Re: hotmail access
On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:08:22PM -0400, Noah Meyerhans wrote: On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:09:58PM +, joe golden wrote: What the heck do i need to get kde to get in to hotmail??? You need a web browser. apt-get install konqueror You also need crypto support, which will not be installed by default. These two packages should do it: kdebase-crypto - KDE core applications (Crypto modules) kdelibs3-crypto - KDE core libraries (Crypto Modules) -- sparky
Re: zlib1g vs zlib1g-dev (potato)
will trillich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 08:24:09PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 03:26:40PM -0500, will trillich wrote: zlib1g-dev: Depends: zlib1g (= 1:1.1.3-5) but 1:1.1.3-9 is to be installed Well, that's fairly self-explanatory. not on the level i'm looking at... zlib1g-dev needs either zlib1g 1.1.3 or 1.1.4 or 1.1.5, whereas what's installed is 1.1.3 thru 1.1.9 ... so maybe zlib1g is 1.1.6 thru 1.1.9 in which case it'd be outside the range needed by the APPARENTLY OUTDATED 1.1.3-1.1.5 -dev module. Actually, that means zlib1g-dev needs zlib1g, epoch 1, version 1.1.3, Debian release 5 to install. However, the only available zlib1g is epoch 1, versino 1.1.3, Debian release 9. Somehow you got a newer version of zlib1g than is in potato. You should manually retrieve the potato version of zlib1g and use dpkg --force-downgrade to correct it. -- sparky
Re: bug in gdb! it segfaults!
Peter Jay Salzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hello all, i'm debugging a c++ program, and found something very distressing: % gdb wellspring core GNU gdb 19990928 (warranty snipped) This GDB was configured as i686-pc-linux-gnu... Core was generated by `./wellspring'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-2.so.3...done. Reading symbols from /lib/libm.so.6...done. Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.6...done. Reading symbols from /lib/ld-linux.so.2...done. #0 0x804ced8 in GetPotential ([EMAIL PROTECTED], V=0x8053028, wf=0x805b588) at functions.cc:51 51 V[j] = -4.0L*PI*G*pow(run.m*run.dr, 2.0L)*(run.sum1[j] + run.sum2[j]); (gdb) p run.m*run.dr $1 = 0.013599479808447117947299662577692603 (gdb) p pow(run.m*run.dr, 2) Segmentation fault (core dumped) now whether gdb should let me print pow(run.m*run.dr, 2) or not, that's gdb segfaulting. a debugger should _NOT_ segfault, under any circumstances. i feel gdb is the most important program besides the linux kernel and the C/C++ compilers. this should be fixed. what should i do? contact FSF or debian? bug-gdb@gnu.org
Re: anyone using xosview?
kmself@ix.netcom.com writes: I was going to suggest 'ld $( which xosview )' as well, but I find that ld doesn't appear to work as advertised on my system: $ ld $( which xosview ) ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 0804a760 ...I'm not super familiar with the linker's functionality anyway. Someone got the kudgel of enlightement handy? Unless xosview is being packaged as an object file, you don't want to run ld on it. I think you want ldd, which reports what runtime libraries are needed by binaries. E.g.: timothy:~$ ldd /usr/bin/emacs libXaw.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXaw.so.6 (0x40014000) libXmu.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6 (0x4004c000) libXt.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x4005e000) libSM.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x400a7000) libICE.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x400b) libXext.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x400c6000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x400d2000) libncurses.so.5 = /lib/libncurses.so.5 (0x40179000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401b7000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x401d4000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4000)
Re: Who/what is GR (was: Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...)
Daniel Barclay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who or what is GR? GR stands for General Resolution, ie. the process Debian goes through before making a vote on something.
Re: can't delete /foo
Aaron Solochek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I created a directory, /foo, which was its own partition. I first wanted to change the group of /foo to bar, but it wouldn't let me do that, even as root. I got the error message operation not premitted: /foo Then I thought this is screwed up, so I tried to delete /foo, but rm -r /foo just says operation not premitted, and it doesn't go away. rm -rf /foo doesn't echo any errors, but it also doesn't delete /foo. Any clue what could be causing this? /foo has a mounted filesystem on it, so it is therefore in use. You aren't allowed (nomrally) to delete files/directories that are in use. If you want to delte the mount point, first umount the drive.
