager.

My understanding of this statement is that "the context" is what
is described in your OP. As you said you "switched boot target to
text", I would assume you originally had a different target, likely
a DM, and that you might revert back to it after solving the problem.

Cheers,
David.

Re: sudo echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward [was: How to run automatically a script as soon root login]


Le 13/05/2024 à 19:45, Stefan Monnier a écrit :

$ su -
Password:
# echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
# ^D
logout
$

I don't need no stinkin' sudo :-)

And if you only have `sudo`, but not the root password, of course:

 % sudo zsh -l
 # echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
 # ^D
 logout
 %




 Stefan



sudo -i will do the job instead of sudo zsh -l

Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login


Le 13/05/2024 à 15:03, Richmond a écrit :

Erwan David  writes:


Le 13/05/2024 à 14:36, Richmond a écrit :

I was experimenting, and found this works:

sudo xterm -e "echo 1 > hello"

It created a file owned by root. But I found I was able to remove it
without being root even though group and world permissions were read
only.



thats because sudo exceutes a xterm as root

then this xterm executes a shell (as root) and this root shell does
the redirection.

Yes, but why did it allow me to delete the file? I was not root
then. Try it.


as said Dan Ritter : the owner of the directory can delete any file 
inside the directory.


(see a directory as a special file containing pairs (name,file place on 
the disk). Deleting a file is just removing the pair from the directory, 
thus it is editing the directory, not the file.


--
Erwan David

Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login


Le 13/05/2024 à 14:36, Richmond a écrit :

I was experimenting, and found this works:

sudo xterm -e "echo 1 > hello"

It created a file owned by root. But I found I was able to remove it
without being root even though group and world permissions were read
only.



thats because sudo exceutes a xterm as root

then this xterm executes a shell (as root) and this root shell does the 
redirection.



--
Erwan David

Re: How to run automatically a script as soon root login


Le 13/05/2024 à 13:48, Mario Marietto a écrit :
--> If they only want this thing to happen when root logs in directly 
on a console or ssh, then .profile may indeed be the correct answer.


Yes,I don't need to run xorg and a desktop environment,since warp-cli 
disconnect and warp-cli connect do not require them.
I wouldn't to login as root automatically,but I've realized that this 
command :


echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward

work only if I'm root. It does not work using sudo. So,in the end I've 
chosen to be root instead of a normal user that can use sudo.





For this it is sufficient to  use /etc/sysctl.conf

You find in the file shipped by debian


# Uncomment the next line to enable packet forwarding for IPv4
#net.ipv4.ip_forward=1

So you just have to uncomment and it will be done at boot time.


(You have the ipv6 equivalent in the same file, if needed)


--
Erwan David

Re: Installing testing on Acer Aspire 315

2024-05-12 Thread David Wright

On Sun 12 May 2024 at 21:10:16 (-0700), Paul Scott wrote:
> On 5/9/2024 1:59 PM, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 May 2024 09:32:32 -0700 Paul Scott wrote:
> > 
> > > The error I'm getting is during "Install base system."  The only way
> > > I knew to save the log was with a camera. Even though I resized the
> > > image this list apparently didn't allow the attachment. How else can
> > > I save the log during install?
> > Installation logs are saved during installation to the target's
> > /var/log/installer/. You can save them to a USB stick after
> > installation is complete, or reboot and find them.
> 
> Is this possible if the base installation failed?  If so, how?

Depends on how it failed. The last three entries in the main menu
are:

  Save debug logs
  Execute a shell
  Abort the installation

You can use the first one and follow its instructions. You can use
the second, and type suitable mount/cp/umount commands to achieve
the same thing.

During the installation, if you get a shell, then

  # more /var/log/syslog

will allow you to pick over the logs, rather like less does, with
the disadvantage that you can't go backwards. If you overshoot the
lines of interest, you have to run the more command again.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [off topic] High Sierra, was: Cindex

2024-05-12 Thread David Wright

On Sun 12 May 2024 at 21:52:05 (+0100), Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2024 22:27:58 +0200 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote:
> 
> >Hah ! Do they think that ISO 9660 is dead enough so they can highjack
> >its birth name ?
> 
> Happens all the time (just saying - not condoning);
> 
> Solid State Drive - referring to HDs without moving parts.
> 
> BITD, Solid State referred to equipment that operates using transistors,
> not valves.  By that definition, *all* HDs are Solid State.

High Sierra is a proper noun, not just a lofty mountain range.
You'd normally only capitalise solid state drive in a heading,
or when defining SSD.

Of course, the company has history; think Apple Corps,
McIntosh Laboratory, etc.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Cindex

2024-05-12 Thread David

On Sun, 2024-05-12 at 08:38 -0600, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2024 17:20:47 +1000  
> David <[curmudg...@telaman.net.au](mailto:curmudg...@telaman.net.au)> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Cindex, the world's premier indexing software, has just gone open
> > source. Might be a good project for someone who has the time.
> > 
> > [https://www.opencindex.com/](https://www.opencindex.com/)
> 
> 
> Are you sure it is open source? I cruised the web site and did not see a  
> license. I did try to download it, but only got as far as the  
> requirement for an email address (which strikes me as rather intrusive  
> for open source), so I don't know whether the download includes source  
> code or a license.

The best thing to do would be to ask them.
Cheers!

Cindex

2024-05-12 Thread David

Hullo,

Cindex, the world's premier indexing software, has just gone open source.
Might be a good project for someone who has the time.

https://www.opencindex.com/

Cheers!

Re: Adding package to Debian Distro

2024-05-09 Thread David Wright

On Thu 09 May 2024 at 16:24:55 (-), Curt wrote:
> On 2024-05-09, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 May 2024 14:09:52 - (UTC) Curt wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think there is a process by which you could add closed-source
> >> IBM software to a bona fide Debian depository, even the non-free one,
> >> which only seems to contain firmware and drivers for closed-sourced
> >> *hardware*.
> >
> > Isn't that what the non-free archive is for?
> > https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive#s-non-free
> 
> Maybe you're right. I can't seem to find a comprehensive list of
> non-free packages,

Would APT's lists do, assuming you have non-free in your sources.list?

  
/var/lib/apt/lists/deb.debian.org_debian_dists_bookworm_non-free_{binary-amd64_Packages,i18n_Translation-en}

(Adjust for source address, distribution, architecture, language, etc.)

> nor anything equivalent to this intricate IBM
> software.

No idea. Cluster Technology is beyond my pay-grade.

> I mean, if non-free means: "anything at all that can be
> reverse-engineered by our software teams," then I've misunderstood its
> meaning and purpose (which is perfectly possible).

Well, no; you could have software that's gratis, open-source,
and redistributable, but if it couldn't be used, say, for
commercial purposes, that would have to go into Debian's
non-free archive rather than the main distribution.
It has nothing to do with reverse engineering per se.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [HS]

2024-05-07 Thread David Martin

je voulais dire niveau tarifs, selon vous, quel est le meilleur choix s'il
vous plait ?


