Re: Need help in X Windows installation
At 08:50 AM 12/12/97 +0100, Sten Anderson wrote: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whoops, this should have gone to the list too. -- Forwarded message -- On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Hamish Moffatt wrote: [ I said: ] It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. Doesn't a /bin/sh stick around if you don't use exec? Or did that change at some point? I think I put exec in my .xsession before the windowmanager when I first installed debian (buzz) to make the /bin/sh go away, and it's been there ever since. Yes, by using exec to launch a command from a script, the process associated with the script (/bin/sh) is replaced by the process associated with the command. This saves a few system resources, since the script process is not laying sleeping in the background for no purpose. The program pstree is an excellent tool to see the effect of this. However, the improvement of performance by this is barely measurable. I am simply arguing that while it is generally a good idea to uses exec, it is not that important, and certainly not required. In fact it might give you some unexpected effects, if exec is used on anything else than the last command in a script. The last line of my .xinitrc file 'exec's a window manager without the ampersand and so far, I have installed all window managers and by far they all worked except for olvwm. Any other suggestions? Thanks, Bryan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
On 12 Dec 1997, Sten Anderson wrote: Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, by using exec to launch a command from a script, the process associated with the script (/bin/sh) is replaced by the process associated with the command. This saves a few system resources, since the script process is not laying sleeping in the background for no purpose. The program pstree is an excellent tool to see the effect of this. However, the improvement of performance by this is barely measurable. I am simply arguing that while it is generally a good idea to uses exec, it is not that important, and certainly not required. In fact it might give you some unexpected effects, if exec is used on anything else than the last command in a script. But using exec is and has been the default way of starting the window manager for years, so I don't think there is a real reason to change it. Look at the last lines of /etc/X11/Xsession on any Debian system: -cut-here- if [ -x $startup ] grep -q ^allow-user-xsession /etc/X11/config then exec $startup else xterm -ls if [ -e /etc/X11/window-managers ] then for i in `sed 's/#.*//' /etc/X11/window-managers` do if [ -x $i ] then exec $i fi done fi if [ -x /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm ] then exec fvwm fi exec twm fi -cut-here- BTW, $startup is set to $HOME/.xsession earlier in the script. What this does, is: 1. exec $HOME/.xsession , if it exists and is executable and is allowed to be executed by the sysadmin. This means that the rest of this script is not executed, just like you would expect. You do not want to exit your `own' windows manager only to see the system-default window manager being started. 2. If $HOME/.xsession does not exist, it first starts an xterm in the background. 3. Then it checks /etc/X11/window-managers for a valid window manager. If that exists, it is exec'ed and that is the last thing this script does. 4. If that fails, it first tries if an executable /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm exists. If it does, it is exec'ed and that is the last thing this script does. 5. If all the above have failed, twm is exec'ed without any test, as it is in the same package (xbase) as this script and is most probably properly configured (properly meaning that it runs without severe errors). Again, that is the last thing this script does. The above scheme of finding a window manager to launch _depends_ on the behaviour of the `exec' command. In this case, it really is needed to keep the script being readable. Remco -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
whoops, this should have gone to the list too. -- Forwarded message -- On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Hamish Moffatt wrote: It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. Doesn't a /bin/sh stick around if you don't use exec? Or did that change at some point? I think I put exec in my .xsession before the windowmanager when I first installed debian (buzz) to make the /bin/sh go away, and it's been there ever since. TL -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Tommy Lakofski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whoops, this should have gone to the list too. -- Forwarded message -- On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Hamish Moffatt wrote: [ I said: ] It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. Doesn't a /bin/sh stick around if you don't use exec? Or did that change at some point? I think I put exec in my .xsession before the windowmanager when I first installed debian (buzz) to make the /bin/sh go away, and it's been there ever since. Yes, by using exec to launch a command from a script, the process associated with the script (/bin/sh) is replaced by the process associated with the command. This saves a few system resources, since the script process is not laying sleeping in the background for no purpose. The program pstree is an excellent tool to see the effect of this. However, the improvement of performance by this is barely measurable. I am simply arguing that while it is generally a good idea to uses exec, it is not that important, and certainly not required. In fact it might give you some unexpected effects, if exec is used on anything else than the last command in a script. - Sten Anderson -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
At 09:15 AM 12/10/97 -0600, Jens B. Jorgensen wrote: These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. Yes, my last command was an 'exec' which I used to load olvwm. Regarding the extensions, are these options I can choose from dselect? Bryan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
