Re: OT: Why is C so popular?
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 04:40:01PM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote: At 2003-08-28T18:37:34Z, Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd guess the latter. I've seen what could have been good software engineering if management had been willing to work within the system. I wasn't thinking - 'nuff said. Yeah, I remember a particular manager that was duly impressed by the detailed and useful design documents that my team had developed. About 2 months into the 6 month project, he wanted to know what the project looked like. Oh, it's coming along well, we said. See, we've already implemented and tested all of these components. That's nice, said Manager, but what does it *look* like? Us: Huh? Him: Can you demo the interface? Us: Erm, no. We won't even start on the user interface for another two months. Him: YOU'VE BEEN WORKING FOR TWO MONTHS AND YOU CAN'T EVEN DEMO IT?!? Us: Well, I can show you how the modules look. See? I just frobnitzed the knob from 500 miles away! Him: So, I'm supposed to tell my boss that there's NOT EVEN A DEMO INTERFACE?!? Us: Well, right Do I know you? :-) Sounds like the place I worked, too. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You see, the best way to solve a problem is to rigorously define it in terms of other people's problems and then run away quickly. -- Roland McGrath pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: Why is C so popular?
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:10:10PM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote: At 2003-08-28T18:15:09Z, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SDLC! What a joke! OK, I'll bite. Does everyone here honestly hate software engineering? Or is it that they haven't seen it done well? I'd guess the latter. I've seen what could have been good software engineering if management had been willing to work within the system. (In other words, we need this feature NOW isn't always a great reason to make release X.Y happen _today_). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. -- Chinese Proverb pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: VIA CPU's
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:36:34PM +0100, Peter Nuttall wrote: On Thursday 28 Aug 2003 8:01 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: [ 43 million levels of quoting ] It was a joke. Note the emoticon :-p. I may be American, but I'm not *that* ignorant. Besides, isn't it Pounds Sterling? You ask us the same question every day, and we give you the same answer every day. Someday, we hope that you will believe us... U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to a reporter yes it is pounds sterling and as jokes go that is right up there with the iraq dossiers (this is a ignorance test). ^ an ignorance test, surely? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not start writing it. -- Edsger Dijkstra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Code rights for employees (was Re: SCO identifies code?)
On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 07:21:47PM -0500, Michael D Schleif wrote: if one wants to pick the nits that are actually buzzing around ones head ; Nits don't buzz around your head as they are eggs. (sorry :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For the next hour, WE will control all that you see and hear. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: need djb dnscache init script
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 10:02:03PM -0400, Tom Vier wrote:
i've googgled a bunch, but all i've come up w/ are redhat scripts. anyone
happen to have a debian version?
Install daemontools and run djbdns using svscan as you should. Here's
Adam McKenna's [0] init.d script to start/stop svcsan [1]:
---%---
#!/bin/sh -e
# /etc/init.d/svscan : start or stop svscan.
PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH
case $1 in
start)
echo -n Starting djb services: svscan
env - PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH svscan /service
echo $! /var/run/svscan.pid
echo .
;;
stop)
echo -n Stopping djb services: svscan
kill `cat /var/run/svscan.pid`
echo -n services
svc -dx /service/*
echo -n logging
svc -dx /service/*/log
echo .
;;
restart|reload|force-reload)
$0 stop
$0 start
;;
*)
echo 'Usage: /etc/init.d/svscan {start|stop|restart}'
exit 1
esac
exit 0
---%---
[0] At least, it's a modified version of his script found on his qmail
page, http://www.flounder.net/qmail/qmail-howto.html (the script
doesn't seem to be there today).
[1] Now daemontools sets up svscan so it runs out of init. I find
this to be ... gross.
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A booming voice says, Wrong, cretin!, and you notice that
you have turned into a pile of dust.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Poor performance with 1GB of RAM
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 08:56:01AM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 06:08, Rob Weir wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 02:03:26PM -0700, Mark Ferlatte wrote: J. Zidar said on Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 10:49:21PM +0200: I see. I'm pretty new to Debian and all. I've read that a swap partition is A swap partition is better, in that it's a bit faster than a swap file. However, it's arguable if it matters for you (ie, it depends entirely on the load of the system in question). Just as a point of interest, swap files are effectively as fast as swap partitions in 2.5/2.6. Reason being they now use the same mechanism to be accessed. Also, if you are using LVM Like I do: knight:~# swapon -s Filename Type SizeUsed Priority /dev/rootvg/swap00lv partition 1048568 3140 -1 /dev/rootvg/swap01lv partition 1048568 0-2 Kinda makes no-sense to worry about it. Silly question: why aren't you mounting your swap with equal priority so they load balance? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] See, if you were allowed to keep the money, you wouldn't create jobs with it. You'd throw it in the bushes or something. But the government will spend it, thereby creating jobs. -- Dave Barry pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: multiple network cards bound together
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 09:16:42AM -0400, D. Clarke wrote: Hi! Is it possible to bind multiple (non matching, or matching) network cards together to act as one device? I've got a fileserver here with 2 nics in it, currently both have seperate ip's but I'd like the box to have just one ip but use both cards... is what I'm asking for possible at all? It should work if you install the ifenslave package and enable bonding support in the kernel, and you have a switch that supports etherchannel or multi-link trunks (depending on the vendor). I've been meaning to try this but haven't got around to it ... -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a great idea hits you, and just before you realize what's wrong with it. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful (was Re: Look
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:39:23AM -0700, Alan Connor wrote: From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Aug 7 09:33:53 2003 On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:10:30 -0500 John Hasler wrote: Carlos Sousa writes: Do you also have an account at my service provider? Or is it that you're just incapable of setting up your mail system to show the real origin of your emails? Anyway, you're incurring in mail forgery. No he isn't. His From: line reads From: alanc. As it contains no domain your service provider's MTA adds its own. He's still doing something stupid, but it isn't forgery. Yes, I was aware of that. It's still forgery, though, in the sense that, through his ignorance, he is causing his email to appear to others as coming from non-existent addresses, in spite of having already been warned about it several times since the start of this discussion. -- Carlos Sousa http://vbc.dyndns.org/ The problem has been fixed since yesterday, which makes this post of yours libelous. Which is the greater crime? An inadvertantly misconfigured MUA or libel? Since his mail was in response to one of your misconfigured emails, it isn't libelous. Sorry. I suppose you could retain a lawyer if you're serious about making a libel claim. Say, is your broken threading an inadvertant misconfiguration, or did you break it on purpose? And pray tell just who are you to warn anyone about anything? He's got as much right to speak here as you, I imagine, this being an open forum and all. However, since you brought it up, who are _you_? What's your experience? Where's your resume and references? Have you audited all this code you've written for race conditions, deadlocks, and the like? IOW, why should I download your software which you blithely claim solves all spam problems until the end of time? If I had no opinion regarding CR, I still would think twice about downloading yuour software. Your conversations here do not encourage me to believe that you would handle bug reports in a fashion pleasing to me. (The software does not work in this situation. Yes it does! You do not understand the software. ...) Hot air doesn't bother ME at all. That is manifestly apparent. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. -- Alexander Hamilton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Challenge-response mail filters considered harmful (was Re: Look
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:32:25AM -0700, Alan Connor wrote: From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Aug 7 09:27:07 2003 Carlos Sousa writes: Do you also have an account at my service provider? Or is it that you're just incapable of setting up your mail system to show the real origin of your emails? Anyway, you're incurring in mail forgery. No he isn't. His From: line reads From: alanc. As it contains no domain your service provider's MTA adds its own. He's still doing something stupid, but it isn't forgery. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI Thanks John. Notice that I have fixed the problem. Now if you could fix your MUA so it doesn't break threads, we'll be getting somewhere. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good Debian-based distro
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 02:23:24PM +0200, David Fokkema wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 07:13:10AM -0500, Kent West wrote: Bummer. I had administrator access to our Sparc server for using as a tftp server, but I reckon in a case like yours, you might could have created a mini-LAN with a 4-port hub/switch using the Ultra 5 and any Debian box you have and configure your Debian box to be a tftp server. I've never done it, but it seems like it would probably work. Oh well, maybe next time :-) Indeed. I'd love to see debian on a sparc, :-) It's pretty slick. I've got an Ultra 60 running debian; I installed using the tftp method (I used a debian i386 system as the tftp server). I also had to set up a RARP server; rarpd works great if you are running 2.4.x. I've had debian running on an Ultra 30 as well as some SparcStation 5s. I love that administration is the same interface as that on my i386 boxes. The Ultra 60 is an SNMP poller machine right now; it does a lot of work and is rock solid. I got the whole thing for under $1000 buying piecemeal off ebay. One feature I really like is the boot rom; I run RAID1 root and the machine will try each disk in turn if the first disk(s) has failed. Very few i386 BIOSes support this ... -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] No. Should I include quotations after my reply? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Poor performance with 1GB of RAM
On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 07:41:04PM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 18:14, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 08:56:01AM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: knight:~# swapon -s Filename Type SizeUsed Priority /dev/rootvg/swap00lv partition 1048568 3140 -1 /dev/rootvg/swap01lv partition 1048568 0-2 Kinda makes no-sense to worry about it. Silly question: why aren't you mounting your swap with equal priority so they load balance? Because they are on the same disk... and I don't like swap chunks any larger than 1GB. My rootvg only has /, /boot and swap on it. Other than that, no reason. Now if it was on different IO channels... that'd be different. That's a good reason! Sorry for the question then :^) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What's tiny and yellow and very, very, dangerous? A: A canary with the super-user password. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Look at these update from M$ Corporation.
On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 08:02:18PM +, Andrew McGuinness wrote: Alan Connor wrote: That's how C-R programs work. The bug-track folks wouldn't even know it was operating. Um.. He *is* the bug-track folks, and he just said he can see it operating. Thats 3 idiotic claims in three days. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat ~/.procmail/rc.killfile :0 * ^From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null I can't decide if I want to do that or not; I'd miss out on the humour. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Warning: dates in calendar are closer than they appear. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cannot Connect to some website on linux
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:04:01AM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 00:43, Ron Johnson wrote: ---SNIP--- # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn 1 When /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn had the value 1, I couldn't get to thatpetplace either. However, I could, after I did this, and then restarted Mozilla: # echo 0 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn 0 Make sure to reenable tcp_ecn when you're finished! # echo 1 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn 1 Ron, as of this writing, 12:55AM EDT, I will have to disagree with you about turning tcp_ecn back on. For about the next 2 years at least. [ snip 'windows doesn't do ECN' ] Very little luck with website admins whom have drunk the Microsoft Kool-Aid (I know drank is right but drunk get's the point across better) stating they are using Industry Standards and so on... Er, RFCs are the standards. Well, overall ECN is a great way to make the Internet self-regulate and of course the biggest obstacle is M$ products. But for quite a while yet, defaulting it to OFF is a good thing. I disagree. A better idea is to leave ECN on, and use iptables to mangle packets to sites that reject packets with ECN set. AFAIK there's support to do just this with built-in targets since 2.4.20. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Warning: dates in calendar are closer than they appear. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Could this be debian ?