Le mar. 7 mai 2024 à 14:17, David Martin  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Savez vous quelle est la meilleure solution aujourd'hui pour un serveur
> dédié sous Debian Linux ?
>
> --
> david martin
>
>

-- 
david martin

[HS]

2024-05-07 Thread David Martin

Bonjour,

Savez vous quelle est la meilleure solution aujourd'hui pour un serveur
dédié sous Debian Linux ?

-- 
david martin

Re: Lightweight Emacs for container?

2024-05-06 Thread David Wright

On Mon 06 May 2024 at 19:37:39 (+), Dr. Jennifer Nussbaum wrote:
> I usually use Emacs on full-blown Debian distributions, so I don't pay much 
> attention to how large it is. But I'm now starting to
> play around with lightweight LXC containers, obviously headless, and would 
> like to keep using Emacs in these, but just for basic 
> text editing and so forth, I don't need a whole IDE environment. But to my 
> surprise, even emacs-nox is a gigantic installation, 
> that even wants to pull in MySQL, for heaven's sake.
> 
> Is there some package, or a simple workaround, that will allow me to use a 
> basic Emacs without all the cruft?

Are you allowing APT to install Recommends and/or Suggests?

If you haven't yet installed emacs-nox, it might be interesting
to see the list of packages you get listed if you:

 $ apt-get -s --no-install-recommends install emacs-nox

as a /user/.

Or OTOH, if you have installed emacs-nox:

 $ apt-get -s purge 

as a /user/, where  is the names of the mysql packages
you're complaining about.

The only mysql package I have (on bullseye, I'm afraid)
is mysql-common (which is very small), and that shows:

$  apt-get -s purge mysql-common
NOTE: This is only a simulation!
  apt-get needs root privileges for real execution.
  Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
  so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  gsasl-common guile-2.2-libs libgsasl7 libntlm0 mailutils-common
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libmailutils7* libmariadb3* libreoffice-sdbc-mysql* mailutils* 
mariadb-common* mysql-common*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 6 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Purg mailutils [1:3.10-3+b1]
Purg libmailutils7 [1:3.10-3+b1]
Purg libreoffice-sdbc-mysql [1:7.0.4-4+deb11u8]
Purg libmariadb3 [1:10.5.23-0+deb11u1]
Purg mariadb-common [1:10.5.23-0+deb11u1]
Purg mysql-common [5.8+1.0.7]

(I have emacs-gtk installed, rather than -nox.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Bookworm's /etc/mailcap seems to break s-nail

2024-05-06 Thread David Wright

On Mon 06 May 2024 at 14:53:10 (+0200), Jesper Dybdal wrote:

> The package versions involved are:
> * in Bullseye:
>    mailcap/oldstable,now 3.69 all [installed,automatic]
>    s-nail/oldstable,now 14.9.22-1 amd64 [installed]
> * In Bookworm:
>    mailcap/stable,now 3.70+nmu1 all [installed,automatic]
>    j-nail/stable,now 14.9.24-2 amd64 [installed]

 ↑

> Has anyone else seen this?

No.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Installing testing on Acer Aspire 315

2024-05-03 Thread David

On Fri, 3 May 2024 at 06:27, Paul Scott  wrote:
> On 5/1/2024 10:44 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> > Paul Scott (12024-05-01):

>>>I have many installs over many years (only a few per year)..

[...]

>>> I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions,

[...]

> In the mean time, an install seemed to be working but gave an failure
> error which said it would be in the log and visible on virtual terminal
> 4, I didn't know how to get to a virtual in the installer.  Various
> combinations with F4 didn't seem to work.

> Google didn't seem to help.

Hi, there is an official Debian Installation Guide containing a lot
of useful information.

> Can someone tell me how to get to a virtual terminal in the installer?

Due to the amount of detail in the Installation Guide, it can be hard to find
specific answers, so it's advisable to read the whole thing.

Your specific question is covered in a couple of places:

https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/ch06s01.en.html
(section 6.1 paragraph 10)

https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/ch06s03.en.html#di-miscellaneous
(section 6.3.9.2)

Also, this is a bad time to try to install the 'Testing' distribution.
It is currently undergoing major transition and might well contain
many broken/incompatible packages. See:

https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/64bit-time
https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-devel@lists.debian.org/msg380111.html
and ongoing messages in that thread and mailing list

Re: HDD long-term data storage with ensured integrity

2024-05-03 Thread David Christensen


On 5/3/24 04:26, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

On Mon, Apr 08, 2024 at 10:04:01PM +0200, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

For off-site long-term offline archiving, no, I am not using RAID.


Now, as I had to think a bit about ONLINE integrity, I found this
comparison:

https://github.com/t13a/dm-integrity-benchmarks

Contenders are btrfs, zfs, and notably ext4+dm-integrity+dm-raid

I tend to have a biais favoring UNIX layered solutions against
"all-into-one" solutions, and it seems that performance-wise,
it's also quite good.

I wrote this script to convince myself of auto-correction
of the ext4+dm-integrity+dm-raid layered approach.



Thank you for devising a benchmark and posting some data.  :-)


FreeBSD also offers a layered solution.  From the top down:

* UFS2 file system, which supports snapshots (requires partitions with 
soft updates enabled).


* gpart(8) for partitions (volumes).

* graid(8) for redundancy and self-healing.

* geli(8) providers with continuous integrity checking.


AFAICT the FreeBSD stack is mature and production quality, which I find 
very appealing.  But the feature set is not as sophisticated as ZFS, 
which leaves me wanting.  Notably, I have not found a way to replicate 
UFS snapshots directly -- the best I can dream up is synchronizing a 
snapshot to a backup UFS2 filesystem and then taking a snapshot with the 
same name.



I am coming to the conclusion that the long-term survivability of data 
requires several components -- good live file system, good backups, good 
archives, continuous internal integrity checking with self-healing, 
periodic external integrity checking (e.g. mtree(1)) with some form of 
recovery (e.g. manual), etc.. If I get the other pieces right, I could 
go with OpenZFS for the live and backup systems, and worry less about 
data corruption bugs.



David

Re: realpath quoting

2024-05-03 Thread David Christensen


On 5/3/24 04:34, jeremy ardley wrote:


On 3/5/24 19:06, Greg Wooledge wrote:

I would suggest that if you need to use a debugger to track down a bug
in your program, you should use filenames that don't require quoting
when you set up your tests.


1970's style static test cases are not relevant here.

In the real world...  I download files generated by another system that 
are constantly changing content and with names I don't control.


My workflow is to download a new file from a remote source and then run 
my processor over it.


As a necessary consequence I need the fully quoted or escaped file name 
of the new file to feed to the processor/debugger.


I can obviously add an extra step to the process to convert the new file 
name to something acceptable before processing. However, my question was 
how to avoid that extra step by getting fully quoted filenames to process.