Re: color syntax highlighting in emacs without X?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M-x font-lock-mode ? On Mon, 15 May 2000, Britton wrote: Is there some way to do this? It seems it should be possible but I havn't been able to find any reference to it in the emacs docs. list-colors-display just produces an empty, colorless list. Any info appreciated. GNU Emacs doesn't (currently) support colors under ncurses, only under X. XEmacs, however, supports colors in both modes.
Re: libNoVersion.so missing?
Richard Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am trying to run a piece of software in a debian potato setup and get the following error message almost immediately (after which the application stops): error in loading shared libraries: libNoVersion.so.1: cannot open shared object file or directory I was able to get rid of the problem (and even run my program!) by copying this library from a Redhat 6.1 distro !:) Has anyone else had this kind of problem? The library in Redhat is distributed with glibc--should it be in debian also? Should I send a bug report to the maintainer of glibc (ie the maintainer of libc6)? It could be a bug in the program that it depends on libNoVersion.so. What program were you trying to run, how did you install it (from source, a package), and who compiled it (where)?
Re: C and system calls
Bart Friederichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are there any system calls to move or copy files? I know I can do it with system() but i don't like that solution. For move, user rename(2). For copying, you need to do it by hand (e.g. open the from file for reading, the to file for writing, then read(2) the from file and write(2) the to file until you reach EOF). -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://jakob.kaivo.net/
Re: Quake2 libs
Brian Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greetings, First, thanks to the good folks that helped me get my Debian green card. I'm in the process of moving a quake2 server over from a Red Hat machine to a Debian machine for the better of all humanity. I realize that there are probably packages for this, but I don't need to run a client on the Debian machine, just the server and it's needed cfgs/libs/binaries, and I'd rather do it this way. I'm creating an ISO to make this easier, but first I have moved everything over from Red Hat to Debian, and placed it in /usr/games/quake2. Everything is ready to go, except for the libs. % ldd quake2 libdl.so.1 = /lib/libdl.so.1 (0x4000a000) libm.so.5 = not found libc.so.5 = not found libc.so.5 = not found I'm running Potato, and I want to make sure that I don't hose something because I'm still wet behind the ears. ;-) I'm guessing the second two that were not found are libc5? OK to `apt-get install libc5' on Potato? Yep. What is the libm.so.5? `apt-get install libm5' (If its even a package, I haven't checked)? libm is part of libc. Getting libc5 should get libm.so.5 as well. -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://jakob.kaivo.net/
Re: What the 8 in 10.0.0.0/8 means and how to compute this number for my network?
Shaul Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I guess that the 8 in 10.0.0.0/8 is somehow connected to the subnet mask. What is the exact relation? How would I compute the appropriate number for my network? Pointers which explain it and/or full explanation will be appreciated. The number after the slash represents how many bits to use for the subnet mask. In this case, /8 means to use the first 8 bits for the netmask, leaving 24 for the node, translating to dotted decimal of 255.0.0.0 ( ). Similarly, a /24 would represent 255.255.255.0, or a /28 would be 255.255.255.240. -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://jakob.kaivo.net/
Re: [*] about gcc
Junichi Uekawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:55:08 -0600, Brad [EMAIL PROTECTED] was crying out
from somewhere
about: Re: [*] about gcc
lists On Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 04:38:32AM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
lists you need to do
lists
lists gcc -lm
lists
lists to link the maths library.
lists
lists Don't ask me why.
lists
lists Because the actual code for the sqrt function is in the math library,
lists and the math library isn't linked in by default.
One thing I would really like to know is, why isn't it linked in by default?
Well, it would make people realize that these functions actually reside in
the libraries, and tells people of the use of -lm from the early stages.
But, why isn't it, really, not linked in as default?
