Re: Editing /etc/apt/sources.list breaks update

[Fungi4All]

> From: juha.mannine...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Hello Debian people! My first post here.
>
> I have installed Debian 9.1.0 buster for i386 using the small netinst
> image. Works well. I tested different desktops, too.

Isn't Debian 9.1 Stretch?

> I wanted to use the testing branch also after buster goes stable.

Isn't this Spring/Summer 2019?

> According to this page:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
> it is possible by editing /etc/apt/sources.list.
> I followed the instructions and changed "buster" to "testing" and
> commented out security update lines.

Isn't Buster the same as testing for the next 2 years, give and take
a few months?  So there will be no change.  Have I missed
something?

> It now looks like this :
> deb http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> deb-src http://ftp.fi.debian.org/debian/ testing main
> # deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ testing contrib main
> # deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing/updates main

Who changed stretch to buster?  Why change buster to testing?
I keep reading the responses wondering why the rest are responding
the way they do.  Like something obvious was overseen!

PS  I still have a VHS of Juha Kankunen and his Lancia 037!
It is the first thing that flashes in my head when I hear Juha.

Re: Installing the installer (don't read if you are eating a meal)

[Fungi4All]

> From: scdbac...@gmx.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Hi,
>
> Fungi4All wrote:
>> "refracta" [...] The most fascinating piece of software
>> or should I say family of sftw. since the time of space invaders.
>
> Can it boot a Debian installation ISO from a disk partition and let
> it behave as if it had booted directly from a whole disk ?

As far as I can tell it can make any installation into an iso and the iso
can install whatever you configure the live into a partition.  Then there
is a third newer hybrid that I still have not tried myself which I think you
can manipulate your live system in whatever way and it can create
a bootable usb stick from that configuration.  Now if I ask back why
"you" would want to boot an iso from a partition may induce an
endless loop with richard O. as the question of the meaning of life.
So I will refrain from inducing such a loop.

After a couple of runs I don't want to hear of another backup system
of the system, or funky scripts for making a live system, or anything
relative.  It does have a limitation as to the size of the system you are
making a live, which I understand is an internal restriction of the
ISO9660 for what size can an iso be.

>> What is also absurd is that Thomas is involved in this conversation
>> while refracta is heavily relying on xorisso.
>
> They must be doing this behind my back. :))

At least now you know ;)
It is very secretive too, it says xorisso all over the place half way before
it is done running.  Then the boring time of packing it all in a small image
begins, which is the other half.

All this study of how live systems work and how live images can be
built, and how a live system can be installed as a system in a partition,
all down the drain.  Just click on refracta and you don't have to know
any of the above.

So my short answer to the question is why would you ever ask such
a question when YOU KNOW there exists a thing as REfracta.

Now I have to go back to hard work making my own desitribution
called Chevy-Corvair-Linux or CCL.  It is simple, just use refracta.
It includes my own version of systemd.  You click on it and this
live image of Debian Wheezy comes up with a steamy stack of
smelly turd on top of it.  And the steam turns into a "feature".

I apologize if you were eating lunch or dinner and I mentioned
systemd.

Have a splendid day,
Rust-fungus never sleeps

Re: Installing the installer

[Fungi4All]

> From: scdbac...@gmx.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Hi,
>
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> > > xorriso -osirrox on ... -extract / /media/richard/netinst1
>
> i wrote:
>> > (This is just one way to copy the directory tree out of the ISO into
>> > a disk tree. xorriso packs them up and packs them out.)
>
>> I assumed that using xorriso on both ends would give me a "byte for byte"
>> copy.
>
> No, that"s the job of "dd" or similar copy programs.
>
>> > > 1. Grub2 will recognize it as a legit OS.
>
> You will have to teach it by configuration file entries like described in
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2/Chainloading
> https://superuser.com/questions/154133/grub-boot-from-iso
> I wrote some remarks about that to Ethan Andrews in
> "Re: How do I boot a Debian 9.1.0 amd64 iso from GRUB?"
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/09/msg00516.html
>
> Your mileage may vary when the booted kernel expands its realm from
> the initial RAM-disk to the ISO filesystem in the partition. It depends
> much on the software in the initial RAM-disk and in the ISO whether
> this will work.
>
> Pascal Hambourg mentions problems with the initial RAM-disk content in
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/09/msg00566.html
>
> Felix Miata pointed to the naked kernels and initial RAM-disk images
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/09/msg00568.html
> I guess he means things like
> http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-amd64/current/images/hd-media/
> sparsely described in
> http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-amd64/current/images/MANIFEST
>
>> > > 2. if the partition is on a USB flash drive it will boot normally
>> > > on suitable hardware.
>
> If you do not want to modify the installed GRUB on the hard disk on that
> system, then you will need a GRUB on that USB stick which gets preferred
> by the firmware over the GRUB on hard disk, and then does the booting
> of the operating system in the ISO.
>
>> > > 3. all directories and files shall be modifiable.
>
>> > But actually you want a runnable normal GNU/Linux.
>
>> I want a "thingy/dodad/whatsit" that will install Debian to another
>> location, be it device or partition.
>
> If you do not want to unpack the ISO then you cannot directly modify files.
> (I assume ISO 9660 multi-session is not what you intend, but rather
> normal filesystem operations from the running operating system.)
>
> So you would need a separate writable filesystem and overlay it over
> the ISO when the operating system is running. But a Debian installation
> ISO is not prepared for doing that out of the box, afaik.
> So you would have to make your own ISO which has such capabilities.
>
> The hard part is modifying an unpacked Debian installation ISO so that
> it can do what you want when it gets started from an ISO in a partition.
> Maybe the pieces mentioned by Felix Miata can help.
>
> Packing up such ISO would not be difficult. One would not have to
> make it bootable by firmware by MBR or EFI system partition, because your
> USB stick"s GRUB would be set up to be started by the firmwares.
>
> Question at that point is of course why one would want to have a read-only
> filesystem like ISO 9660 in the partition.
> The only reason would be if one wants to easily reset the filesystem by
> erasing the overlay filesystem, or if one could not get the Debian software
> inside the ISO to work from some suitable read-write filesystem.
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas

It is hard to believe that this conversation can exist in a bubble of the 
time/space
continuum without the term "refracta" in it.  The most fascinating piece of 
software
or should I say family of sftw. since the time of space invaders.

Unless I am missing some fact about being unable to port refracta to debian, 
which
I doubt very much.  What is also absurd is that Thomas is involved in this 
conversation
while refracta is heavily relying on xorisso.

If I didn't know better I would have thought that Thomas wrote refracta himself.
Have two wonderful days, botho yas.

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: field.engin...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On 09/11/2017 02:27 PM, Fungi4All wrote:
>>> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
>>> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
>>> You have gone to a lot of trouble to type this. We appreciate it.
>>> Does it answer anything.
>>> Is Chevrolet an OS (Operating System)?
>>
>> No, but there are similarities.
>> They are both systems, one is for transportation the other for 
>> communication..
>
>> Now do you see the resemblance?
>
> My, you are a throwback from UseNet aren"t you? You know many of those
> people are crazy don"t you? Even to the point of committing suicide
> while online..I could no longer read that stuff, please don"t bring it here.

I can hardly make sense of what you mean and to whom you are talking to.
If my criticism on the motives to defend systemd after all the revelations 
about it
could drive crazy people to commit suicide, imagine if they designed bio-warfare
weapons.  At least the later admit on getting paid by "someone".

> Jimmy Johnson

What is your relationship to Debian, and why are you here again?

> Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - KDE 4.13.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda1
> Registered Linux User #380263

Maybe if I had 6 more cores my Debian wouldn't take for ever to start
and shutdown.  Do you think I should run ubuntu?  Give us a break!

Re: How do I boot a Debian 9.1.0 amd64 iso from GRUB?

[Fungi4All]

> From: ethanand...@hotmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
>
> Hello,
>
> I have recently had issues with burning DVDs and am wondering if I can
> boot a Debian 9.1 AMD64 DVD iso directly from an installed GRUB on
> another Debian partition.
> Preferably, is there a way of booting from the DVD boot sector in the
> iso so I can boot any operating system iso as well?

You mean the dvd or usb stick will not boot and you think that by adding an
entry on the mainsystem's grub?  If it is a bios booting system do you know
the procedure or setup of booting other than from HD?  In most systems
F12 during bios reading gives you the option, on some HPs it is escF9,
and there are a few other commands for different manufacturers.
But I don't understand why you would want grub to be configured to boot
a dvd.  As Thomas says if it is an uefi system you need an appropriate
iso.  If it is a bios system it is bios that tells the system to boot from a
specific medium, not grub.  Grub comes up when bios tells the system to
boot from hd and not a dvd or other medium.

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: to...@tuxteam.de
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> You"re getting the same welcome package
> and a handsome weekly check of $ 0, as we all are getting. No trial period.

I like to see the fine print, of what I can and can not say.

> You"re hired, *NOW*

Who!  Who is hiring?

>> Now do you see the resemblance?
>
> Hmmm.

The Chevy salesman has known and specific interests to protect
defending the choice to put a half ton engine behind the rear axle.
With debian I can only suspect by logical deduction why would
systemd me so ferociously defended, by hired experts.
I guess I would have to get hired to explain it to myself.

PS  To Dell, HP, Toshiba, ..etc:  Please send a personal note
so I can forward you the shipping address for evaluating new
server models and my consulting fee schedule for installing your
systems.  No, I will not use Gentoo, don't worry!

Re: About installation issue

[Fungi4All]

> From: deepesh554...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> I want to install kali linuc, but I am unable to start installing kali linux 
> because my laptop is not starting to install kali linux, I did contact laptop 
> company, they said to contact to you, so please help me to install kali linux

Tell us also which model laptop you have and what other system is installed on 
it.  This may be the case of an UEFI and secure boot ptoblem if it is a late 
model.
Everything Thomas Schmitt says is all true, but I will add some additional 
information.
You can install Debian, and then switch to kali repository and install the 
kali-keyring.  Then
you disable debian repositories and install kali-stuff.  The end product is the 
same kali.

Kali is built on debian testing, buster.  Unless you are an experienced 
programmer and
an expert on networking there is nothing there.  I only like the graphics :)
You can take a 5GB Debian installation and make it into a 25GB installation.  
Are you sure
you need this?

If you install Debian, then this list will have to help you with the specific 
image you used
to make the installation.  Then I will tell you specifically what to do if you 
choose that route.
At least you can then disable kali, purge the extra kernel, and end up with a 
wonderful
buster installation and an easy way if you need some package from Kali to be 
able to install
it at any time.

Kali is more debian than any debian based distribution out there.  It is even 
more debian than tails is, a pseudo debian live system.

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Wed 06 Sep 2017 at 14:29:35 -0400, Fungi4All wrote:
>
>> - Hello,
>> Is this the Chevrolet users" support group?
>> I just bought this new Chevy and I am having all kinds of problems I"ve 
>> never had before with a Chevy or any other car for that matter.
>> - What problems are you having, because all other owners are happy.
>> - Pretty much anything I was used to do is not working or ends up in an 
>> error.
>> - Are you sure it is a Chevy and not an immitation?
>> - Yes I am sure, it is the all new Chevy Corvair, I was told it is the 
>> world"s safest car at any speed, even parked in the garage.
>> - But you haven"t mentioned what problem you are having.
>> - Well, for one, when I hit the brakes hard I end up looking face to face 
>> with the truck that was half a mile behind me.
>> - What brake pads did you install?
>> - I didn"t change any brake pads, it is new I tell you!
>> - Well, that"s why, you haven"t changed the pads.
>> - What about going around a fast corner and the car steers all by itself?
>> - You shouldn"t be going so fast around a bumpy corner.
>> - When I hit the gas on the rain the car keeps going straight, even with the 
>> wheel turned.
>> - Why are you hitting the gas with the wheel turned, you should only use it 
>> when going straight.
>> - That"s OK, I"ll trade it in for a Ford, I hear people dying in these 
>> Corvairs.
>
> You have gone to a lot of trouble to type this. We appreciate it.
> Does it answer anything.
> Is Chevrolet an OS (Operating System)?

No, but there are similarities.
They are both systems, one is for transportation the other for communication,
which are relatives to each other.  The one developed to relieve the pain of 
the first.

They are both vehicles.  The later was used for systemd to dominate an industry.

They are/were marketed to the wrong market.  The corvair was not a bad car,
just wasn't meant for people who didn't understand it as being different.  It
was like a Karman-Ghia but with deadlier potential.  And that wasn't presented 
as
a warning at the time of marriage.  If you don't know what you are doing you 
should
either leave everything else you are doing in life and learn or you are going 
to crash.
Debian too, is developing with the market of enterprise in its secret mind, but 
allowed
people to believe that it is a system for single user personal computing.  
WRONG!

The customer support (this list/or the Chevy sales dept) have the same nasty
attitude.  Every time the customer complains of something the "experts" instead
of trying to see what the problem really is they are trying to locate unique
individual excuses of what the customer did wrong with their fine product.
At least the ones that survived to ask a question get this treatment.

Whether you have a new pc or an old pc it makes no difference.
"It is unsafe at any speed"

Now do you see the resemblance?

Re: Debian v9 it's a stretch

[Fungi4All]

-  Hello,
Is this the Chevrolet users' support group?
I just bought this new Chevy and I am having all kinds of problems I've never 
had before with a Chevy or any other car for that matter.
-  What problems are you having, because all other owners are happy.
-  Pretty much anything I was used to do is not working or ends up in an error.
-  Are you sure it is a Chevy and not an immitation?
-  Yes I am sure, it is the all new Chevy Corvair, I was told it is the world's 
safest car at any speed, even parked in the garage.
-  But you haven't mentioned what problem you are having.
-  Well, for one, when I hit the brakes hard I end up looking face to face with 
the truck that was half a mile behind me.
-  What brake pads did you install?
-  I didn't change any brake pads, it is new I tell you!
-  Well, that's why, you haven't changed the pads.
-  What about going around a fast corner and the car steers all by itself?
-  You shouldn't be going so fast around a bumpy corner.
-  When I hit the gas on the rain the car keeps going straight, even with the 
wheel turned.
-  Why are you hitting the gas with the wheel turned, you should only use it 
when going straight.
-  That's OK, I'll trade it in for a Ford, I hear people dying in these 
Corvairs.

Re: Laptop randomly reboots

[Fungi4All]

> From: rhkra...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Tuesday, September 05, 2017 12:46:58 AM Sam Smith wrote:
>> Well I guess I really spoke too soon Just got a random reboot a
>> minute ago... Pretty much at a loss now. The only thing that hasn"t been
>> replaced now is the CPU, battery, and power adapter. I do have a spare
>> battery and power adapter. Guess I"ll try running with those for a month
>> or so and see what happens. Though not really sure how either one of
>> those would make the computer reboot randomly once a month. Laptop is
>> mounted in a docking station. At least for the last 6 months, every
>> reboot was while it was docked. But I do remember times last year
>> sitting at the kitchen table undocked and getting a reboot so I don"t
>> think the docking station is the issue.. But have no idea now :/
>
> I haven"t paid much attention to this before today, but, if I had a problem
> with unexplained reboots, the first area I"d look at is the power supply
> "chain"--that is, the battery, the connections between the battery and the
> laptop, power "glitches" to the house,etc.
>
> I run a laptop with a known bad battery--if I disconnect the power supply it
> crashes in seconds. OTOH, if your battery is good, it serves as a (long
> lived) UPS--you should be able to ride out hours long power glitches.
>
> If I had a known good battery, I might try examining the contacts between the
> battery and the laptop--are they clean / shiny, is the "springy side" still
> "springy", does the battery fit snugly in the case or is there enough 
> clearance
> for it to possibly move and break contact with the laptop? I might even try
> picking up the laptop and reasonably gently shaking it (while running) to see
> if it reboots. (You don"t want to shake it so hard that you damage something
> else.)
>
> If you have a known bad battery, I"d look at the chain from the power outlet
> through the various cords and contacts on both sides of the power adapter.
> Try shaking the power adapter.
>
> Is the power to your house reliable--is there any chance you"ve had brief
> power outages overnight? (In the US, most electric utilities have automatic
> reclosers on the power line circuit breakers--if they detect a fault they
> open, then try closing again after a few seconds (in hopes that either the
> fault has cleared (maybe a shorting tree branch has either blown or burned),
> away, open again if there is still a fault, again try to reclose, after a few
> seconds. In most cases, they try this something like 3 times, with a somewhat
> longer delay before the last retry.
>
> Oh wait, you have (presumably known good) spare battery and power adapter--try
> those.

Power is not the only thing that will shutdown a laptop, but rebooting 
automatically
sounds a bit strange in itself.  Most I have seen take your input to power-up 
unless
a specific instruction is given to reboot.
Are you sure you have not set a hot-key for reboot?
Is it possible a fan or an overheating alarm is not shutting it off? But then 
again, you
are talking about a reboot not a shutdown.
Anything else from the manufacturer that is triggering a reboot?
If the operating system is at fault for ordering a reboot that will be in the 
logs.
If it is a mechanical shutdown it may be instant and not giving enough warnings
to the system to log anything.
So why is it rebooting?  Maybe it goes through an interruption that is not a 
shutdown
so instantly the system is trying to recuperate from the interruption.  
Possibly insufficient
or too much voltage is going through a self protected circuit which causes the 
interruption
and then allows current back through again, giving you the illusion of a reboot.
Sometimes disk drives on their way out draw too much current, or cd/dvd drives, 
which
the power supply can't keep up with which cause an interruption till enough 
juice is
built up to get the motor rolling again.  It could be as simple a small 
capacitor in one of
the drives.  Do your drive/s go to sleep in some state to preserve power?  Look 
at your
power settings and turn off the energy conserving options.
Maybe boot from usb into a live system, disable the drives from the bios and 
run a
usb stick or drive.  If the problem comes up again then it is not drive related 
or operating
system related.  Operating systems are much more likely to freeze up than to 
order
an anauthorized shut/reboot.  I am willing to bet it is a mechanical/electric 
glitch and
not an OS problem.