So, you are copying and pasting file names via some clipboard?  emacs(1) 
might have a way to put a filter into that process, but I am unaware of 
a similar feature using Xfce and Terminal (my platform).



I have tried renaming files in similar situations, but you will want to 
rename them everywhere if you use rsync(1).



What if you downloaded files to a directory with a well-formed name and 
added a feature to your script to process files that appear in that 
directory?



David

Re: realpath quoting

2024-05-03 Thread David Christensen


On 5/3/24 04:09, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 10:18:03PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

I am unable to find $'string' in the dash(1) man page (?).  As I typically
write "#!/bin/sh" shell scripts, writing such to deal with file names
containing non-printing characters is going to baffle me.


Currently, $' quoting is a bash extension.  It's supposed to appear in
some future edition of POSIX, at which point shells like dash will be
required to adopt it (whenever they get around to it).  For now, though,
you should consider it bash only.



Thank you for the clarification.  :-)


David

Re: time_t transitions in testing

2024-05-03 Thread Erwan David


Le 03/05/2024 à 07:11, songbird a écrit :

songbird wrote:
...

   the on-going time_t transitions may be causing some packages
to be removed for a while as dependencies get adjusted.

   i've currently not been doing full upgrades because there are
many Mate packages that would be removed.

   i decided to see what i could get upgraded tonight and
have done it in layers.

   mainly i wanted to make sure that anything removed was
being replaced and that my desktop would still be usable
and that seems to have happened.

   so far it seems to have gone well but i'm on the last 400
packages (it takes me a bit to download since i'm not on a
super-fast connection).  with how things have gone so far i
don't expect any hiccups.

   i  Debian and testing aka trixie.  :)

   thanks to all in the Debian community who have gotten this
done.


   songbird




Doing regular upgrades, checking what is removed, what is installed, 
waiting when situation is complex leads me to a perfectly working 
trixie. That's a good work from the team doing the transition.


As always in testing, one must be careful (and I woul stringly advise 
against auto-upgrades...), but when a little attention and sometimes 
patience, it works.



--
Erwan David

Re: realpath quoting

2024-05-02 Thread David Christensen


On 5/2/24 19:56, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 03/05/2024 09:19, Greg Wooledge wrote:

I still insist that this is a workaround that should *not*  be used
to try to cancel out quoting bugs in one's shell scripts.


There are still specific cases when quoting is necessary, e.g. ssh 
remote command 



+1


(however you have to be sure concerning shell on the 
remote host).



+1


In BASH printf has %q format. GNU coreutils supports it as well, but 
dash does not, so be careful.



My practice is to start with '#!/bin/sh' and migrate to '#!/usr/bin/env 
perl' as complexity increases.




Likely Jeremy's case does not really require this kind of quoting.



We need to see the full range of file names the OP is trying to deal with.


While "ls -l" output is for humans, realpath is often used in scripts. 
Certainly it should nor return quoted output by default. I am in doubts 
if a dedicated option should be added to realpath.



Thank you for helping me realize that my solution fails to print the 
resolved absolute file name.  Here is the updated solution:


2024-05-02 21:57:56 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch 'name with spaces'

2024-05-02 22:23:01 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch 'name with
> newline'

2024-05-02 22:28:36 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ perl -MString::ShellQuote '-MFile::Spec::Functions qw(rel2abs)' -e 
'print shell_quote(map { rel2abs $_ } @ARGV), "\n"' name*

'/home/dpchrist/name with
newline' '/home/dpchrist/name with spaces'


David

Re: realpath quoting

2024-05-02 Thread David Christensen

On 5/2/24 19:19, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, May 02, 2024 at 07:11:46PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

Perhaps Perl and the module String::ShellQuote ?

2024-05-02 18:50:28 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch "name with spaces"

2024-05-02 18:50:45 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch "name with\nnewline"

You didn't create a name with a newline in it here.  You created a name
with a backslash in it.  If you wanted a newline, you would have to use
the $'...' quoting form (in bash).

 touch $'name with\nnewline'

Thank you for the clarification.

RTFM bash(1):

QUOTING
...
Enclosing  characters  in  double quotes preserves the literal
value of all characters within the quotes, with the exception of
$, `,  \,  and, when history expansion is enabled, !. ...
The backslash retains its special  meaning  only when followed
by one of the following characters: $, `, ", \, or .
...
Words of the form $'string' are treated specially.  The word
expands to string,  with backslash-escaped characters replaced
as specified by the ANSI C standard.

I found another way to obtain a file name containing a newline -- by 
pressing  when typing a double-quoted string literal:

2024-05-02 21:52:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch "foo
> bar"

2024-05-02 21:52:29 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ls -l foo*
-rw-r--r-- 1 dpchrist dpchrist 0 May  2 21:52 'foo'$'\n''bar'

2024-05-02 21:52:36 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ perl -MString::ShellQuote -e 'print shell_quote(@ARGV), "\n"' foo*
'foo
bar'

It also seems to work for single-quoted string literals:

2024-05-02 21:57:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch 'foo
> bar'

2024-05-02 21:57:14 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ls -l foo*
-rw-r--r-- 1 dpchrist dpchrist 0 May  2 21:57 'foo'$'\n''bar'

2024-05-02 21:57:18 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ perl -MString::ShellQuote -e 'print shell_quote(@ARGV), "\n"' foo*
'foo
bar'

I am unable to find $'string' in the dash(1) man page (?).  As I 
typically write "#!/bin/sh" shell scripts, writing such to deal with 
file names containing non-printing characters is going to baffle me.

I still insist that this is a workaround that should *not* be used
to try to cancel out quoting bugs in one's shell scripts.  Just write
the shell scripts correctly in the first place.

I would if I could.

While I am also unable to write Perl scripts correctly in the first 
place, the quoting rules are easier.

David

Re: realpath quoting

2024-05-02 Thread David Christensen


On 5/2/24 15:59, jeremy ardley wrote:
I have a need  to get the full path of a file that has spaces in its 
name to use as a program argument


e.g.

jeremy@client:~$ ls -l name\ with\ spaces
-rw-r--r-- 1 jeremy jeremy 0 May  3 06:51 'name with spaces'
jeremy@client:~$ realpath name\ with\ spaces
/home/jeremy/name with spaces


The spaces without quotes cause problems with subsequent processing.

Can realpath or other utility return a quoted pathname?



Perhaps Perl and the module String::ShellQuote ?

2024-05-02 18:50:28 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch "name with spaces"

2024-05-02 18:50:45 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ touch "name with\nnewline"

2024-05-02 19:06:01 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ perl -MString::ShellQuote -e 'print shell_quote(@ARGV), "\n"' name*
'name with spaces' 'name with\nnewline'


David

Caractères manquantes

2024-05-01 Thread David P.

Bonjour,

J'ai un Dell Latitude 5480,
J'ai remarqué qu'il manquait un touche pour les caractères < >, généralement 
située entre le shift gauche et la lettre W. Vu que je développe avec ces 
caractères, je sèche...