Because most programs don't need math functions. On my Debian system,
here are the programs i can find with a simple script[1] that link
libm:
in /bin:
ae
in /sbin:
cfdisk
in /usr/bin (for reasons I won't go into, this includes
/usr/X11R6/bin) (note also that at least GTK+ links libm, and anything
here that links gtk may only report libm because of transient
dependencies - unfortunately, ldd doesn't have an option I know of to
hide transient dependecies) (finally note that several program names
are links to one program, such as emacs, emacs20, and emacs-20.5):
XF86_FBDev XF86_SVGA a2p a2p-5.005 addftinfo another_clock_applet ant
apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-get asclock_applet attraction
aweset awk background-properties-capplet battery_applet
bell-properties-capplet bitmap blaster blitspin bouboule braid bsod
bubbles bumps ccurve cdplayer_applet charpick_applet clockmail_applet
compass coral cpumemusage_applet critical crystal cynosure decayscreen
deco deluxe demon deskguide_applet dialer_applet discrete
diskusage_applet distort dns-helper drift drivemount_applet editor
eeyes emacs emacs-20.5 emacs20 epicycle eqn esd esdcat esdctl esdfilt
esdloop esdmon esdplay esdrec esdsample factor fadeplot fifteen_applet
find-scanner flag flame flow forest galaxy gconfigger gdb gdm
gdmchooser gdmlogin gen_util_applet geqn gimp gmenu
gnome-dump-metadata gnome-edit gnome-edit-properties-capplet
gnome-gen-mimedb gnome-login-check gnome-moz-remote gnome-name-service
gnome-session gnome-smproxy gnome-terminal gnome_segv gnomecc
gnomepager_applet goad-browser goop gpic grav greynetic grodvi groff
grohtml grolj4 grops grotty gs gtbl gv gxditview halo helix hopalong
hpftodit hypercube ifs imsmap indxbib interference jbc_applet jigsaw
julia kaleidescope keyboard-properties kumppa laser life_applet
lightning lisa lissie lkbib lmorph loadshlib lookbib loop lynx mawk
maze mime-type-capplet mini_commander_applet mixer_applet mkfontdir
modemlights_applet moire moire2 mountain mouse-properties-capplet
multiload_applet munch mysql mysqladmin mysqldump mysqlimport
mysqlshow nawk new-object noseguy oclock panel pdfimages pdfinfo
pdftopbm pdftops pdftotext pedal penetrate penrose perl perl-5.005
perl5.005 perl5.00503 petri pfbtops phosphor pic pyro qix rd-bomb
refer ripples rocks rorschach rotor save-session sawmill scanimage
screensaver-properties-capplet seq session-properties
session-properties-capplet sfxload sfxtest shadebobs sierpinski
slidescreen slip soelim sonar sound-properties sox sphere spiral
spotlight squiral starfish strange swirl t3d tasklist_applet tasksel
tbl tfmtodit theme-selector-capplet triangle troff truchet
ui-properties update-menus url-properties vines wander
webcontrol_applet whiptail wine wineclipsrv wineserver
wm-properties-capplet x-window-manager x11perf xcam xdpyinfo xflame
xieperf xjack xlyap xmag xmatrix xpdf xroger xsane xscanimage
xscreensaver-demo xsublim xworm
Lastly, from /usr/sbin:
install-menu saned
This is 1 of 61 from /bin, 1 of 77 from /sbin, 244 of 698 from
/usr/{X11R6/,}bin, and 2 of 94 from /usr/sbin. All said, this is 248
of 930 (on my system), or about 27%. Most programs don't need libm, so
there is no compelling reason to link it by default.