On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 02:39:00AM -0400, alex wrote: http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2003/2003-07-21.htm Item 10 - Just for grins Get your flamethrowers ready! quote src=http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2003/2003-07-21.htm; meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=windows-1252 meta name=GENERATOR content=Microsoft FrontPage 5.0 meta name=ProgId content=FrontPage.Editor.Document /quote *yawn* -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If man asks for many laws it is only because he is sure that his neighbor needs them; privately he is an unphilosophical anarchist, and thinks laws in his own case superfluous. -- Will Durant pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: why I don't want CCs
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 12:26:36PM -0600, Gary Hennigan wrote: martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] top - 19:32:46 up 104 days, 4:57, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.05 Tasks: 299 total, 1 running, 295 sleeping, 3 stopped, 0 zombie Cpu(s): 0.2% user, 2.7% system, 0.0% nice, 97.1% idle Mem: 2068748k total, 2043068k used,25680k free, 471920k buffers Swap: 498004k total, 4176k used, 493828k free, 1160540k cached Do tell why your top shows two CPU lines and mine only one -- this is also an SMP system, and it works fine, utilising both CPUs... Man, I *REALLY* wanted to avoid this thread! ;) But a legitimate question deserves an answer... Hit 1 while in top and it'll display the CPU info seperately. Er, what version of procps? Doesn't work here; I've got 2.0.7-8 (and a non-i36 arch but I hope that doesn't matter). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. -- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: why I don't want CCs
On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 01:14:52AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 10:01:47AM +0200, Joerg Johannes wrote: And kmail has one major advantage: I can read mails with over-long lines without problems... So can mutt, but the ultimate solution is to tell your correspondants not to send email in a retarded manner. Besides, SMTP _does_ have a line-length limit. There was a thread in the past few months either here or d-curiosa where someone wanted to know why their one-line emails seemed to get truncated after about 1000 characters. RFC2822 section 2.1.1 has all the gory details ... -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. -- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: America's Army
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 08:35:56PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:43:57PM -0500, Nathan E Norman wrote: You mean FreeCraft. Doh, you're right, but I fear not for long. Why, do you think Infogrames (or whoever they are) are going to try to shutdown FreeCiv? You mean Blizzard? Didn't they do Civilisation as well? No, I mean Infogrames as their name is on the Civilization III CD. Blizzard's name does not appear in any Civ docs I've seen. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix was not designed to stop people from doing stupid things, because that would also stop them from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: America's Army
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 06:30:30AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 05:54:46PM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: I hope that the Blizzard's threats that caused the end of FreeCiv You mean FreeCraft. Doh, you're right, but I fear not for long. Why, do you think Infogrames (or whoever they are) are going to try to shutdown FreeCiv? Interestingly, Civ 3 seems to incorporate many ideas from FreeCiv. It's much better than Civ 2. OTOH the MP add-on for Civ 3 sucks rocks. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NEWS FLASH: Scientists decode the first confirmed alien transmission from outer space ... This really works! Just send 5*10^50 H atoms to each of the five star systems listed below. Then, add your own system to the top of the list, delete the system at the bottom, and send out copies of this message to 100 other solar systems. If you follow these instructions, within 0.25 of a galactic rotation you are guaranteed to receive enough hydrogen in return to power your civilization until entropy reaches its maximum! pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: terms of legal remittance [8 days left].
On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 04:22:11PM -0500, Kent West wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following are demanded, debian-boot unsubscription as previously specified [I note that all other lists have been unsubscribed]. Public list apology from c j. Watson. No further libelous statements to be made. Permanent Removal of [EMAIL PROTECTED], this person is spamming me with list mail. DM When this Hell.Surfers guy showed up on the list several weeks ago, several regulars flamed him from past experience. I thought the regulars were being pretty harsh. I'd like to apologize to the regulars for thinking that. :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For myself, I can only say that I am astonished and somewhat terrified at the results of this evening's experiments. Astonished at the wonderful power you have developed, and terrified at the thought that so much hideous and bad music may be put on record forever. -- Sir Arthur Sullivan, message to Edison, 1888 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: issue with make-kpkg kernel_image
On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 06:21:46PM -0500, Kevin McKinley wrote: On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 16:53:42 -0600 Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 12:13:53PM -0900, Andy wrote: I am using this for reference and can successfully do a custom kernel: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-kernel.en.html I must be doing something wrong because when I try to do it again with using Custom.2 I get this error: BTW, what's up with the CAPS in Custom.2?? What's wrong with Caps? The default value for revision is 10.00.Custom. This is unix, Caps are AnNoYiNg. YMMV. If you inferred that I thought the CAPS were the problem, you were mistaken. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Avoid gunfire in the bathroom tonight. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sparc Ultra1 Debian 3.0, kernel 2.4.18 builtin lan card problem...
On Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 06:20:33AM -0500, Michael Bevilacqua wrote: On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 11:23:38AM -0500, Greg Morgan wrote: Any ideas/thoughts on what's going on? Thanks in advance for any help. Does the Openboot screen initally display the hardware address? (mac hex address) Is it an onboard Sun Happy Meal chipset? If not, which chipset? Do you get link lights? I didn't see the original post here, but Ultra 1s have a builtin HME ethernet, and there are known problems with the linux hme driver on Ultra 1s (it doesn't seem to affect other ultras; my ultra 30 and 60 have not had issues). Check the debian-sparc archives; a few different fixes have been posted. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] What's needed is a certification system that separates those who can barely regurgitate what they crammed over the last few weeks from those who command secret ninja networking powers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cdrdao / ide-scsi problem
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 02:07:28AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 10:10:10AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: cdrecord asks the following debconf question: OK, mybad. But xcdroast doesn't, and I never use cdrecord from the command line since xcdroast will do it all in one shot for me. Shoot the maintainer of xcdroast an email asking him about the issue, or open a wishlist bug. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. -- Chinese Proverb pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why am I no longer receiving the digest?
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 10:58:15PM +0100, Pigeon wrote: On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 12:31:56PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 01:41:46PM +0100, Pigeon wrote: Is there some problem with the list servers at the moment? I haven't received a debian-user-digest since March 31st. Yet on visiting Please CC me on replies to this, for obvious reasons. No brilliant ideas, except you can check to see whether the mailserver thinks you are still subscribed. Send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a null subject and a body consisting SOLELY of which your.email. Obviously, you must provide your email address :-) Thanks - a useful trick to know. But it reckons I'm still subscribed. I've had a note from someone else who says he hasn't received a digest since March 30th - so maybe there is a problem. My curiosa subscription still works (I just got your latest post to that list), so it must be a digest-related thing. Bummer. Wish I had something useful to say! Perhaps the listmaster will have something to say. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never tell people how to do things. Tell them WHAT to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: login as root to GUI
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 08:18:30AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 23:31:52 -0800 Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please turn your line wraps on to something more sensable like 72 columns per line instead of one paragraph per line. This isn't meant to be picking on you. But I've been considering this for a while. People shouldn't wrap lines at all in messages they send -- this is a hoary hold-over from the dark ages. Line wrap is a display function, and it should be handled by the receiver's MUA. People who want big windows with wide paragraphs can have them; people who want narrow windows can have those. And people who still use MUAs that can't do line wrap should consider finding one that can. While your points have some technical validity, they fly in the face of accepted netiquette[1]. In this case, I think most people agree that it is better to conform to conventions so that communication is encouraged, rather than to blaze new trails of coolness and technical sophistry[2][3]. mutt does line wrap, but the default is ugly and hard to read. Many popular and useful MUAs don't do linewrap at all. Furthermore, how does someone effectively _quote_ text which is not linewrapped? Now the local MUA has to be smart enough to precede each unwrapped line with the appropriate number of quote characters. Let's just write email in HTML if we're going to expect the receiver to reformat the entire message[3 again]. This is email, not the World Wide Web. Sorry, but I think you're off on the wrong track here. [1] rfc 1855 [2] sorry for the hyperbole [3] there was a huge thread on d-curiosa where some guy argued that html email was the only way to go since it allowed more expression. He was beaten severely about the head and shoulders. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] prepBut nI vrbLike adjHungarian! qWhat's artThe adjBig nProblem? -- alec flett @netscape -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with ddclient
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 09:22:31PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: (Please reply to the list as others may run into this problem, too) On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 10:32:07PM -0500, Stephen Touset wrote: Is that a limitation of ddclient? I've tried inputting the values manually on their webpage, and it works perfectly. Hmm, that's odd... I'd have to look that up but I think MX's have to point to A's by the RFCs. Anybody else have input on this? I'll try :-) *rfc pedant hat on* [rfc 1035, 3.3.9] MX records cause type A additional section processing for the host specified by EXCHANGE. Thus, one can conclude that the authors of the DNS protocol intended that MX records should refer to A records. This does of course incur the cost of an additional lookup on the A record returned. There's been a lot of debate as to whether MX records can indeed return an IP address rather than an A record. Some people have set up their DNS this way, in violation of the RFC. In my opinion, it seems prudent to process these replies (you know, be liberal in what you expect, but conservative in what you send). If an MX record returns IPs instead of A records, it saves one lookup, though you forego the possibility of any round-robin DNS load-balancing. Personally, I think it is best to abide by the RFC and make sure that your MX records, if present, refer to A records. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A young man wrote to Mozart and said: Q: Herr Mozart, I am thinking of writing symphonies. Can you give me any suggestions as to how to get started? A: A symphony is a very complex musical form, perhaps you should begin with some simple lieder and work your way up to a symphony. Q: But Herr Mozart, you were writing symphonies when you were 8 years old. A: But I never asked anybody how. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: unsubscribe
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 02:50:11PM +0100, Mark Martin wrote: Disclaimer The above information is confidential to the addressee and may be privileged. Unauthorised access and use is prohibited. Internet communications are not secure and therefore this company does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. Well heck, that's why your unsubscribe request didn't work! Smartlist saw this disclaimer and got scared. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Profanity is the one language all programmers know best. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: urgent Mail Server
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 10:43:04PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 12:26:37PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: Please read section 5 of rfc 2821. If no MX records are found, but an A RR is found, the A RR is treated as if it was associated with an implicit MX RR, with a preference of 0, pointing to that host. Thus Paul's setup not only works, it _should_ work as it is compliant. OK, I was fairly sure I was right about this. When in doubt, consult the documentation :-) (I admit I am more in tune with reading RFCs than I used to; an artifact of my most recent job). Any MTA which cannot deliver mail to Paul's system due to the lack of an MX record is broken. And it's so rare I don't think I've ever encountered such a broken MTA. Well, with the exception of TMDA, but TMDA is broken for reasons other than this. Hmm, I'm curious: did you run TMDA locally, or are you saying someone else running TMDA couldn't email you? (I'm talking about the TMDA found at http://tmda.net/ ) Really, I don't see how TMDA could be broken WRT your MX record or lack thereof since TMDA isn't an MTA at all. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: login as root to GUI
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 12:49:01PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:47:54 -0600 Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mutt does line wrap, but the default is ugly and hard to read. Many popular and useful MUAs don't do linewrap at all. Furthermore, how does someone effectively _quote_ text which is not linewrapped? Now the local MUA has to be smart enough to precede each unwrapped line with the appropriate number of quote characters. Let's just write email in HTML if we're going to expect the receiver to reformat the entire message[3 again]. This is email, not the World Wide Web. Sorry, but I think you're off on the wrong track here. [1] rfc 1855 [2] sorry for the hyperbole [3] there was a huge thread on d-curiosa where some guy argued that html email was the only way to go since it allowed more expression. He was beaten severely about the head and shoulders. Ah yes, rfc 1855. Dated October 1995. A mere 7 1/2 years ago. From the RFC: This memo does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. You make my point about adherence to outdated standards. You're the one calling it outdated. Many members of this list prefer to follow the guidelines within that document. I didn't say anything about using http. That's not something I proposed; it's a bit of that sophistry you decried. Who said anything about HTTP? I referred you to a thread on d-curiosa where the travesty of HTML email was being discussed; the poster seemed to feel as you do that email technology was somehow lagging behind. It's not cool enough! Let's make it _cooler_. Technology has evolved. Programs have evolved (well, most of them have). Practices should evolve as well. We don't all need to stay stuck in 1995. We're not stuck anywhere. New protocols and communications media are introduced frequently. However, we're not talking about new media, we're talking about an established communications stream which has well-known and expected standards. Do you think email headers should conform to rfc 2822, MTAs should conform to rfc 2821, or ip datagrams should conform to rfc 791? Heck, rfc 791 is _22_ years old! We'd better get rid of that old, pathetic piece of crap! I wouldn't buy any ethernet equipment that conforms to IEEE 802.3 either as that's at least 7.5 years old. Get a clue. Standards are, well, standards. If you want cool flowing text, write a web page or distribute XML documents. I noticed you had no response to the quoting problem. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: default run level
On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 02:39:02PM -0600, Irish, Jon D BAE SYSTEMS wrote: Here is a newbie question: Which default run level do I change inittab to so that the PC boots to a VGA console instead of X? You don't play with inittab at all; this isn't RedHat. See http://home.ix.netcom.com/~kmself/Linux/FAQs/xdm-disable.html, section You don't want to run an XDM login session? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] See, if you were allowed to keep the money, you wouldn't create jobs with it. You'd throw it in the bushes or something. But the government will spend it, thereby creating jobs. -- Dave Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: urgent Mail Server
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 09:09:07AM -0600, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote: Quoting Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [snip] An MX is only needed if some other system is going to be handling the mail bound for that one. You can get away with this most of the time. However, the RFCs do require that you have an MX record and some mail servers are setup to not accept mail from servers/domains that do not have MX records as a anti-spam measure. If you are using dyndns.org, you can set a MX record. Uh, I just finished reading rfc 2821 for a project and I can't agree with your reading at all. I refer you to section 5 (page 60). Could you explain why you feel the RFC says you MUST have an MX record? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There's a positive side to non-technical people -- they actually tend to have some grasp of how human psyche works. -- Josip Rodin (on d-devel) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: urgent Mail Server
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 09:18:50AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 01:31:02 -0800 Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess this message is some sort of demented halucination. I have never had an MX record...yet I still get the list. I also haven't had He didn't say the person with the mail server needed an MX record, he said that somewhere out there on the internet there is a nameserver for your domain name with MX records that point at your mail server. Apparently for you that somewhere is dyndns. If *no one* had it, you wouldn't receive mail. Please read section 5 of rfc 2821. If no MX records are found, but an A RR is found, the A RR is treated as if it was associated with an implicit MX RR, with a preference of 0, pointing to that host. Thus Paul's setup not only works, it _should_ work as it is compliant. Any MTA which cannot deliver mail to Paul's system due to the lack of an MX record is broken. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why am I no longer receiving the digest?