Quels idées donneriez-vous pour pouvoir les utiliser ?
Un tuto serait un plus !
Merci pour votre aide,
Librement vôtre,
David P.


⁣Télécharger BlueMail pour Android

Re: recent Trixie upgrade removed nfs client

2024-04-30 Thread Erwan David

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 03:51:01PM CEST, Gary Dale  
said:
> I'm running Trixie on an AMD64 system.
> 
> Yesterday after doing my usual morning full-upgrade, I rebooted because
> there were a lot of Plasma-related updates. When I logged in, I found I
> wasn't connected to my file server shares. I eventually traced this down to
> a lack of nfs software on my workstation. Reinstalling nfs-client fixed
> this.
> 
> I guess I need to pay closer attention to what autoremove tells me it's
> going to remove, but I'm confused as to why it would remove nfs-client &
> related packages.
> 
> This follows a couple of previous full-upgrades that were having problems.
> The first, a few days ago, was stopped by gdb not being available. However,
> it installed fine manually (apt install gdb). I don't see why apt
> full-upgrade didn't do this automatically as a dependency for whatever
> package needed it.
> 
> The second was blocked by the lack of a lcl-qt5 or lcl-gtk5 library. I can
> see this as legitimate because it looks like you don't need both so the
> package manager lets you decide which you want.
> 
> Not looking for a solution. Just reporting a spate of oddities I've
> encountered lately.
> 

Trixie is undergoing major transitions. You must be careful and check what each 
upgrade will want to uninstall, but it is normal for a "testing" distribution.

In those cases I use the curses interface of aptitude to check which upgrade 
will remove another package that I want, and limit my upgrades to the one that 
do not break my system. Usually some days later it is Ok 
(sometimes week for major transitions)

-- 
Erwan

Re: [HS] Lynx

2024-04-30 Thread Erwan David


Le 30/04/2024 à 12:06, Sébastien NOBILI a écrit :

Le 2024-04-30 11:45, Marc Chantreux a écrit :
Ah non! le chrome est au navigateur web ce que le decorateur est a 
une appli X:

une zone totalement inutile qui t'es pourtant imposé en permanence. en
gros ce que je veux c'est l'équivalent du mode plein écran (ou seule 
la page web

est visible) mais dans 1 fenêtre.


Tu as essayé userChrome.css dans Firefox ? (https://www.userchrome.org/)
J'ai une interface vraiment minimaliste ici : pas de barre d'onglets 
et le plugin

Tab Stash pour gérer (et remiser) mes onglets.

Sébastien



Bien trop complexe pour qui n'est pas un développeur web.

--
Erwan David

Re: [HS] Lynx

2024-04-30 Thread Erwan David


Le 30/04/2024 à 07:55, Alex PADOLY a écrit :


Bonjour à tous,


Quel est l'intérêt aujourd'hui de navigateurs de type Lynx?

Merci pour vos contributions.

Lire cette putain de doc en HTML dans le paquet pour un soft qui doit 
tourner sur un serveur qui ne fait pas tourner de session graphique.


--
Erwan David

Re: [SOLVED] Trouble/bug with initramfs-tools adding encrypted swap partition

2024-04-25 Thread David Wright

On Fri 26 Apr 2024 at 11:27:24 (+0900), John Crawley wrote:
> On 24/04/2024 22:37, David Wright wrote:
> > On Wed 24 Apr 2024 at 14:50:36 (+0200), Richard wrote:
> > > upon gathering my thoughts for answering to you I found the solution to
> > > this: update-initramfs can't handle the case that crypttab ends in the 
> > > line
> > > of the last entry and not in a new line character. I think there either
> > > should be a fix for this or at least a way to handle this case with a much
> > > clearer error message. So I'll probably open a bug report for the package
> > > and the maintainer can decide if that should be forwarded upstream. Such a
> > > rather trivial case shouldn't be resulting in such fatal errors.
> > 
> > Some time at the end of the last century, I remember some startup script
> > that cat'd its configuration file for that very reason. It taught me
> > the habit of always finishing files with a blank comment line:
> > 
> > $ cat /etc/crypttab
> > # 
> > swapLABEL=cryptswap /dev/urandom
> > swap,offset=2048,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=512
> > #
> > $
> > 
> 
> Innocent question: what difference does the comment make vs just ending the 
> file with an empty line?

Nothing for the computer, but visibility for me.

Say you print the file on paper. All you see is white space after
the end of the printed text. Is there an empty line?

Or take, for instance, my example above, and think back to those VDUs,
as we called them, where the firmware added a newline as soon as the
cursor reached the right side of the screen, without waiting to see
whether the next character was itself a newline or not.¹ So using an
empty line approach, you might find yourself looking at a screen like:

Last character position on the screen ---↓

swap LABEL= … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … =512

$ 

Now, is that an empty line before the prompt, or did the terminal
add the extra newline itself because the swap line was exactly
80 characters long?

Editor examples: a windowed emacs buffer has a ≣ decoration at the
extreme left edge after the last line of text, so that you can
distinguish an absence of lines from empty lines. However, a
non-windowed emacs in an xterm has no such decoration: you have to
provoke an "end of buffer" message to be certain where the file ends.
And nano is worse: to know you've reached the bottom, you have to
check the cursor doesn't advance when you pound on the downarrow key.

¹ IIRC, there's a terminfo capability, am, to work around this.

Cheers,
David.

Debian, Postfix, Dovecot, MySQL, and argon2 password hashing scheme?

2024-04-24 Thread David Mehler


Hello,

I have a quick question. Can Debian, and/or it's 
Postfix/Dovecot/MySQL/MariaDB packages support the argon2 password 
hashing scheme? I had a previously-working e-mail setup on a *BSD 
system, utilizing the argon2ID scheme with Dovecot, Postfix, and MySQL. 
Since changing systems to Debian 12.5 I can't send, though checking the 
password with a manual login to Dovecot works fine. I'm wondering if I 
have to migrate the passwords from argon2ID to SHA512-CRYPT?


Thanks.
Dave.

--
Sent from Mozilla Thunderbird 91.13.1

Re: youtube-dl blocked?

2024-04-24 Thread David Wright

On Wed 24 Apr 2024 at 10:50:06 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 10:31:44PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> > The latest version of youtube-dl , makes it too old to try to use now; if
> > you can get it working with youtube, good luck to you.
> > 
> > An unmaintained package, that is three years since last updated, for
> > accessing web sites on the World Wide Web?
> > 
> > H.
> 
> The youtube-dl package in Debian 12 is a transitional package which
> brings in yt-dlp (version 2023.03.04-1 currently).
> 
> Whether that's too old to be usable is a good question, but it's
> definitely not "three years since last updated".