[1]
#!/bin/sh
for i in *
do
if (ldd $i 2/dev/null | grep libm /dev/null)
then
echo $i
fi
done
--
Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://jakob.kaivo.net/
Re: how did Microsoft get in here?
dkphoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several times during my numerous attemtps at getting the installation of Linux correct (it looks like this, the 8th time, may be the charm), I have seen this line pop up on the screen: ISO9660Extensions: Microsoft Joliet Level 3 What is MicroSloth doing in my supposedly nice clean Linux box??? grin The CD you are using was mastered using Joliet extenstions to the ISO 9660 standard. Joliet is a filesystem developed at Microsoft to allow for long file names on a CD under Windows. Of course, the GNU world had Rock Ridge long before that, but the Linux kernel understands both, and to make it easier to get files from a CD in a Windows machine (say, when your GNU/Linux box doesn't have a CD-ROM drive), Joliet is in more wide spread use nowadays. Oh, and this one concerns me too: Unable to load NLS charset iso 8859-1(nls_iso8859_1) Can anyone tell me what that is all about and whether or not I should be concerned? Well, ISO 8859-1 (AKA Latin-1) is the normal character set, at least for Americans. It usually isn't a problem when you get a warning like this, as often if 8859-1 fails, the default encoding will be used, which usually happens to be a lot like 8859-1. Of course, someone will correct me if I am wrong here (being an American with little knowledge of such things, I am not well versed in the ways of i18n and l10n). -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://jakob.kaivo.net/
Re: Free version of maildir2mbox?
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Brian May wrote: Hello, Is there any DFSG free versions of maildir2mbox, included with qmail? This program converts $HOME/Maildir/ into $HOME/Mailbox, to allow use of Maildir, even if individual programs (eg pine, nmh) do not support Maildir format. (...or please correct me if pine and/or nmh do support Maildir!) I don't know of any currently, but I am working (with a group of others) on a library (libmailbox) for GNU mailutils that will support multiple mailbox formats, including mbox and Maildir. When ready, such a change should be almost trivial to do. Keep an eye out for it (Freshmeat is a good place to watch). -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: emacs or xemacs ?
On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Juli-Manel Merino Vidal wrote: Hi all, where can I found a document describing the differences between emacs and xemacs ? Thanks. Check the XEmacs web page: http://www.xemacs.org/ You might also look at the Emacs web pages: Official: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs.html Unofficial: http://www.emacs.org/ -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: PAM and POP3 Server
On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Marcus Felipe Pereira wrote: Do Debian (potato) distributes any POP3 server package with PAM support? Yes, GNU pop3d (package gnu-pop3d), formerly known as IDS POP. Not a bad POP server, either, if I do say so myself. ;) -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: OFFTOPIC: need whois on a gov domain
whois domain[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 25 Jul 1999, Pollywog wrote: I got spam from a host using a .gov TLD and I forgot how to do a whois on those. Anyone know? thanks -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: A dumb, somewhat off-topic question...
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Alisdair McDiarmid wrote: Mark Wright writes: Did someone register FreeBSD? If you check out FreeBSD.org, they say FreeBSD is an advanced BSD UNIX operating system. They don't need anyone's permission to call FreeBSD UNIX. They aren't selling it. I don't think that's anything to do with it. BSD UNIX *is* a UNIX operating system (Berkeley Standard Derivation or somthing), so it is within its rights to call itself UNIX. Not really. It /is/ BSD, which is directly derived from ATT UNIX. However, UNIX is a trademark which an operating system must be branded with. It involves testing with The Open Group and paying a lot of money to them for the right to use the name. I tend to refer to *BSD, as well as commercial Unices, as GNU-like operating systems, while GNU/Linux and (of course) GNU/HURD are GNU operating systems. Noone owns a trademark on the term GNU, and anyone but RMS and the FSF would have a rather difficult time trying to get one, so it should be quite all right to call such things GNU-like operating systems, rather than labelling them UNIX-like. -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: Junk?
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Michael Merten wrote: On Sat, Jun 05, 1999 at 10:45:25AM -0500, Brad wrote: On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote: [snip] That comes from the elvis package. The MS-DOS stuff is probably because Debian tends to distribute all the documentation, even stuff pertaining to MS-DOS ports of various programs. Probably that's so packages don't have to be massively changed if they ever make a Debian MS-DOS distro ;) [snip] Hey! Now there's a thought! DebDOS!!! ;) Hmmm... Debian GNU/FreeDOS. I like it. A GPL DOS kernel with a full suite of utilities and programs from a GNU-like operating system. Couldn't be *that* much worse than Debian GNU/Win32, as long as 32-bit extenders are used... -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ndn.net/ As time goes on, my signature gets shorter and shorter... - me
Re: Need libgcc2.c ????