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 01:41:46PM +0100, Pigeon wrote: Is there some problem with the list servers at the moment? I haven't received a debian-user-digest since March 31st. Yet on visiting lists.debian.org I see there's been plenty of traffic. Has anybody else not received the digest? Er, well, if anyone HAS been receiving the digest normally since 31st March, could you please tell me? I haven't changed anything in my mail setup, and there's nothing in my exim logs to indicate that I've inadvertently bounced any digests. They just stopped coming in. Please CC me on replies to this, for obvious reasons. No brilliant ideas, except you can check to see whether the mailserver thinks you are still subscribed. Send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a null subject and a body consisting SOLELY of which your.email. Obviously, you must provide your email address :-) Good luck, -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GUIs normally make it simple to accomplish simple actions and impossible to accomplish complex actions. -- Doug Gwyn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: error on boot up
On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 03:15:38PM +0800, lito lampitoc wrote: Hi All, Sorry if this is OT, but I seems to be the only one on debian-sparc list, that why I'm cross posting this. Er, I never saw your post on debian-sparc ... taking it back there. I installed debian 3 on my Sun sparc netra i20 using only the first disk. But during boot up to complete my installation I received the following errors: SILO buggy old PROMs don't allow reading past 1GB from start of the disk.. Read error on block 327684 Cannot find /etc/silo.conf (Attempt to read block from filesystem resulted in short read) Could'nt load /etc/silo.conf prior to this, I created a /boot partition of 10MB and the rest was for the system, So I guess that SILO buggy old PROM.. error shouldn't appear, but it did. Of course it did; even though you installed your kernel in /boot, SILO still thinks it's installing from / (the large partition). Thus, SILO cannot read its own config file due to the buggy boot PROM problem. Solution: First, edit /etc/silo.conf and make the following changes: * the partition directive should specify the partition /boot is on. Thus if /boot is /dev/sda1. silo.conf should have partition=1. * each image directive needs to be changed so that it lists the kernels _as they appear in /boot_; the symlinks in / _are not visible to silo_. THIS IS IMPORTANT! You'll end up with something lioke this: image=1/vmlinuz-2.4.18 label=2.4.18 root=/dev/sda2 read-only * run the following commands # mkdir /boot/etc # cp /etc/silo.conf /boot/etc # ln -sf /boot/etc/silo.conf /etc/silo.conf # silo -r /boot Also, I'm confused about the start cylinder, in debian, it says that it should start at cylinder 0, but in Mandrake 7.1 for sparc, it says it should start at cylinder 1 because starting from 0 will damage the partition. What is the correct one?. Though I tried both it didn't make any difference. cylinder 0 works fine for ext2, ext3 partitions. I had some trouble when experimenting with other filesystems; for instance creating an XFS filesystem on a partition starting on cylinder 0 overwrote the Sun disklabel. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people. -- Laurence J. Peter pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: sparc stability
On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 02:30:12AM +0100, Warwick Brown wrote: heya peeps, ive been trying to run linux on sparc for a while now, but no matter what distributuib/kernel i use, it seems to crash on an almost daily basis, im using a Sun Creator3D/30, and i cant seem to find any resolve, ive used splack, suse, debian, aurora, with no joy, and kernels from 2.4.19 to 2.4.21-pre6 with no joy, they all seem to suffer stack overflows, which in turn cause a core dump any ideas? i know its a little vague waz p.s. what uptimes do fellow sparc'ers get? You might want to hang out on debian-sparc. I've got an Ultra 30 which is my desktop; I shut it off when I'm not using it because it's damaging my hearing :-) I also have an Ultra 60 which is supposed to be a server but is mostly sitting around doing nothing: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uptime 21:13:16 up 34 days, 23:23, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 I also have two Sparcstation 5s here but right now they are off. I'm guessing you have an Ultra 30 with a Creator 3D framebuffer? There's no such model as a Sun Creator :-) it sounds to me like you have a hardware problem. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] See, if you were allowed to keep the money, you wouldn't create jobs with it. You'd throw it in the bushes or something. But the government will spend it, thereby creating jobs. -- Dave Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] no space after defined \newcommands in LaTeX
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 07:44:01PM -0500, Nori Heikkinen wrote:
how do you mean, they have to do that for most commands they didn't
write?
A builtin, like \TeX. I can't write \TeX is really cool, I have to
write \TeX{} is really cool.
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that
they be properly armed.
-- Alexander Hamilton
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Re: Networking troubles with multiple nics
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 01:23:09PM -0600, Eric Eelkema wrote: Hi, I have a 486 with three 3c509 cards set up as a router. It took some work to get the cards on different IRQs, but I think I did that correctly, and all of them work individually. The problem is, when I bring up both interfaces to the internal network, the one I bring up first works, but the other doesn't. Has anyone had this problem before? More importantly, what can I do to fix it? More info: Router eth0 is dhcp, connected to the cable modem eth1 is 192.168.1.3 eth2 is 192.168.1.4 Internal computer A has eth0 192.168.1.1 connected to 192.168.1.3 Internal computer B has eth0 192.168.1.2 connected to 192.168.1.4 [ snip ] The state of the router's eth0 doesn't seem to make any difference (and it works just fine). Any pointers to what the problem could be are much appreciated. Thanks in advance. I don't mean to be rude, but it is fairly clear that you don't understand IP networking or routing. Briefly, here's what's wrong with your setup: linux (and most operating systems for that matter) expect each interface to exist on a distinct network. However, you have one logical network (192.168.1.0/24) that you've divided across two interfaces (eth1 and eth2). Furthermore, you've addressed your machines in such a way that your setup will never work without major surgery. Solutions: 1) Buy a cheap hub or switch, plug eth1, A, and B into it, and forget about eth2. 2) assign seperate networks to eth1 and eth2 (and by inference, A and B). Something like this in /etc/network/interfaces: auto lo iface lo inet loopback auto eth0 iface eth0 inet dhcp auto eth1 iface eth1 inet static address 192.168.1.1 network 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.252 broadcast 192.168.1.3 auto eth2 iface eth2 inet static address 192.168.1.5 network 192.168.1.4 netmask 255.255.255.252 broadcast 192.168.1.7 Then, you must configure A with address 192.168.1.2, netmask 255.255.255.252, gateway 192.168.1.1; and B with address 192.168.1.6, netmask 255.255.255.252, gateway 192.168.1.5. 3) You could set up eth1 and eth2 as a bridge. This requires software and kernel options that may not be stable, and is the really hard way to do #1 (though you'll save $20). If I were you, I'd implement #1, and then spend some time reading the networking HOWTO. Everyone started there (or someplace similar) at one time. Good luck! -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people. -- Laurence J. Peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Networking troubles with multiple nics
On Sun, Mar 30, 2003 at 07:59:21PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:56:15 -0600 Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: auto eth1 iface eth1 inet static address 192.168.1.1 -- network 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.252 broadcast 192.168.1.3 auto eth2 iface eth2 inet static address 192.168.1.5 -- network 192.168.1.4 netmask 255.255.255.252 broadcast 192.168.1.7 Wouldn't it be easier to just use: 192.168.1.1 for eth1 192.168.2.1 for eth2 I don't see why. Clearly the OP is using his ethernet to create point to point links; using more address space than necessary[1] is probably not going to teach the OP anything. If you're going to learn IP networking and routing, it's a good idea to quit thinking about classful networks, IMO. Hence my example. If it's easier to use 2 /24s, why not 2 /16s? If you want to argue that subnetting and dotted quads are hard to deal with, I agree. That is why on machines with more than one interface i ignore the debian provided ifupdown package which prefers ifconfig, and roll my own using iproute2 (in the iproute package). That allows the much more readable ip addr add 192.168.0.1/24 eth1 ip link set eth1 up Of course, YMMV. In any case, I believe a primary purpose of this list is to teach, not just solve problems. If I can make someone _think_ I've been more successful than if I fixed whatever was broke. Oh and BTW, the OP responded to me privately saying that the above soultion worked just fine. I would have just used a switch, myself. [1] Admittedly my example wastes two addresses per subnet; I'm pretty sure linux will allow /31 PTP links as per the internet-draft, but why risk it? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Whenever men attempt to suppress argument and free speech, we may be sure that they know their cause to be a bad one. -- R. G. Horton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [~OT] tax program for linux
On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 12:45:55AM -0500, Fred Smith wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 22:25, Nori Heikkinen wrote: My dad, who has graciously done my taxes for me every year up until now, has finally shuffled them off to me. When i ask him how to do them, he keeps telling me to get TurboTax for windoze. I keep reminding him I run linux, but he keeps forgetting. Is there an equivalent linux program that anyone here knows about / uses? or do i have to suck it up and do them by hand? i'd try gnucash/kapital/moneydance first, but if they won't do what you want, turbotax does run under wine/crossover wine. (codeweavers.com) i've heard really bad rumblings from some mailing lists that intuit (the turbotax/quicken people) building in a lot of nasty features into the newer versions of turbotax/quicken. most people i know are trying desperatley to move away from turbotax/quicken because of these changes. Features such as ... ? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This disclaimer is priviledged information and may not be read by anyone except the intended recipient, whoever that is. If you are not the intended recipient and have read this disclaimer, you are naughty and shan't be allowed any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't take your meat? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 11:41:25AM +0200, Aryan Ameri wrote: On Saturday 29 March 2003 02:37, Roberto Sanchez wrote: -MS Windows controlled BIOS setup (I just found out the new Toshiba laptops have no more hit ESC to enter setup on boot. It is all handled through Windows utilities written by the vendor) Oh, This can be the worst news of the day for me. I always thought something like this will be impossible. Isn't this illegal? If toshiba is doing this, by M$'s request, then it clearly is violation of anti trust (or what ever law), right? Nah, just sounds like stupidity to me. Compaq PCs used to have a similar thing where they had a setup partition that ran some GUIish DOS-based crap. The system BIOS was just smart enough to look for the setup partition (which of course had a special ID) when you hit F10 or whatever. This was the primary reason I swore off Compaq some years ago. OTOH I've always hated Toshiba laptops, too :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quando omni flunkus moritati. -- Possum Lodge Motto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 12:34:47AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 04:21:23PM +1200, cr wrote: That 'tech support' is a red herring anyway, at least if you have Internet access. I've had better support from the linux-newbie, gnome, debian mailing lists (and even from a guy I just happen to have met on a completely unrelated mailing list who runs a Linux network in UK) than I *ever* have from any official source. Because volunteers don't have to be paid, are self-motivated and don't have to worry about a big client suing them for bad advice. The Linux support model works better because the people volunteering to do it tend to know what they're doing than some outsource[1] bob who may have just walked in off the street for a call center job and may or may not be reading off some mandated flow chart. Newbies don't quite get this, oddly enough, never mind they've probably used a similar model by asking a friend for help before trying to call tech support... [1] I know the horror first hand. Worked in a 5000 employee call center for Stream International and there were maybe 20 people who didn't have to use the flow charts...alt.tech-support.recovery has similar tales from around the world from outsource bobs with a clue. Now, imagine calling tech support for major router vendor C, J, or N; or calling tech support for a tier 1 provider. If you can quickly demonstrate that you have a clue, you get lucky and get moved up to a level 2 or 3 tech. Otherwise you are stuck with bob. Bob sucks when your PC is broken; he really sucks when your network is down. I hate tech support. It's a PITA to call, and sucks to be on the other side too. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Designing a Website
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 05:33:54PM +0200, Aryan Ameri wrote: Hi there: I am a freshman student, in Computer Studies. A project has recently been assigned to us in one of our courses (intro to computers), and as I don't have experience building websites, I am seeking your advice in this regard. [ snip the horror that occurs at most universities these days ] In a nutshell, I want to design a website, that is pleasent to eyes, the webpage should be dynamic, and at the same time, I don't want to use non-free software in developing my site, and I don't want it to be non-standard. Is there such a souloution? I know some basic html, but I haven't really designed a website yet. Where shall I begin? What shall I use? Is it possible to design a *nice* and a *standard* webpage? I don't want to start coding html in Emacs. I have heard that there are some free tools available, for the purpose of building websites. But I don't have a clue about any of them. Any advice or URL, or howto that you can point me to, is greatly appreciated. You could check out http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/ . Eric Meyer is well repsected (by some people, at least :-) Good luck with the nutty professor. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] THEY planted The Lone Gunmen to MIND CONTROL the public into seeing TRUTH SEEKERS as CONSPIRACY NUTS. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Designing a Website
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 08:24:53PM +0200, Aryan Ameri wrote: Did I ask for a tutorial on Basic html tags? or did I ask wether graphic intensive websites are good pr bad? Neither, you asked asked for help creating an aesthetically pleasing web page which conformed to standards so you could get a good grade. I don't remember so. I recommend you read Nettiquets one more time. ^^ That's netiquette. Since you brought up netiquette, I have some complaints: [ your sig ] /* Those who do not understand Unix *are condemned to reinvent it, poorly */ -UNDEAD Evil GNU/Linux Aryan Ameri Your sig does not begin with a single line consisting of the three characters -- (ignoring the quotes); such a delimiter is considered standard. Secondly, as far as I am aware your tagline is misattributed (though I confess I'm not sure whether you are claiming UNDEAD Evil GNU/Linux said that tagline or not). I believe it is widely accepted that Henry Spencer is the origin of that quote. Good day, -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never tell people how to do things. Tell them WHAT to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How should we handle people who can not unsubscribe?