My experience was similar to Bret's, only I'd long got used to not
just taking Debian's proferred version, but checking whether there
was a newer version somewhere around. It was in February 2023 when
I found that even the most modern version of youtube-dl that I could
find would still not work with some sites that had worked before.
That's when I stumbled upon yt-dlp, and realised the world had
quietly moved on.

This was in the days of bullseye, and note that bullseye still has
a /normal/ youtube-dl package, 34 months old, and no yt-dlp package.
For the latter, you need to be running backports (and I have no idea
when yt-dlp entered bullseye-backports).

It kind of reminds me of the mplayer, mpv, and the debian multimedia
site melange of a few years ago, only there there was more discussion
of rival versions (and the perils of using that site) on the list.

Cheers,
David.

Install Debian 12.5 on QNAP TS-210

2024-04-24 Thread David Hörnlund

Hi debian-user,I have an old QNAP TS-210 that would continue to be useful for me. If it is still possible to use it with the latest Debian Stable.There is a webpage at https://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/qnap/ts-219/That have instruktions on how to install Debian 10 on this device.Can I install Debian 10 on the device today still or is that version not available anymore? Are the .Deb packades still on the mirrors? If the files are available will it install or is it blocked somehow?If I follow the steps on the webpage and do what the author suggests:My recommendation is for the third option;  Arnaud Mouiche has created a script that re-configures the partition layout.Arnaud Mouiche's method has been used by many users with success.Will Debian 12 have the necessary packades and cpu architecture support to allow Debian 12 to boot and run. But also receive updates and new software configured for the QNAP TS-210?According to the author Debian dropped the support for this device when support ended for Debian 10. I need to know If it is possible to continue using this device or If I should deposit it in the garbage bin. So it get sent to electronics recycling.RegardsDavid

Re: [SOLVED] Trouble/bug with initramfs-tools adding encrypted swap partition

2024-04-24 Thread David Wright

On Wed 24 Apr 2024 at 14:50:36 (+0200), Richard wrote:
> upon gathering my thoughts for answering to you I found the solution to
> this: update-initramfs can't handle the case that crypttab ends in the line
> of the last entry and not in a new line character. I think there either
> should be a fix for this or at least a way to handle this case with a much
> clearer error message. So I'll probably open a bug report for the package
> and the maintainer can decide if that should be forwarded upstream. Such a
> rather trivial case shouldn't be resulting in such fatal errors.

Some time at the end of the last century, I remember some startup script
that cat'd its configuration file for that very reason. It taught me
the habit of always finishing files with a blank comment line:

$ cat /etc/crypttab 
# 
swapLABEL=cryptswap /dev/urandom
swap,offset=2048,cipher=aes-xts-plain64,size=512
#
$ 

Cheers,
David.

Re: youtube-dl blocked?

2024-04-24 Thread David Wright

On Wed 24 Apr 2024 at 06:58:02 (+0200), Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 23.04.2024 um 23:15:17 Uhr schrieb Markos:
> 
> > The site https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html
> > 
> > is blocked?
> 
> Please specify that more precisely.
> Run
> 
> host ytdl-org.github.io

$ host ytdl-org.github.io
ytdl-org.github.io has address 185.199.111.153
ytdl-org.github.io has address 185.199.108.153
ytdl-org.github.io has address 185.199.109.153
ytdl-org.github.io has address 185.199.110.153
ytdl-org.github.io has IPv6 address 2606:50c0:8002::153
ytdl-org.github.io has IPv6 address 2606:50c0:8003::153
ytdl-org.github.io has IPv6 address 2606:50c0:8000::153
ytdl-org.github.io has IPv6 address 2606:50c0:8001::153
$ 

$ wget https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html
--2024-04-24 07:59:25--  https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html
Resolving ytdl-org.github.io (ytdl-org.github.io)... 185.199.109.153, 
185.199.110.153, 185.199.111.153, ...
Connecting to ytdl-org.github.io (ytdl-org.github.io)|185.199.109.153|:443... 
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 3834 (3.7K) [text/html]
Saving to: ‘download.html’

download.html   100%[=>]   
3.74K  --.-KB/sin 0s  

2024-04-24 07:59:25 (18.4 MB/s) - ‘download.html’ saved [3834/3834]

$ ls -Glg download.html 
-rw-r- 1 3834 Aug  1  2023 download.html
$ 

From the middle of the US.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] youtube-dl blocked?

2024-04-23 Thread David Wright

On Tue 23 Apr 2024 at 23:19:48 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > The site https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html
> > is blocked?
> 
> Now that you got answers, a question: what made you post this here?
> AFAICT this has nothing to do with Debian (if you use Debian, you'd
> more naturally install that tool from `apt` which won't fetch it from
> Github).

Possibly they just searched for youtube-dl on google, and got
something like what I saw in the topright corner:

Cheers,
David.

Re: youtube-dl blocked?

2024-04-23 Thread David Wright

On Tue 23 Apr 2024 at 23:15:17 (-0300), Markos wrote:
> The site https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html
> 
> is blocked?
> 
> Is there any other alternative to download videos from Youtube in
> Linux command line?

That site works here, but I don't think that's important. It appears
to offer youtube-dl 2021.12.17, which is /ancient/.

You'd be better off just installing Debian's yt-dlp in the usual
manner. And you can do better than that at the moment, by using
the backports version, 2024.04.09-1~bpo12+1.

If the backports version falls behind, you can usually install the
version from unstable (now trixie), because yt-dlp's dependencies
are all unversioned. The medium term disadvantage of this approach
is that it won't be upgraded automatically when a new version
appears: you have to keep an eye out.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debian@IBMx3550

2024-04-23 Thread David Christensen


On 4/23/24 14:35, Greg wrote:

Hi there,

I got refurb IBM x3550 M3 7944 server and I'm a bit lost. Is there any 
Linux/Debian software (some gui would be nice) to monitor fan speed, 
temperatures, voltages, disks.. ?


Thanks in advance for any help
Greg




If you installed the Xfce desktop, add the "Sensor" plug-in/ applet to 
the Panel.  Panel can display various temperatures, fan speeds, etc..



Note that you may to set the SUID bit on /usr/sbin/hddtemp for disk 
drive readings to be available:


# chmod u+s /usr/sbin/hddtemp


David

Re: Subject: Glitchy sound in Steam games after hard drive upgrade

2024-04-23 Thread David Christensen


On 4/23/24 09:02, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Charlie Gibbs  wrote:

On 2024-04-22 16:50, Jeffrey Walton wrote:


What are the old and new hard drive model numbers and specs?


The old drive is a Western Digital WD5000YS (500GB SATA).
The new drive is a Western Digital Red, WF40EFPX (4TB SATA).


According to my searches, there's no such disk as a WF40EFPX. Are you
sure that's what it is? If by any chance it is a WD40EFRX then that is
certainly slower than your old drive, so may cause some problems as
suggested.