The file mentioned sounds like it is part of gcc, which means that the program is causing an error in gcc's internal library. it is uqite common to get a not found message from gdb (especially with e.g. string errors or malloc errors), but it generally points to a lack of checking on the part of the program in question, rather than the compiler or library. What is the output of gdb's `bt` command? On Mon, 10 May 1999, Seppo wrote: Hi! I just uppgraded from Hamm to Slink and faced strange situation. I have one program only in binary, so I can't compile it myself. This program has been compiled with the following system: - 2.0 kernel - g77 0.5.19 - gcc 2.7.2.8 It worked with hamm, but crashes with slink (and potato). gdb gives following info: Core was generated by `bin/msdol'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x40009215 in ?? () and gdb list command gives some more: 1../../gcc/libgcc2.c: No such file or directory. I have tried to find libs, which includes that file, but not succeeded. How to overcome this problem with slink/potato or should I downgrade back to hamm? Thank's beforehand! Seppo -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - whois JKK12 NoDomainName Networks - http://www.nodomainname.net/ - http://www.ndn.net/ If it's not free software it sucks. - Richard Stallman
Re: Lotus Notes apps???
The problem with systems like Notes and Exchange is that they use proprietary protocls for communication (as far as I know). Because of this, I am currently in the process of drafting an RFC for an open protocol with similar funcionality. Hopefully people will be able to agree on this (or a similar) protocol and you WILL be able to get a client (or server) for any platform that works with any other client/server. On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, John Gay wrote: I know this is slightly off topic, but. . . I was recently asked by one of the top men in our network division if I knew of any apps to work with Lotus Notes. We use Lotus Notes 4.5 here for basic E-Mail and other functions. I'm no Linux Guru, I'm just a newbie, but I've been pushing Linux here for quite a while. It now seems that I've made a point here. He said he had a look at Lotus' site, and they say that work is in progress. I was just wondering if anyone knew of anything that could be used. I'm just a simple 'point-N-click' type user myself at the moment, I know nothing about setting up E-Mail or other network type things. But, if I had some pointers I could pass on, I could let the powers that be figure out how to use them. Thanks for any information you may provide. Cheers, John Gay -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - whois JKK12 NoDomainName Networks - http://www.nodomainname.net/ - http://www.ndn.net/ If it's not free software it sucks. - Richard Stallman
Re: XML-based configurations
IMHO, this would be a Bad Thing(tm). It is far beyond the scope of LSB to specify *how* an application stores its configuration. It may be acceptable to specify *where* an application stores its configuration, though. I.e. daemons with one config file store it in /etc, daemons with multiple config files store in a subdirectory of /etc, normal applications store it in a .rc file in the user's home directory, or a .subdirectory for multiple file stuff. However, even that may be beyond LSB, and I really think that dealing with config files should be left to the application vendor. On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Aaron wrote: I propose (or reiterate, if it's already been proposed) that relatively complex, and especially new configuration files be XML-compatible (that is, could be parsed by an XML-parser given a proper DTD). My reasoning is this: doing so would link the myriad of different formats used in system configuration into a single format whose only difference is in the element types used. This would greatly simplify the administrator's work (in that he/she doesn't have to learn obscure formats) and also provides for the developer a coherent means of configuration. It also provides the opportunity for a configuration tool which, given the appropriate DTD, can handle configurations for basically any application making use of XML-based configuration. I see this as especially enabling of application integration in a way far superior to the Microsoft way. Microsoft integrates its applications by binding their code together. I see proper integration as efficient and functional communication between applications. This is made much easier with a standard format of resource storage. This is a similar idea to that of the Xresources and the resource database xrdb. However, an XML based system is far more extensible and universal. Obviously, many things don't have the complexity to require XML, and many applications can't use it due to familiarity to their own traditional configuration formats. But I would propose that any LSB type of configuration (for instance the standard package format, if