At 04:32 PM 12/10/97 +0100, Sten Anderson wrote: Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. Well, that's right. All the commands in my .xinitrc script end in except for the one loading the window manager. Thanks. Bryan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 05:51:40AM +0800, Bryan Barcelo wrote: At 04:32 PM 12/10/97 +0100, Sten Anderson wrote: Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. Well, that's right. All the commands in my .xinitrc script end in except for the one loading the window manager. Thanks. The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd have to kill the clock somehow to logout. hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd have to kill the clock somehow to logout. Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Daniel Martin at cush wrote (Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500 ): |Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last | command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window | manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd | have to kill the clock somehow to logout. | |Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X |clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. | I don't think this is right...I've fiddled a lot with window managers, and I switch them ``mid-flight'' quite a bit. (Since I have an xterm as the final exec'd command, killing my window manager doesn't end my x session.) If what you're saying is true, every time I switch window managers, all my windows would die, effectively ending the session. Needless to say, this doesn't happen. -alan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Alan Su [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Martin at cush wrote (Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500 ): |Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last | command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window | manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd | have to kill the clock somehow to logout. | |Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X |clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. | I don't think this is right...I've fiddled a lot with window managers, and I switch them ``mid-flight'' quite a bit. (Since I have an xterm as the final exec'd command, killing my window manager doesn't end my x session.) If what you're saying is true, every time I switch window managers, all my windows would die, effectively ending the session. Needless to say, this doesn't happen. It depends entirely of the window manager. WindowMaker, for example, has two exit options: exit... and exit session This way it is optional whether all X clients should be killed or not. It is correct that if you kill a window manager manually (kill pid), it should not kill other X clients (except perhaps it children). - Sten Anderson -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Alan Su [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Daniel Martin at cush wrote (Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500 ): | |Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X |clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. | I don't think this is right...I've fiddled a lot with window managers, and I switch them ``mid-flight'' quite a bit. (Since I have an xterm as the final exec'd command, killing my window manager doesn't end my x session.) If what you're saying is true, every time I switch window managers, all my windows would die, effectively ending the session. Needless to say, this doesn't happen. Ok - I was too wuick with my use of most. I got used to this way of doing things from olvwm, which does behave this way. (But I've just checked and, indeed, fvwm2 does not) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 08:00:30PM -0800, Alan Su wrote: Daniel Martin at cush wrote (Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500 ): |Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last | command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window | manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd | have to kill the clock somehow to logout. | |Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X |clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. I don't think this is right...I've fiddled a lot with window managers, and I switch them ``mid-flight'' quite a bit. (Since I have an xterm as the final exec'd command, killing my window manager doesn't end my x session.) If what you're saying is true, every time I switch window managers, all my windows would die, effectively ending the session. Needless to say, this doesn't happen. The window manager will replace itself with the new one, (using an exec() call, presumably). So the same command in your .xsession/.xinitrc is still running. hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Hamish Moffatt wrote (Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:36:55 +1100 ): |On Wed, Dec 10, 1997 at 08:00:30PM -0800, Alan Su wrote: | Daniel Martin at cush wrote (Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:34:52 -0500 ): | |Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | | | The window manager should always be last too. Specifically, the last | | command should not end in , but it's most useful if that's the window | | manager. You could make it xclock or something, but then you'd | | have to kill the clock somehow to logout. | | | |Depends - most window managers will send a message to all active X | |clients when they exit that causes them to shut down. | | I don't think this is right...I've fiddled a lot with window managers, | and I switch them ``mid-flight'' quite a bit. (Since I have an xterm | as the final exec'd command, killing my window manager doesn't end my | x session.) If what you're saying is true, every time I switch window | managers, all my windows would die, effectively ending the session. | Needless to say, this doesn't happen. | |The window manager will replace itself with the new one, |(using an exec() call, presumably). So the same command in |your .xsession/.xinitrc is still running. | This is only true if you use the window manager facility to restart. I usually kill the window manager with (kill pid), temporarily leaving me window manager-less. Then, I start another window manager from a shell I have open. I suppose I could configure my window manager to exec a different window manager, but that's too much effort. or i'm too lazy. (probably the latter.) -alan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Sten Anderson wrote (10 Dec 1997 16:32:12 +0100 ): |Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't | installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, | are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just | running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. | |It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In |fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that |is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of |'s. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT |the window manager. | Is there something wrong with using exec on an xterm, rather than a window manager? I'm currently doing that which makes the duration of an x session depend on the xterm rather than the window manager (which is what I prefer), and I haven't run into any problems. Am I doing something inherently bad? -alan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Alan Su [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there something wrong with using exec on an xterm, rather than a window manager? I'm currently doing that which makes the duration of an x session depend on the xterm rather than the window manager (which is what I prefer), and I haven't run into any problems. Am I doing something inherently bad? No, there is nothing wrong with that. It is a very common setup, and especially useful if the window manager is unstable. - Sten Anderson -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Alan Su wrote: Sten Anderson wrote (10 Dec 1997 16:32:12 +0100 ): |Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't | installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, | are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just | running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. | |It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In |fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that |is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of |'s. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT |the window manager. | Is there something wrong with using exec on an xterm, rather than a window manager? I'm currently doing that which makes the duration of an x session depend on the xterm rather than the window manager (which is what I prefer), and I haven't run into any problems. Am I doing something inherently bad? No, Sten is just putting a fine point on the discussion: that you don't *have* to 'exec' the last command (ie. you can alternately just run it without '' as long as the program won't exit before you're done with X). -- Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Hi Paul, Sorry to bother you again, but I found the file you said and checked it out and it seemed okay. I also made changes to the .xinitrc file in my subdirectory. It worked for fvwm2 but when I replaced fvwm2 with olvwm, xwindows loads up to the light blue background and then shuts down totally with the last 2 messages reading: PEX extension module not loaded XIE extension module not loaded Any idea how to solve this problem? Thanks in advance, Bryan At 08:25 AM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote: Hello Bryan,yes there is a file that has the windows manager information. It also tells what order to start them in. But you can only have one running at a time. Here is mine, it is in /etc/X11/windows-managers # This file contains a list of available window managers. The default # Xsession file will start the first window manager that it can # in this list. /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm2 /usr/local/bin/enlightenment -theme /usr/local/enlightenment/themes/dreamworks /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm95-2 /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm /usr/X11R6/bin/twm #-- afterstep begin /usr/X11R6/bin/afterstep #-- afterstep end I hope this helps. If you have any more questions then email me. Paul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Bryan Barcelo wrote: Hi Paul, Sorry to bother you again, but I found the file you said and checked it out and it seemed okay. I also made changes to the .xinitrc file in my subdirectory. It worked for fvwm2 but when I replaced fvwm2 with olvwm, xwindows loads up to the light blue background and then shuts down totally with the last 2 messages reading: PEX extension module not loaded XIE extension module not loaded These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. -- Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. - Sten Anderson -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Sten Anderson wrote: Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: These messages do not indicate a fatal error, only that you haven't installed these X extensions. If you're using your own .xinitrc, are you sure that the last command uses 'exec' rather than just running a program? This would cause the X server to immediately exit. It is NOT necessary for the last command to be started with exec. In fact, exec should only be used on the window manager, and only if that is the last command in .xinitrc. The problem is more likely the use of 's. Every program started in .xinitrc should have appended EXCEPT the window manager. That's true. But let's clarify this then. The last command in the .xinitrc file *cannot* exit before the X server is supposed to exit. This can be achieved by either o running the last command with 'exec' (IMO more efficient since it doesn't leave a sleeping process around which doesn't need to be there) o run the last program without putting it in the background (and don't run a program which runs quickly and then exits, e.g. xsetroot) -- Jens B. Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Need help in X Windows installation
Hi! I'm having problems running X Windows after installing it. There's no default window manager after running 'startx' at the command prompt even if I specified one during the installation, so I have to type whatever window manager I want to use at the console after it starts up. Does anyone know what files should contain what lines? Any help will be highly appreciated. Bryan Barcelo EarthGate Information Services, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Need help in X Windows installation
Hello Bryan,yes there is a file that has the windows manager information. It also tells what order to start them in. But you can only have one running at a time. Here is mine, it is in /etc/X11/windows-managers # This file contains a list of available window managers. The default # Xsession file will start the first window manager that it can # in this list. /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm2 /usr/local/bin/enlightenment -theme /usr/local/enlightenment/themes/dreamworks /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm95-2 /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm /usr/X11R6/bin/twm #-- afterstep begin /usr/X11R6/bin/afterstep #-- afterstep end I hope this helps. If you have any more questions then email me. Paul On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Bryan Barcelo wrote: Hi! I'm having problems running X Windows after installing it. There's no default window manager after running 'startx' at the command prompt even if I specified one during the installation, so I have to type whatever window manager I want to use at the console after it starts up. Does anyone know what files should contain what lines? Any help will be highly appreciated. Bryan Barcelo EarthGate Information Services, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