I doubt the new drive is slower than the old drive:

- https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=WDC%20WD5000YS

WDC WD5000YS  425

- https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=WDC%20WD40EFRX

WDC WD40EFRX1,943


David

Re: Subject: Glitchy sound in Steam games after hard drive upgrade

2024-04-23 Thread David Christensen

On 4/22/24 21:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2024-04-22 16:50, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

What are the old and new hard drive model numbers and specs?

The old drive is a Western Digital WD5000YS (500GB SATA).

https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-re2-wd5000ys-500gb/p/N82E16822136032?Item=N82E16822136032

The new drive is a Western Digital Red, WF40EFPX (4TB SATA).

https://www.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-red-plus-sata-3-5-hdd?sku=WD40EFPX

Both drives are spinning rust. I'm upgrading for the increased
capacity, i.e. to store more MP3s and videos.

Many thanks to all who have replied. When my schedule permits me to
continue experimenting, I'm going to try copying /etc from the old drive
to the new one. I've already learned how _not_ to do this:

Boot from the new drive
$ su root
# cd /
# mv etc etc.ori
# rsync -av /mnt/backup/etc .

The second line makes the system fall over and makes logins impossible.
It took a boot from the rescue CD to undo the damage, which fortunately
was easy since the deadly step at least succeeded in backing up /etc.

Next time I'll do it while booted from the old drive.

Copying an entire /etc directory from one machine to another requires a
highly controlled environment and lot of engineering. I have always
migrated /etc settings from one OS instance to another OS instance by
hand, one service/ configuration file at a time.

Can you leave the 500 GB HDD operational and use the 4 TB HDD for data?

David

Re: Strange New Installation Behavior

2024-04-22 Thread David Christensen


On 4/22/24 06:00, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
I am running Bookworm and cleaned up a couple of files too many 
resulting in a messed up Xfce Desktop. I decided that this would be a

 good time to reinstall the Bullseye.

I made a backup of my /home/comp directory using Deja-dup.

I downloaded and ran the 512 check sum on a copy of 
Debian-12.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso and ran the Graphical Install mode on

the 1.0 TD SSD on my Computer. The installation went smoothly without
any warning or error messages.

I logged in as root to set up the Desktop and, much to my surprise, 
found that my previous Desktop configuration was still there!!???

This was also the case when I logged in user!!!???

I have been using computers in my work since the 1960, the era of the
 Hollerith Card and tape drives and Linux since early days of
Slackware and the Red Hat Mother's Day Edition. Now I am not a
computer expert but a Research Chemist.  I have installed Linux OS's
many times and consider Linux my primary computational platform. I
have never encountered the situation and have no ideas as to what is
going on.

I have been runnind Debian since Etch.

I would appreciate some insight into what might be going on.

Thanks in advance.

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. https://insilicochemistry.net (614)312-7528
(c) Skype: smolnar1



On 4/22/24 09:34, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:

I did not want to revert to Bullseye, but to reinstall to Bookworm.


I suggest that you buy a good 16 GB USB flash drive and install Debian 
12 with Xfce onto it.  Having a working live USB stick is very useful 
for low-level disk drive chores such as examining, backing up, testing, 
repairing, restoring, wiping, etc..  Use it to:


1.  Ensure that you have a good backup of your 1 TB SSD.

2.  Make additional backups or archives of all or part of your 1 TB SSD. 
 Note the mantra: "Data does not exist unless it exists in three places".


3.  Wipe the SSD so that the Debian installer will see a blank disk and 
respond accordingly when you later install Debian onto the SSD.



Regarding copying a home directory from one OS installation to another 
OS installation, please see my comments on another thread:


https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00336.html


Once you have logged in to your new account on your fresh install, I 
suggest that you restore your /home/comp backup to a subdirectory and 
manually copy/ move/ edit/ merge files and directories from the restore 
subdirectory into your fresh home directory.  Be very careful not to 
damage or delete anything needed by your fresh desktop or applications.



David

Re: [HS] choix imprimante

2024-04-22 Thread David PINSON




Le 22/04/2024 à 13:45, hamster a écrit :

Le 22/04/2024 à 12:19, David PINSON a écrit :
pour les cartouches d'encre, je les achète en cartouches réutilisées 
et contrôlées.


Tu les achetes où ?


https://www.inkjet.fr/

Re: Subject: Glitchy sound in Steam games after hard drive upgrade

2024-04-22 Thread David Christensen


On 4/21/24 22:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

I should probably be posting this to the Steam forums, but
most of the denizens there are Windows people so I might be
better off letting you Debian gurus have a go at it first.

TL;DR: Copying an existing /home into a fresh Debian installation
causes audio in Steam games to glitch - but all other sound is OK.

Full description:

I have a machine in the living room that stores MP3s and videos
and serves them to other machines on our network as well as playing
them locally on our TV's big screen.  I also play a few Steam games
(e.g. Portal) on it.  It's a 2007-vintage machine, but it has 8GB
of RAM and enough CPU power to do the job, and runs the latest
version of Bookworm.

Recently I decided to upgrade its storage capacity, and replaced
its 500GB hard drive (which was pretty large at the time I bought
it) with a 4TB drive.  I did an install from scratch using a
network install CD, then copied my /home partition (using rsync)
from the old drive.  Everything works great with one exception:
when I fire up Portal the sound gets glitches about once a second.
This only happens with Steam games; I can play MP3s and videos
with mpv and the sound is perfect, as it is when watching YouTube
videos.  If I swap the old drive back in everything is fine.

Obviously my Steam programs and configuration files are in my
home directory, since the updated system comes up icons and all
without re-installing Steam, and can find everything it needs to
run the games.  But perhaps there are a few files somewhere else
(/usr?) containing information critical to audio for Steam.

Any ideas?

(Side question: is this an acceptable way to upgrade a hard drive?)



Copying a home directory from one OS instance to another OS instance 
sounds risky, especially as I run various OS's.  I have several 
instances of Debian 11, and would not consider them to be identical 
enough to try it.  I only touch the content I create or have learned how 
to manage.



I put my OS on a small SSD and the vast majority of my data on HDD RAID 
in a file server.



As I am the only user on my Debian daily driver, I leave the /home 
directory on the root file system and keep as little as possible in it.



I mount the file server shares under /mnt, and create symlinks in my 
home directory that point into the mounted file system.



I use CVS for project working directories.  To migrate to a new home 
directory, I check in the projects in the old home and check out the 
project in the new home.



I use Firefox and its sync feature.  To migrate to a new home, I start 
Firefox, log in, wait for my settings to sync, and then check all of the 
settings by hand.



I use Thunderbird.  To migrate to a new home, I create a tarball of my 
Thunderbird profile directory on the old machine, expand the tarball on 
the new machine, and configure Thunderbird to use that profile.



I do not attempt to migrate any of the various home directory 
configuration directories; I let the installer and/or package manager 
create them, and let the desktop, apps, etc., manage them.