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:14:24PM -0500, Mark L. Kahnt wrote: [ snip ] I am getting the impression that many people commenting in this thread didn't pay attention to what the OP was dealing with. IIUC, his email address has been changed by his ISP from .com to .net, and while they are still accepting email to the .com address and putting it in his .net mailbox, he hasn't been able to email out as the .com address to unsubscribe (although it is immensely questionable if he is comprehending that it must be that address he uses to unsubscribe.) Passing a comprehension test as described here is not going to demonstrate sufficient clue-iostity to deal with unsubscribing when you can no longer use the outbound address. On the contrary; as the originator of the comprehension test idea, I am well aware of the OPs problems, at least as regards this mailing list. However, it was obvious that this particular user was not too good at comprehending instructions given to him by various list members. I can think of at least three possible solutions presented, those being: 1) send an email with the correct email address, 2) use the web page to unsubscribe; a URL was presented, 3) block incoming mail from l.d.o so he gets bounced off (a great idea, I thought). It appears the OP finally chose option 2. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This disclaimer is priviledged information and may not be read by anyone except the intended recipient, whoever that is. If you are not the intended recipient and have read this disclaimer, you are naughty and shan't be allowed any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't take your meat? pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Designing a Website
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 10:33:33PM +0200, Aryan Ameri wrote: Your sig does not begin with a single line consisting of the three characters -- (ignoring the quotes); such a delimiter is considered standard. ASAIKS, my sig does have that -- character, because KMail 1.5 automatically puts it before the signature. Hmm, mea culpa. I see that it is indeed there. You could probably lose some of the empty lines following it, but I've ragged on you enough today. I apologise for claiming your sig was missing the delimiter. Say, would you be offended if I asked you to wrap your lines a bit earlier than 80? :-) 65-72 seem to be widely used wrap columns. Secondly, as far as I am aware your tagline is misattributed (though I confess I'm not sure whether you are claiming UNDEAD Evil GNU/Linux said that tagline or not). I believe it is widely accepted that Henry Spencer is the origin of that quote. I got that quote, from a website called UNDEAD EVIL Linux. It's the website of a Linux distro, and in the website, the original author of the quote wan't mentioned, so I thought maybe it's their own original quote. Anyway, I will change it, now that I know the original author. And BTW, thanks for the URL you gave me. It seems to be a valueable resource about CSS. I hope it works out for you, and again, good luck with the professor. He sounds like more of an asshole than I am. I would guess that if your site looks good in MSIE, you're good to go. I don't know if you explored Eric's page, but apparently ESPN's website is using CSS instead of tables for layout these days (among other sites). I don't know how standards compliant it is, but I always liked the look of www.xiph.org, though some browsers do a poor job rendering it. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Multiculturalism is one society's tolerance of other societies' intolerance. -- Mark Steyn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dpkg/dselect misbehavior
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 10:42:19AM -0500, Stephan Sauerburger wrote: [ please don't top post ] Oh man.. I just spent about 4 days installing packages and reconfiguring it from scratch, including rolling a new kernel. Not having to completely redo all of it again from a Woody CD would be most preferred. Is there any sort of Potato-to-Woody (2.2 to 3.0) automated update procedure implemented? Of course! This is debian, it's designed to be upgradable. I have in my possession a machine running woody which was installed with hamm (or bo, I can't really remember). Since someone has written a document explaining the upgrade process, I'll point you there (I assume you're on i386): http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Just because an idea originated at redhat does not mean it is evil. -- Sean 'Shaleh' Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pxelinux boot isn't loading woody kernel
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 06:05:32PM -0500, Susan Kleinmann wrote: I am trying to install Debian onto a floppy-less CD-ROM-less Shuttle XPC SS40G with an AMD Athlon installed. Following the instructions at: http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=818 I obtained the linux.bin and root.bin files from the woody distribution, (woody/main/disks-i386/current/bf2.4), installed them as suggested, got the Shuttle to connect to a DHCP server and fetch itself an IP address, return a boot prompt, and then begin booting. Soon thereafter, the boot loader gets stuck, with the following message: Loading. 8000 AX:0208 BX:0200 CX:0002 DX:. 8000 AX:0208 ... (repeats) At this point, the tftp process begins to record this in syslog: sent DATA block: 36, size 512 timeout: retrying... I checked the md5sums of the linux.bin and root.bin files were correct. Can anyone offer suggestions as to what I might look at to diagnose this problem? Thanks in advance, Susan P.S. In case it matters: this system comes with a network chip built into the motherboard, but I also installed a second network card, and that's what I'm booting with. Hi Susan, This is a shot in the dark since I don't have any PXE cards installed right now. However, I have done netboot installs for several of my sparcs and ran into a similar problem. The symptom was that after downloading some amount (a power of 2 no less) the download would freeze, and tftpd began logging timeouts. I discovered that this was because the machine attempting to netboot had grabbed an IP address already in use elsewhere on the network! Good luck! -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as by the abuses of power. -- James Madison pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: buying a cd writer
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 11:10:30PM +, Jonathan Matthews wrote: On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 08:01:33PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Yes, agree, I have an old 12x lite on and a newer 40x. Works fine on both windoze and debian. I'm also useing a Plextor 48x, very nice. And a old Sony 12x and a Teac scsi 12x, also very nice. I'm useing scsi emulation on everything exept for the Teac ofcourse:) . The good ting about scsi emu is that when you have a burner and a cd/dvd you are able to copy cd's on the fly. I've always wondered about this. Is it the case (as a local PC shop assistant tried to convince me recently) that having the reader and burner on the same IDE interface means that copying CDs is faster? As though the reader can put the data on the wire and the burner read it directly, without it having to go reader - ide bus - cpu (or mainboard) - ide bus - writer. Er, I'd say that is not true. Since IDE devices have no built in controller like SCSI devices, there's no way the data can short circuit as your apparently clueless local shopkeeper claims. In fact, I would _never_ recommend putting another IDE device on an IDE controller that's already controlling a CD burner. In the beginning, this was inviting disaster; things have improved some I am sure with higher write speeds and write caches, but why tempt fate? Even with SCSI I prefer to hang tape drives, CD burners and other slow I/O devices off a dedicated controller. Totally aside from this, how /do/ I copy a CD directly (in my case, from /dev/dvd to /dev/cdrom)? Can I do something like $ dd if=/dev/dvd | cdrecord - assuming that all of cdrecord's options are set correctly in /etc/default? Any caveats for audio CD versus data? Dunno, I always create an image file on the assumption that I may need it for later (like, if the media you're writing on has a flaw, etc.) There was a thread here within the last 45 days or so regarding copying audio CDs. Check the archives. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quando omni flunkus moritati. -- Possum Lodge Motto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: God answeres my prayers to get off this list, NO!, God says, Your pain must endure forever!!!
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 11:39:41AM +0100, Nicos Gollan wrote: OK, you get _one_ more chance before I forward each and every message I get from the list to you. Yes, that's a threat. Yes, I'd do this. It'll become active if I see one more dumb post by you dating from after 11:45 CEDST. Please don't do this ... if you don't violate your provider's AUP you'll at the very least portray the debian community in a poor light. If the presence of someone who appears to be lacking intelligence raises your blood pressure so much, please either procmail them into oblivion or start a philosphy thread on the subject :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] It doesn't matter what you are doing, emacs is always overkill. -- Stephen J. Carpenter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: apt-get dist-upgrade bails
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 12:24:59AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 10:10:17PM +, Jonathan Matthews wrote: apt-get install apt dpkg tar ( ... any others anyone?) debconf apt-get dist-upgrade This is redundant. Things apt depends on always get resolved and installed first as far as I can tell. When apt can deduce this from the dependency information, you're correct. However, I personally have experienced situations where i saved myself a lot of pain by installing some bit first (apt, dpkg, debconf) rather than trying it all in one fell swoop. Things weren't irretrievably broken, but I did have to run apt-get dist-upgrade several times consecutively to get things sorted out. I found the former method to be more efficent. Remember, a dist-upgrade is not the same as an upgrade. In any case, apt kicks ass. A friend of mine was at a class recently and several participants were bemoaning the difficulty of keeping a redhat box secure, keeping up with patches, etc. They freaked out when he showed them apt. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What's the difference between a computer salesman and a used car salesman? A: A used car salesman knows when he's lying. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Linux Sucketh not.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 11:30:36PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 11:17:31PM -0800, Paul E Condon wrote: This is a reply to this email as received in digest mode. I use mutt to read my mail. In mutt, I open the digest email by pressing CR, and then open a pick-list of contents of the email using 'v'. Then each post to the list appears as a separate 'sub-email'. I use 'L' to reply to the list from within one of the sub-emails just as I would reply if the emails had arrived individually. I have to wonder if procmail can barf (that's the opposite of digesting, right?) digests into an mbox. formail(1) certainly can do it. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. -- William Pitt pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Limit a process's CPU usage?
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 02:15:03PM +0100, Joerg Johannes wrote: On Friday 28 March 2003 12:52, Thomas Krennwallner wrote: A quick look gave me: limits(5) In Debian it seems to be /etc/security/limits.conf and not /etc/limits as described in limits(5) As I understand it, this will limit my whole CPU time (it is set on login). This is rather bad, as I use GIMP and pdflatex from time to time, and these should run at full speed. thanks anyway Run setiathome as a different user, and apply limits. PS I don't have a limits(5) manpage. What package provides it? I do have the file /etc/security/limits.conf ... -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Warning: dates in calendar are closer than they appear. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Limit a process's CPU usage?