any) be XML compatible, and that adquate services be made available to encourage (not mandate) application developers to make use of the system (for instance, no one will use XML configuration if a good open source XML renderer is part of the standard base). Along the thread of standardized GUIs, someone mentioned a standard configuration format for window managers/environments. Using XML, this problem will be somewhat solved, especially if a standard base DTD is given which all GUI configurations would have to follow. Environment- specific functionality can be configured using an extended version of the standard DTD. Then converting from one environment to the other while perserving configuration would only consist of extracting those elements which are standard from the configuration and applying them to the new enviroment. Obviously the environment-specific configurations would not be applied because the new environment wouldn't understand them. This way we would capture a base standard for GUI services without constricting GUI developers to that standard (allowing them to add extensions for their particular product). Because XML is relatively easy to understand and even to write DTDs for, it would take a large burden off of developers and administrators/hackers alike. Developers because they would not have to spend time defining their own formats, their own parsers, and possibly attempting to coordinate those formats with other applications' formats. Administrators/hackers because whenever they go to edit a configuration, there is a clear and universal interface to that configuration. -- ?? | Aaron Gaudio mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | |http://www.rit.edu/~adg1653/| ?? | The fool finds ignorance all around him. | | The wise man finds ignorance within. | ?? Use of any of my email addresses is subject to the terms found at http://www.rit.edu/~adg1653/email.shtml. By using any of my addresses, you agree to be bound by the terms therein. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-++ | Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | NoDomainName Networks |http://www.nodomainname.net | | AtDot E-mail Services | http://www.atdot.org | +-++ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM d- s: a--- C$ UL$ P+++ L
Re: Desktop normalizationy
There seems to be an awful lot of fuss over someone's simple suggestion of some way of standardizing the desktop. I think that everyone has taken it out of context, saying that defining a desktop standard is out of the scope of LSB, and that it would take away the customizability that we have. I say hooey. Remember, the point of LSB is to define certain standards that (hopefully) all distributions would follow, guaranteeing that certain things can be done in certain ways. For instance, making sure that printf() does what you want it do, regardless of where your application is installed. And this is something that is sorely needed in the graphical world. Sure, raw Xlib will always be there, but IMHO makes for more difficult coding than toolkits such as GTK+/GNOME and Qt/KDE, as well as being less 'pretty'. What the desktop *needs* is a standard way of getting things done, not necessarily a standard way of showing things. For example, your app needs a button, so you call a button() function that displays a button. Then the system's default (or user chosen) toolkit takes care of drawing the button in a way that is consistent *on that desktop*. I'm not sure if there should be wrappers to the various toolkits or what, but this really needs to be taken care of. If vendor X has product Y, they want it to work on distro A, B, and C without change. This is what LSB is all about. And in the increasingly graphical world of computing, this means that there HAS to be a standard way of getting things done in a graphical environment. Someone mentioned servers and headless machines, where X is not an issue. Point well taken. However, some people have been talking about standardizing compiler environments, but no one mentions Joe Sixpack's home PC. Joe, who knows nothing about programming and just wants to surf the web, do e-mail, and use a word processor, has no need for a standard development environment. But he would benefit greatly from a standard desktop. I think what needs to be done to take care of this is borrow a page from UNIX98 and implement feature sets. For example, the graphical feature set, which defines the common API for drawing buttons, displaying text, etc. in a graphic environment. And the development feature set, which defines certain compiler default behaviors, header files, etc. My 0.02$US. +-++ | Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | NoDomainName Networks |http://www.nodomainname.net | +-++ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM d- s: a--- C$ UL$ P+++ L+++ E--- W++ N++ o k? !w--- O- M+ V PS--- PE+ Y PGP+ t+@ 5 X- R !tv b+ DI++ D++ G++ e h++ r++ y- --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