David

Re: [HS] choix imprimante

2024-04-22 Thread David PINSON


Bonjour,

Tout dépend de l'utilisation régulière chez soi,

De mon côté, j'ai une imprimante Laser récupérée d'une mise en réforme 
et d'un multifonction couleur à jet d'encre trouvé entre deux containers 
de poubelle et réparé facilement (un jouet d'enfant en mousse s'était 
coincé dans les rouleaux...), les deux de marque HP et fonctionnent très 
bien !


Des toners laser ont été récupérés et ne sont pas limités dans le temps 
si stockés dans un environnement sec et pour les cartouches d'encre, je 
les achète en cartouches réutilisées et contrôlées.


Tous mes PC ont détecté et installé facilement les deux imprimantes

Comme on a toujours besoin d'un scanner, cette dernière me convient très 
bien.


Information supplémentaire : j'utilise NAPS2 pour les opérations de scan 
(https://www.naps2.com/).


Pour ton 3e point: le risque est de retrouver les cartouches baveuses...

Voilà pour mon retour d'expérience,

Librement vôtre,

David P.


Le 22/04/2024 à 11:59, ajh-valmer a écrit :

Bonjour,
Comme vous le savez, ils existent 3 types d'imprimantes :
1) Jet d'encre cartouches (ça sèche si non-utilisation prolongée),
2) Laser (chère si couleurs),
3) Réservoir d'encre dite "Tank" (remplissage par bouteilles encre) :
Avez vous une expérience, donc un avis sur le choix 3 ?
Est-ce que l'encre peut sécher dans la tête d'impression
comme celles à jet d'encre, autres inconvénients... ?

Merci d'avance, bonne journée.

ajh. Valmer

Re: Debian non-free-firmware policy making OS misleading and Free Software unfriendly

2024-04-21 Thread David Wright

On Sun 21 Apr 2024 at 21:59:21 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Do you have any suggestion as to which list would be better to contact?
> > Original: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/04/msg00324.html
> 
> Maybe `reportbug debian-installer`?

but perhaps without all the deception crap, unless you really mean
to impugn the developers' motives.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared

2024-04-20 Thread David Christensen


On 4/14/24 05:29, David Christensen wrote:

debian-user:

I have a Dell Latitude E6520:

2024-04-14 04:28:39 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a
11.9
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-28-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.209-2 (2024-01-31) 
x86_64 GNU/Linux


2024-04-14 04:34:40 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ dpkg-query -l xfce4 network-manager network-manager-gnome
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend

|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name  Version  Architecture Description
+++-=---=
ii  network-manager   1.30.6-1+deb11u1 amd64    network 
management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
ii  network-manager-gnome 1.20.0-3 amd64    network 
management framework (GNOME frontend)
ii  xfce4 4.16 all  Meta-package for 
the Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment



I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. 
Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!).



I compared the problem machine against another with a working Xfce panel 
Network Manager applet, and discovered that the Status Tray Plugin was 
missing.  I may have deleted Status Tray Plugin while cleaning, but did 
not notice the change immediately (?).



So, I added Status Tray Plugin and now Network Manager has returned.


David

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared

2024-04-19 Thread David Christensen


On 4/19/24 00:16, Florent Rougon wrote:

Another thing: did you look into ~/.xsession-errors?
(Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.)



Please see attached copy of ~/.xsession-errors, taken immediately after 
system restart and login.



"nm-applet" does not appear in .xsession-errors, but there are plenty of 
other warnings and error messages.  Perhaps the failure of nm-applet is 
a symptom of a more fundamental failure (?).




More involved: if you can't find any trace of the applet doing
something, maybe rebuilding the package after adding a few fprintf()
calls would help.



I think it is time for a bug report.


David


.xsession-errors-20240419-121605.gz
Description: application/gzip

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/18/24 09:46, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Thu 18/04/2024 at 11:05, David Christensen  wrote:


Move aside the ~/.config/xfce4 directory:
...
Restart -- screen with wallpaper alone.
...


Hi David,

Starting from Mate DE only and some old (bookworm) XFCE config files, if I:

$ sudo apt install task-xfce-desktop

then log out and into XFCE, I get an XFCE desktop with wallpaper, desktop 
icons, panel, main menu, launchers, window buttons, notification area.

Then I:

$ mv ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old

then logout and into XFCE again, I get wallpaper, desktop icons, panel, main 
menu, window buttons, notification area, but only non-functional launcher 
placeholder icons.

$ diff ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old
Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/desktop and 
/home/user/.config/xfce4.old/desktop
Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: panel   }
Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: src }  <-- these are 
subdirectories
Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: terminal}
Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfconf and 
/home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfconf
Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfwm4 and 
/home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfwm4
$

(though there probably wasn't much there to start with)

I'm not sure what would cause this difference in behaviour (though wonder if 
this might suggest more amiss with your XFCE installation) and I will watch 
this thread with interest.

Also I just "rediscovered" that reinstalling task-xfce-desktop doesn't 
reinstall those packages which it brings in in the first place, though I'm sure you knew 
that :)

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.



Thanks for the suggestions.  We have more information now.  :-)


David

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/18/24 07:28, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 18/04/2024 17:05, David Christensen wrote:

$ mv .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/ .config/xfce4

Restart -- back to Xfce panel with no Network Manager.


Try to create a new system user and log in. Is nm-applet present?



Logging in using another previously working account produces the same 
result -- Xfce Panel displays Notification Plugin (bell icon), but no 
Network Manager icon.



Creating a new account and logging in produces the same result.


David

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/18/24 05:34, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 4/18/24 05:27, David Christensen wrote:

On 4/17/24 12:37, Richmond wrote:

What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? maybe it doesn't have
permission to execute, or the process which starts it doesn't have
permission.



2024-04-18 02:24:20 root@laalaa ~
# ls -l `which nm-applet`
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 250784 Feb 27  2021 /usr/bin/nm-applet


I do not know what binary starts nm-applet, but here is a WAG:

2024-04-18 02:27:13 root@laalaa ~
# ll -l `which xfce4-panel`
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 363328 2021-02-27 08:29:44 /usr/bin/xfce4-panel


Can PPID tell you?



Yes.  xfce4-session is the parent of nm-applet:

2024-04-18 10:27:32 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ps -Ao "%p %P %a" | grep nm-applet
   15301379 nm-applet
   39373865 grep nm-applet

2024-04-18 10:27:44 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ps -Ao "%p %P %a" | grep 1379
   13791344 xfce4-session
   14211379 /usr/bin/ssh-agent x-session-manager
   14581379 xfwm4 --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 
2d1bdc0a5-06f2-4835-944e-7e402203bd9f
   14711379 xfsettingsd --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 
29896f657-477c-498a-8156-db9d51f74bcf
   14971379 xfce4-panel --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 
23fd394e3-a4ee-485b-b43c-38bf845d6699
   15011379 xfdesktop --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 
2c913de99-acac-4d70-b6e9-8eda44b6f6da
   15061379 xfce4-power-manager --restart --sm-client-id 
24cebdb39-bdc2-496f-aab0-7b11397b48d3

   15131379 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/notifyd/xfce4-notifyd
   15151379 light-locker
   15161379 /usr/bin/python3 /usr/share/system-config-printer/applet.py
   15171379 
/usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1

   15241379 xiccd
   15301379 nm-applet
   39403865 grep 1379

2024-04-18 10:29:20 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ls -l `which xfce4-session`
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 260496 Dec 23  2020 /usr/bin/xfce4-session


David

RE: Ré-installation Debian sur disque chiffré

2024-04-18 Thread David BERCOT


Bonjour Michel (et les autres),

Je viens donc d'installer Debian sur un ordinateur de test avec du LVM 
chiffré.
Dans un second temps, je tente une ré-installation en essayant de 
conserver l'existant.