Unless you have discovered a new black-hole in systemd  (rust never sleeps). ;)

Re: (solved) how to roll back to jessie

[Fungi4All]

> From: longwi...@yahoo.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>On Mon, 9/4/17, Felix Miata  wrote:
>
>> Wheezy support is scheduled to terminate less than 9 months from today.
>> Maybe now is a good time to consider at  least Jessie if not Stretch, since 
>> you"re
>> installing fresh.
>
>> Thanks!
>
> i have used debian for long time (since rex) all support i need comes from 
> this list
> i do not install security update and it not cause trouble for me
>
> and font in text mode in wheezy seems cool
>
> i have an wheezy in /dev/sda2
> and have installed iceweasel today

Not to mention that "upgrading" from wheezy to Devuan Jessie is even simpler 
than
from Jessie 8 to Jessie 1, since there is not so much Junk to remove.

Re: network trouble on stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: mrma...@earthlink.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Erik Christiansen composed on 2017-09-04 18:06 (UTC+1000):
>
>> But Fungi4All"s solution is so easy to use that I"m won over, and
>> have implemented it here.
>
> I think I started putting net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line close to 3
> years ago. :-)

You mean on grub.cfg on the linux command line.  This is what the above 
mentioned procedure does
when grub updates.  If you don't place the modifier in etc/grub then it may 
vanish again, meaning you
will have to do it again.  The same with other modifiers of grub, like default 
# entry, background, timeout.

Re: network trouble on stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: ghe2...@gmail.com
> To: debianUsers 
>
> Working on a Dell 5414 laptop, Stretch.
>
> The WiFi works, but the Ethernet doesn"t, and I can"t figure out why.
>
> ip addr:
>
> 1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
> group default qlen 1
> link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
> inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> inet6 ::1/128 scope host
> valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: enp0s31f6:  mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN
> group default qlen 1000
> link/ether 10:05:01:40:f4:43 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> 3: wwp0s20f0u2i12:  mtu 1500 qdisc noop
> state DOWN group default qlen 1000
> link/ether 4e:8a:3a:22:b3:df brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> 4: wlp1s0:  mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN group
> default qlen 1000
> link/ether f4:8c:50:17:bc:0e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
> 5: enx10050149649d:  mtu 1500 qdisc noop state
> DOWN group default qlen 1000
> link/ether 10:05:01:49:64:9d brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
>
> /etc/network/interfaces:
>
> # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
>
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
>
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> auto wwp0s20f0u2i12
> iface wwp0s20f0u2i12 inet static
> address 216.17.134.202/29
> gateway 216.17.134.201
>
> First I tried with wicd, a network manager (the static def wasn"t in 
> interfaces)
>
> It said the wired interface was up, and assigned the requested IP. It
> wasn"t checking after assignment to see if it worked. I turned that
> on, and it never came back.
>
> I removed the network monitor and added the static paragraph to the
> interface file. ifup and ifdown worked, and ip addr said
> wwp0s20f0u2i12 was up.
>
> There are two Ethernet ports on this thing, and I tried both with no
> success. I swapped out the Ethernet cable with the same result.
>
> I replaced Stretch with Buster. It works. dhcp (Comcast) or static (my
> T1). Using the interfaces file.
>
> BTW. ifconfig fans, wait till you get to Buster -- no ifup or down.
> Buster seems to boot using a commented out dhcp paragraph, though.
> Running by hand, "/etc/init.d/network reload" loads the correct
> config.
>
> The "man interfaces" on Stretch talks a lot about the ethn interfaces.
> It does on Buster, too.
>
> This is less than optimal.
>
> What"s going on here? This is Linux, not Winders; Debian, not Ubuntu;
> stable, not Sid. This is what we"re supposed to put on Internet
> servers? They had time to make something as simple as this work while
> it was testing. And to correct the man pages, too.
>
> If they didn"t have time, the release should have been postponed until
> it was ready for prime time, IMHO.
>
> I looked on the "Net, asking why the interface names were changed. I
> found a good reason: sometimes the ethn names aren"t reliably
> consistent. Fine, I say, you"ve figured how to make them consistent.
> That"s no reason to change the names from a meaningful 4 or 5 chars to
> 11, chosen by /dev/urandom.
>
> Somebody"s selling the Debian management a pile of bull excrement.

Before you get a long lecture on the merits of long unique names try this:

Edit your /etc/default/grub change GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=”” to :
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="net.ifnames=0" If the biosdevname is installed you need to 
add :
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0"
$ sudo update-grub
$ sudo reboot

Now check your /dev/interfaces, they should be eth0 and wlan0 and they will stay
this way.

> Glenn English

Re: One-line password generator

[Fungi4All]

> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Wed 30 Aug 2017 at 00:59:15 +0300, Reco wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 08:50:53PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>> "Us"? Do not speak for all the list please.
>
> It is a construct; intended to involve everyone in the conversation.

Sorry Brian, after a while on the list I can get a sense that your communication
is just peculiar, although you are not evil in real life, but this is the true 
essence
of true fascism.  To speak as you represent everyone isolating "one" and placing
him/her against all of you!  It is "us" against the jew, the homosexual, the 
jw, the
gypsy, the commy.   It is a populist tactic, you may want to place you manuals
aside and read some early 20th century history.  In an other continent it was
america against the foreign invasion of a syndicalist.  On this side of the pond
it was us against "him".  Hitler himself did alot of street talk to gain 
support.
Unless secretly the rest of the list has elected you to speak on their 
speechless
behalf.

"It is a construct"!   Ha!!

>> Admit that you just did not read the pdf.
>
> It is not concerned with online cracking. That is obvious. Why should I
> spend time in reading its each and every detail
>
> --
> Brian.

Re: Computer friendly blood pressure?

[Fungi4All]

> From: rowl...@cloud85.net
>
>> I am not a physician.
> so?

It is good to clear things out when giving health related advise.

>> You may want to do some reading under the term bio-feedback before
>> you engage in experimenting with yourself.
>
> Who said/hinted absolutely anything remotely related to experimentation?

What's the purpose of creating a database of readings then?
This obsession with readings becomes a health problem in itself.  No reading 
ever
can say what your blood pressure was 5' before or after.  Maybe twice a day when
you are fully calm is all you need. What will you or anyone else colclude from
a database of readings?  Nothing.  That's what I am talking about, it is 
meaningless
or it can get dangerous.  5 readings in one morning of 11/7 and one of 15/11 can
send you into a panic of something going wrong when there isn't.  And that can
cause you a problem.

Sorry for worrying, go fill 4 terrabytes up of pressure and pulse readings.

Re: Computer friendly blood pressure?

[Fungi4All]

> From: rowl...@cloud85.net
> To: debian-user 
>
> For sometime I"ve been causally looking for a blood pressure cuff with
> communication capability that does NOT require a "smart" phone [be
> it Apple or Android].
>
> A recent hospital stay prompts me to more actively look.
>
> I currently have a wrist cuff type with memory but no communication
> capability.
> Preferred solutions would be something that:
> uses the same removable media as digital cameras.
> or
> has USB connectivity
> Bluetooth or WiFi connectivity would be acceptable.
>
> Already written Linux apps a plus.
>
> Any suggestions/comments?
>
> Thank you.

I am not a physician.
You may want to do some reading under the term bio-feedback before you engage
in experimenting with yourself.  Blood pressure, pulse, blood-oxygen levels, 
even
a cardiogram and a brain function monitor, among many other live life signs, can
all be displayed in real time.  Some think that they may be able without 
medication
to learn how to control them.  It may have fatal effects or at least reverse 
effects.
There may be a good reason why you can not consciously control your heart
or other organs.  It is like a systemd thing, it only works unmonitored :)

I have been a diver for long and lately with a relative's need for monitoring
oxygen I played around with that little thing, holding my breath and taking
deep breaths.  I could go from maximum to a near faint measurement in
a matter of 3 minutes.  I gave up playing.

Re: Resign me from your lists

[Fungi4All]

From: marioxcc...@yandex.com

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On 27/08/17 18:15, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Mario Castelán Castro  writes:
>>
>>> I assumed originally that this was a person who subscribed then
>>> realized he did not want to be subscribed and decided to complain to
>>> the list about that.
>>
>> Even on that assumption, there is no call to insult the person. No-one
>> is born knowing how to operate a mailing list subscription, please allow
>> people to learn without implying they are inferior.
>
> The problem is not ignorant people per se, but people who is ignorant of
> what they ought to know (given the knowledge requirements of the
> activities they choose to do).
>
> If a lay man in the street does not know what radioactive decay heat is,
> I would not see a problem, but if a manager of a nuclear power plant
> does not know, then I would call him incompetent and the word “stupid”
> is more than deserved. I think you will agree with this.
>
> Likewise, somebody either writing or criticizing cryptography
> recommendations should be competent in the relevant theory.

Are you both on the same subject or are you using reference without
noting it?  From the OP we have either spam or someone who tried
debian and its list and gave up.  What on earth are you talking about?
Managing a nuclear plant?  Did you wake up one day and thought of
giving it a try?  Did you win the lottery and bought one to play with?  And
you dare mention a complex mathematical problem, as cryptography,
when you are drawing parallels between trying a "free" operating system
on a "P"C, with managing the world's most potentially hazardous energy
conversion system, that could affect the lives of millions, if not billions of
earthlings for more than a century?
How do you do this?  You quit your village's McDonald's and apply for
managing a plant?  The hell with the manager, it is the persons working
in the control room that should know what the hell they are doing.  But
if your pc explodes I don't think the northern half of the pacific will generate
monster mutants for a century.

Are  you suggesting someone should read 4856 pages of manuals
before they install Debian, let alone ask a "dumb question"?  All I know
is you have a consumer, dissatisfied with a $100 windoze license from
years ago, and giving something free a try.  Because another $100 will
not get this old (4year old pc) much of a chance to revive.
Look mommy, no DrWatson!
How about I pop that barrel of depleted uranium open and dump it to
the pond?
Yeaaaeee!!!

Re: Re: I need help to determine package name for a bug report.

[Fungi4All]

> From: zoltan...@gmail.com
> To: Debian User 
>
> I would try to exchange the memories by swapping...
>
> 2017-08-27 16:36 GMT+02:00 Alexander V. Makartsev :
>
>> Package: linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64
>> Version: 4.9.30-2+deb9u3
>> Maintainer: Debian Kernel Team 
>>
>> I've already checked memory with memtest86+ and found no errors. My
>> hardware pretty recent (Skylake i5 CPU and H170 Chipset based mobo)
>> Also these errors always begin with "kernel: alsa-sink-ALC88: Corrupted
>> page table at address", so I doubt it is hardware problem.
>>
>> On [27.08.2017 15](tel:27.08.2017%2015):35, Zoltán Herman wrote:
>>> kernel team
>>> linux-image-
>>>
>>> May be a memory error?
>>>

Do sound cards have memory chips on them?  How can we tell?  If they do
could this be a source of the above problem that memtest doesn't test?

Re: Tails: Failed InRelease - tor+http

[Fungi4All]

> From: nob...@dizum.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> @ Mario Castelán Castro:
>
> "Ask the tails people. This is the DEBIAN-user mailing list."
>
> Thanks, but...
>
> - "Debian and Tor Services available as Onion Services"[1]
> https://bits.debian.org/2016/08/debian-and-tor-services-available-as-onion-services.html
>
> [1] probably more recent info there but just for clarity
>
> @ Fungi4All:
>
> Thank you.

Anytime,
Debian and Devuan are about the  only distos that list .onion repositories.
Considering the socks5 is pretty good in verifying packets between source and
destination it makes one very insecure to be upgrading without it or some
form of vpn..
The only drawback for some maybe that the automirror gets confused on
what is closer and you may be linked to some far away mirror, but that
maybe some seconds give or take.
All you need is tor apt-transport-tor and apt-transport-https and changing
your sources.list with onion addresses and tor:// instead of http://

Re: Tails: Failed InRelease - tor+http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/

[Fungi4All]

> From: marioxcc...@yandex.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On 24/08/17 20:51, Anonymous wrote:
>> I"m seeing this in Tails [...]
>
> Ask the tails people. This is the DEBIAN-user mailing list.

Tail is Debian because anything that has official debian repositories
to feed from.  Unlike debian based distributions that have their own
repositories.
There is nothing in tails that you can not get or make from a basic
debian installation.  The only thing special about it is its configuration
of debian packages.  Much of it has to do with restriction to avoid
permanent installation..
There is not much room in live debian to do a massive upgrade if
it is outdated, but you can install packages and even save them
in the encrypted persistent volume for next time.  Are you sure you
has a network connection and a tor connection?  Either this or
the debian mirror was down which is unlikely.  There was a recent
bug in a previous version it would not connect with some machines.
Not a very communicative group even for filing bugs.
As long as they are on a systemd based system, IMHO, they are
defeating their purpose and goal.  Technically interesting but
functionally 0!  Which zero might you ask!

Re: One-line password generator

[Fungi4All]

One thing is for sure, with the good ol'boyz club of developers and 
ex-developers there is
no room on this list for /users

Which proves my theory that it is insiders of the linux community that make it 
so hostile
for the rest of the world, due to their insecurity their good ol'boy club will 
collapse.
At least non-free systems maintain a distance between the psycho bunch called 
devs
and the public.  It may be worth paying to keep them isolated.

I wonder, without knowing so much, would a tiny little script of a daemon 
record this
long password whether you typed it in or a randomizing engine produced it, 
internally?
Your dear and beloved init system can always escape with it.  And you can not 
tell
me it is not true unless you go through a few miles of code produced each week,
and that makes it randomly likely that you would miss it anyway thinking it is 
something
else.

I am out of here, out of this hell hole you pretend is a support group for 
users.
Sorry if I upset anyone's dinner appetite.

Re: Wireless devices and cryptography in practice (Was: USB wireless keyboard in stretch)

[Fungi4All]

> From: marioxcc...@yandex.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On 22/08/17 10:22, Jape Person wrote:
>> Hence, why I suspect that they are vulnerable. I bought these things
>> because my wife trips over her cables 3 or 4 times a day, and wireless
>> ones are just easier to deal with from a workstation logistics standpoint.
>
> Wireless things do not solve the problem of having to cope with wires.
> They just replace this with the bigger problem of unauduitable firmware
> directly exposed to the attacker (via radio or sometimes infrared
> communication).
>
> My suggestion is to instead address cabling directly. If your wife trips
> because cables are in the floor, then use some wire to coil the excess
> length so that it does not hang. If your cables have to go through a
> walkway, then pass them through the bottom of the ceiling, so that the
> floor will be clear and thus avoid the “tripping hazard”. Use a cable
> extension if required. You may need to go to a hardware store to buy a
> cable tray or a wall-mountable cable clamp.
>
>> I"ll look into getting the test suite from Bastille to see if I can
>> figure out how to do some testing on these things to see if they look
>> vulnerable. Do you really think that this is unauditable? Bastille
>> claims to have produced Open Source tools for doing just that.
>
> If the device firmware is secret, then it is unauduitable. Of course,
> this applies to wired keyboards too. The problem is that wireless
> keyboards are exposed to possible attackers, while wired keyboards are not.
>
> I have not heard about Bastille. Apparently they sell a vulnerability
> scanner for wireless devices. I can easily be wrong here because I just
> took a quick glance at “https://www.bastille.net/product/introduction/”.
>
> By doing vulnerability scanner, one can only test the device for a
> limited set of *known* vulnerabilities (the test suite must know what to
> look for). I would not trust any wireless device just because a
> vulnerability scanning found nothing on it. Without seeing the firmware
> source code, one can not tell if it has vulnerabilities previously unknown.
>
>> Maybe I"ll just use the wireless keyboards and mice to control TVs.
>
> Ugh? I did not know that TVs that have any use for keyboard and mice
> input existed. I guess it"s just yet another class of devices with
> “walled-garden type” proprietary software providing an incountable
> number of fancy but completely useless bells and whistles.
>
> What is next? A toaster that makes a Twitter post when the toasts are ready?
>
>>> That is why opaque cryptographic systems can not be trusted. This is
>>> covered in any practical cryptography book.
>>
>> Practical cryptography -- isn"t that an oxymoron, for most users at
>> least? [...]
> I was referring to *books* that address the issues related to
> *deploying* cryptographic systems as opposed to theoretical issues or
> cryptanalysis (for example, the mathematics of elliptic curve
> cryptography, hash constructions “probably secure” based on the random
> oracle model, and other details that are not relevant to the end users).
> The question of whether cryptography can be practical is a very
> different matter.
>
> I believe that cryptography is already practical. For example,
> encrypting e-mail with Enigmail and Thunderbird is very easy. Many
> distributions have graphical installers (lay users are allergic to
> ncurses-type interfaces) with which an encrypted volume can be set up
> easily. Many web sites use TLS transparently to the user, et cetera.
>
>> In a day when people post their most personal experiences and thoughts
>> on Facebook or Twitter for everyone to read [...]
>
> But about the huge amorphous mass of typical Facebook users, those are a
> lost case. The fact that they couldn"t be made to properly secure their
> information –even if their despicable lives depended on it– is not a
> fault of the cryptography systems. It is a fault of their indolence and
> incompetence. Related:
> .
>
> Personally I do not care about “privacy” in the normal sense, because I
> do not care about the opinion of people about myself (However, I do care
> about *arguments* that I am doing something wrong). However, I care abut
> encryption because I do not want to leave through the Internet personal
> information that maybe can be used *against* me.
>
> Regards.
>
> --
> Do not eat animals, respect them as you respect people.
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+(become+OR+eat)+vegan

Very nice article reming people of the obvious.  There is one specific area 
where mediums mix-match,
air and copper that is, and this is a not so recent gadget of using 
mains/electrical outlets for networking
by placing a pair or more dongles on any plugs on the same circuit.
Well, electrical circuits are not very isolated from the generator and back 
through your house.  It is just
that those little boxes are 

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

From: ans...@debian.org

> To: Fungi4All <fungil...@protonmail.com>
> debian-user\@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>
> Fungi4All <fungil...@protonmail.com> writes:
>>> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
>>
>> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
>> become "your" lackeys.
>
> Could you take your crazy conspiracy theories somewhere else? I"m also
> very tempted to suggest contacting a mental health professional if you
> truly believe what you write and are not just trolling.

First of all this is a "users" list, I belong here.
I may be crazy, but crazy people can follow logical arguments despite of their
craziness.
Please explain to us this madness of spider-web neural network of universally
unique identifiers of every stinking little piece of hw item the system 
encounters?
Explain to me/us how these uu-identifiers are being blocked from being 
communicated.
What is the overall purpose?  Someone (Erik?) already posted the commonality
of transplanting your "system disk" into another machine and facing more madness
than I can be diagnosed with.

My crazy brain says:  "forensic science", relating and identifying an 
insignificant
piece of evidence with something else.  At least have the infrastructure that 
supports
such relational "madness", because for sure judges and attorneys can't 
understand.

Nobody is paying me to shut up!  And that is not so crazy.  And by the time this
message goes to the public archives you'd better come up with a logical 
explanation
that defeats my crazy mode of thought.

> Ansgar

Again. It is not personal, it is the hydra behind the matrix that is causing 
madness.

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: geo...@nsup.org
> To: Fungi4All <fungil...@protonmail.com>
> debian-user@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org>, Gene Heskett 
> <ghesk...@shentel.net>
>
> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
>> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
>> become "your" lackeys.
>
> Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so
> because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous
> and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize
> immediately.

I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's signature 
order).
I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But don't take it personally, it is only 
politics.

> --
> Nicolas George

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: fungil...@protonmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Gene Heskett 
>
>> From: geo...@nsup.org
>> To: Gene Heskett 
>> debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>
>> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
>>> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish
>>> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want
>>> to do with a computer?
>>
>> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
>
> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
> become "your" lackeys.
>
>> Nicolas George

Or at least that is what this video says: 
[https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/113](https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/113/)

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: geo...@nsup.org
> To: Gene Heskett 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
>> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish
>> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want
>> to do with a computer?
>
> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.

Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
become "your" lackeys.

> Nicolas George

Re: What tool can I use to make efficient incremental backups?

[Fungi4All]

> From: marioxcc...@yandex.com
> To: debian-user 
>
> Hello.
>
> Currently I use rsync to make the backups of my personal data, including
> some manually selected important files of system configuration. I keep
> old backups to be more safe from the scenario where I have deleted
> something important, I make a backup, and I only notice the deletion
> afterwards.
>
> Each backup snapshot is stored in its own directory. There is much
> redundancy between subsequent backups. I use the option "--link-dest" to
> make hard links and thus save space for files that are *identical* to an
> already-existing file in the backup repository. but this is still
> inefficient. Any change to a file, even to its metadata (permission,
> modification time, etc.), will result in the file being saved at whole,
> instead of a delta.
>
> Can you suggest a more efficient alternative?
>
> I know about bup  but I have not used it
> because it warns that “This is a very early version. Therefore it will
> most probably not work for you, but we don"t know why. It is also
> missing some probably-critical features.”.
>
> I also know about obnam. Unfortunately, the main author it has been
> announced that it will be unmaintained because it has become a piece of
> engineering, with all the ugly consequences of that, and real
> engineering is “not fun” for him.
>
> Thanks.

Stay with rsync

Re: need "newbie level" instructions to file a bug.

[Fungi4All]

> From: butterflyby...@gmail.com
> To: Debian Users 
>
> On 8/13/17, Elton Woo  wrote:
>> Last week at Debconf17, here in Montréal, Debian "Stretch" was installed
>> on my machine during the Installfest. Since then, I have had several lcckups
>> of the system.
>> Machine: Lenovo G50-45, (purchased August 2015). 8 Gb Ram dual booting
>> Windows 8.1 / Debian "Stretch"
>> What happens: Whenever the screen goes to sleep / suspend mode,the system
>> freezes (no response from the mouse or keyboard). My only recourse was to do
>> a dirty shutdown via the power switch.
>> The experts have determined that the consistent firmware crash is related to
>> the drivers of my Qualcomm Atheros network card. Previously, i was able to
>> use the wifi and bluetooth in Mint Linux (see thread here:Atheros QCA6164
>> 0168c:0041 ver20 [SOLVED]
>> | |
>> Atheros QCA6164 0168c:0041 ver20 [SOLVED] - Linux Mint Forums
>> |
>>
>> For the present I am obliged to disable screen timeouts, wifi connections,
>> and use an ethernet cable
>> For DebConf17, I registered with my other email address 
>> and this is the address which I would prefer to use for reporting the bug.
>
> Hi.. I don"t have the answer(s) you need. What I"m doing is
> "commiserating", saying "me, too" here. I actually owe this to a
> different thread on a similar topic. There is at least one more thread
> like this in recent times, and I think there might be more than that.
>
> With respect to reporting this, there"s a Debian package called
> "reportbug". It tries to walk you through the process as painlessly as
> possible considering all the variables involved.
>
> If you decide to use reportbug, you first need to know what package
> you should likely report this against. If we mess up and file against
> a wrong package, the pros on the other end simply redirect the bug to
> where it really belongs.
>
> You"ll go through some multiple choice steps that are geared toward
> determining the severity of the bug. If you get through to actually
> writing up your report, you"ll encounter a temporary template that you
> delete and replace by answering the steps that are addressed in the
> template.
>
> I just deleted everything else that I wrote about mine, and instead I
> have a question about yours. What exactly are you doing to tell yours
> when to hibernate, suspend, go to sleep?
>
> In other words mostly I"m wondering what program or programs you"re
> using, which tabs in those programs if that applies, that kind of
> thing. That"s the kind of thorough detail you would want to put into
> your report when you file it.
>
> Do you have yours setup to make you log back in afterward, or is yours
> supposed to take you straight on in with no password when you wake it
> up?
>
> Your wifi angle there is the first I"ve heard of that one. It"s
> possible someone else has mentioned it and that I just haven"t read
> that yet.
>
> These days, mine"s about the keyboard on a desktop PC that
> theoretically has enough memory, if nothing else. This keyboard glitch
> was on the laptop, too. I"d forgotten about that.
>
> The keyboard becomes 100% USELESS until I use a mouse to send the
> currently active window into the background and then bring it to the
> forefront again. EVERY time. It"s the weirdest glitch.
>
> It was purely by accident that I tripped over that seemingly unrelated
> work-around for it. Only occurs when it I THINK it is technically the
> word, "hibernates".
>
> In a situation where I might not have a mouse or a touchpad, the ONLY
> way I could use this computer again is to do the hard reboot using
> that hardware power on/off button. In other words, even things like my
> fave ALT+F1 Applications menu popup don"t work as an alternative for
> getting to that Log out/Restart option..
>
> Mine"s set up for me to log back in after it "hibernates" (?)/goes
> into "standby"..
>
> Cindy :)
> --
> Cindy-Sue Causey
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
>
> * runs with duct tape *

Isn't the first thing a newby needs to do, before they get to reportbug, to set 
up
mail for the system?  If like most of us use webmail or something like 
thunderbird
it will not do.  Alternatively there is a template somewhere in reportbug that 
you
can complete and send as any way you send email.

I can't help you much right now because I am not on Debian, it is broken and 
sick.

Re: customizing systemd config

[Fungi4All]

From: gsslist+deb...@anthropohedron.net

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 07:04:54PM +0200, Christian Seiler wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> On 08/11/2017 04:42 AM, Gregory Seidman wrote:
>> > I"m trying to recreate under systemd something I had previously cobbled
>> > together with shell scripts and init levels under sysvinit.
>> >
>> > Only a few services ran under init 2, the default set in /etc/inittab,
>> > including privoxy and ssh; the rest of the services I wanted running, such
>> > as fetchmail, exim4, courier-imap, apache2, etc. would be started at init
>> > level 3. Those services required an encrypted volume (actually a RAID that
>> > was an encrypted LVM PV for a VG with several volumes) to be configured and
>> > mounted before they could be started.
>>
>> I"ve blogged about this very scenario a while back:
>> https://blog.iwakd.de/headless-luks-decryption-via-ssh
>>
>> Note that I wrote that mainly to explain some details about
>> systemd using a specific example, I personally am not actually
>> using that kind of setup. For a headless server of mine I use
>> full disk encryption (LUKS) for everything except /boot and
>> unlock the entire system in the initramfs. I also mention that
>> approach in my blog post, but wanted to stress it here again
>> because I think that the initramfs-based decryption is the
>> better way to do this. For that alternative take a look at:
>> https://projectgus.com/2013/05/encrypted-rootfs-over-ssh-with-debian-wheezy/
>
> This not only gave me the understanding I was looking for, but a
> new perspective on it as well. Thank you!
>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
> --Greg

I think your getting off-topic here and hijacking the thread.  Start a 
"different" one.
I am expecting to see customization of systemd here not some wheezy crap!

I am being sarcastic, don't take it personally!  I recently installed a wheezy 
on
my pc and for a little while I thought the NOS-valve has hit in my gas-powered 
old
pc.  WOW!!  Of course that was just a test-bed to see how devuan would transform
a pre-systemd system.  Flawlessly I might say.

RE: name for wireless interface

[Fungi4All]

> From: jratl...@bluemarble.net
> To: 'Dejan Jocic' , debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Create file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
>
> Add line:
>
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
> ATTR{address}=="[MAC_ADDRESS]", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1",
> KERNEL=="wl*", NAME="wlan0"
>
> Replace [MAC_ADDRESS] with the MAC address of your wireless card. Reboot.
>
> This worked for me on a wired card with my MAC and changing KERNEL="wl*" to
> KERNEL="en*" on a bhyve Debian 9 guest.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dejan Jocic [mailto:jode...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 3:09 AM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: name for wireless interface
>
> On 12-08-17, pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
>> A TL-WN722N adapter connected to a stretch system gives these results.
>>
>> peter@imager:~$ lsusb | grep Ath
>> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0cf3:9271 Atheros Communications, Inc. AR9271
>> 802.11n
>>
>> root@imager:/home/peter# iwlist scan
>> wlxa0f3c10a28f7 Interface doesn"t support scanning : Network is down
>>
>> lo Interface doesn"t support scanning.
>>
>> eth0 Interface doesn"t support scanning.
>>
>> What is the origin of the long name, wlxa0f3c10a28f7?
>> Can a shorter name be assigned?
>>
>> Thanks, ... Peter E.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
>> Tel: +1 360 639 0202 Pender Is.: +1 250 629 3757
>> http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
>>
>
> It was asked many times on this list, and all around generally. Best answer
> would be to look here:
>
> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfac
> eNames/
>
> It has full explanation of why those long names and what to do if you do not
> like it. It is easy to assign shorter name, if you wish so and is explained
> nicely, with 3 possible methods.

Neither the document or any of you have explained to me why on a single session
the same interface for a wireless connection would repeatedly change names.
wlan0 wlan0mon wlan0monmon ..
Because on a different distribution the interfaces are
enp0s25  for wire
wlp0s29f7u5 for wireless
and never change or drop their connection like debian has been doing for a 
while.
I go in Debian and try to do an update and upgrade in case the problem goes away
on its own.  When the connection gets dropped I leave and try again another day.

Did I mention that none of my other systems have systemd!
I have no idea whether it is related.

Re: usb flash drives / sd

[Fungi4All]

> From: d...@randomstring.org
> To: Doug 
> ju...@tutanota.com, debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 06:58:47PM -0500, Doug wrote:
>>
>> On 08/11/2017 05:11 PM, Dan Ritter wrote:
>> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 02:25:01PM -0500, Doug wrote:
>> > > On 08/11/2017 01:46 PM, ju...@tutanota.com wrote:
>> > > > There are three major types of flash chip types : SLC - MLC - TLC
>> > > >
>> > > > how-to check my usbkey/sd/memory card ?
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Securely sent with Tutanota.
>> > > I am not being a wiseguy.
>> > > What is the difference, and why does it matter?
>> > The basic difference is the number of bits recorded in a single
>> > cell, and that affects both the storage density and its
>> > long term reliability.
>> >
>> > More bits == more dense but less reliable.
>> >
>> > To compensate for long term reliability, SSD manufacturers use
>> > a variety of strategies involving staging data in RAM,
>> > compressing it, and implementing other special storage
>> > structures.
>> >
>> > On a removable-media flash device, none of those strategies
>> > are used.
>> >
>> > -dsr-
>> >
>> Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to usb flash drives.
>> Do you mean these little chip gizmos that go into digital cameras?
>>
>> (Hope I am not being a nuisance.)
>
> What"s the difference between:
>
> - a USB "thumb drive"
> - a USB SSD
> - an SD, SDHC, SDXC "memory card"
> - a SATA SSD
> - an M.2 SSD
>
> They are all persistent data storage (i.e. doesn"t disappear
> when the power goes off) using a technology that stores
> electrons (or lack of electrons) in "cells". They differ in:
>
> - interface to your computer
> - strategies for reliability
> - speed and capacity
> - quality control
> - price

My earlier suspicion that when I see an 8gb, a 16gb, a 32gb, and a 64gb on the 
rack looking the same
but stamped differently is most likely the same exact chip/s programmed for 
density and reliability.
Hence in a model as the above you chose the least capacity for maximun 
reliability.  It is very common
in the computer industry to manufacture one single piece of hardware and alter 
firmware and packaging
to meet different market groups.  It is always cheaper than manufacturing 4 
different things.
I also think processors are about the same, they program the speed down for 
having cheaper, cooler,
less energy consuming, versions of the same superfast processor that gamers 
will pay double for.

Re: name for wireless interface

[Fungi4All]

> From: pe...@easthope.ca
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> pe...@easthope.ca
>
> A TL-WN722N adapter connected to a stretch system gives these results.
>
> peter@imager:~$ lsusb | grep Ath
> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0cf3:9271 Atheros Communications, Inc. AR9271 802.11n
>
> root@imager:/home/peter# iwlist scan
> wlxa0f3c10a28f7 Interface doesn"t support scanning : Network is down
>
> lo Interface doesn"t support scanning.
>
> eth0 Interface doesn"t support scanning.
>
> What is the origin of the long name, wlxa0f3c10a28f7?
> Can a shorter name be assigned?

I can not help much and I have given up worrying about this madness.
I have two debian installations, one has been on for years.  The one is
testing the other unstable and previously have never had problems with
either one.  Lately neither one has been able to maintain a wifi connection
for long and takes 2-3' to boot up.  I took J.Johnson's recommendation
to play around with ifconfig -a and ifconfig wlan0 up from console.
The first time I run it the interface was listed as wlan0
The second run it became wlan0mon
The third it became wlan0monmon

I barely get enough time to run an update/upgrade on both installation
and then it is down hill from there.

NOW

I have 4 more installations on the same machine, as I keep debian for
sentimental reasons only.  None of the four different installations have
had ANY connection problems, same machine, same wifi device, same
connection.  The two are devuan-based the other two are Arch based.
NONE have systemd on them, only Debian does.

You tell me what is wrong.  Setup is about the same, wicd is on all of them.

Re: Big problem computer not booting

[Fungi4All]

From: field.engin...@gmail.com

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On 08/10/2017 12:00 PM, kelsang sherab wrote:
>> I run Debian stretch on MacBook Air
>>
>> I did a restore backup from previous system[debian Jessie ]
>>
>> Now machine is not booting
>>
>> upon boot the machine gives the normal GRUB menu:
>> Debian GNU/Linux
>> Advanced options for Debian GNU/linux
>>
>> Click the 1st one
>>
>> saying
>> Loading etc
>> Loading initial ram disk
>>
>> then a list of checks
>>
>> [ 0.049346] DMAR-IR:[Firmware Bug] : ioapic 2 has no mappin iommu,
>> interrupt remapping will be disabled
>> /dev/sda2: clean, 348430/7118848 files, 7186186/28466432 blocks
>> [ 3.895353] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] No Caching mode page found
>> [ 3.895361] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write trhough
>> [FAILED] Failed to start Network Manager Wait Online.
>> See "systemctl status NetwrokManager-wait-online.service" for details.
>> then a list of things starting all [OK]
>>
>> and then nothing happens
>>
>> Switching the machine off and re-starting it into the advance option i
>> get some root access and i see al my files.I am not able to connect to the 
>> internet
>> When trying to do something like apt-get update
>> the system returns that a shared library libapt-pkg.so.4.12 is not
>> installed.
>> but I have no internet access so I cannot either find the lib or install
>> it. And so I cannot update the system and it feels like a catch 22
>> I could really do with some help
>
> I don"t know, but maybe I can help with the network, do an "#ifconfig
> -a" to get the name of your interface and then "#ifconfig
> (name-of-interface) up" and see if that helps get things going.

I suspect this has to do with the settings of systemd trying to bring a
functional network up before it completes the sequence, but as it is
set to give up at a point it finds yet a different place to get stuck.
I remember a while I had found where to set the time limit but didn't
record the find and while on wifi I have to deal with this delayed booting
myself.
But, on the above problem out of curiosity I found this piece that may
be helpful.  https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2254677
It seems on such machines the interrupts get all twisted and tangled
up.  Quote from the link:
"The ivrs table is wrong, it points to non existant IOAPIC[0] and IOAPIC[255], 
so to override this i use this commandline in grub:
ivrs_ioapic[7]=00:14.0 ivrs_ioapic[8]=00:00.1."

Re: RE : ... blah lbah blah ... spam

[Fungi4All]

From: geo...@nsup.org
>Le nonidi 19 thermidor, an CCXXV, Thomas Schmitt a écrit :
>> Further, if this spam shall sneak through spam filters, why does nearly
>> all of it bear that peculiar URL domain ?
>
>Because that is the URL that the spammer wants to advertise, of course.
Not true, look closely at the links, they are all different, they forward to
the same site. So you can not screen by it
Here are the last 5
http : //bit.ly/2vBXTKq
http : //bit.ly/2vtmktp
http : //bit.ly/2u4JToE
http : //bit.ly/2u4oj3x
http : //bit.ly/2ud5DyE
https://bitly.com/
I am sure the folks at bitly.com know who made these links
>Nicolas George

Re: RE : ... blah lbah blah ... spam

[Fungi4All]

>Clever. Yes, going by the headers, those seem genuine replies to spam.

> The spam is crafted in a way (cc) that the reply lands here (for the
> spammer, this distribution channel is what they want). The Goozim
> bit seems compelling :)
> Cheers
> -- t

I am confident that the reply is the spam, but a quick look on some of them
reveals that the link is never the same, but a short link to the spammer's site.
So no matter how many times you will screen for the short link a new one
will keep being forwarded.
The problem is that it is very easy eye-balling the subject line patterns you 
can
easily pick the spam off in one take. What your eye can do no software will
learn to do. Some german, some french, some english. Patterns in all.
Maybe someone who has invented a new AI learning spam filter is trying to
promote it this way. How do we know that the internet's most high-volume
member lists do not all have the same patterned messages? I bet debian is
not the only one. Has anyone figured out what vulnerability of 
windows/os/androig
is this site exploring? It might be a statistical model research for how easy it
is to draw people into something with ill-motives. Maybe it is someone's
dissertation on spam and malware.

Remove: MS Office 365 Users

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: August 1, 2017 8:14 PM
> From: melissa.qu...@uniqueprotech.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Hi,
> Would you be interested in MS Office 365 Users contact list?
>
> Features:
> • 85% on email, 90% on other Data. 100% opt-in to receive third party 
> information.
> • Name, Title, Email, Phone Number, Company name, Web Address, Physical 
> Address, SIC Code, Industry, Company Size (Employee and revenue).
> • Excel or CSV. Format for unlimited usage
> • We can provide you database from North America, Latin America, EMEA and APAC
> • Verified, validated, accurate and up-to-date contact details of users, 
> customers and business professionals
>
> we also have other technologies users:
>
> Zoho Office
>
> IBM Lotus
>
> SoftMaker
>
> AppleWorks
>
> IBM Cognos
>
> QlikView
>
> Tibco Spotfire
>
> Tableau Server
>
> Intermedia
>
> And Many More...
>
> Please review and let me know if you are interested and I will get back to 
> you with more information for the same.
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa Quinn
> Data Specialist
>
> To opt-out response ‘Remove’ in the subject line.

I am sure there is some good paying customer for tor-browser users
You wouldn't have such a list now, would you?
Is spam better than moderation, I always thought so.

Re: Live recording

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: August 1, 2017 10:45 PM
> From: delop...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> Rodolfo Medina  writes:
>>
>>> What I want to do is recording live piano: I"d like to use two mics for
>>> that,
>>> one on the grave and the other one on the high notes. Besides, some
>>> times I will need to add human voice: this requires, in my idea, a third
>>> microphone... But even starting with two would be all right for now...
>>> Those recordings would not pretend to be professional, just home made for
>>> my personal tests, but stereo.
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for the abundant information and suggestions of possible
>> solutions. As much as I can understand, the simplest solution for me to
>> live recording with several microphones is to buy a - say - 6 channel
>> mixer and plug it into the line-in PC entry...
>>
>> Rodolfo
> The simplest way is to use external mixer, but look forward to get one with
> the inputs for low/high impedance (input for mic and line) for each
> channel. Some simple mixers have only 1-2 low (mic) inputs and more high
> inputs. The mic inputs on the mixer are 3 contacts/wires. The line inputs
> are 2 or could be 3 - stereo. Here for example
> http://www.studiomasterprofessional.com/product/item/209
> You could however go the cheep way and play with multiple usb/pci audio
> cards, jack and free audio software
> If you want to experiment with linux and audio recording, you could look for
> a supported multichannel audiocards and play with jack or audacity or some
> other free software which will spare the external mixer.

My cheap and primitive way was to use two pc,s if you already have them, and
record two mono tracks, then use mixing software to align them and blend them.
There is plenty of such software available on debian and the quality is within 
the
guidelines of your mic quality, placement, echo/background noise.
I use headphones for the backing track and rarely use a second mic for guitar
then blend the two. As I have been away from home and haven't done it for a
while don't ask me for names of packages.

Re: how to run a second copy of firefox in a separate address space with no connection to the first?

[Fungi4All]

> From: dan.h...@gmail.com
> To: Sven Hartge 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Thanks Sven, and also Erwan, Curt, rpr, and Felix,
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Sven Hartge  wrote:
>> Dan Hitt  wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to run a second copy of firefox in debian, that is
>>> completely unconnected to the first.
>>
>>> That is, the second copy should not share history, cookies, any kind
>>> of storage, passwords, configuration, or anything else with the first.
>>> It should be possible to send a signal to one (such as kill) without
>>> the other being aware of it.
>>
>>> In essence it should run parallel to firefox like a clone (e.g., Pale
>>> Moon), except using the same binary. (But i"d be willing to copy the
>>> binary if there were an easy way to just change its name to firefox2
>>> or something.)
>>
>> Make a new user on your system, and start firefox as that user via sudo,
>> adding the option "--no-remote" to the firefox command line.
>>
>> You might need to add
>>
>> Defaults env_reset,env_keep+="DISPLAY XAUTHORITY"
>>
>> to your /etc/sudoers to allow any programm running as the other user
>> access to your X session.
> This is a very good solution for my particular use case.
> I had actually used profiles before, but not so satisfactorily. But
> that was some years ago, and may have been due to my general
> ineptness.
> My only modification on the solution is to use "xhost +" instead of
> giving extra privs to the new user. This is all on a very isolated
> lan so hopefully no holes there.
> It has the advantage that i"m certain that information from one
> firefox cannot possibly leak into the other. And one side effect,
> which i think can sometimes be an advantage, is that the downloads
> cannot mix either.
> dan

All good ideas if you trust mozilla to behave itself.
You can also run it in jail with firejail for example. It is like a little 
container just for firefox.
My 2c on top of all those good suggestions.
Also try gksu if you have a 2nd user.

Re: Cannot read my draft emails.

[Fungi4All]

> From: kensli...@teksavvy.com
> In my Jessie box I recently converted from Icedove to Thunderbird
> 52.2.1. As part of that conversion I also upgraded Enigmail to version
> 2:1.8.2-4~deb8u1 which is in the Thunderbird extensions list.
> Before the conversion I never encrypted my emails, but I did digitally
> sign them. I expected to be able to do the same with Thunderbird and
> presumably so far I nave done so.
> I now in Drafts emails which I now want to edit and send. When I try to
> open them for editing in the text section nothing appears except this
> message:
> This is an encrypted OpenPGP message.
> In order to decrypt this mail, you need to install an OpenPGP add-on.
> In addition to Enigmail I also have gnupg 1.4.18-7+deb8u3,
> gnupg-agent 2.0.26-6+deb8u1 and gnupg2 installed, as well as six
> packages with pgp in their names. I find it however strange that
> apt-cache no longer finds those packages. I also find it strange none of
> the options in the Thunderbird Enigmail menu is operative. If something
> else is needed, what would it be?
> In short, can anyone tell me what is going on? I want my email client back!

You should direct your comments to the Mozilla corporation, as you and many
of us were passed on as customers to "it". I have since cleaned my pc of all 
this
'free" crap under that name. I guess running paintbrush in wine might not be
as bad as running "free" software in debian.

Re: gdm login console keyboard settings are propagated to LUKS boot password prompt by initramfs-tools triggers

[Fungi4All]

From: david.gu...@europecamions-interactive.com

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Hello, there.
> I noticed a strange thing: I use LUKS to encrypt my system, so it asks
> me the passphrase at boot. As a bépo (a French Dvorak-like keymap)
> user, I configured it, using Gnome preferences panel, on the gdm login
> screen, as the only available keymap.
> I noticed that, when aptitude runs, for any reason, initramfs-tools
> ,..snip...WARNING: Unknown X keysym "dead_greek"
> The missing firmware messages are OK, as you would think, but setupcon and 
> dead_greek stuff are something else. The dead_greek part hints for a relation 
> with bépo, as this keymap is supposed to have a greek dead key, which allows 
> to type Greek letters using the Latin equivalent. I say "supposed" as Debian 
> does not support it yet.
> The consequence (if not post hoc ergo propter hoc) of these messages 
> appearing is that it makes the LUKS passphrase prompt to use bépo. Now I know 
> it, it"s not really a problem for typing the passphrase, but I really think 
> this is a bug, as there was no clear warning about this side effect, neither 
> from the triggers nor from Gnome Preferences. I used bépo under Jessie, but 
> not for gdm3 login screen, and these bépo-related stuff never appeared, so I 
> assume that it appeared as a consequence the use of bépo as the default 
> keymap for gdm login screen.
> I assume that the change of the default keymap for the gdm login screen is, 
> in fact, a change of the keymap of the root user, and that, when the 
> initramfs-tools triggers are fired, they propagate the new keymap to the LUKS 
> prompt.

Here is an interesting LUKS related bug!
https://bugs.manjaro.org/index.php?do=details_id=72=severity=desc
FS#72 - (calamares) luks accepts every WRONG password after install
What is wrong?
Using the build in encryption option of the manjaro installer.
Creating 3 encrypted partitions with the same password. / /home swap
Rebooting after installation and typing in the WRONG password decrypts the 
drives.
What is supposed to happen?
the system is not supposed to be able to decrypt the drives with the wrong 
password

I believe they must have been not really encrypted and it is just showing 
wrong, as they were.
A partition manager should be able to show what is really going on.

Re: funding & viability questions of GPL enforcement.

[Fungi4All]

> From: joel.r...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:29 AM, Alessandro Vesely <ves...@tana.it> wrote:
>> On Thu 20/Jul/2017 22:18:25 +0200 Fungi4All wrote:
>>>[...]
>>
>>> For linux we all need to agree before we decide.
>>
>> Yeah, that"s a pita. It"s hard to change anything if everyone can veto.
> That"s sure indication that everything is getting too big -- the companies,
> of course, but also the projects, the software, ...
> ... and the egos.

Under the same logic how can it all be considered one "big" thing with so
many different participants? Are companies, projects, developers, sysadmins,
and users all equal parties? Do companies have egos? No, they have one
motive to make money and become the only player and decision maker.
What all these different entities need is organization, each with distinct goals
and principles of organization. Then each community will have its own
voice, cooperate with others, and form a direction, if that is possible.
In every industry there ever was when standards (of cooperation) were
developed there was development in the direction the industry had set.
This chaotic system of each one doing their own thing and see where it
gets everyone seems to be coming to an end. And at this end some are
more organized to benefit from the whole than others.
In terms of debian, it is an utopian proposition to expect it to compete as
a semi-democratic institution among the dictatorships. It also unthinkable
that individuals can have an influence among organizations. The
binding licensing agreements will in the future be either abolished or
will not be enforced as much as to matter, as far as being obstacles
to corporations making money.

Re: memory.limit_in_bytes: systemd vs lxc

[Fungi4All]

> From: jode...@gmail.com
> To: Harald Dunkel 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org
> On 25-07-17, Harald Dunkel wrote:
>> Hi Dejan,
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 09:43:30 +0200
>> Dejan Jocic  wrote:
>>
>> > On 24-07-17, Harald Dunkel wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Apparently systemd ignores the restricted memory. How can I tell
>> > > systemd to keep the limits?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Every helpful comment is highly appreciated
>> > > Harri
>> > >
>> >
>> > Never did it myself, but perhaps this can help you:
>> >
>> > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#LimitCPU=
>> >
>> >
>> Thanx for the pointer, but I think this is a misunderstanding.
>> I want systemd to keep(!) the limits, not have another local
>> config file. Systemd should not be allowed to extend the limits
>> bound to the container, no matter what.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Harri
> Well, I agree with you, it should not. But other solution would be to
> file bug against systemd. Hopefully, you will get answer other then "it
> is feature, not bug" :P

But is this feature trully unlimited other than by your hardware?

Re: how to automatically reload a firefox page

[Fungi4All]

>From: phenomena...@yandex.com

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Hi Steve
> The add-on Tab Mix Plus has an option under Menu to add "Reload every ..." to 
> the tab"s context menu. The add-on may be overkill if you just want that 
> reload option, but I do know it works.
> Kind regards
> Jan
> 24.07.2017, 14:56, "Steve Kleene" :
>> I"m looking for an automated way to have firefox-esr reload its window at
>> regular intervals. There"s a site to which I like to stay connected that
>> logs me off if the window is inactive for long.
>>
>> For the past few years I"ve been using the ReloadEvery plugin for this. With
>> the upgrade to firefox-esr 52, though, this stopped working, probably as
>> explained here:
>>
>> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/
>>
>> I tried the newest ReloadEvery (v45) available online, but it still doesn"t
>> work. Before ReloadEvery, I used to set up a shell command that would
>> periodically do this:
>>
>> /usr/bin/iceweasel -remote openurl\([URL]\)
>>
>> The -remote call also no longer works. Any other ideas on how to do this?
>> Thanks.

How about making a local web page reloadpage.html where you include the
command to reload evert 234 seconds

and make a table which includes the webpage you want to stay active on within 
your local
page.

Re: Feedback

[Fungi4All]

> From: anonym...@hoi-polloi.org
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Hello!
> Today I downloaded the latest release of Debian, the 9.1 i386 XFCE Live. I 
> downloaded as a torrent by the earlier Debian 9.0.1 x64 XFCE. I experienced 
> (sorry my poor english!) that the LibreOffice Writer couldn"t start and the 
> system can give only 1GB free space (!). I don"t like the mount other volumes 
> or external USB tools when I use a live unsafe system because the safety, but 
> for 1GB free space is good for nothing, sorry!
> Later I found an harmful "thing" on the machine, the system automatically 
> logged out and asked my login names and passwords many times and not only in 
> the Debian the problem was same in other linux too.Maybe this harmful "thing" 
> caused the overmentioned problems (LibreOffice and fev free space), but I 
> don"t think. I don"t know yet that my machine when infected, but maybe when I 
> downloaded the new release?
> I knowing that the torrent client is checking the hash of the downloaded 
> files, but I think this is not hundred percent :-)
> Now, I would like to thank"s your work! Greatings from Hungary!

It sounds like a USB with bad/infected firmware or one of those things
that are not USB sticks at all. But, if I do understand correctly,
you are trying to install from a live image into the left over USB stick?
Did you take a loot with a partitioning tool what the disk looks like?
How big was it originally, and was the rest of the free space
partitioned properly?
The next thing that people have said here 1000 times (in the archives
of the list you can search live and installer) is not to use the the installer
from withing the live image. Use the graphical installer without booting
live. The live-installer is and has been crap for a long time.
I don't understand what libreoffice has to do with anything, please try
again. It makes no sense, to me anyway.