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 05:01:39PM +0100, Thomas Krennwallner wrote: On Fri Mar 28, 2003 at 08:34:21AM -0600, the boisterous Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to me: PS I don't have a limits(5) manpage. What package provides it? I do have the file /etc/security/limits.conf ... $ dpkg -S /usr/share/man/man5/limits.5.gz passwd: /usr/share/man/man5/limits.5.gz $ dpkg -S /etc/security/limits.conf libpam-modules: /etc/security/limits.conf Hmm, apparently you are running something other than stable. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] When you're in command, command. -- Adm. Chester W. Nimitz pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How should we handle people who can not unsubscribe?
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 07:10:27PM +0200, Barak Korren wrote: Nathan E Norman wrote: On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 04:04:38AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote: Oh, as for subscription address, maybe we need to tell outlook user how to read their mail header. People forgets where they subscribed from and outlook users tend to lack skill to find it or read web site. style=mostly joking Or, we could require users to pass some sort of comprehension test before successfully subscribing to the list /style joking Actullay implementing this test will be real easy, just cancel the web subscription form... /joking Surely someone could write a CGI-based comprehension test :-) A few questions, multiple choice answers ... could be fun. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reporting a bug
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 10:29:32AM -0500, Francis Lau wrote: Hi, I'm quite new at Debian so please bare with me. I was trying to install wu-ftp on a machine and the following message popped up: You do know there's a debian package of wu-ftpd, right? I'll skip my usual rant regarding the FTP protocol :-) setup4:/usr/local/src/wu-ftpd-2.6.2/src# make gcc -g -O2 -o ftpd COPYRIGHT.o vers.o ftpd.o ftpcmd.o glob.o logwtmp.o popen.o access.o extensions.o realpath.o acl.o private.o authenticate.o conversions.o rdservers.o paths.o hostacc.o sigfix.o auth.o routevector.o restrict.o domain.o wu_fnmatch.o timeout.o getpwnam.o -L../support -lcrypt -lnsl -lresolv -lsupport /local/imap/libsshadow.a -lgdbm -lgdbm_compat /usr/bin/ld: ../support/libsupport.a(strcasestr.o)(.text+0x14): unresolvable relocation against symbol `strlen@@GLIBC_2.0' /usr/bin/ld: BFD 2.12.90.0.1 20020307 Debian/GNU Linux internal error, aborting at ../../bfd/elf32-i386.c line 1887 in elf_i386_relocate_section /usr/bin/ld: Please report this bug. collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [ftpd] Error 1 Can anyone please advise me on how to report the bug? I went on the Debian BTS and tried to search for it, but it requires a bug by number (which i don't have) or package name (which i don't know how to find). [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ which ld /usr/bin/ld [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ dpkg -S /usr/bin/ld binutils: /usr/bin/ld Looks like you should bug the maintainer of binutils. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never tell people how to do things. Tell them WHAT to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: System Slows Down
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 10:32:53AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:41:09 -0800
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 11:44:38AM +0200, Barak Korren wrote:
2. The right way to configure crontab it to use the contab (1)
command.
This is only the case when you want to update a user's crontab. The
version of cron distributed with Debian automagically detects when
/etc/crontab has been updated. The crontab itself can't be edited
with crontab(1) AFAIK.
I think you're both partly right here. The system crontab can't be
edited with the crontab command. It looks like The Debian Way to do
cron is to add scripts to /etc/cron.daily or /etc/cron.weekly or
/etc/cron.monthly depending on how often you want the jobs to run.
The Debian Way as far as packages are concerned. The administrator
can do anything she pleases. It's far safer for automated scripts to
create/remove files (in /etc/cron.{d,daily,weekly,monthly} in this case)
rather than add or delete lines from a file (/etc/crontab).
It also looks like postgres doesn't want to play that way; it has a
piece of crontab under /etc/cron.d.
*sigh*
man cron(8):
DEBIAN SPECIFIC
cron treats the files in /etc/cron.d as extensions to the
/etc/crontab file (they follow the special format of that
file, i.e. they include the user field). The intended purÂ
pose of this feature is to allow packages that require
finer control oftheirschedulingthanthe
/etc/cron.{daily,weekly,monthly} directories allow to add
a crontab file to /etc/cron.d. Such files should be named
after the package that supplies them. Files must conform
to the same naming convention as used by run-parts(8):
they must consist solely of upper- and lower-case letters,
digits, underscores, and hyphens. Like /etc/crontab, the
files in the /etc/cron.d directory are monitored for
changes.
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For the next hour, WE will control all that you see and hear.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 06:48:26AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 04:13:14PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: Perhaps I am out in left field, but if a business considers a $1500 computer expensive, there may be other problems at said company besides fear of linux. I can go into any local-owned computer store and they'll sell me a machine comparable to Dell's offerings at around half the price and they'll back thier work. $1500 is quite expensive for a single PC. I jumped into the thread late and thought we were talking about a server, not a plain vanilla PC. Personally, I build my own PCs or buy crazy stuff off ebay :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] THEY planted The Lone Gunmen to MIND CONTROL the public into seeing TRUTH SEEKERS as CONSPIRACY NUTS. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 12:42:38PM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote: It's not a question of *me* not wanting a GUI. I'm asking whyinhell *anyone* would want one. What does it enhance? What's the design goal? So far the only thing I've ever seen in print is that it needs to be done because the lamers want it. Debian strives for technical excellence. So supposedly, adding a GUI to the installer improves things somehow? Unfortunately, we live in a GUI point-and-click world now. If we expect to see Linux on the desktop really take off, this is something every distro will need to implement. I think you've just made an unfounded logical leap. Why does _every_ distribution need a graphical installer to make linux on the desktop a reality? Clearly the answer is, not every distro needs a graphical installer. If a distribution wants to cater to server-type machines, that's ok (it's great, really). If a distribution wants to cater to elites, that's fine too. If a distribution wants to ensure that the installer works when the console is a serial port, that's wonderful. Besides, linux on the desktop is a rather nebulous term. I know several people who would love to roll out desktop boxes running linux in their company; this would prevent joe clueless user from playing solitaire, installing backgrounds and mouse cursors, etc. I suspect you mean something very different, where linux becomes the Windows XP killer. That may or may not happen. Personally, I think there are two problems with the latter vision; the average (desktop) computer user views the computer as an appliance, but the average computer is too costly and not reliable enough to be an appliance. Secondly, as long as software companies feel they can make money and lock in market share by releases patent encumbered software (think audio/video codecs) and as long as major players _use_ that software, linux is fighting an uphill battle since linux represents the opposite philosophy, that of openness. You are right, though, that a GUI installer will add nothing in terms of functionality. But, the technical elite (if that is what you want to call them) can still use the CLI and CURSES interfaces when available. In my case, I use GUI tools just because I have only been using Linux for 6 months and haven't learned everything yet. For example, last month I got DSL but I haven't learned iptables yet. So I installed firestarter and voila. Now I am up and running until I can learn the intricacies (which I want to). But, if I decide to not learn iptables the thing still works. Devil's advocate: how do you knmow firestarter does what it says it is doing if you don't understand iptables? Please don't take this as a personal attack; I just feel if you don't understand the technology, using said technology is fraught with peril. For a real world example, think routing protocols and look hard at the internet. There is breakage every day caused by ignorance. A GUI interface is not mutually exclusive to technical excellence. I think that Linux needs to be marketed to the average user. When more people start using it more third party apps get written and more current apps get impoved causing an overall improvement. The ultimate design goal should be overall improvement of the product. The GUI will help achieve that in a roundabout way. Ok, linux needs to be marketed to the average user. Why does that equate to debian must satisfy the needs of all users ? Note: I'm not saying debian shouldn't be easier to install, I just want you to think about why things that are good for linux may not necessarily be good for debian[1]. Finally, let me quote Doug Gwyn: GUIs normally make it simple to accomplish simple actions and impossible to accomplish complex actions. Ah, the random sig generator comes through again :-) [1] You realise debian is about more than just linux, right? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves possess. -- Gandalf the Grey -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 07:51:56AM -0800, Kenward Vaughan wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 08:33:46AM +0100, Conrad Newton wrote: From Roberto Sanchez on Tuesday, 2003-03-25 at 18:45:52 -0500: It didn't work out. I offered some other ideas (as suggested here on the ... Just out of curiosity, what are the specs of the new machine, and what are they proposing to do with it? I cannot understand why they did not buy 2-3 machines instead of one expensive one. Is there some explanation other than blind stupidity? Probably a Dell lover in the group who knows no better, but loves their ads. Dude, you're getting a cell! (sorry). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 08:33:46AM +0100, Conrad Newton wrote: From Roberto Sanchez on Tuesday, 2003-03-25 at 18:45:52 -0500: It didn't work out. I offered some other ideas (as suggested here on the list), and got a we'll think about it. Today when I went into the lounge, I saw the shiny new ~$1500 Dell. They also won't let me have the old machines, since they could only afford one new one. They will apparently need to continue using those as is. Oh well. Maybe next time. Thanks for all the ideas. -Roberto Sanchez Just out of curiosity, what are the specs of the new machine, and what are they proposing to do with it? I cannot understand why they did not buy 2-3 machines instead of one expensive one. Is there some explanation other than blind stupidity? Perhaps I am out in left field, but if a business considers a $1500 computer expensive, there may be other problems at said company besides fear of linux. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You see, the best way to solve a problem is to rigorously define it in terms of other people's problems and then run away quickly. -- Roland McGrath -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remount md0 after disc failure
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 01:43:09PM +1100, Lindsay Yardley wrote: G'day all, I have or will have in a few minutes (I hope): hda1: /boot hda2: / hda3: swap md0: /home My question is: If hda fails and I replace it, reinstall debian then umount /home from / then mount /home on md0 the system will be restored and I'll have access to my old /home directory, right/wrong? Before we proceed, let's clear this up: what type of RAID device is /dev/md0, and what partitions are assigned to it? $ cat /proc/mdstat ought to shed some light on the issue. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I retract that silly statement. Somebody slap me. -- Roy Smith -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: leaving computer on 24/7
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 10:12:14PM +, Karsten M. Self wrote: on Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 10:03:39AM -0800, Bill Wohler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Koen Dejonghe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I installed debian woody on an ordinary pc and was wondering if I can leave the machine on 24/7 without damaging it. If anything, it's harder on the machine to turn it on and off rather than just leave it running. Additional problem: stiction on old drives. I've got a set of SCSIs from 1998 which can't be shut down for more than a few minutes without requiring some manual encouragement to spin up again. Ah, the old whack the drive case with a screwdriver handle trick :-) If you really want to hear stiction horror stories, go talk to people who have administrated (big) mainframes and experienced a power outage. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Just because an idea originated at redhat does not mean it is evil. -- Sean 'Shaleh' Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 02:05:16AM -0800, Lukas Latz wrote: Of course, when the shiny happy install doesn't work on some esoteric hardware you're screwed, but nobody runs _that_ stuff. (or do they??) *sigh* About 2 1/2 years ago, I installed Suse on a 1997 Mac clone with a Formac graphics card. Their acclaimed graphical installer (not X though) had trouble dealing with the card, so I had to fall back to the text based installer, which, understandably, they had neglected as nobody uses it. Consequently, the keyboard setup (I had a german mac keyboard) didn't work right. That kind of thing? EXACTLY!!! Sorry for yelling, but this whole debian is hard to install thing drives me crazy. Call me an elite bastard, but I still feel if debian is too hard to install, you shouldn't be installing it. Mandrake et al exist for a reason. On the other hand, if debian is too staid for you, there are gentoo and slackware and the internet for the roll your own types. See, it's like this: as long as you are using linux I think that's great. I really don't care what color linux you are using (just like I don't really care what shell you use or what kind of beer you drink). I may get pissy if you set up some redhat server disaster and then ask me to maintain it, but if the money is there I'll try to manage it :-) I run debian on sparc hardware as well as i386. I've been using i386 since I was in middle school so being expected to know things like how many keys are on the keyboard and what kind of video chipset I have is not a big shock. Apparently this freaks out a lot of people. It's a good thing those people never tried to get cool games running on DOS. The sparc stuff can get exciting; I'm about a year or two into sparc hardware. It has good points and bad points. You can get a lot of cool stuff on ebay, thus my desktop and server (both running linux). Some code still is a bit dodgy on sparc; some of it will never work due to arch-specific problems. I like that debian runs on several different arches; I can log into lorien (my i386 server) or aglarond (my ultra 60) and for the most part, I see no difference (except the ultra 60 kicks more ass). Commands are the same, file locations are the same ... it's a dream: one that no other *nix I've used comes close to matching. Sorry for the rant. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. -- Chinese Proverb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: setting up RAID