J'ai fait plusieurs tests comme tu l'indiques... sans succès.

Aurais-tu plus de détails sur la procédure que tu évoques ?

Merci d'avance.

David.

 Message d'origine 
Objet : Ré-installation Debian sur disque chiffré
Date : dimanche 24 mars 2024 à 08:31 UTC+1
De : David BERCOT 
Pour : debian-user-french@lists.debian.org

Bonjour Michel,

 Message d'origine 
Objet : Ré-installation Debian sur disque chiffré
Date : samedi 23 mars 2024 à 17:26 UTC+1
De : Michel Verdier 
Pour : debian-user-french@lists.debian.org

Le 23 mars 2024 David BERCOT a écrit :

Si je lance l'installateur Debian, au moment du partitionnement des 
disques,
je n'arrive pas à trouver une option qui me dise (en résumé) : 
"reprise d'un
disque préalablement chiffré" [au moins la partition /home] -> et 
saisie de la

passphrase ad hoc.


Crypté avec luks ou autre ?


Oui, avec LUKS.


En mode expert il suffit de sauter le partitionnement, ce que tu dois
faire si tu veux réutiliser tes partitions. Ensuite l'installateur
détecte les partitions luks, demande les mots de passe, lance luksopen,
puis demande les filesystems à monter.


Je t'avoue que je n'ai jamais tenté cette approche mais je vais le faire 
dès que possible.

Merci pour cette solution.

David.

Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/17/24 12:07, Charles Curley wrote:

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:41:24 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:


My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable
to find if and where any error message is reported.


My instance of nm-applet does run, and I see this as part of the boot
process:

root@hawk:~# journalctl -b | grep nm-app
Apr 15 11:27:42 hawk NetworkManager[1354]:   [1713202062.7737] 
agent-manager: agent[108f011a1115d508,:1.131/org.freedesktop.nm-applet/1000]: agent 
registered
root@hawk:~#

I suspect that if nm-applet doesn't start, you won't see any output
from that command.



2024-04-18 03:07:20 root@laalaa ~
# journalctl -b | grep nm-app
Apr 18 03:01:39 laalaa NetworkManager[833]:   [1713434499.3660] 
agent-manager: 
agent[2a08cda7fa35849b,:1.48/org.freedesktop.nm-applet/13250]: agent 
registered



David

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/17/24 19:41, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Wed 17/04/2024 at 19:41, David Christensen  wrote:

On 4/17/24 03:47, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Wed 17/04/2024 at 09:18, David Christensen  wrote:

On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote:

On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen  wrote:

On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote:

On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote:
...
I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years.
Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!).
...


There is apparently a long history of nm-applet/XFCE panel-related issues (and 
not many great answers), as evidenced by such as

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161998

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=6105

https://superuser.com/questions/900490/networkmanager-icon-on-notification-area-is-not-present



I tried:

1.  Remove Notification applet, restart, add Notification applet, no 
Network Manager, restart -- no Network Manager.


2.  Look at /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf

2024-04-18 02:40:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=false

Change it to:

2024-04-18 02:43:35 root@laalaa ~
# cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=true

Restart -- no Network Manager.

Verify /etc//NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf:

2024-04-18 02:45:05 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
[main]
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile

[ifupdown]
managed=true



If you get ps output like this directly after a reboot:


$ ps aux | grep nm-applet
dpchrist1518  0.1  0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl   16:06   0:00 nm-applet



2024-04-18 02:45:10 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ps aux | grep nm-applet
dpchrist1526  0.1  0.2 426484 35256 ?Sl   02:44   0:00 nm-applet
dpchrist1869  0.0  0.0   3240   712 pts/0S+   02:47   0:00 grep 
nm-applet




then I don't think the issue is with the starting/running of nm-applet itself, 
but rather some issue with the notification plugin, which I'm not sure how to 
begin troubleshooting.  I reluctantly abandoned XFCE partly due to panel 
instability some time ago.

The advice in the final link to rm -rf  ~/.config/xfce* might be a bit extreme, 
but I might try renaming it to force a rebuild on next login, and possibly 
reinstall task-xfce-desktop (or selected packages)



Move aside the ~/.config/xfce4 directory:


2024-04-18 02:50:20 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ls -ld .config/xfce4/
drwxr-xr-x 8 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 00:45 .config/xfce4/

2024-04-18 02:50:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ mv .config/xfce4/ .config/xfce4-20240418-180045


Restart -- screen with wallpaper alone.


Right-click on desktop -> Applications -> Settings -> Panel brings up 
the Panel Preferences application.  The Items tab shows my previous 
settings.  Fumbling around, I am unable to get that panel to display 
(?).  If I create a new panel, I am unable to get it to display (?).



Open a Terminal and look if Xfce created a new configuration directory:

2024-04-18 02:57:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ ls -ld .config/xfce4*
drwxr-xr-x 7 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 02:57 .config/xfce4
drwxr-xr-x 8 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 00:45 
.config/xfce4-20240418-180045



Yes, it did.  Compare the old directory to the new directory:

2024-04-18 02:58:11 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ diff -rq .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/ .config/xfce4
diff: .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop/icons.screen.latest.rc: No 
such file or directory

Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1008x725.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1424x857.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1664x1007.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1904x1037.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1904x1064.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-2928x1037.rc
Files .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop/icons.screen0-3824x1037.rc 
and .config/xfce4/desktop/icons.screen0-3824x1037.rc differ

Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: help.rc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-15
Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-17
Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-18
Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-19
Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-20
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-24
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-28
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-7
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: src
Files .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/terminal/accels.scm and 
.config/xfce4/terminal/accels.scm differ

Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/terminal: terminalrc
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: xfce4-screenshooter
Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-18004

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared


On 4/17/24 13:56, e...@gmx.us wrote:

On 4/17/24 15:37, Richmond wrote:

David Christensen writes:

My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to
find if and where any error message is reported.


What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary?


And is its filesystem mounted with noexec?



2024-04-18 02:27:18 root@laalaa ~
# df `which nm-applet`
Filesystem 1M-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/sdb3_crypt12084M 8927M 2522M  78% /

2024-04-18 02:28:57 root@laalaa ~
# mount | grep sdb3
/dev/mapper/sdb3_crypt on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)


David

Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared