Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
From: Lars Hallberg Micro++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do You think of a Wrapper Class Libary that makes it easy to write code that runns on diferent widget sets? It's a good idea. There are a number of ways to go about it. One is to take the documented Qt interface and implement it on top of a number of widget sets. In fact, since they have already implemented it on some, we could just start with the others and be perceived as adding value to Qt and programs that use it such as KDE. Another way to do it is to go with another, already free, toolkit. I'd suggest wxWindows for this (do a web search on wxWindows, and someone just contributed a wxWindows-on-X package to Debian). There is an existing wxWindows implementation for curses, but it is back several revisions from the current wxWindows version. The disadvantage is that you'd have to write wxWindows desktop tools rather than use the existing KDE ones. Rather than use curses, try s-lang and its terminal support. It's smaller and simpler. Thanks Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
From: Lars Hallberg Micro++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do You think of a Wrapper Class Libary that makes it easy to write code that runns on diferent widget sets? Don't forget OI (there was an interface builder based on it that was free-of-cost for linux, a while back, but I forget the name.) OI let you switch between an OpenLook and Motif lookfeel [in fact you could switch at runtime, which was kind of scary] though it was a fairly sophisticated C++ toolkit. Though originally commercial I thought I'd heard it had been freed; in any case, it's another source of ideas...
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
Mark Eichin wrote: From: Lars Hallberg Micro++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do You think of a Wrapper Class Libary that makes it easy to write code that runns on diferent widget sets? Don't forget OI (there was an interface builder based on it that was free-of-cost for linux, a while back, but I forget the name.) OI let you switch between an OpenLook and Motif lookfeel [in fact you could switch at runtime, which was kind of scary] though it was a fairly sophisticated C++ toolkit. Though originally commercial I thought I'd heard it had been freed; in any case, it's another source of ideas... Well, this is very old (Sep 1994), but here's the reply that I got from the OI people 2.5 years ago when I asked if there would be another free OI replease for Linux. Also, I'm sure it was binary only, no source. --- snip --- Hello Rick - You're correct, the version of OI currently available for Linux is 4.0 (ObjectBuilder 2.0). We don't have a definite timeframe for porting OI4.5/ObjectBuilder2.5 to Linux, outside factors are affecting this. A new libc is in the works, as well as a new g++ compiler and libX11, our release will be dependent on these. Note that g++2.5.8 cannot compile OI, so we can't put out an interim release. -kathy[EMAIL PROTECTED]+1 303-440-9991 800-933-5558 dial 2 for support --- snip --- -- ...RickM...
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: Would anyone be interested in working on a GPL-ed clone of Qt? This would make KDE entirely free. I'd like to hear sentiment on this before I take any more steps. I think this is a good idea, but I don't see it gaining a whole lot of momentum anytime soon. The Qt license is somewhat restrictive, but not badly enough so where people are going to get gung ho about this. I would like to hear some thoughts on the complexity of cloning Qt. It seems like it would be a lot easier than say.. the Lesstif project. I've compiled some programs with Qt, but I have stayed away from the Qt source code in case there ever was a project like this that I would want to contribute to. Also, some thoughts on how much of a moving target Qt is would be nice to hear. :) I think I understand where Bruce is coming from on this. I'm extremely thrilled about the KDE project. Linux has needed something unifying like this for a long time. It does concern me that one company has a lot of control over what looks like it will become the de facto library for creating graphical interfaces under Linux. -douglas
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
Someone suggested that if we cloned Qt, we should do it using the Lesstif widget set rather than the one that Qt is presently using, and this might be an improvement on the present Qt. I have one person who has expressed interest in working on this so far. This is far from critical mass. But then, I've only asked on two Debian lists a few hours ago. There is GnuSTEP, too. If there wasn't, I think we'd have more interest in a really-free Qt. Thanks Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: Someone suggested that if we cloned Qt, we should do it using the Lesstif widget set rather than the one that Qt is presently using, and this might be an improvement on the present Qt. I've tested parts of KDE and it looks a lot better than any Motif product I've ever seen. (this from someone who has been a huge fan of the Motif interface for a long time) It's a lot better looking than say.. the CDE. There is GnuSTEP, too. If there wasn't, I think we'd have more interest in a really-free Qt. I expect a 1.0 release of GNUstep to take about the same amount of time to appear as the Hurd takes to reach 1.0. I really don't think people are looking for a whole new language and such. A consistent user interface is what they're really interesteed in. :) -douglas
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
Lars Hallberg Micro++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: |On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Douglas L Stewart wrote: | |What do You think of a Wrapper Class Libary that makes it easy to write |code that runns on diferent widget sets? If it makes it posably to chose Great idea. But I think I've allready seen something which claims to do this. (Something with Vx in its name??, I was never attracted to GUI building so never used it). Just because it IS such a great and obvious idea, I'd recommand you to dig well into the net before you start inventing the wheel. I'll try to dig it for you myself when I get time tommorow. Good luck! Cheers, --Amos --Amos Shapira| Of course Australia was marked for 133 Shlomo Ben-Yosef st. | glory, for its people had been chosen Jerusalem 93 805 | by the finest judges in England. ISRAEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Anonymous
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
Okay, people I'm up to this challenge. -- basic funktions (inputfield, menus etc) could also be available on textterminals (thru curses, termcap, slang ...). That makes it a perfect choice fore system tools... Anyone intrested? We culd start out whit two platforms, (eg curses and Tcl/Tk) and create the basic stuff. An accepted standard along these lines would help tremendously. One of the biggest drawbacks of some other distributions is the need to have X running to use many of the config and admin tools. Suppose you want to setup an old machine with a 386, 8mb ram, and 100 mb disk? I can do this with Debian because X is not needed. The goal should be that 3 of my 6 brothers (who aren't listening) could easily do the same. They might know how to use ae, but they don't know the first thing about what's in /etc. Rather than totally reinvent the wheel, perhaps one of the gurus could give me a starting point: Step 1 Using Perl, I want to select the correct user interface for command-line, ncurses, X, or WWW invocation. I want to check for an argument that will force to command-line in case the user has problems(like he doesn't yet know his TERM type). Then I will invoke wrapper functions which will use the correct user interface. Step 2 I will write a simple useradmin menu with a few choices such as configuring ~/.bash* stuff on it. EDITOR and PAGER are a good start. Step 3 I will make it work with pretty color, arrow keys, and such toys. Step 4 I will add mouse support. Step 5 True X version (not xterm) Step 6 WWW - install Apache. Using a local or remote browser, perform the same task. It should be designed to work with most browsers including lynx. If this was done properly, you could then write programs such as netconfig which would even work with an old printing teletype.I still remember writing and using such programs. When you typed ? for help, it printed a list of options. It wasn't elegant, but it got the mission accomplished! I even had progress meters that printed a line at appropriate intervals. Control-c input would print a confirmation prompt. This needs to be implemented in such a way that the basic functionality is available in the absence of libraries/support for the higher level user interfaces. A limited dselect tool would be a good example - it would work on any tty and allow spacebar paging for long lists. You could use it to install the support needed for a higher-level user interface. I chose Perl as a starting point. That doesn't mean I would't build an equivalent C version (or maybe the Perl compiler will be ready soon). Paul Wade - Greenbush Technologies Corporation http://www.greenbush.com/cds.html Linux CD's sent worldwide
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
On Apr 2, Bruce Perens wrote Someone suggested that if we cloned Qt, we should do it using the Lesstif widget set rather than the one that Qt is presently using, and this might be an improvement on the present Qt. You might also want to take a look at development versions of the gimp, the free photoshop-like program. It comes under the GPL and has a widget set written from scratch which replaces the previous Motif implementation. -- Bart Schuller [EMAIL PROTECTED] At Lunalabs, where the Lunatech Research http://www.lunatech.com/ future is made today.. Partner of The Perl Institute http://www.perl.org/Linux http://www.li.org/
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Douglas L Stewart wrote: What do You think of a Wrapper Class Libary that makes it easy to write code that runns on diferent widget sets? If it makes it posably to chose real interface runtime it be real cool. One app, run it in KDE, xform, MooTiff, Athena widget set, Tcl/tk, thin Java clients ... whatever. The basic funktions (inputfield, menus etc) could also be available on textterminals (thru curses, termcap, slang ...). That makes it a perfect choice fore system tools... Anyone intrested? We culd start out whit two platforms, (eg curses and Tcl/Tk) and create the basic stuff. I am intrested in this. I can set up a Webpage and manage a mailinglist (not to big). This may have commersial intresst. AFAIK we can have it GPL:ed and att the same time sell licenses for comersial use. Will limit us some on witch library to use, they must be GLPL, not GPL... On Wed, 2 Apr 1997, Bruce Perens wrote: Someone suggested that if we cloned Qt, we should do it using the Lesstif widget set rather than the one that Qt is presently using, and this might be an improvement on the present Qt. I've tested parts of KDE and it looks a lot better than any Motif product I've ever seen. (this from someone who has been a huge fan of the Motif interface for a long time) It's a lot better looking than say.. the CDE. There is GnuSTEP, too. If there wasn't, I think we'd have more interest in a really-free Qt. I expect a 1.0 release of GNUstep to take about the same amount of time to appear as the Hurd takes to reach 1.0. I really don't think people are looking for a whole new language and such. A consistent user interface is what they're really interesteed in. :) -douglas / / _/_ _/_ Välkommen till Micro++ Lars Hallberg /\_/\ / /WWW-hemsida [EMAIL PROTECTED] / Micro++http://www.micropp.se/ http://www.micropp.se/lah/
A Qt alternative for KDE?
Would anyone be interested in working on a GPL-ed clone of Qt? This would make KDE entirely free. I'd like to hear sentiment on this before I take any more steps. Thanks Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3
Re: A Qt alternative for KDE?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: Would anyone be interested in working on a GPL-ed clone of Qt? This would make KDE entirely free. I'd like to hear sentiment on this before I take any more steps. Bruce, are you sure you aren't asking about Yet Another Widget Set Project(tm)? Dimitri mailto:emaziuk at curtin.edu.au and don't forget to relace at with @ --- The views expressed above (hereafter, views) are mine and ownership remains with me. They are provided as is without expressed or implied warranty of any kind, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of the suitability of the views for any purpose.