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 12:20:55PM +0200, Konstantin Kostadinov wrote: G'day all, I'm setting up a RAID1 set in debian 3r0. I checked /proc/mdstat got the following: Personalities: [raid1] read_ahead not set unused devices: none hmmm, I got RAID support, woopeee I setup a /etc/raidtab file like this: raiddev /dev/md0 raid-level 0 nr-raid-disks 2 nr-spare-disks 0 chunk-size 4 persistant-superblock 1 device /dev/hde1 raid-disk 0 device /dev/hdg1 raid-disk 1 BUT when I run mkraid /dev/md0 I get command not found (sob sob sob, I U must install raidtools2 package ;) ^ you, surely? (sorry, pet peeve). For an alternate path to RAID fun, install the mdadm package and read the man page. Good stuff. I used mdadmto build my RAID over LVM system here; it was pretty hassle free. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I must despise the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -- Ludwig van Beethoven pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Official Exim 4 package
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 07:26:50AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 04:40:41AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:26:38AM -0600, Jamin Collins wrote: No it's not. Version number indicate a progression of an application, they have no indication of major differences between two releases. If version numbers don't describe precisely that, what does? [ snip, etc. ] I have nothing useful to say about this topic, except this: o If you have a brilliant idea to make the packaging system better, write code (or at least a proposal) and submit it to debian-DEVEL. Being a developer will probably get you further than not being one, but I imagine that depends on the quality of your proposal as well. Sorry guys, but this list is for debian USERS and thus I think this thread has outlived its usefulness by several messages. (I do read and enjoy both lists :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a great idea hits you, and just before you realize what's wrong with it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installer - Was: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 10:51:18AM +, Klaus Imgrund wrote: Does anybody if the installer that is used for the 'testing netinstall' images is a sign of things to come.If so I would like to know where I can go and whine about it. I'm not sure about how the testing netinstall relates to d-i; you should hang out on debian-boot for a while if you want to help with the installer (testing the installer and providing feedback counts as help). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Whenever men attempt to suppress argument and free speech, we may be sure that they know their cause to be a bad one. -- R. G. Horton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 07:28:15AM -0800, nate wrote: Nathan E Norman said: Sorry for yelling, but this whole debian is hard to install thing drives me crazy. Call me an elite bastard, but I still feel if debian is too hard to install, you shouldn't be installing it. Mandrake et al exist for a reason. well of course there are always exceptions. Having done probably a hundred or more debian installs over nearly the past 5 years I am fairly proficient(to put it lightly) at installing debian. but still, at least in the realm of supported hardware debian isn't quite up there yet. I do try to build my systems with debian in mind, so the occasion is rare that I have a system that is more difficult to install debian on. the worst such examples were newer(at the time) IBM and toshiba notebooks. the debian CDs wouldn't even boot on them. The system wouldn't see them as bootable cds so wouldn't try. luckily the toshiba had a floppy drive(IBM did not) so I could install on the toshiba. However, SuSE 7.3(at the time) booted installed fine for some reason. I think I was using potato CDs at the time not woody. but once your over the first hurdle of getting the base system installed and booted the rest is cake for me. though it would save some time if the installer could install directly onto a software raid array(raid on root). Out of the box it can't, but you can do it if you're willing to be a little crazy :-) The midhgard link has some pointers. I hear and understand what you are saying about not all installs are easy; been there, done that. However, I never said (or at least, I never meant to say) that installing debian is easy. In fact, I do not care if people think installing debian is hard. What bothers me are people who _think it's hard_ because they have no clue as to what's in their box, and they whine and bitch about it and demand a new better installer that not only works no matter what but has shiny graphics and tetris and other nonsense. IOW, people who refuse to _learn_. ESR is right on about these people. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 03:07:24PM -0800, Marc Wilson wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 10:03:24AM -0800, nate wrote: hopefully this time around there's enough time for them to get it working, though I don't know if we'll see an official X11-based installer for the next revision, I hope that they have the backend and a ncurses-style installer done for the next release. Gods, whyinhell would you need X in order to install a distribution? That's just silly. But it's so _cool_; nifty splash screens and widgets and whatnot make this _look_ like the premiere linux distro. Of course, when the shiny happy install doesn't work on some esoteric hardware you're screwed, but nobody runs _that_ stuff. (or do they??) *sigh* -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 03:30:10PM +1100, Lindsay Yardley wrote: | Marc, the original poster clearly had a problem that went way beyond not | being able to install Debian, but in charity there is no excess. And it | will do no good to make Debian less easy because he was annoying. I've looked after windows boxes for many years, windows users find it quite difficult. Many shudder at the thought of installing anything. Most machines I look at for the first time are in a horribly unstable condition, networks too for that matter. I'm sorry but in my very limited experience with linux i can't see it as any more difficult than windows. The major difference would be that windows hides/ignores conflicts etc, I don't think linux does, does it? In fact, linux forces you to confront problems; this shocks many users who are used to being told oh no, everything's ok as fires rage in the engine room. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This message cannot be considered spam, even though it is. Some law that never was enacted says so. -- Arkadiy Belousov -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 07:26:51PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 07:19:32PM -0800, Kenward Vaughan wrote: I think he showed up late last year, yes? Late last month. I think he posted twice out of a few dozen times that he demonstrated he had a clue. I think his brain's signal to noise ratio is too low for him to even be owning a computer. His sig was, and I quote: Let me meddle not in the affairs of Linuxen For I'm an idiot and will toast my boxen I uh, don't know what else to say ... that speaks volumes :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exhilaration is that feeling you get just after a great idea hits you, and just before you realize what's wrong with it. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: not accepting mail despite proper A-PTR setup
On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 04:54:52PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: I just got a mail delivery error from another MTA: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: host xxx.xx[123.12.123.12] refused to talk to me: 501-HELO requires a valid host name as operand: 'albatross.madduck.net' 501-connection rejected from debian4.unizh.ch remote address [130.60.73.144]. 501-Reason given was: 501- No reverse DNS PTR for the remote address [130.60.73.144] has a 501 hostname matching 'albatross.madduck.net' 130.60.73.144 is my mailout server, which has a PTR record to debian4.unizh.ch, which resolves back to that IP. since this is a virtual setup, the same IP also services albatross.madduck.net. in this case, the HELO name used was albatross.madduck.net, which the other MTA refused. is it just me, or is this overly paranoid, and possibly even wrong? is there any document that specifies that I have to have a PTR record for every A record? my belief is that multiple PTR records have little purpose. am i wrong? Multiple PTR records do not make sense. Every IP address should have a PTR record; there should be a valid A record which corresponds to a PTR record. Additional A records are allowed. These days testing for a valid PTR record and A record combination is rather painful as many people seem to get this wrong. At best it is indicative of clue level at the remote end. If you do it correctly you can make it obvious when someone is using an IP they shouldn't be using; for all your unassigned IPs set the PTR record to an invalid A record (like invalid.isp.net). As far as I can tell, your setup works. I'm not sure why the remote has decided to reject your connection. Perhaps you could configure your MTA to send debian4.unizh.ch as the HELO/EHLO argument? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If man asks for many laws it is only because he is sure that his neighbor needs them; privately he is an unphilosophical anarchist, and thinks laws in his own case superfluous. -- Will Durant pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Where is faq/HOWTO for changing locale?
On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 11:59:35AM -0800, Peter Farley wrote: I need to change my locale from LANG=C to LANG=en_US on debian-390 (woody-3.0r1), running under hercules 390 emulator. Just changing the value of LANG does not seem to do what I expect. In fact, it doesn't seem to do much of anything. Could someone please point me to a faq or HOWTO that tells what packages need to be installed and a step-by-step procedure for changing locale? TIA for any info and RTFM's you can provide. I don't have any FAQ pointers, but have you tried setting LC_ALL=en_US ? I apologise for stating the obvious, but you also have to export the variables once you set them. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What's the big deal about rm, I have been deleting stuff for years? And never lost anything.. oops! A: ... -- Frequently Unasked Questions -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gpg: DSA requires the use of a 160 bit hash algorithm
On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 01:18:40PM +0200, Tapio Lehtonen wrote: I can't anymore sign e-mails using mutt. Error is gpg: DSA requires the use of a 160 bit hash algorithm What to do to fix this? I started getting the error after installing spamassassin from testing to a woody host. I did had a working spamassassin from woody, but upgraded it using the How to keep a mixed system info, i.e. apt-get -t unstable install spamassassin I did install some other packages from testing also. I ran into this some months ago, so my memory is a little foggy. However, I'm 90% sure I fixed it by removing one of the following options from ~/.gpg/options : force-v3-sigs rfc1991 digest-algo md5 load-extension rsa load-extension idea Sorry for being imprecise; I hope this puts you on the right track! -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There's a positive side to non-technical people -- they actually tend to have some grasp of how human psyche works. -- Josip Rodin (on d-devel) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian unofficial repositories w/ Apache 2.0.44/PHP 4.3.1/MySQL 4.0.12
On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 03:48:19AM -0800, Ryan Aligen wrote: Hello, this is my first time on this list. I was just wondering if there are any repositories with these packages or if I will have to compile them manually. Check out http://www.apt-get.org/ . If you don't find what you want, I guess you'll be building you're own packages. BTW, no need to mention this is your first time on the list. We really don't care :-) Most of us just want to answer intelligent questions; see http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro for details. Have fun with debian! _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail *gack* -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not start writing it. -- Edsger Dijkstra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems with Apt-Get
On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 09:40:10AM -0600, Joseph A Nagy Jr wrote: I'm having problems with updating the package list from mirrors.kernel.org (apt-get says connection times out). Is this a known problem or am I just one of the (un)lucky few who this happens to? Here's a partial output from apt-get (the other sites I was able to update the lists just fine) Err ftp://mirrors.kernel.org stable/non-free Packages Could not connect to mirrors.kernel.org:21 (204.152.189.120), connection timed out Err ftp://mirrors.kernel.org stable/non-free Release Could not connect to mirrors.kernel.org:21 (204.152.189.120), connection timed out [ snip more it's broke ] www.kernel.org was broken. It should be back now. Why are you using the ftp method? The http method is more efficient since it uses HTTP 1.1 pipelining. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I must despise the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -- Ludwig van Beethoven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: moving harddives from one system to another
On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 01:49:44AM -0500, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote: On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 08:11:39PM -0600, Hanasaki JiJi wrote: | is it safe to take a harddrive, with data on it, out of one system and | put it in another? Just ensure that 1) the other machine's hardware can handle the disk (naturally :-)) 2) the kernel of the other box supports the filesystem you used on the disk (also quite natural :-)) 3) either the UIDs match, or else you are prepared to deal with wacky file ownerships 2a) The partition table on the disk is supported by the kernel on the other box (e.g. you move a disk from a sparc to hppa). Probably not a big issue for most people :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never tell people how to do things. Tell them WHAT to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Apt: Searching for Provides: ...
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 08:46:31AM +0100, Thomas Guettler wrote: Hi! I want to search for all packages which provide xserver. apt-cache search 'Provides.*xserver.*' This should find xserver-s3, but it doesn't. Any hints? I'm no apt-cache expert, but my reading of the man page suggests that 'apt-cache search' searches package names and the descriptions for the provided regex. Unfortunately, it seems it does not search the full control information for each package (too bad; I like your idea). I'm not aware of a tool that does what you want. When I run apt-cache search 'Provides.*xserver.*' I get ttf-xtt-wadalab-gothic - Free Japanese TrueType fonts (gothic) ttf-xtt-watanabe-mincho - Free Japanese TrueType fonts (mincho) as output; a look at the Description field shows that the word provides and the word xserver do appear (apparently apt-cache does regex searches case-insensitive). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Just because an idea originated at redhat does not mean it is evil. -- Sean 'Shaleh' Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Making PDF document in KWord
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 11:06:47AM +0200, Aryan Ameri wrote: Hi There: When I want to make a PDF document with KWord (Using print menu), KWord is able to make a pdf file, but the result is crappy, many words are not in their original position, and all in all, it is unreadable. However, making PostScript files works fine, but anyway, windoze users can't view PS files. Is there any reason why the resulted PDF files are like this? Any way I can repair this? BTW, I am using KOffice 1.2.1, on KDE 3.1.0 RC 5 I don't use KWord, but I have some experience creating PDF documents using TeX. You can create a PS document with TeX and then convert it to PDF using 'ps2pdf'; the result is usually poor. Perhaps KWord is merely creating a PS document and then converting it using 'ps2pdf'? BTW, using 'texi2pdf' to create a PDF using TeX works really well for me thus far. I don't create really advanced PDFs with hyperlinks and all the extras, I just create PDFs so windows people feel useful. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -- Unattributed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: what's the difference between apache+mod_perl and apache-perl, apache+mod_ssl and apache-ssl etc...
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 12:49:40PM +0200, Haim Ashkenazi wrote: Hi If I understand corectly, apache-perl is staticaly compiled with mod_perl (that is it's the same as installing apache+mod_perl). so how come I can install both? the same with apache-ssl. Am I missing something here? Well, er, installing apache-perl isn't quite the same as installing apache + libapache-mod-perl; as you point out the former is compiled in while the latter links dynamically. Likewise, apache-ssl and apache + libapache-mod-ssl are not the same in that the SSL stuff is compiled in when you run apache-ssl. The apache issue is further complicated in that apache-ssl and libapache-mod-ssl _are not the same code_ ... they are two means to an end. See http://www.apache-ssl.org/#mod_ssl for an explanation. For most people it somes down to personal preference. Personally, I like to install apache + whatever libapache-mod-* packages I want/need. Others like the compiled in version. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quando omni flunkus moritati. -- Possum Lodge Motto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Making PDF document in KWord
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:12:04AM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can create a PS document with TeX and then convert it to PDF using 'ps2pdf'; the result is usually poor. Try making your ps file with dvips -Ppdf file.dvi -o file.ps . That will use outline fonts for Computer Modern, which is probably what the problem is. Uh, _I_ know how to create PDF documents that look just fine; I'm trying to help the OP figure out why KWord creates crappy PDFs but PS documents that look fine. Please read the entire email before replying. You seem to have snipped the OP's problem and the part where I state I have made PDFs that look decent. Perhaps KWord is merely creating a PS document and then converting it using 'ps2pdf'? Last I looked at it, KWord's PS output outputted PostScript Type 3 fonts, which display poorly in Acrobat Reader. I don't know if it still does this, though, I'd need to see a sample PDF from kword to tell. (I don't have it installed.) Clearly this is the problem. Does KWord output TeX files directly? Otherwise, how can the OP solve his problem? [I don't use KWord] -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Warning: dates in calendar are closer than they appear. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Finally - Your Own Low Cost Teleconferencing Service!
On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:32:46PM -0600, Joseph A Nagy Jr wrote: Conference Service wrote: [ snip _entire fdreaking spam message ] Okay, this is just bad, folks. Consider yourself whacked upside the head with a clue-by-four. Reposting spam to any mailing list is at best considered bad form and in some circles is grounds for severe retaliation. Don't do it. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix was not designed to stop people from doing stupid things, because that would also stop them from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MySQL 4
On Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 10:58:23PM -0500, Tom Allison wrote: Brian Nelson wrote: Vineet Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Andrew Pritchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [20030318 15:27 PST]: With the recent release of MySQL 4, I was wondering when (if ever) Debian was going to be incorporating it into at least the 'testing' tree (let alone After two weeks of being in unstable with no RC bugs. Har, if only it was that simple. See: http://www.debian.org/devel/testing for an explanation of what it takes for a package to enter testing. I have to admit, this is a heck of a system. Not necessarily the fastest, but pretty darn smart. Now if only we could get commercial products released on this kind of cycle we might have fewer recalls and cruddy junk! Having worked in the commercial software industry, I can assure you that you don't want to know what kind of criteria for release many software products have. It'd be funny if the software was cheap ... -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This disclaimer is priviledged information and may not be read by anyone except the intended recipient, whoever that is. If you are not the intended recipient and have read this disclaimer, you are naughty and shan't be allowed any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't take your meat? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TELNET
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 11:43:44AM +, Joao Paulo wrote: telnet is also very good (but for other things). telnet host 25 telnet host 21 ... Yuck. Use 'nc' from the netcat package instead. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people. -- Laurence J. Peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Source for 2.2.20 kernel
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 12:47:28AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 10:51:14AM -0600, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote: I'm missing something. What is the name of the source for the 2.2.20 kernel? kernel-source-2.2.20 if it's still actually in the distribution; it's pretty ancient so it may be gone. It's 2003, and Linux 2.6 is right around the corner. Lets kill off 2.2 already. I've had good luck with kernel-source-2.4.20... That's what comes as the default in woody and I want to tweak it. I can find headers, patches (what good are patches w/out source to patch?), ReiserFS and PCMCIA modules, but no source. What gives? It's a two year old revision to a four year old, obsolete kernel version? What kind of support were you expecting when the rest of the world moved on? www.kernel.org has _all_ the linux source ever released. Why not download 2.2.20 from there? BTW, there are machines that don't work with 2.4.x ... just thought I'd let you know :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. -- Plato pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: failing to unsubscribe
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:56:01AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: i never had problems with this before even though i noticed a million people complaining. i would like to unsubscribe from a debian-curiosa. i know for a fact that i am subscribed to debian-curiosa as [EMAIL PROTECTED] thus i do: /usr/sbin/sendmail [EMAIL PROTECTED] EOM From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: unsubscribe EOM and I get back: It has been requested that the following address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] should be deleted from the debian-news mailing list. Sorry, but this address has NOT been found on the list. yet I receive debian-curiosa at exactly that address. Are the list servers just plain broken or just in a bad mood? Sometimes things are a bit spooky. I'm not sure exactly what's wrong but I assume that unsubscribe requests are processed using some form of regex which doesn't always work. For instance, a few months ago I was subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I subscribed to all the debian lists I frequent as [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then sent unsubscribe requests for [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Imagine my surprise when [EMAIL PROTECTED] was unsubscribed instead 9and no, I didn't send the requests from my incanus.net account). Good luck! -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A young man wrote to Mozart and said: Q: Herr Mozart, I am thinking of writing symphonies. Can you give me any suggestions as to how to get started? A: A symphony is a very complex musical form, perhaps you should begin with some simple lieder and work your way up to a symphony. Q: But Herr Mozart, you were writing symphonies when you were 8 years old. A: But I never asked anybody how. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bad Debian (L.A.H.)
On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 06:53:54PM +0100, Carel Fellinger wrote: On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 09:53:08PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote: ... IMO, you can avoid anything printed by Prentice Hall except stuff written by W. Richard Stevens. I think that's ill informed advice. Some of the best books on informatics are from them, like: A discipline of programming, by Edgard Dijkstra Operating Systems, by Tanenbaum Object Oriented Software Construction, by Meyer Maybe in recent years their catalogue has watered down, I don't know, but at least they used to be top notch. Please excuse my hyperbole; perhaps PH has more to offer than Stevens. However, I must say that (again IMO) their recent offerings are not high on _my_ wish list (and I buy a lot of books every year). YMMV. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [SOLVED] Re: fetchmail and SMTP return codes
On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 03:58:05PM +, Jason Chambers wrote: The SMTP protocol is documented RFC821 so you can see how mail servers communicate and what the three digit codes mean. You can then test stuff by telnet localhost 25 which is useful for troubleshooting problems. Please refer to RFC2821 instead. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I retract that silly statement. Somebody slap me. -- Roy Smith pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installing Intel compiler RPMs on Debian
On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 01:34:05AM -0600, Gary Turner wrote: Charlie Zender wrote: Hi, What is the recommended way to install the Intel Fortran and C/C++ compilers on Debian? They come as a set of RPMs. The RPMs do not install on my Debian system, because there are no RPMs installed on my Debian system so it can't find any pre-requisites: error: cannot open Packages index using db3 - No such file or directory (2) I suppose I could try to find where the RPMs want to install their contents, and then try to install them myself manually. This sounds dangerous and error-prone, however. I gather this is a FAQ, what to do when you have an RPM you want to install on a Debian system?, but I could not find the answer. Google on Installing RPMs on Debian HOWTO yields a lot of hits. The key is the package alien. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache show alien Package: alien Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 212 Maintainer: Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] Architecture: all Version: 8.24 Depends: debhelper (= 3), perl (= 5.6.0-16), rpm (= 2.4.4-2), dpkg-dev, make, cpio Suggests: patch, bzip2, lsb-rpm, lintian Filename: pool/main/a/alien/alien_8.24_all.deb Size: 113412 MD5sum: ac232fe4e3ef90229f48c5522e005297 Description: install non-native packages with dpkg Alien allows you to convert LSB, Red Hat, Stampede and Slackware Packages into Debian packages, which can be installed with dpkg. . It can also generate packages of any of the other formats. . This is a tool only suitable for binary packages. HTH FWIW, sometimes it is better IMO to turm RPMs into TGZ format; then you can put the stuff in /opt or /usr/local. I never ever install anything into directories reserved for the packaging system unless it came from a deb created by a debian maintainer, a deb created by someone I trust, or a deb created by me. I do not trust debs created from rpm packages. My 2 cents .. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] We're sysadmins. Sanity happens to other people. -- Chris King -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bad Debian (L.A.H.)
On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 10:08:00AM -0800, Eric G. Miller wrote: On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 06:10:07PM +0100, J. Lambrecht wrote: // I am not on the list so please, reply to all Sigh, and now i now why Debian's not for kids --- From : Linux Administrator Handbook p.35 (Prentice Hall,2002) Debian startup scripts If SuSE is the ultimate example of a well-designed, well-executed plan for the management of startup scripts, Debian is the exact opposite. The Debian scripts are fragile, undocumented, and unbelievably incosistent. Sadly, it appears that the lack of a standard way of setting up scripts has resulted in chaos in this case. Bad Debian! ... Good Luck Apparently the author(s) didn't read /etc/init.d/README? or lookup start-stop-daemon? or updated-rc.d? or read /usr/share/doc/sysvinit/README.runlevels.gz Remind me not to buy that book (I hope incosistent is your misspelling). IMO, you can avoid anything printed by Prentice Hall except stuff written by W. Richard Stevens. There are some oddities in /etc/init.d on debian systems; some maintainbers have, er, interesting ideas about scripting. However, the cool thing about debian is even if the script is FUBAR I can rewrite it and the packaging system won't blow away my changes! Try that on SuSE ... Doesn't anyone remember the horror of the monolithic /etc/rc* files that Slackware had? Thanks Mike for porting over the sysv stuff. It's not perfect but it works. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Profanity is the one language all programmers know best. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: buy or build computer?