Re: debian 6 download)

[Fungi4All]

> From: go...@oles.biz
> On 07/23/2017 05:21 AM, Georgi Naplatanov wrote:
>> On 07/23/2017 05:04 AM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
>>> On 23/07/17 04:56, arshad mahmood wrote:
 Hi do you know how I can down load debian 6 server is free to download
 load or will I need to buy it through a vendor regards
>>>
>>> Debian 6 (squeeze) images are free to download but have been moved to
>>> the archives.
>>>
>>> Media images are in the cdimage archive:
>>> http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/
>>>
>>> Packages are on archive.debian.org:
>>> http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/
>>>
>>> Debian 9 (stretch) has been released. Have you considered using this
>>> newer, supported release?
>>>
>>
>> There is a list with supported Debian releases including LTS and Debian
>> 7 is oldest supported release.
>>
>> https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
> Hi Arshad,
> if you have no restriction for Debian 6 only then you can try CentOS 6.
> CentOS 6 has similar packages" version to Debian 6 and it"s still supported.
> Kind regards
> Georgi

If it is systemd you are trying to avoid and you start with 6 the upgrade to 7
is safe. It works like a cheetah and it still gets all security upgrades till 
late '18
If you make the mistake and go to Jessie from there, either you accept
systemd or you will be broken, but you can always upgrade from 7 to
Devuan.
To tell my honest story from bouncing around and trying stuff, Manjaro OpenRC
for me seems bulletproof. I am writing now from a tortured ManjOpenrc with
kernels up to 4.12.2 and it is solid.
My experience with Debian trying to avoid systemd has send it down the tubes
of my respect. I hate to admit it, but I gave it one hell of a try and it 
failed me.

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> On Wed 19 Jul 2017 at 18:21:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>> Fungi4All composed on 2017-07-19 17:39 (UTC-0400):
>> > > 27 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
>> > Need to get 68.5 MB of archives.> After this operation, 242 MB of 
>> > additional disk space will be used.
>> > Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
>> > Abort.
>>
>> > $ sudo apt-get upgrade
>> ...
>> > 25 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
>> > Need to get 21.1 MB of archives.
>> > After this operation, 145 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>> > Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
>> > Abort.
>>
>> Prezactly! ;-)
> The different results with apt upgrade as opposed to apt-get upgrade
> are due to apt installing new packages, something which apt-get will
> not do. Use apt-get dist-upgrade for that. The end result is the same.

I took your advise and used apt-get only across 4 Debian editions.
It did not stop systemd from being installed all on its own.
I started with 7, pretty minimal sysV and runit, slim, openbox, midori,
2-3 lxde pieces to save time and hustle, tried to go to 8. Every step
systemd was installing I would take it off before I would restart. I couldn't
even get the kernel to install properly. I would restore the initial 7 and
tried to go to 9. Same ol, same ol. Testing  I gave up and didn't even
try to go straight to sid :)
I thought maybe I can build a devuan. I would lose net-manager all the
time and with wifi it became the impossible task to achieve.
I don't remember how many times I had to remove firefox, deluge,
and some other commercial "free" software.
So much for the apt-get not installing shit on its own.
But if it was that easy it wouldn't have taken Devuan so long to get it
done.

Re: False dichotomy [was: Apt vs apt-get]

[Fungi4All]

> From: recovery...@gmail.com
> Hi.
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:18:04 +0200
> Frank <zuiderd...@gmx.com> wrote:
>> Op 20-07-17 om 18:58 schreef Fungi4All:
>> > Does it matter what we all think, even if agree or it matters what
>> > the manual of the package says. In my installation this is manual
>> > I found, it says apt all over the place, meanwhile there is apt-get
>> > package to install. /usr/share/man/man8/apt-get.8.gz
>> >
>> > In my repositories the only mention of apt-get is in cron-apt
>> > and its dependency says apt. Its description says:
>> > automatic update of packages using apt-get
>> > There is also apt-utils, dep apt, apt-get not mentioned
>>
>> What are you on about? Are you even aware of what this set of tools
>> actually is? You certainly make it sound like you aren"t.
> At other places in Internet they warn you about feeding the trolls. Or
> not doing it. I forgot, which one it is. Just a firendly reminder.
> Reco

I don't know to whom you are referring as a troll but I haven't even
expressed an opinion on such a dichotomy. I have simply reported
puzzling findings, in an effort to clarify what the difference is in
simpler terms than those documented. What it used to be and what
it is now. Just a few days ago the use of the one and "maybe" not
the other, caused a needed package instead of upgrading to vanish.
I had to reverse to a different repository, pick it up and lock it in
place.
If this sounds like trolling activity please define trolling.
If you are referring to someone else, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Re: funding & viability questions of GPL enforcement.

[Fungi4All]

> On Wed 19/Jul/2017 23:14:35 +0200 Martin Read wrote:
>> On 19/07/17 12:17, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>>> One my wonder why GRSecurity is not (optionally) included in Linux.
>>
>> For a variety of reasons relating to the personalities and opinions of the
>> people who would be involved - on both sides - in making it happen.
>>
>> It should be noted that some people who are not part of the grsec project 
>> *are*
>> trying to incrementally move the less performance-impactful features of grsec
>> into the mainline kernel.
> Yes, the example I had in mind was this:
> https://lwn.net/Articles/725203/
> Of course, nobody dislikes security. Making it neat and clear is another
> question, and that"s why experiments are needed. Can we consider Linux and
> GRSecurity as entities cooperating with each other in that respect?

GRS is a formal hierarchical organization, a very different single endity than 
the
linux "thing". A community of many different entities, in size and shape. Not
a formal organization, I don't think. How can the two different things 
communicate,
let alone cooperate? Let's just home each does their thing and share what they
do and leave it at that. Only equals can communicate, coordinate, and cooperate.
So linux as a whole can hardly be imagined to be in communication with anything
else.

> Ale

I vote against such cooperating proposals as such would try to shape and
change what linux is. If grs and debian can cooperate that would be an issue
for them to decide. For linux we all need to agree before we decide.

Re: Apt vs apt-get [Was: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?]

[Fungi4All]

> Op 20-07-17 om 18:58 schreef Fungi4All:
>> Does it matter what we all think, even if agree or it matters what
>> the manual of the package says. In my installation this is manual
>> I found, it says apt all over the place, meanwhile there is apt-get
>> package to install. /usr/share/man/man8/apt-get.8.gz
>>
>> In my repositories the only mention of apt-get is in cron-apt
>> and its dependency says apt. Its description says:
>> automatic update of packages using apt-get
>> There is also apt-utils, dep apt, apt-get not mentioned
> What are you on about? Are you even aware of what this set of tools
> actually is? You certainly make it sound like you aren"t.
> Apart from a number of packages with related utilities, there has only
> ever been a package called apt. So that"s what people refer to. You
> won"t find an apt-get or apt-cache package. Those are just executables
> provided by the apt package.
> Until (faily) recently, the apt package had no executable called apt.
> Look at the apt manpage. Among other things, it mentions what this "new"
> executable was created for. And this bit is particularly interesting:
> All features of apt(8) are available in dedicated APT tools like apt-
> get(8) and apt-cache(8) as well. apt(8) just changes the default value
> of some options (see apt.conf(5) and specifically the Binary scope).
> So you should prefer using these commands (potentially with some
> additional options enabled) in your scripts as they keep backward
> compatibility as much as possible.
> In other words, by all means use apt on the command line, just don"t do
> it in scripts. That ought to tell you something.

It told me, all I needed to know. Thanks!

Re: French revolution (OT reply) (was intelijammer)

[Fungi4All]

> Hello Doug,
>>Is this French?
> Quite likely.
>>but is this year 225? Dated from when?
> Given the above, I"d say it"s the French Republican (aka Revolutionary)
> Calendar.

Revolution was 1789 (13 years after americans revolted for the same reasons).
2017-1789=228
The revolution was under the slogan freedom - equality - solidarity
The end of the revolution was 1792, when "equality" was dropped.
So 225 is the number of years of the suppression of the revolution.
This is what reactionaries will celebrate, but not for long.
Not for long :)

Re: Apt vs apt-get [Was: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?]

[Fungi4All]

> From: deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Agreed. I was beginning to despair of this list while reading through
> this thread. But we seem to live in times when evidence matters less
> and less, and assertion more and more.
> Sorry about the politics. Anyway, AFAICT according to the Release
> Notes, apt-get is preferred over aptitude for the upgrade from
> jessie to stretch (where this is relevant); according to the
> Installation Manual, apt is the tool of choice, though no preference
> is expressed over apt-get which is not mentioned.

Does it matter what we all think, even if agree or it matters what
the manual of the package says. In my installation this is manual
I found, it says apt all over the place, meanwhile there is apt-get
package to install. /usr/share/man/man8/apt-get.8.gz
In my repositories the only mention of apt-get is in cron-apt
and its dependency says apt. Its description says:
automatic update of packages using apt-get
There is also apt-utils, dep apt, apt-get not mentioned
Aptitude is recommended by apt.
If a script in /usr/bin said apt-get = apt would you still use it?
Or I could call it pacman or yogurt or apt-get-from-2-decades-ago
Nevertheless, the data showed there can be some difference
still between the one and the other, in rare occassions like 2
different sid installations of similar packages and similar amd64
machines. How 'bout them apples?

Re: apt-get autoclean configuration

[Fungi4All]

> From: solit...@mail.com
> The thing is that it"s not obvious to me that you can set any of the values:
> "true", "on", "yes" vs. "false", "off", "no".

A bit off topic, but in some places the ^ means high in others it means low
on top. As in file managers and taks managers. Whatsupwitdat?
But every other conf/rc file I edit has its own set of unique syntax.
Shouldn't there be some linux standardization to include some such minor
details? Maybe a linux savoir-vivre manual (hey, I got that spelling right)

user shutingdown/rebooting system w/wo sudo

[Fungi4All]

Apart from what different wm/dm do, should a user without sudo
priviledges be able to stop or restart a system?
In most wm I have seen the user is able to do this without being
asked for root priviledges and I believe this is wrong and should
not be done.
As I see contradictory reading material on the issue from the
point of view of a single user personal system to an enterprise
system, why would any desktop come with this activated as
default and not be the other way around but with a simple option
for root to change/activate this ability.
I suspect that systemd with its countless strange service users
has complicated this issue, but is this practice secure?

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> One picture is worth a thousand words:

Here is a picture from my backup machine
$ sudo apt upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
linux-headers-4.11.0-2-amd64 linux-headers-4.11.0-2-common 
linux-image-4.11.0-2-amd64
The following packages have been kept back:
libqupzilla1 qupzilla
The following packages will be upgraded:
bind9-host dnsutils git git-man gnome-keyring host libaudit1 libbind9-140 
libdns-export162 libdns162
libfaad2 libgutenprint2 libisc-export160 libisc160 libisccc140 libisccfg140 
liblwres141
libpam-gnome-keyring libsmbclient libwbclient0 linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86 
linux-headers-amd64
linux-image-amd64 linux-kbuild-4.11 linux-libc-dev printer-driver-gutenprint 
samba-libs
27 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
Need to get 68.5 MB of archives.
After this operation, 242 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.
$ sudo apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
libqupzilla1 linux-headers-amd64 linux-image-amd64 qupzilla
The following packages will be upgraded:
bind9-host dnsutils git git-man gnome-keyring host libaudit1 libbind9-140 
libdns-export162 libdns162
libfaad2 libgutenprint2 libisc-export160 libisc160 libisccc140 libisccfg140 
liblwres141
libpam-gnome-keyring libsmbclient libwbclient0 linux-compiler-gcc-6-x86 
linux-kbuild-4.11 linux-libc-dev
printer-driver-gutenprint samba-libs
25 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
Need to get 21.1 MB of archives.
After this operation, 145 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.
$ sudo synaptic
Hey hey hey!!!
Synaptic did the apt way not the apt-get way.
Difference, the linux-image files
This is on sid though, and the op was on stretch but I ain't going back.

> root@stretch:~# apt-get install exim4
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> The following additional packages will be installed:
> exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light guile-2.0-libs libfribidi0 
> libgc1c2 libgsasl7 libkyotocabinet16v5
> liblzo2-2 libmailutils5 libmariadbclient18 libntlm0 libpython2.7 
> libpython2.7-minimal libpython2.7-stdlib
> mailutils mailutils-common mysql-common psmisc
> Suggested packages:
> eximon4 exim4-doc-html | exim4-doc-info spf-tools-perl swaks mailutils-mh 
> mailutils-doc
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
> exim4 exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light guile-2.0-libs libfribidi0 
> libgc1c2 libgsasl7
> libkyotocabinet16v5 liblzo2-2 libmailutils5 libmariadbclient18 libntlm0 
> libpython2.7 libpython2.7-minimal
> libpython2.7-stdlib mailutils mailutils-common mysql-common psmisc
> 0 upgraded, 20 newly installed, 0 to remove and 58 not upgraded.
> Need to get 11.0 MB/11.5 MB of archives.
> After this operation, 42.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
> Abort.
> root@stretch:~#
> root@stretch:~#
> root@stretch:~#
> root@stretch:~# apt install exim4
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> The following additional packages will be installed:
> exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light guile-2.0-libs libfribidi0 
> libgc1c2 libgsasl7 libkyotocabinet16v5
> liblzo2-2 libmailutils5 libmariadbclient18 libntlm0 libpython2.7 
> libpython2.7-minimal libpython2.7-stdlib
> mailutils mailutils-common mysql-common psmisc
> Suggested packages:
> eximon4 exim4-doc-html | exim4-doc-info spf-tools-perl swaks mailutils-mh 
> mailutils-doc
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
> exim4 exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light guile-2.0-libs libfribidi0 
> libgc1c2 libgsasl7
> libkyotocabinet16v5 liblzo2-2 libmailutils5 libmariadbclient18 libntlm0 
> libpython2.7 libpython2.7-minimal
> libpython2.7-stdlib mailutils mailutils-common mysql-common psmisc
> 0 upgraded, 20 newly installed, 0 to remove and 58 not upgraded.
> Need to get 11.0 MB/11.5 MB of archives.
> After this operation, 42.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

And HURRAY!!!
samba (2:4.6.5+dfsg-5) unstable; urgency=medium
The samba service has been removed. Use the individual services instead:
* nmbd
* smbd
* samba-ad-dc
-- Mathieu Parent  Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:52:05 +0200
I had forgotten I had done this to backup my friends crappy machine.
Left the backdoor open. Thanks Mathieu!

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

> From: a...@cityscape.co.uk
> On Wed 19 Jul 2017 at 16:20:21 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> One picture is worth a thousand words:
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

n

> Which should be trusted more. apt-get or apt?

I've always liked apt. It is four keystrokes shorter

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

From: nemomm...@gmail.com

> On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 14:32:04 -0400 Dan Ritter 
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 10:29:02AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> > Getting no results from apt-get upgrade after a week. Can install
>> > apps, etc., but get no security or stretch-update "fixes," etc. I
>> > find this unusual. Did a mail list archive search for this, but
>> > didn"t find anything specific. Or did I miss the solution?
>>
>> Did you do an apt-get update before your upgrade?
> Yes. I"ve been using Debian since Sarge. So, this isn"t my first
> rodeo. But this is the first time I"ve ever had this occur. I"m
> beginning to think this might be an installer "problem" (I did a
> terminal only mnimal install to begin with) even though sources.list
> and configs look okay. I"m going to do a "default" install with the
> LXDE desktop and see if I have the same problem.

Since you insist without any evidence that apt-get does a better
job, can you spare us the courtesy of telling us what mirror are
you using? It is a possible explanation, since you "verified" that
auto-upgrade is not installed (or was uninstalled after your installation
maybe). And mirrors have failed in the past.

> B

Just a thought

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

> From: mrma...@earthlink.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Fungi4All composed on 2017-07-19 15:18 (UTC-0400):
>>> mrma...@earthlink.net composed:
> ...
>>> Did you miss that in Stretch apt is preferred to apt-get?
>> But will there be different results with apt upgrade than with apt-get?
> Will: I have no idea.
> Can: Yes.
> Apt and apt-get are not identical twins.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

This is on sid:
I know a static picture from a system already upgraded is no indicator but
I run 4 commands out of curiocity and got identical 4 responses about
removing some no longer needed pkgs which I do not all want to be
autoremoved.
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt dist-upgrade
apt-get upgrade
apt upgrade
No difference, nothing to be upgraded, 2 pkgs held back, about
15 other packages can be removed as no longer needed.
Included was the buster 4.9.03 image which I want to keep around as
I think it will be an LTS and as a backup in case something upgraded
breaks. Even after I locked 4.9.03 the image came up on the list
but I am sure the autoremove would not have removed it.
I haven't actually checked but I think they have been merged as one
In synaptic the term apt-get only exists in cron-apt description.
The /etc/apt directory seems to be getting more and more complex.

Re: Apt-get Upgrade Problem in Stretch?

[Fungi4All]

> From: mrma...@earthlink.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Patrick Bartek composed on 2017-07-19 10:29 (UTC-0700):
>> Getting no results from apt-get upgrade after a week. Can install apps,
>> etc., but get no security or stretch-update "fixes," etc. I find
>> this unusual. Did a mail list archive search for this, but didn"t find
>> anything specific. Or did I miss the solution?
>> My Test Setup:
>> Stretch Stable 64-bit from net-install disk in Virtualbox 5.1 on a
>> Wheezy host. Basic terminal install (no GUI), converted to sysvinit
>> (did not do anything to systemd files. Kept as dependencies) and then
>> added xorg, openbox window manager, etc.
>> Thanks for any feedback.
> Did you miss that in Stretch apt is preferred to apt-get?

But will there be different results with apt upgrade than with apt-get?
After the previous discussion about dist-upgrade I find this confusing.

Re: Free software

[Fungi4All]

> From: dmcgarr...@optonline.net
> To: Gene Heskett , debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> I thought I put this to bed, but apparently not. 

You thought well because if we are clarifying the description
of reality we can not utilize the grocery store logic of choice. Either
one final thought convinces everyone that it is correct or there
still is room for discussion. I have no beef with nvidia in specific,
they are just as bad as any for-profit organization, so it is not
specific.

> I"ve stated my case. Let"s drop it here!

But this is the problem, you can not be one sided in having
the authority to end a conversation. If Nvidia one day decides
it is not profiting from their little monopoly and decides to
fold its gc production and r, they have the "legal right" to
destroy all knowledge produced and owned by them. The
work and findings of hundreds of people developing nvidia
products is in the hands of one entity (stock-holders).
The state gives them the right to conduct this atrocity of
destroying knowledge and deny society access to it, even
when it has no value for them anymore.
I believe society has the right to criticize this mutual practice
by state and owner of knowledge. Any industry is a school for
society and it exists due to lack of alternatives for society.
This is what we are talking about, I think. Internalizing the
logic of the capitalist and its puppet the state, the logic of
market, into our conversation as "logical" is a product of
propaganda and demagogues of the media and other
"institutions". A society must be able to survive having
alternatives past capitalism.
This is why communities as debian and linux are under attack
by capitalists of all sorts so they can blackmail society not to
be able to survive without them.
So whose side are you on boyz? Autonomy, or dependency?

> --doug

You can put it to rest now if you like. I suspect you might not.
But should this conversation be open to everyone? Should
stockholders and executives of large corporations participate
freely? What if they hire professional writers and debaters
to participate and advocate their interests?
(AK)
PS Before you (anyone) go off topic and criticize my email
practice (common practice here to escape the issue) please
refer me to a safe and anonymous way of participating on
the list because I trust protonmail more than many people
on this list to record my connection. Protonmail still has no
pop or imap. I prefer using ascii as well in writing and
reading, but we do not live in a free world.

Re: video driver?

[Fungi4All]

From: to...@tuxteam.de
>Because there"s more control by civil society of the tools shaping
>our future?
What control does society have over science and technology? None!
What control does society have over religious beliefs? None!
What control does society have over media and information? None!
What control does society have over its future? None!
>Some folks are even crazy enough to complain about injustice
>inflicted to minorities they don"t belong to. Go figure.
What control does society have over injustice done? None!
>
>Honestly, I prefer a society like that.
At some point talk is cheap, it may be time to act and take it all back

Re: so much for your ascii only emails and 80 char lines :)

[Fungi4All]

From: geo...@nsup.org
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Le decadi 30 messidor, an CCXXV, mar...@martinbrandenburg.com a écrit :
> I don"t read messages from you or in fact anyone at your domain, except
> this one, because they"re written in base64.
=If you see the base64, then your mail software is broken or hopelessly
=outdated. Technically, this mail was conform to the standards: even
=though the base64 encoding was not necessary, it was perfectly legal.
=
=That does not mean you should read Fungi4All"s mails, though. But do not
=blame the form, blame the substance.
How do you say passive-agressive-psychopath in french? Tell me, I really
like to know!
=Regards,
=
=--
=Nicolas George

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:14:52AM +1000, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> www.debian.org -> "CD/USB ISO images"
> That"s where your eyes go? That"s interesting.

? what are you, an optometrist?

> My eyes skip the banner with its embedded "download me" link (because
> it"s a friggin" BANNER,

 More useless and invalid information from debian to waste our time,
is this what you mean?

> and decades of web use have taught me to skip all banners),

And your decades somehow translate into common sense?

> and skip the small print sections, and drop me straight
> to the link that says "obtain a copy" .

intuition and decades of scanning through useless information has
lead you to where you want to be?

> On the second page, there"s "Download an installation image" and
> "Try Debian live before installing".

Are you saying he did what it is told in the second page of your
intutive search? For how long has there been an icon on that live
desktop that says Install Debian? Or should I say for how long of
this icon being false information has it stood still?
Actually the icon does start the installer, it is about 40' later one
discovers it is incapable of installing the system.

> Sadly, the instructions under
> the "Try Debian live" link claim that the live image"s installer will
> work.

Sadly, don't take any instruction on the web page seriously. It is
all a beta web-page for when things will eventually work.

> We all know that it doesn"t, but the instructions continue to
> claim that it does.

"We" excludes which group of people, the poor guy who wasted
a few hours of his lige following instructions or is it the rest of the
humanity apart from the good'ol'boys at the debian-user-gang?

>> , then choose the only possibly
>> viable alternative to CD/DVD, since there"s no CD/DVD on the new host.
> You also skipped the "Network install" link right above your "CD/USB
> ISO images" link. I wonder why.

Please let "us" know what exactly network install mean, by refering us
to a specific explanation in the debian.org maze. Most "common" humans
would conclude that if you are a network manager and want to do
remote installs on machines this is what you use. If you are not the
network administrator use something "else".
But, we "all" know better, don't we gangsters. Debian is only good for
club menbers. Sorry guy, if you missed your sleep. You are not a member
of the group.

> On the page you went to, there are two yellow lightbulb boxes, one saying
> to use "Network Install" instead, and the second saying "all CD/DVD images
> can be used on a USB stick too".
> Somehow you skipped over those as well.

Only they obviously not all work on a USB stick.
Please don't listen to RedHat emploees trying to chase new users away
from Debian, be a little patient, unsubscribe from this list, and you will be 
ok!
WE are not all assholes here!

Re: Possible BUG - Qupzilla 2.1.2 in sid will not upgrade from 1.8.9

[Fungi4All]

>> Not a single response on why two packages exist in unstable that are 
>> incapable of being installed?
> That"s right …
>> Qupzilla 2.1.2 exists in the unstable repository as a replacement to 1.8.9 
>> that lies in testing.
>> But it is prevented to install as it would cause breakage. I can"t figure 
>> out why or which dependency conflicts.
>> It seems that there are dependencies that do not exist in sid, I have not 
>> made a detail search yet for which
>> are missing.
> … we"re all waiting.

qtwebengine5 among other qt5 stuff is all missing. Why would they place the 
packages on
which if not carefull would purge pkgs 1.8.9 (stretchnbuster) leaving one with 
no browser.
Some nasties will reply that it will spare them my webmail messages  Hey!!!

> Cheers,
> David.

(AK)

Re: Possible BUG - Qupzilla 2.1.2 in sid will not upgrade from 1.8.9

[Fungi4All]

Not a single response on why two packages exist in unstable that are incapable 
of being installed?
Qupzilla 2.1.2 exists in the unstable repository as a replacement to 1.8.9 that 
lies in testing.
But it is prevented to install as it would cause breakage. I can"t figure out 
why or which dependency conflicts.
It seems that there are dependencies that do not exist in sid, I have not made 
a detail search yet for which
are missing.
In Arch/Manjaro Qupzilla 2 has been in stable and works flawlessly for many 
many months.
The big difference with qz 1.8 and 1.9 is that the speller works again using 
hunspell transformed by qtwebkit which
the pkg relies heavily on.
A full upgrade went well, with the exception of 2 pkgs being held back and 
uninstallable.

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:55:26AM +0200, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
>> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so.
> No, the 9.0.1 Debian live images are still broken when used for
> installations. They fail to set a root password or to set up the primary
> user account with sudo access, at least in some cases. Users in Freenode
> #debian are constantly having to be told how to boot from rescue media
> to set the root password.
> WHY DO PEOPLE ATTEMPT TO INSTALL DEBIAN USING A LIVE CD IMAGE
> ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HASN"T WORKED IN MANY YEARS
> G
> Why don"t people use the installer to install?
> I just can"t understand.

Because not all people can do a proper installation with everything in their 
head
and on hardcopies. Some need some feedback on what is what because only
debianers would understand. I know, hard for you to even conceive that there
are people who do not know what a logical and an illogical partition is, or what
does it mean to install grub in sda or sda2, or why a root pw can be two letters
in the installer but needs to be 23 letters if you ever change it. Not all of 
these
people have a second online system to look things up. And what the hell is a
mirror and what difference does it make which one it is? Arch/Manjaro have
a pinging script that determines the fastest repos based on your current actual
connection. Geography doesn't mean Jack to net-topology, especially outside
the "inner world" the US. You can have an Isp in spain with a primary cable to
its french subsidiary, and the next building one that connects to Italy. The
mirror in Spain is connected to a server in Germany, and if you select it it is
three times as slow as the one in France. And debian is asking the user to
make a choice based on data on their head. G
How about live installers and systemD ... is there a connection?
Do I need to say why I think so and why live installers work like a charm
"elsewhere"? For yearS!
I can too testify that for DEBIAN the only thing they are good for is
to testify that the hardware is installation capable. That's all.
And this is not always, as there seems plenty of non-free stuff cripping
in those live images to ensure they would start and sell the customer
a service.

Re: Connessione wifi

[Fungi4All]

> On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 07:52:18 CEST Gabriele Cossetti wrote:
>> I"ve just installed Debian 9.0 on a IBM PC 386. I have the a
>> Sitecom N150 USB WI-FI adapter that won"t work after installation.
>>
>> What should I do to have it work?
> What"s the output of lsusb?

The N150 may be a trade name not yet listed but there is all kinds of sitecom
on here: https://wiki.debian.org/rtl819x
So install this firmware, install the non-free misc-firmware-non-free and
cross your fingers and pray to Berlusconi
You know how to include non-free repositories? Add contrib non-free next to
the main in /etc/apt/sources.list (sudo leafpad /etc/apt/sources.list) save and
update. sudo apt install rtl819x misc-firmware-nonfree
Reboot

Re: so much for your ascii only emails and 80 char lines :)

[Fungi4All]

Can you read it now?
Nobody has ever complained about the encoding of English before.
Unless you are the source of the spam!
From: fungil...@protonmail.com
It seems the virus has moved now to Turkey's smart phone community
If we do the stats in a month or two this will be 90% of the daily
traffic. When I use to run lists off of unix server and free open software
in the past decade I can block messages or content based on format
and based on coming from non-list members. Why is this so hard to
do?

Re: Can debian-live-9.0.1-i386-lxde be made to install from USB?

[Fungi4All]

From: jode...@gmail.com:
> This release of Debian came with buggy live images. It was fixed with
> 9.0.1 live images, or at least it seemed so. Perhaps you discovered bug
> in it that should be reported. Unfortunately, debian live images do not
> get much needed love and because of that are not really preferred method
> of installing. You should be fine with net install image, or with
> regular dvd-1 iso image, be it from usb, or from dvd.
Could there be a possiblity that the live-image installer included parts of
CD-1/dvd-1 of the installer so the installer want to make sure it has a handle
on the cd-r so when cd-2 will need to be entered it can pause the installation
properly?

Re: so much for your ascii only emails and 80 char lines :)

[Fungi4All]

It seems the virus has moved now to Turkey's smart phone community
If we do the stats in a month or two this will be 90% of the daily
traffic. When I use to run lists off of unix server and free open software
in the past decade I can block messages or content based on format
and based on coming from non-list members. Why is this so hard to
do?

Possible BUG - Qupzilla 2.1.2 in sid will not upgrade from 1.8.9

[Fungi4All]

Qupzilla 2.1.2 exists in the unstable repository as a replacement to 1.8.9 that 
lies in testing.
But it is prevented to install as it would cause breakage. I can"t figure out 
why or which dependency conflicts.
It seems that there are dependencies that do not exist in sid, I have not made 
a detail search yet for which
are missing.
In Arch/Manjaro Qupzilla 2 has been in stable and works flawlessly for many 
many months.
The big difference with qz 1.8 and 1.9 is that the speller works again using 
hunspell transformed by qtwebkit which
the pkg relies heavily on.
A full upgrade went well, with the exception of 2 pkgs being held back and 
uninstallable.

Re: ftp.no.debian.org mirror pointing to .se domain?

[Fungi4All]

>From: dan...@zift.no
>Hello.
>Just curious. I see that "ftp.no.debian.org" points to
>"ftp.se.debian.org". Do we no longer have proper mirror
>in Norway, or is this just a mistake?
>I am not subscribed to this list, so please CC me directly
>- Daniel
The svvedes have taken over this country and it will be in
the news tomorrow. You are just among the few that
noticed. The debian mirror was a primary target.
Alternatively, they could be restoring the server and
passed on the domain to a neighboring mirror till they
get it up and running. This will not make the news tomorrow.

Re: Thunderbird and OAuth

[Fungi4All]

From: boyan.pen...@gmail.com

> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Hello,
> Running Thunderbird on Stretch...
> For a host of reasons, calendar-provider has never worked for one
> particular gmail account I have, and I have tried using the calDAV
> interface to get the events imported and visible. To use this, Im
> relying on OAuth securing my login to google"s caldav api.
> The issue is when I start Thunderbird and get the Oauth login, none of
> the buttons respond -- the "next" button, when clicked, does not
> advance the UI window to the one where you type your password.

It is most likely that google keeps changing parameters so often as
to make nothing else work with their servers other than their own crappy
software. This way by the time package maintainer releases an update
and people receive it something changes again. One can barely keep
up with their webpages, news, etc with a simple browser.
Whenever I had to reinstall TB anywhere, the first thing I did was to
disable and uninstall the calendar "app". An email pkg should stick
to email and plugins should come separate. So mozilla is not that
much better than other corporations. Too bad debian opted to
abandon their own projects of iceweasel etc but in terms of security
these pkgs are nightmares. Before someone jumps on me and
criticizes back please explain why an email program will need to
use cookies, among other things it does.
Free and open? If you say so.
One birdy flew over the cookoo.
So if you trust google so much with your personal communication
and whereabouts, why use linux? I was looking at distrowatch the
otherday and there is a port of android for intel/amd machines.
Why not run android in your main computer and download the google
app? I bet that works!

Re: interesting: Linux on Android

[Fungi4All]

> From: d...@randomstring.org
> Not yet a Debian on Android, but:
> https://ollieparanoid.github.io/post/50-days-of-postmarketOS/
> summarizes the first 50 days of building Linux directly for
> several smartphones, with the intention of eventually getting
> them fully functional. Their work could lead to a Debian
> flavor/spin/whatever it"s called now.
> Personally, I would be pretty happy to run Debian on a phone
> instead of the giant pile of Java sitting on an old kernel that
> currently constitutes Android.
> -dsr-

20 days of me trying to do something to an unrooted tablet and
the verdict is that you can not make a computer system out of
cat dish (used to be frisbie). For a rooted system you pay big
bucks, might as well get one of those gadgets with free open
architecture. At least you will know what your hardware will
be transmitting to your "enemies".
On an unrooted device with secret hw-code all you can do is
run something within an android compartment/sandbox.
More than half the machine's resources are already occupied
running the sandbox area (like gnuroot or termux). Start with
a cheap low resource machine and by the time you get gnuroot
ready to direct a Gui to a GFXserver program, either the one or
the other crashes with lack of resources.  Then you open
your windows if you are lucky and 90% of the stuff will not run
in this pseudo linux/debian environment.
Systemd is having a fit as it sweeps most of the left over resources
before you even run anything.
It is amazing how something SO STUPID can be marketed to
become as esential as underware. My 6510i still sounds crystal
clear, and does all a phone is meant to do.

Re: How to gain control over the system?

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: July 13, 2017 11:13 AM
> From: to...@tuxteam.de
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:08:27PM +0200, Kaj Persson wrote:
> [...]
>> As always only root can mount a file system. In the case vfat, which
>> does not have an access system by its own, the owner of the mounted
>> system will be root.
> As a hint (I"m not a purist, mind you): I always mount vfat (well,
> at least when I plan to access them as regular user):
> sudo mount -ouid=tomas,gid=tomas /dev/sdb1 /mnt
> This makes my life easier (yes, you can put the user name in there,
> and separating uid=foo,gid=bar with a comma (no space!) should
> work for you.
> As to your original problem... sorry.
> Cheers

Minor note and question:
If he or anyone else is using other than MSwin more than one linux/unix
system with a common /home partition and wants access to the
same /home/user if "user" corresponds to 1001 in Debian and 1003 in
LinuxX then the name user will not allow access to the other system as
on is user 1001 and the other 1003, two different users with the same
label. The other way around seems to work with my experience, if
1002 is Deb on one system and 1002 is Ian on another then it shows
as the same user. The true owner is described by the id not the label,
I think!

Re: How to use Garmin Connect with Debian 7?

[Fungi4All]

> From: solit...@mail.com
> On Wednesday, 12 July 2017 11:07:39 CEST Joerg Desch wrote:
>> I"m using a Garmin Edge 520 for my bycicle and a (new) Forerunner for
>> running. How can I access Garmin Connect without installing the Windows
>> tools?
>>
>> The Garmin Edge 520 is already registered to my Garmin Connect account.
>> I"ve used an old Windows 7 notebook with isn"t functional anymore. Now
>> I"ve tried to sync the Edge 520
> I have a Garmin Edge 520, and I use the Garmin Connect app on my smartphone to
> sync it, not the Windows tool. I just needed the Windows tool during initial
> configuration, but once it"s registered you no longer need it (except for some
> rare events when you need it to solve weird sync issues).
> I don"t know whether it"s possible to perform the initial configuration steps
> without the official Garmin tool, I have a Windows 10 installation on a 
> libvirt
> virtual machine, that I use just for Garmin and iTunes.

I think you need to read up to the NMEA183 protocol, which for a while it
was the standard of i/o data ever since the first gps had wired connections on 
it.
This is pre-USB era, we use to splice 9pin serial ports on our own before
Garmin started selling wired plugs for 25x the cost. Worth it?
Now it is even easier, here is what I found with a quick search 
https://www.gpsbabel.org/htmldoc-1.4.4/fmt_garmin.html
But this pdf takes all the mystery out of the input/output of such devices.
Nearly 20-25 years have passed and not much has changed
https://www.garmin.com/support/pdf/NMEA_0183.pdf
To communicate with a Garmin GPS serially, use the name of that serial port 
such as COM1 or /dev/cu.serial.
To communicate via USB use usb: as the filename on all OSes. Thus, to read the 
waypoints from a Garmin USB receiver and write them to a GPX file:
gpsbabel -i garmin -f usb: -o gpx -F blah.gpx
If you have multiple units attached via USB, you may provide a unit number, 
with zero being the implied default. So if you have three USB models on your 
system, they can be addressed as usb:0, usb:1, and usb:2. To get a list of 
recognized devices, specify a negative number such as:
gpsbabel -i garmin -f usb:-1
When reporting problems with the Garmin format, be sure to include the full 
unit model, firmware version, and be prepared to offer debugging dumps by 
adding -D9 to the command line, like:
gpsbabel -D9 -i garmin -f usb: -o gpx -F blah.gpx
Custom icons are supported on units that support that. Neither GPSBabel nor 
your firmware know what is associated with any given slot number. They don't 
know that the picture you placed in the first slot is a happy face, they only 
know they're in the lowest numbered slot. GPSBabel names the them consistently 
with Mapsource, so they are named 'Custom 0' through 'Custom 511'.
For models where the connection on the GPS is a serial interface, be sure the 
GPS is set for "Garmin mode" in setup and that nothing else (PDA hotsync 
programs, gpsd, getty, pppd, etc.) is using the serial port.
For models connected via USB, we recommend use of the usb: filename. For this 
to work on Windows, you must install the Garmin driver. For Linux, this will 
fail if you have the garmin_gps kernel module loaded. See the Operating System 
Notes for details.

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

Attached is a copy of the source on a page of the link in one of the last
spammers. It has a yes/no response for sharing pictures with the same
output of java variable. One of the tweeter accounts is @XhmikosR
which is Greek for ChemistR.
But, this site may be just a library for hacker code that is incorporated
elsewhere. Tweet accounts maybe just as fake or unrelated..
One of the sources of the code is of h++ps://bootstrapcdn . com that
through startpage proxy it appears to be as follows:
BootstrapCDN
Font Awesome
Bootswatch
Bootlint
Bootstrap 4 Alpha
Legacy
Showcase
Integrations
Resources
GitHub project
WordPress Plugin
Bootstrap
Bootstrap Expo
Font Awesome
Bootswatch
Bootlint
Glyphicons
BootstrapCDN
The recommended CDN for Bootstrap, Font Awesome and Bootswatch.
Follow @jdorfman
Follow @mervinej
Tweet
Quick Start
Complete CSS
Click to copy
HTML
Click to copy
Pug
Click to copy
Haml
Click to copy
Complete JavaScript
Click to copy
HTML
Click to copy
Pug
Click to copy
Haml
Click to copy
Why BootstrapCDN believes in Subresource Integrity (SRI)
Maintained by @jdorfman , @mervinej and @XhmikosR
Homies be ScaleScale, Bootstrap, Sticker Mule, nixCraft & Fort Awesome
Mad Love - Curated tweets by getBootstrapCDN






The most popular dating site of this month

https://maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/3.3.7/css/bootstrap.min.css;>


a,b,blockquote,body,dd,div,dl,dt,em,fieldset,font,form,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,html,i,iframe,img,legend,li,ol,p,pre,q,s,samp,small,span,strike,strong,u,ul{margin:0;padding:0;border:0;outline:0}body{background-color:#000;font-family:"helvetica
 
neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium!important;overflow:hidden}.smaller{font-size:smaller!important}h1{font-size:22px!important;line-height:1.25!important;text-align:center;background:#fff}.geo,.handle,a{color:#3498db}.modal-backdrop{background:0
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p{font-size:14px!important}.radar h1{line-height:3.5em!important}.quiz-modal 
.modal-header{background:#bdc3c7!important;text-align:center;color:#636d6e}.btns
 
li{border-radius:35px;width:30px;font-size:1.25em;margin:.25em;display:inline-block;padding:.1em;color:#eee;background:#7f8c8d;opacity:.75}.btns
 
li.active{background:#fff;color:#000;opacity:1}}#bannerContainer{position:fixed;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;}#bannerContainer>div{position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;background-position:
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cover;background-size: cover;}.quiz-modal{position: absolute; width: 100%; 
height: 100vh; left: 0; top: 0;}.modal-dialog{margin:0px 
auto;position:absolute;left:50%;bottom:25% 
!important;-webkit-transform:translateX(-50%) 
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.unsub > a {
font-family: Helvetica, 

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

From: pfeif...@cs.nmsu.edu
>> It may come as a shock to you but most non-technical email users use
>> HTML email.
>
>His point wasn"t that they"re all HTML, it"s that they have nearly
>identical content and identically formatted HTML.
And my point was that let's say they all came from wanadoo.fr for which
the format is known and public, can you conclude they came from there?
But you seem to also pretend the term "most non-technical" email users
is not even there. So, to break it in change, this list is for non-technical
users who attempt to take a dive and install debian and experiencing
problems. It is not, by definition, a club of technical-users to be arrogant
against all new-comers. Like a group of ol'boyz drinking beer in the
river shooting snakes harassing all by-passers.
I think this is the real issue and not a half-assed attempt to figure out
spam and turning the conversation into a netiquette issue.
To lighten up the spirits here, this is the joke of the day:
Systemd allowing a service owned by 0day gaining root access.
Blame the debian-user but defend debian and systemd at all costs.
Am I on the good'ol'boyz'club blacklist or not yet?

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

From: deb...@lionunicorn.co.uk
>On Tue 11 Jul 2017 at 11:12:35 (-0400), Fungi4All wrote:
>> > From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
> >>>On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:10:06PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> >>>> It may come as a shock to you but most non-technical email users use
> >>>> HTML email.
> >>>
> >>> As long as they don"t do it *here* (or any other unix-oriented mailing
> >>> list), no problem.
> >
> >You are shifting topics and making up rules of your own to impose on
> >others. That"s very un-unix like. Why don"t you do this in your apple
> >mailing lists?
>
>Here, amongst the rules, are:
>
>Wrap your lines at 80 characters or less for ordinary
>discussion. Lines longer than 80 characters are acceptable for
>computer-generated output (e.g., ls -l).
>
>Never send your messages in HTML; use plain text instead.
I do not have the capacity to send anything different than I do
and I refuse to change my email to accommodate your peculiarities.
Especially on a public list that there seems to be no moderation
I will neither try to reveal my IP or use any of the big-brother
collaborators.
The issue here is that for a while here we are plastered by
hacking bot messages, which is the topic, and some are diverting
the issue to html senders. Like those spamers can not send
80 character ascii.
So, what about the rules? Hijacking the topic is just as much
of a problem here than anything else.

anyone here from forums.debian.net

[Fungi4All]

For months now I have tried registering to use this forum and all IPs from my 
ISP are blocked by these secondary services. This is a dynamic IP and
due to the size of the isp chances of ever getting the same IP twice in a 
lifetime is nearly 0.
Filling a complain with both of them did not even produce a response. This ISP 
is either the #1 or #2 in the country, the old national phone company now a 
member
of one of the largest communication multinationals in the EEC. The forum admins 
do not even list a contact address to communicate with them.
For a forum of this specific distribution I find the practice at least 
ridiculous. No other linux distribution respects and advances anonymity more
than debian, this is why I find the practice so contradictory.
Your IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx has been blocked because it is blacklisted. For details 
please see http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?.submit=Lookup=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Your IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx has been blocked because it is blacklisted. For details 
please see 
http://www.barracudacentral.org/lookups/ip-reputation?ip_address=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

> From: wool...@eeg.ccf.org
>>On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:10:06PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> It may come as a shock to you but most non-technical email users use
>>> HTML email.
>>
>> As long as they don"t do it *here* (or any other unix-oriented mailing
>> list), no problem.

You are shifting topics and making up rules of your own to impose on
others. That's very un-unix like. Why don't you do this in your apple
mailing lists?

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

If the vast majority of junk comes from wanadoo.fr I am tempted to
think that it is a targeted effort to accumulate so many spam reports
for such email addresses that eventually the whole domain is considered
a spamers domain. Huge ISPs have been listed as spam sources this
way. To use an html template that matches the webmail's provider
is the least of problems bot admins face in their escapades.

Re: is there package that convert qr code to url?

[Fungi4All]

> From: cele...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Perhaps zbar-tools (no experience with it)?
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 04:51:19 +0800
> Long Wind  wrote:
>> thanks!
>>
> Celejar

I went looking for a package named Calejar

Re: debian wiki

[Fungi4All]

> From: to...@tuxteam.de
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 08:57:35AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>> On Mon 10 Jul 2017 at 13:32:00 (+), Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>> > On Dom, 09 Jul 2017, tomas wrote:
>> > >So I think the top menu only reacts to the preferred language set in
>> > >the browser. The wiki content itself obeys both the URL (i.e. the
>> > >intercalated /fr/ element) and to the browser preference.
>> > >
>> > >Does this correspond with your findings?
>> >
>> > That"s also what happens here.
>>
>> … which is as I would expect it.
>>
>> However, I"m only _guessing_ that these pages are active in some way,
> You mean... server-side active, I guess.
> [...]
>> I haven"t seen an actual problem expressed by anyone about what is
>> displayed. Is there one, other than a casual observation?
> Not a real problem. Just a behaviour that confused the original
> poster (I think it was Fungi4All): if your browser lang is "X"
> and you click on the page"s link for lang "Y" and you get a top
> menu in "Xish" and a content in "Yish". The link provided by (was
> it Brian?) in this thread seems to indicate that this confusion
> happens more than once.
> For people who don"t know the browser has a language preferences
> setting (and perhaps have no idea about all that HTTP content
> negotiation stuff), that might be a bit... surprising, leading
> some to guess that there is an IP-based shenanigan behind the
> scenes.
> The confused are hardly to be blamed, given the tendency of
> late to keep users as stupid as possible :-/
> Regards
> - -- tomás

I, the OP, have no abilities in German of French, nor do I have these
languages in my browser. I noticed that the wiki, while it was displaying
the default Englsh text, the menus were on a 4th language. Upon the
suggestion to disable scripts, I used my trusty secure browser with a French IP
and tried. When I selected French just for testing, the menus remained
English. When I selected German it was all German, to me. The more
languages you select the funkier and more inconsistent the results were.
In some languages you may click a link and revert back to English, possibly
because of the page being in another english default server.
No matter what is at fault the wiki server results are inconsistent.

Re: pop-up windows all the time in Firefox, Stretch

[Fungi4All]

> From: mattcr...@mattcrews.com
> To: Fungi4All <fungil...@protonmail.com>
> debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Back up your ~/.mozilla folder, delete it and reopen Firefox. This will 
> create a fresh Firefox profile. Make sure that Firefox's built in pop up 
> blocker is enabled. Then navigate to websites that are generating pop-ups 
> that normally don't.
> If the pop-ups persist, then either your computer has been hijacked (wiping 
> your HD and re-installing the OS might fix) , your modem/router has been 
> hijacked (check your modem/router for firmware updates), or shenanigans are 
> occuring through your ISP (which you probably can't do anything about).
>
>>> Thanks for the suggestion for add blockers. What I guess I am saying is;
>>> even in websites that I know would never include pop-up ads, when
>>> clicking on something, I am getting a pop-up with some add. It feels
>>> like a virus, like something that is affecting Firefox (I havent tested
>>> other browsers) at the system level, or at least at the program level.
>>> It feels like some bad software is affecting Firefox. For example, when
>>> clicking on a dropdown box, a new window is opened with some ad, I know
>>> this is not being done by the website I am navigating.
>>> thanks a lot,
>>
>> Check your addons in firefox and your homepage. This sounds like a hijacking
>> activity. But there is a difference between pop-up and ad-blocking. 
>> Ad-blocking
>> works whether they pop or are within the page. Pop-ups may not necessarily
>> be ads. You can also add the No-Script addon to only allow what you want
>> scripts on. But this is all browser related, not system.

You are top-posting, which you will have to learn to respect the choice not to,
and you are responding to me personally as I am having the problem. I don't
even use Mozilla anymore.
Any reference on hijacking trojans on Debian would be most interesting.

Re: pop-up windows all the time in Firefox, Stretch

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: July 10, 2017 12:27 PM
> From: anilduggir...@fastmail.fm
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017, at 02:43 AM, Dejan Jocic wrote:
>> On 09-07-17, Anil Duggirala wrote:
>> > hello,
>> > Ever since I moved to Stretch I have had pop-up windows popping up all
>> > the time (clicking on various items on various types of pages). I am
>> > posting here, since this is only happening in my Debian installation.
>> > Was anything changed in the default configuration of Firefox. It feels
>> > like Windows with all of these pop-ups, this is the first time I
>> > experience anything like this in a linux installation.
>> > thanks,
>> >
>>
>> In firefox you have option to block pop-up windows. Go to preferences,
>> it is under content. And install some add blocker. For me, best is :
>>
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/
>>
>> You can also install script blocker, like this one:
>>
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/?src=ss
>>
>> With all that on, you will be pretty safe against pop-ups.
>>
> Thanks for the suggestion for add blockers. What I guess I am saying is;
> even in websites that I know would never include pop-up ads, when
> clicking on something, I am getting a pop-up with some add. It feels
> like a virus, like something that is affecting Firefox (I havent tested
> other browsers) at the system level, or at least at the program level.
> It feels like some bad software is affecting Firefox. For example, when
> clicking on a dropdown box, a new window is opened with some ad, I know
> this is not being done by the website I am navigating.
> thanks a lot,

Check your addons in firefox and your homepage. This sounds like a hijacking
activity. But there is a difference between pop-up and ad-blocking. Ad-blocking
works whether they pop or are within the page. Pop-ups may not necessarily
be ads. You can also add the No-Script addon to only allow what you want
scripts on. But this is all browser related, not system.

Re: How to gain control over the system?

[Fungi4All]

Again, did you copy your /home from a previous system or is it a new
configuration that locked your panels?

> UTC Time: July 9, 2017 12:54 PM
> From: 70147pers...@telia.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Thank you all for thoughts and viewpoints on what can be wrong in my
> installation of Debian 9. I have looked through places I might expect
> can contain some explanation, but so far I have not been able to exclaim
> an "Ah, that"s it!". Here are some of my observations:
> * First source of install: Well, I do know I wrote that used the live
> image, but to be honest, for now I am not sure, I do not remember. I had
> downloaded the live image as well as the install image, and most
> probable choice would be the later. But I do not know. Anyway the
> install process itself went without any problems.
> * At the install I made it fully new from the bottom. The only directory
> I kept unchanged was my home directory. This is situated on an own
> partition. All the others were reformatted: /, /boot, /usr, /var and
> /tmp. All these are on individual partitions while e.g. /etc is
> contained in the root partition. At earlier installations I have noticed
> that the home directory can contain wrong configuration files, so as a
> test I moved all hidden files i.e. files starting with a dot to a new
> created directory "hidden". This was however after the install. So at a
> subsequent cold start the system had no configuration files there but
> created new ones with default values. This however had no positive
> impact on my problem.
> * Configuring sudo? No I have not done that explicitly, not more than
> what the install program did itself. I have looked at /etc/sudoers and
> what I think the important lines are:
> # User privilege specification
> root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> %sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> #includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> In /etc/sudoers.d there are no more files than README.
> There is no /etc/sudo.conf file.
> * Regarding access to my user directory: During my search I did in fact
> find some files and directories owned by user root or group root. These
> are changed to be owned by my user id and group id, but this did not
> help. By the way, On this computer I have always had just one user,
> mine, and hence got the user id 1000 and group id 1000. This is the case
> now too.
> uid 1000 is a member of the sudo group.
> * As I wrote I have always used this method of not setting any password
> to the root account, and this is for quite many years now. My Linux path
> has gone via Ubuntu, well to be honest a couple of years after the
> Microsoft era I ran in Suse, but was not fully satisfied. And when
> Ubuntu and Canonical introduced Unity, I left that ship for Linux Mint
> Debian edition (LMDE) until I took the last(?) step into Debian a couple
> of years ago where the entrance point was jessie. The empty root
> password has always worked fine until now. Possibly Ubuntu has patched
> the sudologin but should LMDE? And jessie? I do not think so.
> Hope someone can find something significant in this and give a hint on
> what to do.
> Kaj

Re: debian wiki

[Fungi4All]

> From: to...@tuxteam.de
>> It"s probably based not on your IP, but on headers sent by your browser
>> (Accept-Language or something like that). There should be somewhere in
>> the settings where you can change that. At least on Firefox there is.
> I can confirm that (tested on https://wiki.debian.org). Depending on
> the language preferences set on my browser (en resp. fr), I stay on
> the default, English or get redirected to the French version, /fr/.

It is not consistent though, with scripts-off if you pick french from the main
page the content will become french but the top menus stay EN. If you
pick a link (installation rapide) the headers stay in EN. If you try the same
with DE then all of it is German. This is with a French IP. So it is not the IP
but some language cookie that throws it off? I guess if you use a lesser
browser than mozilla weird things happen, I accept that the IP speculation
was unsubstantiated.
But the inconsistency remains.