On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 01:55:32PM -0500, Peter Christensen wrote: My five-year-old Gateway Pentium 200 MHz died recently. (It won't boot from the hard drive or a rescue disk, and it won't go into bios-setup mode.) I don't think it's fixable, and anyway, it was so slow that it's probably time to replace it. Temporarily I'm using a borrowed computer with Win95. Yuck! For my next computer I want to make sure that everything is compatible with Linux. I searched this list and found a few posts about buying computers. They were a little old (one or two years), so I'm wondering if the situation has changed. A few people recommended the AMD Athlon processor over Pentiums. And Matrox for video, Soundblaster or Ensoniq for sound. Any thoughts on this? I've heard that computers nowadays are built with the cheapest possible components, so I was wondering if building it myself would be a good idea. It might not be much cheaper than buying one from Dell or Gateway, but if the result was a better quality machine it might be worthwhile. So far I've only had to replace broken components in my Gateway, such as the hard drive and CDrom, also added memory. Building a computer would be a challenge, but I think I'd enjoy doing it... Local authorities will be pissed at me, but I can't recommend Gateway. They tend to use a lot of win-only components, the7y cheapest crap they can find. They seem to always have one-off video chipsets that never quite work with XFree86. It's not the company it was back in 1995. My sister bought a Dell; it seemed well constructed. I loved the case and it was _quiet_. After listening to the Sun on my desk scream all day long I wish I had a PC I couldn't hear. Anyway, I tend to build my own systems (or buy old Suns on ebay :-) For most work I think the 30-40% savings on an AMD processor and system board far outweighs the 10-15% speed penalty. Buy all the RAM you can afford. Get a fast drive. I like SCSI because I think IDE is still too hard on the CPU. Others will disagree ... Buy a good case and power supply. Make sure your PS can handle the load. It used to be that a 250W PS was more than enough ... the new Athlons and P4s will drop a 250W PS like a bad habit. 300W is the minimum; I'd go for 400W. Find a _quiet_ case; noisy fans can damage your hearing (ask me; I'll tell you. I've been around loud electronics for about 6 years now, servers and routers, and my ears ring all the time). Get a CD-ROM from a company you've heard of (and if you've heard of Lite-On, don't buy that). It's better to spend 10% more if it'll last twice as long. Buy a decent NIC if you use ethernet; I think people waste too much time trying to get a $13 PCI NIC to work. I've had good luck with ATI video cards, though Matrox is good too. I avoid Nvidia since their good drivers are always non-free. I have a Creative Soundblaster PCI512 that I bought a few years ago; it works great. I find that most of the advanced features of the new soundcards are not supported by the linux drivers; perhaps this is changing. Regarding I/O; I think an IBM keyboard and Logitech's optical USB mouse are absolutely the way to go :-) This is all personal preference of course. Skip buying a floppy unless you really need it; any decent BIOS can boot from a CD-ROM these days. Finally, stay grounded. It sucks to fry your new component because you didn't think about ESD issues when you started. Also, realise that the new ATX power supplies can give you a shock when they are pluuged in even if the system is off; it's not the same as the old AT power supplies where the main power is actually cut. Some ATX power supplies have a real on/off switch on the back to solve this problem. Best of luck, -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What's tiny and yellow and very, very, dangerous? A: A canary with the super-user password. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bad Debian (L.A.H.)
On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 10:19:46PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: Nathan E Norman writes: There are some oddities in /etc/init.d on debian systems; some maintainbers have, er, interesting ideas about scripting. However, the cool thing about debian is even if the script is FUBAR I can rewrite it and the packaging system won't blow away my changes! And file a bug with a patch, I hope. I usually get beat to the real bugs. The rest are just oddities; for instance I hated the old DHCP startup scripts and rolled my own. I can't think of other examples off the top of my head but I know I've hacked a lot of init scripts. Your advice to file bugs is good, and I'm often guilty of ignoring it. mea culpa. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] See, if you were allowed to keep the money, you wouldn't create jobs with it. You'd throw it in the bushes or something. But the government will spend it, thereby creating jobs. -- Dave Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: resetting a network card
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 09:53:26AM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 06 March 2003 10:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is that the network card, after lots of data (about 4GB) - either in receive or in transmit, stops responding correctly. So I want to somehow reset in order to see if this will solve my problem. # ifdown eth0; rmmod eepro100; ifup eth0 (As you can see it is not a cheap network card but I have seen the same problem to RTL network cards) Sorry, coming late to this thread. I just answered this question in another too. Under a heavy load the eepro100 driver tends to drop out on the network. The eepro100 tends to complain about 'out of network resources' frequently under load and sometimes drops out. To fix reset the networking I put a cron '/etc/init.d/networking restart' script in place to work around the problem. Restarting would reset the network for us after a dropout. We changed to the Intel e100 driver direct from the Intel site and the problem went away. That driver (well, the source code for it) is available in non-free as e100-source. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Dumb question: How do you reboot?
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 09:15:26AM -0500, Bob Paige wrote: Nathan E Norman wrote: [ No technical content, just a funny story ] At a prior job, we had a bunch of servers in a datacenter. Some of the datacenter people liked to play with the keyboard; one of them was convinced that the only server OS in the whole world was Windows NT. He liked to try to log into Windows NT servers (some of the servers that were running NT had easy passwords, I guess). One day this fellow discovered MY servers. The console screen didn't dissuade him; he just hit ctrl-alt-del to get a login screen. Sigh. Unscheduled downtime. Shortly afterward, /etc/inittab had this entry: ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/bin/echo Nice try, dumbass And yes, the datacenter guy eventually disappeared. Isn't this a good example of why _not_ to have ctrl-alt-del reboot the system? In a non-physically secure environment, yes! However, it has utility for desktop folks. It wasn't that big a deal to make the change, and in fact I was embarrassed it was a problem in the first place. Of course, you still have the problem of power switches, power cords ... what happens if someone unloads a double barrel 10 guage into the rack, etc. If you can't trust the people working in your datacenter ... Anyway, this is drifting off topic :-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] THEY planted The Lone Gunmen to MIND CONTROL the public into seeing TRUTH SEEKERS as CONSPIRACY NUTS. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kernel compile for dhcpd
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 05:35:55PM -0800, Curtis Vaughan wrote: [ Please don't top post, it makes your post hard to read and easier to ignore ] Hubert Chan states that I can just take my old config file and copy to the new tree. I assume you mean to copy it to where I am compiling the kernel. But in which folder exactly and I assume this is prior to running make-kpkg -config=menuconfig kernel-image Yeah. When you're in your kernel source directory, say /usr/local/src/linux-2.4.20, just do cp /boot/config-2.4.18 .config and then run make menuconfig or the make-kpkg command you show. BTW, I always provide a --version argument to make-kpg as well. YMMV. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Just because an idea originated at redhat does not mean it is evil. -- Sean 'Shaleh' Perry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Orinocco Silver and wep encryption.
On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 01:20:10AM -0500, Mark Roach wrote: On Fri, 2003-03-07 at 11:33, Martin Fluch wrote: Hi! I try to get the WEP encryption (sure, it is not secure but better than nothing) on my wireless card (Orinocco Silver) to work at home. No problem to use it under Windows, but it doesn't work with Linux. Not to get too offtopic here, but my view on this is that it's better to treat a wep encrypted link as if there were no encryption on it, so to keep myself from being lazy and trusting wep, I have just turned it off. Most protocols are capable of using encryption these days and otherwise you can set up a vpn (or ssh port forwarding) quite easily. I guess I would rather have a proper sense of insecurity than a false sense of security. Anyone with me on that or am I just goofy? I can see it both ways. On the one hand, broken security is no security at all (I believe this is what you are arguing). Therefore setting up said security is a waste of time. On the other hand, I could say I'm not going to put a lock on the door of this garage because people can pick locks. I'll just put in a screen door with a spring to keep it closed. Here I am less secure than if I had implemented the broken security. Now, my approach to 802.11: I ran it for a while. Partly because I have a cheap prism card and partly because my (old) laptop acts up a lot I have decommissioned my 802.11; I knew it wasn't very secure even with WEP but I gambled that no-one in my neighborhood was smart enough to (ab)use my 802.11. If and when I set it up again, I'd like to use IPSEC, and hopefully better hardware ;-) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There's a positive side to non-technical people -- they actually tend to have some grasp of how human psyche works. -- Josip Rodin (on d-devel) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patched sendmail? testing?
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 06:50:40AM -0500, stan wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 02:44:41PM -0800, Vineet Kumar wrote: * stan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [20030304 13:11 PST]: My point is that the testing release ahs proven to be stable in a production environemnt (for me at least), and has, for example, much more current perl modules, than stable. This is required for our software to work. Okay, so even if you've never used apt's pinning features (apt_preferences(5)), I find it hard to believe you've never heard of CPAN. I have, and I use it to update my HP-UX machines. I;m able to use FreeBSD's ports system to update those machines. I prefer to keep everything on the Debian machines handled by Debians excelent package management sytem. I have found thta when I go outside this mechanisim, I pay for it in the long run. apt-get install dh-make-perl, RTFM. Enjoy. PS: ispell is a spell checker. Use 'i' to call it from mutt. Your frequent spelling errors (to me) make your emails appear even more frenetic than you presumably intend them to be. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] What's needed is a certification system that separates those who can barely regurgitate what they crammed over the last few weeks from those who command secret ninja networking powers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Patched sendmail? testing?
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 07:58:37AM -0500, stan wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 06:04:49PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 04:11:02PM -0500, stan wrote: Well, then shouldn't it allow stable to be released often enough that it acn be used in production For instance how old are the prel modules, and devlopment environment in it? Ancinet by modern standards. Heh... I never can quite figure out why people keep asserting that stable is too old for production systems. My servers are all running either woody (the current stable) or potato (the old stable (Oh my god! The software is three years old!)). Desktops are mostly RedHat 6 or so, with some potato, a very little woody, or X terminals connected to a potato server. I have yet to receive a single complaint from any of my users about the software being too old. While I can accept that there are some people who need the latest whiz-bang software to do their work, the vast majority of us don't. You may have made my point for me :-) Is the reason that you have RedHat dekstops to have more modern Gnome or KDE packages? Redhat 6 has the latest whiz-bang Gnome and KDE, or did you just forget to read? -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people. -- Laurence J. Peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sendmail security flaw fix
On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 11:43:22PM -0500, Mike M wrote: I've been looking for the Debian response to the recently found sendmail flaw and corresponding fix (http://www.sendmail.org). Can someone point me to where I can find this information? You are subscribed to debian-security-announce, right? You're not?? Almost everyone running debian should subscribe to d-s-a (in fact I can't imagine why anyone shouldn't). -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. -- Chinese Proverb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dumb question: How do you reboot?
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 12:36:16PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 08:37:29PM -0800, Leo Spalteholz wrote: CTRL+ALT+DEL is more equivalent to shutdown -r now than holding the power button.. To be precise, under a default debian config, C-A-D is equivalent to `/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now`, per /etc/inittab. [ No technical content, just a funny story ] At a prior job, we had a bunch of servers in a datacenter. Some of the datacenter people liked to play with the keyboard; one of them was convinced that the only server OS in the whole world was Windows NT. He liked to try to log into Windows NT servers (some of the servers that were running NT had easy passwords, I guess). One day this fellow discovered MY servers. The console screen didn't dissuade him; he just hit ctrl-alt-del to get a login screen. Sigh. Unscheduled downtime. Shortly afterward, /etc/inittab had this entry: ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/bin/echo Nice try, dumbass And yes, the datacenter guy eventually disappeared. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You can have Peace, or you can have Freedom. Don't ever count on having both at the same time. -- Robert A. Heinlein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: kernel: lp0 on fire ????
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 05:20:09PM +1100, John Griffiths wrote: Yes, you are using a retarded email client and inserting this huge disclaimer bullshit which is all one one line. You asked for that one :-) Wow, you're in a charming mood today dude. I see your mailer does not respect Mail-Followup-To: ... apparently it strips emoticons as well? Note for the terminally clueless: IT WAS A JOKE. THE POST IT REPLIED TO WAS A JOKE. HUMOR CAN BE FUN; TRY IT OUT. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Avoid gunfire in the bathroom tonight. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: KNOPPIX and it configure.
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 08:22:12AM +0200, Egor Tur wrote: Hi folk. I want to use KNOPPIX for create my LaTex documents. But I can not reconfigure LaTex distributive because files of tetex are on CD. Can I do this. (Now I need reconfigure hyphenations). Thanx. Note: I've never used knoppix. LaTeX will read files in /usr/local/lib/texmf (and I think you can create a texmf directory in your $HOME as well). I presume knoppix has the ability to mount _some_ parts of the filesystem read-write? a read-only $HOME seems like a waste of time. If you have the ability to create a writable /usr/local, do that and have fun. -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] See, if you were allowed to keep the money, you wouldn't create jobs with it. You'd throw it in the bushes or something. But the government will spend it, thereby creating jobs. -- Dave Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