> So I don"t see any IP based language choice on wiki.debian.org, just
> one based on HTTP content negotiation (and thus on client choice), as
> it Should Be (TM).

> DISCLAIMER: I only tested without Javascript. I (mostly) browse with
> Javascript disabled.
> @Fungi4All: if you are interested in constructive discussions and not
> just in ranting off, please describe what you are seeing, at least
> with an URL for people to try to reproduce what you are seeing.

I thought I did, wiki.debian.org but here is a specific one 
https://wiki.debian.org/fr/QuickInstall
Is the top menu in English or French. On my instance the content was english 
but the menus were not

Re: shadow spam (was Re: stop your mail)

[Fungi4All]

> From: scdbac...@gmx.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> this conversation has gone viral itself.
> It is technically interesting to see what people think how stupid we
> are. I wonder if there is any other purpose than to make me wonder ?

Politically, the motive may be by some who will need the ground to push
an agenda. First you document a threat, you allow a crisis, then play the
card of the protector. Like an antivirus agency spreading a virus. So I
would be really cautious of any who would volunteer as moderators or
those who would promote a forum, like debian.uk is, where they have
to get copies of birth certificates 3 generations back to allow a member.

> Have a nice day :)
> Thomas

Have a great night
(AK)

Re: Installing Debian on an android device

[Fungi4All]

> From: delop...@gmail.com
> Fungi4All wrote:
>>> The hardware can not track your activities - it is the software
>>
>> I know that, but it can include capabilities for specific sw to take
>> advantage of.
>>
> To what extent it is different from your PC, which also can include those
> capabilities.

Just blind metaphysical faith that within the linux superfamily there would
be enough whistle blowers of the secrets shared with hw engineers that
it would become public knowledge. But, to support your statement, I got
a chill and cold sweat reading some of the publicized specs from Intel/Amd
processors. I mean the advertised capabilities :)

>>> Haha - this is a good one - I am just wondering when americans will raise
>>> up - you need a change over there - big change
>>
>> Don"t laugh so hard, your reality is not that far off no matter where you
>> are.
>>
> No but at least I am aware of it :)

10-4, the vast majority have chosen the facebook pill, brain numb by choice.
So, why blame poor innocent americans when no-one is better?

>> No, but it is designed specifically for android use. Whether something
>> else will also run or not is irrelevant. Whether whatever else will know
>> to take advantage of its capabilities in full or not is. Whether a door is
>> opened in networking to have external software exploit its hidden
>> capabilities is. All you can do is study the packets in/out.
> This is incorrect. It is not designed for specific OS, rather the OEM works
> close with the OS developer and shares information about the device, so the
> OS developer does not have to guess. IT is also the OS that keeps the doors
> open and not the hardware - you need to shift your view.

Well, I may not be fully capabable of understanding the details, but isn't there
some form of "soft"ware within its subsystem of hardware? What a chip will
respond to a circuit trigger is based on internal code of communication. I think
the key is in providing IDs of stuff, of writing, storing, and responding IDs.
The rest can be compiled externally. If among a crowd I ask for a doctor
and you say I MedLicense#939827164950 am a doctor I get suspicious!

>>>> For scientific field work android seems very poor, while in idiotic
>>>> gadgets and games they are unbelievably wealthy. So even a
>>>> jailed vm of debian being able to run apps on the run maybe just
>>>> what it may be good for. The only reason it ended up in my hands
>>>> is that someone was really fed up with stalled applications after
>>>> a year that the 4core system with 1/2Meg Ram had 0 value.
>>> hehe - android can not execute processes in parallel
>>
>> It is a clone of some unix. It had the capability and lost it. As far as
>> we know. Can we know?
> It is sh*t OS, this is what it is.

After meshing around a bit more with this pseudo debian environment
I am convinced that it is not worth my time and effort to deal with this.
I am taping it on top of my guitar amp to play mp3s as backing/practice
tracks and I think that it is the best it is good for.

> regards

Re: How to gain control over the system?

[Fungi4All]

> From: david...@freevolt.org
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> As they say[1],[2],[3], do not use a live image for installs.
> 1. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00723.html
> 2. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00740.html
> 3. https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/06/msg00755.html

My experience with live images is that they include the installer and
a live image. The gui within the live system most usually runs into
errors, while the installer from the initial grub-like menu works just like the
netinstall system. I suspect the installer without booting the live
system has maximum resources available, while the live system
even as idle requires 15-20% of resources to run the installation
gui.

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: July 9, 2017 9:41 AM
> From: scdbac...@gmx.net
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Hi,
> Andy Smith wrote:
>> I don"t think they care who receives the blowback.
> Just for sports i bet on the intention to annoy us and possibly the
> reflector mailers.
> (I am still undecided whether the reflectors are real.)
> I am subscribed to several lists. Among them only debian-user gets
> this special kind of spam. Do we have a dedicated enemy ?
> Damn. So close and still not enough:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.8 required=4.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,GENDER,
> HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,
> THREADTOPIC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
> version=3.4.0
> ...
> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2017 11:12:43 +0200 (CEST)
> I wonder how many of these got caught with scores above 4.0 already.
> Have a nice day :)
> Thomas

I remember 2 months ago I had received a response from what appeared
as a list member responding to some spam that was sent by me to the list.
The response was something like
>
>
what?
So I fell for it and responded to this and the list telling everyone I had not
sent such email, or it didn't really come from my system. People were
asking me for headers where all I got was a message of the fake response
with minimal headers.
Maybe at the time they were fishing for how the mailist worked. But this
conversation has gone viral itself.

Re: How to gain root control?

[Fungi4All]

> From: pipat...@gmail.com
> To: Debian users mailing list <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>
> On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 12:51 AM, Fungi4All <fungil...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2017-07-08 at 23:57 +0200, Kaj Persson wrote:
>>
>>>> But now I discovered an issue, I cannot manage my desktop. I have
>>>> always at the previous installations, and they are quite many now, been
>>>> advised to, for security reason, leave the root password unset, which 
>>>> causes
>>>> the root account go passive, and for all tasks where I need root
>>>> authority I go via su/sudo.
>>
>> It is a bad idea despite of what security gurus may advise. You may lose 
>> your system
>> and never get it back.
>
> It's an even worse idea to listen to people on the internet who ignore 
> "security gurus" based on rumours. You can easily restore or change the root 
> password if it's lost or unset.

The last few times I remember here people saying they were running a single 
sudo user and no-root they
had change their mind about this choice for the hustle of doing what you say it 
is done "easily".
I don't recall you providing them with a procedure of how to do it, so why 
don't you do it now?
You are not allowed to use the term "it depends" in your explanation :)

Re: Installing Debian on an android device

[Fungi4All]

> From: delop...@gmail.com
> Fungi4All wrote:
>> On a previous question of why I hate such devices I think Joe has
>> answered for me in most counts. I really believe they were designed
>> from scratch to monitor every minute of anyone"s life. Just in case
>> at any point in the future some authority may want to back track the
>> live profile of a certain state or corporate enemy. Which is
>> understandable for industry to be exchanging favors and gifts, as this is
>> the nature of the modern reverse welfare state.
> The hardware can not track your activities - it is the software

I know that, but it can include capabilities for specific sw to take advantage 
of.

>> The latest interpretation of the bill of rights states that: you have the
>> right to free speech as long as we know who is exercising the right and
>> where we may find him/her in case we need to extract information at
>> homeland.s basement, somewhere in nowhereland.
> Haha - this is a good one - I am just wondering when americans will raise
> up - you need a change over there - big change

Don't laugh so hard, your reality is not that far off no matter where you are.

>> There have been leaks by android hardware engineers that there is so
>> many backdoors engineered within these systems that it is virtually
>> impossible to ever make it secure (orbot developers have admitted to
>> this but not given up entirely). The goal of a portable pocket
>> size open architecture open source system seems to be possible but
>> it comes with a cost. Just a display for one of those Berkeley open
>> boards costs as much as a late model android tablet. Getting up to
>> i-phone cost with something that will end up being 4 times as big and
>> heavy is a sport for the affluent.
> Again mixing up hardware with software - the software is android - not the
> hardware

No, but it is designed specifically for android use. Whether something else
will also run or not is irrelevant. Whether whatever else will know to take
advantage of its capabilities in full or not is. Whether a door is opened
in networking to have external software exploit its hidden capabilities is.
All you can do is study the packets in/out.

>> For scientific field work android seems very poor, while in idiotic
>> gadgets and games they are unbelievably wealthy. So even a
>> jailed vm of debian being able to run apps on the run maybe just
>> what it may be good for. The only reason it ended up in my hands
>> is that someone was really fed up with stalled applications after
>> a year that the 4core system with 1/2Meg Ram had 0 value.
> hehe - android can not execute processes in parallel

It is a clone of some unix. It had the capability and lost it. As far as we 
know.
Can we know?

Re: How to gain control over the system?

[Fungi4All]

> From: oflam...@gmail.com
> To: Kaj Persson <70147pers...@telia.com>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Did you remember to reconfigure sudo? What Desktop Environment are you
> using?

He said Mate

> On Sat, 2017-07-08 at 23:57 +0200, Kaj Persson wrote:
>> But now I discovered an issue, I cannot manage my desktop. I have
>> always at the previous installations, and they are quite many now, been
>> advised to, for security reason, leave the root password unset, which causes
>> the root account go passive, and for all tasks where I need root
>> authority I go via su/sudo.

It is a bad idea despite of what security gurus may advise. You may lose your 
system
and never get it back.

>> But I cannot control the panels, I have two of them, one on
>> top
>>

A user should not need sudo rights to edit the conf files in the desktop.
It is all stored in the /home/*user* subdirectory, while as root your home
is /root. Chances are the access rights in your home directory have been
restricted, so you need to give yourself as a user the rights back.
As a su you should not be able to alter the /home/user directories.
What I suspect you've done is copy the /home from an old system
which transfered the rights of that system and from a different user.
Let's say in that system your username was mate99 and so it is in the
new system. But the user id in that system was user 1003 and now
you are user 1001. 1001 will not be able to adjust conf. files for user
1003. If you open the filemanager and your desktop folder is owned
by a user 1003 (or some number) then you need to switch the rights
of all your home/user stuff to be owned by mate99

Re: Advice on Debian installation

[Fungi4All]

> From: jode...@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Do you even bother to read other people posts? He wants to install
> Debian where Ubuntu install is. He wants to replace it.

why worry about ubuntu grub if it gets erased intentionally, it doesn't make
sense.

Re: Advice on Debian installation

[Fungi4All]

From: sebastian.luna.val...@gmail.com

> Great, many thanks for your quick replies!
> Will try that, fingers crossed!

Don't listen to those ubuntu haters, nothing will happen.
Leave it as is. When debian installs its version of grub
on /dev/sda it will be in control and provide you boot entries
for win7, ubuntu, and Debian. If you log back to Ubuntu
and $sudo grub-install /dev/sda
$sudo update-grub it will gain back control and create
the same boot entries for all three but ubuntu will be
first choice. At least this way you will not have to look
at the ugly green debian snail screen when you wake
up in the morning! :)
As long as you are not including an Arch/Manjaro
installation you will be fine with either grub. I have had
up to seven of them (it only takes a few kb of space).
Delete the ubuntu partition and you will be OK!
Tell this to the ausie guy that installed stretch from scratch and
lost all networking! 3-4 days ago. At least this man can download
all the gpg stuff and the deb files that were needed from ubuntu
and pass them to the half broken isolated debian installation.
Just keep your fingers crossed and debian might even work
first time around.

debian wiki

[Fungi4All]

I thought only sites for idiots like gloogloo pick on their own the language of
the menus based on locale/ip even though the language is nowhere used on
this pc. But debian-wiki will pick and not reverse the choice? Even though
I choose english the drop boxes and menus are an another language based
on IP. This makes life hard for traveling users.

Re: Installing Debian on an android device

[Fungi4All]

> UTC Time: July 8, 2017 7:50 AM
> From: j...@jretrading.com
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2017 09:06:51 +0200
> deloptes  wrote:
>> I am following the work of Jolla (SailFish OS) and their community
>> ports, but honestly without (Android) apps  what do you use this
>> device for? I think Ubuntu has also project targeting mobile devices.
> I think that the Holy Grail for many people is a genuinely pocket-sized
> computer with Internet, GPS, etc., running a real, general-purpose
> operating system, not a marketing medium. I have an Acer One netbook,
> which is nearly what I want except for the size. But then, I do like a
> real keyboard, that doesn"t disappear just as a web form is about to
> time out...

On a previous question of why I hate such devices I think Joe has
answered for me in most counts. I really believe they were designed
from scratch to monitor every minute of anyone's life. Just in case
at any point in the future some authority may want to back track the
live profile of a certain state or corporate enemy. Which is understandable
for industry to be exchanging favors and gifts, as this is the nature of
the modern reverse welfare state.

> There may also be the hope that with a proper OS, they will control the
> device instead of just about anyone on the planet who wants to track
> the owner, collect his data or listen in. That"s probably not a
> realistic goal.

There is a small percentage of conscious resistors.

> The manufacturers of tablets and smartphones are almost certainly under
> some pressure to make it as difficult as possible to run an alternative
> OS, in addition to the commercial pressure, of course. It"s quite
> noticeable that the last couple of versions of Windows have tried quite
> hard to discourage people from using non-Microsoft-approved
> applications, and to make it appear that an account with Microsoft is
> essential in order to even use the computer. That"s the direction we"re
> heading in, not the other way.

The latest interpretation of the bill of rights states that: you have the right
to free speech as long as we know who is exercising the right and where
we may find him/her in case we need to extract information at homeland.s
basement, somewhere in nowhereland.

> --
> Joe

There have been leaks by android hardware engineers that there is so
many backdoors engineered within these systems that it is virtually
impossible to ever make it secure (orbot developers have admitted to
this but not given up entirely). The goal of a portable pocket
size open architecture open source system seems to be possible but
it comes with a cost. Just a display for one of those Berkeley open
boards costs as much as a late model android tablet. Getting up to
i-phone cost with something that will end up being 4 times as big and
heavy is a sport for the affluent.
For scientific field work android seems very poor, while in idiotic
gadgets and games they are unbelievably wealthy. So even a
jailed vm of debian being able to run apps on the run maybe just
what it may be good for. The only reason it ended up in my hands
is that someone was really fed up with stalled applications after
a year that the 4core system with 1/2Meg Ram had 0 value.
Great battery still. This is a lollypop and I also have a previous
model with a dead sealed wired battery and 1M ram. So I could
possibly end up with a good one. Soldering explosives is my
second hobby to hacking this device which I am better at :)
Back to gnuroot debian, I managed to get lxde to run and upgraded
to buster, not broken yet. This was done with xserver xsdl which is
a ton more realistic than xsdl's app called debian with xfce.
If you play around with mouse/touch conf it ends up acting almost
as a real touch screen. This all depends to your tolerance to frisbie
throwing gadgets.
Can you hack/pen test your device from inwards attacking its ip?
Anyway, it is a learning experience.

Re: stop your mail

[Fungi4All]

> From: scdbac...@gmx.net
> Hi,
> (Can real people be that stupid ? Is this the proof for
> brain damage caused by mobile phones ?)

Look at how many people are NOT protesting the G20, or
the earth's summit of earth destroyers. This is how bad this
epidemic of IQ drainage has gotten. It is all sucked through
FB and chasing pokemen.

> Maybe our list"s spam filter could give such phrases a spam rating
> sufficent to drop them if the sender is not subscribed ?

How about an image file send with every subscription with a 18 digit
random code you would have to type manually to activate? Then use
something like an encryption key to post to the list, so fake headers
get blocked.

> Have a nice day :)

What is even worse than smart-phoniasis is protesting in Hamburg
with your digital identifying device in your pocket and wearing a hood.
That scores lower in IQ than Trump.
Have a great night

Re: Relative stability of Testing vs Unstable

[Fungi4All]

> From: songb...@anthive.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> John Hasler wrote:
>> songbird writes:
>>> i"ve been running testing with bits from unstable and/or experimental
>>> for quite some time now.
>>
>> Experimental is a completely different kettle of fish.
> of course. :) it is not like i"m using a lot of
> things from there. more like one or two items.
>> Unstable
>> contains packages that the developer hopes and expects will migrate to
>> Testing and end up in Stable without incident, and he"s usually right.
>> Experimental, on the other hand, contains packages that the developer
>> wants people to experiment with. It is not a mistake or policy
>> violation to upload a package known to contain a grave bug to
>> Experimental.
> i usually check if there is a newer version there
> if i"m experiencing a bug in a version that is in
> testing or unstable to see if the newer version solves
> the bug. most recently it was libreoffice, but the
> newer version didn"t make any difference so i purged
> it and reinstalled the testing version again (and then
> worked around the issue).

between sid and experimental it is only a pound sign move from one
source line to the next. An update will satisfy your curiosity without
an upgrade. Last I checked there were only 2-3 kernels that were
under experimentation, nothing else different from my sid installation.
Do I care to mess around with linux-rc ? Not really, so I just went
back. Possibly after stretch stability there may be a ton of stuff.
By the way, 4.12 was announced as stable and there is no 4.13
yet. https://www.kernel.org/

> songbird